You know what's ironic? The original Cars movie has a whole point about the natural simplistic beauty of Radiator Springs being ignored and forgotten due to the more modern and convenient Interstate being built. The movie's main theme is to slow down and appreciate the hidden gems in life instead of just racing past them. Yet Disney here is destroying a natural hidden gem that is the same type of area that the Cars movie teaches us to love in order to build a couple of rides based on the Cars franchise.
it's a plan made for consoomers with tiktok brainrot that think modern disney products are palatable, expecting them to see the irony is pretty unrealistic the thing the execs don't understand is that the brainrot products don't have staying power-- and they're more expensive, tom sawyer's island has operated to maximum effect every day since it opened completely for free retaining the totality of its charm for anyone with the wherewithal to appreciate it villain's land is a great idea with lots of room for interesting ideas which could even be coupled with ip to enhance the experience of either, imagine that they create a villain the gather the villain's and the whole land is based on a story that they want to take over the magic kingdom, the view from the liberty bell would be incredible- people would ride just to get a special view, i mean they could hide a giant mickey (if they even do that anymore), but instead we're just getting a generic ride based on an already faded ip
@@YorickKnowledgeI mostly agree, just except for the implication that people “these days” who enjoy the Modern Content are simply less intelligent. It’s always more complicated than that. Boomers telling us millennials that we needed to just stop playing video games and get off the internet certainly didn’t help us prevent our current attention span problems. It’s gonna take something more constructive than that.
What are they thinking?? Tom Sawyers Island and the Riverboat are two of the most laid back areas of the Magic Kingdom!! When it is super hot and busy at the park these are two great places to relax and get away from the crowds. I also think it is a very expensive and I am sure long refurbishment since the river has to be removed somehow. 😠😞😔😡
Are they ignoring what the giant body of water does to the ambient temperature of the park around it? Frontierland will be so much more intolerably hot without a nice scenic swamp cooler.
This. This right here. I was born and raised in Florida and when I tell you this state is only getter hotter every year with no end in sight, Disney really should not be chucking out opportunities to cool the atmosphere like trees and bodies of water around the park. This is a problem with many Floridian theme parks, not just Disney, designers really don’t prioritize opportunities for shade like they should. I don’t care that I can’t see the skyline of the park I’d rather not get heat stroke
@@oliviab4079 It's not just a Florida issue. Cedar Point has maybe all of twenty trees left in the entire park and not a single water fountain. And to add insult to injury all of the seating areas with shade are smoking sections.
All they see is $$$$$. Common sense and park flow be damned. I love Disney and have taken my family once or twice a year for many years but once 2020 hit, Disney the company lost its way in all possible ways and raised prices to FU levels. Not to mention, for all these new lands coming, the announcement came at least 2 years too late. I'm thoroughly disappointed and disgusted by alot of these choices by Disney. Change is great and inevitable, but Disney has turned it all into a $hitshow.
@@joey2894 They can certainly use the portion that was turned into that unused parking lot. They could also probably figure out ways of building around the habitat without violating the terms of the deal. I'm not personally opposed to a cars mountain car ride, but the placement of it is the stupidest place possible.
Thinking back, I realize that I took for-granted that Tom Sawyer Island and the river would always be there; they felt like real land features, which just coincidentally had a theme-park built around them.
Michael Eisner graduated from college with an English degree, he intuitively understood the importance of storytelling and appointed architects to sit with him on the Board of Directors at Disney, the result was some of the best world class experiences in the theme park industry. Today, Disney is run by myopic MBAs obsessed with cutting costs, jacking up prices and slapping Disney IP everywhere with mediocre results. No wonder the guest experience is getting worse by the year.
Honestly Eisner had such grand ideas and we got Hollywood studios and california adventure out of it. And animal kingdom. Like.. holy heck. After him its just been lackluster and feels like they're just now riding the coattails of the past, and now being overshadowed by their competitors like universal who I am start to prefer over them.
Eisner had his problems, (chiefly an obsession with the show-business when it came to theme parks, and a later second-guessing an attempt to cut budgets) but he undoubtedly cared about storytelling, and I think it's overlooked how well he got along with and embellished Imagineering. Compare that to Iger, a guy who's first priority is public image, and literally sees the parks as IP vessels
OK but this might deserve the title for the WORST of the changes. What makes Disney different from other parks is the scenery, remove the river and it'll become closer to another other theme park, a giant concrete slab with rides on it.
What made Disney different was cleanliness, customer service, original attractions and that Disney magic touch. All long gone. They can bulldoze the lot for all I care.
About Poseidon’s statement on the unnecessary changes the Disney parks being damaging to the company in the long term, it’s far more likely that the complete death knell of the Walt Disney company is going to come far sooner than he thinks, like in a few weeks, two months or even a whole year later given the rapidly growing number of controversies scandals and lawsuits that Disney is facing.
@@MarshalMarrs-eu9yh yep you’re correct. I mean this kind of stuff would’ve been interesting to see if Disney quest actually worked and was spread out across America but to do it in the theme parks , which is the money maker these days is crazy.
The island is so chill and such a nice spot to rest from the park, Disney is literally getting rid of every calm corner in their now stressful parks and it’s both concerning and infuriating, and that’s not to get started in the historical value being lost 💀
@@EuroMIX2 This right here. They don't want people to find peaceful places to idle: they want them in lines for rides, meet and greets, or at the shops spending $$$. The more crowded the lines are, the more fast passes they can sell.
I’m so tired of Disney’s trend of replacing things instead of expanding on their giant plot of land and numerous abandoned showrooms that also take up space.
@@YorickKnowledgethe problem with building over the hotel is that it's in the back of the park with all of the employee parking and show buildings, so there would be a buncha logistics to hide where the rides actually are.
I know, I cannot wait until the afterlife when I'll finally get to build the Disneyland I really want including a Treasure Planet and Meet the Robinsons ride, The Emperor's New Groove Splash Mountain included and other Disney rides that never made the cut.
Extremely cynical to see Disney fans go "Oh, no one uses it anyways". It's a river, you look at it, feel the breeze, you don't **use** it. Seeing park goers think like corporate board members is extremely sad. It's all about capacity or popularity, or IP maximizing. Where's the soul?
Yeah, modern Disney simply does not have the passion like that from Walts era. Not to say there isn't some good work being done but I'd say it lacks the depth with their themeing and ideas like shown in these videos.
It was so underhanded the way they went about it. Got everyone at D23 hyped with the Cars concept art that looked like it would be right behind Big Thunder… then they release the full concept art quietly the day after D23 ended. It’s like they KNEW there would be pushback, they just didn’t want to get booed offstage.
@@EdwardandJessicaMiller You are correct overall, they def hid the location… a bit. However, if you look deeply at the first art they did release, and the orientation of the Big Thunder buttes in background, it was clear they were plunking this new thing right in the middle of the river. But they were not direct about it, they knew the cheers in the hall would become boos.
to make a path that gets behind Big Thunder Mountain would need either Big Thunder Mountain to close or Rivers of America to close and Rivers of America is used the least so fewer people hurt
The dangerous precedent set by monetizing queues is that now management is judging every attraction based on the potential to sell Lightning Lanes. Any attractions that get little or no wait are possibly endangered.
What I really despise about the Disney leadership is that all these "renovations" are effectively expensive vandalism. They are tearing up timeless, artistic components of the parks for short-term gimmicks. In 10 years, we'll still be suffering from the lost attractions, with no way of ever getting them back.
Haven’t watched the video yet but- This is one of my girlfriends and I’s favorite places on property, hell, anywhere for that matter We visit this island almost every weekend, we love to get away from the crowds, we love to watch the wildlife. We’ve been watching 2 frogs grow for months now and they are adorable. We love exploring the old fort and feeling like we are transported back to a simpler time. Not every inch of magic kingdom needs to be filled with waiting in lines. It’s these “little things” that set the Disney parks apart of other amusement parks! It hurts I’ll never be able to take my kids to enjoy the liberty belle, Tom Sawyer island, or the shooting arcade. Absolutely classic Americana staples.
It was one of my favorites too ... for over 50 years, since it was all new and I was 7 years old visiting for the first time carrying my Raggedy Ann doll around. These are the things my son and I did during the days while we waited for the crowds to thin out and extra magic hours to kick in so we could ride the attractions that usually had long lines.
Even my mediocre local theme parks have water areas/features. Magic Kingdom is the most visited theme park in the world. I just can’t fathom that this is even a plan.
It baffles me. Florida has so much space. SO MUCH SPACE. Why rip out anything? Even Disneyland figured out how to keep their river! They have so much less space!
I always thought the point of buying all that land in FL so many decades ago was to allow for expansion, without having to sacrifice existing areas and attractions? I understand that the island and river is probably a huge cost in regards to upkeep, but lets all be honest, Disney charges a HUGE cost to the consumer for the privilege of the experience. So it kind of seems like a wash to me, but I guess Iger needs to make sure he gets another 60+ million bonus before leaving the next time. As that kind of many does come from giving fans what they want, but by given the share holders what they want.
I'm curious why Disney's management is so determined to remove these classic attractions. Why not just build a new park instead? It seems like they could preserve Disneyland and Disney World while still leaving room for more innovative and experimental ideas.
I think because they can't make merch off it its not profitable. Same with the citizens of main street/hollywood, gone because they can't make money from them.
I actually think that the current parks need to make a lot of changes and add additional attractions long before a 5th park is considered. It's just that current leadership should not be the ones making those decisions.
As I said in the pervious video's comments: The idea they would remove the river and island is absolutely insane. It is the major landmark that Frontier land is known for. It is the one thing I think of immediately when I think about that area.
Yeah Disney has completely forgotten who they are and what makes them special. If Pirates of the Caribbean never became a movie I am sure they would be debating taking that out by now too. It’s honestly heart breaking. They also do not look a t parks in the lease of a child anymore and rather a crazed Disney adult that will spend every penny they have at Disney. My nephews would absolutely love Tom Sawyer Island because it feels like a real place and that they are discovering new things for the first time. When children go to Disney now it’s much less about discovery and much more about waiting in lines and watching their parents struggle pay for the trip. It is honestly so sad watching Disney go down this path. I have such fond memories going as a child in the early 2000s now Disney world is so soulless and I feel like I am only being sold something around every corner. I miss when I would go to Disney to experience a NEW story from the rides. I treated the rides as their own “movie” that I got to live in for a moment. River Cruise, Mount Everest, Pirates, are all great examples of rides that tell their own original story. (Jungle cruise and pirates turned into movies but I digress) It’s honestly kinda scary to watch this happen too because I know once they do it it’ll be irreversible damage done. Lastly how can anyone look at that concept picture and think “wow that looks beautiful and well put together…. It looks a mess!
It's funny, as the concept art uses the buildings from Disneyland Paris too. It's like someone threw a prompt into an AI generator and they passed it off as concept art.
I agree 💯. Disney used to be for KIDS, big or small. We loved it as kids, and appreciated the imagination as adults. Now it's just a giant stressful money grab. Disney adults have changed into selfie monsters, willing to spend every dime they have on stupidity. Kids, or at least most of the ones I've had and met in the past 10yrs, could care less about the place anymore. It's too much, and nothing at all to them. Sad. Truly heartbreaking.
This is heartbreaking to me. Corny old man as I may be, visiting the island and taking the steam ship are always among my very favorite things to do at the Magic Kingdom. I feel like I'm losing an old friend...
