Neurofeedback is mostly involuntary - it's a form of operant conditioning, but on the EEG, which you cannot feel, so it becomes instrumental conditioning on involuntary behavior. Also, LORETA EEG is a real time source method, and at 70 electrodes has the same spatial resolution of MRI... But since we are training microcolumns/minicolumns in the EEG, you don't need super tight spatial precision (EEG is not just the firing of a column, but the mixing of information). You can also do pirHEG or fNIRS which are biofeedback on blood flow, which are insensitive to movement, but are more of a voluntary. EEG neurofeedback was discovered by Barry Sterman at UCLA in the mid 1960s - that was SMR, and it was discovered on cats by mistake, and then Sterman showed it in humans, and by Joy Kamiya at about the same time. And QEEG helps with standardization - you can see the conserved resources you are training. But it is closer to personal training than a discrete intervention like a medication. FWIW I routinely see 1-2 standard deviations of change on a CPT (IVA2) and the resting QEEG, in 40-50 sessions with ADHD... and yes, things often do continue to get better for a few months as well. Seems to actually work almost all the time. I have seen this in thousands of people, with ADHD. If i can talk you into mapping your brain (or anyone you want me to - perhaps with and without a stimulant, if you use those) - I bet I can convince you that QEEG brain mapping is worth using when thinking about ADHD. Just let me know - I'll send equipment to you. :) Getting reliable changes in CPT outcomes again and again does underscore that is is "real".. regardless of what you think of interpreting the EEG.
Thank you. Empirical evidence should be the overall guide. So far, it seems medication to be most effective. Any references to the effect size of the studies in neurofeedback (0.4 to 1.00)? Thank you again.
You have to be really careful what comparisons are being made. One of the meta-analyses that most strongly supported EEG neurofeedback for ADHD link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00787-018-1121-4 had an effect size of .64, but the studies that had a comparison group seemed to have effect sizes closer to .4.
I did 40 sessions (expensive) of nerofeedback for ADD and should have trusted my intuition that it’s a sham or at the most placebo effect. Even the clinic said it didn’t work much for me but still wanted me to buy an expensive maintenance package. The side effect for me was wasted time and a lot of money!
Would Neurofeedback be a good option for auditory processing disorder? Or are there other options and alternatives to look into? Far as I know, there are not any medications for this condition
It seems like a reasonable approach to try, but I would recommend getting a treatment plan ahead of time, and having a good idea of how many sessions the practitioner thinks you would require, and how much symptomatic relief would be likely to achieve.
I thought about Neurofeedback but wasnt sure because price is high. Is it ok to just do the brain mapping and then decide on better meds or combo of meds and supplements. I had a doc said i had a squirrel brain that didnt help me at all. 😂 I got other health issues like insomnia and prediabetic -- so i will focus on fitness, nutrition and sleep. Maybe heavy metal testing and a nutrition panel might help its cheaper. I haven't found success in meds though.
I haven't been impressed by the "brain mapping" particularly the PET scans and reports that people brought in to me, and I haven't seen people who gained useful knowledge from those studies. But I'm also aware that this may be a skewed sample - maybe those who obtained useful information stayed with those practitioners and did not seek out another opinion.
@@adila2442 the two supplements that my patients have found most benefit from are magnesium and omega-3 fatty acids/fish oil. ruclips.net/video/Gpwyq3cBqvA/видео.html ruclips.net/video/O1RjhxVFEvw/видео.html
Hello, question; do social media platforms like RUclips have restrictions on or even monitor for neurofeedback videos? In my opinion, they should not be allowed and should only be administered by an MD(not chiropractor for example)? Thanks 🙏
Neurofeedback is not mentioned as one of the restricted topics in any of the RUclips regulations I have seen. There a number of supplements and other pills and treatments that are very unlikely to provide help, and may even cause harm, that are widely encouraged on RUclips and other social media platforms.
@@DrJohnKruse thank you for your prompt reply. I wasn't referring to having fantastic videos like yours and others, I am referring to actual videos that are used in neurofeedback. Do videos exist to change your brain waves via a standard protocol for symptoms? Sorry for not being clear. 🙏
@@zhalo7416 It's a complex topic. Some of the videos that are used to train subjects in neurofeedback protocols are completely innocuous videos available to anyone. The training may involve trying to focus, or doing some task correlated with what is going on in the video, and doing that over and over again. So the video itself could be perfectly harmless. Other than a subgroup of epileptics who might be triggered by flashing lights, I'm not aware of specific video content that is likely to change brain waves in the absence of specific, lengthy training to get an individual to consciously or subconsciously change their behavior or their brain's electrical patterns.
It is not that hard to blind EEG neurofeedback. The commercial EEGer software does this, and you can look at my PhD dissertation to see evoked potentials (ERSP) that are specific to neurofeedback and absent in sham.
Neurofeedback is mostly involuntary - it's a form of operant conditioning, but on the EEG, which you cannot feel, so it becomes instrumental conditioning on involuntary behavior. Also, LORETA EEG is a real time source method, and at 70 electrodes has the same spatial resolution of MRI... But since we are training microcolumns/minicolumns in the EEG, you don't need super tight spatial precision (EEG is not just the firing of a column, but the mixing of information). You can also do pirHEG or fNIRS which are biofeedback on blood flow, which are insensitive to movement, but are more of a voluntary.
