Do you really need a Cloudlifter or FetHead? (ft. Shure SM7B)
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2019
- In this video I explain in which situations you might need a Cloudlifter or FetHead.
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Хобби
The FetHead Phatom (which passes on phantom power) is deliberately neglected it in this video as you don't need an in-line preamp with a condenser mic. With a condenser microphone the mic is mostly the limiting factor in terms of noise performance. So, even though a FetHead Phantom reduces the preamp noise, when you use it with a condenser mic it has next to no effect on the noise floor of the recording.
My englisch is not the yelloe from the egg
It's it possible to use both cloud lifter and fethead??
@@_Falco_peregrin_ For the same mic at the same time? No you cannot, and you wouldn't even want to. Both devices require 48V phantom power but wont pass it on, so the second device will not work. Even if it did, you'd had 52dB extra gain which is totally overkill and unnecessary when going into any microphone preamp input.
@@semilumi 👍
@@semilumi wait, if both need phantom power, then you can put the fethead phantom before putting a cloudlifter in the chain, therefor the fethead supplies phantom power to the cloudlifter. But this isnt very smart to do because this would raise the gain by around 50 db, making the recording way too hot
Julian my mans, I really need you to start blinking more often :)
Lol I’ve never seen anyone go over 30 seconds without blinking
@@BlueNovaBeats i think he does some of his explaining in separate recordings, i noticed it at around 1:41
I'm pretty sure Germans just use eye drops, no use closing your eyes while you're working.
lol
😂😂😂😂
this guy doesn't blink!!!
Gee. You are right 😳
Oh, yes! He blinks when you do!
holy shit
Lau Bjerno 😂😂
True that..
"CloudHead or FetLifter".
Yeah, I heard that 😎
Same hahaha
It’s stressing me out. He’s a helpful genius tho
Yeah, me too! :))
He did this three times and the last time was obviously a joke. He's transcending the comparison videos by saying they're basically the same thing and it doesn't matter, but more importantly you need to decide whether you need it at all.
CloudFet LifterHead
I was thinking about this for a while. Makes perfectly sense.
You have helped lift the cloud of confusion on the question. Excellent video.
I didn't even throw a fet when I found out
Julian, thank you for this very thorough, and well-executed video. You definitely brought up some very valid points, and it was great to see (and hear) these side by side comparisons in action.
Wonderful and very helpful video Julian! Thanks for all your great and honest reviews and videos. You have really helped me in getting the practical and theoretical knowledge on so many subjects around home studio & recording! Thanks! :) Pls keep doin these great videos!
This was an excellent video! This is the first intelligent explanation that I have heard. Now I finally understand why I get such low levels from my SM7B into my Zoom H6. The sales girl at Guitar Center told me I might want to consider a fethead or cloudlifter, but I ignored her advice. I will be going back to the store soon. Thank you, Julian!
in the world of microcontent and constant rush for quick results, this is a gem. Thank you Julian!
This video is great. All the info I needed summed up in one really great explanation. Thanks for this! You helped me a lot here! :)
Great stuff. I've been getting into audio recording lately, and I've noticed the same thing: Every time the SM7B is mentioned the immediate chorus is that you MUST get a FetLifter. I was planning on making a video with my thoughts on subject and had it planned when I saw this video go up. Your video is almost exactly what I was planning. You do such a good job explaining the point, i changed up my video plan a bit and just linked to yours in the description. I hope that's ok with you. I just figured there was no point in making almost the exact same video, and probably not even doing as good a job as you did. Cheers.
I liked your video very much and it was fully in line with what I expected. Thanks for the shout-out!!!
Logic! Thank you! Every time I heard 'boost without increasing the noise floor' my snake-oil alert was going off. Thanks for making this clear
This is an EXTREMELY helpful video! Thankyou
Very useful. I use a Dynamite inline preamp with my passive ribbon mics because my preamp doesn't have quite enough gain for quiet acoustic guitar recording. It's the kind that plugs directly into the microphone, and is also useful for ensuring that I never accidentally have phantom power going to the mic.
