Great videos, and better, understanding how and where power is placed within a train beyond what type, grade and more!! Grew up near Salem in the SP days. Manned helpers required a lot of experience to coordinate with the head-end to first start a train on a grade without breaking a knuckle or worse! Old friend was a conductor out of Dunsmuir that made trips over the steep Siskiyou Pass -- fixing blown air hoses and then broken knuckles in pouring rain to make it up and over to Medford -- intense railroading!! Love your channel!!!!
A great place to camp if you like to listen to engines and river rapids is Black Canyon Forest Service campground, Willamette National Forest, between Dexter and Oakridge. The trains going up that grade on the other side of the Willamette River are at full throttle (my opinion) and it is fun to be awakened in the night to hear the Diesel engines working hard….
Great video with good information about the helper additions, thank you. In the original consist, before the helper addition, the engineer is in control of the DPUs, after the helpers are added who is in control of the helpers? It is very interesting to see how many crews it takes to get a train such as this from Canada to it's final destination. A train crew is made up of two people, the engineer and the brakeman, where does a fireman come in to play in today's railroad crew? It also appeared to me that the helper consist had a man in the lead unit and a man in the end unit, is that common. Thanks again for making such interesting videos, I love getting to know more about how things work on the railroad, just an old retired truck diesel mechanic who loves trains.
I saw a helper set that included a CN engine get cut into the middle of one of the BNSF grain trains at that very spot a few days ago. The consist of the train going up the mountain was BNSF-BNSF x CN-UP-UP-UP x BNSF-CP. Not every day you see all 4 Class Is in western North America represented on one train.
True! That’s an excellent consist. The CN in the mid helpers was an anomaly. It was inserted off a work train when a UP broke down in Oakridge. It costs the company extra to use it in the interim for this service. Thanks for mentioning it!
Great video. Helpers Play a Very Important part on Subs ALL around the US & Canada. Without them, Power Requirements would definitely need to be Updated. 👍🙏
As usual, Jeremy, wonderful videography! I enjoyed going over the tonnage/powered axle calculations too. A couple of questions for you; first, how many of those grain cars had to be tied down with hand brakes during the cut-in, and second, are the helper units required to adhere to the down-grade speed limit running light back to Oakridge? By the way, you've got the coolest job on earth...
Very informative ! I always listen to the Eugene Railroad on my Broadcastify scanner. I do not have a real scanner lol but i do flash headlights and wave at trains !
I have a question. suppose there are 54 cars; you could link them all together with three engines at the front. That would put the maximum tension right at the front of the train. Alternatively you could have [18 cars+engine then 18 cars+engine then 18 cars+engine]. That would reduce the maximum tension because the pulling tension is distributed rather than concentrated at the front. Do they do that?
Some one needs to run those engine through a good high presser washing machine. Does one engine control all of the engnes on the train? Thanks for a Very good video. (Ranger-12. Mississippi Gulf Coast, USA)
On certain mountain grades and Subdivisions, when the temperature gets cold during winter and sometimes fall and spring months, UP at least puts a Winter TPA in effect that is lower then the normal amount. I work over the mountain on Donner Summit in CA and the TPA here is 150 normally but during winter months or when it gets cold for a few days it goes down to 140 TPA which requires more power. But simple rain or slick conditions doesn't change need for power
Do they always notch 8 the DPU and notch 5 or 6 the lead loco's? Or are they the same? Some other videos the DPU is just singing a long and the lead loco's are like part throttle and that is on a flat 3 or 4 mile long track area.
It depends on the territory, if you are going through dips, spots with lesser grades(flat spots), Cresting Grade, or up or down hill, it changes if you want the train stretched or not. When going up something like the Sierras at 2.6%, everything is at notch 8 because your only going 11 mph so it is naturally stretched out. Say you are going in and out of dips or on flats, your head will be in notch 2 or 3 while your rear or cut in is at 1 to keep it stretched out. The only time we want it together is heading downgrade so our air is close and we don't get roll in
These are manned helpers correct and not mid-train DPUs? Do they go back as light power or wait for a train needing helpers going the other direction. Real good video. Great channel.
Sorry about that! So Cut-ins are locomotives that are in the train somewhere cut in the middle. And string line refers to too much stress or pressure in the middle of a sharp curve that results in the middle of the train coming off the rails and pulling in a straight line usually toppling the cars on their side.
