If you see the Natural Law episode, it's clear that Seven had romantic interest with the Ventu Woman. She didn't want to leave her in the end and also her expression when she touches the blanket gifted to her proved her sexuality. Rick Berman is a homophobe but the voyager writers and director found a way to depict it without Berman noticing it.
Totally shipped them back in the day, before I even knew what 'shipped' meant! Great video, I love these vids you are making. Bring back so many cool memories. I was such a Trekkie Nerd, and Captain Janeway was my fav by far!!
Woo! Seven/chakotay was so weird. I think she deserves better. She deserves Janeway. I only recently discovered I'm queer and Janeway was partly how I found out. I love her sm! That voice! That smile!!!
@@100percentshipper It's so interesting to me, if you compare Kate Mulgrew's voice, acting and looks to Patricia Neal in the original Day the Earth Stood Still movie, you would think they were somehow related. Have you ever noticed how closely the two resemble each other?
Janeway risked the safety of the entire crew of Voyager to rescue Seven. Multiple times. I think the writers were leaning a certain direction with the characters, even if they don’t openly acknowledge it.
I shipped these two so much back in the day and no matter what anyone says there chemistry was soooo gay!! It's been a pleasure discovering your channel. Awesome video's, I look forward to watching the rest. 😘
I swear this is an evergreen ship, I might forget and then rewatch and then... it's back. So so so gay. Also just Janeway is just *chef's kiss*. Glad you like my channel! I have to say a big thanks for your edits, esp. on Chloe, saved me from wading through Neighbours to catch up!
@@100percentshipper They really need to get a shifty on with Chloe & Nicolette but then I think if there's not even going to be a kiss because of the Rona do I want it!!!
Their relationship definitely had a romantic chemistry. It was actually a love triangle between Janeway, Seven and the Borg Queen. The Borg Queen kidnapped Seven as a child and groomed Seven to be in a submissive relationship with her. Seven was hand picked to work with the Voyager crew because she was the Queen’s “favorite” human Borg. When Janeway stole Seven away the from the Borg. The Queen became obsessed with not just getting Seven back but seducing Seven to come back willingly. Up to that point the Borg Queen was infamous for disavowing Borgs that were lost. The Queen and Janeway reminded me of two brothel madams fighting for control over the best young escort in town. I definitely think this love triangle angle deserves a follow up video
Great comment, the dynamic between the three was really interesting. I like that Picard kinda made the Borg Queen's feelings for Seven canon by saying that she loved Seven "didn’t you love her once too" (the Picard writers probably picked up on that dynamic too which is why I think they included that line).
I got to watch Voyager when the episodes were actually new on tv. I seen the subtext between Janeway and Seven right away. Janeway was intrigued by Seven from the moment she seen her on the Borg cube. By the end of Voyager it felt like it less subtext between them more just canon. I could never understand and still don't how anyone could read that as mother daughter relationship 🤔. I've pretty much been shipping J7 since Seven came on board Voyager in the 4th season. They were my very first ship and I still love them to this day. Their also the reason I started reading and writing fanfiction. I own Janeway and Seven alot over the years. I so happy a new generation is now watching Voyager and finding them. ❤️
I have to say this show has an amazing amount of longevity with new fans coming on all the time. And with time it appears that STV is getting more love than it did originally which is great. I for sure agree with you, the subtext was there from the get go and by the end the narrative just seemed to be... well, text. I mean if you want to read mother daughter, sure, but it just does not read that way for me.
@@100percentshipperI cannot wait to watch this entire series! I'm new to it but I shouldn't be, it was around when I was a teen and I was watching Xena back then, this show never caught my attention though, maybe I didn't have cable, oh well... but now...ho boy....Janeway has captivated me, her eyes have hypnotized me, her voice and smirking smile wreck me! I love her and I can totally see her chemistry with Seven, the way she looks at her is beautiful. It's Thanks to this video you made that I even found Janeway...(maybe Janeway found me 😉)...and I've been deep diving video clips for this whole past week until i finally couldn't take it anymore and decided i had to have the whole series on dvd. Waiting....waiting...waiting for arousal...erm i mean....arrival. 😮😊
The fact that they've been portrayed as a lesbian couple really shows they're acting skills. Honestly, I never would have known about irl issues, if the internet didn't exist. They just acted so well together.
As a queer human...it seemed inevitable we end up pairing them. And it's so nice to discover this video and find others who feel the same. While there are many ways to describe the how or why (the complexity, the vulnerability as your clip of Kate describes, what you mentioned about lack of physical space and extra personal attention etc)...really, sometimes, you just know. It makes sense. They make sense. Hell, even the Admiral agreed. Thanks for this video.
Wow, i hadn't heard that Mulgrew statement before, that's cool that she's acknowledging publicly how important 7 was to Janeway's character now, especially as ambivalent to downright hostile she was about the introduction of the character initially. It's amazing how dynamic their chemistry was despite the bts sometimes weirdness that was going on at the time... I'm definitely in the "it's obvious!" camp about the two and only hope Admiral Janeway shows up if 7 gets that spinoff. 🙏🏻
Thank you for making this video. I always wondered if there could be a case to be made for subtle hints at a romantic relationship between Janeway and 7, and I secretly hoped it could be true, but I thought the writers had to keep it subtle so as not to anger those who seemed homophobic above them, such as Berman.
I 100% shipped these two sooooo hard. Thank god for fan fic that let us all live the dream. Gina Dartt's Just Between Us series is cannon as far as I am concerned. ;) Great video.