A video about facts that’s really nice. The microphone part was an eye opening experience thank you.
Excellent video. The demonstrations and listening comparisons of the device in realtime along with the explanations for how and why they work is a very lucid. The flowchart is kinda cool too. I thought I understood the basics but after watching I feel much better informed.
Best video about this topic out there, life saver!🙏🏽
Clear and concise, thank you. I've just purchased a Scarlett 4i4 to go along with my Shure SM7B as my RC505 was struggling. Appreciated kindly sir.
awesome explanation and chart. subscribing to your channel, great stuff!
i'm enjoying soo much your channel, please keep it going!
6:55 "Cloudhead or Fetlifter"😂
8:06 " Cloudfet LifterHead"😂
MisthaufenGmbH ahahahahHa
Stealing those for band names in the future
I bet he's making sure we're paying attention. Looks like we were!
Now I realize this is intentional. What a legend!
I learned so much with this video! Thank you so much, your explanations are veyr logic, clear and useful.
I appreciate your review Julian, cheers!
Because you talk about numbers, your video is easier to learn than Chris Judd's one. Thank u.
Very interesting, thanks Julian!
Very helpful, and very well presented. You are a remarkably articulate presenter, especially assuming that English is your second language. Thank you!
Julian speaks English better than a LOT of native speakers 😮
Spot on advice with excellent examples. Thanks 🌹
Love your videos! Very informative.
Thanks, man! This was a tremendous aid!
such a great video. straight to the point and very informative
Thank god for RUclips! How in the world would've have known all this without this platform, people really take youtube for granted these days! Great tutorial Julian, danke!
Julian, very nice video. Congrats.
Excellent explanation Julian, thanks.
This was an amazingly informative video. I loved how you explained all the technical aspects and demystified what we really need to look for when considering gain boosters. Subscribed.
Also, I have a few questions.
How do you properly adjust your gain on your zoom H5 for your microphones? That is, what dB should my peaks hover around?
Second, how do I find/calculate the noise floor (EIN) for my own recording device? I use the Zoom H6.
Hey, I set my gain in the H5, so that the audio level peaks on average between -18 and -12 dBFS. The H6 has the same Preamp noise performance as the H5. The measurement is not so trivial and needs specialized test equipment.
@@JulianKrause Thank you!
Thanks for the information, not many videos clarify whether a Cloudlifter or FetHead is needed.
Great video Julian, thank you!
I really appreciated the analtical delivery. Thanks man..
This video was scientific and funny. Great work. :)
Hello, I have Rode Procaster + Umc22 Audio interface. When i was recording my sound, i have background noise from my pc fans. What should i do? Should i buy new audio interface or audio mixer or fethead? I think i should buy a fethead but
i am waiting for your advice. Have a nice day!
You cannot solve an *acoustic* problem like that. You will have to physically rearrange the microphone, PC and yourself so that the PC is positioned away from the mic's preferred direction and/or further away (with the opposite for yourself), and/or make the PC quieter, and/or use sound absorbing materials.
Move the microphone closer to your mouth and turn down the gain.
@@PileOfEmptyTapes Thank you :)
@@TTVCoderGaming Thank you i will try :)
I found your comment on two videos and now I'm in your notification box with my twin.
Das war wirklich das beste Video um zu verstehen was es mit diesen Teilen überhaupt auf sich hat. Ich hatte vorher NICHTS kapiert. Danke!
thank u man! love your content!
I like your videos. Quality staff!
excellent as always
This was super useful, thank you so much!
Great video, thanks for the tips man.
Great videos as always.
Awesome video mate, thank you
I use an AKG D5 with a Zoom H5 for voice recording. The microphone sits on a Samson 20cm desk stand and has a foam muffler fitted. I speak over the microphone which is angled at 45 degrees from a distance of about 20-30cm.
The AKG D5 has a quoted sensitivity of -52dBV re. 1V/Pa (2.6mv/Pa) which, I believe, puts it somewhere near the Behringer XM5800 in terms of noise performance. I record to peak levels between -12dB and -6dB (with a level adjustment of about 6.5 - 7) and find the noise level to be acceptable.
incredibly useful video. liked and subbed.