Unfortunately no, we do the calculations before leaving and then we reach out to helper crews letting them know we need them or not and if they need to cut it and where but we do the calculations and decisions
why are the cut ins not made before the train gets partway up what ever hill it has to clime? That would make more sense to me, but I am just a dum Canadian
Don’t sell yourself short! The hill in the beginning is manageable, and in order for the helper crew to have time to help two trains-(the UP’s goal) they need to start pushing at the spot where the train cannot go any further without the help.
1/2 track speed? LOL I was praying not to stall. Try 5 mph.... with AC units I had the confidence not to get into short time reading; DC motors I might start burning up traction motors. I never had to tackle "mountain" grade trackage..... heavy grade was plenty enough "worry" for me. Uphill slow down hill fast.
What I found interesting is what you said near the beginning of this video. "This is a Canadian train", hauling wheat grain to a place in California. Now why are there 99 car loads of wheat grain going to California? Most wheat grain goes to the milling plants in the central plains states to be made into flour. So we have to summarize that this Canadian wheat is going to be shipped across the Pacific Ocean. But to where? Japan? South Korea, or maybe some to Australia and New Zealand? Remember, the amount of wheat on this train is more than enough to feed all of Canada, so the Canadians are not using the wheat for themselves, but are selling it. We don't need it. We produce more than enough for ourselves, in the "bread basket" states. Interesting comment and an informative one at that. And by the way, those Canadian locos look like the RR company runs the piss out of them. Probably older looking for their time.
That’s nothing I took a 20,000 ton train down (Tennessee Pass in Colorado a 3.6%grade )20 miles.2x2x1.... Taconite train 110 cars went to a Steel mill in UTAH...
So it sounds like what is being said means I doubt I would make it on the mathematics part without LOTS of STUDYING! That's OK though, because I play a mean electric guitar without ever having a LESSON! So much for music and locomotives! I guess I'll have to travel by automobile instead of on the rails!
Has anyone seen the "Willow Tree Pushers" filmed in Australia ? Interesting to see the rear pushers don't lock their loco's to the train they are pushing. When no longer required, they simply power down and the train they are pushing simply keeps going. Then the pushers return to the bottom of the mountain to get ready for the next one.
Great video thanks. Has anyone watched the video from Down under called "willowtree pushers" ? Video quality not the best but they connect at the bottom and dont lock the couplers. They push hard and at the right time simply power down and the train being pushed just keeps on going and the pusher roll back down the hill to wait for the next one.
Great videos, and better, understanding how and where power is placed within a train beyond what type, grade and more!! Grew up near Salem in the SP days. Manned helpers required a lot of experience to coordinate with the head-end to first start a train on a grade without breaking a knuckle or worse! Old friend was a conductor out of Dunsmuir that made trips over the steep Siskiyou Pass -- fixing blown air hoses and then broken knuckles in pouring rain to make it up and over to Medford -- intense railroading!! Love your channel!!!!
Thank you very much!
A great place to camp if you like to listen to engines and river rapids is Black Canyon Forest Service campground, Willamette National Forest, between Dexter and Oakridge. The trains going up that grade on the other side of the Willamette River are at full throttle (my opinion) and it is fun to be awakened in the night to hear the Diesel engines working hard….
Nicely done! Good info and radio chatter. Thanks for coming in today, Joel! It wouldn't be the Cascades without hearing him on the radio.
Haha absolutely!! Thanks a lot!
Great video with good information about the helper additions, thank you. In the original consist, before the helper addition, the engineer is in control of the DPUs, after the helpers are added who is in control of the helpers? It is very interesting to see how many crews it takes to get a train such as this from Canada to it's final destination. A train crew is made up of two people, the engineer and the brakeman, where does a fireman come in to play in today's railroad crew? It also appeared to me that the helper consist had a man in the lead unit and a man in the end unit, is that common. Thanks again for making such interesting videos, I love getting to know more about how things work on the railroad, just an old retired truck diesel mechanic who loves trains.
The helper crew controls the helpers. But the head-end driver controls the pushers.
@thrustertech, a train crew consists of an engineer and conductor
I saw a helper set that included a CN engine get cut into the middle of one of the BNSF grain trains at that very spot a few days ago. The consist of the train going up the mountain was BNSF-BNSF x CN-UP-UP-UP x BNSF-CP. Not every day you see all 4 Class Is in western North America represented on one train.
True! That’s an excellent consist. The CN in the mid helpers was an anomaly. It was inserted off a work train when a UP broke down in Oakridge. It costs the company extra to use it in the interim for this service. Thanks for mentioning it!
Awesome job, enjoyed the narrative which was spot on. I like your comment about Joel, I must remind you I live in Oregon. 😂😂😂
Lol! Well, you e placed me in a difficult situation…
Fantastic video! I’m glad RUclips recommended me your channel, great narration and awesome shots!
