I suffered cramp on a 145km event ride, 70km in I noticed my seat pole had dropped an inch ... this was my first ride on it after a bike fit ... he didn't tighten the frame clamp properly cos on the side of the road with some force I could raise it without undoing the clamp ... anyway I raised it,, tightened it up and it made a huge difference but the damage had already been done. Being new to cycling, I didn't know what to do, I just pushed through the pain on the big climb that followed and for the remainder of the event and with an 11/23 rear cassette and some descent climbs that took some effort .... watching your vid makes me realise the seat pole may have been a contributing factor, also a possibility that I swapped for flat pedals, or perhaps bc I had the flu the week before, or possibly because ... Anyway, thanks heaps for all you post, it helps me as a beginner. I wondered how to train, now I am going to go 30 minutes before breakfast at least every other morning at 60 to 65 per cent of my ftp whatever that is (ill take it as 60 to 65 per cent of me fanging it) and once a week I may feel inclined to give that a nudge.
Perfect....! Maybe something about saddle tilt? They say to lower the saddle nose 4% lower than the horizontal to save the back but it can put strain on the knees in stead. A little ambiguous. Maybe you can explain it better! Cheers Maestro!
That’s too much tilt I would suggest but it depends on the saddle plus stack and reach obviously. Some saddles come with aggressive tilt designed when rails are parallel with cradle. These are mainly TT or short nose saddle. It’s also short term issue and mainly a high level performance tweak (meaning that you are racing etc) For everyday riding it may cause too much loading on the hoods but certainly worth experimenting with 👍
I remember the first time my right calf gave up on me. I was riding with a good friend (he was also my CEO at the time) and we pushing it like the fannies we were. Towards the end of the ride, I'd say after 2 hours, I went into a sprint and all of a sudden the right calf just locks up. I ended up getting dropped and I was panicking, because I've never had that happen before. Ever since then, and that was about 7 or 8 years ago, I've had 2-3 episodes where I wake up in the middle of the night with that same cramp. I haven't had a cramp in recent memory, but I do fear it.
Hey @Kinetic Cycle Coaching , I've never had major issues with cramps other than in cycling... since I started cycling I suffer for VMO muscle cramps on one or both legs (when they get too much worst, than a all leg cramp reaction suddenly appears, and then my leg is all contracted from up to bottom (literally all muscles front and back) -> what a damn pain and useless leg that just looks like hard as steel and can't do nothing than just wait 1-3m in agony till it passes... I can't even stretch because it's all over the leg)... it doesn't matter if it is cold or hot, if my fitness is good or not at some point... throughout the years I've changed many things such bike fit, feeding, hydration, etc... nothing really works. I just learned to live with them when cycling... when they strike (first some spams), I always continue, but trying to find strategies as easing off on power, which keeps me going but can't go hard, even if I feel Ok and with energy... it's weird, because, in one day I can have a very easy ride and boom, cramps appear, and the other day I may have a very hard ride and no signs of cramps... through the years, I couldn't find any pattern that could lead to finding what's triggering these damn cramps... Sincerely I don't think it's related with electrolytes, carbs intake, ... I do think that's dialed in. I believe it's related with some detail that's escaping me in the bike fit... something related with cleat position, rotation or q-factor (stance?!?)... for the position for some time I use cleats far back as possible, which I found more stable. But, for rotation and q-factor, to be honest, I've played around with it lots of time, since I really struggle to find the optimal position. I've tried all sorts of positions and all of them seems the same - in fact all seems more or less OK, which is odd. So, my theory :D is this -> seems that I'm overusing VMO muscle, leading to rapid fatigue of that muscle, and that fatigue could lead to cramp... so, my question is -> what is the major factor in the bike fit, than could potentially lead to VMO overuse? Saddle height? Cleat rotation and/or q-factor (I'm 182cm tall and slender guy)? Thanks and sorry for the huge text :)
Sorry to hear about your issues. Looks like you have tried a lot. The VMO is something I have had trouble with but not had the cramping. I snapped my medial ligament and caused weakness in VMO. If you have ever had a knee problem then the VMO can become weaker. It’s key for keeping patella in place. The quads all get stronger with cycling but imagine if they don’t have appropriate relationship and therefore pull that knee out of tracking line. However, your cramping could be over use of weaker muscle. I am sure you have already addressed the issue and do specific VMO exercises. You can test your VMO with the simple rolled up towel test placed behind your knee and then contract quad. Just search online. It could be that your Q factor is too wide and thus your rotate inwards. However, not much other than cleat placement to address this. Or strengthen VMO and increase pelvic stability. Obviously there could be a deeper biochemistry issue due to the severity and regulatory of it so maybe speaking with a medical expert and getting some blood tests taken? I appreciate this is hard as most will just say ‘stop riding your bike’ but seal out one that cycles!!! So I suggest dialling in to strengthening the VMO. Work on hip stability Work on foot stability - try some drills to check out balance issues. You have done most of the things I would check in terms of saddle height. I would also check your stack height and if possible bring up. Just to take some extension off the posterior chain. Anyway, keep me posted 👍
@@BulletproofCycling thanks for your feedback :) Regarding: - VMO test, never tried, but will do... maybe will reflect the need to get it stronger... - Q-factor -> that's a good point... in fact, I use it at widest possible setting (using cleats positioning only, not using extensions)... I feel more stable in this position... maybe this is related... and even if VMO is a bit weaker, than this could be adding to the problem... I'll try to play a bit with this, and get feet more close to each other... Cheers
thanks Coach, the cramps almost always occurs on the intensity combined with volume that's too out from usual intensity and volume, so if i have a plan for long rides i need to take time for my body to adapt gradually first. Im guy with long legs and a low stack race bikes say aero bikes with no spacers is a no for me, because it can makes me on the aggressive low position which i can't sustain for long even on the hood and gave me higher chance for getting cramp.. but u know, aero bike is awesome and i want it if i got the chance, anything i can do coach? my leg length is more on femur btw.