Sooo pro straight to the point thank you so much !!!!
Great review, thank you very much!
Thanks Julian, helpful and comprehensive!
Glad it helped and thanks for the support!
Great Video! You helped me a lot
Your awesome sauce brother. Thank heaven your not into 'R'n'D' developing the newest hi tech weapon...lol. We need more of people like you...Down to earth and truthful. BTW, I'm not buying either after I order a new mic tomorrow. You got to love marketing...N.O.T. Keep the great work up...
Very well explained and wise conclusions. Thank you!
Wow. You just saved me some bucks man! Thanks. I bought a Shure SM7b and I have a Yamaha MG10XUF mixer. The Yamaha has great and super quiet D-Preamps with 64dbs. After watching your video I checked the preamp's noise rating which is at -128. So now I know I won't benefit from the SE Dynamite booster. I borrowed one from a friend, just to confirm, and it was actually a louder hiss than the mixers pre-amp. I don't even need to max out the preamp gain on the Yamaha to get to zero. Thank you so much for this. EVERY other person immediately tells you to get a cloudlifter/booster with the SM7b.
Hi, and thanks for this. I'd appreciate your view on three things. (1) Moving closer to a dynamic mic affects the frequency response ("proximity effect") as well as the signal strength. Thus the solution of moving closer might not work on all situations - especially when a singer wants to use the proximity effect at times but move away at other times to avoid it. (2) In live situations where the mic cable might have to be very long, use of one of these devices might also be helpful. (3) For a low-output instrument pickup going direct, use of one of these devices at the output of a direct box might be very helpful, especially if a long cable run is involved.
1. Yes, the closer you get to a directional microphone the more proximity effect you are going to have. But you can counter that with an equalizer. Of course, if a talent is using a mic you just have to hope that they have a decent mic technique and don't hold the mic miles away from their mouth.
2. The Cloudlifter and FetHead are actually have a high output impedance which makes the signal susceptible to noise. Additionally, the cable capacitance in combination with the high impedance form a low pass filter. This means that on longer cable runs you lose the higher frequencies. So, even though a Cloudlifter or a FetHead increases the signal amplitude, it is not a good idea to run a long cable between them and the recording device.
3. Same as stated above. I would keep a Cloudlifter or FetHead as close to the recording device as possible.
The SE Electronics DM1 on the other hand is purposely built to have a low output impedance. This device will increase the signal strength and has a low output impedance. The DM1 is preferably placed as close to the sound source as possible.
@@JulianKrause Hi, Thanks!
I’m excited that he used the same mics I use; XM8500! I have 3 of them. Low price, excellent sound!
Awesome video dude! This was really helpful. I just got an H4n Pro and am making videos with an SM7B in a studio where it’s not in frame (and thus a few feet away from me). The preamps are totally ruining the audio quality, been searching around all night trying to find the answer. Thanks for making it really clear!
Thanks Julian for a very helpful demo and explanation for this SM7B owner. I appreciate your clear, logical approach. Excuse me now while I go find a jet engine to interview!
Don't get to close, jet engines can be quite aggressive ;)
Another very informative video. On a different note, that 8500 held up remarkably well against the SM7B - I think I preferred it!
Yeah, that thing has a crazy high price to perfromance ratio.
I own 3 of the 8500. Low price and excellent quality.
Thanks mate, great video
Thank you. I'm getting a Shure SM7b soon. I have a Scarlett Solo. I'm going to be recording screamed vocals (on a different account) and was worried about needing an in-line preamp. Your video tells me I shouldn't need one. I will save the money and just get the mic first. If I find I do need an in-line preamp, I will buy it at a later date. First time here. Great video. Liked and subbed!
The preamp in the Scarlett Solo is already pretty good and if you record screamed vocals it is very unlikely that you need an in-line preamp. And you're right, you can still buy one later if you think you need it. Thanks for the sub!
