The way I feel about ISO vs. SAE is the same as being left or right handed. It's about the way your brain works in order to deliver the action. One way will feel FAR more natural to you than the other. Just the same as writing with a pencil.
SAE is like operating backwards to me! ISO is so much more natural to your hand and ass movements! It's all about the feel in your body! If ya aren't feeling it in your hands And body, it's not going to work well for you! It's all about the FEEL!!!!!
For anyone interested, if you run a skid loader in iso, you’re going to feel more comfortable running an excavator in sae because you’re familiar working with your right hand. If you run H pattern in a loader the iso in an excavator is going to feel familiar. Most people start in a skid and iso is easier to pick up, sae in an excavator works similar to what you learned in the loader so the learning curve is quicker.
Started using an excavator last week at my school's heavy equipment program. I so far have been using SAE and personally it feels nice to be able to bring the stick back and curl the bucket with the same joystick.
This is the only way that I can actually control the thing LOL. The only time I control them in Cat controls is when I'm loading them on a lowboy to transport and even that is weird LOL. Once you learn one way it's almost impossible to learn the other
First excavator I operated was in SAE, so I learned it and operated it for couple of years. After selling it I only realize that everybody arond me is using ISO. Its a real strugle to learn ISO now when Im used to SAE...
I learned to run JCB backhoes over 30 years ago in the UK they were JD controls but on an x pattern instead of + . I moved to Canada and didn't run a machine for over 10 years. I was asked to repair a Hitachi excavator on cat controls that I'd never run before. The only instruction was it's in the field "you'll figure out running it" and diagnose the cooling problem. Ok i figured out the pattern ran it less than 4 minutes doing good. Then suddenly the JD pattern came back in my head and I couldn't run it after that as I had to start thinking about it. The real funny thing was 6 years further on after not running anything after that day. I bought a JCB backhoe loader and operating it the first day was like i'd never been off it for all those years. My dad even said when he was watching wow that's like the learning to ride a bike , you never forget once you learned.
Good video. This guy knows ISO vs SAE. There is confusion out there! Just boom and stick change. I saw one video which said curl and swing are reversed!
The farm that I started working on had “ rubber tire hoes” and “track hoes” when you jump from one piece of equipment to the other several times a day it just makes it easier and safer to have the controls set the same, the guys in the hole don’t have to worry about getting slammed with a bucket.
Thanks .. When I bought my jd 410 and the first thing I did to teach my self was to boom all the way down, stick all out, bucket level on ground .. Then Boom up so the bucket is a foot off the ground then bring it in level, maintaining the one foot clearance to the ground. Do that 10 times. Seems to work, I got my wife to learn that way and my grandson.
I can run both, it took a few years of switching back and forth. My boss bought a pc160 set up in sae, and no way to switch it other than swapping hoses. I’m the beginning if I progressed on sae I regressed on iso. But eventually I mastered both 👍🏼
Wow you hit it! We used to buy John Deere shovels and tell them to switch the valve hoses too iso before we received machine! That was years ago, now you can usually hit a switch in the cab and bang iso! I personally get flustered trying to run sae
Would it not make sense to just switch depending on your dominant hand? ie, use the dominant hand for stick and bucket as these are the 'business end' where finer control is desirable.
Thanks for the video... definitely cleared up my confusion. Always wondered why I can drive an exavator just fine yet always struggle on my papas 1970s JD backhoe. Could never tell why It is so hard for me to do the backhoe and started to think it's because I'm used to turning with the boom (I never realized it was the controls...I only get to drive the exavator about once a year when we rent it and I usually only drive the backhoe about twice a year). Thanks very much for this...I feel much better now! Lol
I Learnt on Backhoes as a kid but can switch to ISO if required but it takes time and concentration to avoid mistakes. Personally I feel that SAE makes more sense as it puts both digging "force" operations i.e. bucket and stick/dipper on one hand while using you left hand for the "balance" operation i.e. Boom to get your cut level neat. It comes down to what you learn first but I still think logically SAE is a more ergonomic pattern and generally easier to operate well.
Everyone complains that so many of the new operators suck compared to the older operator. I run SAE myself and the bucket and stick feels like my forearm and hand. Sometimes I think so many newer operators suck because they're teaching the wrong pattern 🤷♂️
My JCB has a toggle switch on the right side and you can switch midstream if its touched, I almost tore off the side of a house when my water bottle fell on it switching it to SAE , so no more water while working the controls.