Wayside, I appreciate it!
Wow, another great video with tons of information. They are all treasures!
Nice video from the procedere with the helpers. Greetings from Berlin/ Germany. Sven
Sven, it’s an honor! Thanks for the greetings from Germany! Be well friend!
Interesting video. I’m figuring the tonnage to be cut in behind the helpers at 7,115 tons…we’ll see. Good job again.
Steve; you also nailed the amount! Nicely done!
Your knowledge and camera skills are entertaining.
I appreciate that!
Great informative video thanks for sharing all the info.
I noticed not many people did the math for the helper's! Same here i said forget that!
😂😂😂
nice tutorial very interesting, thanks
The engineers don't wave from the trains anymore, not like they did back in 1954!
Killer video man great job wow 🎉
Great video. Helpers Play a Very Important part on Subs ALL around the US & Canada. Without them, Power Requirements would definitely need to be Updated. 👍🙏
Well said!
Excellent video Thank you, heaps of information !!
I cut in a few helpers in my time with the SP and UP RR
I see quite a few engines with burned paint. I'm assuming fuel leak fires. I frequently drive over the rail yard where the coal trains refuel.
Great video.....very informative.
Damn, I didn't know there was going to math, I need a beer. LMAO
😂😂sorry man!
As usual, Jeremy, wonderful videography! I enjoyed going over the tonnage/powered axle calculations too. A couple of questions for you; first, how many of those grain cars had to be tied down with hand brakes during the cut-in, and second, are the helper units required to adhere to the down-grade speed limit running light back to Oakridge? By the way, you've got the coolest job on earth...
¹
Very informative ! I always listen to the Eugene Railroad on my Broadcastify scanner. I do not have a real scanner lol but i do flash headlights and wave at trains !
I thinks I am listening to a set up of helpers now .
Love the UP!
I have a question. suppose there are 54 cars; you could link them all together with three engines at the front. That would put the maximum tension right at the front of the train.
Alternatively you could have [18 cars+engine then 18 cars+engine then 18 cars+engine]. That would reduce the maximum tension because the pulling tension is distributed rather than concentrated at the front. Do they do that?
Some one needs to run those engine through a good high presser washing machine. Does one engine control all of the engnes on the train? Thanks for a Very good video. (Ranger-12. Mississippi Gulf Coast, USA)
I would like some clean engines! No the cut in helpers are separate and run manually.
Do weather conditions have an effect on the number of helper engines?
On certain mountain grades and Subdivisions, when the temperature gets cold during winter and sometimes fall and spring months, UP at least puts a Winter TPA in effect that is lower then the normal amount. I work over the mountain on Donner Summit in CA and the TPA here is 150 normally but during winter months or when it gets cold for a few days it goes down to 140 TPA which requires more power. But simple rain or slick conditions doesn't change need for power
You can tell which CP units have been run through the sprayer in coal service
Argentina lo ve al Tren más largo del MUNDO Q BENDICION EE.UU.❤😅❤😅❤
Excellent video…..SUBED ! 🇺🇸
Semper Fi!!
Do they always notch 8 the DPU and notch 5 or 6 the lead loco's? Or are they the same? Some other videos the DPU is just singing a long and the lead loco's are like part throttle and that is on a flat 3 or 4 mile long track area.
I notice when I see trains heading westbound over the Sierra's from Reno, the DPU's have always sounded louder than the lead locomotives.
Same as Montana Rail Link vids also where DPU s are seen screaming in the middle while the lead sounds like a local bopping along….
It depends on the territory, if you are going through dips, spots with lesser grades(flat spots), Cresting Grade, or up or down hill, it changes if you want the train stretched or not. When going up something like the Sierras at 2.6%, everything is at notch 8 because your only going 11 mph so it is naturally stretched out. Say you are going in and out of dips or on flats, your head will be in notch 2 or 3 while your rear or cut in is at 1 to keep it stretched out. The only time we want it together is heading downgrade so our air is close and we don't get roll in
These are manned helpers correct and not mid-train DPUs? Do they go back as light power or wait for a train needing helpers going the other direction. Real good video. Great channel.
In replies to other comments, the OP says they are manned.
The helpers deadhead to the next train that needs help.
Good old CP rail..
I'm a long-time railfan, but I didn't understand a lot of the lingo in this video. Terms like "cut ins" and "string lining" went over my head.
Sorry about that! So Cut-ins are locomotives that are in the train somewhere cut in the middle. And string line refers to too much stress or pressure in the middle of a sharp curve that results in the middle of the train coming off the rails and pulling in a straight line usually toppling the cars on their side.
