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GamerGate 2.0 - PART 1- Know your past - GamerGate Post Mortem 2014-2015
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- Опубликовано: 13 авг 2024
- This is my attempt to grapple with the events unfolding in what is currently being dubbed as "Gamergate 2.0" We are starting with a full analysis of events from GamerGate (2014-2015)
Part 2 is here: • GamerGate 2.0 - PART 2...
This video covers, Depression quest, Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, Feminism the Zoepost and the GamerGate wikipedia page.
Please keep things civil and respectful in the comments.
I believe that I name all my sources as I go, but if there's one that you want to know about in particular chuck it in the pinned comments.
00:00 Editor note
1:09 Intro
2:47 Depression Quest and Zoe Quinn
11:31 The Review Problem
14:08 Gamespot - Kane and Lynch review
15:12 Anita Sarkeesian
17:56 Anita Sarkeesian - Feminism according to Feminist Frequency
26:18 Anita Sarkeesian - Money for nothing
27:16 Tropes vs women in video games analysis
30:15 Anita Sarkeesian aftermath
33:08 Nathan Grayson - Heroes of the storm interview
37:29 The ZoePost - event and character analysis
40:06 Gamergate wikipedia page propaganda
TO BE CONTINUED
Hey, Thanks for watching, lets keep discussions civil. Any questions let me know, I'm more than happy to answer if I can.
PART 2 is here: ruclips.net/video/y3e6NFdFi4A/видео.html
This is a fairly decent overview of events. A bit analytic on the history of feminism... And not enough mention of a particular radicalized activism engrossed forum that really led the charge here though. I dont think this story can really be told without acknowledging how insane ResetEra was... Also, we need to acknowledge the MeToo movement.
@@secondleasegamer8312 Thanks man, that's a fair criticism. I felt like I needed to explain the history of feminism what it is and isn't so that I don't simply get labelled a sexist... which will happen anyways, but alas, that's where it comes from. The MeToo movement definitely enabled bad actors as well as exposing them but I do need to draw a starting ling somewhere. Like I said, I wasn't involved in gamergate so 90% of my research is retrospective, I know of ResetEra, and while the idea of their involvement in anti gamergate tactics is extremely plausible I didn't find any evidence of it. That said, as this is an ongoing series, if new information arises and I think that is adds context rather than confuses things then I'd be happy to add it. I'll have a look around, though feel free to point me in the right direction.
It's kinda crazy how we can even talk about this now. Back in the day you would find discussion on gamergate that wasn't entierly negative only in the most radical corners, the only person at the time who was mainstream who talked about the ethical problems that the game reviewers are involved in was TotalBiscuit. But the games media has become so unhinged so completely divorced from the subject matter they are suppost to review and what average people think, that it has become more and more acceptable to call them out on their bullshit.
TotalBuscuits (RIP) was the one so broke the ranks and leaked the e-mail saying that gaming publications were to say gamers were dead. He was one of the unsung heroes and catalyst of the movement.
As someone who completely ignored everything about gamergate it was super interesting to hear a historical retelling of the situation and I'm looking forward to the remaining part(s). Love your videos, keep it up!
I played Depression Quest when I was among my lowest in Depression. I was quite desperate at that time for any kind of connection, understanding, and I got it recommended to me. I like games with choice.
But that "game" was just insulting. This is not how depression works, this is how people who are sad and pretend to have depression think depression works.
You're not alone, a lot of the steam reviewers were depressed people that felt misrepresented. I hope you're doing better these days, I know that kind of thing never leaves you totally.
Cant wait to tell my Grandkids about being a Veteran of Gamergate 1 and 2
😅
Thank you so much for doing this. I had a cursory understanding of gamer gate, but 90% of the contents of this video I was unfamiliar with. This has been extremely informative and I very much appreciate your honest and fair assessment of the events. Keep it up and I look forward to part two.
If you want a more conjuctural read, there is a 2 hour long video on the SideScrollers Podcast where Dev (Short Fat Otaku) gives a thorough read of the events of GG 1.
It'll show you a web of lies, sexual favors and networking that will show you videogame journalism and the "diversity consulting" industry are pretty much in her together, figuratively speak if not perhaps literally. And like a proper mafia with their protection money racket, they have costed a few innocent people their actual lives.
you also are unaware of the actual gamergate, because it has been memoryholed so thoroughly that this guy doesn't even know about it, he thinks it's about a few positive reviews for a shitty game.
totally useless vidoe that might as well be pure propaganda by omission. go back and watch the original cameralady breakdown for the real story.
@@doltBmB So what is the reason for it dude? Like, I was there and his facts are pretty darn straight. I see no reason to be hating on the video less you actually know something he's withholding.
@@jamesrosenbaum8770 I told you go back and watch the original cameralady breakdown
@@doltBmB well it is part one, I'm already aware of plenty of other things that weren't covered here which I'm assuming he's getting to.
I just submitted my college english midterm paper on Gamergate this week. I must say, I have never been more mentally drained than after researching this insane movement.
I defenitely feel that.