I have to spend an hour reprogramming my brain to run ISO. My machines are set to SAE but neither has the valve to switch. My son ran a hammer for months on ISO and now he cant run sae anymore and gets frustrated trying. With 20 plus years experience and a worker with 35 years experience we are old dogs so we are sticking with sae.
I can run both efficiently. Just taught myself to instead of digging for valves. ISO is standard but, imo if someone is new try and learn both patterns.. With time and experience it will be helpful and you definitely will be more worthy when its pay scale time. Especially when you get around older iron that doesnt have a pattern valve. Great explanation video for beginners though.
You can really get good on a excavator after you run an older Case 880 or Massey Ferguson MF450 for years and years. Foot controls along with hand stick controls. And if you are old enough to remember running a 1066 koehring with air over hydraulic sticks that one is a tough tractor to pickup on. The Input on the controls takes seconds for any reactions on the boom ,stick or bucket.
Many years ago when I started as a new operator I had an older very experienced operator tell me, if you eat with your right hand you should also grade with that hand... in other words whichever is your dominant hand is the one that should be running the boom to do your fine grading
What about JCB backhoes? They are SAE but not 12-6 o o’clock. They are crossed inwards. So arm up is 4 o o’clock. Arm down is 10 o clock on left hand lever and stick out is 10 o clock and stick in is 4o clock on right hand lever.
It’s SAE but work in cross pattern at diagonals. So to grade in towards machine left lever is pulled to 8 o’clock and right hand lever pulled to 4 o’clock rather than both at 6 o’clock
Superb explanation... It's like we are more alike coz I'm really comfortable with using the ISO control but I have been offered a backhoe job and the machine is Cat426F2. it is typically in SAE but I want to change it to ISO but I can't find the switch. I will be glad if you can help me with it.
Many years ago when I started as a new operator I had an older very experienced operator tell me, if you eat with your right hand you should also grade with that hand... in other words whichever is your dominant hand is the one that should be running the boom to do your fine grading
For some reason, our mini-x has four settings but when we got it we were used to our John Deere backhoe, so we tried to find that setting but the closest we found was ISO so I have no clue what the other three are. We haven't played around with them since that.
I'd advise anyone wanting to learn to learn on the cat controls as an operator almost no one can run backhoe controls and you'll be the odd one out which isn't anything bad but you'll always be switching the machines controls over when someone uses it no to mention on new cat machines the setting to swap the controls is on the dash screen and not a valve anymore and if your unfamiliar with going in on the settings and changing the controls on the screen it'll take a min to figure out. Might as well learn on the standard everyone uses
When I started working construction in the 80's there were 3 controls. Deere, Cat and Case on backhoes and Deere or Cat on excavators. When I first learned to use a backhoe I was on ranches using tractors from the 60's and where I grew up they were all Deere, so when I went to work it was super easy for me to just use Deere controls on everything. In the 90's till now there has been a pretty steady move away from Deere controls so I had to get good using either style, was like batting lefty, it felt uncomfortable. Now after 35+ years running anything and everything it takes me about 30 seconds to get my head in the right frame of mind and then I go right along....I still prefer the Deere for some reason and on my own equipment everything is set for Deere, though switching to Cat is easy enough if someone is running my iron.
I have seen some videos explaining the SAE control pattern, and on some of them they say the left hand joystick controls the swing and stick, and the right hand one controls the boom and bucket, just like on the ISO. That cant be right?
Yeah...that’s wrong. That’s a big reason why we did this video because I’ve seen a lot of incorrect information out there. That is the ISO pattern you are referring to when stick is on the left joystick, boom is the right joystick. We are certain our video is accurate, also why we even showed images of the actual factory graphic cards verifying that terminology.
I perfer using my left control to swing the machine around and raise and lower the boom and my right hand to tilt the bucket and move the jib part of the boom back and forth its how they are in all the ones ive seen
i learned on a case 580 4 stick , and got so used to john deere pilot controls , now i cant even run a case 4 stick and cat controls forget about that i feel lost running those , any tips and trick to relearn to run all 3?
You should try Mitsubishi control pattern if you think that's confusing.. I learned in a Mitsubishi and have my newer diggers that pattern.. unlearning it seems impossible
swing and stick are same every where in excavator? actually im working in Qatar and here is same as u showed us. but someone says that it is work opposit each other in there country. sorry my English is weak but I hope u will understand.reply must I will be thankful to you sir...
Not sure I understand the question. The swing can not be switched, it is always the left joystick. The stick and boom can be swamped between left and right joysticks based on running ISO or SAE. Hope that makes sense.
@@HeavyMetalLearning Sir,Thanks for the reply.so if we replace their hydraulic pipes to each other. i mean swing and stick connections. then how it will be..?
