Episode 125 Making Guitars with a CNC Machine: The Dark Secret of Using a CNC Machine
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2018
- Before you pull the trigger and spend your hard earned money on a CNC machine, there's a secret you need to know that could affect your decision.
Видеоклипы
The most educational information to build a guitar, so simple,yet so necessary.
It makes total sense, proto is the way to go. I too do my designs first in illustrator, and yes I have thought to make one off guitars with CNC, or maybe just the templates. Just so you know I follow your channel and I am grateful for sharing your knowledge with us aspiring CNC builders. No design, no guitar. Thanks!
"If you can edit g-code [to work on your setup], you can write your own." Great point here.
Excellent advice, as always.
Thanks again for your video's Chris !! :)
Never a truer word spoken Chris.....
I think you just saved me a lot of money and time. Thanks!
Glad I could help!
Thanks again!
Hi Chris lol. Your videos are great.
Thanks Chris, You are very practical in your approach to build guitars and doing your videos. I just discovered your RUclips channel a few days ago and I am enjoying your content very much. As I have stated I am new to your channel so please forgive me for asking a question that you have covered in one of your videos. What is the brand/model of the CNC machine your use and what software do your use for modeling and machining your guitars? I spent 42 years building die cast tooling and a lot of that was engineering and CNC programming. It would be great to build guitars. Thanks for the great videos and keep up the great work.
I am currently using a CNC machine of my own design. For software, I use Adobe Illustrator for 2D, Rhino for 3D and MeshCam for toolpaths. My CNC machine is connected to my laptop through Arduino and grbl.
You're absolutely right, I've set my machine up to cut multiple identical bodies or necks after first prototyping each several times with inexpensive woods. CNC is not useful for the one-off custom builder, unless you have no time constrains......but who doesn't have those?? Thanks Chris.
Thanks for this video, it was super informative! I've been wanting to start getting my feet wet with a CNC. I'm a total newbie when it comes to CNC machines. Any recommendations on where I should start with a CNC, brand/size/features? Just looking for something reliable to learn on that I can produce one-off guitar builds with. Thanks so much!
Inventables X-Carve. It's a great way to get started without spending a fortune*
*A "fortune" is subjective.
@@HighlineGuitars Awesome! Thank you so much! I was looking at those. Yeah definitely not trying to spend a "fortune" on something to learn on haha. Love your content, keep it up!
I agree with the prototyping aspect. That just make sense. However, I disagree with the notion that doing a one off guitar is not suitable for CNC. Take for example an arched top LP style guitar body. Is there some other machining process that can accomplish this task as well as a CNC router? Another thought is this, you really cannot say for 100% confidence that you won't, at some point, make another of that model somewhere down the line, say one, two even five years down the road.
in 2009 My company ( BML inc.) Purchased a large, heavy duty CNC machine in order to build guitars.. It was an unmitigated Failure. the expense ( $60K) was totally unjustified for the number of units (75) that we ended up producing, and the machine was neither faster OR more accurate than my building by hand with a solid Fixture system and standard tooling.
that said I need to point out a few specifics.
1. we had 7 radically different models of guitar that we wanted to produce, and very few shared parts between those models.
2. we were being hit by wild swings in customer demand for each of the different models. It was not feasible to make batches of models, which we discovered hat it forced us to spend more money than profit, on building batch blanks for each model. and the required storage for these blanks became unmanageable for the amount of space we had. within a year we discovered that we had over 90K in blank inventory with only 20K of that inventory resulting in actual sales.
so while it seemed perfectly logical to think that if your gonna build one, go on and build 6 and store the other 5.. that became a huge waste of money, because those extra 5 simply didn't sell in a timely manner.
3. the CNC itself while it could make a complete guitar worth of parts in about an hour . using it to make 1 guitars worth of parts was extremely wasteful on electricity, tools, programming time, material waste, and accuracy. we had too many 1 off guitars that failed the basic fit test this was later determined that we had purchased a machine that did not have tolerances good enough to do what we were attempting to use it for. that was a design issue of the machine and a knowledge deficit on our part. we ended up selling off the machine for $9K to a signage shop who is doing fine with it now.
4 after doing a full 5 years worth of research and going to visit other guitar makers shops and seeing the machines they were using and the quality of the guitars produced, I feel very confident in saying that the quality or lack thereof, of the instruments, was most definitely the work of the Luther and NOT the machine.
