It’s its interesting that Jordan Peterson himself said that Catholicism is a sane as you can get because of how in line it is with reality. He then broke down in the same video with tears the amount of weight believing in Christ carries. I pray for conversion. His wife already started saying the rosary!
@@rubenmartinez4346 if you had read Jung's Red Book, you would understand his reservations. Jung is a neo gnostic and you can consider him the prince of the Masonic devils.
As someone who is Catholic and a fan of Jordan I think I can speak on behalf of many people and say that the reason we listen to him is because of his psychological insights (given his profession) and his metaphorical interpretation of many things including scripture for example. We as Catholics know that when we listen to Jordan we aren’t expecting any substance in theology or apologetics. When I listen to him speak about theology I retain what I find useful and compatible with my beliefs and I reject anything I find problematic.
I love Peterson but I love Christ more and yes I only retain that which is valuable for this Catholic and I too listen to many channels as I want to know what my fellow siblings are saying.
God did use Jordan Peterson in a way to help bring me back to my faith, and I do greatly like Jordan Peterson. However, once one converts or reverts to Christianity, Jordan Peterson really does lose quite a bit of intrigue, in my opinion. Peterson argues fervently and extremely eloquently for the importance of religious belief, the narrative meaning of Christianity and the necessity to embrace suffering willingly. However, after awhile, you have to ask if any of this really matters if Christianity isn't true? Ultimately I find that Peterson does a good job at arguing why religion is needed by the human mind and the positive effects of belief, but as a Christian we know that if there isn't sufficient reason to believe that Jesus is God, our faith is in vain and we are just clinging to a man made, mythical tradition. A lot of his scripture commentaries are interesting, but are pure psychologizing of the text, which in my opinion CAN step in the way of authentic faith. But let me reiterate, I really like his work.
Well said. Jordan Peterson ended his magnum opus Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief (which was published in 1999-well before his rise in fame) with a dream he had (pages 460-461) of him unwillingly being lifted up and “trapped in a chandelier” high above a dome with people below him very angry at him, he didn’t want to be there but as he tried escaping a wind swept him back up in the chandelier, all he wanted was to “go home” and then he found himself in a small windowless room in the center of his house that was a furnace but the wind kept sweeping him up towards the chandelier, when he awoke he claims he had a vision of giant gothic double doors facing him, and he was terrified. This dream itself is a metaphor of what is actually happening to Dr. Peterson today-and it has manifested as his own myth and history meeting ontologically in reality, the very thing he cannot yet bring himself to believe in Christ. Believers can call this the Holy Spirit at work, and the double doors are facing him....which door will he choose for all to witness? Be blessed on your journey, fellow truth seekers.
@@johnnytass2111 wow, I didnt know about that story... I love Jordan Peterson, he helped me to come back to my Faith and I pray he one day may surrender to God entirelly... He surely is in an amazing journey right before our eyes...
@@johnnytass2111 thanks for mentioning that. I've always been interested in Map of Meaning, but have never read it. I do think unfortunately Dr. Peterson has been negatively impacted by his extensive study and career in Human Psychology. Psychologists, Historians, and those involved in the hard science tend to be atheist, not because any of these fields are in conflict with supernatural faith, but they deal very specifically with making the extraordinary, ordinary and the unknown, known. Their work "demystifies". For those who become embodied in their work, this thinking begins to plague the brain with the need to overly rationalize everything, and instead of contemplating the wonderous mysteries of the unknown, everything is knowable and boring. This is why I believe Jordan is so concerned with suffering, because he has said it himself, life has only proximal meaning if God does not exist. This means if he does not have faith, he submits, maybe even unwillingly, to the fact that their may be NO ultimate meaning to life, which as we can all understand puts quite a damper on ones life. You can see the struggle within himself to accept Christ through his years of conditioning himself through work as a rational materialist.
@@williamswenson3970 Well said again, Mr Swenson. Maps of Meaning is a difficult read, at least it was for me. But very interesting. I actually read it before his serious medical and health issues that put him in a coma for two weeks. I remembered the dream he wrote about to close the book, which was a huge endeavor. When I went back to read how he described his dream experience I was struck at how it succintly encapsulated his life trajectory, and this was about 20 years prior to his recent life events. He is being called to Christ, and his journey is hampered for the very reasons you described. I think he must feel deep down that if he "misses the mark," the whole point of his rise in recognition and inspiration to so many would be ultimately meaningless for his own self.
JBP was my Moses. Led me out of my Egypt-of-Agnosticism and helped me cross the Jordan into the Catholic faith (no small task: i grew up Dutch-reformed, anti-Catholic). But like Moses he still seems stuck on the wrong side of the Jordan River. I will always thank God for using him to bring me into the fold
It seems to me that Jordan Peterson actually treats the belief in God very seriously. He doesn't want to believe in a "lukewarm" manner. He states that if one truly believes that it would be terrifying. And he's right. All of a sudden life becomes a high stakes game that is beyond comprehension.
Still, he's unwilling to believe. He has to take that next step. He's obviously in the camp of the notion of the Christian God, which gives him only two basic choices, Catholicism or Protestantism (I choose to believe in Catholicism, hook, line and sinker). Which leads to only one conclusion. WE GOTTA PRAY LIKE CRAZY FOR THIS GUY!!!
@@stephencuskley5251 Don't forget the Orthodoxy which has Dostoyevsky whom Peterson admires. I too hope that if he does decide to believe that Christ is who he claimed to be that he chooses Catholicism.
It really does change someone's life, including mine, to realize that there is a God who is always with me, and has the ability to judge and observe everything that I do. It makes me feel that any freedom I have is also, by default, an accountable responsibility. Denying God eliminates this sense of responsibility. This is an area where I think Peterson and Christians intersect well. After all, if no one is watching you, no one is judging you, and no one has power or authority over your life; this means you are meaningless, totally alone and free from responsibility at the same time. Faith has saved me from this awful trap, and I think Peterson appreciates this.
@@stephencuskley5251 The two basic choices are Catholicism and Orthodoxy. A wise guy like him wouldn't even think about Protestantism. He also talks a lot with Catholics (like Bishop Barron) and Orthodox (like Jonathan Pageau) so I'm sure he will never be Protestant.
@@einarabelc5 Study the history of Catholicism from Catholic sources, not anti-Catholic ones. Scripture is an important part of history, but so are Tradition and the Magisterium.
Jordan Peterson is who and what reignited my faith. So much so that there was a period of time where I admittedly idolized him. Without Peterson I would not be a defender of the Catholic faith. Without Peterson I don’t find Barron, Trent Horn, Matt Fradd, Etc.
Yes, it is important to make sure we don't replace God with these speakers. This can even happen with Barron, Trent, and Matt, especially if our faith is strengthened through their works.
@@OrthoLou I guess that, despite all the explaining he did about that one video on "Dare We Hope", there are still some people who accuse him of being heterodox. Though he has brought many to the Catholic faith, and has some really insightful commentaries and presentations.
I grew up Catholic and became an atheist in high school and in the last year, bc of JP, I’ve realized the importance for rejecting the nihilistic and hedonistic thinking of our culture today. In pursuit of seeking virtue I ended up turning back to my faith. I’m hoping to learn plenty and become a well rounded and educated Catholic again.
Christianity is still reeling from the shock of no longer being the dominant framework by which society interprets ideas, so arguments starting from the foundation of 'Cuz God said its bad', lose a lot of punch. Which is where Peterson shines. By communicating these Christian values through a psycho-social and philosophical lens, before tying it back to the metaphysical. Christians need to re-learn these skills if we want to communicate the Word to the coming generation
Reminds me of a certain distinction in Franciscan and Dominican thought. Franciscans would have you believe something is good because God made it so; Dominicans (and I mean mostly St. Thomas Aquinas) think on the other hand that something good is inherently good. Not willing to bash Fransiscans, just an observation. You're right though; there has to be something more substantial if we want to convert the world.
I don't think it is or should be final form of it. Not relying on "cuse god said so" is a step in right direction, but unfortunately JP is pretty well known for pretty shoddy philosophy which has silly consequences like the fact that his understanding of it is absolutely limited to Jung, not to mention his famous postmodern neomarxism. Not surprising - he's an ex-psychologist, not someone with experience in philosophy. The reason why he's shoddy even in terms of psychology is because he appears to be mostly basing himself on evolutionary psychology, and which were pointed out by people like Cass Eris. It might be becuse science is not a suitable horse for lifting normative statements in general, let alone entire sets of beliefs like Jordy's conservatism or religion, especially if you're a person caught lying on social issues like C-16, like Jordy was. For the sake of your religion I hope that you will learn from his approach but won't consider him the best you can come up with.