I assume the train crew would be given the cut in info from the dispatcher. Is this correct? I know nothing about communication happens on the rails.
Unfortunately no, we do the calculations before leaving and then we reach out to helper crews letting them know we need them or not and if they need to cut it and where but we do the calculations and decisions
why are the cut ins not made before the train gets partway up what ever hill it has to clime? That would make more sense to me, but I am just a dum Canadian
Don’t sell yourself short! The hill in the beginning is manageable, and in order for the helper crew to have time to help two trains-(the UP’s goal) they need to start pushing at the spot where the train cannot go any further without the help.
3 to hold em 4 to roll em.
You can see that He got more speed.. now if I can only do that with my model railroad on a 2.8% grade.
1/2 track speed? LOL I was praying not to stall. Try 5 mph.... with AC units I had the confidence not to get into short time reading; DC motors I might start burning up traction motors. I never had to tackle "mountain" grade trackage..... heavy grade was plenty enough "worry" for me. Uphill slow down hill fast.
Eh, gravity will get you down amiright! Lol, yessir! Yeah, we need good speed to not choke out in the tunnels.
How often do these CP grain trains come through to CA?
It seems there is one every third day or so
Hello. Klasse Video. 🛤️🚅🚌🚌🚌🚌🚌👍👍👍👍👍. FIM👮🚂🤚
Great video, Jeremy! I'm guessing the fuel capacity on a road locomotive is about 4,000 gallon or thereabouts?
5000 on C44 and 45s
Thank you! And he’s right, 5,000 gallons for these modern locos.
What I found interesting is what you said near the beginning of this video. "This is a Canadian train", hauling wheat grain to a place in California. Now why are there 99 car loads of wheat grain going to California? Most wheat grain goes to the milling plants in the central plains states to be made into flour. So we have to summarize that this Canadian wheat is going to be shipped across the Pacific Ocean. But to where? Japan?
South Korea, or maybe some to Australia and New Zealand? Remember, the amount of wheat on this train is more than enough to feed all of Canada, so the Canadians are not using the wheat for themselves, but are selling it. We don't need it. We produce more than enough for ourselves, in the "bread basket" states. Interesting comment and an informative one at that. And by the way, those Canadian locos look like the RR company runs the piss out of them. Probably older looking for their time.
Thanks a lot! Yeah, it’s a good question!
l
So do the cut-in helpers run in dpu mode?
No, they are manned helpers. But the dpu at the rear is still controlled by the head end engineer.
Good stuff my man!😅
Thanks for the visit!
That’s nothing I took a 20,000 ton train down (Tennessee Pass in Colorado a 3.6%grade )20 miles.2x2x1.... Taconite train 110 cars went to a Steel mill in UTAH...
Wow! Must’ve used air to control that!
Between 10 to 12 lbs of air..
Dumb question, what's The difference between an intermodal and manifest train?
Intermodal: A train that carries shipping containers and/or truck trailers
Manifest: A train that carries everything else.
Let me Google that for you.
Ex SP at 09:58.
4555 thousand tons
So it sounds like what is being said means I doubt I would make it on the mathematics part without LOTS of STUDYING! That's OK though, because I play a mean electric guitar without ever having a LESSON! So much for music and locomotives! I guess I'll have to travel by automobile instead of on the rails!
We all have different talents! I play trumpet, but wouldn’t have a clue about guitar. You made me laugh!
Kilt, quilt. Those road crews are weird.
Too much diesel fumes
ANTON JAG ÄLSKAR UNION PAIFIC
Has anyone seen the "Willow Tree Pushers" filmed in Australia ? Interesting to see the rear pushers don't lock their loco's to the train they are pushing. When no longer required, they simply power down and the train they are pushing simply keeps going. Then the pushers return to the bottom of the mountain to get ready for the next one.
Sounds interesting! Old school cut and run on the fly helpers. That’s how they did it in many places here back in the day too
NS has helper link equipped locos that can cut on the fly. They need to stop to couple up though
Great video thanks. Has anyone watched the video from Down under called "willowtree pushers" ? Video quality not the best but they connect at the bottom and dont lock the couplers. They push hard and at the right time simply power down and the train being pushed just keeps on going and the pusher roll back down the hill to wait for the next one.
Interesting! I’ll check it out
Southern Pacific did it better. Basic cut-in helper formula: Shove two-thirds and pull one third of the weight.
If so, too bad they failed as a company! I wish SP could have remained-but at least I get to work on their route.