Thanks for reply - if i read it correctly you are not low through the stack but you have long femurs. This is good as you want the front end as high as possible (even on aero bike please keep the spacers in to start with) If you are sweating a lot then make sure you try things like pink salt (Himalayan salt) - just a tiny amount in water is enough. Make sure your saddle is defo allowing a good level of quad extension. I normally see most saddles too high but in your case it could be that you are too low so experiment with 5-10mm rises with 3-5mm forward on saddle. Obviously try the cleat further back and stick with long warm up before efforts. Keep me posted on how you go
Could be that you are engaging lumbar muscles more instead of glutes. By bringing them all the way back you shorten the length of hip to cleat so saddle height may need a small adjustment up. 👍👍
@@michaeloconnor9809 the plan is Feb Michael. The first book is going to be around 10 phases of training and how you use them to hit peak fitness (at any age) plus some fun 🤩
This can work on an indoor bike and for beginners. If it’s just comfort you want and you are maintaining steady speeds (high bars not so steady at fast speeds) then it should be fine.
Here's a warning for you all. A person i know awoke one night with cramp in his calf and decided on the old wives tail to "stamp it out"... Broke his leg in 3 places, took years to put right. My Doctor advised the only thing to do is "relax it out" easier said than done but works if you get Zen enough...
I suffered cramp on a 145km event ride, 70km in I noticed my seat pole had dropped an inch ... this was my first ride on it after a bike fit ... he didn't tighten the frame clamp properly cos on the side of the road with some force I could raise it without undoing the clamp ... anyway I raised it,, tightened it up and it made a huge difference but the damage had already been done. Being new to cycling, I didn't know what to do, I just pushed through the pain on the big climb that followed and for the remainder of the event and with an 11/23 rear cassette and some descent climbs that took some effort .... watching your vid makes me realise the seat pole may have been a contributing factor, also a possibility that I swapped for flat pedals, or perhaps bc I had the flu the week before, or possibly because ... Anyway, thanks heaps for all you post, it helps me as a beginner. I wondered how to train, now I am going to go 30 minutes before breakfast at least every other morning at 60 to 65 per cent of my ftp whatever that is (ill take it as 60 to 65 per cent of me fanging it) and once a week I may feel inclined to give that a nudge.
Thanks for the tip coach
THANK YOU!
Perfect....! Maybe something about saddle tilt?
They say to lower the saddle nose 4% lower than the horizontal to save the back but it can put strain on the knees in stead. A little ambiguous. Maybe you can explain it better! Cheers Maestro!
That’s too much tilt I would suggest but it depends on the saddle plus stack and reach obviously. Some saddles come with aggressive tilt designed when rails are parallel with cradle. These are mainly TT or short nose saddle. It’s also short term issue and mainly a high level performance tweak (meaning that you are racing etc) For everyday riding it may cause too much loading on the hoods but certainly worth experimenting with 👍
Great video…. Will try your recommendations - they might just address years of cramping (cleats too far forward I suspect!) 👍
Thanks
Keep me posted 👍
I remember the first time my right calf gave up on me. I was riding with a good friend (he was also my CEO at the time) and we pushing it like the fannies we were. Towards the end of the ride, I'd say after 2 hours, I went into a sprint and all of a sudden the right calf just locks up. I ended up getting dropped and I was panicking, because I've never had that happen before. Ever since then, and that was about 7 or 8 years ago, I've had 2-3 episodes where I wake up in the middle of the night with that same cramp. I haven't had a cramp in recent memory, but I do fear it.
Haha
But glad the cramp has stayed away 👍
Hey @Kinetic Cycle Coaching , I've never had major issues with cramps other than in cycling... since I started cycling I suffer for VMO muscle cramps on one or both legs (when they get too much worst, than a all leg cramp reaction suddenly appears, and then my leg is all contracted from up to bottom (literally all muscles front and back) -> what a damn pain and useless leg that just looks like hard as steel and can't do nothing than just wait 1-3m in agony till it passes... I can't even stretch because it's all over the leg)... it doesn't matter if it is cold or hot, if my fitness is good or not at some point... throughout the years I've changed many things such bike fit, feeding, hydration, etc... nothing really works. I just learned to live with them when cycling... when they strike (first some spams), I always continue, but trying to find strategies as easing off on power, which keeps me going but can't go hard, even if I feel Ok and with energy... it's weird, because, in one day I can have a very easy ride and boom, cramps appear, and the other day I may have a very hard ride and no signs of cramps... through the years, I couldn't find any pattern that could lead to finding what's triggering these damn cramps...