I agree with this comment for sure. If there is not a strong foundation, it is not possible(or wise) to build upon it. The way people understand and perceive God will determine whether they accept His teaching or not, whether they can even understand what they are, and for what reason.
Jordan Peterson has spread the Christian message to more young people then then entire Catholic Church within the last decade. The Catholic Church has become woke.
He has true ideas that are universal anyone seeking truth can come to similar ideas. He speaks them aloud on a large platform. We should all pray for him and for his family, especially his daughter. She is on a path as well.
Jordan Peterson was instrumental in my reversion to the Catholic faith. That being said, he shouldn’t be judged according to the standards of orthodox theology because I don’t think that’s what he’s ever claimed to espouse.
But imagine what a tremendous force he would become if he became a Catholic. LET'S ALL PRAY FOR HIS CONVERSION!!! Saint Monica was just one woman who prayed for her son's conversion. If we ALL pray for JP's conversion, I think that like Saint Monica, we'd get another St. Augustine!
Jordan Peterson is a beckoning voice who has reluctantly invited people to climb the stairs leading to God. But the very reason that he was heard by nonbelievers is that he was himself on the lower parts of the stairway. God does use mysterious ways to accomplish his ultimate divine plan. May God bless Jordan Peterson and his family.
Ok Trent new mission , you and Jimmy need to have Jordan Peterson on a show and convert this man to be Catholic! We could use a power house like him as well. Although thinking about it he is a great door way to Christian philosophy. He gets people thinking 🤔 , so in itself he helps the start of one's journey to conversion. Maybe that's really God's plan for him :)
If not for coming across JBP in Sep 2016 I would not be becoming Catholic in 2021. God showed me grace regardless and maybe I would have gotten over the line regardless but JBP was a big part of my journey to Christianity early on.
the problem with Peterson is that he's attached to Nietzsche and Jung, while he's attached to these modern thinkers, he won't be able to convert sincererly. But I thank him for showing that religion and specially the bible can be explained in a rational manner, before him I never thought about that. And the Church can learn some things from him for sure.
For a philosopher to declare "God is dead" as Nietzsche did, and have this resonate with others, shows a great challenge to the Church and to faith itself. I would like to think that this type of challenging force gave the Church the opportunity to see it for what it is and fight against it, thus proving "God is alive." But then again, if there has been too much of a movement away from the Church, it is a lost battle. Maybe it is an argument for the "Living Word" regardless of how many people are hearing it at any given time. This may connect with Peterson's ability to speak the truth, even when unpopular.
In the past few years when I have heard him speak of a personal religious belief, I sense a deep internal conflict. Maybe on a CS Lewis level when Tolkien and Chesterton were both debating with him about the Church and he was resisting on an intellectual level. I think Lewis partly illustrates his struggle in the Great Divorce where the protagonist runs into a group of intellectuals who would rather debate the possibility and complexity and seeming paradox of God rather than just move forward and receive Truth. To me it seems that accepting the Truth, God become Man and sacrificed for our sins, is terrifying to him, so he is maintaining a safe intellectual distance which is becoming more difficult for him to manage. I remember the tears in his eyes and the anguish in his voice when speaking of the Crucifixion, Death and Resurrection, and he said “What do you even do with that? What do you DO with that?!” As if the thought of such a perfect act of love and redemption was too beautiful to contemplate and was terrifying in that if you accept it, you owe everything you are to Christ. Like jumping of a cliff. I pray for him that he comes to the understanding that while it is terrifying in our weaknesses to be loved in such an overwhelming manner and to know we can never deserve it, there eso much joy in accepting the humility of our complete dependence on God and standing at his altar with our worldwide family as often as possible.
I think the answer is a resounding NO because he's not a Christian as far as I know. He just likes the psychological effect Christianity has on the mind.
Ancient philosophers weren't Christian either. Should we dismiss them? Does the fact he's not a Christian automatically mean he's not wise and hasn't got some potentially interesting things to say?
THANK YOU for seeing what he is! He talks about the psychology around Catholicism or Orthodoxy (like Catholic confession or bearing your cross like an Orthodox) but he'll never say "oh yeah when I went to confession" or "ya when I went to Orthodox service". After all this hype, he's never converted. And Christians don't see that and think he is one.
I LOVE my fellow Canadian , Jordan Peterson. I just had him read his book to me ... 😁 .....12 Rules . It was awesome and now I want to listen to Maps of Meaning
Jordan Peterson and his biblical lectures brought lots of people to God. He also helped me to come back to the Church ❤️ I was baptized but was raised in atheist, anti-Catholic family and he reconciled me with the Holy Church .
Jordan Peterson has been instrumental in giving a new perspective and strength to the practical side of my faith. The only criticism people can lay against him is he is focused on the psychological side and has not affirmed and doubts the literal truths of theology. That taken with a grain of salt, i think he should be mandatory listening for Christians along side any bible study.
Jordan Peterson expresses so well the enormity of what it means to claim to be Christian. He reminds us that we have to be willing to empty our SELVES in order to truly follow Jesus. I think we can easily slip away from understanding the depth of what is required, and Peterson, as an “outsider”(?), is overwhelmed by it.
One of the most interesting things Peterson did was tieing faith directly to actions. By defining faith as "Not simply saying that you believe, but acting in your life as if you knew that would you believe is real", he kinda bridged between Catholics and Protestant on Eschatology.
I'd like you Trent to do an episode talking about the "hallucinogenic origins of Christianity" that's a somewhat popular position and I've seen in the Christian world just Paul VanderKlay address this kinds of arguments, keep the good work brother 🔝 ¡Viva Cristo Rey!
Oh Trent, this was a real test for me clicking on this video. I have such admiration for Jordan that if you came out like some Protestant folks have and gave quick dismissal I would’ve been very disappointed. I agree that he doesn’t have the fullness of truth, but his material has been so revelatory to me that’s it’s been very worth while. I appreciate your professionalism as always and I was pleasantly surprised and interested in your guest’s thoughts. Keep it up!
I don't like Jordan Peterson because he presents his highly subjective opinions as "archetypal" truths of humanity. He's literally just interpreting the Bible stories (and all of human history!) through the lens of his own personality (ESTJ and Enneagram One). He misunderstands and misrepresents philosophical thinkers. (I majored in philosophy.). His thinking is so sloppy that it's hard for me to listen to. I can't stand his hypocrisy. There's more reasons, but if people like him for the self-help stuff, there are many, many self-help authors to get insight from without all the crap that JP interjects into it.
I’ve listened to some of Peterson’s lectures and interviews, but don’t follow him too much. Although during the last round of public attacks I bought a few “Hail Lobster” stickers for support 😅 However, I follow other people who mention how much their views have changed due to Peterson and followers do as well. In the basic sense, Peterson puts to words what’s common to Christian ideas and frames them in a way the more skeptical can digest. While it would be richer to place Catholic philosophers like Thomas Aquinas before people, the years of dividing faith and reason can be a struggle for some people to accept. Since Peterson comes at it from a different angle, religious skeptics are more open to his ideas. I think he’s but a stepping stone for some people. Some will fixate themselves on Peterson, others will grow from there. So long as it gets people thinking and desiring Truth, I think Peterson is a decent start.
To quote the great late-90s philosopher Daria Morgendorffer: “The truth and a lie are not kinda sorta the same thing.” I don’t follow Peterson super closely but he does zoom out enough to equivocate between many of the cultural myths.
Hey Trent, can you talk about the RUclipsr Polite Leader? He's recent video is about an actor from the chosen ( tho it's irrelevant who the person is but most importantly..) that he venerates a dead saint ( Padre Pio)
@Thomas Hosker Ofc And that's not the problem Cuz I went ahead and watched the video and he's basically saying that catholic are worshipping the saints and Mary as well which is sad cuz we actually don't! And the fact that there are so many comments bad mouthing us Catholics
@@LavleenJeena The word "worship" is an English word that didn't exist for centuries after the time of Christ. For most non-Catholics, it only means one thing. They can't (or refuse to) understand the difference between dulia, hyperdulia, and latria.
Many of JP’s insights aren’t new if you are already a thoughtful Catholic who has done some reading of the Church Fathers and Church Teaching. However, that is not to discount the journey he is on, and the fact he is making the journey based on his prodigious mental capacity.
Imagine what a tremendous force JP would become if he converted to Catholicism. Saint Monica prayed for her son's conversion, and look what we got... St. Augustine! Let's ALL pray for JP's conversion.
I’m not a Christian, but why would you listen to Jordan Peterson when there’s literally thousands of years worth of better material you could engage with? Theologians, philosophers, writers, etc. before and since Christ have way more intelligent and insightful things to say. Heck, if you want to learn about archetypal psychology, why not even go straight to Jung instead of Peterson’s discount version? Our time on Earth is limited, so we should spend our time carefully and seriously, especially in matters of the intellect/soul.