Why would you choose that subject?
I can't imagine- amateurish 'research' i've been doing for personal interest is already difficult- god what will I do when I go to college?
@@Saint_Wolf_ We had to write about a controversy and chose it because of the recent "Gamergate 2" situation
damn i really would like to read that...
Are games became better or worse after gamer gate?
Are game journalism became better or worse?
Are general "gamer" behaviour became better or worse?
I think it's the most important questions. It's not about the exact events, but the consequences.
And my answers are: AAA became worse, indie became better.
Game journalism as bad as it was, but lost popularity and influence on a gamedev and gamers.
Gamers became self aware and more friendly towards each other.
Not criticising you, but like AverageGame said "who are these gamers?"
The unfriendly gamers are either still there or matured and other younger unfriendly regrow, IMO.
I'm extrapolating from online ranked (which is for me the core of salty online people).
gamers have not gotten more friendly there's just more people. yeah, most people dont care about race or sexuality but too much of gaming being dominated by straight white males is why casual racism and sexism is rampant to the point its not taken seriously and the shits annoying because its the same logic incels that havent realized none of the shit there saying online is a joke or funny use to validate why acting like this is fine. theres zero reason a hobby we as gamers claim is inclusive has the barrier of if you arent the average white dude you kinda gotta be fine with hopping to a lobby and being called slurs by people who dont know or care if they apply to you. hell its not even just crap directed at you by your team take a game like overwatch or apex games with a diverse cast both racially and gender wise, games that show the inclusivity we preach about having as gamers but in practice gamer to gamer its completely different. the entirety of catalysts season was wierdos complaining about trans people being in the game after they ran out of slurs they thought would be funny. im not trans or part of the lgbtq but being black and asian and hearing stupid race based bullshit can fully see how soul crushing it is to be told you favorite hobby is super and inclusive but know deep down its not the majority just doesn't take the shit seriously because being called a slur when you both white and 12 is funny but its devasting when your the extra in the party realizing your not gonna have friends or teammates when you call them out and 1 of them doubles down before you get kicked out the party for the 6th time today...so no gamers haven't gotten more friendly especially if the usual response is "you wouldn't survive old black ops lobbies...back when gaming was less diverse and the slurs applied to less of the people getting hit by them"
Main thing to come out of gamer gate is that the journalists lost a lot of power they held initially and secondly gamers became aware of the bullshit these self proclaimed journalists did and said and the manipulative things Zoe and Anita did
The clip where Anita says everything is sexist, everything is racist etc. is framed really poorly. In it, she's describing her younger self when she was overly inquisitive about bigotry in the context of making fun of herself about her blind zealotry. Not sure if you're aware of that context and i wanted to let you know.
Proof?
"It's impossible for a woman to be sexist to a man." -- Anita Sarkeesian. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, not all of it is justifiable, but Anita earned at least some of the treatment she got with statements like that, and just her general attitude towards people pointing out the flaws in her arguments. Identity politics was just taking off at the time, and people listening to the main news outlets didn't know any better. As you said, Sarkeesian played her woman card every chance she got to shut down any arguments.
Gamers were already dumped on by just about every other segment of society just for gaming itself, being told to grow up, get rid of the toys or you'll never amount to anything, then gaming coming under assault by idiots in governments trying to say video games cause violence in the early 90's, then finally add in Sarkeesian's nonsensical arguments to the mix and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Gamers had enough of the assault on a simple thing that we did for our own enjoyment, and it truly seeming like crack dealers, and murders were getting more respect than we did. Sarkeesian kicked an already angry hornets nest, and while I'm not going to condone all of the things done in retaliation, I will also not condone any of what she and her ilk did as none of it was and is at all warranted.
Yeah, that's what I don't get in these kind of situations. You have an ignorant person doing horible stuff or statements and then people go pikachu face if it escalates.
I personally do also think that Gamergate is a big mess that even /V/ barely could recover its relevance, although it does set bad precedence for certain Western developers to gradually burn out game developer veterans and replaces it with checklists while polarising further video game fans and consumerbase in The West, hence why you see further stacks of layers of declining in quality to the point that all of us are embracing gacha games produced by Japanese, Chinese and South Korean game developers, especially during pandemic when Genshin's craze was a thing and further exposure of players to Honkai IP (which have their own subsets of separate diverging dramas differently to each games' fandoms and segmented further fandoms as things gets more complicated in current internet age)
And I'm not even starting of how some of the pro-Gamergate have new buzzwords as offensive slurs to latch on with outrage culture that contraries to them reacting in constant feedback loop of just obnoxious afterwards (which probably also unintentionally those that would throw slurs and insults at each other, it's a massive headache
And I'm not even American, nor European, nor Westerner of any kind so offensive things doesn't even matter, it's just Westerners in general have thin-skinned while having audacity to impoverished its own citizens with whatever excuses and facades of [insert colour]washings they can conveniently uses now and get away very, very easily with it
Absolutely true
I think it's important to note that 99.9% of gamers never gave a fuck about any of this on either side
Either side? What were the sides?