EEG neurofeedback was discovered by Barry Sterman at UCLA in the mid 1960s - that was SMR, and it was discovered on cats by mistake, and then Sterman showed it in humans, and by Joy Kamiya at about the same time.
And QEEG helps with standardization - you can see the conserved resources you are training. But it is closer to personal training than a discrete intervention like a medication.
FWIW I routinely see 1-2 standard deviations of change on a CPT (IVA2) and the resting QEEG, in 40-50 sessions with ADHD... and yes, things often do continue to get better for a few months as well. Seems to actually work almost all the time. I have seen this in thousands of people, with ADHD.
If i can talk you into mapping your brain (or anyone you want me to - perhaps with and without a stimulant, if you use those) - I bet I can convince you that QEEG brain mapping is worth using when thinking about ADHD. Just let me know - I'll send equipment to you. :)
Getting reliable changes in CPT outcomes again and again does underscore that is is "real".. regardless of what you think of interpreting the EEG.
Thank you. Empirical evidence should be the overall guide. So far, it seems medication to be most effective. Any references to the effect size of the studies in neurofeedback (0.4 to 1.00)? Thank you again.
You have to be really careful what comparisons are being made. One of the meta-analyses that most strongly supported EEG neurofeedback for ADHD link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00787-018-1121-4 had an effect size of .64, but the studies that had a comparison group seemed to have effect sizes closer to .4.
@@DrJohnKruse thank you Dr. Appreciate your response.
I did 40 sessions (expensive) of nerofeedback for ADD and should have trusted my intuition that it’s a sham or at the most placebo effect. Even the clinic said it didn’t work much for me but still wanted me to buy an expensive maintenance package. The side effect for me was wasted time and a lot of money!
I've heard many similar experiences. But that doesn't rule out that some day we may devise techniques that work for many people.
So you went to something for 40
Sessions that didn’t work ? Lol
Would Neurofeedback be a good option for auditory processing disorder? Or are there other options and alternatives to look into? Far as I know, there are not any medications for this condition
It seems like a reasonable approach to try, but I would recommend getting a treatment plan ahead of time, and having a good idea of how many sessions the practitioner thinks you would require, and how much symptomatic relief would be likely to achieve.
I thought about Neurofeedback but wasnt sure because price is high. Is it ok to just do the brain mapping and then decide on better meds or combo of meds and supplements.
I had a doc said i had a squirrel brain that didnt help me at all. 😂 I got other health issues like insomnia and prediabetic -- so i will focus on fitness, nutrition and sleep. Maybe heavy metal testing and a nutrition panel might help its cheaper. I haven't found success in meds though.
I haven't been impressed by the "brain mapping" particularly the PET scans and reports that people brought in to me, and I haven't seen people who gained useful knowledge from those studies. But I'm also aware that this may be a skewed sample - maybe those who obtained useful information stayed with those practitioners and did not seek out another opinion.
@@DrJohnKruse thank you so much. I appreciate this. I am interested in supplements but not sure where to start on those.
@@adila2442 the two supplements that my patients have found most benefit from are magnesium and omega-3 fatty acids/fish oil. ruclips.net/video/Gpwyq3cBqvA/видео.html ruclips.net/video/O1RjhxVFEvw/видео.html
@@DrJohnKruse sweet thanks I will check it out.
I have also been looking into neuro feedback because meds haven't been amazing for me. Maybe I'll try these supplements instead.
I know someone it did work for. They used EEgr
What is EEgr?
Hello, question; do social media platforms like RUclips have restrictions on or even monitor for neurofeedback videos? In my opinion, they should not be allowed and should only be administered by an MD(not chiropractor for example)? Thanks 🙏
Neurofeedback is not mentioned as one of the restricted topics in any of the RUclips regulations I have seen. There a number of supplements and other pills and treatments that are very unlikely to provide help, and may even cause harm, that are widely encouraged on RUclips and other social media platforms.
@@DrJohnKruse thank you for your prompt reply. I wasn't referring to having fantastic videos like yours and others, I am referring to actual videos that are used in neurofeedback. Do videos exist to change your brain waves via a standard protocol for symptoms? Sorry for not being clear. 🙏
@@zhalo7416 It's a complex topic. Some of the videos that are used to train subjects in neurofeedback protocols are completely innocuous videos available to anyone. The training may involve trying to focus, or doing some task correlated with what is going on in the video, and doing that over and over again. So the video itself could be perfectly harmless. Other than a subgroup of epileptics who might be triggered by flashing lights, I'm not aware of specific video content that is likely to change brain waves in the absence of specific, lengthy training to get an individual to consciously or subconsciously change their behavior or their brain's electrical patterns.
It's not possible without measuring the viewer's brainwaves. There'd be no actual responsive feedback happening.
It is not that hard to blind EEG neurofeedback. The commercial EEGer software does this, and you can look at my PhD dissertation to see evoked potentials (ERSP) that are specific to neurofeedback and absent in sham.