I think the power of Jordan is that 1) he introduces you were to look and 2) repackages this ancient or common sense wisdon rather than have an original profound idea of his own.
@@vtorious9102 yes that's an ok place to start but afterwards shouldn't his fans go to the source of these ideas? I'm just confused because people seem to not go any further, even though they really care about these topics.
I've seen a number of testimonies from anti-theists who become Christian because of him. And I'd say he's one of the influences that has ultimately led me to from Protestantism to Catholicism, despite his sometimes strange theology. He certainly made me think more deeply. Also he focused on hell in a credible, convincing, convicting way when the Church largely abandoned talking about it. He was effective.
Personally I'm not a fan. I don't know what it is, but I suspect it was the fact I had a strong relationship with my father while he was alive. A lot of guys my age who like him make him into a parasocial father figure & it's creepy.
Jordan Peterson has incredible courage and always tells the truth. He strongly supports traditional marriage and personal responsibility. He walks the walk and doesn’t just talk the talk. Totally inspiring to this Catholic convert
Jordan led me back to my Catholic faith. I think he's done this for many people by making a powerful, logical and reasoned argument for the validity of the Judeo/Christian foundation of Western Civilization. Previously I think most people felt that to be religious was to be "simple" and "illogical", Jordan clearly proved this is not true.
Listening to Peterson is like riding with someone who seems like they’re about to get you to your destination, and right when they’re about to get you there, they exit and get onto an entirely different highway headed to Canada of all places. I don’t want to go to fkn Canada. Get outta here. It’s ok to listen to him so long as you recognize he’s lost and confused and trying to avoid bending the knee
I listened to Jordan Peterson quite a lot, there are a lot of thoughts that had good effect on my life. Recently, I saw the episode where he spoke to two people about relation of psychedelics and religion. As long as they were talking about pagan cults and oriental religions, I thought it might have been factually correct. But then, one of his guests alleged that sacraments could be derived from experiences induced by substances. At this point I thought this is blasphemy or utter ignorance, though the person voicing this opinion claimed to have received a thorough catholic education. I commented that Peterson should ask someone who actually knows and understands Christian faith, as this conversation went in a very wrong direction and they ended up speaking nonsense about something they did not know. Now, a rebuttal video could be interesting 🙂
I really enjoyed reading through the comments, an unusually high percentage of articulate and enlightening responses commending Jordan Peterson’s role in their return to, or re-consideration of, faith. The Roman Catholic Church should, if pride can give way to humility, think about what this phenomena indicates, past, present and future. Peterson also has a friend in The Eastern Orthodox Church through Jonathan Pageau (Symbolic World) Christian followers of JP no doubt watch with interest as to which way he might eventually lean. As others have pointed out he struggles with the enormity (terrifying prospect) of believing in God….we presume through Christ….in so much as it’s impossible to live up to. (My paraphrase). For me his seriousness in considering any commitment is totally right in one way; after all “ the wise builder counts the cost” but is totally missing the point in another. Namely; we cannot live up to Christ’s standard….be good enough….that was/is Christ’s role, purpose, identity…. given to no other. We believe not just IN Him but ON Him. Salvation is Christ’s Grace work, not our legalistic attainment. Our lives should flow in spirit filled gratitude stemming from God’s free gift of love and forgiveness, not labour grimly onward out of tradition or religious guilt or some formal denominational identity to earn it. Who’s attracted to that ? I see JP as strong on the nature side of the nature/grace discussion, (see Bishop Barron on this) that is; do your very best, strive to be the best you (you) can be….absolutely right, but Nietzsche influenced, man centred, half the story….and therefore leaves a person believing they do not require a literal saviour, sacrifice, or the resurrection and it’s hope. And while JP doesn’t outright deny the supernatural/divine element of Jesus’s person and sacrifice it seems fully believing on it comes into conflict with his need to intellectualise the Christian narrative and operate solely within that space….his mind.
You articulated so beautifully. Jordan Peterson is an incredible thinker. It’s a beautiful yet heartbreaking irony that it’s his brilliant mind is what’s holding him back from making the full leap into faith. I’m praying for him!
@@jnerodesu A few words of kindness and encouragement can be priceless; and in their effect and influence quite often beyond our temporal measure. So I thank you gentle woman of God for your opening words to me, a tired and thirsty old pilgrim on the other side of the world who was grateful to drink them in. Your prayers for Jordan ( like all communication humbly aligned with the will and character of God ) are surely heard, and rise as fragrant incense might, to the heavenly throne itself. Sadly, I suspect religious rivalry and denominational claims of exclusivity will persist to the end, as the comments on these forums often suggest and history itself attests. Go safely onward sister. Be a blessing in your creativity, be motivated by love, arm yourself only with sacred weapons and I pray you will continue to know the tangible presence of The Holy Spirit in your life; the bestower of gifts and comforter of our souls. Jesus said: “ If you love me, keep my commands (love one another) and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate (to help you) and be with you forever- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
@@whitestone4805 wow, thank you so much for your kind words! Your response is possibly the kindest comment I’ve received online. God bless you, may the peace of the Lord remain with you always. I can only hope to meet more people like you in person. Blessings 🕊
Jordan Peterson made me cling and grow my Catholic Faith. I was on the verge of atheism and nihilism back then. Thank God for him. I firmly believe that he is open to anything. It is just a matter of time. St. Paul pray for him and his conversion. I hope Trent can see this comment.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians:2:8 Nay!
I love Jordan Peterson as if he were my own father. The positive impact he has had in people's lives is impossible to ignore. But I also think he misses the point of his work. What people need is to look to Jesus Christ. Rely on Him, and everything else will sort itself out. Your room will in fact clean itself.
I was brainwashed to become one of those edge, lord, atheist types that thought that the Catholic Church was corrupt, and that it was all just useless mythology. It wasn’t until I heard Jordan Peterson‘s lectures, that I finally began to look at the Bible is potentially containing significance, albeit just Psychological or philosophical on the surface. But the more I dug deep and actually started to read my Bible the whole world in front of me changed, and I had realized that I had no idea what I was even talking about. That I never really knew the word of God yet was so full of pride, that I thought I knew more about the world than thousands of years of church history. My initial study began from a purely secular position of looking at it through a historical lens. But now I’ve been going back to church and have been a revert to Catholicism. I never knew I was sitting on such a gold mine, being born a cradle Catholic.
Jordan appears to most want to convince young people-most of whom more often than not, think of themselves as believers in “science”-that they should consider reading the Bible and belief in Jesus’ resurrection. If Jordan announces that he’s a Christian, he loses his credibility with the young “science!” crowd, he’s just another believer in the sky-God. But if he never admits publicly that he personally believes in the resurrection and Jesus Christ as his lord and savior, then he maintains his credibility as a scientist-only, and those young people are more willing to listen to the Bible (as interpreted well by him) and the value of Christianity.
We need Trent, we need Peterson and we need Dawkins. Hear everyone hold fast to what is good and leave the rest. In these times it applies to even papacy.
Jordan Peterson is one of the major figures who helped me start understanding Christ, old testament scriptures and eventually to approach the catholic faith. Thank God for him!
Could you do a video on new age practices with a focus on the book The Secret explaining why Catholics can't take part in those practices/why they should stay away from books like those. Thank you for all your videos Trent they're so informative for the faithful!!
I’m an ex new ager / occultist - I know Catholic answers had a brief video on the law of attraction / the secret / to put it simply, the law of attraction is an inherently spiritual practice that’s rooted in ancient Babylonian practices - it’s entirely occult - this is super brief but everything new age is in reality occult / luciferian ( almost satanic, pretty much is tho). We all should be asking Catholics with platforms (Matt Fradd, Trent Horn, Ascension Presents, Brian the redhead I forget his name lol) to expose new age practices cus too many lukewarm Catholic Christians are adopting occult practices without realizing it all violates certain laws in the Torah that apply to us today (the ones that say to stay awake and do not practice any kind of sorcery or magic). All of those practices leave your body wide open for oppression, obsession, and maybe even possession (not common) and I only know this stuff cus I learned it all the hard way ;p God bless you ❤️
Whatever religion is, faith is belief without evidence. If you have evidence, then it is no longer faith. If you search for evidence, that by itself says you no longer have faith. If you don't accept your religion 'as a child', you won't be getting into heaven.
You still haven’t figured out JP…..Jordan is a Christian he just won’t say it because he’ll lose some of his audience that he has affected in positive ways.
When you say, "I try to live as if God exists" it means that he believes God does not exist. I'm low key kinda impressed that he can fool you all into thinking he actually does think that God does.
