One of the biggest problems I have with open world stories is that there's often a disconnect between the urgency of the main quest and whatever I happen to actually be doing. I prefer Oblvion to Skyrim for this reason because in Oblivion, thematically its a bit easier to ignore the main quest at the start of the game, as Oblivion gates don't pop up until a certain section of the main quest is completed. In Skyrim I feel compelled to rush through the main quest even if I don't necessarily want to and end up missing out on aspects of the game I would enjoy from exploring. This was an interesting look at the subject, good job dude
Yeah, I think the relationship between story and gameplay in open world games is especially interesting. Like Jesse said, I’m sure there’ll be a game in the near future that connects the story and gameplay seamlessly, and I’m very much looking forward to that game. Also, I need to go back and play Oblivion. I’ve watched my brother play it a little bit, but that’s it. Thanks for checking out the video!
This! I gave up on horizon forbidden west probably 1/3 in partially due to that, I felt bad doing side quests when the world was so threatened. Tho, I mostly quit it cause I got overwelmed with all the new systems they added -- I preferred the simpler horizon: ZD. I'm playing witcher 3 and mostly ignoring the main quest till I'm done with a section, I like playing the guy fighting the monsters, helping the villagers, and just... ignoring the urgency of helping find the child.
Great vid. I agree with your last sentiment, "less is more". Some of my favorite games follow a more subtle approach to storytelling, putting it in the background and leaving it as "lore" for the players to unlock and piece together for themselves if they choose. Examples: Metroid, Hollow Knight, Dark Souls, Shadow of the Colossus
great work! I was excited to see what you’d do next after finding you through Raz’s stream. I loved the way you presented mono-color outlines and subtitles when sharing quotes from game directors, and you made solid points here! I loved the open exploration of Tsushima and also really liked the story, but I agree that the two elements constantly clashed with one another. I found myself having “story” play sessions some nights and “exploring” play sessions other times because they felt so disconnected that it felt most natural to focus on one or the other. Breath of the Wild reaches the highs it does because it leaves the story in the background, turning it more into discoverable lore than a traditional narrative. From Soft titles also do this quite well, using lore to elevate an interesting world without clashing with the interactive nature of their medium.
This is a awesome video! I felt the same about ghosts you really hit the nail on the head. I think an example of what you might be looking for is pathologic 2. If you can get past the infuriating difficulty. It is a stunning example of how an open world can enhance a story
Great video Evan. Of course I’m going to talk about the movie part though haha. The Two Towers might be one of the most dense well paced movies I’ve ever seen. At 3.5 hours you’d think the extended edition is a chore to work through (I sometimes find Return of the King a chore). But The Two Towers is consistent major plot moments. Always pushing forward, and then you have small moments to breathe (a good example is Aragorn having that moment with the you Rohirim soldier where he tests out his sword). I can’t imagine creating something that is 3.5 hours long and never once having a boring moment, while also maintaining a comfortable, enjoyable viewing experience. What a great movie.
Dude, exactly. I was going to talk about this more, but ultimately decided against it. It’s incredible, though. I feel like Seven Samurai is the only other long movie with comparable pacing. I thought about using that as an example instead, but I think it’s too on the nose lol.
@@evanonline8409 haha I had a blog that I was doing weekly recaps of what I watched and had one review in there. But I can’t remember my username and password so I haven’t uploaded the last 4 weeks + a couple reviews thats I’ve got written.
Awesome video! A huge improvement and a great take on the problems with open world storytelling. I remember playing Ghost of Tsushima and really really enjoying it, but never really connecting with the story (save for a few stellar moments) and I think you summed it up well. I feel like there's definitely a solution to this problem of telling a linear narrative in a non-linear space, and in the next 5 years we're going to see someone tackle it. But until then, we're just going to have to continue to suffer haha.
Thanks man! I’m definitely hoping to see a new approach soon. I feel like you’re right. I’m looking forward to this video being dated. Thanks for the retweet, too. I appreciate that a ton!
This is a great video! I've been considering writing something on the topic from a slightly different angle. (Wizawhat actually mentioned it in a comment regarding urgency). This is such a well crafted video and I can't wait to see the next.