Amen brother. I've been going to the park since 1980. it used to be a place to cool down and escape from reality. Now the entire Disney experience is about how much you can visit how fast for your money.
Glad you’re getting such a strong response! You raised so many good points, which I think have gotten lost in the conversation. One of the things that makes Disney different than other parks are sight lines: Looking across things, negative space, etc. We will lose all of this when the rivers go away and that little island in the middle, that we think about even if we don’t go to disappears. The relative calm and peace of the river and the boat going by will be replaced by cars constantly screaming around a racetrack… What’s interesting is they might have been able to actually build a ride that utilized the island but kept the river around it, think of how big thunder is handled in Paris Disneyland. All of this is to say that your thesis is correct. Disney doesn’t care about the aesthetics and beauty of their parks, they care about cramming stuff in in an effort to maximize profit. Even if in the long run, that doesn’t pan out.
The Hollywood Studios capacity problem doesn’t get talked about enough. I see way too many people justify GMR’s closure by saying that it wasn’t popular and was always a walk-on. Really, it’s not that it wasn’t popular, it just had great capacity. Runaway Railway basically slashed the ride’s capacity in half to where it’s always around an hour wait for a much shorter and extremely shallow experience. I’d hate to see the same thing happen to Magic Kingdom
@@PoseidonEntertainment It was. And I hate that I wasn’t even living in Orlando yet when it closed so I didn’t get a chance to ride it one more time for a proper goodbye before it closed
I haven't gotten to ride Runaway Railway yet, but I was expecting a ride of comparable length to the Great Movie Ride. I know it moves faster, so I was thinking maybe 10 minutes? Nope I was shocked when I looked it up and the ride is 5 minutes! The Great Movie Ride was about 25 minutes! In the same space! I don't mind waiting an hour for an attraction if it's long enough to be worth it. Waiting an hour for any 5 minute ride is really pushing my patience. Let's not even talk about Tron.
It feels kinda sad and dystopia to replace the blue sparkling water with more desert roads for a franchise that even in its own movie has a theme of appreciating the natural gems in life and stopping to smell the flowers. Spot on with this analysis P.E.
Grab him by his wallet. Tell the stock holders to go walk thru the parks. They'll understand it better than Igrrrr will. And then they'll understand why the stock is tanking year after year. Once they all dump their shares, and the stock is a penny stock, then maybe he'll get it. No bonus for bonehead ideas like Disney+. Make him feel the pain in a way he can understand - through his pockets.
@@gregorycerven3484 Don't know if you've read the recent NYT article about the new details of Chapek's ousting, Bob Iger is an even bigger baby than I thought, he already gets a much higher than average bonus and yet he would still constantly whine to the board about the CBS CEO got a much bigger bonus than him and how he wanted a bigger bonus. (His net worth was already well into the hundreds of millions by this point)
@@officialmonarchmusic we need to stop worshiping CEOs as visionary geniuses and recognize them for what they actually are; corporate shills that stumbled their way to the top spot.
Has anybody noticed that the overseas Disney/Universal parks seem to care a lot more about theming than American Disney/Universal Parks right now I could be wrong but it feels like the American parks are obsessed with shoving IP everywhere no matter the quality of the attraction/experience There are exceptions but I haven’t been impressed by a lot of attractions lately from the US Disney/Universal parks, while I actually been impressed with what Tokyo Disneyland has been doing and Universal with the Beijing park and Super Nintendo World. Sorry if this is long, maybe not structured well, and has nothing to do with the video, it’s just I feel like I’ve noticed this lately
i would say universal has really changed to invest that quality into their american parks. everything besides minions land and dreamworks land has been of great quality and care and that will only get better with epic universe. stuff like adding a waterfall to the donkey kong ride in epic where japan only has mist
@@bobbyswanson3498 I say Mega Movie parade and CineSational weren’t really that great just good CineSational has some good show scenes but I wasn’t impressed by it (didn’t feel like it had a story most of the time and it felt like it was just throwing random IPs mostly with no connection) it’s Universal’s best nighttime but I still find some of Disney’s firework shows better. Mega Movie Parade has good floats but everyone feels like the crew (outside of costume characters) are just standing there waving and moving around in a very static way, it’s decent I guess, but I wish there was more kinetic energy with the parade crew and maybe some moving parts on most of the floats like the giant T-Rex on the Jurassic World float That’s just my opinion
Well, you probably know that Tokyo Disney is owned by the OLC, and honestly, DLP isn't doing much better than the American parks right now. The best thing about Disneyland Park in Paris is that they've left the physical park alone, with very little changes in the last 20 years. The second park, which was a disaster from the start, is now going to be "Disney Adventure World" AKA the closest thing to a quintessentially Bob Iger park I feel we've ever had. Similarly, Hong Kong has had some theming issues in the past couple years, but Shanghai is still pretty new, and hasn't had too many changes. I feel like Tokyo is really the only one far and above in that department, for obvious reasons, and the other parks are either not better or themed or are only better for circumstantial reasons
Great video! You hit all the best points on why the island and river is important. Magic Kingdom, out of any Disney park in the world, needs more attractions that require no waiting and allow you to explore and be immersed. It's way too crowded of a park to just slap another E ticket ride with a Lightning Lane and call it a day. Plus, the river and island are a beautiful set piece that everyone enjoys as they're in that area of the park, even if they don't realize it. It adds nature, kinetic energy, and breathing room to the area, and it also cools down the air. Frontierland and Liberty Square are going to be a lot warmer without the water.
I can’t bring myself to watch the video, but I will comment. This decision is quite literally a travesty for the theme park industry. The death of free spaces in parks is getting worse and worse. This announcement is what made me finally decide I’m done with Disney for good. (This and the completely unthemed six flags coaster at shanghai)
I'm also done. They are actively and rapidly destroying the theme parks and it is unbearable to witness. The "fans" who are cheering it on are also repulsive to me and it's making me feel increasingly alienated and misanthropic. I have to avoid it altogether. Disneyland, Disney theme parks, and Imagineering was one of my greatest passions in life. This is a huge loss for me.
With each new horror announced from the Disney execs, I feel that much luckier to have been able to spend so much time at Magic Kingdom and EPCOT during the golden years of the first two decades.
Is Cars even that relevant a property anymore? The last movie came out like 8 years ago and didn't do all that great. I can see Cars replacing the ancient, dilapidated, stinky Tomorrowland Speedway, but can it really carry its own land?
Carsland at DCA is constantly packed with guests and it's a beautiful place. Not saying it belongs in Magic Kingdom, but Cars as a franchise is very popular and relevant.
I was just there for the Halloween Party on 9/24 and got a great picture of The Haunted Mansion across the water with the riverboat all lit up in the foreground. I can't imagine this not existing anymore and I'm glad I got that shot while I still can ❤
The loss of water will likely result in a hotter park. I was at Disneyland today and going from New Orleans Square and Frontierland to Toon Town and Tomorrowland (not by the lagoon, but by Space Mountain and Star Wars Launch Bay) the temperature seemed to go up at least 5 degrees. In Toon Town especially I could just feel the heat blasting me, reflecting off all the concrete buildings surrounding me. In Tomorrowland, I walked from the open sun to some shade of a tree (yes, there are indeed a few, haha) and the temp dropped dramatically. I walked back and forth a few times because the effect was so dramatic. Imagineering or Park Operations at both resorts needs a Heat Task Force lead by a Senior Vice President of Guest Comfort to fight for more water, shade, and heat-fighting features.
That's a point I should have brought up too, but yeah, it's so important in cooling down the park. The new center of Epcot is a miserable concrete heat trap.
Cars Land should go behind Big Thunder Mountain. I know it doesn't thematically tie to Frontierland in general but it could easily tie to just Big Thunder Mountain.
Why does it even need to go into Magic Kingdom in the first place? I think it would be a better fit at either Animal Kingdom where the off-road aspect would make more sense or as a rework of Test Track where the infrastructure and ride system necessary would already be there
@@Ultima64 My guess is providing something else other than Villains Land for family and kids demographic, although the one main attraction they say is thrilling so... mmm.. this expansion had three properties in the beginning and now is two. Putting that in Animal Kingdom would be worse because talking Cars world with an animal world even if the ride would be fun there and perfect logic atmosphere and terrain. Test Track is operated by Chevrolet so obvious why Disney never threw Cars IP into it!
People have become too obsessed with cramming ride after ride into their day, likely spurred on by the desire to "get their money's worth." However, this mentality misses what makes the parks truly great. Don't get me wrong, I love the rides. I try to get on as many rides as I can, but it is truly the things in between those rides that set Disney apart from the competition. My family used to have a policy to never wait more than 45 minutes for a ride (maybe an hour for one big ride). We would instead head to entertainment, a playground, an animal trail, etc. When I was a kid, I loved stopping by Tom Sawyer Island or Honey I Shrunk the Kids Playground. In fact, TSI was my favorite thing in MK. I had no connection to Tom Sawyer or the works of Mark Twain, but I came to love that island. The caves, the fort, all the small buildings and trails; it all felt like a place I was truly exploring. The fact that so many people ignore it is honestly sad. Do you really think your kid is going to have more fun waiting an hour and a half in line for a 2 minute attraction as opposed to having free reign to play and make their own adventures? The happiest kids I see at Disney parks are those on TSI and areas like it, but so many would rather spend the majority of their day in queue lines.
Wait until they build a fence around Robinson’s Family Tree House, put a character in there and start selling character meets and that’s the only way you can see it.
👏👏👏👏 EXACTLY. I've been saying that too. I stopped calling it the WALT DISNEY Company and WALT DISNEY World. To me its now the bob iger company and bob iger world.
Yep. I get it. Disney is a corporation at the end of the day but making everything so bland and corporate is directly against the original vision of DL and WDW
@@ryancarter2959 It's certainly possible to get too tied into the founder's vision, but Disney lately has fallen into the trap of straying too far from the founder's vision on things where Walt was right.
@@Steamfan11000%. Iger and his ilk will destroy the parks as long as they are around. It really looks like a hostile takeover is the best option. The only other outcome is the parks continue to be run into the ground, then the entire company goes bankrupt because Iger killed the golden goose and then shareholders finally demand regime change. Iger is an egomaniac and one of the worst CEOs of all time as he myopically believes he’s one of the best.
I've been to Disney World a couple times, and ultimately my single fondest memory is running around Tom Sawyer Island as a young kid. It's incredibly fun to explore in a way nothing else at the park can compare to IMO, and I'm really sad to see that it may be gone really soon.
I always enjoyed Tom Sawyer's Island. I is a place to escape when you or the kids have become overstimulated by the rest of the park. I suppose it don't sell any merch, but it has been around for 50+ years. We will see how relevant "Cars Land" is in 2080.
Disney and Big Mistakes go together hand in hand. Disney in recent years especially has been no stranger to making big mistakes and this is another one to go on that long list.
If they wanted an IP on the island so badly, just ditch Tom Sawyer and have it be an island featuring Disney bears like Baloo, Country Bears etc., it would be an ideal place to do meet and greets since it's so shaded. Have it be a retreat for the band or something
Honestly? I feel like they’d be better off working a fifth gate over ruining the Magic Kingdom like this, especially if they could do something on the level of Epic Universe.