Amazing video. I'm surprised your channel didn't blow up yet
The point of the guilt trip at 24:43 sounds pretty similar to how most religions work, they state that we by default are sinners and the only way to avoid that is to follow that religion
Amazing work, thanks for the full story of GamerGate.
Thank YOU for your journalism!
And I wait in anticipation for the other chapters.
very solid. I think you managed to capture the subconscious sentiment of many people I see online really well and you were able to substantiate them based on actual facts and arguments. I'm looking forward to part 2 or any other content you end up creating.
Thanks boss, appreciate it
god job! such a important subject, it has to be well understood!
Incredible work so far. I was there at the time and never really forgot about this whole bs (how could I, gaming kept getting worse and worse as a direct result of gg) so I can confirm this is a legit recap of what actually happened in a lot more details than what people usually get into. Subbed.
One thing that I learned through reading all of this back in the day, threats and harassment of people you disagree with rarely makes anything whole again. It only makes things more hostile.
Specially when you astrotruf and forge the threats and harassment from yourself to yourself.
I think Jacob Geller here on youtube made a video talking favorably about Depression Quest making me think he was one of the few who liked it..
Jacob is, and to quote him on his Resident Evil 4 VR for the Meta Quest 2 review: he's a "big essay leftist feelings essay guy", so he (who's content I enjoy watching) is certainly someone I'd butt heads with politically.
I won't say more but I wouldn't be surprised if he uttered some opinions that are anti-gamer, anti-consumer and pro-conformism.
Never put too much stock on people who work for Nebula, they certainly have luxury beliefs, ideologies and world views.
Reading all the positive press around it it's really difficult to guage people's intentions, I think some people definitely like it as a an effort to draw attention to the issue. Some people do genuinely feel the game makes them feel less alone, so perhaps it has some merit, but then again a lot of the steam reviews claim to be depressed people who feel insulted... So then maybe more harm than good... Then again another of layer of "are people just saying things to aide their side?" I think the weakest point though is when people praise the presentation, layout and "gameplay" I just, I cannot believe these people have eyes... Just my opinion though.
its a game games are based on perspective drakengard(the game that started the series you've come to know as nier automata) was basically shit compared to reviewers and most gamers...however thats only if youve never played dynasty warriors an equally shit game series with a worse story that came out first most people who like dynasty warriors dont hate that first game and people who liked that first drakengard game dont like dynasty warriors because it lacks that same story yoko taro games have. me personally unlike most nier fans i love the game that started the series
@@Saint_Wolf_ okay and the right wing anti progressive gamers getting paid by loor to push there religious and exclusive ideas that game protagonists are usually fighting to ya know get rid of or destroy within there societies are better? cause people say anti gamer in response to being told using trans and racial slurs makes non white gamers uncomfortable please stop calling them gamer words and normalizing weird sht. so like what exactly is anti gamer?
Subbed. Very informative, especially the bit about GG's aftermath and subsequent portrayal of the events completely twisted by the media, mainly through Wikipedia articles and the like. Now that GG 2 is unfolding, gamers are basically walking on eggshells because of their consolidated public image, while journalist are looking for any crumb of harassment to latch on, so they can reclaim their victim status and portray the other side as the same old evil they always wanted to eradicate. Thing is, given the previous iteration of this fiasco, they will probably cherrypick whatever reason they can find, and in the event they aren't able to, will probably make something up. What it's worrying is that, as long they control and influence the means of information that is being fed "officially" to the public, gamers will always be seen as the harassers. I'm afraid there's no "winning" with these guys, as they're ultimately the ones writing history.
That being said, I can't wait for the next part. Keep up the good work!
I was completely away from gaming for a few years and I completely missed this whole thing. Its nice to have some understanding of what happened.
I'm at 16:43 and I'll watch it all but I, as a gamer who was there from the start, am finding a lot of points of contention. First and foremost the fact that the vector know as Zoe Quinn's relationship of a sexual nature with many of the reviewers was openly known, the gamers are dead campaign, the fact that either Zoe or Brianna were caught with a sock puppet account that they used to send harassment to themselves and that the whole clique were subject to an FBI investigation and they found no real harassment.
Again, maybe all of this is acknowledged, and maybe you're aware and it'll be given air time later but… dunno, seems like you, trying to give preference to official sources are believing too much of what the game journos and feminist cliqué were saying who had an incentive to lie.
I mean, if you haven't, to the sides rollers podcast on RUclips, they have a 2 hour long breakdown of gamer gate by ShortFatOtaku, and the timeline from then to now and the network of how these people connect (through game jams, Canadian goverment funded orgs and Zoe Quinn's bed) is kinda nuts.
He does get more critical of the journos a little before the halfway point. Talking about how backhanded they are and how the language they use is meant to be spoken as if they are the authority in how gamers and/or men function.
We will get to some of that and some I will pass over because gamergate is difficult to get to the core, but also I try to the events I have the most evidence for.
Thanks for watching, hopefully things become a little more clear in the next video, there's certainly holes like the mass censorship etc.