Okay, I just gotta thank you, because following your rec for Just Between Us, I have been steadily reading and I'm at S2 and loving it so damned much. The talent and dedication of fan peeps is insane.
@@100percentshipper It's so good, right? I have them all saved in a google drive if you have issues finding them all. So happy you are enjoying them. Gina is an amazing author.
@@Netgyrl Thanks! I have found them on a dedicated website so I think I'm good, but if I run into issues, I'll be sure to hit you up. It's a super impressive series!
The first scene I actually saw of VOY before I got into it was the 'stardate today' scene, and even out of context, I knew they had a deep connection. Going back to it while watching for the first time this past year proved me right and I can only hope someday we get to see Admiral Janeway in Picard ((I haven't watched it yet but... pls... ))
I can't say I completely agree, but I 100% respect the deep analysis done here. It made connections I never considered, and I intend to rewatch the show with these points in mind and see how that changes the dynamic. I think it is a mark of good fiction when it can invite different interpretations. For example,, when I first showed my girl friend DS9, she made a case that all Cardsssians are Bi. Very good analysis and thank you for sharing this very fascinating point of view.
Agreed, I love that there is the possibility to interpret the relationship dynamics in different ways and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts when you've finished your rewatch!
Great video. Not sure what's with all the bitter "SHE'S NOT GAY!!!" comments when you clearly mentioned you ship J/C too and mention their romantic chemistry throughout lol, I guess some people just read the video title and comment based on that. Personally I feel like J/7 had some of the most "real" chemistry in all of Star Trek, regardless of gender or feelings behind the scenes. J/C also had equally appealing chemistry to me, and honestly, it takes a lot more for me to ship a straight pairing than a queer one, lol. But J/7 felt a lot more charged and anticipatory. Even if the show came out today and they could kiss all they wanted on TV without (many) people causing a fuss about it, I don't think they would have. That's not to say that there wasn't romantic and sexual tension, because there absolutely was, but I don't think they had that tipping point in the series itself, it would have to be something to come afterwards if ever. I wonder, is Seven's attraction to slightly crazy women (hi, Raffi, love ya) unresolved, residual attraction to Janeway? So interesting to think about. One of my fave ships of all time!
Sooooooooo gay this ship inspired my favorite author who ever since the show aired in the late nineties has been able to write one novel after another, and been under contract with one of the most famous publishing houses around the globe. For those who don't recognise her, I'm speaking of Gun Brooke, whose books are published in BSB. Her fanfiction can be read in AOO as readheadgrrrl. And my oh my what a bliss and a win for the LGBTQ+ world. And - Janeway and Seven do look very pretty. :o)
My friends and I made it a weekly thing to watch Voyager together back in the 90s. Most of us thought Janeway was aimed at a lesbian audience....then wheb Seven came into the show we all saw the potential. I never understood the Seven/Chakotay relationship. It seemed to come from nowhere.
Jeri has said on multiple occasions that it literally DID come from no where and both the actors were unhappy with the decision. There had been opportunities to attempt to build it up earlier in the season. They both asked the writers, hey is this going somewhere? The writers said (at the time) no. It was a bad decision that few people are happy with.
@@alyssaandres2605 I've just noticed your teoly....a year later. I'm sorry. But yes, it was an awful decision. There was no chemistry between the actors, no history or build up. I've read an.article recently which quotes Brannon Bragq, the writer who Jeri Ryan was dating at the time. He said Robert Beltran almost dared him to write his and Jeri's characters as dating. Something about how Braga was too jealous to write Seven into a romantic relationship so he took the suggestion and came up with the God awful pairing. I'm not sure which, if either, of the stories are true. I'm happy to just continue ignoring the fact that it happened at all 😂😂😘
I was a Seven and B'Elanna shipper I felt it had a real plausibility in the beginning but it was quickly assassinated by the show runners. Definitely Janeway and Seven had longer more consistent queer inferences.
Yeah, I felt that Janeway and B'Elanna had a few moments where my gaydar perked up and I was all for it but they squashed it pretty quick. I think that had the possibility to be a fascinating ship. A captain and chief engineer? Both such strong, stubborn women? It would have been epic. It also wouldn't have had the whole issue around Seven being so inexperienced causing a dynamic imbalance. In the end though, Janeway and Seven had the moments that made for a textual read and Janeway and B'Elanna, alas, didn't.
I am not gay and thus wholly lacking in the kind of personal insight that you evince in this video, but when I watched Voyager back in the 90s the lesbian subtext in Seven's and Janeway's relationship stuck out to me like pair of drag queens would in a room full of biological women. The only thing I can compare their interaction to would be like what you see in Ben Hur between the eponynous character and his childhood friend when they reunited as adults. I don't know if it was the intent of the writer or director, but it was clear to me that Charlton Heston and his co-star were doing all they could to give the audience the impression that they had been far more than just friends. Given Rick Berman's anti-gay policy in 90's Trek, and his heavy involvement in Voyager, I can only conclude that the sexual chemistry we witness between Seven and Janeway is entirely the work of the actresses themselves. I'd be surprised if no fan has ever asked Kate Mulgrew about this at a Q&A at a convention
From what I know neither actress intended it either but there was some serious behind the scenes rivalry tension between them and I think that ended up shining through. I seem to remember Kate has been asked but she dismissed the question in her eloquent way. At least I haven't seen anything where she's acknowledged it outright. I think the story just took a life of it's own. I have a feeling Jeri Ryan would be down with it, although I've not seen any interview where she's been asked.