This Disney doesn't take risks. A 5th gate would cost an insane amount of money, remember that swge cost a billion for them to build... Imagine a while ass park...
America once had a great transportation system. Then the housing and urban planing teared it all down and highways were build, destroying communities and now USA is fractured without even the urban properties to develop any kind of transportation of the future. It was all destroyed to build something "new and better", just like the Disney Parks are rebuild "new and better".
As if there was any doubt where Poseidon would stand on this issue. I'm quite curious how it'll play out with the state of Florida, which has pumped the brakes because the RoA water is connected to the rest of the waters in the area, and there's concern for environmental health. (I also think this is just Florida having its fun in a post-Reedy Creek world.)
While I'm also hoping that makes them have to reconsider the plans, from what I've heard that won't be an issue to get past. The Cars project will barely be impeded.
The issue seems like a short delay because Disney did not submit enough information on water management. I doubt it'll hold them up unless the state decides to hold this up in red tape, which I don't think will be the case.
TSI was absolute MAGIC for me as a kid. When I think of my very first visit to WDW, the memory that stands out the most isn't of a roller coaster or lifelike animatronics, it's of feeling like I might really get lost in a cave, or jumping up and down on the barrel bridge with my sister. I'm seriously going to shed a few tears for a piece of my childhood the day it's torn out.
Our family always loves to visit Tom Sawyer Island. l always knew it was a dated attraction and it would be one of the first things removed in an expansion. But to lose it to an out of place Cars attraction is baffling. They have completely ruined the whole theming to that corner of the park. When your 12yr old says "this doesnt make sense' you know you did something bad.
That's a huge part of why Disney parks were different, these subtle attractions. The big rides might draw you in, but its the sense of discovery when you realize things like Tom Sawyer's Island exist that keep you coming back.
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that not every ride needs to be an E-ticket. Sure the rides may not be as high quality or exciting but it’s nice having some walk on rides that you know will still be pretty good and where you don’t have to stress about long lines.
That's exactly what I thought when they announced this - ruining the Frontierland/Liberty Square theme (Tiana's outside to me ruins the transition between Pecos Bill and Big Thunder Mountain). I love exploring the caves (including the escape tunnel) on Tom Sawyer Island! The Liberty Square Riverboat also allows a proper 20min. rest - like Carousel of Progress.
Even in the context of recent Parks decisions, I was still shocked by this latest round of announcements. I can't believe they're actually blowing up one of the key sections of the Magic Kingdom. The Rivers of America and the river boat are crucial to the feel of Liberty Square and Frontierland. I know most guests don't understand the progression through time and space, but there's a very clear feeling the area creates. I don't expect the average guest to understand how the Disney experience is created - a lot of it doesn't occur consciously. It's more of a feeling the parks create. If you asked a guest if they'd rather park next to the gate or be separated by a lake and have to take an additional mode of transportation - they would obviously choose the convenience. But the separation of the park and monorail/boat travel through space elevates the experience / perception of the park in a great way. As you said, don't ask gusts what they want. All what works. They aren't storytellers or theme park designers. It's very clear what's worked in the a Magic Kingdom through many, many decades. I'm not saying there can't be change, but they can't ignore the spaces outside and between attractions. What's really sad is that the executives don't seem to understand what makes their parks work. I totally get that new ambiance doesn't sell additional tickets - flashy new attractions do. But there's no reason you can't have both. And in the long term, the parks will suffer for the oversight. It's almost insulting that theythink they can just throw thoughtless, flashy things at the parks and it will work. It will get people to make an extra trip in the short term, but be a disaster in the long term. These lies effort attractions are also expensive and will not age well. I also highly recommend checking out the monomyth theory of story from The Hero with a Thousand Faces. It does an excellent job explaining how we perceive story at the unconscious level. It's something Disney historically knocked out of the park and created the feeling that timeless feeling that keeps guests coming back.
If WDW just HAS to have a "Cars" attraction, tear out the massively polluting Speedway in Tomorrowland and put it there! Villains Land should go in DHS.
As much as I dislike IP in this specific park, I think Cars would have fit far better in Epcot in tandem with test track. It would be very easy to get children interested in the vehicle technology and the manufacturing pipeline by relating it to an IP (edutainment angle). I could see where this might be tricky to work with not drawing attention away from Test Track, but it would bring much needed foot traffic to Epcot. Edit: I would also like to add that I like your notes about crowd absorption. I feel this issue is very prevalent in new lands, especially Galaxy's Edge where guests have stated it feels as if you are being pushed from attraction to attraction with very little seating options. In some ways, it feels like a mirror to our issues outside the park with third places, but maybe that's too deep of a read.
I agreed with you for a second about maybe updating test track with the cars franchise, but then I considered how they would get away with explaining the anatomy of cars in universe lol. Seeing inside a car and how it works is cool until it’s a character who’s ripped in half lmao
Long time viewer but just find it funny that a channel called “Poseidon Entertainment” would obviously be defensive about keeping more water in a Disney Theme park.
We were stuck in Tomorrowland during a thunderstorm and rode the carousel of progress like five times while waiting for the storm to pass. It was dry, air conditioned, ran through the storm, and had no wait, that matters. Going to Tom Sawyer island was like taking a breath from the throngs of people around Thunder Mountain and Splash Mountain. It’s shady and scenic, that matters. A shame to see it go.
Agreed! When they first described this attraction, I immediately thought of it being the perfect replacement for the outdated Tomorrowland Speedway. Have the two attractions, in one. One for children to steer the Cars and one for the whole family to experience, within a more thrilling Cars adventure. It's just logical and makes common sense. Disney exhibits neither of these traits, as of late.
You presented a lot of strong discussion points, but I have one more for keeping or even adding more slow- or no-motion attractions: motion sickness. I love Disney parks, but I can't go on a lot of the high-intensity thrills because I get motion sick very easily. When I get knocked out by an unexpectedly intense attraction, I'm done for the day, no matter what time of day that happens (it was just before lunchtime on my last visit). So if we go by the argument that the company is trying to squeeze more money out of everyone, when I'm out with motion sickness, I'm not buying anything at all, and sometimes, as happened on my last visit, I'm costing them money by using the first aid area to try to recover.
Yeah, good point there too. I have no issues with extremely thrilling rides, but I have also appreciated Disney's emphasis on walk-through attractions or calmer dark rides. It's really different from most of the industry but very accessible to everyone.
If you want to see this done right look at Europa Park. Their ratio between E-ticket rides and all the rest is spot on. And they also do a lot to elevate the filler attractions so that they often end up surprising you. More importantly if a ride has less than a 5 minute wait they don't see it as "unpopular", quite the opposite, it proves its running efficiently and everyone has the chance to get on it.
I was actually thinking about Europa Park as I wrote this, but the script ended up getting kind of messy. I wanted to talk about it, but I thought the last portion of the script became too long and rambled, so I cut the idea. I probably should have taken a step back and found a way to talk about it though.
@PoseidonEntertainment glad you considered it, but I actually agree it probably would have been too much of a tangent in the video. Glad I could mention it in the comments.
Exactly how I felt as soon as I heard of this. I'm usually more upbeat on Disney plans than others but this is just a terrible idea, ruins the vibe of the area and more. Wrote about it myself elsewhere and you summed it up nicely. Honestly, just build a damn fifth gate with a Cars area rather than this.
Is Cars even a relevant franchise now, the last movie came out 7 years ago and the original is nearing 20 years old. They weren’t even big cash cows unlike other franchises with Cars 2 only making $500 million against a $200 million budget.
I'm not saying it's good to replace Tom Sawyer with Cars, but Cars generated 1.4 billion at the box office and nearly 20 billion in merchandise so yes, it's very relevant. Tom Sawyer was written almost 150 years ago. Idk how much merchandise revenue it's generated.
I agree with your points. They can beautify the existing lands without tearing it down. It’s sad that Disney is going on a downward slope because they are too focused on IPs.
Imagine if they'd left Splash alone, and instead built New Orleans Square behind Big Thunder. Giving a dit down restaurant, a snack spot, and one or maybe even 2 rides for Tiana. Imagine if they added a dock there as well. And if they added a train station. Then you could enhance the Liberty Belle. Like, I would theme it after Mardi Gras, including a live Zydeco band or something. Then you could ride the Belle to New Orleans. Or you could walk around Big Thunder. How cool would that have been?
A Tiana's Restaurant would have been AWESOME. Beignets are freaking delicious, and they'd be the perfect walk around snack, plus cajun food in general is just *chefs kiss*.
Thanks for sharing a tour of the island. I've visited this once when we were young kids and have hazy memories of it. I really wanted to visit when we were at WDW last month, but we ran out of time to visit everything during our day at Magic Kingdom, so this fell to the wayside. The river and the island really contribute to the beauty and scenery of the park so there is something quite sad at the thought of losing it.
7:30 I think is a basic problem with current park guests. They are so busy and in a hurry and forced to rush around and be on their phones for things that no one is really taking a breath to appreciate what is being presented to them. I’ve heard a lot of people even say that rise of the resistance does not even start until you get into the individual cars that take you arounfvthecstar destroyer, considering the Rey room and subsequent shuttle flight to be nothing byt conveyance and filler. It’s all part of the attraction! It’s part of the STORY. That’s why you go to a Disney park….. or, at least, used to.
Good post this, completely agree. These little things are my earliest memories of Disney world and it’s sad that many kids of today will have memories of their parents rushing around trying to catch their LL & virtual queues.
Same Disney doesn't seem to know how to use its IPs and leans mostly away from higher thrills. Universal knows how to use their IPs and isn't afraid to put up some big coaster dogs.
I also wonder if Disney's decision to replace attractions rather than continue to add capacity is because they've maybe reached a threshold in how much they're willing to maintain (or spend to maintain). So, instead of adding rides and facilities, they either re-theme or replace existing attractions so that they can basically keep the same maintenance costs, and don't have to hire more people to staff/maintain entirely new lands and attractions. It's Disney being cost-conscious, as usual. It is so much more glaring at Walt Disney World though since they've always had so much expansion space that really they SHOULDN'T need to tear down and replace. And in this case, it's kind of egregious. It's not unlike replacing Cinderella Castle with something new. The Rivers of America has been an iconic part of a Magic Kingdom style park since Disneyland's opening, and (almost) every other Magic Kingdom park has a version. I really hope Disney sees how badly people are taking this decision and reverses course and puts these new attractions behind Big Thunder, and spare the River and it's attractions.
Country Bear Jamboree was a favorite of me and best friend when we were in high school because whenever we went to Disney, it was the only attraction we found in MK that had outlets- so we would sit in for a few shows back to back and charge our phones and rest in the AC. I have so many fond memories of us being the only two in the theater for multiple shows in a row, and having the best time while our dead phones got revived so we could call my dad to pick us up at the end of the day. Not sure if the update got rid of those outlets (we last went together in 2017), but it was one outlet under the bench all the way in the back against the wall. I never got particularly attached to Tom Sawyer Island, but because of my experience with Country Bear, I completely understand why so many people are against it. It's really valuable to have calm places for people to actually be able to have conversations and relax in such overcrowded parks. Not to mention I can't get over how miserable of a concrete desert MK will become if they fill in the rivers of America.
Tom Sawyer Island is actually my favorite place in the park. I’ve been on all the rides so many times, they don’t exactly hit the same. TSI is the best place to sit, drink a frozen lemon aid, talk, and just enjoy where you are. Time slows down when you are there.