Thanks! I really appreciate that. I'd love to see your take on the subject. Also, I really enjoyed your pinball video that Raz showed on the feedback stream!
Had to stop watching because of spoilers but the editing is great! Cant speak of the overall writting but if I have one constructive comment is that the music as the start was noticing the botw music a little too much at the beginning? I know you later talked about the game, but maybe having the music volume dropped down at the beginning might do the trick. It might just be me tho, so take it with a grain of salt. Really looking forward to more vids :)
I'd say the one of the best examples of open world storytelling is Outer Wilds, since the narrative only goes as far as your knowledge can take you. No hard locks, upgrades, or new items needed to progress. You have to explore new areas and take the few hints you can get from NPCs in order to learn more about the world, but you can choose who and where you go to first. With the right strings of info, you can progress without exploring every area. At that point, the incentive to explore everything is your own personal curiosity and desire to fill out your travel logs. The game has some of the best balance between the gameplay and narrative I've ever seen. Though this game isn't really replicable as a whole or other open world games, especially big AAA ones, it would help to see them pick and choose which aspects to take from depending on the story they want to tell. Outer Wilds works since everything facilitates intriguing exploration and traversal and a narrative you gave to piece together. Maybe a game can take the non-linearity to give players more freedom and options of witnessing and maybe changing the narrative. Use environmental storytelling as puzzles so people can piece the story themselves. Make use of soft locking progression instead of hard locking. Overall, I just highly recommend the game
Evan, this is such a great video. I 100% agree with your "less is more" take. I love a good linear story in a single player game, but I also love a game like Destiny 2 where the story takes a back seat with only a few cutscenes and a bunch of optional lore so it doesn't get in the way of the gameplay.
Thanks, man! I've played Destiny 2 for like 3 hours and I really need to hop back in because it's definitely my type of game. Also, I've been going back and listening to y'all's pre-pods and I really enjoy all the video game takes.
I agree with this. One of the most annoying parts of open-world games is when you're building up to a climatic moment and then...you're dropped into something else. Like a preparation quest, or some side-mission. It ruins the immersion. Subbed. Definitely interested to see where your channel goes :)
I just started playing God of War and I think it works because it’s open world in that you’re free to return to previously visited locations but the game is constantly shepherding you along so that the story continues. I agree that too much freedom can be overwhelming for a gamer. Great video by the way!
Lol but also I’m very glad to hear you’re playing God of War. I think it’s great because you can play through the main story and not feel like you’re missing anything if you choose not to do the side stuff.
Cyberpunk2077 may be one with strong story arcs that stand alone and are satisfying within the world. The world does a lot to enrich the storylines as well and set the stage for thosee stories. Other than supporting those stories, however, it does lack richness when standing alone by itself. I can admit to that.
This is the first time I’ve been exposed to this game and I’m blown away by the visuals. Why is it that video games are your favorite medium for consuming a story?
Oh man, it’s absolutely beautiful. I had a really good time capturing the footage for this. And I think it’s because it’s a medium that I’ve grown up with. Video games as a medium have matured as I’ve matured. Also, I think video games have the most potential for new storytelling techniques and structures.
I actually do think Red Dead 2 and Spider-Man PS4's stories are good but the downtime they have can really take away from the pacing. Red Dead 2 in particular has a great story but mannnnn does the gameplay run out of steam really really fast regarding the missions.
One of the biggest problems I have with open world stories is that there's often a disconnect between the urgency of the main quest and whatever I happen to actually be doing. I prefer Oblvion to Skyrim for this reason because in Oblivion, thematically its a bit easier to ignore the main quest at the start of the game, as Oblivion gates don't pop up until a certain section of the main quest is completed. In Skyrim I feel compelled to rush through the main quest even if I don't necessarily want to and end up missing out on aspects of the game I would enjoy from exploring. This was an interesting look at the subject, good job dude
Yeah, I think the relationship between story and gameplay in open world games is especially interesting. Like Jesse said, I’m sure there’ll be a game in the near future that connects the story and gameplay seamlessly, and I’m very much looking forward to that game. Also, I need to go back and play Oblivion. I’ve watched my brother play it a little bit, but that’s it.