I guess, yes if you actually re-piped the hydraulics you could do anything. Not something I would recommend though and not sure what the benefit would be.
Not sure exactly, but I would either look in the engine compartment by the hydraulics pump for a valve there. OR I have seen a valve compartment underneath the mat in the operators compartment. Otherwise just check the manual.
Shouldn't matter what brand, almost all newer excavators (less than 10 years old or so), should have a valve like described in this video to change the pattern.
Am I the only one here finding out the ISO pattern is SAE pattern. Why ? I’ve been researching online. Some source says an “ISO”pattern is SAE. And the other says SAE IS SAE. DO you know what I mean? I hope you do.
Great question....don’t know exactly, but seems like there is always someone that wants to do things a little “different”. I think ISO is the most common and best to learn.
@@HeavyMetalLearning -- By allowing it to switch, you might accommodate operators who have one arm that has limited mobility due to an injury. Whichever controls they use the most could be put on the side with the more healthy arm. And just like some people are right eye or left eye dominant while shooting (even though they might not be the same side handed, maybe that happens with excavator operators. More than likely it is because you have someone who started out on backhoes and eventually moved up to excavators. Besides, once one company provided that capability and put it in their marketing, his competitors would have been asked if they had that feature also, so to be competitive, they would have to add it also.
@@HeavyMetalLearning Cat followed the crane operating standard with boom on the right hand. Us older farm boys all started out 45 years ago on old JD 690 chain drive excavators with 2 ft long control handles. And, not all excavators (older machines) can be switched around without moving hoses like the new excavators of today.
@@xxxmikeyjock I also run John Deere / ISO. Can you share with me why you think it's better? A kid that I'm teaching to run excavator, or who wants to learn is full of questions. On our particular job site I shine because the old John Deere backhoe sitting there nobody can run it but me. Let me know what your opinion is
@@rexfknwetzel7162 ISO is a more natural digging motion with your right hand, your left just controls the pressure. I teach people to use CAT/SAE controls though as it is the industry favoured pattern and the oil field companies demand its use. at work I try and switch the pattern back to CAT every time I leave the seat, I think there are only two of us on JD/ISO
There is definitely a lot of confusion with this matter. You have John Deere, or excavator, SAE, or ISO, CAT, or Backhoe??? I am a heavy equipment operator and instructor and I have been in the business since 1983 and around equipment my whole life because of my dad. After watching your video I had to check myself. I put together a presentation for my class two years ago to clarify this subject. My information said SAE was boom on the right and stick on the left, and ISO was boom on the left and stick on the right. So I did more research and found lot's of conflicting info: ISO boom on the left, ISO Boom on the right. So I reached out to Caterpillar Technical Support and they sent me a copy of CAT's official position ( Caterpillar is SAE with boom on the right and stick on the left) problem solved right? Not so fast. Just for kicks I reached out to Komatsu and they also sent me their info and Komatsu's official position was ( Komatsu is ISO Boom on the right and stick on the left). Caterpillar and Komatsu are not on the same page I don't feel so bad. The only thing I could do now would be to reach out to The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and someone with International Organization for Standards (ISO) see, even their name doesn't make sense!! and see what they say. I will keep ya posted Well done video:)
Thanks. I would be interested to see the info you got back from the OEM. I agree there is definitely a lot of confusion out there which is why we put together this video. I also wanted to try and get ahold of the SAE standards but they charge for that info which is crazy. If you find any more details please email us info@heavymetallearning.com because I would love to share. Thanks for the work on that!
@@HeavyMetalLearning I thought the same thing , when I looked on The SAE's website and they wanted to charge me for information Needless to say I was a little put out and didn't chase it any further. When I get some more info I will get back with you.
I used to run cat controls but in the logging industry it’s all John Deere style set up so I run that only took me about a few days to get it down but for some track chippers to swing the boom it’s at your feet then the swing for a trackhoe is to open and close the grapple and the right one is to spin the grapple some are different but usually always at your feet is how you swing that’s the older style chippers only way to Change it is to move hoses around but the newest one I run is John Deere and they have buttons for spinning the grapple for a fellerbuncher you pull in the boom goes out but John Deere control style set up for like log trucks to swing it’s at your feet too just the swing that usually is to swing a trackhoe is to spin the grapple and then the right one closes the grapple I ran into all different styles set ups for me
@@HeavyMetalLearning If memory serves (long time ago), the old Drott rubber tire excavators had 4 or 5 levers on the floor that you ran with your feet, 3 hand manipulated levers and a steering wheel. The OP is most likely referring to the old 4 lever foot-swing case backhoes.