@@livaveragegamer I'll keep an eye on the series, as one of those who was there I have an personal investment if not just a sunk cost in the events, I also wanted to leave another comment but didn't want to make it too wordy.
Really great vid., can't wait for the rest of it!
You do a good job of listing all compounding and influencing factors that went into "GamerGate" but the moment harrassment, violence, vitriol, suicide and the mob got involved all this became irrelevant in the public discussion and was just a stepping stone to state an opinion as fact. All nuanced discussion was rendered impossible overshadowed by the atrocities of the mob.
some really great points in the vid and well presented imo
i do think some will argue that you're not going hard enough against some of the peolple involved but i guess thats just how laden the topic is
31:45 is probably one of the best points you make, so much "journalism" is just pointless
also the best chapter is the wiki page, just a simple "this is the page, here are the sources - opinion pieces by people. here are the names - you see the pattern/the bias, i rest my case"
so many people that arent internet savvy just default to wikipedia and thats what they are presented with and thats why its so important to look at and deconstruct it
Thanks boss, I think, while I have some of my own personal opinions, I'm trying to be a little more level. I try to stick to things where I have the best evidence. My hope is that it makes it harder to frame me as "alt right" which is a very common trend at the moment.
Is there a list of the games used on the footage? There some i really want to try it out.
Punishing Grey Raven - anime action gacha
Stellar blade demo - action RPG
Sea of stars - pixel JROG
Bayonetta 1,2,3 - action
Nikke Goddess of Victory - arcade shooter gacha
Nightmare reaper - boomer roguelike FPS
Nier Automata - action RPG
Remnant 2 - lootershooter RPG
Tempest rising demo - RTS
Depression quest -
Azur lane - gacha bullet hell
Baldurs gate: Dark Alliance - ARPG
Atomic heart - FPS
Detention - 2D horror
Fatal Frame: Maiden of Blackwater - horror
Metroid prime remastered - FPS/RPG
Needy Streamer Overload - ...depression
Hell divers 2 - extraction shooter
Warhammer 40000 Inquisitor Martyr - ARPG
Dragons Crown Pro - side scroller RPG
Final Fantasy 7 Intergrade - ...it's FF7
Prodeus - boomer shooter
Soulstice - action
Arcana heart 3 Love Max - fighting
Last Epoch - ARPG
Forgive me Father - FPS
Death reQuest 2 - JRPG
Back when this happened I was too young to even know what this was about or understand it. Wild shit.
I played retro games the whole last gen aside from the first 2 years of siege id play off and on and then eventually i started playing ds3 every day then eventually mw19 came out and i played it for a year and i just bounced back and fourth between it and all the dark souls games
Just listened to your intro, and have to say ----- thanks. Like, completely agree. Gamergate was gross, the loudests voices stole the show, and we've had 10 years of stupidity in gaming and game journalism to pay for it.
No one won. Not the gamers, not the journalists, not game developers.
DEI has become the whipping boy for both sides. It's used by most journalists and some developers to shield themselves from criticism, and since it's also co-oped by woke ideology it gets beaten to death by anti-woke content creators. In my opinion, no one would have issues with DEI if the games were actually good. We have seen this in media, with stuff like Arcane and Hogwarts Legacy.
I'm all aboard that woke ideology has failed gamers, but I'm so tired of talking about it like it's the main reason. We've been talking about it for 10 years and it has never, ever changed anyone's mind. We need to let the fools fall on their own swords, but by actively participating we fall on it with them. Again, 10 years of this BS I feel should prove this point.
I'm just tired. Round 2 of "gamergate", seeing SBI taking all the heat for woke ideology when I actually agree they aren't the main reason a lot of those games are woke, it's like... isn't this just distraction? Getting rid of SBI doesn't solve the damn issue, they are just one piece of the problem.
I guess I should listen to the rest of the video, but all the coverage "Gamergate 2" has gotten I just feel like "shit, here we go again" when I'd really like for us not to shoot ourselves in the foot here. Ignore SBI, actually vote with your wallet, and stop jumping on "woke is the problem" because it isn't working. Somehow, the powers that be still turn a profit and this topic feels like it's payday for someone that's definitely part of the problem.
"The Woke groundhog has seen its shadow, I guess 10 more years of shitty games."
EDIT: Finished your video, just... awesome dude. Looking forward to part 2. It's so refreshing to hear someone who actually has their fact straight and isn't shilling for something.
I do have to push back on the "GamerGate harassed people" claim.
It is always repeated by the anti-GG side, and there are 0 receipts provided. In other word, an untrustworthy, biased, and partisan side that classifies even polite disagreement as harassment, is saying that someone on their ideological side is being harassed without providing any evidence. Yeah... I don't buy it.
no matter how much they try and convince us that they have all the power us gamers R the 1S with the real power all we have 2 do is quit buying there product until they start 2 listen 2 us and eventually they will go out of business if they don't
Gamergate. That brings me all the way back to early college.
I suppose all the recent messes has revived it. Woke localization that made people side with AI, sweet baby making games worse...