If you're a Christian and you cannot sustain your Faith in the presence of Jordan Peterson, you better get your faith checked by reading The Word from beginning to end.
It is unfortunate that Patrick Coffin's interview with Peterson has been permanently removed from RUclips. Pat asked him about his beliefs and Peterson answered him.
This guy didn't mention Jung even once in this interview. If you want to understand Peterson, you read Jung. I would not recommend the Red Book to anyone. It is a fall into a recurring nightmare of confusion, degeneration and presumption. The man thinks much of himself, but falls short in so many ways I cannot understand why anyone would consider him quotable. I contend with anyone who would think so when he goes so far as to entertain cross dressing, necrophilia, perversions, and demon worship. Trent. I can share my noted and annotations with you, but this book is a window into the heart of a gnostic and you see it take shape. With your background in other religions and cultures you'll understand the many references, but.. I would pray for Peterson. He's at a crossroads.
It’s really easy to overlook this element of things. Jung wasn’t just another psychologist; for what it’s worth the rest of the psychological discipline threw out his works as unscientific. But his stuff is uncannily popular. Typologies and archetypes are really captivating to the human kind I think.
@@Ark_bleu His work wormed their way deep into Hispanic intellectual inner circles, the cream on top of Spinoza's atheism, to confuse matters further. Gnosticism is returning, and Jung is the poster boy, Peterson the child popularizing it. This man, who warped and twisted so many symbols, should never have resurfaced.
Good interview, though I’d recommend the one on Word on Fire with Bishop Barron, it had better insights into Peterson’s incompatibilities with Catholic teaching. Bishop Barron obviously has a closer relationship with him, so it’s to be expected. Personally, I think Peterson is still working through all the ‘consequences’ of Christian thought before joining the church. You can tell in the biblical lectures and even in recent podcasts that what he believes in when it comes to the matter is still a work in progress.
How I see it: Because of his radical intellectual honesty, he must understand how scientific, historical reality meets the narrative, archetypical, transcendent truth in order to allow himself conversion. It’s almost Hegelian, getting rid of the dichotomy of pure reason and unknowable reality. It’s why I disagree with people when they say he’s a classical liberal. He’s much more conservative than liberal: He has prudence; is skeptic of the intellect (pure reason); values practical problems and stands on scientific empiricism; and doesn’t dismiss culture over economics. Because of the focus on psychology, I imagine there is some missed bibliography for him to see how conservative he really is. I’d also recommend his conversation with Roger Scruton. But the psychedelics thing is indeed weird and I don’t know how that fits into the whole.
If what the Bible says is true the it is true in every sense, psychological, symbolical, structural, biological, emotional, rational, everything. I believe this to be the case that's why I have no problem with people studying scriptures in every sense possible. The important attitude to have is to do what Jordan does which is to open the Bible knowing that you are to be humbled upons such a book, and act humbly, study humbly, knowing that you might be the idiot that is not reading it propperly rather than coming at it as if you knew better.
There’s something about his work I can’t put my finger on; if you’ve read anything else from the Jungian camp you might know what I mean:: There’s a winding quality to it that’s very convincing and very *captivating*; almost impossible to forget. I respect the good he’s doing but if possible, I’d like to read from his apparent predecessors-e.g., Kierkagaard, Schopenhauer, etc. -as well as the Catholic similar Catholic thinkers the prof mentions towards the end.. either way I will keep searching.
Mike Gendron- The Convergence of Islam & Roman Catholicism- (07/25/21) hey Trent, have you refuted this character yet?? The First 3mins are all one needs to hear
This why need lay people like these to work hard to evangelize where priest's can't. Piggy backing off Jordan Peterson is genius. Providing a book that shows people where to go after Jordan is brilliant. I love Jordan Peterson as he's provided so many great insights that I use in my own evagelization. But I can imagine for those first coming to Christianity Jordan leaves you with that feeling of "where do I go from here".
I have really come to appreciate and respect Jordan Peterson’s method of treating Scriptural and Theological matters in such a serious and challenging manner as he does. It exposes for me the lack of depth and seriousness in so much of Christian Evangelicalism. Still, there has always been a “not quite there yet” aspect of his talks and the fact that his wife is a Catholic and most likely his preeminent theological influencer explains why that is. I say this as a former Roman Catholic.
Let's all pray for Jordan Peterson's conversion. In the meantime, "whatsoever things are true, whatsoever modest, whatsoever just, whatsoever holy, whatsoever lovely, whatsoever of good fame, if there be any virtue, if any praise of discipline, think on these things." Philippians 4:8
JBP is why I became a Christian. He takes God very seriously, which is refreshing. I think his positions/beliefs imply Christianity, even if he avoided putting it so bluntly before; and whatever he may not have said publicly, I wouldn't be the least but surprised if he actually were a Christian.
Kaczor = Male Duck in Polish. It's pronounced Kuchor. Cz = ch sound as in cheese. Polish Law and Justice party boss, Kaczynski is called Kaczor by some.
I’d like to hear more on how Peterson talks about psychedelics in Christianity lol cuz that’s hugggeeeee. People say it’s all in the Bible m stuff. Where tho? Devout Roman Catholic here. Thanks
We can only pray for Peterson. To whom much is given much is expected. Peterson is blessed with a lot of wisdom but also a Charism to give thought to a lot of things. He often look burden by this in my opinion, and I think that God comes to everyone in different ways. Peterson seems to certainly have his cross to bear in his journey to faith in Christ.
I love Christ. And I love Dr Jordan B. Peterson. I have his first book 12 Rules for Life. An Antidote to Chaos. And I plan to buy his second book, 12 More Rules for Life. But since there's this book on word of fire, I think I'll also buy that book. Just let me finish what I'm doing and get the money first. Okay? 😄
I think yes as long as you understand what you are getting. He’s not a professing Christian at all that I’m aware. But he has loads more wisdom than 75% of worldly people in general and 99% of people on TV. He has spent a great deal of time studying the Bible and is much much more user friendly than most. He also has terrific usefulness for unbelievers who are lost in life for various reasons.
This is good! :) Should we listen to JBP? Of course, we should listen and learn to discern what God is telling us through this person. He is so sooo authentic, he tries to really look for that "Truth". The only hindrance I have observed from him is, his limitations as a practicing clinical Psychologist. Letting go of what he already know..
I honestly think the reason Catholics like him so much is because there are not enough Catholics speaking up about the ongoing issues. If we don't defend the faith, then non-believers have to take our place.
It’s its interesting that Jordan Peterson himself said that Catholicism is a sane as you can get because of how in line it is with reality. He then broke down in the same video with tears the amount of weight believing in Christ carries. I pray for conversion. His wife already started saying the rosary!
his wife is praying the rosary!? That's awesome
She prays it daily.
It’s only a matter of time.
Is his wife Catholic?
@@rubenmartinez4346 if you had read Jung's Red Book, you would understand his reservations.
Jung is a neo gnostic and you can consider him the prince of the Masonic devils.
As someone who is Catholic and a fan of Jordan I think I can speak on behalf of many people and say that the reason we listen to him is because of his psychological insights (given his profession) and his metaphorical interpretation of many things including scripture for example. We as Catholics know that when we listen to Jordan we aren’t expecting any substance in theology or apologetics. When I listen to him speak about theology I retain what I find useful and compatible with my beliefs and I reject anything I find problematic.
I came to the church because of him. Now I'm just waiting for him to realize what he's saying.
Yes, we take the wheat and leave the chaff.
I do that too with a lot of non Catholic info I find. My base line for knowledge is my faith.
Hey, I'm a Protestant that listens to the Council of Trent RUclips channel. I do the same, here! 😉
I love Peterson but I love Christ more and yes I only retain that which is valuable for this Catholic and I too listen to many channels as I want to know what my fellow siblings are saying.
God did use Jordan Peterson in a way to help bring me back to my faith, and I do greatly like Jordan Peterson. However, once one converts or reverts to Christianity, Jordan Peterson really does lose quite a bit of intrigue, in my opinion. Peterson argues fervently and extremely eloquently for the importance of religious belief, the narrative meaning of Christianity and the necessity to embrace suffering willingly. However, after awhile, you have to ask if any of this really matters if Christianity isn't true? Ultimately I find that Peterson does a good job at arguing why religion is needed by the human mind and the positive effects of belief, but as a Christian we know that if there isn't sufficient reason to believe that Jesus is God, our faith is in vain and we are just clinging to a man made, mythical tradition. A lot of his scripture commentaries are interesting, but are pure psychologizing of the text, which in my opinion CAN step in the way of authentic faith. But let me reiterate, I really like his work.
Well said.