Thanks for checking out the video!
This!
I gave up on horizon forbidden west probably 1/3 in partially due to that, I felt bad doing side quests when the world was so threatened. Tho, I mostly quit it cause I got overwelmed with all the new systems they added -- I preferred the simpler horizon: ZD.
I'm playing witcher 3 and mostly ignoring the main quest till I'm done with a section, I like playing the guy fighting the monsters, helping the villagers, and just... ignoring the urgency of helping find the child.
Great vid. I agree with your last sentiment, "less is more". Some of my favorite games follow a more subtle approach to storytelling, putting it in the background and leaving it as "lore" for the players to unlock and piece together for themselves if they choose. Examples: Metroid, Hollow Knight, Dark Souls, Shadow of the Colossus
great work! I was excited to see what you’d do next after finding you through Raz’s stream. I loved the way you presented mono-color outlines and subtitles when sharing quotes from game directors, and you made solid points here! I loved the open exploration of Tsushima and also really liked the story, but I agree that the two elements constantly clashed with one another. I found myself having “story” play sessions some nights and “exploring” play sessions other times because they felt so disconnected that it felt most natural to focus on one or the other. Breath of the Wild reaches the highs it does because it leaves the story in the background, turning it more into discoverable lore than a traditional narrative. From Soft titles also do this quite well, using lore to elevate an interesting world without clashing with the interactive nature of their medium.
Thanks! Yeah, Raz’s feedback was pretty helpful. I’m glad you connected with this one. Thanks so much for the kind words!
This is a awesome video! I felt the same about ghosts you really hit the nail on the head. I think an example of what you might be looking for is pathologic 2. If you can get past the infuriating difficulty. It is a stunning example of how an open world can enhance a story
I haven't played the Pathologic 2 so I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the suggestion!
this is a really good video essay! can’t believe you don’t have 100k subs yet
Great video Evan. Of course I’m going to talk about the movie part though haha.
The Two Towers might be one of the most dense well paced movies I’ve ever seen. At 3.5 hours you’d think the extended edition is a chore to work through (I sometimes find Return of the King a chore). But The Two Towers is consistent major plot moments. Always pushing forward, and then you have small moments to breathe (a good example is Aragorn having that moment with the you Rohirim soldier where he tests out his sword).
I can’t imagine creating something that is 3.5 hours long and never once having a boring moment, while also maintaining a comfortable, enjoyable viewing experience. What a great movie.
Dude, exactly. I was going to talk about this more, but ultimately decided against it. It’s incredible, though.
I feel like Seven Samurai is the only other long movie with comparable pacing. I thought about using that as an example instead, but I think it’s too on the nose lol.
Also, I’m looking forward to the day you put out some film thoughts. I’m sure you’ve got plenty to say haha.
@@evanonline8409 haha I had a blog that I was doing weekly recaps of what I watched and had one review in there. But I can’t remember my username and password so I haven’t uploaded the last 4 weeks + a couple reviews thats I’ve got written.
I’ll let you know when I get it back up and running.
Wow. This is a really good video. You deserve way more subscribers
This is really cool. Subscribed.
Awesome video! A huge improvement and a great take on the problems with open world storytelling. I remember playing Ghost of Tsushima and really really enjoying it, but never really connecting with the story (save for a few stellar moments) and I think you summed it up well. I feel like there's definitely a solution to this problem of telling a linear narrative in a non-linear space, and in the next 5 years we're going to see someone tackle it. But until then, we're just going to have to continue to suffer haha.
Thanks man! I’m definitely hoping to see a new approach soon. I feel like you’re right. I’m looking forward to this video being dated.
Thanks for the retweet, too. I appreciate that a ton!
This is a great video! I've been considering writing something on the topic from a slightly different angle. (Wizawhat actually mentioned it in a comment regarding urgency). This is such a well crafted video and I can't wait to see the next.