Gaming, Anime, Manga, Webtoons, Light Novels, Visual Novels, etc.
I wish they'd stop messing with my hobbies. Is it that much of a crime to like beautiful, fictional women?
The crime is to escape the indoctrination. Not a joke, Antonio Gramisci is the one who formulated the concept you'll hear many of these people utter that "everything is political" and thus, if your games don't have **THE MESSAGE** , and aren't actively trying to give you your dosage of regime approved story, then it's propaganda for their ideological opposition and that is not allowed.
You'll play as the sharp jab, flabby neck, broad forehead spaced out, flat chested, ripped arms woman with grievance against all men in her life and you will LIKE IT and be AROUSED by her.
One can only imagine the mountains of sewage you had to wade though to create something this comprehensive. Man I wish you didn't blow your load with the first 2 videos. I think the algorithm screwed you from there. You have a unique and straight forward was of unpacking the things you talk about.
Like actually exploring the actual effects and meaning of Quinns games rather than just dismissing it, of the nitty gritty relationship of reviews. IIrc Sterling of Jimquisition was first back the day for their negative reivews. And last year IGN was upset they didn't get a review copy as they were negative towards a studios previous game.
Idk it weird, looking back on it with all the dust settled its still hard to get a through .I mean the WIKI is pure seething and trying to understand the different storylines is mentally taxing. I wasn't part of GG but from what always stood out to me was blatant continuous dishonest. Anita coming into a male dominated scene was always going to elicit negative feedback to some extent. But what got me was the constant lying. And they always (even now) fall back to - "She just wants more women to play games guys, is that so bad"? When there's clearly a lot more going on even from a surface level view. The media will tell you what kinda toothpaste (X) person of interest has but for some reason barely knows more than the average person when it comes to issues their in favour of.
When you look at the articles and questions its pretty clearly trying to shove some kinda "theory" or agenda. While dancing around the elephant in the room, while insulting gamers. Loosely feeding people bones so they can say "we reported on it" while leaving the meat behind.
I think it was always bound to fail tbh. It was unclean, in the middle of a massive cultural shift, too many different voices, and those voices didn't really have much of any power. It also doesn't help when the high powers that be seem to want this shift. It did expose how corrupt the media could be to anyone paying attention.
While at time the media had a lot of favour. The only thing sites like Kotaku, Polgyon and others have done have ran their credibility into the ground. Even IGN recently coming out with its "Res 5 is to racist to be remade" take or their "Stellar blade director has never seen a women". They've ingratiated themselves into farming rage clicks, writing opinion pieces larping as news, and being against gamers (infamous Gamers are dead articles). Swaying opinion depending on the culture (Bayonetta's retcon) while not even playing games. While not every article they make is bad. If every month someone drops a "I can't enjoy the PS5 because of Trump" and you do it enough times, thats what your gonna be known for. And with them dying out to the lack of relevancy, that seems to be all they will be known for.
Could go on but your got more videos in the works. Love the effort you put into doing the research and giving your nuance perspective.
I kinda just ignored the whole thing at the time because I was too busy playing Halo 3 and reach to care but it's interesting to see how bad the corruption is.
I think for me it was mass effect 3 (after the patch) Killzone Shadowfall, Destiny, Dark souls 2, dragons crown.... I mean... I'm still going through my backlog from that era 😅 A lot of pretty good games came out in that period
I really have enough of two things in that topic.
1. Telling women that everthing is bad and every man want the worst and putting this in every place posible. Im reading an anime, Darling in the Franxx, review and see "Women on whole world irl are fighting to be seen like human not lesser race of human. Did author did not known that? This is puting bad thing in young peoples minds. Immoral".
2. Avoiding true problems and same things on "the other side". Women are hearing that OF and "se***rk" is best job for them and in Poland we have university (SWPS) that telling that streight + that is tottaly save to be a pro****ute. But the same time they are learning "how to avoid ra*pe" at this job.
And there is Tinder which is basicly a "pick a guy" for wemen.
Plus every sex****zation on male characters (like nude mod for Leon from new RE4) topic is avoided.
I just want DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball 3
True and real... True and real
Maybe cause I'm a woman but I never really cared about GG. I just watched with bile fascination at the complete clusterfuck, and how many of the same tactics and rhetoric survived through the alt right.
I think it's important to note that 99.9% of gamers never gave a fuck about any of this and just continued gaming
Ah my favorite boogieman, the "alr right" which was the strawman built to pin extremism on the political opposition of the clowney left.
Politics are weird
People from all walks of life are gamers... Including alt right and radical left. You bring up an something interesting that we will talk about later. Journalists tend toward political left and that affects what and how they critique. It's part of the over arching problem that caused gamergate
While I disagree with the ~high roading~ stuff, this is very informative. We "gamers" thought we pretty well won out despite all the propaganda, and we were going to be able to go back to enjoying our hobby in peace. Yet here we are again battening down the gates as people who decry us as monsters try to force their way into our community, and seize all positions of authority and destroy the community. At this point I believe mainstream gaming is a lost cause, but as we rebuild with AA and indie companies the image of gamers at large must be protected from this slander.