If you use SS alone it might need. I added a dbx 286s so i don't need. The thing i dislike about the SS is the quality of its preamp. It seems noisy as you turn it up. The pre amp on dbx 286s is much better. I would say we probably need it. The noise % would be very little but in this noise war, every % won seem to be favorable.
You might want to try an sm58 as well. It's a little less gain hungry than the sm7b and still sounds pretty damn good.
I have both mics and a Scarlett solo and 2i2.
I rarely need to boost the 58 and when I record Vocals I use them both because both flavors sound really good together.
So ya, I'd say start out with the 58 because it's easy to use in many different situations as is. Without a mic activator the 7b will only be good for screaming.
“Interview with a jet engine.” 😂
Excellent video. Thank you.
Have you ever had an interview with a jet engine? Haha. I loved that joke.
Only once, but it was just yelling at me ;)
@@JulianKrause hahaha
Very useful videos!!!
Good video, solid logic although it only deals with noise issues. There are other reasons to consider a mic booster, following your first 3 points:
4. Live Work. Working with a low output dynamic can mean you're working at a low level overall. If you need to drive an aux or an effect whose performance depends on drive, a mic booster comes in very handy. You CAN daisy-chain channels but the output noise of many mixers is relatively high (around -100dBu) so you need to boost at least 40dB at the first stage, preferably higher. And you're creating a confusing situation.
5. ENG / Run and Gun. You'll be wanting to print straight to camera for minimal editing.
6. Long and / or interferency cables. All mic boosters give a hotter signal to mitigate interference - wherever it comes from. And some drive cables better than a simple dynamic mic, so you don't lose top end due to the capacitance of long cables.
7. Distributed Gain. Many (most?) mic preamps exhibit more distortion at higher gains. So, running a booster at +30 and a pre at +30 could well give you a cleaner signal than the pre alone at +60. Split the work.
So it's not that you NEED a mic booster but for some situations, they're the obvious practical solution.
And in a lot of situations, a booster isn't the answer but a decent condensor mic instead of the fashionable SM7B ;)
Good points! Regarding point 6 I have to add something. The output impedance of a FetHead is very high, this means that when you want to use a long cable you shouldn't put the FetHead on the mic. Yes, it does output a stronger signal than the mic itself but because of the high ouptput impedance you loose much more of the high frequencies. So, if you use a long cable run it is actually better to have the mic, with its low output impedance, drive the long cable and the FetHead should be placed right before the receiving device.
I have a Presonus Studio 26c and a Shure SM7B mic. In this case. I need a Cloudlifter. Thanks for the great vid and info!
Question answered immediately thank you!
I had too much hiss with my sm7b with my apogee duet. I got a cloudlifter and still had hiss. It just amplified the hiss. Since then, I stick with condenser mics. But really liked how the sm7b sounded in a full fledged studio. That's why I bought it.
Hey really nice video ! But I have one more question, if I understood it right, the Shure SM7B directly plugged into the Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD which is plugged to my PC to record, wouldn't need a Cloudlifter because the noise lvl is at -129 dB ?
Correct ;)
Hello Julian! Thanks for creating videos with great technical details....I have few questions....
1. Some of the good preamps are... Focusrite 2i2, MixPre3, Audient id4 and Dbx 286s
2, Dbx: -125dBu, 22Hz-22kHz, 150Ω source impedance
3 Audient; ein
That's I looked for. Exactly my setup. Thx
Answering all the questions like reading my mind, this is too funny. Definitely a major concern on anyone's mind buying an SM7B. And damn that SM7B sounds awesome...
My years of telepathy training are finally paying off!!! 😆
@metal571 I see you again 😂
Fantastic video. Very clear. Thank you for producing it and for sharing all of this information with us!
Thanks Julian! :)
Great video. And I'm shocked how slight the difference was between the sound of SM7B and XM8500.
Hi Julian, I like how you changed the names of the mic activators at 6:51 to Cloudhead and Fetlifter :) -- I don't think most viewers noticed the change.