Jordan Peterson ended his magnum opus Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief (which was published in 1999-well before his rise in fame) with a dream he had (pages 460-461) of him unwillingly being lifted up and “trapped in a chandelier” high above a dome with people below him very angry at him, he didn’t want to be there but as he tried escaping a wind swept him back up in the chandelier, all he wanted was to “go home” and then he found himself in a small windowless room in the center of his house that was a furnace but the wind kept sweeping him up towards the chandelier, when he awoke he claims he had a vision of giant gothic double doors facing him, and he was terrified.
This dream itself is a metaphor of what is actually happening to Dr. Peterson today-and it has manifested as his own myth and history meeting ontologically in reality, the very thing he cannot yet bring himself to believe in Christ. Believers can call this the Holy Spirit at work, and the double doors are facing him....which door will he choose for all to witness?
Be blessed on your journey, fellow truth seekers.
@@johnnytass2111 wow, I didnt know about that story... I love Jordan Peterson, he helped me to come back to my Faith and I pray he one day may surrender to God entirelly... He surely is in an amazing journey right before our eyes...
@@johnnytass2111 thanks for mentioning that. I've always been interested in Map of Meaning, but have never read it.
I do think unfortunately Dr. Peterson has been negatively impacted by his extensive study and career in Human Psychology.
Psychologists, Historians, and those involved in the hard science tend to be atheist, not because any of these fields are in conflict with supernatural faith, but they deal very specifically with making the extraordinary, ordinary and the unknown, known. Their work "demystifies". For those who become embodied in their work, this thinking begins to plague the brain with the need to overly rationalize everything, and instead of contemplating the wonderous mysteries of the unknown, everything is knowable and boring.
This is why I believe Jordan is so concerned with suffering, because he has said it himself, life has only proximal meaning if God does not exist. This means if he does not have faith, he submits, maybe even unwillingly, to the fact that their may be NO ultimate meaning to life, which as we can all understand puts quite a damper on ones life. You can see the struggle within himself to accept Christ through his years of conditioning himself through work as a rational materialist.
My experience as well.
@@williamswenson3970 Well said again, Mr Swenson. Maps of Meaning is a difficult read, at least it was for me. But very interesting. I actually read it before his serious medical and health issues that put him in a coma for two weeks. I remembered the dream he wrote about to close the book, which was a huge endeavor. When I went back to read how he described his dream experience I was struck at how it succintly encapsulated his life trajectory, and this was about 20 years prior to his recent life events. He is being called to Christ, and his journey is hampered for the very reasons you described. I think he must feel deep down that if he "misses the mark," the whole point of his rise in recognition and inspiration to so many would be ultimately meaningless for his own self.
JBP was my Moses. Led me out of my Egypt-of-Agnosticism and helped me cross the Jordan into the Catholic faith (no small task: i grew up Dutch-reformed, anti-Catholic).
But like Moses he still seems stuck on the wrong side of the Jordan River.
I will always thank God for using him to bring me into the fold
Let's pray that he wakes up to that fact and realizes why he was named "Jordan".
Thanks be to God. Welcome home my friend =)
It seems to me that Jordan Peterson actually treats the belief in God very seriously. He doesn't want to believe in a "lukewarm" manner. He states that if one truly believes that it would be terrifying. And he's right. All of a sudden life becomes a high stakes game that is beyond comprehension.
Still, he's unwilling to believe. He has to take that next step. He's obviously in the camp of the notion of the Christian God, which gives him only two basic choices, Catholicism or Protestantism (I choose to believe in Catholicism, hook, line and sinker). Which leads to only one conclusion. WE GOTTA PRAY LIKE CRAZY FOR THIS GUY!!!
@@stephencuskley5251 Don't forget the Orthodoxy which has Dostoyevsky whom Peterson admires.
I too hope that if he does decide to believe that Christ is who he claimed to be that he chooses Catholicism.
It really does change someone's life, including mine, to realize that there is a God who is always with me, and has the ability to judge and observe everything that I do. It makes me feel that any freedom I have is also, by default, an accountable responsibility. Denying God eliminates this sense of responsibility. This is an area where I think Peterson and Christians intersect well. After all, if no one is watching you, no one is judging you, and no one has power or authority over your life; this means you are meaningless, totally alone and free from responsibility at the same time. Faith has saved me from this awful trap, and I think Peterson appreciates this.
@@stephencuskley5251 it’s scary to believe when coming from atheist approach. You often believe at heart but the hyper rational brain is struggling.
@@stephencuskley5251 The two basic choices are Catholicism and Orthodoxy. A wise guy like him wouldn't even think about Protestantism. He also talks a lot with Catholics (like Bishop Barron) and Orthodox (like Jonathan Pageau) so I'm sure he will never be Protestant.
Peterson does a great job of moving men from thinking in terms of hedonism to thinking about life in terms of virtue.
Yes that is correct. And also beyond nihilistic and resentful beliefs.
If it wasn't for Jordan Peterson, there is a very good chance I wouldn't be Catholic today
It's such a shame that he stops short of embracing the Catholic Faith when he has led so many people to it. Let's pray for him.
And how is that a service to you? Catholicism is not Christianity. Is smeared on top of it. Just look at its history. Go read scripture.
And how is that a service to you? Catholicism is not Christianity. Is smeared on top of it. Just look at its history. Go read scripture.
@@einarabelc5
I have read scripture and know of history. So, what's your point?
@@einarabelc5 Study the history of Catholicism from Catholic sources, not anti-Catholic ones. Scripture is an important part of history, but so are Tradition and the Magisterium.
Jordan Peterson is who and what reignited my faith. So much so that there was a period of time where I admittedly idolized him. Without Peterson I would not be a defender of the Catholic faith. Without Peterson I don’t find Barron, Trent Horn, Matt Fradd, Etc.
Probably better not to find Barron...but other than that I agree and had the same experience.
Yes, it is important to make sure we don't replace God with these speakers. This can even happen with Barron, Trent, and Matt, especially if our faith is strengthened through their works.
@@OrthoLou lol
@@OrthoLou I guess that, despite all the explaining he did about that one video on "Dare We Hope", there are still some people who accuse him of being heterodox. Though he has brought many to the Catholic faith, and has some really insightful commentaries and presentations.
I grew up Catholic and became an atheist in high school and in the last year, bc of JP, I’ve realized the importance for rejecting the nihilistic and hedonistic thinking of our culture today. In pursuit of seeking virtue I ended up turning back to my faith. I’m hoping to learn plenty and become a well rounded and educated Catholic again.
Christianity is still reeling from the shock of no longer being the dominant framework by which society interprets ideas, so arguments starting from the foundation of 'Cuz God said its bad', lose a lot of punch.
Which is where Peterson shines. By communicating these Christian values through a psycho-social and philosophical lens, before tying it back to the metaphysical.
Christians need to re-learn these skills if we want to communicate the Word to the coming generation
Reminds me of a certain distinction in Franciscan and Dominican thought. Franciscans would have you believe something is good because God made it so; Dominicans (and I mean mostly St. Thomas Aquinas) think on the other hand that something good is inherently good. Not willing to bash Fransiscans, just an observation.
You're right though; there has to be something more substantial if we want to convert the world.
I don't think it is or should be final form of it. Not relying on "cuse god said so" is a step in right direction, but unfortunately JP is pretty well known for pretty shoddy philosophy which has silly consequences like the fact that his understanding of it is absolutely limited to Jung, not to mention his famous postmodern neomarxism. Not surprising - he's an ex-psychologist, not someone with experience in philosophy. The reason why he's shoddy even in terms of psychology is because he appears to be mostly basing himself on evolutionary psychology, and which were pointed out by people like Cass Eris. It might be becuse science is not a suitable horse for lifting normative statements in general, let alone entire sets of beliefs like Jordy's conservatism or religion, especially if you're a person caught lying on social issues like C-16, like Jordy was. For the sake of your religion I hope that you will learn from his approach but won't consider him the best you can come up with.
I agree with this comment for sure. If there is not a strong foundation, it is not possible(or wise) to build upon it. The way people understand and perceive God will determine whether they accept His teaching or not, whether they can even understand what they are, and for what reason.
That's not the issue, the issue is that humans stopped suffering for real and Christianity got confused with Church.
Jordan Peterson has spread the Christian message to more young people then then entire Catholic Church within the last decade. The Catholic Church has become woke.
Hey Trent, I’m halfway through “Persuasive Pro-Life”. I have really learned a lot from it and I am very appreciative that you wrote it.
He has true ideas that are universal anyone seeking truth can come to similar ideas. He speaks them aloud on a large platform. We should all pray for him and for his family, especially his daughter. She is on a path as well.
Jordan Peterson was instrumental in my reversion to the Catholic faith. That being said, he shouldn’t be judged according to the standards of orthodox theology because I don’t think that’s what he’s ever claimed to espouse.