Have to confess that this is a relatively new ship to me and I haven't rewatched Voyager since seeing how Seven is now in Picard but I totally see this relationship now and really need to rewatch! Got to say though, seeing it this way, I think there is a half-Klingon shaped hole in the video and one that fits what you've outlined perfectly! In the first three seasons there was a similar dynamic between Janeway and B'elanna as there was later between her and Seven. At times antagonistic and questioning her command but also very close and had a lot of chemistry. Once Seven arrived a lot of that shifted to her. Sure there were still moments between Janeway and B'el but that really got pushed to the sidelines. At the same time there was a hell of a lot of resentment thrown at Seven from her, that never really made a lot of sense canonically as she herself had been the recipient of bigotry against her Klingon heritage and had no reason to dislike the Borg more than anyone else. I would argue that either viewed through subtext or postulating how those characters would be written if the show was being made now, there would be a B'elanna/Janeway/Seven love triangle going on.
Agreed there was some definite tension with Janeway and B'Elanna and in many ways that is a much more suitable match (love the idea of why B'Elanna was off with Seven) but the J7 dynamic ended up eclipsing that at least for me. A thruple however? Totally there for it.
@@100percentshipper oh absolutely Seven and Janeway are a way bigger thing, I just see some parallels going on in the first few seasons. TBH The ship I would love to be true is B'el and Seven but sadly that one just is not present in the show!
Given that Janeway and Seven are part of how I finally figured out I was gay (and how I stumbled into the world of fanfiction), I am going to say yes, I read them as gay for each other. A lot.
Unconditional love is beyond sapphic but u may need to go thru sapphic to get there I don’t feel sapphic is always sexual it’s just higher plane of consciousness and they the only two existing there on that ship
I recently rewatched STV and def saw it where I hadn't seen the first time. I love the idea of the Captain and the Chief Engineer - like what a duo personally and professionally! I wish they'd given more screen time to these two ladies together. Also they make a more equitable pairing as they are both adult women whereas Seven had to do a looooot of catchup to be ready for a real relationship.
I thought so 2. Have loved queen Kate since here then orange confirmed it.jeri jeri gorgeous. Loved their dynamic. Oh n seven n had a great ship with a kiddo. I liked that 2. Jeri did a good job with that
Seven was new to her humanity so showing emotions like a normal individual was foreign to her. And very little gets under her skin. Still i can see the possibility of janeway & seven
I agree - and I think in her development she wasn't ready for a relationship with Janeway (or anyone else) to happen until probably the end of the show... so I like to headcanon that it would have been something for when they got back to Earth.
As much I'm happy to see Seven as canonically bisexual, I never shipped her with Janeway, and here's why. The power dynamic between Seven and Janeway, as much as they were friends, was very unequal. Even if Seven was stubborn and sometimes resented Janeway's authority, she mostly followed Janeway as captain and also mentor. I think it would have been unhealthy for Janeway and Seven to get together because they weren't on equal footing. Janeway had to teach Seven a lot about being human and being emotionally mature. Personally me if I were in that same position I wouldn't want to have a relationship with someone who depended on me for so much. Not that Seven would be a burden, but it just would feel like I have too much power, like it or not. I hope I make sense. I do see how people would interpret Seven and Janeway as potentially romantic because of the looks and lack of personal space, and if they weren't in the positions they were, I'd see it too. But as it stands, I see the relationship between them as friends and mentor/mentee. Very thought provoking video though! I did enjoy it. Edit: I am not meaning to infantilize Seven and say that she couldn't have romantic feelings. Just not with Janeway, someone who was very much in a teacher role.
I totally see where you're coming from, for various reasons there is an inherent power dynamic but I think it shifts over the seasons. I headcanon that they might not get together during the show, but by the time they reach earth, I feel like it could be a point at which the power dynamic would shift enough for me to be on board with a J/7 relationship . But, of course, each to their own! Glad you enjoyed the vid!
I don't like the idea of "they'd been a logical couple". I think they were more like Janeway's achievement, more like a mother or something. If it was Picard and Seven, for example, a father daughter would have been better Shipwise, ok ok, Kate and Seven... 🥰🖖🤝😊
Never thought of this and I am one of the rare ones that thought the Seven/Chakotay pair was forshadowed throughout the series from the first moment that Chakotay wanted to flush her out an air lock to his experience with the borg cooperative. His connection to nature and sprituality was a counter point to Seven's mechanistic nature and they we a perfect pairing to rub off both charactors rough edges and grow as a couple although too rushed and should have had a longer build up like Tom/Be'lana. I was really sad to see Seven was not still with him having a happy life, but I hope ST:Picard Seven is mirror universe Seven since the character from voyage would never kill someone in cold blood even if they had killed someone close to Seven and that was forshadowing that she is not our Seven (also it is cannon for mirror counterparts to be bi as with Major Kira, be it a bit dated sterotype). I hope in ST:Prodigy captian Chakotay will show up with Seven at this side and make big reveal that Mirror Universe Seven got stuck on this side and the two of them decided to got back to the delta quaderant because mirror Seven destroyed Seven's credit score or something. Not saying Seven being bi is wrong or even not a posible read of the character or anything, but the Seven/Janeway pairing seems more mentorship. Think of the age difference between the characters, it would be like a professor sleeping with a student which might happen but is always a bit icky because of the power imbalance. I could see the Seven/Chakotay relationship as an exploration of a more poly culture since some tribes had non monogamus family stuctures and that could really break new ground with in star trek if the two of them had an open marriage.