5. a CNC Robot router IS NOT a good or inexpensive replacement for real Luthiery experience. and while a good many people have made some fine looking instruments with them. Most of them fell woefully short in the categories of Tone and Play-ability.
CNC is nothing more than a tool with a very steep learning curve and expensive side issues.
it will not make you either wealthy, OR a great Luthier.
that said, I just purchase all the parts to build a new machine to my own design. Perhaps that, along with all my research about the best ways to utilize a CNC in a Luthiery shop setting, I can create a system that is better suited to building real instruments, and not just carbon copies of G.S.O.s (Guitar Shaped Objects).
Your candid, genuine, and honest feelings have not fallen on deaf ears. I am currently doing the research into the viability of guitar, pickup, and amplifier design and building! This is due in part to the fallout of the live sound industry and the subsequent hardship it has presented to my business. I am one of the lucky ones!!!! I am fortunate to be able to re-invest and change direction without having to give up on the core business that I have been doing for the past 17 years!! I will get to continue doing what I love. In the meantime, while things are slow (nonexistent) I can focus on new ventures and income streams. My experience in a few things is much like yours. It is not the tool itself, it is how you use it.
The idea that a machine cutting out a guitar body changes the tone is the dumbest thing I have ever read and that's saying a lot since this is the RUclips comment section.
Thanks for the detailed reply! Having lots of one-off guitars and not having interchangeable parts would indeed make things tricky, though this line seemed to be the biggest issue by far: "we had purchased a machine that did not have tolerances good enough to do what we were attempting to use it for." Not having the right tool for the job is brutal.
I'm about to put together an OpenBuilds CNC machine in order to make guitar bodies and necks. How long does it take to CNC both sides of a body, and how long to do both sides of a neck without factoring in the time it takes to setup the toolpaths, generate g-code, position wood, zero bits etc. Just the time it takes to do both sides while cutting/milling. And, do you have a video where you talk about how to test out a prototype? What is everything you check for to make sure it's a functional design? I'd really love to hear you talk about this.
3-4 hours to carve a body. 2-3 hours to carve a neck. 90 minutes to make a fretboard. Guitars aren’t complex enough to require a prototype. I know what will work from experience.
Can you cnc a les paul body and neck with a flame or curly top body and head stock and hard maple neck. Medium jumbo frets 24 fret
That’s not the sort of project I would ever be interested in doing.
Thanks Chris. Something I've often pondered. Do you stay with the piece when the CNC machine is going, or do you go off and busy yourself somewhere else?
I stay with the machine.
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks
Mine has had a crash 2 or 3 times, coming back to a surfacing bit buried a half inch into my slab and smoking due to heat buildup. Dont leave a machine unattended.
Were you utilizing the X Carve before? Why the change? I am by no means a full time maker but I “dabble” and was considering the X Carve for all the necessary 2-D routing. Thoughts?
your truly better off to learn how to rout with traditional tools, templates and fixtures, than to rely on the incredibly time consuming programming of a CNC.
and the X-Carve system is REALLY not well matched to building guitars. that thing is a total waste of money if your ultimate goal is to build guitars with it.
Understandably G-Code for your CNC machine would not necessarily work on mine. However, you could sell STL or DXF files and MAKE SOME MONEY with your designs, particularly if you only plan on making 2 or 3 models. You probably could make a lot more money for your proprietary designs than you could by selling a couple of guitars.
Chris does sell his plans, in very detailed PDFs. It is how I discovered his work and these helpful videos. The problems with selling the DFX files are all over this video. You will get your money's worth is you want his designs, by purchasing the PDF, and modeling them for yourself with your changes and innovations, but selling is files would remove his protection for his intellectual property. There PDFs aren't a license to profit on his property, but it would be hard to argue that he still owns his intellectual property after the first customer shares it his models.
So would you say it is more cost and time efficient for hobbyist who make one offs to use the traditional methods rather than CNC?
All I make are one-offs and if I had to go back to traditional methods, I'd quit.
What happened to the X-Carve 3D Carving Machine that you used?