Most people don't even know of the decades of struggle gamers went through to shake the ~nerd~ stigma, and now that the propagandists are coming back with this old ~deplorables~ brand... Gaming has already become so detached as a community, that stimga might finally break the social side of gaming entirely.
because we made the wrong choice obviously, look i didnt care about gamergate either i was probably in the same lobbies as you at the time and in the halo 4 lobbies but like the entirety of the gamergate era was bros kinda just glorifying harassing someone because they didnt like her over the top but somewhat valid takes on gaming that 10 years later we are back at because the shit that was wrong back then is still wrong gaming is still sexist and racist and its boom in popularity has only made it apparent. theres no reason we should be saying gamin doesnt need to change when its common as fuck for people to hop online and make a 30 part series about the stupid shit people do and say in lobbies, the social side has always been broken there just werent enough people in the community to take it seriously, why tf do people associate gaming being cool with an increase of women and poc when any real nerd knows they've been there from the start
@@KalicoKal Not even close, the gaming community was international from the start, it was a ~boys club~ because mostly men like gaming, and thus games were made to sell to men... that is not sexism. Just like Barbie is not sexist because they market to their audience. Gamer's don't care which gender you are or what race you are unless YOU make that the subject. We are all pixels on the screen... Everyone is a dude online and all that really matters is how well you game.
Funny enough when push came to shove gamers are the only ones who had a pair. We will banter, make ~socially unapproved jokes~, discuss our unpopular opinions freely, and we say what we think... Yet when the chat ban hammer comes down on someone over ~sensitivity bs~ in those modern games the guy that was just calling them the worst things imaginable will usually be the first to jump to their defense from safe space bs.
Nothing needs to be fixed/changed, gamers are among the last free thinking humans left. People should never be required to only say or like things you or anyone else approves... they are humans, not scripted bots.
@@KalicoKal Also, I'm not one of those people who believes harassment is bad by default. Context matters. If someone is acting in malice or a effort to exploit their hate mobbing of your community without any legal repercussion... You take matters into your own hands. No one has to silently be a victim... because otherwise ~they are just as bad as their abuser~ that kind of flawed reasoning has enabled some of the worse events in human history.
A lesson from gaming 101... when someone is shit talking you, you return fire just as hard. They either respect the banter, or get pissy and shut up.
@@theprophetofhate7188 your right context matters a lot... so lets add some to your statements for this deep. gaming didnt start as a boys club a few deep dives and documentary series for a fun history lesson in gaming and advertising shows the boys club didn't exist till the 70s and 80s we also cant call it a boys club when the reasons why classics like tetras and pac man are icons today is because there goated and appeal to everyone now we pull this into the consol war where Nintendo the family friendly company marketing to both sides consistently makes bank while winning the last 2 generations out right for a reason you make more money not being exlusive and marketing to a large minority that will ruin you if they dont like your artistic view. we say gamers don't care about gender or race but that's only true for gamers in the western majority. lets touch on your international point. currently we have 3 billion gamers with a 55/45 split on gender. roughly half the gamers are in Asia 35% is taken up by north America and europe, 13% Latin America and the last 10% is Africa. and your right that's world wide but wait a minute that means the majority of gaming outside of the asian is taking place in the west where a 60 majority is some kind of white. now i dont know about you but im smart enough to not need a further mathematical breakdown on why majority of the anti woke/racist/sexist sentiment is taking place in parts of the world where it is completely impossible for the minority groups of nerds and gamers to be the majority. you cant tell someone to talk shit back when because of the fact the western gaming community is majority white most of the time racist remarks are between people they dont apply watering down the meaning to the point its normalized and viewed as censorship or violations of free speech and thought when things that the minority of gamers this shit actually does apply to finally get some positive change to reflect that its not part of the culture. you cry about humans not being bots but bruh who wants to be called slurs or sound like a hateful crybaby bitch? like if gaming is an escape from real like how the fuck are gamers who dont look like you supposed to feel when every time a character who looks like them is announced the rest of the community starts screaming about woke politics, for gods sake all the good racial and lgbtq representation is in the fucking eastern games your telling western devs to be like while screaming at them about woke politics, your not a gamer because you say edgy shit its because you play games like stop including your wierd politics and racist beliefs with gaming just because the majority of gamers you met agree with you...because they look like you but the ones who dont and speak up about the guy yelling racist shit in the party while your trying to play apex get ostricized by the community for not adhering to its not inclusive majority, calling someone a slur isnt the same as telling them to eat shit just because youve been doing it since you were 12 and nobody told you better till you were an adult and its already too late.
@@KalicoKal Appeal to irrelevant history, and that 55 45 split includes games like candy crush, so no, thank you, my(actually I like him a lot) maths teacher playing candy crush doesn't make him a gamer.