Man it’s tough to learn one once you get used to the other. I learned on a backhoe and ran one for years, but now I work at a place where they don’t own a single backhoe, it’s all caterpillar excavators. I get made fun of for having to switch the controls every time I get in one lol, so I’m trying to teach myself ISO controls. It’s not easy though
YES! I find having the far functions grouped and the close functions grouped makes sense. I'm predominantly right handed. It feels like the stick becomes my forearm and the bucket is my hand/wrist.
But I learn it like an ISO. The different is on the Left Control. My swing right is foward, swing left move backward. Turn right will close the stick/arm, turn left open the stick/arm. Right Joystick still same. 🤷🤷
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The way I feel about ISO vs. SAE is the same as being left or right handed. It's about the way your brain works in order to deliver the action. One way will feel FAR more natural to you than the other. Just the same as writing with a pencil.
Good comparison...thanks for sharing!
I feel the same I’m a sae guy I’m slow with iso
@@squatchknifeandforge4586 😅
Whats a pencil?
SAE is like operating backwards to me! ISO is so much more natural to your hand and ass movements! It's all about the feel in your body! If ya aren't feeling it in your hands And body, it's not going to work well for you! It's all about the FEEL!!!!!
For anyone interested, if you run a skid loader in iso, you’re going to feel more comfortable running an excavator in sae because you’re familiar working with your right hand. If you run H pattern in a loader the iso in an excavator is going to feel familiar.
Most people start in a skid and iso is easier to pick up, sae in an excavator works similar to what you learned in the loader so the learning curve is quicker.
Started using an excavator last week at my school's heavy equipment program. I so far have been using SAE and personally it feels nice to be able to bring the stick back and curl the bucket with the same joystick.
it is the better control scheme
This is the only way that I can actually control the thing LOL. The only time I control them in Cat controls is when I'm loading them on a lowboy to transport and even that is weird LOL. Once you learn one way it's almost impossible to learn the other
First excavator I operated was in SAE, so I learned it and operated it for couple of years. After selling it I only realize that everybody arond me is using ISO. Its a real strugle to learn ISO now when Im used to SAE...
I learned to run JCB backhoes over 30 years ago in the UK they were JD controls but on an x pattern instead of + . I moved to Canada and didn't run a machine for over 10 years. I was asked to repair a Hitachi excavator on cat controls that I'd never run before. The only instruction was it's in the field "you'll figure out running it" and diagnose the cooling problem. Ok i figured out the pattern ran it less than 4 minutes doing good. Then suddenly the JD pattern came back in my head and I couldn't run it after that as I had to start thinking about it. The real funny thing was 6 years further on after not running anything after that day. I bought a JCB backhoe loader and operating it the first day was like i'd never been off it for all those years. My dad even said when he was watching wow that's like the learning to ride a bike , you never forget once you learned.
Good video. This guy knows ISO vs SAE. There is confusion out there! Just boom and stick change. I saw one video which said curl and swing are reversed!
The farm that I started working on had “ rubber tire hoes” and “track hoes” when you jump from one piece of equipment to the other several times a day it just makes it easier and safer to have the controls set the same, the guys in the hole don’t have to worry about getting slammed with a bucket.
thanks for the comment!
Thanks .. When I bought my jd 410 and the first thing I did to teach my self was to boom all the way down, stick all out, bucket level on ground .. Then Boom up so the bucket is a foot off the ground then bring it in level, maintaining the one foot clearance to the ground. Do that 10 times. Seems to work, I got my wife to learn that way and my grandson.
Awesome tip....thanks for sharing!
I can run both, it took a few years of switching back and forth. My boss bought a pc160 set up in sae, and no way to switch it other than swapping hoses. I’m the beginning if I progressed on sae I regressed on iso. But eventually I mastered both 👍🏼
Ive been running SAE for 20yrs sometimes Im switching it to ISO to learn the controls it will come handy in the future.
Wow you hit it! We used to buy John Deere shovels and tell them to switch the valve hoses too iso before we received machine! That was years ago, now you can usually hit a switch in the cab and bang iso! I personally get flustered trying to run sae
thanks for the comment
Would it not make sense to just switch depending on your dominant hand? ie, use the dominant hand for stick and bucket as these are the 'business end' where finer control is desirable.