I think you are the first person I've come across who is for Seven/Chakotay, thanks for your perspective! I get that people see Janeway and Seven as montor/mentee and that is the intention but the author is dead and it'll always be gay for me! As for Seven being in a Mirror Universe, I'm all for it because seeing where she is now with so much trauma makes me a sad for her :( Where is the voyager family?
I'm not saying you're wrong but hear me out please please. You're wrong. At least ethicly. Janeway has always wanted children. It was seeded in the very first episode with Mark and her dogs. The dogs are a surrogate for kids she didn't have time for as a career woman. Then she had her crew. Surrogate children she loved cared for and grew, but not quite. Then she had her holodeck fantasies as a surrogate mother in the Emily bronte thing where she adopted two children. Finally seven. She adopted from the collective and brash and challenging she saw the daughter she never had. Janeway likes certain type of man. Well read, decisive, but flawed. She likes old world manners and a gentleman a counterpoint to her pioneer spirit.Sure these are traits that can be put on a woman I don't disagree, but she is a classical literary fantasist and well straight She loved Mark. She liked chakotay but that's a no go. She liked a hologram she perfected down to the inches of his beard and decided no, she was career. Seven no. Seven is her ideal adopted daughter. Not a love interest. I cant see Janeway and seven this way. It seems...incestual and I know they aren't related but she's sevens Foster mom
Janeway is a straight woman as written, but if I was writing her and I wanted a voyager episode to push the envelope . I wouldn't go for seven. She's her daughter. Janeway makes a connection with a woman on sildachis four who cares for the lives of all her people. They are isolated and she is cultured and wants to explore. Janeway offers her a chance to see voyager, but she explains she can't leave her system it's required of her station, they see a quality in each other the other has. The drive to explore, the desire to get home. They part with a tender kiss and nod to each other. One day we'll both see our destinations and look to that star... I'm bi sexual and I just look for a personality type and perhaps Janeway does too, but I wouldn't go for someone like seven. She is someone youd want to wish a better life and pass on your knowledge to. Janeway doesn't need to romance her. It's her mom. Harry Kim I can see as being queer or the doctor. Female characters however we see few of unfortunately and seven I can see as someone attracted to more feminine architypes, but in the future, there really is no architypes. People grow up in a society where gender roles cease to exist and femininity and masculinity kinda just blend so "queerness" is the norm. There's no pride movement because by the late 2300s people just get past that and fall in love. That said, Janeway and sevens bond is too much parent and daughter. It's wrong the same as chakotay and Janeway. It's a conflict of interest but honestly, Janeway if queer, would be better meeting a woman of her experience and challenge than a confused adolescent in a woman's body because that to me is just abuse. Something the Borg did to seven. Seven is an abuse victim acclimatising to humanity. It's wrong no matter what gender fancies her
Sample dialogue " Captain... I find it hard to ask this question. I have been on board now for a year and ensign Kim has avoided twenty four shifts initially, the following he has proceeded to give curt replies and his respiration becomes rapid. Is this a fearful response because I am borg?" " no seven no. Perhaps. *sips coffee* Id worried we'd have this conversation when two people... How much has the doctor told you" "he got as far as dancing" "ahhh mmm Well you understand courtship" "mating yes I believe I have the full understand" "no Severn. Not the.. Not the act. I mean love feelings"
There was no reason for it, and Kate Murglew was VERY hostile toward Jeri Ryan, even avoiding common shots. The later suggested lesbian angle.... possibly, an attempt to get under Murglew's skin. Murglew, herself Irish Catholic, on one of conventions said she agreed to bless a lesbian couple.
FYI I've had a couple of comments get swallowed up by youtube... in case you were wondering what happened to your comment!
#100PercentShipper
Links to your citations would be appreciated.
It is customary to post such citation links usually.
Nice video otherwise
I’m a straight married dude and these two characters quickly set off my “She bats for the other team alarm”
I know, right?
If you see the Natural Law episode, it's clear that Seven had romantic interest with the Ventu Woman. She didn't want to leave her in the end and also her expression when she touches the blanket gifted to her proved her sexuality. Rick Berman is a homophobe but the voyager writers and director found a way to depict it without Berman noticing it.
Totally shipped them back in the day, before I even knew what 'shipped' meant! Great video, I love these vids you are making. Bring back so many cool memories. I was such a Trekkie Nerd, and Captain Janeway was my fav by far!!
It's been quite the trip down memory lane for me too! I love Janeway so much, what an awesome character. So glad you enjoyed!
Woo! Seven/chakotay was so weird. I think she deserves better. She deserves Janeway. I only recently discovered I'm queer and Janeway was partly how I found out. I love her sm! That voice! That smile!!!
Janeway has been the queer awakening of many a sapphic gal. Agreed, her voice and smile is just...
@@100percentshipper It's so interesting to me, if you compare Kate Mulgrew's voice, acting and looks to Patricia Neal in the original Day the Earth Stood Still movie, you would think they were somehow related. Have you ever noticed how closely the two resemble each other?
Janeway risked the safety of the entire crew of Voyager to rescue Seven. Multiple times. I think the writers were leaning a certain direction with the characters, even if they don’t openly acknowledge it.
I shipped these two so much back in the day and no matter what anyone says there chemistry was soooo gay!! It's been a pleasure discovering your channel. Awesome video's, I look forward to watching the rest. 😘
I swear this is an evergreen ship, I might forget and then rewatch and then... it's back. So so so gay. Also just Janeway is just *chef's kiss*.