But imagine what a tremendous force he would become if he became a Catholic. LET'S ALL PRAY FOR HIS CONVERSION!!! Saint Monica was just one woman who prayed for her son's conversion. If we ALL pray for JP's conversion, I think that like Saint Monica, we'd get another St. Augustine!
Jordan Peterson is a beckoning voice who has reluctantly invited people to climb the stairs leading to God. But the very reason that he was heard by nonbelievers is that he was himself on the lower parts of the stairway. God does use mysterious ways to accomplish his ultimate divine plan. May God bless Jordan Peterson and his family.
Jordan Peterson used to say "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid He might exist."
Ok Trent new mission , you and Jimmy need to have Jordan Peterson on a show and convert this man to be Catholic! We could use a power house like him as well. Although thinking about it he is a great door way to Christian philosophy. He gets people thinking 🤔 , so in itself he helps the start of one's journey to conversion. Maybe that's really God's plan for him :)
I think Jordan is too smart to fall for the woo claims of the church.
Add Father Ripperger to the discussion. I want to see JP argue with a guy who actually talks with demons.
If not for coming across JBP in Sep 2016 I would not be becoming Catholic in 2021.
God showed me grace regardless and maybe I would have gotten over the line regardless but JBP was a big part of my journey to Christianity early on.
the problem with Peterson is that he's attached to Nietzsche and Jung, while he's attached to these modern thinkers, he won't be able to convert sincererly. But I thank him for showing that religion and specially the bible can be explained in a rational manner, before him I never thought about that. And the Church can learn some things from him for sure.
For a philosopher to declare "God is dead" as Nietzsche did, and have this resonate with others, shows a great challenge to the Church and to faith itself. I would like to think that this type of challenging force gave the Church the opportunity to see it for what it is and fight against it, thus proving "God is alive." But then again, if there has been too much of a movement away from the Church, it is a lost battle. Maybe it is an argument for the "Living Word" regardless of how many people are hearing it at any given time. This may connect with Peterson's ability to speak the truth, even when unpopular.
In the past few years when I have heard him speak of a personal religious belief, I sense a deep internal conflict. Maybe on a CS Lewis level when Tolkien and Chesterton were both debating with him about the Church and he was resisting on an intellectual level.
I think Lewis partly illustrates his struggle in the Great Divorce where the protagonist runs into a group of intellectuals who would rather debate the possibility and complexity and seeming paradox of God rather than just move forward and receive Truth.
To me it seems that accepting the Truth, God become Man and sacrificed for our sins, is terrifying to him, so he is maintaining a safe intellectual distance which is becoming more difficult for him to manage.
I remember the tears in his eyes and the anguish in his voice when speaking of the Crucifixion, Death and Resurrection, and he said “What do you even do with that? What do you DO with that?!” As if the thought of such a perfect act of love and redemption was too beautiful to contemplate and was terrifying in that if you accept it, you owe everything you are to Christ. Like jumping of a cliff.
I pray for him that he comes to the understanding that while it is terrifying in our weaknesses to be loved in such an overwhelming manner and to know we can never deserve it, there eso much joy in accepting the humility of our complete dependence on God and standing at his altar with our worldwide family as often as possible.
Jordan Peterson has been a blessing in my life. God bless Professor Peterson!
God is using JP for good. Nuf said.
I think the answer is a resounding NO because he's not a Christian as far as I know. He just likes the psychological effect Christianity has on the mind.
Ancient philosophers weren't Christian either. Should we dismiss them? Does the fact he's not a Christian automatically mean he's not wise and hasn't got some potentially interesting things to say?
@@ХристоМартунковграфЛозенски yes
THANK YOU for seeing what he is! He talks about the psychology around Catholicism or Orthodoxy (like Catholic confession or bearing your cross like an Orthodox) but he'll never say "oh yeah when I went to confession" or "ya when I went to Orthodox service". After all this hype, he's never converted. And Christians don't see that and think he is one.
What many seem to be missing is that we are watching the transformation of an atheist to a Christian. He is searching. Give him the time God gave you.
the funny thing is that when people ask Jordan if he believes in the Resurrection of Christ he turns into a snowflake, otherwise i'm a fan of his
Trent Horn does a terrific job interviewing other thinkers. I hope he continues expanding his podcast.
I LOVE my fellow Canadian , Jordan Peterson. I just had him read his book to me ... 😁 .....12 Rules . It was awesome and now I want to listen to Maps of Meaning
Jordan Peterson and his biblical lectures brought lots of people to God. He also helped me to come back to the Church ❤️ I was baptized but was raised in atheist, anti-Catholic family and he reconciled me with the Holy Church .
Jordan Peterson has been instrumental in giving a new perspective and strength to the practical side of my faith. The only criticism people can lay against him is he is focused on the psychological side and has not affirmed and doubts the literal truths of theology. That taken with a grain of salt, i think he should be mandatory listening for Christians along side any bible study.
Jordan Peterson expresses so well the enormity of what it means to claim to be Christian. He reminds us that we have to be willing to empty our SELVES in order to truly follow Jesus. I think we can easily slip away from understanding the depth of what is required, and Peterson, as an “outsider”(?), is overwhelmed by it.
One of the most interesting things Peterson did was tieing faith directly to actions. By defining faith as "Not simply saying that you believe, but acting in your life as if you knew that would you believe is real", he kinda bridged between Catholics and Protestant on Eschatology.
I'd like you Trent to do an episode talking about the "hallucinogenic origins of Christianity" that's a somewhat popular position and I've seen in the Christian world just Paul VanderKlay address this kinds of arguments, keep the good work brother 🔝
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
Oh Trent, this was a real test for me clicking on this video. I have such admiration for Jordan that if you came out like some Protestant folks have and gave quick dismissal I would’ve been very disappointed. I agree that he doesn’t have the fullness of truth, but his material has been so revelatory to me that’s it’s been very worth while. I appreciate your professionalism as always and I was pleasantly surprised and interested in your guest’s thoughts. Keep it up!
I don't like Jordan Peterson because he presents his highly subjective opinions as "archetypal" truths of humanity. He's literally just interpreting the Bible stories (and all of human history!) through the lens of his own personality (ESTJ and Enneagram One). He misunderstands and misrepresents philosophical thinkers. (I majored in philosophy.). His thinking is so sloppy that it's hard for me to listen to. I can't stand his hypocrisy. There's more reasons, but if people like him for the self-help stuff, there are many, many self-help authors to get insight from without all the crap that JP interjects into it.
I’ve listened to some of Peterson’s lectures and interviews, but don’t follow him too much. Although during the last round of public attacks I bought a few “Hail Lobster” stickers for support 😅
However, I follow other people who mention how much their views have changed due to Peterson and followers do as well. In the basic sense, Peterson puts to words what’s common to Christian ideas and frames them in a way the more skeptical can digest.
While it would be richer to place Catholic philosophers like Thomas Aquinas before people, the years of dividing faith and reason can be a struggle for some people to accept. Since Peterson comes at it from a different angle, religious skeptics are more open to his ideas.
I think he’s but a stepping stone for some people. Some will fixate themselves on Peterson, others will grow from there. So long as it gets people thinking and desiring Truth, I think Peterson is a decent start.
To quote the great late-90s philosopher Daria Morgendorffer: “The truth and a lie are not kinda sorta the same thing.”
I don’t follow Peterson super closely but he does zoom out enough to equivocate between many of the cultural myths.
Hey Trent, can you talk about the RUclipsr Polite Leader? He's recent video is about an actor from the chosen ( tho it's irrelevant who the person is but most importantly..) that he venerates a dead saint ( Padre Pio)
@Thomas Hosker Ofc
And that's not the problem
Cuz I went ahead and watched the video and he's basically saying that catholic are worshipping the saints and Mary as well which is sad cuz we actually don't!
And the fact that there are so many comments bad mouthing us Catholics
Well all saints are alive in Christ
@@LavleenJeena The word "worship" is an English word that didn't exist for centuries after the time of Christ. For most non-Catholics, it only means one thing. They can't (or refuse to) understand the difference between dulia, hyperdulia, and latria.
Jordan Peterson misses the Forest for the trees whenever he talks about religion.
Also takes 2hrs to answer if he believes in God
Many of JP’s insights aren’t new if you are already a thoughtful Catholic who has done some reading of the Church Fathers and Church Teaching.
However, that is not to discount the journey he is on, and the fact he is making the journey based on his prodigious mental capacity.
Thank you for inviting prof. Kaczor so much! I’ve absolutely loved him... just finished reading his book on bioethical disputes.
Imagine what a tremendous force JP would become if he converted to Catholicism. Saint Monica prayed for her son's conversion, and look what we got... St. Augustine! Let's ALL pray for JP's conversion.