Exactly! My first impressions of TSI was that it was a boring time sink but I’ve know become to love it. It’s an escape from the escape! I just took some corn dogs up to the top of the fort yesterday and was one of the few people in MK that day that enjoyed a nice quiet lunch while still being outside
at this point i find it best to just appreciate how lucky i was to grow up when disneyland was still top notch in every place that matters. tom sawyer's island is one of those sightlines that just sets off nostalgia overload for every kid who saw that massive boat and realizing i was gonna get to ride it, truly taking you far from the world outside the gates. everything they're axing are unique experiences that will be replaced by garbage they can shove anywhere.
Hilariously, this is the only feature of the park I remember from when I was a kid. My sister's autistic and I have adhd, so going to the islands and exploring the caves was perfect for us to get a breather away from the crowds. Pissed off my aunt though, who lived out of state and wanted to spend every single second hitting all the big attractions. Thanks to all her pushing, my sister got seriously ill and cannot stand going to Disney anymore. The quiet parts of the park are absolutely necessary and we all learned that lesson.
Yeah this one kills me - it is removing one of my earliest (1994) Disney memories. There’s just so little connecting me to the memories of any of these parks anymore.
They are ripping the heart out of the Magic Kingdom. Frankly Disney World across the resorts and parks, either is already or rapidly becoming/in the works a souless themetically incoherent mess surrounded by examples of Disney's better nature. It's disapointing, heartbreaking, and plainly a crappy value. It's like watching a best friend drink themselves to death.
One of the most memorable parts of visiting in the mid 2000s during a school trip was eating a bread bowl of mediocre chowder by the river area and seeing the native Florida water birds that were just chilling in the park. Seeing those big birds fishing and living their lives oblivious to the crowds struck me as an out of state visitor and it was an enjoyable moment. I found the Disney World parks in general very stressful and didn’t really enjoy how hectic it was to be there even back then but I remember that quiet moment watching birds fondly. You really need spaces like that in a place as chaotic as Disney World. It saddens me that they couldn’t find a way to incorporate such a lovely area. I get that change has to happen occasionally but some things are too good to change and the frontier riverside is one of them. The way things are going I really don’t see the Disney parks as a destination to return to. They just don’t strike me as very much fun.
Little shade in Frontierland as it is. Remove the water and it will be an overheated tarmac. Can't imagine waiting for Big Thunder Mountain if they change it.
I want to start with I have NEVER gone to the island and if it was permanently closed to save cost I would understand. That said them destroying the river is an awful idea. Walking along the river is pretty much the only break you get from the crowd and it gives a break from the park atmosphere and is a place it relax a bit. I think getting rid of the river is going to suck some life out of the park in a way that is hard to put into words and impossible to measure
The sentiment of parks leadership reminds me of a Short I saw on RUclips the other day: These folks went to Tokyo DisneySea (before Fantasy Springs opened) and titled their video “Unpopular opinion: DisneySea is worse than Tokyo Disneyland”. The voiceover says “DisneySea is missing that Disney magic” And what did they show to represent Disney magic? IP. The Mickey made out of flowers in front of the train station. And the castle. I guess it’s this kind of Disney adult that Disney is catering to now?
Yeah, that's who they're catering to and it's awful. If you spend money on projects with real environmental and storytelling value, it's not like those people will stop coming.
The good news is that Disney didn't file proper permits with the South Florida Water Management District. They have 90 days to fix everything. They're probably going to back out of this, or the Cars Land plans will need to be altered.
@PoseidonEntertainment Let's hope not. This kinda shows they really didn't plan it out at all and plopped it out there. The image honestly looks AI generated. There's a chance that they'll just back out and blame DeSantis as an out for the backlash they were getting. The Rivers of America do connect to the Seven Seas Lagoon, which connecrs to a lot of other bodies of water in the area, so the environmental impact of removing that much water is big.
I just had the realization that Tom Sawyer Island is a family friendly, year round maze in the vein of the Halloween mazes that are so popular at theme parks and roadside attractions like Field of Screams or Frightland. In both you have highly immersive paths that you can to some extent freely roam (not as much in the mazes but it is still more freedom to stop than say a roller coaster or dark ride). Both tell a story within the attraction if you are paying attention with Tom Sawyer Island more showing the imagination of Tom Sawyer and the character he is. If I am fair in this assessment then I think it is equally fair to say Disney has fumbled this land so hard. Halloween mazes are some of the most popular things at a theme park. Man in the Machine at Dorney Park had a 75 min wait when I was there at 7:30 pm when it opened at 7. For reference I rode their most popular ride at this time and it only had a 20 min wait. Its newest ride that opened this year and is tied to the maze thematically had a 30 min wait. And that’s Dorney Park. Not Cedar Point or Universal or even Great Adventure-small little Dorney Park. If Disney put effort into Tom Sawyer Island maybe it would become more popular. I’m not saying it would be bonkers because the island doesn’t need that. But more than it currently is.
The ambiance/wandering attraction is another area where Universal is eating Disney's lunch. I could happily wander around the Harry Potter areas of Universal for hours and never ride a ride. Parks need more areas like this!
Finally had the mental & emotional capacity to watch this. Thank you again, as always, totally agree. The Riverboat & the Island are so important for so many reasons. The riverboat specifically is one of the few accessible rides left at Disney in general & I am so angry it's going away for more rides that people with disabilities and motion issues wont be able to experience. I wish more content creators would speak out about these terrible changes. It is no surprise that they don't but still, it's very upsetting. Thank you for continuing to do what you do.
It's sad that corporate decisions are made by people that don't understand what actaully makes the parks amazing. The rides themselves are just a few minutes long. The rest of the time guests are enjoying all the vibe of the park in ways that aren't really tied to the rides at all. People need an escape from lines to keep their sanity. Tom Sawyers island is that place... Great video!I
Been waiting for this vid from you since the moment they announced this dumb decision. Can't wait to watch it after work! Watched it and I agree with everything. I'm so sad my 3 year old daughter will never get to experience this now if they go through with it...
Why can't they just replace Tomorrowland Speedway instead? Cars would fit that part of the park far better. And it wouldn't be as costly. How hard can it be to just repaint and style a race track that is already built? It seems far simpler than draining a river. I say, some of the decisions made by those running this franchise are bold and narrow minded.
I have never been to a Disney park, with each of this type of video I want to go less.. Disney seems to be sucking the life from their parks and replacing it with cheap soulless attractions, it'd suck to lose Tom Sawyer Island.. Especially after just learning about it's existence. It's a really well put together space that captures it's subject matter very well, it's beautiful.
Ignoring for a second the whole premise of the Cars franchise, I can't help but see cynical parallels to American history in general with this: How many things, especially those of human scale, have we bulldozed in the name of the automobile? (And then shotgun sprayed mindless corporate "IP" all over the landscape?) George Carlin had a good bit about that, by the way. Like the saying goes that after WWII, Europe's cities lay in ruins, while America just tore its down voluntarily. So in essence, Disney is staying true to telling the story of America, they're just bringing it up to date. Maybe it's time they also did away with Main Street, USA and turned it into a 6-lane boulevard, no pedestrians allowed.
You know what's ironic? The original Cars movie has a whole point about the natural simplistic beauty of Radiator Springs being ignored and forgotten due to the more modern and convenient Interstate being built. The movie's main theme is to slow down and appreciate the hidden gems in life instead of just racing past them. Yet Disney here is destroying a natural hidden gem that is the same type of area that the Cars movie teaches us to love in order to build a couple of rides based on the Cars franchise.
Omg I never realized that 😭 you are so right. The dystopian feel of it all
If I may quote Ms Morrisette..."Isn't it ironic?"
it's a plan made for consoomers with tiktok brainrot that think modern disney products are palatable, expecting them to see the irony is pretty unrealistic
the thing the execs don't understand is that the brainrot products don't have staying power-- and they're more expensive, tom sawyer's island has operated to maximum effect every day since it opened completely for free retaining the totality of its charm for anyone with the wherewithal to appreciate it
villain's land is a great idea with lots of room for interesting ideas which could even be coupled with ip to enhance the experience of either, imagine that they create a villain the gather the villain's and the whole land is based on a story that they want to take over the magic kingdom, the view from the liberty bell would be incredible- people would ride just to get a special view, i mean they could hide a giant mickey (if they even do that anymore), but instead we're just getting a generic ride based on an already faded ip
@@YorickKnowledgeI mostly agree, just except for the implication that people “these days” who enjoy the Modern Content are simply less intelligent. It’s always more complicated than that. Boomers telling us millennials that we needed to just stop playing video games and get off the internet certainly didn’t help us prevent our current attention span problems. It’s gonna take something more constructive than that.
What are they thinking?? Tom Sawyers Island and the Riverboat are two of the most laid back areas of the Magic Kingdom!! When it is super hot and busy at the park these are two great places to relax and get away from the crowds. I also think it is a very expensive and I am sure long refurbishment since the river has to be removed somehow. 😠😞😔😡
There's something so dystopian about clearing out trees and filling in a river to make an attraction about roads and cars. 😬
Dystopian is the perfect way to describe it.
@@MKLettis “They paved paradise and put in a parking lot….”
It's a man made river
Also I thought they were trying to be more futuristic and that includes "green energy" or the appearance of it 🤦♀️
Except the concept art was about off-roading through the wilderness.
Are they ignoring what the giant body of water does to the ambient temperature of the park around it? Frontierland will be so much more intolerably hot without a nice scenic swamp cooler.
That’s a good point.
This. This right here. I was born and raised in Florida and when I tell you this state is only getter hotter every year with no end in sight, Disney really should not be chucking out opportunities to cool the atmosphere like trees and bodies of water around the park. This is a problem with many Floridian theme parks, not just Disney, designers really don’t prioritize opportunities for shade like they should. I don’t care that I can’t see the skyline of the park I’d rather not get heat stroke
@@oliviab4079 It's not just a Florida issue. Cedar Point has maybe all of twenty trees left in the entire park and not a single water fountain. And to add insult to injury all of the seating areas with shade are smoking sections.
THIS
All they see is $$$$$. Common sense and park flow be damned. I love Disney and have taken my family once or twice a year for many years but once 2020 hit, Disney the company lost its way in all possible ways and raised prices to FU levels. Not to mention, for all these new lands coming, the announcement came at least 2 years too late. I'm thoroughly disappointed and disgusted by alot of these choices by Disney. Change is great and inevitable, but Disney has turned it all into a $hitshow.
What was the point of Walt buying 30,000 acres of Florida land if the company was still going to treat the parks as if they're surrounded by Anaheim?
well without hindsight, it was for EPCOT. But its now to Control the land around the parks.
They signed a contract to preserve the wildlife so I'm wondering how much more wiggle room they have to expand the land
@@joey2894 They can certainly use the portion that was turned into that unused parking lot. They could also probably figure out ways of building around the habitat without violating the terms of the deal. I'm not personally opposed to a cars mountain car ride, but the placement of it is the stupidest place possible.
Well they can’t keep adding hotels if they build more parks (I’m using as much sarcasm as possible fyi)
So true.
Thinking back, I realize that I took for-granted that Tom Sawyer Island and the river would always be there; they felt like real land features, which just coincidentally had a theme-park built around them.
This! 🎯
At this point it's less of a theme park and more of an amusement park. And while you're at it, just call it Kingdom as the Magic left long ago.