Glad you like my channel! I have to say a big thanks for your edits, esp. on Chloe, saved me from wading through Neighbours to catch up!
@@100percentshipper They really need to get a shifty on with Chloe & Nicolette but then I think if there's not even going to be a kiss because of the Rona do I want it!!!
Their relationship definitely had a romantic chemistry. It was actually a love triangle between Janeway, Seven and the Borg Queen. The Borg Queen kidnapped Seven as a child and groomed Seven to be in a submissive relationship with her. Seven was hand picked to work with the Voyager crew because she was the Queen’s “favorite” human Borg. When Janeway stole Seven away the from the Borg. The Queen became obsessed with not just getting Seven back but seducing Seven to come back willingly. Up to that point the Borg Queen was infamous for disavowing Borgs that were lost. The Queen and Janeway reminded me of two brothel madams fighting for control over the best young escort in town. I definitely think this love triangle angle deserves a follow up video
There was def a dynamic between the three which has def been picked up on by the Janeway/Seven fandom.
Great comment, the dynamic between the three was really interesting. I like that Picard kinda made the Borg Queen's feelings for Seven canon by saying that she loved Seven "didn’t you love her once too" (the Picard writers probably picked up on that dynamic too which is why I think they included that line).
I got to watch Voyager when the episodes were actually new on tv. I seen the subtext between Janeway and Seven right away. Janeway was intrigued by Seven from the moment she seen her on the Borg cube. By the end of Voyager it felt like it less subtext between them more just canon. I could never understand and still don't how anyone could read that as mother daughter relationship 🤔. I've pretty much been shipping J7 since Seven came on board Voyager in the 4th season. They were my very first ship and I still love them to this day. Their also the reason I started reading and writing fanfiction. I own Janeway and Seven alot over the years. I so happy a new generation is now watching Voyager and finding them. ❤️
I have to say this show has an amazing amount of longevity with new fans coming on all the time. And with time it appears that STV is getting more love than it did originally which is great. I for sure agree with you, the subtext was there from the get go and by the end the narrative just seemed to be... well, text. I mean if you want to read mother daughter, sure, but it just does not read that way for me.
It was the many times Janeway sent Seven to her room or scolded her. But I was a kid that grew up on Star Trek. And shipped Xena and Gabrielle
@@ChristmasDiamond You have impeccable taste :)
Me too.
Picard confirmed it 😊
@@100percentshipperI cannot wait to watch this entire series! I'm new to it but I shouldn't be, it was around when I was a teen and I was watching Xena back then, this show never caught my attention though, maybe I didn't have cable, oh well... but now...ho boy....Janeway has captivated me, her eyes have hypnotized me, her voice and smirking smile wreck me! I love her and I can totally see her chemistry with Seven, the way she looks at her is beautiful. It's Thanks to this video you made that I even found Janeway...(maybe Janeway found me 😉)...and I've been deep diving video clips for this whole past week until i finally couldn't take it anymore and decided i had to have the whole series on dvd. Waiting....waiting...waiting for arousal...erm i mean....arrival. 😮😊
The fact that they've been portrayed as a lesbian couple really shows they're acting skills. Honestly, I never would have known about irl issues, if the internet didn't exist. They just acted so well together.
As a queer human...it seemed inevitable we end up pairing them. And it's so nice to discover this video and find others who feel the same.
While there are many ways to describe the how or why (the complexity, the vulnerability as your clip of Kate describes, what you mentioned about lack of physical space and extra personal attention etc)...really, sometimes, you just know.
It makes sense. They make sense.
Hell, even the Admiral agreed.
Thanks for this video.
Wow, i hadn't heard that Mulgrew statement before, that's cool that she's acknowledging publicly how important 7 was to Janeway's character now, especially as ambivalent to downright hostile she was about the introduction of the character initially. It's amazing how dynamic their chemistry was despite the bts sometimes weirdness that was going on at the time...
I'm definitely in the "it's obvious!" camp about the two and only hope Admiral Janeway shows up if 7 gets that spinoff. 🙏🏻
Thank you for making this video. I always wondered if there could be a case to be made for subtle hints at a romantic relationship between Janeway and 7, and I secretly hoped it could be true, but I thought the writers had to keep it subtle so as not to anger those who seemed homophobic above them, such as Berman.
Have been shipping J/7 even before it became a thing 😁
This video is Omega perfection.
That is one hell of a compliment. Thank you!
I 100% shipped these two sooooo hard. Thank god for fan fic that let us all live the dream. Gina Dartt's Just Between Us series is cannon as far as I am concerned. ;) Great video.
Thanks! :)
Okay, I just gotta thank you, because following your rec for Just Between Us, I have been steadily reading and I'm at S2 and loving it so damned much. The talent and dedication of fan peeps is insane.
@@100percentshipper It's so good, right? I have them all saved in a google drive if you have issues finding them all. So happy you are enjoying them. Gina is an amazing author.
@@Netgyrl Thanks! I have found them on a dedicated website so I think I'm good, but if I run into issues, I'll be sure to hit you up. It's a super impressive series!
Does the drive still exists?
I totally ship it. I have for YEARS!!
Already had been thinking about that, when i was a 12 year old. 🤣 Good video!
The first scene I actually saw of VOY before I got into it was the 'stardate today' scene, and even out of context, I knew they had a deep connection. Going back to it while watching for the first time this past year proved me right and I can only hope someday we get to see Admiral Janeway in Picard ((I haven't watched it yet but... pls... ))
Oh man, wouldn't that be great? THE POTENTIAL.