My problem with this video is that you spend the majority of the video talking about your own opinion instead of stating the facts in a non biased way. While depression quest is a fundamentally flawed game and zoe quinn did have affairs with some journalists that covered it, I don't think that represented a large conspiracy that companies were using gaming journalism to push a feminist agenda like you claim they were doing. I think many journalists saw how bad gaming was at representing women back then, and tried to spotlight the few vocal female voices, and zoe just took advantage of that. Then this vapid battle became the basis for one of the largest wastes of time on the internet, the modern culture wars. I liked the pgr gameplay tho.
Everyone has a bias, it is also, my video, so of course, my opinion. I'm pretty sure I clearly state when I am making an opinion and quoting/stating facts so it's not like I am taking away the viewers agency to make their own decisions.
Your comment DOES present a strawman though. I never said that companies and journalism were banding together to push a femisinist agenda. I merely pointed out that those were the optics at the time from the perspective of the average gamer.
Thanks for watching
@@livaveragegamer I understand you have a bias, so does everyone, but you could have at least acknowledged the other side of the debate. I don't think it's strawmanIng to think that if a video states something and doesn't state a counterpoint, the video argues for that thing.
The very basic notion of your comment is flawed. There is no problem with women not being represented in gaming, that's like saying there's a problem with men not being represented enough in ballet, or embroidery clubs or wherever... There are games that attract men more than women, there are also games that tend to attract women more than men. All this nonsense about one sex needing to be "more represented" in this or that is just that... Nonsense
@@Thedennati In my opinion, more representation makes more interesting games by the fact that it's trying something different. There is plenty of bad representation, especially by triple a studios that put in female protagonists to hide their creative bankruptcy, but we also have games like celeste, spiritfarer, control, sakuna of rice and ruin, slime rancher and mirrors edge that make use of representation and unique gameplay to tell more interesting stories than your average game. There are games that attract more men then women, and vice verca, but game developers and gamers should be more welcoming of different perspectives so that everyone will have a richer experience.
no mention of mass bans across every gaming community site, no mention of private mailing lists where journalists were threatened to support the bans, no mention of collussion across 50+ outlets to smear gamers "gamers are dead" campaign within a few hours of each other, no mention of government funding for these groups.
you don't know what gamergate is, it has nothing to do with any of what you talked about here.
This is part 1, I think you will find yourself to be incorrect. A little patience please. Thanks for watching.
LivAverageGamer plays Punishing gray raven letssgggooo!!!
I am conflicted with this video. One one hand it has a clear biased view (just as anything really) and stresses about how other things are biased while itself is biased. On the other hand it does accurately account for what actually happened in Gamergate.
Personally I would avoid generalizing certain fringe views as if they were accepted by the majority of "the western world", when you just actually mean USA and Canada (which would also be contested considering Red and Blue states), unless that's what you mean the Western World to be. While the European Union is full of fringe liberals, I'd say most of Europe is against 3rd wave feminism up (and to some extend liberal divorce laws from the 2nd wave), even if those in power seem to make it look the opposite. It's not that easy to be divorced unless both parties consent, and even then it's still not easy.
Hey, thanks for that, that's fair criticism. I don't think it's possible to have a completely neutral report of gamergate because so many of the events (no matter where you fall) require you to make a judgement call on one allegation or another. Where that is the case, I try to get to those conclusions with the lowest number of small logical steps.... but again, how you were raised and what you value is always going to poison the well so to speak so I do recommend supplementing what I say with other accounts. There is no shortage of accounts that say the exact opposite of me so it won't be difficult to find them. I think I do a fairly good job of distinguishing when I'm talking about facts and when I'm talking about my opinions so I hope the viewer is not completely passive in their consumption so to speak.
I could have done better with the world politics side of things. I think the topic requires a lot more breathing room than I gave it. You are absolutely right. Europeans do not think like Americans and they are, in fact, a big part of the west. BUT you would never know it by reading the game journalism that comes from that area. IGN france comes to mind. I was trying to point out that the echo chamber of games journalism is 'american liberal' and it does NOT accurately represent the majority which is why I used the feminism study to highlight that even in the US it's not representative, it's even less so anywhere else. I think though, that I might make an amendment in the next video to perhaps clarify 'not all journalists' and give some light to journalists that don't fall under that stereotype.
Anyways, thanks for bringing that up. I appreciate your input.
ahhh.... I thought you were watching part 2...that probably didn't make sense. Look, I appreciate the feedback, that's the main thing
@@livaveragegamer I watched part 2 as well so yeah I got all that xD
You did a great job with the video btw, sorry to lead the comment with some criticism.
Bruh like bruh seriously I just want fanservice bruh
What pixel RPG is it he is playing?
Sea of stars
I dont think depression quest is meant to be telling that depressed people dont have agency, i think its just a personal story about how depression can make you feel like you dont have agency. its meant to simulate the feeling, not to be some resource for help
That's a fair shout, that was simply how I felt when playing it so I'm open to people feeling otherwise.
20:00 hmmm... sauce ?
ruclips.net/video/mHDbZ2hHtlg/видео.html Here is Anita Sarkeesian arguing against choice feminism from the perspective of "late 2nd to third" wave feminism. Alternatively you can read the wikipedia page.