Sincerely I don't think it's related with electrolytes, carbs intake, ... I do think that's dialed in. I believe it's related with some detail that's escaping me in the bike fit... something related with cleat position, rotation or q-factor (stance?!?)... for the position for some time I use cleats far back as possible, which I found more stable. But, for rotation and q-factor, to be honest, I've played around with it lots of time, since I really struggle to find the optimal position. I've tried all sorts of positions and all of them seems the same - in fact all seems more or less OK, which is odd.
So, my theory :D is this -> seems that I'm overusing VMO muscle, leading to rapid fatigue of that muscle, and that fatigue could lead to cramp... so, my question is -> what is the major factor in the bike fit, than could potentially lead to VMO overuse? Saddle height? Cleat rotation and/or q-factor (I'm 182cm tall and slender guy)?
Thanks and sorry for the huge text :)
Sorry to hear about your issues. Looks like you have tried a lot.
The VMO is something I have had trouble with but not had the cramping. I snapped my medial ligament and caused weakness in VMO. If you have ever had a knee problem then the VMO can become weaker. It’s key for keeping patella in place. The quads all get stronger with cycling but imagine if they don’t have appropriate relationship and therefore pull that knee out of tracking line. However, your cramping could be over use of weaker muscle. I am sure you have already addressed the issue and do specific VMO exercises. You can test your VMO with the simple rolled up towel test placed behind your knee and then contract quad. Just search online.
It could be that your Q factor is too wide and thus your rotate inwards. However, not much other than cleat placement to address this. Or strengthen VMO and increase pelvic stability.
Obviously there could be a deeper biochemistry issue due to the severity and regulatory of it so maybe speaking with a medical expert and getting some blood tests taken? I appreciate this is hard as most will just say ‘stop riding your bike’ but seal out one that cycles!!!
So I suggest dialling in to strengthening the VMO.
Work on hip stability
Work on foot stability - try some drills to check out balance issues.
You have done most of the things I would check in terms of saddle height. I would also check your stack height and if possible bring up. Just to take some extension off the posterior chain.
Anyway, keep me posted 👍
@@BulletproofCycling thanks for your feedback :)
Regarding:
- VMO test, never tried, but will do... maybe will reflect the need to get it stronger...
- Q-factor -> that's a good point... in fact, I use it at widest possible setting (using cleats positioning only, not using extensions)... I feel more stable in this position... maybe this is related... and even if VMO is a bit weaker, than this could be adding to the problem... I'll try to play a bit with this, and get feet more close to each other...
Cheers
thanks Coach, the cramps almost always occurs on the intensity combined with volume that's too out from usual intensity and volume, so if i have a plan for long rides i need to take time for my body to adapt gradually first. Im guy with long legs and a low stack race bikes say aero bikes with no spacers is a no for me, because it can makes me on the aggressive low position which i can't sustain for long even on the hood and gave me higher chance for getting cramp.. but u know, aero bike is awesome and i want it if i got the chance, anything i can do coach? my leg length is more on femur btw.
Thanks for reply - if i read it correctly you are not low through the stack but you have long femurs. This is good as you want the front end as high as possible (even on aero bike please keep the spacers in to start with) If you are sweating a lot then make sure you try things like pink salt (Himalayan salt) - just a tiny amount in water is enough. Make sure your saddle is defo allowing a good level of quad extension. I normally see most saddles too high but in your case it could be that you are too low so experiment with 5-10mm rises with 3-5mm forward on saddle.
Obviously try the cleat further back and stick with long warm up before efforts.
Keep me posted on how you go
@@BulletproofCyclingalright! thanks for the reply coach 😊
Great
If I put my cleats fully back I appear to have better power engagement but I get a stiff and sore lower back from it. Cleats are fully forward.
Could be that you are engaging lumbar muscles more instead of glutes. By bringing them all the way back you shorten the length of hip to cleat so saddle height may need a small adjustment up. 👍👍
@@BulletproofCycling
When is your book for sale
@@michaeloconnor9809 the plan is Feb Michael. The first book is going to be around 10 phases of training and how you use them to hit peak fitness (at any age) plus some fun 🤩
do you recommend saddle height and handlebar height to be the same for more comfort?
This can work on an indoor bike and for beginners. If it’s just comfort you want and you are maintaining steady speeds (high bars not so steady at fast speeds) then it should be fine.
Here's a warning for you all.
A person i know awoke one night with cramp in his calf and decided on the old wives tail to "stamp it out"...
Broke his leg in 3 places, took years to put right.
My Doctor advised the only thing to do is "relax it out" easier said than done but works if you get Zen enough...