@@100percentshipper Plus like, Jeri Ryan looking as fine as she does in Picard right now with like, Admiral Janeway's look? PHEW. Here for it!!!
@@zaryaswife Give it to me!
I HAVE BEEN SHIPPING THEM FOR YEARS I FEEL SEEN!!!!
I can't say I completely agree, but I 100% respect the deep analysis done here. It made connections I never considered, and I intend to rewatch the show with these points in mind and see how that changes the dynamic. I think it is a mark of good fiction when it can invite different interpretations. For example,, when I first showed my girl friend DS9, she made a case that all Cardsssians are Bi. Very good analysis and thank you for sharing this very fascinating point of view.
Agreed, I love that there is the possibility to interpret the relationship dynamics in different ways and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts when you've finished your rewatch!
"the powerful and seductive grace" is a spot on description and the sheer reason for my bi ace troubles. I'd melt into a puddle just being around her
...me too...
I'm aroace and yes... SAME 😂
I absolutely hate Chakotay. He is not in either of their leagues.
Absolutely!!! I got heavily involved in Voyager in 2011, and I LOVED the glances, the battles, the lack of personal space... was totally there!
Great video. Not sure what's with all the bitter "SHE'S NOT GAY!!!" comments when you clearly mentioned you ship J/C too and mention their romantic chemistry throughout lol, I guess some people just read the video title and comment based on that. Personally I feel like J/7 had some of the most "real" chemistry in all of Star Trek, regardless of gender or feelings behind the scenes. J/C also had equally appealing chemistry to me, and honestly, it takes a lot more for me to ship a straight pairing than a queer one, lol. But J/7 felt a lot more charged and anticipatory. Even if the show came out today and they could kiss all they wanted on TV without (many) people causing a fuss about it, I don't think they would have. That's not to say that there wasn't romantic and sexual tension, because there absolutely was, but I don't think they had that tipping point in the series itself, it would have to be something to come afterwards if ever. I wonder, is Seven's attraction to slightly crazy women (hi, Raffi, love ya) unresolved, residual attraction to Janeway? So interesting to think about. One of my fave ships of all time!
Totally yes!!!! Always Janeway and Seven for me 🧡
Sooooooooo gay this ship inspired my favorite author who ever since the show aired in the late nineties has been able to write one novel after another, and been under contract with one of the most famous publishing houses around the globe. For those who don't recognise her, I'm speaking of Gun Brooke, whose books are published in BSB. Her fanfiction can be read in AOO as readheadgrrrl. And my oh my what a bliss and a win for the LGBTQ+ world.
And - Janeway and Seven do look very pretty. :o)
That's so cool!
Do you think we'd be so obsessed with lesbian shipping if it was main text? Isn’t half the fun the secrets and the subtext of it?
My friends and I made it a weekly thing to watch Voyager together back in the 90s. Most of us thought Janeway was aimed at a lesbian audience....then wheb Seven came into the show we all saw the potential. I never understood the Seven/Chakotay relationship. It seemed to come from nowhere.
Jeri has said on multiple occasions that it literally DID come from no where and both the actors were unhappy with the decision. There had been opportunities to attempt to build it up earlier in the season. They both asked the writers, hey is this going somewhere? The writers said (at the time) no. It was a bad decision that few people are happy with.
@@alyssaandres2605 I've just noticed your teoly....a year later. I'm sorry.
But yes, it was an awful decision. There was no chemistry between the actors, no history or build up.
I've read an.article recently which quotes Brannon Bragq, the writer who Jeri Ryan was dating at the time. He said Robert Beltran almost dared him to write his and Jeri's characters as dating. Something about how Braga was too jealous to write Seven into a romantic relationship so he took the suggestion and came up with the God awful pairing.
I'm not sure which, if either, of the stories are true. I'm happy to just continue ignoring the fact that it happened at all 😂😂😘
I was a Seven and B'Elanna shipper I felt it had a real plausibility in the beginning but it was quickly assassinated by the show runners. Definitely Janeway and Seven had longer more consistent queer inferences.
Yeah, I felt that Janeway and B'Elanna had a few moments where my gaydar perked up and I was all for it but they squashed it pretty quick. I think that had the possibility to be a fascinating ship. A captain and chief engineer? Both such strong, stubborn women? It would have been epic. It also wouldn't have had the whole issue around Seven being so inexperienced causing a dynamic imbalance. In the end though, Janeway and Seven had the moments that made for a textual read and Janeway and B'Elanna, alas, didn't.
Ideally I think Seven would have ended up with The Doctor or Janeway.
I am not gay and thus wholly lacking in the kind of personal insight that you evince in this video, but when I watched Voyager back in the 90s the lesbian subtext in Seven's and Janeway's relationship stuck out to me like pair of drag queens would in a room full of biological women. The only thing I can compare their interaction to would be like what you see in Ben Hur between the eponynous character and his childhood friend when they reunited as adults. I don't know if it was the intent of the writer or director, but it was clear to me that Charlton Heston and his co-star were doing all they could to give the audience the impression that they had been far more than just friends. Given Rick Berman's anti-gay policy in 90's Trek, and his heavy involvement in Voyager, I can only conclude that the sexual chemistry we witness between Seven and Janeway is entirely the work of the actresses themselves. I'd be surprised if no fan has ever asked Kate Mulgrew about this at a Q&A at a convention
From what I know neither actress intended it either but there was some serious behind the scenes rivalry tension between them and I think that ended up shining through. I seem to remember Kate has been asked but she dismissed the question in her eloquent way. At least I haven't seen anything where she's acknowledged it outright. I think the story just took a life of it's own. I have a feeling Jeri Ryan would be down with it, although I've not seen any interview where she's been asked.