@@livaveragegamer Dude... thanks, but I was asking about the anime chick 😂😂😂
@@enpi-me AH HAHAHAHA soz bro, it's Richelieu from Azur Lane. Enjoy🤣
We are gamers... We have monke brain Liv 🤣🤣
Depression Quest = shit , not even a game. Zoe Quinn grift
I mean, why a whole review of depression quest? Why describe it as "guiding light" and say "its not right that it exists", i mean that alone makes you seem very biased and thats just 5 minutes into the video. It's an artistic work, it doesnt matter how trash it is, it is what it is and has the right to exist. That segment is full of pointless pedantry "well akshually its not 100% free because you can willingly give money". Like what the fuck.
No wonder video generates no dislikes, youre telling gamergaters what they want to hear and just dogpiling on the people who were targets of gamergate, just 10 years late. You started out the video suggesting both sides did wrong, but so far it's completely onesided and adding things that arent even necessary to actually cover what's relevant to gg. And i say this as someone who watched every video Thunderf00t made about Anita, and quite enjoyed it and here youre criticising same clips lol.
But yeah there is only one side's narrative that i hear, and youre far from charitable. And when youre talking about the bad things (harassment) you seem to only be trying to minimize what it is. While completely and unquestioningly validating meTooing of ZoeQuinn.
Nathan Grayson didnt have an affair before the reviews btw, so you are inaccurate there. What about the ethics of GG datamining Zoe's life over it (a shitty free game)? Did she scam people and didnt give refunds? That guy Grummz is scamming people with his kickstarter as we speak right now. But he is the GG king right now and "Gamers" literally dont care em8er is a scam.
On harassment youre technically right, technically. If i throw a pebble at you, that's no big deal right? But if 1000 people throw pebbles now youll feel like youre stoned to death. It's okay to say "i feel like im being stoned to death". I have no doubt that the actually experience Sarkeesian had was virtually indistinguishable from being harassed, and the people who threw "pebbles" probably were okay with that.
I mean sure you could say Sarkeesian was taking advantage of the situation and tried to make money out of it. Are you gonna comment on all the grifters that latched onto gamergate and antisjw/antiwoke grift to produce constant stream of outrage content over the smallest things? (one can argue youre trying to do the same now) You see that everywhere now, pure garbage regurgitated at nauseum devoid of any critical thinking.
The tactics youre describing are employed by both sides equally. 1 guy from SBI turns into "SBI TRIED TO CANCEL THIS GUY". One writers at kotaku turns into "Kotaku trying to dox and cancel Asmongold" or whatever the fuck. Worst interpretation of 1 persons words or actions turns into "those people i disagree and dont like do those bad things".
You probably will cover "gamers are dead" articles, well that's not what they really say do they? Most of them talk about some stereotype of a gamers, toxic gamers, not all people who play games. Leftists also play games you know.
This video only tries to validate views of one side of the story.
Spare me the "both sides" nonsense.
He starts with that, but his overall opinion is that the game journos are misinterpreting the sentiment of most the gamers and that there was a lot of smudging of the facts.
But it's true.. almost always is
Soz, I have to use language people understand. If you want my personal opinion, and we do get to this. The feeling of there being "sides" was a lot of the problem. We cover this in the next video.
@@livaveragegamerThe problem i have with the "both sides" argument is that on one hand you have at best a couple of handpicked fringe elements, usually on social media and at worst sockpuppet accounts the people compaining about "grievous harassment" use to harass themselves, we know that is the case because a couple of them (including Zoe Quinn herself and Brianna Wu) got caught doing just that.
On the other hand you have an entire network of "news media" in multiple countries and multiple languages basically colluding to publish the same verifiable lies at the same time. You have people like Anita Sarkeesian get the privilege to speak to the UN making ridiculous claims. You have a large part of the industry itself attacking their customers and, of course, you have events like the GDC, i'm sure you have seen the kind of "important" panels they discuss there none of wich have anything to do with game development.
These two groups are not equal, they weight differently, the former has no actual power the latter represents the system/industry itself with all the power, reach and money and influence to do whatever they please.
This is great stuff, very informative
Good stuff, there needs to be a proper analysis of Gamergate and everything that happened, in a non-biased way.
To me it seems to mostly be the common class against the media class, and though the media class was right that there was a strong 'anti-diversity' element within gamergate, that too stemmed from the finger wagging of the media class at the audience and the industry.
That interview you were reading out was a good example; what if blizzard then 'fixed' the characters? Would people really be happy with that?
But now, where previously the interviewee seemed dismissive of the interviewers attitude, it seems as though the game industry is happily marching to the beat of that drum - and people have noticed, thus the discussions we seem to be having about the game industry now, and the supposed 'gamergate 2.0'.
Oh we will be touching on that! but in short. gamergate proved that the industry didn't have professional distance. One of the offshoots of that is that it's far easier to transition between different positions in the game industry if you are "part of the family" so to speak.
Bruh, you could at least list out the games you showed 🥲