Hi. Thanks. How do you find out the Equivalent Input Noise (EIN) of a recording device? I have just ordered the Saramonic SR-BRM1 inline XLR recorder, before watching this excellent video of yours.
Saramonic in their specs say that one can choose/select between -12dBu to +33dBu.
I also suspect that using a Triton Audio FetHead means one can reduce the input level?
Holy shit that "three" at 1:03, Inglourious Basterds flashback!
Really Informative
Great video, I think way too many people buy these devices that don’t need them just because of what I call “groupthink” or stuff that you hear on forums or around the water cooler.
That being said, there was one aspect that you left out that should be considered when looking at an in-line preamp as a solution. That is the case of in live sound if you are running an extremely long line of several hundred feet or more and a mic level signal is inappropriate or you are just having noise issues from other closely coupled lines for example.
If you were to install something like a fethead or cloudlifter in line very close to the source, it can boost the signal up a lot closer to line level which will give you a lot more noise immunity and therefore allow you to retain a lot more signal at the other end of the line greatly improving your S/N ratio.
We would often times use multichannel versions of something like these to boost signal on long runs across a venue where you might have a microphone hanging from a ceiling for ambient crowd noise and the cable up there might be over 1000 feet back to the booth.
Great video, thank you!
I'm using the Shure SM57+A81WS with the UMC204HD for vocals and at full gain, my voice only creates peaks of about -14dB (I like to get close and speak low for voiceovers).
So according to this video buying a Fethead will be the same as boosting my recordings digitally (even though Fethead will allow me to set the gain lower on the Behringer) since both the Fethead and the Behringer have pretty much the same EIN?
For getting lower noise, my only options are: 1. get a mic with a higher sensitivity so I can get decent levels with lower gain (and thus lower self-noise) from the preamps/interface OR
2. get a different interface with higher gain output?
So confusing...
Great video, thanks! I'm using the Shure SM7B with a Focusrite Forte, which has a reported noise EIN of -128dBu. Would you still recommend a Cloudlifter or FetHead in my case?
thank you. When i heavily compress my vocals there is a huge noise floor with the sm7b. You answered a question i had perfectly. I need a Fethead
Straight to the point thanks now I have time to leave a comment for once
Hi, so instead of cloud lifter can i just buy Apogee ONE interface for my EV RE20 mic?
Thank you. Very informative
I'm using a Focusritre Saffire Pro 24dsp and I can confirm that to get a decent level, the preamp has to be turned all the way to 10, and it's super noisy at that point. I am now considering upgrading to a better audio interface, but my thinking is that most audio interfaces aren't going to sound great at high gain, so a FetHead or a Cloudlifter makes sense.
If you need more gain for your dynamic microphone and were thinking about buying a cloudlifter as a solution then you could also consider buying a
DBX 286s which has a high gain pre-amp (+60dB) and a very low self-noise and save money at the same time. Also, you can now enhance the sound of your signal at the same time. The only advance with a cloudlifter would be with a field setup in combination with a dynamic microphone.
It could also be really good for live setups in weird places with bad boards xD
Audient id4 + cloudlifter = $520AUD
DBX286s = $339AUD
dbx 286s many only last a couple years or so from reviews. Cloudlifters on the other hand last decades, and you never hear about ppl having issues 6-7-8 years later.
@@IPIRIEY My guess is if they are only lasting a few years, they are using bad capacitors.
Thanks, this was useful info
dude, thanks for this video.. very helpful. Quick question, is it possible to do a review of M-Audio Air series?
Great video, love your voice and accent, really easy to listen to. Thanks for the video!
6:55 "cloudhead or fet-lifter"
8:05 "cloud-fet-lifter-head"
Hilarious 😂😂
Please answer quickly. I have Shure MV7 and it has some noise, so the sound is low. Will it help in this case TritonAudio FetHead Filter
?
great video. thx.
Julian, again, excellent video, I have a question, could you make a video about the differences between an analog mixer with usb output and an audio interface in terms of noise? Thanks for all the material, you have helped me a lot.
It's called LiftClouder!
*Shouted in German accent*