I’m not a Christian, but why would you listen to Jordan Peterson when there’s literally thousands of years worth of better material you could engage with? Theologians, philosophers, writers, etc. before and since Christ have way more intelligent and insightful things to say. Heck, if you want to learn about archetypal psychology, why not even go straight to Jung instead of Peterson’s discount version?
Our time on Earth is limited, so we should spend our time carefully and seriously, especially in matters of the intellect/soul.
I think the power of Jordan is that 1) he introduces you were to look and 2) repackages this ancient or common sense wisdon rather than have an original profound idea of his own.
@@vtorious9102 yes that's an ok place to start but afterwards shouldn't his fans go to the source of these ideas? I'm just confused because people seem to not go any further, even though they really care about these topics.
Peterson brought me to catholicism and I can't thank him enough
I've seen a number of testimonies from anti-theists who become Christian because of him. And I'd say he's one of the influences that has ultimately led me to from Protestantism to Catholicism, despite his sometimes strange theology. He certainly made me think more deeply. Also he focused on hell in a credible, convincing, convicting way when the Church largely abandoned talking about it. He was effective.
Personally I'm not a fan. I don't know what it is, but I suspect it was the fact I had a strong relationship with my father while he was alive. A lot of guys my age who like him make him into a parasocial father figure & it's creepy.
Jordan Peterson has incredible courage and always tells the truth. He strongly supports traditional marriage and personal responsibility. He walks the walk and doesn’t just talk the talk. Totally inspiring to this Catholic convert
Jordan led me back to my Catholic faith. I think he's done this for many people by making a powerful, logical and reasoned argument for the validity of the Judeo/Christian foundation of Western Civilization. Previously I think most people felt that to be religious was to be "simple" and "illogical", Jordan clearly proved this is not true.
Listening to Peterson is like riding with someone who seems like they’re about to get you to your destination, and right when they’re about to get you there, they exit and get onto an entirely different highway headed to Canada of all places. I don’t want to go to fkn Canada. Get outta here.
It’s ok to listen to him so long as you recognize he’s lost and confused and trying to avoid bending the knee
I listened to Jordan Peterson quite a lot, there are a lot of thoughts that had good effect on my life. Recently, I saw the episode where he spoke to two people about relation of psychedelics and religion. As long as they were talking about pagan cults and oriental religions, I thought it might have been factually correct. But then, one of his guests alleged that sacraments could be derived from experiences induced by substances. At this point I thought this is blasphemy or utter ignorance, though the person voicing this opinion claimed to have received a thorough catholic education. I commented that Peterson should ask someone who actually knows and understands Christian faith, as this conversation went in a very wrong direction and they ended up speaking nonsense about something they did not know.
Now, a rebuttal video could be interesting 🙂
I really enjoyed reading through the comments, an unusually high percentage of articulate and enlightening responses commending Jordan Peterson’s role in their return to, or re-consideration of, faith.
The Roman Catholic Church should, if pride can give way to humility, think about what this phenomena indicates, past, present and future.
Peterson also has a friend in The Eastern Orthodox Church through Jonathan Pageau (Symbolic World)
Christian followers of JP no doubt watch with interest as to which way he might eventually lean.
As others have pointed out he struggles with the enormity (terrifying prospect) of believing in God….we presume through Christ….in so much as it’s impossible to live up to. (My paraphrase).
For me his seriousness in considering any commitment is totally right in one way; after all “ the wise builder counts the cost” but is totally missing the point in another. Namely; we cannot live up to Christ’s standard….be good enough….that was/is Christ’s role, purpose, identity…. given to no other.
We believe not just IN Him but ON Him.
Salvation is Christ’s Grace work, not our legalistic attainment.
Our lives should flow in spirit filled gratitude stemming from God’s free gift of love and forgiveness, not labour grimly onward out of tradition or religious guilt or some formal denominational identity to earn it. Who’s attracted to that ?
I see JP as strong on the nature side of the nature/grace discussion, (see Bishop Barron on this) that is; do your very best, strive to be the best you (you) can be….absolutely right, but Nietzsche influenced, man centred, half the story….and therefore leaves a person believing they do not require a literal saviour, sacrifice, or the resurrection and it’s hope.
And while JP doesn’t outright deny the supernatural/divine element of Jesus’s person and sacrifice it seems fully believing on it comes into conflict with his need to intellectualise the Christian narrative and operate solely within that space….his mind.
You articulated so beautifully. Jordan Peterson is an incredible thinker. It’s a beautiful yet heartbreaking irony that it’s his brilliant mind is what’s holding him back from making the full leap into faith. I’m praying for him!
@@jnerodesu
A few words of kindness and encouragement can be priceless; and in their effect and influence quite often beyond our temporal measure.
So I thank you gentle woman of God for your opening words to me, a tired and thirsty old pilgrim on the other side of the world who was grateful to drink them in.
Your prayers for Jordan ( like all communication humbly aligned with the will and character of God ) are surely heard, and rise as fragrant incense might, to the heavenly throne itself.
Sadly, I suspect religious rivalry and denominational claims of exclusivity will persist to the end, as the comments on these forums often suggest and history itself attests.
Go safely onward sister.
Be a blessing in your creativity, be motivated by love, arm yourself only with sacred weapons and I pray you will continue to know the tangible presence of The Holy Spirit in your life; the bestower of gifts and comforter of our souls.
Jesus said:
“ If you love me, keep my commands (love one another) and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate (to help you) and be with you forever- the Spirit of truth.
The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him.
But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
@@whitestone4805 wow, thank you so much for your kind words! Your response is possibly the kindest comment I’ve received online. God bless you, may the peace of the Lord remain with you always. I can only hope to meet more people like you in person. Blessings 🕊
God bless Jordan Peterson, and his family.
Jordan Peterson made me cling and grow my Catholic Faith. I was on the verge of atheism and nihilism back then. Thank God for him. I firmly believe that he is open to anything. It is just a matter of time. St. Paul pray for him and his conversion. I hope Trent can see this comment.
Of course Catholics should listen to Peterson, since we love truth wherever it is found.
why would I need permission to listen to something lol
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians:2:8
Nay!
I love Jordan Peterson as if he were my own father. The positive impact he has had in people's lives is impossible to ignore. But I also think he misses the point of his work. What people need is to look to Jesus Christ. Rely on Him, and everything else will sort itself out. Your room will in fact clean itself.
I was brainwashed to become one of those edge, lord, atheist types that thought that the Catholic Church was corrupt, and that it was all just useless mythology. It wasn’t until I heard Jordan Peterson‘s lectures, that I finally began to look at the Bible is potentially containing significance, albeit just Psychological or philosophical on the surface. But the more I dug deep and actually started to read my Bible the whole world in front of me changed, and I had realized that I had no idea what I was even talking about. That I never really knew the word of God yet was so full of pride, that I thought I knew more about the world than thousands of years of church history. My initial study began from a purely secular position of looking at it through a historical lens. But now I’ve been going back to church and have been a revert to Catholicism. I never knew I was sitting on such a gold mine, being born a cradle Catholic.
Jordan appears to most want to convince young people-most of whom more often than not, think of themselves as believers in “science”-that they should consider reading the Bible and belief in Jesus’ resurrection. If Jordan announces that he’s a Christian, he loses his credibility with the young “science!” crowd, he’s just another believer in the sky-God. But if he never admits publicly that he personally believes in the resurrection and Jesus Christ as his lord and savior, then he maintains his credibility as a scientist-only, and those young people are more willing to listen to the Bible (as interpreted well by him) and the value of Christianity.
We need Trent, we need Peterson and we need Dawkins. Hear everyone hold fast to what is good and leave the rest. In these times it applies to even papacy.
Too bad now he's on the psychedelics bandwagon. Many of his more recent videos are about psychedelics and their (alleged) "spiritual benefit".
Jordan Peterson is one of the major figures who helped me start understanding Christ, old testament scriptures and eventually to approach the catholic faith. Thank God for him!
Could you do a video on new age practices with a focus on the book The Secret explaining why Catholics can't take part in those practices/why they should stay away from books like those. Thank you for all your videos Trent they're so informative for the faithful!!
I’m an ex new ager / occultist - I know Catholic answers had a brief video on the law of attraction / the secret / to put it simply, the law of attraction is an inherently spiritual practice that’s rooted in ancient Babylonian practices - it’s entirely occult - this is super brief but everything new age is in reality occult / luciferian ( almost satanic, pretty much is tho). We all should be asking Catholics with platforms (Matt Fradd, Trent Horn, Ascension Presents, Brian the redhead I forget his name lol) to expose new age practices cus too many lukewarm Catholic Christians are adopting occult practices without realizing it all violates certain laws in the Torah that apply to us today (the ones that say to stay awake and do not practice any kind of sorcery or magic). All of those practices leave your body wide open for oppression, obsession, and maybe even possession (not common) and I only know this stuff cus I learned it all the hard way ;p God bless you ❤️
@@mcspankey4810 Brian Holdsworth. Excellent channel too.