Walt would probably be shocked to see how horrible his company is now.
Disney is turning into a (somewhat) cleaner 6 flaggs.
Michael Eisner graduated from college with an English degree, he intuitively understood the importance of storytelling and appointed architects to sit with him on the Board of Directors at Disney, the result was some of the best world class experiences in the theme park industry.
Today, Disney is run by myopic MBAs obsessed with cutting costs, jacking up prices and slapping Disney IP everywhere with mediocre results. No wonder the guest experience is getting worse by the year.
Honestly Eisner had such grand ideas and we got Hollywood studios and california adventure out of it. And animal kingdom. Like.. holy heck. After him its just been lackluster and feels like they're just now riding the coattails of the past, and now being overshadowed by their competitors like universal who I am start to prefer over them.
@@kelsmisteragreed 💯
I wish Eisner was back in charge, honestly.
Wanna make a million dollar brand? Take a billion dollar brand and entrust it to Bob Iger
Eisner had his problems, (chiefly an obsession with the show-business when it came to theme parks, and a later second-guessing an attempt to cut budgets) but he undoubtedly cared about storytelling, and I think it's overlooked how well he got along with and embellished Imagineering. Compare that to Iger, a guy who's first priority is public image, and literally sees the parks as IP vessels
OK but this might deserve the title for the WORST of the changes. What makes Disney different from other parks is the scenery, remove the river and it'll become closer to another other theme park, a giant concrete slab with rides on it.
What made Disney different was cleanliness, customer service, original attractions and that Disney magic touch. All long gone. They can bulldoze the lot for all I care.
About Poseidon’s statement on the unnecessary changes the Disney parks being damaging to the company in the long term, it’s far more likely that the complete death knell of the Walt Disney company is going to come far sooner than he thinks, like in a few weeks, two months or even a whole year later given the rapidly growing number of controversies scandals and lawsuits that Disney is facing.
Exactly at this rate it will be Six Flags with a premium price. Im over it at next AP renewal.
@@triple2delta these decisions would very likely also affect the Disney parks in Paris, Tokyo, Shanghai etc.
@@MarshalMarrs-eu9yh yep you’re correct. I mean this kind of stuff would’ve been interesting to see if Disney quest actually worked and was spread out across America but to do it in the theme parks , which is the money maker these days is crazy.
The island is so chill and such a nice spot to rest from the park, Disney is literally getting rid of every calm corner in their now stressful parks and it’s both concerning and infuriating, and that’s not to get started in the historical value being lost 💀
Can't have a calm moment because then you might forget to buy more merchandise and your kids Barnstormer fast passes.
@@EuroMIX2 This right here. They don't want people to find peaceful places to idle: they want them in lines for rides, meet and greets, or at the shops spending $$$. The more crowded the lines are, the more fast passes they can sell.
It is horrible. Next, Robinson’s Tree House. God forbid parents be able to sit for a minute and watch their kids play.
I’m so tired of Disney’s trend of replacing things instead of expanding on their giant plot of land and numerous abandoned showrooms that also take up space.
Same
yeah build a race track on the star wars hotel you had so much faith in honestly
@@YorickKnowledgethe problem with building over the hotel is that it's in the back of the park with all of the employee parking and show buildings, so there would be a buncha logistics to hide where the rides actually are.
I know, I cannot wait until the afterlife when I'll finally get to build the Disneyland I really want including a Treasure Planet and Meet the Robinsons ride, The Emperor's New Groove Splash Mountain included and other Disney rides that never made the cut.
Extremely cynical to see Disney fans go "Oh, no one uses it anyways". It's a river, you look at it, feel the breeze, you don't **use** it. Seeing park goers think like corporate board members is extremely sad. It's all about capacity or popularity, or IP maximizing. Where's the soul?
Tom Sawyer is an IP
💯💥💯
@@sarah2888s Tom Sawyer is public domain
Yeah, modern Disney simply does not have the passion like that from Walts era. Not to say there isn't some good work being done but I'd say it lacks the depth with their themeing and ideas like shown in these videos.
Because fans only want to see rides with IP they know, so they only care if it has capacity or it’s something they recognize
It was so underhanded the way they went about it. Got everyone at D23 hyped with the Cars concept art that looked like it would be right behind Big Thunder… then they release the full concept art quietly the day after D23 ended.
It’s like they KNEW there would be pushback, they just didn’t want to get booed offstage.
@@EdwardandJessicaMiller You are correct overall, they def hid the location… a bit. However, if you look deeply at the first art they did release, and the orientation of the Big Thunder buttes in background, it was clear they were plunking this new thing right in the middle of the river. But they were not direct about it, they knew the cheers in the hall would become boos.
to make a path that gets behind Big Thunder Mountain would need either Big Thunder Mountain to close or Rivers of America to close and Rivers of America is used the least so fewer people hurt
@@brucenadeau2172 - and yet they’re closing BTM for a whole year.
The dangerous precedent set by monetizing queues is that now management is judging every attraction based on the potential to sell Lightning Lanes. Any attractions that get little or no wait are possibly endangered.
When it is always nice to have walk on options so you can just do something with the kids while waiting for the longer digital line.
It's like they are deliberately ruining stuff that doesn't need to change to avoid fixing the things that do.
This is just petty
That's corporate America as a whole.
but in order to build a path big enough to let people get to villain land either Big Thunder Mountain or Rivers of America would have to close
Disney paving over the rural setting of Tom Sawyer Island for a Carsland is the most symbolically American thing that they will ever do.
It's one of the most corporate things they could do. They may as well just build a parking lot there.
and one of the most Floridian things they could do
What I really despise about the Disney leadership is that all these "renovations" are effectively expensive vandalism. They are tearing up timeless, artistic components of the parks for short-term gimmicks. In 10 years, we'll still be suffering from the lost attractions, with no way of ever getting them back.
Hmm... Bulldozing paradise and building a land for Cars...
Reminds me of post-WW2 America.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot
You don’t know what you got till it’s gone😔
is this a counting crows song?
@@YorickKnowledge Joni Mitchell, but yes Counting Crows did cover it
Haven’t watched the video yet but-
This is one of my girlfriends and I’s favorite places on property, hell, anywhere for that matter
We visit this island almost every weekend, we love to get away from the crowds, we love to watch the wildlife.
We’ve been watching 2 frogs grow for months now and they are adorable.
We love exploring the old fort and feeling like we are transported back to a simpler time. Not every inch of magic kingdom needs to be filled with waiting in lines. It’s these “little things” that set the Disney parks apart of other amusement parks! It hurts I’ll never be able to take my kids to enjoy the liberty belle, Tom Sawyer island, or the shooting arcade. Absolutely classic Americana staples.
the shooting gallery is already gone
@@bb5242 yeah it stinks was a fave :/
It was one of my favorites too ... for over 50 years, since it was all new and I was 7 years old visiting for the first time carrying my Raggedy Ann doll around. These are the things my son and I did during the days while we waited for the crowds to thin out and extra magic hours to kick in so we could ride the attractions that usually had long lines.
Even my mediocre local theme parks have water areas/features. Magic Kingdom is the most visited theme park in the world. I just can’t fathom that this is even a plan.
they're total idiots--look what they did to star wars!
It's happening..tom sawyer island and the river will be gone
@@guyz7777 That's disgusting and nonsensical. They've completely lost me as a fan and customer with these bizarre decisions.
It baffles me. Florida has so much space. SO MUCH SPACE. Why rip out anything? Even Disneyland figured out how to keep their river! They have so much less space!
So it's just Walt Disney World that wants to get rid of that beautiful river?
@@minavane5533yeah Disneyland isn’t getting rid of theirs
@@minavane5533 - You mean the man-made river with a rupturing basin that could flood the utilidoors?
Walt walked the park to understand it. Today’s executives see the park through spreadsheets.
He died before this was even built though....
@@LittleMissDisneyhe definitely walked through Disneyland as it was being built. That’s what they mean.
@@Fantallana This retheme and attraction is regarding WDW. If you want Rivers of America go to Disneyland where Walt Actually Walked
@@LittleMissDisney I think you're missing the point.
@@zackakai5173 by an alaska mile
I always thought the point of buying all that land in FL so many decades ago was to allow for expansion, without having to sacrifice existing areas and attractions? I understand that the island and river is probably a huge cost in regards to upkeep, but lets all be honest, Disney charges a HUGE cost to the consumer for the privilege of the experience. So it kind of seems like a wash to me, but I guess Iger needs to make sure he gets another 60+ million bonus before leaving the next time. As that kind of many does come from giving fans what they want, but by given the share holders what they want.
Disney’s expansion decisions are based solely on what sells the most Lightning Lane passes and merch
I'm curious why Disney's management is so determined to remove these classic attractions. Why not just build a new park instead? It seems like they could preserve Disneyland and Disney World while still leaving room for more innovative and experimental ideas.
They're cheap! They want profit. They want to spend as little as possible. They're just not imaginative any longer.
I think because they can't make merch off it its not profitable. Same with the citizens of main street/hollywood, gone because they can't make money from them.
A lot of the trouble there is finding a sufficient location.
I actually think that the current parks need to make a lot of changes and add additional attractions long before a 5th park is considered. It's just that current leadership should not be the ones making those decisions.
Demoralization, destroying the company's legacy and replacing with cheap IP based rides is one way of doing that.
As I said in the pervious video's comments: The idea they would remove the river and island is absolutely insane. It is the major landmark that Frontier land is known for. It is the one thing I think of immediately when I think about that area.
Yeah Disney has completely forgotten who they are and what makes them special. If Pirates of the Caribbean never became a movie I am sure they would be debating taking that out by now too. It’s honestly heart breaking. They also do not look a t parks in the lease of a child anymore and rather a crazed Disney adult that will spend every penny they have at Disney. My nephews would absolutely love Tom Sawyer Island because it feels like a real place and that they are discovering new things for the first time. When children go to Disney now it’s much less about discovery and much more about waiting in lines and watching their parents struggle pay for the trip. It is honestly so sad watching Disney go down this path. I have such fond memories going as a child in the early 2000s now Disney world is so soulless and I feel like I am only being sold something around every corner. I miss when I would go to Disney to experience a NEW story from the rides. I treated the rides as their own “movie” that I got to live in for a moment. River Cruise, Mount Everest, Pirates, are all great examples of rides that tell their own original story. (Jungle cruise and pirates turned into movies but I digress) It’s honestly kinda scary to watch this happen too because I know once they do it it’ll be irreversible damage done. Lastly how can anyone look at that concept picture and think “wow that looks beautiful and well put together…. It looks a mess!
It's funny, as the concept art uses the buildings from Disneyland Paris too. It's like someone threw a prompt into an AI generator and they passed it off as concept art.
I agree 💯. Disney used to be for KIDS, big or small. We loved it as kids, and appreciated the imagination as adults. Now it's just a giant stressful money grab. Disney adults have changed into selfie monsters, willing to spend every dime they have on stupidity. Kids, or at least most of the ones I've had and met in the past 10yrs, could care less about the place anymore. It's too much, and nothing at all to them. Sad. Truly heartbreaking.
This is heartbreaking to me. Corny old man as I may be, visiting the island and taking the steam ship are always among my very favorite things to do at the Magic Kingdom. I feel like I'm losing an old friend...