Thanks! I really appreciate that. I'd love to see your take on the subject. Also, I really enjoyed your pinball video that Raz showed on the feedback stream!
Had to stop watching because of spoilers but the editing is great! Cant speak of the overall writting but if I have one constructive comment is that the music as the start was noticing the botw music a little too much at the beginning? I know you later talked about the game, but maybe having the music volume dropped down at the beginning might do the trick. It might just be me tho, so take it with a grain of salt.
Really looking forward to more vids :)
Thanks for the comment! I think you're right. I should've probably adjusted the levels a bit more.
I'd say the one of the best examples of open world storytelling is Outer Wilds, since the narrative only goes as far as your knowledge can take you. No hard locks, upgrades, or new items needed to progress. You have to explore new areas and take the few hints you can get from NPCs in order to learn more about the world, but you can choose who and where you go to first. With the right strings of info, you can progress without exploring every area. At that point, the incentive to explore everything is your own personal curiosity and desire to fill out your travel logs. The game has some of the best balance between the gameplay and narrative I've ever seen.
Though this game isn't really replicable as a whole or other open world games, especially big AAA ones, it would help to see them pick and choose which aspects to take from depending on the story they want to tell. Outer Wilds works since everything facilitates intriguing exploration and traversal and a narrative you gave to piece together. Maybe a game can take the non-linearity to give players more freedom and options of witnessing and maybe changing the narrative. Use environmental storytelling as puzzles so people can piece the story themselves. Make use of soft locking progression instead of hard locking.
Overall, I just highly recommend the game
Evan, this is such a great video. I 100% agree with your "less is more" take. I love a good linear story in a single player game, but I also love a game like Destiny 2 where the story takes a back seat with only a few cutscenes and a bunch of optional lore so it doesn't get in the way of the gameplay.
Thanks, man! I've played Destiny 2 for like 3 hours and I really need to hop back in because it's definitely my type of game. Also, I've been going back and listening to y'all's pre-pods and I really enjoy all the video game takes.
I agree with this. One of the most annoying parts of open-world games is when you're building up to a climatic moment and then...you're dropped into something else. Like a preparation quest, or some side-mission. It ruins the immersion. Subbed. Definitely interested to see where your channel goes :)
Absolutely. Thanks for the sub!
I just started playing God of War and I think it works because it’s open world in that you’re free to return to previously visited locations but the game is constantly shepherding you along so that the story continues. I agree that too much freedom can be overwhelming for a gamer. Great video by the way!
Gamers should only be allowed so much freedom. I think you and I can agree on that, Austin.
Lol but also I’m very glad to hear you’re playing God of War. I think it’s great because you can play through the main story and not feel like you’re missing anything if you choose not to do the side stuff.
@@evanonline8409 yeah except for the fact that I apparently missed some armor in Alfheim that you can only get during the story so now I’m worried lol
Nice video
This is kinda shares a same idea as with Whiplash, so the results make the method worth it? And its cool to see two types of media explore this
Cyberpunk2077 may be one with strong story arcs that stand alone and are satisfying within the world. The world does a lot to enrich the storylines as well and set the stage for thosee stories. Other than supporting those stories, however, it does lack richness when standing alone by itself. I can admit to that.
This is the first time I’ve been exposed to this game and I’m blown away by the visuals.
Why is it that video games are your favorite medium for consuming a story?
Oh man, it’s absolutely beautiful. I had a really good time capturing the footage for this.
And I think it’s because it’s a medium that I’ve grown up with. Video games as a medium have matured as I’ve matured. Also, I think video games have the most potential for new storytelling techniques and structures.
epic
I actually do think Red Dead 2 and Spider-Man PS4's stories are good but the downtime they have can really take away from the pacing. Red Dead 2 in particular has a great story but mannnnn does the gameplay run out of steam really really fast regarding the missions.
Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's one reason I preferred the shorter campaign of Miles Morales to the first game.
@@evanonline8409
I can see that, I do prefer the story in the base game, but Miles Morales didn't drag on as long.
m o r r o w i n d
Story in this game sucks. Zero interesting characters