What is a Christian then,how many catholics of Roman system are living the life of Christ day to day. Very narrow myopic views. Just empty talk
Whatever religion is, faith is belief without evidence. If you have evidence, then it is no longer faith. If you search for evidence, that by itself says you no longer have faith. If you don't accept your religion 'as a child', you won't be getting into heaven.
You still haven’t figured out JP…..Jordan is a Christian he just won’t say it because he’ll lose some of his audience that he has affected in positive ways.
When you say, "I try to live as if God exists" it means that he believes God does not exist. I'm low key kinda impressed that he can fool you all into thinking he actually does think that God does.
Vox Day wrote a good book on Jordan Peterson
If you're a Christian and you cannot sustain your Faith in the presence of Jordan Peterson, you better get your faith checked by reading The Word from beginning to end.
It's /katschor/, not /keizer/ :D Cheers from a Pole!
It is unfortunate that Patrick Coffin's interview with Peterson has been permanently removed from RUclips. Pat asked him about his beliefs and Peterson answered him.
What? It is? How sad...
This guy didn't mention Jung even once in this interview.
If you want to understand Peterson, you read Jung.
I would not recommend the Red Book to anyone. It is a fall into a recurring nightmare of confusion, degeneration and presumption. The man thinks much of himself, but falls short in so many ways I cannot understand why anyone would consider him quotable. I contend with anyone who would think so when he goes so far as to entertain cross dressing, necrophilia, perversions, and demon worship.
Trent. I can share my noted and annotations with you, but this book is a window into the heart of a gnostic and you see it take shape. With your background in other religions and cultures you'll understand the many references, but.. I would pray for Peterson. He's at a crossroads.
The Red Book is definitely an open door way into the occult - modern day new age is the occult shrouded with rainbow wrapping paper
It’s really easy to overlook this element of things. Jung wasn’t just another psychologist; for what it’s worth the rest of the psychological discipline threw out his works as unscientific. But his stuff is uncannily popular. Typologies and archetypes are really captivating to the human kind I think.
@@Ark_bleu His work wormed their way deep into Hispanic intellectual inner circles, the cream on top of Spinoza's atheism, to confuse matters further.
Gnosticism is returning, and Jung is the poster boy, Peterson the child popularizing it. This man, who warped and twisted so many symbols, should never have resurfaced.
Very good question. Follow Christ first, no Peterson.
Hey Trent. Could you please debunk Caesar’s Messiah by Joseph Atwill. Its basically a book claiming that the Roman’s invented Jesus
Yes. Listening to JP helped me to reconsider the Bible.
Good interview, though I’d recommend the one on Word on Fire with Bishop Barron, it had better insights into Peterson’s incompatibilities with Catholic teaching. Bishop Barron obviously has a closer relationship with him, so it’s to be expected. Personally, I think Peterson is still working through all the ‘consequences’ of Christian thought before joining the church. You can tell in the biblical lectures and even in recent podcasts that what he believes in when it comes to the matter is still a work in progress.
How I see it: Because of his radical intellectual honesty, he must understand how scientific, historical reality meets the narrative, archetypical, transcendent truth in order to allow himself conversion. It’s almost Hegelian, getting rid of the dichotomy of pure reason and unknowable reality. It’s why I disagree with people when they say he’s a classical liberal. He’s much more conservative than liberal: He has prudence; is skeptic of the intellect (pure reason); values practical problems and stands on scientific empiricism; and doesn’t dismiss culture over economics. Because of the focus on psychology, I imagine there is some missed bibliography for him to see how conservative he really is. I’d also recommend his conversation with Roger Scruton.
But the psychedelics thing is indeed weird and I don’t know how that fits into the whole.
clean your room, Trent...
And make your bed
Jordan needs Trent, not the other way around.
Peterson is the ultimate middle-brow intellectual.
He saves all his reverence for the anti-Christs at the Jordan
If what the Bible says is true the it is true in every sense, psychological, symbolical, structural, biological, emotional, rational, everything. I believe this to be the case that's why I have no problem with people studying scriptures in every sense possible. The important attitude to have is to do what Jordan does which is to open the Bible knowing that you are to be humbled upons such a book, and act humbly, study humbly, knowing that you might be the idiot that is not reading it propperly rather than coming at it as if you knew better.
Presuming no Jesuits here. (Because this question would be viewed as being as moot and ridiculous as it clearly is)
How do you mean?
There’s something about his work I can’t put my finger on; if you’ve read anything else from the Jungian camp you might know what I mean:: There’s a winding quality to it that’s very convincing and very *captivating*; almost impossible to forget.
I respect the good he’s doing but if possible, I’d like to read from his apparent predecessors-e.g., Kierkagaard, Schopenhauer, etc. -as well as the Catholic similar Catholic thinkers the prof mentions towards the end.. either way I will keep searching.
Transparently ridiculous topic. You listen to people based on the merits of what they say, not who they are.
Clearly the title of the vid is asking about Jordan Peterson’s ideas” not literally whether Catholics are allowed to hear the man
Jordan Peterson says you need to become a Monster. I’m not sure if that fits in with Catholicism.
Lol yea I just saw this
Mike Gendron- The Convergence of Islam & Roman Catholicism- (07/25/21)
hey Trent, have you refuted this character yet?? The First 3mins are all one needs to hear
This why need lay people like these to work hard to evangelize where priest's can't. Piggy backing off Jordan Peterson is genius. Providing a book that shows people where to go after Jordan is brilliant. I love Jordan Peterson as he's provided so many great insights that I use in my own evagelization. But I can imagine for those first coming to Christianity Jordan leaves you with that feeling of "where do I go from here".
May have heard of him? Lol
Nay.
Trent how do we reach you?
I have really come to appreciate and respect Jordan Peterson’s method of treating Scriptural and Theological matters in such a serious and challenging manner as he does. It exposes for me the lack of depth and seriousness in so much of Christian Evangelicalism. Still, there has always been a “not quite there yet” aspect of his talks and the fact that his wife is a Catholic and most likely his preeminent theological influencer explains why that is. I say this as a former Roman Catholic.
Let's all pray for Jordan Peterson's conversion. In the meantime, "whatsoever things are true, whatsoever modest, whatsoever just, whatsoever holy, whatsoever lovely, whatsoever of good fame, if there be any virtue, if any praise of discipline, think on these things." Philippians 4:8
JBP is why I became a Christian. He takes God very seriously, which is refreshing. I think his positions/beliefs imply Christianity, even if he avoided putting it so bluntly before; and whatever he may not have said publicly, I wouldn't be the least but surprised if he actually were a Christian.
Kaczor = Male Duck in Polish. It's pronounced Kuchor. Cz = ch sound as in cheese. Polish Law and Justice party boss, Kaczynski is called Kaczor by some.
Love J.P. !!!
I’d like to hear more on how Peterson talks about psychedelics in Christianity lol cuz that’s hugggeeeee. People say it’s all in the Bible m stuff. Where tho? Devout Roman Catholic here. Thanks
We can only pray for Peterson. To whom much is given much is expected. Peterson is blessed with a lot of wisdom but also a Charism to give thought to a lot of things. He often look burden by this in my opinion, and I think that God comes to everyone in different ways. Peterson seems to certainly have his cross to bear in his journey to faith in Christ.
I love Christ. And I love Dr Jordan B. Peterson. I have his first book 12 Rules for Life. An Antidote to Chaos. And I plan to buy his second book, 12 More Rules for Life. But since there's this book on word of fire, I think I'll also buy that book. Just let me finish what I'm doing and get the money first. Okay? 😄
heck no.
I think yes as long as you understand what you are getting. He’s not a professing Christian at all that I’m aware. But he has loads more wisdom than 75% of worldly people in general and 99% of people on TV.
He has spent a great deal of time studying the Bible and is much much more user friendly than most. He also has terrific usefulness for unbelievers who are lost in life for various reasons.
This is good! :) Should we listen to JBP? Of course, we should listen and learn to discern what God is telling us through this person. He is so sooo authentic, he tries to really look for that "Truth". The only hindrance I have observed from him is, his limitations as a practicing clinical Psychologist. Letting go of what he already know..
I honestly think the reason Catholics like him so much is because there are not enough Catholics speaking up about the ongoing issues. If we don't defend the faith, then non-believers have to take our place.
I like Jordan Peterson but sometimes I do worry he's like the professor in the great divorce