It’s such a pointless removal
It not only adheres to the immersive factor, it also absorbs attendee traffic
Amen brother. I've been going to the park since 1980. it used to be a place to cool down and escape from reality. Now the entire Disney experience is about how much you can visit how fast for your money.
As a fellow “corny old man”, I agree!
Glad you’re getting such a strong response! You raised so many good points, which I think have gotten lost in the conversation. One of the things that makes Disney different than other parks are sight lines: Looking across things, negative space, etc. We will lose all of this when the rivers go away and that little island in the middle, that we think about even if we don’t go to disappears. The relative calm and peace of the river and the boat going by will be replaced by cars constantly screaming around a racetrack… What’s interesting is they might have been able to actually build a ride that utilized the island but kept the river around it, think of how big thunder is handled in Paris Disneyland. All of this is to say that your thesis is correct. Disney doesn’t care about the aesthetics and beauty of their parks, they care about cramming stuff in in an effort to maximize profit. Even if in the long run, that doesn’t pan out.
The Hollywood Studios capacity problem doesn’t get talked about enough. I see way too many people justify GMR’s closure by saying that it wasn’t popular and was always a walk-on. Really, it’s not that it wasn’t popular, it just had great capacity. Runaway Railway basically slashed the ride’s capacity in half to where it’s always around an hour wait for a much shorter and extremely shallow experience. I’d hate to see the same thing happen to Magic Kingdom
Yeah, I'm still bitter about that. Removing TGMR was equivalent to shutting down Pirates or HM for me
@@PoseidonEntertainment It was. And I hate that I wasn’t even living in Orlando yet when it closed so I didn’t get a chance to ride it one more time for a proper goodbye before it closed
I haven't gotten to ride Runaway Railway yet, but I was expecting a ride of comparable length to the Great Movie Ride. I know it moves faster, so I was thinking maybe 10 minutes? Nope I was shocked when I looked it up and the ride is 5 minutes! The Great Movie Ride was about 25 minutes! In the same space! I don't mind waiting an hour for an attraction if it's long enough to be worth it. Waiting an hour for any 5 minute ride is really pushing my patience. Let's not even talk about Tron.
The day is soon approaching when all we will have of the Disney attractions we loved are Poseidon’s videos
Wow that is a great a depressing point!
There will always be Defunctland, too
I'll probably cover Dinoland too before it goes
It feels kinda sad and dystopia to replace the blue sparkling water with more desert roads for a franchise that even in its own movie has a theme of appreciating the natural gems in life and stopping to smell the flowers. Spot on with this analysis P.E.
But... the water is green lol
@@PoseidonEntertainment oh shoot 💀 my bad
I want to drag iger by the ear through the park and speak to him like an imagineer would, talking about every detail and why I love it as an artist.
Grab him by his wallet. Tell the stock holders to go walk thru the parks. They'll understand it better than Igrrrr will. And then they'll understand why the stock is tanking year after year. Once they all dump their shares, and the stock is a penny stock, then maybe he'll get it. No bonus for bonehead ideas like Disney+. Make him feel the pain in a way he can understand - through his pockets.
@@gregorycerven3484 Don't know if you've read the recent NYT article about the new details of Chapek's ousting, Bob Iger is an even bigger baby than I thought, he already gets a much higher than average bonus and yet he would still constantly whine to the board about the CBS CEO got a much bigger bonus than him and how he wanted a bigger bonus. (His net worth was already well into the hundreds of millions by this point)
I can imagine Iger sitting through your whole presentation, and going, "Yeah, that's great and all, but what if we put Frozen here..."
@@officialmonarchmusic we need to stop worshiping CEOs as visionary geniuses and recognize them for what they actually are; corporate shills that stumbled their way to the top spot.
the thing is the Imagineers have tried but no way around the rivers of America would not close the steamboat
Has anybody noticed that the overseas Disney/Universal parks seem to care a lot more about theming than American Disney/Universal Parks right now
I could be wrong but it feels like the American parks are obsessed with shoving IP everywhere no matter the quality of the attraction/experience
There are exceptions but I haven’t been impressed by a lot of attractions lately from the US Disney/Universal parks, while I actually been impressed with what Tokyo Disneyland has been doing and Universal with the Beijing park and Super Nintendo World.
Sorry if this is long, maybe not structured well, and has nothing to do with the video, it’s just I feel like I’ve noticed this lately
You would be very correct
i would say universal has really changed to invest that quality into their american parks. everything besides minions land and dreamworks land has been of great quality and care and that will only get better with epic universe. stuff like adding a waterfall to the donkey kong ride in epic where japan only has mist
@@bobbyswanson3498 I say Mega Movie parade and CineSational weren’t really that great just good
CineSational has some good show scenes but I wasn’t impressed by it (didn’t feel like it had a story most of the time and it felt like it was just throwing random IPs mostly with no connection) it’s Universal’s best nighttime but I still find some of Disney’s firework shows better.
Mega Movie Parade has good floats but everyone feels like the crew (outside of costume characters) are just standing there waving and moving around in a very static way, it’s decent I guess, but I wish there was more kinetic energy with the parade crew and maybe some moving parts on most of the floats like the giant T-Rex on the Jurassic World float
That’s just my opinion
100%
Well, you probably know that Tokyo Disney is owned by the OLC, and honestly, DLP isn't doing much better than the American parks right now. The best thing about Disneyland Park in Paris is that they've left the physical park alone, with very little changes in the last 20 years. The second park, which was a disaster from the start, is now going to be "Disney Adventure World" AKA the closest thing to a quintessentially Bob Iger park I feel we've ever had. Similarly, Hong Kong has had some theming issues in the past couple years, but Shanghai is still pretty new, and hasn't had too many changes. I feel like Tokyo is really the only one far and above in that department, for obvious reasons, and the other parks are either not better or themed or are only better for circumstantial reasons
Great video! You hit all the best points on why the island and river is important. Magic Kingdom, out of any Disney park in the world, needs more attractions that require no waiting and allow you to explore and be immersed. It's way too crowded of a park to just slap another E ticket ride with a Lightning Lane and call it a day. Plus, the river and island are a beautiful set piece that everyone enjoys as they're in that area of the park, even if they don't realize it. It adds nature, kinetic energy, and breathing room to the area, and it also cools down the air. Frontierland and Liberty Square are going to be a lot warmer without the water.
I can’t bring myself to watch the video, but I will comment. This decision is quite literally a travesty for the theme park industry. The death of free spaces in parks is getting worse and worse. This announcement is what made me finally decide I’m done with Disney for good. (This and the completely unthemed six flags coaster at shanghai)
I'm also done. They are actively and rapidly destroying the theme parks and it is unbearable to witness. The "fans" who are cheering it on are also repulsive to me and it's making me feel increasingly alienated and misanthropic. I have to avoid it altogether. Disneyland, Disney theme parks, and Imagineering was one of my greatest passions in life. This is a huge loss for me.
I agree.. the river/ water feature gives the park some character.. otherwise it's just the state fair in parking lot
With each new horror announced from the Disney execs, I feel that much luckier to have been able to spend so much time at Magic Kingdom and EPCOT during the golden years of the first two decades.
Is Cars even that relevant a property anymore? The last movie came out like 8 years ago and didn't do all that great. I can see Cars replacing the ancient, dilapidated, stinky Tomorrowland Speedway, but can it really carry its own land?
Why do you think they’re making a Cars 4
Do you think Tom Sawyer is a relevant property anymore?! Lmao
Toddler boys love three things: cars, dinosaurs, and robots. It’s sad disney is getting rid of dinosaurs in animal kingdom.
Carsland at DCA is constantly packed with guests and it's a beautiful place. Not saying it belongs in Magic Kingdom, but Cars as a franchise is very popular and relevant.
Was Princess and the Frog?
I was just there for the Halloween Party on 9/24 and got a great picture of The Haunted Mansion across the water with the riverboat all lit up in the foreground. I can't imagine this not existing anymore and I'm glad I got that shot while I still can ❤
Iger’s Disney cares little for ANY theming. There’s no care, no theming, absolutely nothing is cohesive.
The loss of water will likely result in a hotter park. I was at Disneyland today and going from New Orleans Square and Frontierland to Toon Town and Tomorrowland (not by the lagoon, but by Space Mountain and Star Wars Launch Bay) the temperature seemed to go up at least 5 degrees. In Toon Town especially I could just feel the heat blasting me, reflecting off all the concrete buildings surrounding me. In Tomorrowland, I walked from the open sun to some shade of a tree (yes, there are indeed a few, haha) and the temp dropped dramatically. I walked back and forth a few times because the effect was so dramatic. Imagineering or Park Operations at both resorts needs a Heat Task Force lead by a Senior Vice President of Guest Comfort to fight for more water, shade, and heat-fighting features.
That's a point I should have brought up too, but yeah, it's so important in cooling down the park. The new center of Epcot is a miserable concrete heat trap.
Cars Land should go behind Big Thunder Mountain. I know it doesn't thematically tie to Frontierland in general but it could easily tie to just Big Thunder Mountain.
It would of had it been Ornament Valley and Radiator Spring's as a Desert Land even with Coco as a Village.
Why does it even need to go into Magic Kingdom in the first place? I think it would be a better fit at either Animal Kingdom where the off-road aspect would make more sense or as a rework of Test Track where the infrastructure and ride system necessary would already be there
@@Ultima64 My guess is providing something else other than Villains Land for family and kids demographic, although the one main attraction they say is thrilling so... mmm.. this expansion had three properties in the beginning and now is two. Putting that in Animal Kingdom would be worse because talking Cars world with an animal world even if the ride would be fun there and perfect logic atmosphere and terrain. Test Track is operated by Chevrolet so obvious why Disney never threw Cars IP into it!
but there is no way to build a path big enough without hurting the Rivers of America once you close the steamboat ride you do not need the island
@@Ultima64 you still lose rivers of America to make a path to villain land so why not use that land for a smaller ride to help with the crowd
People have become too obsessed with cramming ride after ride into their day, likely spurred on by the desire to "get their money's worth." However, this mentality misses what makes the parks truly great. Don't get me wrong, I love the rides. I try to get on as many rides as I can, but it is truly the things in between those rides that set Disney apart from the competition. My family used to have a policy to never wait more than 45 minutes for a ride (maybe an hour for one big ride). We would instead head to entertainment, a playground, an animal trail, etc.
When I was a kid, I loved stopping by Tom Sawyer Island or Honey I Shrunk the Kids Playground. In fact, TSI was my favorite thing in MK. I had no connection to Tom Sawyer or the works of Mark Twain, but I came to love that island. The caves, the fort, all the small buildings and trails; it all felt like a place I was truly exploring. The fact that so many people ignore it is honestly sad. Do you really think your kid is going to have more fun waiting an hour and a half in line for a 2 minute attraction as opposed to having free reign to play and make their own adventures? The happiest kids I see at Disney parks are those on TSI and areas like it, but so many would rather spend the majority of their day in queue lines.
Wait until they build a fence around Robinson’s Family Tree House, put a character in there and start selling character meets and that’s the only way you can see it.
It’s not Disney that’s making a mistake
It’s bob iger
He doesn’t want DISNEY world
He wants igers world
👏👏👏👏 EXACTLY. I've been saying that too. I stopped calling it the WALT DISNEY Company and WALT DISNEY World. To me its now the bob iger company and bob iger world.