Thanks for the video... definitely cleared up my confusion. Always wondered why I can drive an exavator just fine yet always struggle on my papas 1970s JD backhoe. Could never tell why It is so hard for me to do the backhoe and started to think it's because I'm used to turning with the boom (I never realized it was the controls...I only get to drive the exavator about once a year when we rent it and I usually only drive the backhoe about twice a year). Thanks very much for this...I feel much better now! Lol
Yup...thanks for the comment!
I like the way you change it on new machines, if you have an old machine like mine, you have to swap hose's. Fun.
I can operate both, but have gotten to like SAE (John Deere) better. Lifting & swinging is one hand operation.
I Learnt on Backhoes as a kid but can switch to ISO if required but it takes time and concentration to avoid mistakes. Personally I feel that SAE makes more sense as it puts both digging "force" operations i.e. bucket and stick/dipper on one hand while using you left hand for the "balance" operation i.e. Boom to get your cut level neat. It comes down to what you learn first but I still think logically SAE is a more ergonomic pattern and generally easier to operate well.
Thanks for sharing!
Everyone complains that so many of the new operators suck compared to the older operator. I run SAE myself and the bucket and stick feels like my forearm and hand. Sometimes I think so many newer operators suck because they're teaching the wrong pattern 🤷♂️
Very interesting and informative - Thanks!
You’re welcome...thanks for the comment!
@@HeavyMetalLearning very interested
My JCB has a toggle switch on the right side and you can switch midstream if its touched, I almost tore off the side of a house when my water bottle fell on it switching it to SAE , so no more water while working the controls.
I have to spend an hour reprogramming my brain to run ISO. My machines are set to SAE but neither has the valve to switch. My son ran a hammer for months on ISO and now he cant run sae anymore and gets frustrated trying. With 20 plus years experience and a worker with 35 years experience we are old dogs so we are sticking with sae.
I can run both efficiently. Just taught myself to instead of digging for valves. ISO is standard but, imo if someone is new try and learn both patterns.. With time and experience it will be helpful and you definitely will be more worthy when its pay scale time. Especially when you get around older iron that doesnt have a pattern valve. Great explanation video for beginners though.
thanks for the comment
Likewise my brother.
You can really get good on a excavator after you run an older Case 880 or Massey Ferguson MF450 for years and years.
Foot controls along with hand stick controls.
And if you are old enough to remember running a 1066 koehring with air over hydraulic sticks that one is a tough tractor to pickup on. The Input on the controls takes seconds for any reactions on the boom ,stick or bucket.
Thanks for the comment!
I hope the UK komatsu have that switch.. I could mess some people up with that!
I was just thinking man I could really mess with some operators at work
Yep, any newer machine (within last 5 years at least) will have that valve. And yes, definitely messes with ya.
That would be a classic prank! Like changing the mouse settings to left handed.
Messing with things like that ( for a joke ) can get people getting hurt.
Sorry if im too serious today 😇
Many years ago when I started as a new operator I had an older very experienced operator tell me, if you eat with your right hand you should also grade with that hand... in other words whichever is your dominant hand is the one that should be running the boom to do your fine grading
What about JCB backhoes? They are SAE but not 12-6 o o’clock. They are crossed inwards. So arm up is 4 o o’clock. Arm down is 10 o clock on left hand lever and stick out is 10 o clock and stick in is 4o clock on right hand lever.
Ok....now I’m confused! JCB runs same pattern options, ISO and SAE.
It’s SAE but work in cross pattern at diagonals. So to grade in towards machine left lever is pulled to 8 o’clock and right hand lever pulled to 4 o’clock rather than both at 6 o’clock
Verry imformative learning thanks more power
Thanks for the comment!
Superb explanation... It's like we are more alike coz I'm really comfortable with using the ISO control but I have been offered a backhoe job and the machine is Cat426F2. it is typically in SAE but I want to change it to ISO but I can't find the switch. I will be glad if you can help me with it.
I learnt something today, thank you.
The way of ur explaining is nice bro I like SAE methad because basically JCB oprater
Our PC-360, PC-450, and PC-490 have the switch behind the cab. Just a heads up if the switch isn’t in the door.
Thanks for sharing!
I prefer issaoe, ford controls, hell I even prefer a shovel to case’s dumb controls with foot swing! Thanks for another great video
Thanks for the comment!
Thansk for all this video grate presentations. Hope tomorrows l can apply this in may tradtes of may company for operator
Thanks for the comment!
Many years ago when I started as a new operator I had an older very experienced operator tell me, if you eat with your right hand you should also grade with that hand... in other words whichever is your dominant hand is the one that should be running the boom to do your fine grading
For some reason, our mini-x has four settings but when we got it we were used to our John Deere backhoe, so we tried to find that setting but the closest we found was ISO so I have no clue what the other three are. We haven't played around with them since that.