Totally ship those two. Captain Janeway is hot!
11:32 LMAO I _always_ crunch down like that in front of my bff
😂😂😂
Have to confess that this is a relatively new ship to me and I haven't rewatched Voyager since seeing how Seven is now in Picard but I totally see this relationship now and really need to rewatch!
Got to say though, seeing it this way, I think there is a half-Klingon shaped hole in the video and one that fits what you've outlined perfectly! In the first three seasons there was a similar dynamic between Janeway and B'elanna as there was later between her and Seven. At times antagonistic and questioning her command but also very close and had a lot of chemistry. Once Seven arrived a lot of that shifted to her. Sure there were still moments between Janeway and B'el but that really got pushed to the sidelines. At the same time there was a hell of a lot of resentment thrown at Seven from her, that never really made a lot of sense canonically as she herself had been the recipient of bigotry against her Klingon heritage and had no reason to dislike the Borg more than anyone else. I would argue that either viewed through subtext or postulating how those characters would be written if the show was being made now, there would be a B'elanna/Janeway/Seven love triangle going on.
Agreed there was some definite tension with Janeway and B'Elanna and in many ways that is a much more suitable match (love the idea of why B'Elanna was off with Seven) but the J7 dynamic ended up eclipsing that at least for me. A thruple however? Totally there for it.
@@100percentshipper oh absolutely Seven and Janeway are a way bigger thing, I just see some parallels going on in the first few seasons. TBH The ship I would love to be true is B'el and Seven but sadly that one just is not present in the show!
Given that Janeway and Seven are part of how I finally figured out I was gay (and how I stumbled into the world of fanfiction), I am going to say yes, I read them as gay for each other. A lot.
Live long and ✂️
😂
Seriously! Have you read any of the salacious Janeway/Seven fanfics out there??!! 👍😊💜
Hahaha, salacious! Isn't most fanfic salacious?
@@100percentshipper The ones I read anyway!! Lol!😂
JC had chemistry J7 was a mentor and student relationship
@@Dancestar1981 mentors and students do not have relationships like this. If they do, it is called a romantic relationship or affair.
They had gay klingons on the startrek discovery
Unconditional love is beyond sapphic but u may need to go thru sapphic to get there I don’t feel sapphic is always sexual it’s just higher plane of consciousness and they the only two existing there on that ship
While I do like Janeway and Seven. I had a bigger thing for B'Elanna and Seven.
That's who I shipped super hard.
I recently rewatched STV and def saw it where I hadn't seen the first time. I love the idea of the Captain and the Chief Engineer - like what a duo personally and professionally! I wish they'd given more screen time to these two ladies together. Also they make a more equitable pairing as they are both adult women whereas Seven had to do a looooot of catchup to be ready for a real relationship.
I thought so 2. Have loved queen Kate since here then orange confirmed it.jeri jeri gorgeous. Loved their dynamic. Oh n seven n had a great ship with a kiddo. I liked that 2. Jeri did a good job with that
Glad you agree! I love their dynamic and Jeri did an amazing job.
Lesbians in space!👍🥰
Gay
The doctor; fixes Seven of nines hair.
Showing the waves she can give!!!
Eric, just did the same, ounce.
It’s the classic mentor or I this case “ Femtor “ sexual relationship that goes back to Ancient Greece
Mentor is not a gendered word as far as I'm aware.
How about a throuple Janeway/Seven/Chakotay?
Damn straight
Ha! If you're expecting that from fucking Hollywood, you're clearly naive
Personally I wanted a Janeway/Chakotay/Seven arrangement
Seven was new to her humanity so showing emotions like a normal individual was foreign to her. And very little gets under her skin.
Still i can see the possibility of janeway & seven
I agree - and I think in her development she wasn't ready for a relationship with Janeway (or anyone else) to happen until probably the end of the show... so I like to headcanon that it would have been something for when they got back to Earth.
As much I'm happy to see Seven as canonically bisexual, I never shipped her with Janeway, and here's why. The power dynamic between Seven and Janeway, as much as they were friends, was very unequal. Even if Seven was stubborn and sometimes resented Janeway's authority, she mostly followed Janeway as captain and also mentor. I think it would have been unhealthy for Janeway and Seven to get together because they weren't on equal footing. Janeway had to teach Seven a lot about being human and being emotionally mature. Personally me if I were in that same position I wouldn't want to have a relationship with someone who depended on me for so much. Not that Seven would be a burden, but it just would feel like I have too much power, like it or not. I hope I make sense. I do see how people would interpret Seven and Janeway as potentially romantic because of the looks and lack of personal space, and if they weren't in the positions they were, I'd see it too. But as it stands, I see the relationship between them as friends and mentor/mentee. Very thought provoking video though! I did enjoy it.
Edit: I am not meaning to infantilize Seven and say that she couldn't have romantic feelings. Just not with Janeway, someone who was very much in a teacher role.
I totally see where you're coming from, for various reasons there is an inherent power dynamic but I think it shifts over the seasons. I headcanon that they might not get together during the show, but by the time they reach earth, I feel like it could be a point at which the power dynamic would shift enough for me to be on board with a J/7 relationship . But, of course, each to their own! Glad you enjoyed the vid!
I understand you.
I don't like the idea of "they'd been a logical couple".