Yep. I get it. Disney is a corporation at the end of the day but making everything so bland and corporate is directly against the original vision of DL and WDW
@@ryancarter2959 It's certainly possible to get too tied into the founder's vision, but Disney lately has fallen into the trap of straying too far from the founder's vision on things where Walt was right.
The bottom line is obvious. We need to get Iger out of office, and we need new people on the board of supervisors
@@Steamfan11000%. Iger and his ilk will destroy the parks as long as they are around. It really looks like a hostile takeover is the best option. The only other outcome is the parks continue to be run into the ground, then the entire company goes bankrupt because Iger killed the golden goose and then shareholders finally demand regime change.
Iger is an egomaniac and one of the worst CEOs of all time as he myopically believes he’s one of the best.
I've been to Disney World a couple times, and ultimately my single fondest memory is running around Tom Sawyer Island as a young kid. It's incredibly fun to explore in a way nothing else at the park can compare to IMO, and I'm really sad to see that it may be gone really soon.
I always enjoyed Tom Sawyer's Island. I is a place to escape when you or the kids have become overstimulated by the rest of the park. I suppose it don't sell any merch, but it has been around for 50+ years. We will see how relevant "Cars Land" is in 2080.
See how relevant Disney is in 2080. They may not exist if they keep going in the direction they're going
Disney and Big Mistakes go together hand in hand. Disney in recent years especially has been no stranger to making big mistakes and this is another one to go on that long list.
I see everyone excited for D23 announcements, but after Epcot, I think, is this the leadership that you really want to see making changes?
Indeed. I can’t say I was particularly excited for any of the new announcements because Disney has consistently disappointed me in recent years.
If they wanted an IP on the island so badly, just ditch Tom Sawyer and have it be an island featuring Disney bears like Baloo, Country Bears etc., it would be an ideal place to do meet and greets since it's so shaded. Have it be a retreat for the band or something
There is still an issue of inaccessibility and the river’s basin being ruptured beyond repair.
Honestly? I feel like they’d be better off working a fifth gate over ruining the Magic Kingdom like this, especially if they could do something on the level of Epic Universe.
Thing is, I don’t think they can anymore. Old Disney, yes, but Universal is the new old Disney at this rate, and the old Universal is the new Disney.
@@coolioam8137Damn... That cut deep.
This Disney doesn't take risks. A 5th gate would cost an insane amount of money, remember that swge cost a billion for them to build... Imagine a while ass park...
@@MrOskiee How much did Epic Universe cost?
@@JP-1990 who knows, and who cares. My point is that Disney isn't going to take that risk because they don't take risks anymore.
I miss when Disneyland had original rides and lands. And I wish corporate could understand that and respect Walt's legacy.
America once had a great transportation system. Then the housing and urban planing teared it all down and highways were build, destroying communities and now USA is fractured without even the urban properties to develop any kind of transportation of the future. It was all destroyed to build something "new and better", just like the Disney Parks are rebuild "new and better".
That's actually a theme of the original cars movie. How ironic
As if there was any doubt where Poseidon would stand on this issue.
I'm quite curious how it'll play out with the state of Florida, which has pumped the brakes because the RoA water is connected to the rest of the waters in the area, and there's concern for environmental health. (I also think this is just Florida having its fun in a post-Reedy Creek world.)
While I'm also hoping that makes them have to reconsider the plans, from what I've heard that won't be an issue to get past. The Cars project will barely be impeded.
The issue seems like a short delay because Disney did not submit enough information on water management. I doubt it'll hold them up unless the state decides to hold this up in red tape, which I don't think will be the case.
I’ll miss this part of the park soooo much. Looking forward to a Villains Land but I don’t understand why they have to rip out such a beloved area.
TSI was absolute MAGIC for me as a kid. When I think of my very first visit to WDW, the memory that stands out the most isn't of a roller coaster or lifelike animatronics, it's of feeling like I might really get lost in a cave, or jumping up and down on the barrel bridge with my sister. I'm seriously going to shed a few tears for a piece of my childhood the day it's torn out.
Our family always loves to visit Tom Sawyer Island. l always knew it was a dated attraction and it would be one of the first things removed in an expansion. But to lose it to an out of place Cars attraction is baffling. They have completely ruined the whole theming to that corner of the park. When your 12yr old says "this doesnt make sense' you know you did something bad.
That's a huge part of why Disney parks were different, these subtle attractions. The big rides might draw you in, but its the sense of discovery when you realize things like Tom Sawyer's Island exist that keep you coming back.
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that not every ride needs to be an E-ticket. Sure the rides may not be as high quality or exciting but it’s nice having some walk on rides that you know will still be pretty good and where you don’t have to stress about long lines.
That's exactly what I thought when they announced this - ruining the Frontierland/Liberty Square theme (Tiana's outside to me ruins the transition between Pecos Bill and Big Thunder Mountain). I love exploring the caves (including the escape tunnel) on Tom Sawyer Island! The Liberty Square Riverboat also allows a proper 20min. rest - like Carousel of Progress.
Even in the context of recent Parks decisions, I was still shocked by this latest round of announcements. I can't believe they're actually blowing up one of the key sections of the Magic Kingdom. The Rivers of America and the river boat are crucial to the feel of Liberty Square and Frontierland. I know most guests don't understand the progression through time and space, but there's a very clear feeling the area creates.
I don't expect the average guest to understand how the Disney experience is created - a lot of it doesn't occur consciously. It's more of a feeling the parks create. If you asked a guest if they'd rather park next to the gate or be separated by a lake and have to take an additional mode of transportation - they would obviously choose the convenience. But the separation of the park and monorail/boat travel through space elevates the experience / perception of the park in a great way. As you said, don't ask gusts what they want. All what works. They aren't storytellers or theme park designers. It's very clear what's worked in the a Magic Kingdom through many, many decades. I'm not saying there can't be change, but they can't ignore the spaces outside and between attractions.
What's really sad is that the executives don't seem to understand what makes their parks work. I totally get that new ambiance doesn't sell additional tickets - flashy new attractions do. But there's no reason you can't have both. And in the long term, the parks will suffer for the oversight. It's almost insulting that theythink they can just throw thoughtless, flashy things at the parks and it will work. It will get people to make an extra trip in the short term, but be a disaster in the long term. These lies effort attractions are also expensive and will not age well.
I also highly recommend checking out the monomyth theory of story from The Hero with a Thousand Faces. It does an excellent job explaining how we perceive story at the unconscious level. It's something Disney historically knocked out of the park and created the feeling that timeless feeling that keeps guests coming back.
If WDW just HAS to have a "Cars" attraction, tear out the massively polluting Speedway in Tomorrowland and put it there! Villains Land should go in DHS.
Nostalgia is important. TS island is one of my fav parts of the MK. You really nailed why it's so important to round out the park.
As much as I dislike IP in this specific park, I think Cars would have fit far better in Epcot in tandem with test track. It would be very easy to get children interested in the vehicle technology and the manufacturing pipeline by relating it to an IP (edutainment angle). I could see where this might be tricky to work with not drawing attention away from Test Track, but it would bring much needed foot traffic to Epcot.
Edit: I would also like to add that I like your notes about crowd absorption. I feel this issue is very prevalent in new lands, especially Galaxy's Edge where guests have stated it feels as if you are being pushed from attraction to attraction with very little seating options. In some ways, it feels like a mirror to our issues outside the park with third places, but maybe that's too deep of a read.
I agreed with you for a second about maybe updating test track with the cars franchise, but then I considered how they would get away with explaining the anatomy of cars in universe lol. Seeing inside a car and how it works is cool until it’s a character who’s ripped in half lmao
Long time viewer but just find it funny that a channel called “Poseidon Entertainment” would obviously be defensive about keeping more water in a Disney Theme park.
Josh promised expansions expansions expansions and all we get is disappointment and replacements. They are in shambles
We were stuck in Tomorrowland during a thunderstorm and rode the carousel of progress like five times while waiting for the storm to pass. It was dry, air conditioned, ran through the storm, and had no wait, that matters. Going to Tom Sawyer island was like taking a breath from the throngs of people around Thunder Mountain and Splash Mountain. It’s shady and scenic, that matters. A shame to see it go.
Why they refuse to replace the Tomorrowland Speedway with the Cars attraction is beyond me.
It's cheap and eats up a lot of people
I mean, Tomorrowland is like Brand Synergy: The Land. Why couldn’t they?
@@larrymantic2635not in wdw
@@WrigglySharkoh right. WDW’s did have fitting futuristic attractions.
Agreed! When they first described this attraction, I immediately thought of it being the perfect replacement for the outdated Tomorrowland Speedway. Have the two attractions, in one. One for children to steer the Cars and one for the whole family to experience, within a more thrilling Cars adventure. It's just logical and makes common sense. Disney exhibits neither of these traits, as of late.
You presented a lot of strong discussion points, but I have one more for keeping or even adding more slow- or no-motion attractions: motion sickness. I love Disney parks, but I can't go on a lot of the high-intensity thrills because I get motion sick very easily. When I get knocked out by an unexpectedly intense attraction, I'm done for the day, no matter what time of day that happens (it was just before lunchtime on my last visit). So if we go by the argument that the company is trying to squeeze more money out of everyone, when I'm out with motion sickness, I'm not buying anything at all, and sometimes, as happened on my last visit, I'm costing them money by using the first aid area to try to recover.
Yeah, good point there too. I have no issues with extremely thrilling rides, but I have also appreciated Disney's emphasis on walk-through attractions or calmer dark rides. It's really different from most of the industry but very accessible to everyone.
If you want to see this done right look at Europa Park. Their ratio between E-ticket rides and all the rest is spot on. And they also do a lot to elevate the filler attractions so that they often end up surprising you.
More importantly if a ride has less than a 5 minute wait they don't see it as "unpopular", quite the opposite, it proves its running efficiently and everyone has the chance to get on it.
I was actually thinking about Europa Park as I wrote this, but the script ended up getting kind of messy. I wanted to talk about it, but I thought the last portion of the script became too long and rambled, so I cut the idea. I probably should have taken a step back and found a way to talk about it though.
@PoseidonEntertainment glad you considered it, but I actually agree it probably would have been too much of a tangent in the video. Glad I could mention it in the comments.
Exactly how I felt as soon as I heard of this. I'm usually more upbeat on Disney plans than others but this is just a terrible idea, ruins the vibe of the area and more. Wrote about it myself elsewhere and you summed it up nicely. Honestly, just build a damn fifth gate with a Cars area rather than this.
Is Cars even a relevant franchise now, the last movie came out 7 years ago and the original is nearing 20 years old. They weren’t even big cash cows unlike other franchises with Cars 2 only making $500 million against a $200 million budget.
I'm not saying it's good to replace Tom Sawyer with Cars, but Cars generated 1.4 billion at the box office and nearly 20 billion in merchandise so yes, it's very relevant. Tom Sawyer was written almost 150 years ago. Idk how much merchandise revenue it's generated.
Cars toys are competitive with Hot Wheels, so I get it. Cars has its place in the parks, just not the river.
I agree with your points. They can beautify the existing lands without tearing it down. It’s sad that Disney is going on a downward slope because they are too focused on IPs.
Florida is being totally paved over . So why not include Frontierland at Disney ?