That is unusual. I wonder if the other settings change up the thumb and backhoe swing...or something like that.
Wonder if you have a Mitsubishi pattern In there.. it's iso only completely back to front, like swoping hands .. what kinda digger is it?
I'm completely left handed, so SAE seems absolutely natural to me. I'm a beginner so I'll see how I feel with ISO first.
I'm a lefty and SAE is ass backwards
I'd advise anyone wanting to learn to learn on the cat controls as an operator almost no one can run backhoe controls and you'll be the odd one out which isn't anything bad but you'll always be switching the machines controls over when someone uses it no to mention on new cat machines the setting to swap the controls is on the dash screen and not a valve anymore and if your unfamiliar with going in on the settings and changing the controls on the screen it'll take a min to figure out. Might as well learn on the standard everyone uses
Im left handed and i always use sae. I dont know if it’s because im left handed but i feel that is more natural
Ayubowan ( its Sri Lankan Welcome)
Good video
When I started working construction in the 80's there were 3 controls. Deere, Cat and Case on backhoes and Deere or Cat on excavators. When I first learned to use a backhoe I was on ranches using tractors from the 60's and where I grew up they were all Deere, so when I went to work it was super easy for me to just use Deere controls on everything. In the 90's till now there has been a pretty steady move away from Deere controls so I had to get good using either style, was like batting lefty, it felt uncomfortable. Now after 35+ years running anything and everything it takes me about 30 seconds to get my head in the right frame of mind and then I go right along....I still prefer the Deere for some reason and on my own equipment everything is set for Deere, though switching to Cat is easy enough if someone is running my iron.
Thank you!
I'm just trying to figure out what hardware to use for Construction Simulator '15
Im good at SAE excavator , still learning ISO , im bad at it
Very helpful. 👍
I'm a John Deere control user. The stick that he's referring to is technically called the crowd
I have seen some videos explaining the SAE control pattern, and on some of them they say the left hand joystick controls the swing and stick, and the right hand one controls the boom and bucket, just like on the ISO. That cant be right?
Yeah...that’s wrong. That’s a big reason why we did this video because I’ve seen a lot of incorrect information out there. That is the ISO pattern you are referring to when stick is on the left joystick, boom is the right joystick. We are certain our video is accurate, also why we even showed images of the actual factory graphic cards verifying that terminology.
@@HeavyMetalLearning Yeah. You guys do a great job down there! Keep it up!
Great job
Many thanks!
You're welcome!
ISO more familiar tjan SAE but i had opetate KOMATSO w/ two function just adjust the system
Yeah, everyone has their own preference.
Hello you, i learn more from your video, thank you very much.
What does mean pc 210?
that's just the model number. Typically it represents the weight of the machine.
Needed this
Don’t know if it has to do with “handedness” but I am left handed primarily and I find SAE most comfortable and fast for me.
Im sae and right handed
I perfer using my left control to swing the machine around and raise and lower the boom and my right hand to tilt the bucket and move the jib part of the boom back and forth its how they are in all the ones ive seen
That is SAE or John deere
It IS confusing There are several diagrams online that contradict this one. I think I'll just call it "boom on the right mode".
i learned on a case 580 4 stick , and got so used to john deere pilot controls , now i cant even run a case 4 stick and cat controls forget about that i feel lost running those , any tips and trick to relearn to run all 3?
You should try Mitsubishi control pattern if you think that's confusing.. I learned in a Mitsubishi and have my newer diggers that pattern.. unlearning it seems impossible
What is that pattern?
@@HeavyMetalLearning it's the same as iso only in the wrong hands , like crossing you're arms
Sit your guidence work is good
Thank you!
Thanks ur vids are really helpful
Would a cat 307c have changeable pattern?2007
Hmmm...not sure on that one. Check manual if you can find it. Otherwise look in compartment right behind operators seat and look for a valve to swap.
I wish I would have learned iso 1st I only know SAE aka backhoe controls. I tried iso and it looked like I did not know what I was doing
Why is it called John Deere or backhoe? Does the mean all JDs and backhoe operates like this?
I learned to operate on SAE..
Hundreds of hours on a backhoe, glad you can switch to that. It would be a nightmare to try to reprogram all that muscle memory.
swing and stick are same every where in excavator? actually im working in Qatar and here is same as u showed us. but someone says that it is work opposit each other in there country. sorry my English is weak but I hope u will understand.reply must I will be thankful to you sir...