I think they were more like Janeway's achievement, more like a mother or something.
If it was Picard and Seven, for example, a father daughter would have been better
Shipwise, ok ok, Kate and Seven... 🥰🖖🤝😊
Totally understand if it's not your cup of tea. I, however, can't help but see it!
Never thought of this and I am one of the rare ones that thought the Seven/Chakotay pair was forshadowed throughout the series from the first moment that Chakotay wanted to flush her out an air lock to his experience with the borg cooperative. His connection to nature and sprituality was a counter point to Seven's mechanistic nature and they we a perfect pairing to rub off both charactors rough edges and grow as a couple although too rushed and should have had a longer build up like Tom/Be'lana. I was really sad to see Seven was not still with him having a happy life, but I hope ST:Picard Seven is mirror universe Seven since the character from voyage would never kill someone in cold blood even if they had killed someone close to Seven and that was forshadowing that she is not our Seven (also it is cannon for mirror counterparts to be bi as with Major Kira, be it a bit dated sterotype). I hope in ST:Prodigy captian Chakotay will show up with Seven at this side and make big reveal that Mirror Universe Seven got stuck on this side and the two of them decided to got back to the delta quaderant because mirror Seven destroyed Seven's credit score or something. Not saying Seven being bi is wrong or even not a posible read of the character or anything, but the Seven/Janeway pairing seems more mentorship. Think of the age difference between the characters, it would be like a professor sleeping with a student which might happen but is always a bit icky because of the power imbalance. I could see the Seven/Chakotay relationship as an exploration of a more poly culture since some tribes had non monogamus family stuctures and that could really break new ground with in star trek if the two of them had an open marriage.
I think you are the first person I've come across who is for Seven/Chakotay, thanks for your perspective! I get that people see Janeway and Seven as montor/mentee and that is the intention but the author is dead and it'll always be gay for me! As for Seven being in a Mirror Universe, I'm all for it because seeing where she is now with so much trauma makes me a sad for her :( Where is the voyager family?
I'm not saying you're wrong but hear me out please please. You're wrong. At least ethicly. Janeway has always wanted children. It was seeded in the very first episode with Mark and her dogs. The dogs are a surrogate for kids she didn't have time for as a career woman. Then she had her crew. Surrogate children she loved cared for and grew, but not quite. Then she had her holodeck fantasies as a surrogate mother in the Emily bronte thing where she adopted two children. Finally seven. She adopted from the collective and brash and challenging she saw the daughter she never had. Janeway likes certain type of man. Well read, decisive, but flawed. She likes old world manners and a gentleman a counterpoint to her pioneer spirit.Sure these are traits that can be put on a woman I don't disagree, but she is a classical literary fantasist and well straight She loved Mark. She liked chakotay but that's a no go. She liked a hologram she perfected down to the inches of his beard and decided no, she was career. Seven no. Seven is her ideal adopted daughter. Not a love interest. I cant see Janeway and seven this way. It seems...incestual and I know they aren't related but she's sevens Foster mom
Janeway is a straight woman as written, but if I was writing her and I wanted a voyager episode to push the envelope . I wouldn't go for seven. She's her daughter. Janeway makes a connection with a woman on sildachis four who cares for the lives of all her people. They are isolated and she is cultured and wants to explore. Janeway offers her a chance to see voyager, but she explains she can't leave her system it's required of her station, they see a quality in each other the other has. The drive to explore, the desire to get home. They part with a tender kiss and nod to each other. One day we'll both see our destinations and look to that star... I'm bi sexual and I just look for a personality type and perhaps Janeway does too, but I wouldn't go for someone like seven. She is someone youd want to wish a better life and pass on your knowledge to. Janeway doesn't need to romance her. It's her mom. Harry Kim I can see as being queer or the doctor. Female characters however we see few of unfortunately and seven I can see as someone attracted to more feminine architypes, but in the future, there really is no architypes. People grow up in a society where gender roles cease to exist and femininity and masculinity kinda just blend so "queerness" is the norm. There's no pride movement because by the late 2300s people just get past that and fall in love. That said, Janeway and sevens bond is too much parent and daughter. It's wrong the same as chakotay and Janeway. It's a conflict of interest but honestly, Janeway if queer, would be better meeting a woman of her experience and challenge than a confused adolescent in a woman's body because that to me is just abuse. Something the Borg did to seven. Seven is an abuse victim acclimatising to humanity. It's wrong no matter what gender fancies her
Sample dialogue " Captain... I find it hard to ask this question. I have been on board now for a year and ensign Kim has avoided twenty four shifts initially, the following he has proceeded to give curt replies and his respiration becomes rapid. Is this a fearful response because I am borg?"
" no seven no. Perhaps. *sips coffee* Id worried we'd have this conversation when two people... How much has the doctor told you"
"he got as far as dancing"
"ahhh mmm Well you understand courtship"
"mating yes I believe I have the full understand"
"no Severn. Not the.. Not the act. I mean love feelings"
No they never made a logical partnership in that way it was mentor and student and mother and daughter dynamics nothing more and nothing less
There was no reason for it, and Kate Murglew was VERY hostile toward Jeri Ryan, even avoiding common shots. The later suggested lesbian angle.... possibly, an attempt to get under Murglew's skin. Murglew, herself Irish Catholic, on one of conventions said she agreed to bless a lesbian couple.
I respect it, but I just can't.
Fair enough, it's not for everyone!
They hated eachother
As Tuvock would say, "I find that highly irrational"
Fan fiction
Janeway was not 🌈