I still have it.
how much was the machine you have? What would it cost for me to get started? I want to cnc necks for personal use. I have bought dozens and dozens of necks from warmoth and am getting tired of handing them my money and they dont have options i want and charge for just about every option you can imagine plus they take a long time. i have built many guitars from scratch by hand and have a computer science degree so i know i'm capable of this
ruclips.net/video/bVKWS9R-Ylw/видео.html
Hi! I am a mechanical engineering student and I am writing an article about electric guitar design, can I use a frame of your video in it?
Yes, you can. Thanks for asking first!
I would love to see your work flow for 3D modeling guitars. I like your videos but they are often so high level and lacking meat. I think most of us already understand why you would "prototype" or a better term in my opinion is proof of concept. When I saw the video title I was excited. After watching...not so much. You've created some great content around finishing. I would love to see something similar around the modeling and carving. Thanks.
On the contrary, based on the questions I get from viewers, most of the people who watch my videos have zero knowledge of CNC. That is who I made this episode for. If I did some videos on how I build my 3D models, they would only appeal to the people who use the exact same software. There are a huge number of different CAD/CAM options out there and because they all work differently, the way I work may not be useful to someone interested in using a totally different workflow. If the companies who make the software I use were to sponsor me, I'd be more willing to do a comprehensive video tutorial.
@@HighlineGuitars Chris your reply sounds defensive and I did not intend to put you on the defensive. I'm simply giving you feedback about what information is important to me. I'm just learning to develop a workflow for modeling guitar bodies and I was curious to see what yours involves. 3D modeling software is all pretty similar and techniques don't differ that much (i.e. lofts, extrudes, sculpting). If this video was intended for those with zero CNC knowledge then they still have zero knowledge as the video didn't disclose anything about what you do. Perhaps you're looking for views, likes and subs without really sharing anything proprietary. If you want to keep what you do private I can respect that. You've worked hard to learn what you do. But don't advertise with a teaser and then fail to deliver. That's just frustrating.
@Chris Young Please don’t assume to know how anyone else receives these videos, thats arrogant on your part.
Everyone watches Highline Guitars videos for their own reasons and takes from them what they want to.
I personally have zero CNC knowledge regards how they are programmed etc and probably never will but this video was informative on the higher level and thats good for me.
Perhaps you should make the effort to post a video on what you do and can get the feedback you crave to help you progress and relieve some of your frustration?
@@br_44300 Hi Andy. Did you read my post? "I'm simply giving you feedback on what's important to me." I'm assuming Chris takes the time to create and post videos because he wants people to view them, like them and sub (I'm guessing he would like more than 21K). My feedback is nothing more than constructive criticism and might gain him more subs. I'm not a CNC expert either that's why I'm watching videos with titles like the one on this one. But I was disappointed that it really offered no information other than the obvious which is test with a scrap piece of wood. I'm honestly interested in Chris' workflow for modeling the bodies but for some reason he doesn't want to share that information. I think he sells the templates (not sure if that's his site or not) and maybe he doesn't want to cannibalize that business and I can understand that. The point he uses that all software is different and by showing how he does it wouldn't help anyone is insincere IMO. There are hundreds of videos on 3d modeling using various applications and most techniques are the same from package to package. Seeing his workflow, regardless of what software he uses would be helpful to me. Sorry to ruffle feathers but I'm not the bad guy. Chris' work is wonderful and I have great respect for artistic taste, his engineering skills and his workmanship. I would certainly pay for one of his guitars, I like his work that much. BTW Chris' older videos are very informative and detailed.
@@chrisyoung8062 totally AGREE!!
I just bought an X Carve 1000mm unit for sign making and now I am being asked to make Guitars, I would like to try but it scare the bee gee bees out of me, can anybody recommend a good starting point on this.
Inventables has a forum that would be the best place to start.
What model CNC router are you using?
In this video, I used a CNC machine I designed and built myself. The assembly manual is available on www.eguitarplans.com/
Currently, I am using an X-Carve Pro.
Hey, you know what? I bought that computer my self!😂
I like to make my own designs
So, what I get from this video, is I should go to college and learn to program in g code, before ever considering the X-carve.
Where I can buy that machine?
Scroll to the bottom of this page: www.eguitarplans.com/
What CNC is that?
I made it myself. My own design.
Yeah wow, Im looking at building guitars at home and have little cnc knowledge but i can see how a piece of good wood can easily be ruined by crappy cnc, Learn u cnc dont use some one elses codes.
@scarmyguitar