Not sure I understand the question. The swing can not be switched, it is always the left joystick. The stick and boom can be swamped between left and right joysticks based on running ISO or SAE. Hope that makes sense.
@@HeavyMetalLearning
Sir,Thanks for the reply.so if we replace their hydraulic pipes to each other. i mean swing and stick connections. then how it will be..?
I guess, yes if you actually re-piped the hydraulics you could do anything. Not something I would recommend though and not sure what the benefit would be.
Do you know how to change controls on a cat 335
Not sure exactly, but I would either look in the engine compartment by the hydraulics pump for a valve there. OR I have seen a valve compartment underneath the mat in the operators compartment. Otherwise just check the manual.
So iso is cat controls?
How to change hitachi 180 lc and jcb 210 paterns?
Shouldn't matter what brand, almost all newer excavators (less than 10 years old or so), should have a valve like described in this video to change the pattern.
How In Cat 308BSR ??? How To Switch The Operating Cable ?
Am I the only one here finding out the ISO pattern is SAE pattern. Why ? I’ve been researching online. Some source says an “ISO”pattern is SAE. And the other says SAE IS SAE. DO you know what I mean? I hope you do.
If you want to go up and turn left and the same time only you do it with you left hand in cat you need do it with 2 hands
Why both SAE and ISO modes are present in a machine??
Great question....don’t know exactly, but seems like there is always someone that wants to do things a little “different”. I think ISO is the most common and best to learn.
@@HeavyMetalLearning -- By allowing it to switch, you might accommodate operators who have one arm that has limited mobility due to an injury. Whichever controls they use the most could be put on the side with the more healthy arm. And just like some people are right eye or left eye dominant while shooting (even though they might not be the same side handed, maybe that happens with excavator operators. More than likely it is because you have someone who started out on backhoes and eventually moved up to excavators. Besides, once one company provided that capability and put it in their marketing, his competitors would have been asked if they had that feature also, so to be competitive, they would have to add it also.
@@HeavyMetalLearning Cat followed the crane operating standard with boom on the right hand. Us older farm boys all started out 45 years ago on old JD 690 chain drive excavators with 2 ft long control handles.
And, not all excavators (older machines) can be switched around without moving hoses like the new excavators of today.
How about Northwest controls? Lol. That is a right hand swing.
Where can I get trained
SAE for me. 4 stick case also.
I think it's all about what you learned on...I don't think there is any one right way.
What is the ISO standard number and the SAE standard number that this information is referenced to?
Great question. We tried to do research on this but could never find it. Would love for anyone to share if they find it.
www.sae.org/standards/content/j1814_200303/ he didnt look hard as it is on wiki. IMO they have it backwards. I run JD/ISO
@@xxxmikeyjock I also run John Deere / ISO. Can you share with me why you think it's better? A kid that I'm teaching to run excavator, or who wants to learn is full of questions. On our particular job site I shine because the old John Deere backhoe sitting there nobody can run it but me. Let me know what your opinion is
@@rexfknwetzel7162 ISO is a more natural digging motion with your right hand, your left just controls the pressure. I teach people to use CAT/SAE controls though as it is the industry favoured pattern and the oil field companies demand its use. at work I try and switch the pattern back to CAT every time I leave the seat, I think there are only two of us on JD/ISO
@@xxxmikeyjock I agree sir thank you
There is definitely a lot of confusion with this matter. You have John Deere, or excavator, SAE, or ISO, CAT, or Backhoe??? I am a heavy equipment operator and instructor and I have been in the business since 1983 and around equipment my whole life because of my dad.
After watching your video I had to check myself. I put together a presentation for my class two years ago to clarify this subject. My information said SAE was boom on the right and stick on the left, and ISO was boom on the left and stick on the right. So I did more research and found lot's of conflicting info: ISO boom on the left, ISO Boom on the right. So I reached out to Caterpillar Technical Support and they sent me a copy of CAT's official position ( Caterpillar is SAE with boom on the right and stick on the left) problem solved right? Not so fast.
Just for kicks I reached out to Komatsu and they also sent me their info and Komatsu's official position was ( Komatsu is ISO Boom on the right and stick on the left). Caterpillar and Komatsu are not on the same page I don't feel so bad.
The only thing I could do now would be to reach out to The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and someone with International Organization for Standards (ISO) see, even their name doesn't make sense!! and see what they say. I will keep ya posted
Well done video:)
Thanks. I would be interested to see the info you got back from the OEM. I agree there is definitely a lot of confusion out there which is why we put together this video. I also wanted to try and get ahold of the SAE standards but they charge for that info which is crazy. If you find any more details please email us info@heavymetallearning.com because I would love to share. Thanks for the work on that!