Imagine if they'd left Splash alone, and instead built New Orleans Square behind Big Thunder. Giving a dit down restaurant, a snack spot, and one or maybe even 2 rides for Tiana.
Imagine if they added a dock there as well.
And if they added a train station.
Then you could enhance the Liberty Belle. Like, I would theme it after Mardi Gras, including a live Zydeco band or something. Then you could ride the Belle to New Orleans. Or you could walk around Big Thunder.
How cool would that have been?
Yeah but that’s cool and creative, two things Disney hates
A Tiana's Restaurant would have been AWESOME. Beignets are freaking delicious, and they'd be the perfect walk around snack, plus cajun food in general is just *chefs kiss*.
Thanks for sharing a tour of the island. I've visited this once when we were young kids and have hazy memories of it. I really wanted to visit when we were at WDW last month, but we ran out of time to visit everything during our day at Magic Kingdom, so this fell to the wayside. The river and the island really contribute to the beauty and scenery of the park so there is something quite sad at the thought of losing it.
My home park would KILL for an area like Tom Sawyer island. It just improves the park layout!
What’s your home park?
7:30 I think is a basic problem with current park guests. They are so busy and in a hurry and forced to rush around and be on their phones for things that no one is really taking a breath to appreciate what is being presented to them. I’ve heard a lot of people even say that rise of the resistance does not even start until you get into the individual cars that take you arounfvthecstar destroyer, considering the Rey room and subsequent shuttle flight to be nothing byt conveyance and filler. It’s all part of the attraction! It’s part of the STORY. That’s why you go to a Disney park….. or, at least, used to.
Good post this, completely agree. These little things are my earliest memories of Disney world and it’s sad that many kids of today will have memories of their parents rushing around trying to catch their LL & virtual queues.
I'll be going to Universal Studios the next time I go to Florida instead.
Same Disney doesn't seem to know how to use its IPs and leans mostly away from higher thrills.
Universal knows how to use their IPs and isn't afraid to put up some big coaster dogs.
I also wonder if Disney's decision to replace attractions rather than continue to add capacity is because they've maybe reached a threshold in how much they're willing to maintain (or spend to maintain). So, instead of adding rides and facilities, they either re-theme or replace existing attractions so that they can basically keep the same maintenance costs, and don't have to hire more people to staff/maintain entirely new lands and attractions. It's Disney being cost-conscious, as usual. It is so much more glaring at Walt Disney World though since they've always had so much expansion space that really they SHOULDN'T need to tear down and replace. And in this case, it's kind of egregious. It's not unlike replacing Cinderella Castle with something new. The Rivers of America has been an iconic part of a Magic Kingdom style park since Disneyland's opening, and (almost) every other Magic Kingdom park has a version. I really hope Disney sees how badly people are taking this decision and reverses course and puts these new attractions behind Big Thunder, and spare the River and it's attractions.
Country Bear Jamboree was a favorite of me and best friend when we were in high school because whenever we went to Disney, it was the only attraction we found in MK that had outlets- so we would sit in for a few shows back to back and charge our phones and rest in the AC. I have so many fond memories of us being the only two in the theater for multiple shows in a row, and having the best time while our dead phones got revived so we could call my dad to pick us up at the end of the day. Not sure if the update got rid of those outlets (we last went together in 2017), but it was one outlet under the bench all the way in the back against the wall.
I never got particularly attached to Tom Sawyer Island, but because of my experience with Country Bear, I completely understand why so many people are against it. It's really valuable to have calm places for people to actually be able to have conversations and relax in such overcrowded parks. Not to mention I can't get over how miserable of a concrete desert MK will become if they fill in the rivers of America.
Tom Sawyer Island is actually my favorite place in the park. I’ve been on all the rides so many times, they don’t exactly hit the same. TSI is the best place to sit, drink a frozen lemon aid, talk, and just enjoy where you are. Time slows down when you are there.
Exactly! My first impressions of TSI was that it was a boring time sink but I’ve know become to love it. It’s an escape from the escape! I just took some corn dogs up to the top of the fort yesterday and was one of the few people in MK that day that enjoyed a nice quiet lunch while still being outside
at this point i find it best to just appreciate how lucky i was to grow up when disneyland was still top notch in every place that matters. tom sawyer's island is one of those sightlines that just sets off nostalgia overload for every kid who saw that massive boat and realizing i was gonna get to ride it, truly taking you far from the world outside the gates. everything they're axing are unique experiences that will be replaced by garbage they can shove anywhere.
Hilariously, this is the only feature of the park I remember from when I was a kid. My sister's autistic and I have adhd, so going to the islands and exploring the caves was perfect for us to get a breather away from the crowds. Pissed off my aunt though, who lived out of state and wanted to spend every single second hitting all the big attractions. Thanks to all her pushing, my sister got seriously ill and cannot stand going to Disney anymore. The quiet parts of the park are absolutely necessary and we all learned that lesson.
Yeah this one kills me - it is removing one of my earliest (1994) Disney memories. There’s just so little connecting me to the memories of any of these parks anymore.
Everything with charm is being replaced with charmless IP forgetting that it’s this charm that makes Disney parks stand out from the rest.
They are ripping the heart out of the Magic Kingdom. Frankly Disney World across the resorts and parks, either is already or rapidly becoming/in the works a souless themetically incoherent mess surrounded by examples of Disney's better nature. It's disapointing, heartbreaking, and plainly a crappy value. It's like watching a best friend drink themselves to death.
One of the most memorable parts of visiting in the mid 2000s during a school trip was eating a bread bowl of mediocre chowder by the river area and seeing the native Florida water birds that were just chilling in the park. Seeing those big birds fishing and living their lives oblivious to the crowds struck me as an out of state visitor and it was an enjoyable moment. I found the Disney World parks in general very stressful and didn’t really enjoy how hectic it was to be there even back then but I remember that quiet moment watching birds fondly. You really need spaces like that in a place as chaotic as Disney World. It saddens me that they couldn’t find a way to incorporate such a lovely area. I get that change has to happen occasionally but some things are too good to change and the frontier riverside is one of them. The way things are going I really don’t see the Disney parks as a destination to return to. They just don’t strike me as very much fun.
Little shade in Frontierland as it is. Remove the water and it will be an overheated tarmac. Can't imagine waiting for Big Thunder Mountain if they change it.
I want to start with I have NEVER gone to the island and if it was permanently closed to save cost I would understand. That said them destroying the river is an awful idea. Walking along the river is pretty much the only break you get from the crowd and it gives a break from the park atmosphere and is a place it relax a bit. I think getting rid of the river is going to suck some life out of the park in a way that is hard to put into words and impossible to measure
It’s a secondary or even tertiary attraction, sure, but it really adds to the immersive factor. Plus it’s a great way to absorb attendee traffic
The sentiment of parks leadership reminds me of a Short I saw on RUclips the other day: These folks went to Tokyo DisneySea (before Fantasy Springs opened) and titled their video “Unpopular opinion: DisneySea is worse than Tokyo Disneyland”. The voiceover says “DisneySea is missing that Disney magic” And what did they show to represent Disney magic? IP. The Mickey made out of flowers in front of the train station. And the castle. I guess it’s this kind of Disney adult that Disney is catering to now?
Yeah, that's who they're catering to and it's awful. If you spend money on projects with real environmental and storytelling value, it's not like those people will stop coming.
The good news is that Disney didn't file proper permits with the South Florida Water Management District. They have 90 days to fix everything.
They're probably going to back out of this, or the Cars Land plans will need to be altered.
I doubt it. They'll probably submit proper plans
@PoseidonEntertainment Let's hope not. This kinda shows they really didn't plan it out at all and plopped it out there. The image honestly looks AI generated.
There's a chance that they'll just back out and blame DeSantis as an out for the backlash they were getting.
The Rivers of America do connect to the Seven Seas Lagoon, which connecrs to a lot of other bodies of water in the area, so the environmental impact of removing that much water is big.
I just had the realization that Tom Sawyer Island is a family friendly, year round maze in the vein of the Halloween mazes that are so popular at theme parks and roadside attractions like Field of Screams or Frightland.
In both you have highly immersive paths that you can to some extent freely roam (not as much in the mazes but it is still more freedom to stop than say a roller coaster or dark ride). Both tell a story within the attraction if you are paying attention with Tom Sawyer Island more showing the imagination of Tom Sawyer and the character he is.
If I am fair in this assessment then I think it is equally fair to say Disney has fumbled this land so hard. Halloween mazes are some of the most popular things at a theme park. Man in the Machine at Dorney Park had a 75 min wait when I was there at 7:30 pm when it opened at 7. For reference I rode their most popular ride at this time and it only had a 20 min wait. Its newest ride that opened this year and is tied to the maze thematically had a 30 min wait.
And that’s Dorney Park. Not Cedar Point or Universal or even Great Adventure-small little Dorney Park.
If Disney put effort into Tom Sawyer Island maybe it would become more popular. I’m not saying it would be bonkers because the island doesn’t need that. But more than it currently is.
The ambiance/wandering attraction is another area where Universal is eating Disney's lunch. I could happily wander around the Harry Potter areas of Universal for hours and never ride a ride. Parks need more areas like this!
Finally had the mental & emotional capacity to watch this. Thank you again, as always, totally agree. The Riverboat & the Island are so important for so many reasons. The riverboat specifically is one of the few accessible rides left at Disney in general & I am so angry it's going away for more rides that people with disabilities and motion issues wont be able to experience. I wish more content creators would speak out about these terrible changes. It is no surprise that they don't but still, it's very upsetting. Thank you for continuing to do what you do.
It's sad that corporate decisions are made by people that don't understand what actaully makes the parks amazing. The rides themselves are just a few minutes long. The rest of the time guests are enjoying all the vibe of the park in ways that aren't really tied to the rides at all. People need an escape from lines to keep their sanity. Tom Sawyers island is that place... Great video!I
Been waiting for this vid from you since the moment they announced this dumb decision. Can't wait to watch it after work! Watched it and I agree with everything. I'm so sad my 3 year old daughter will never get to experience this now if they go through with it...
Why can't they just replace Tomorrowland Speedway instead? Cars would fit that part of the park far better. And it wouldn't be as costly. How hard can it be to just repaint and style a race track that is already built? It seems far simpler than draining a river. I say, some of the decisions made by those running this franchise are bold and narrow minded.
I have never been to a Disney park, with each of this type of video I want to go less.. Disney seems to be sucking the life from their parks and replacing it with cheap soulless attractions, it'd suck to lose Tom Sawyer Island.. Especially after just learning about it's existence. It's a really well put together space that captures it's subject matter very well, it's beautiful.
Pave paradise, put up a parking lot.
Excellent video. Thank you for making this video...I hope Disney executives see it and get the message!
Ignoring for a second the whole premise of the Cars franchise, I can't help but see cynical parallels to American history in general with this:
How many things, especially those of human scale, have we bulldozed in the name of the automobile? (And then shotgun sprayed mindless corporate "IP" all over the landscape?) George Carlin had a good bit about that, by the way.
Like the saying goes that after WWII, Europe's cities lay in ruins, while America just tore its down voluntarily. So in essence, Disney is staying true to telling the story of America, they're just bringing it up to date. Maybe it's time they also did away with Main Street, USA and turned it into a 6-lane boulevard, no pedestrians allowed.
I love Tom Sawyer Island and the Rivers of America. They could put the Cars attraction at Disney Hollywood Studios instead.