@@HeavyMetalLearning I thought the same thing , when I looked on The SAE's website and they wanted to charge me for information Needless to say I was a little put out and didn't chase it any further. When I get some more info I will get back with you.
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On John Deere new excavators they use iso as there standard pattern
Yeah...almost all new machines have the ability to switch patterns easily.
I can run both its not really that hard for me but everyone has a preference
I used to run cat controls but in the logging industry it’s all John Deere style set up so I run that only took me about a few days to get it down but for some track chippers to swing the boom it’s at your feet then the swing for a trackhoe is to open and close the grapple and the right one is to spin the grapple some are different but usually always at your feet is how you swing that’s the older style chippers only way to Change it is to move hoses around but the newest one I run is John Deere and they have buttons for spinning the grapple for a fellerbuncher you pull in the boom goes out but John Deere control style set up for like log trucks to swing it’s at your feet too just the swing that usually is to swing a trackhoe is to spin the grapple and then the right one closes the grapple I ran into all different styles set ups for me
Interesting...thanks for info
can you change this on any backhoe?
Yes, most newer backhoes have the option to flip between ISO and SAE controls as well.
@@HeavyMetalLearning as far as john deer they run iso correct the old ones?
oscar de la torre not sure on older ones.
Can also change it By changing lines around.
Caterpillar backhoes also following SAE!!
And s then there’s sae, jcb x pattern and that’s deere on an x pattern and that really messes with your head
I'm already confused.
ExtremeSandbox I’ll send a picture on Facebook
I can run both but I can tell you right now I can move more dirt in jd controls vs someone on cat controls. Hands dow
Let’s put $5 on it 😂
The meaning of I. S. O and the S. A. E control patterns
what about 4 stick case controls
4 stick case controls? On an excavator? Every excavator I'm ever been in just has the 2 joysticks and 2 track paddles
@@HeavyMetalLearning I'm thinking backhoes
@@HeavyMetalLearning If memory serves (long time ago), the old Drott rubber tire excavators had 4 or 5 levers on the floor that you ran with your feet, 3 hand manipulated levers and a steering wheel. The OP is most likely referring to the old 4 lever foot-swing case backhoes.
I learned between ISO and SAE
Man it’s tough to learn one once you get used to the other. I learned on a backhoe and ran one for years, but now I work at a place where they don’t own a single backhoe, it’s all caterpillar excavators. I get made fun of for having to switch the controls every time I get in one lol, so I’m trying to teach myself ISO controls. It’s not easy though
For me it's impossible LOL. It's like trying to ride a bicycle backwards like he said.
Hi love your channel I'm just getting into 360 operation can all machines be switched from iso to sae without changing the hydraulic pipes?
Yes, most of the newer machines (prob within last 10 years) have a valve to be able to switch.
Its safer to put the swing in the right side, when operator forget the lever lock this is always the cause of acciden
I don’t know why but I thought excavator has H pattern
I can study online?if yes how and i will gat certificate
Sorry Jimmy, the majority of our training is at our US based sites so you would need to be here.
I use iso but when you swing you push it
SAE is more more intuitive in my opinion
Yeah, I can see how some people see that. I just think it's personal preference and there's really no "right" way. Thanks for the comment!
YES! I find having the far functions grouped and the close functions grouped makes sense. I'm predominantly right handed. It feels like the stick becomes my forearm and the bucket is my hand/wrist.
Cat pattens feels like you use two hands to take a cup of water john deere pattern feel you can doit with one hand.
But I learn it like an ISO. The different is on the Left Control. My swing right is foward, swing left move backward. Turn right will close the stick/arm, turn left open the stick/arm. Right Joystick still same. 🤷🤷
To ease confusion it's cat or John deere. Nobody is going to know iso on any site I've been on
i use to get each of them mixed up
Yeah...it's pretty common!
@@HeavyMetalLearning yea. thanks
very cool michinery
Cat simply makes more sense. Two connecting joints on the same stick.
Can I Share Your Video In My Channel??
Im from Bangladesh ❤
Please do...thanks!
@@HeavyMetalLearning welcome Sir! Love From BD🇧🇩
Good very o
Thanks!
You didnt ruin it... i was on a jobsite and i needed answers asap on a Kamatsu 360... which btw the lever is on top next to the hydro reservoir
Yeah, valves can be in different spots depending on the model.
I don't have any option from india
Interesting
Stick with whatever you learned with