Winter is the greatest sc2 streamer, I started watching since I was a sophomore in high school and now I’m about to graduate college lol. Damn, time flies. Love you winter!
Regarding Uprade order: Way back when I was still regularly playing (5ish years ago) I cooked up one little fun PvT strat that was based around Armor. If you notice that T is mainly buildig Marines go ahead and research armor first. Attack with a Sentry, a mix of 4 zealots or adepts and one Immortal. Fire up guardian shield and observe how the marines attack barely tickle your units. This worked pretty well around plat/low diamond. This could probably be considered a bit cheesy because it has to hit pretty soon and can be easily be countered (Tanks). Still there are plenty smellier kinds of cheese out there.
I really enjoy all Winter's videos on RUclips. I liked the last advice. Play the race you think is the most OP. So, is terran OP? The units have more range, you can build faster MMMs. The BC is considered the best weapon in the game, and it can jump to any lication. Mass Vikings can counter like any air-weapons, Liberators are very hard to counter, Thors are devastating and IMHO ghost is the best weapon in the game. The EMP on archons is really devastating, the snipes on any zerg units including lurkers, broodlords and ultras, is very much OP. A lower terran can defeat a higher protoss anytime. We don't actually see the other way around. So, that is my opinion. Regarding to protoss, which should be the most hi-tech in the game, it's silly to see that terran buildings can fly and the toss buildings can't. Terrans can use supply depots as real doors, but toss lacks the technology. My first adept or my first immortal gets stuck between buildings many times, so I lose the momentum and possibly the game. Archons are so big that they can't go through the wall. This means that if you morph the archon in your base, it can't get out without a warp prism or if you morph it outside the base, it can't actually defend it if any air units attack your probes. Zealots are too God damn slow without charge. Early game for protss is so frustrating. I understand the battery nerf. It's logical, but 6 more seconds to build a Void Ray?!? 12 more seconds to build 2 Void Rays?!? I find it absurd. What do you think? Gold toss. Thank you.
Terran is shit for beginners, low hp requires more micro, so they r stuck on bulky thor bc shit, while beginners can a move a deathball, coloss/carrier are easy to control compared to tanks/liberators and of course, marines.
@@arankoka thank you very much for the reply. Mass marines with medivacs defeat mass carriers any time. I remember when I was a newbie and I thought it's very unfair that tier 1 terran can easily defeat capital toss weapon. Most of SC players still believe carriers are OP. They are not. But there is a huge problem with the protoss defense. I see many times toss players with 40 APM sitting behind 30-35 workers and lots of canons just building carriers. When they are maxed, they reach like 160 army supply. Of course carriers look OP then. I have real difficulties defeating such players.
Not sure whether to ask a legitimate SC2 question or to laugh at Shiba's pathetic attempts at attention grabbing. I think I'll opt with the latter. Great streams and vid though!
How do you spot all-ins from zergs? How come sometimes zergs show up at my door with 100+ supply of roach hydra while only on 3 base meanwhile I also have 3 base but I have no money to build high tech units
Question: I know that i am supposed to keep a zealot in my wall against zerg at all times, so no runbys can threaten my natural, main and production. But i suck. And having a hold position zealot in my wall kept my immortals built in my main away from my fighting force. When i remembered to make the zealot stand aside i tend to screw up putting him back in the wall, or forget to make it hold position and lings slip in anyway. Is there an efficient way of threating that door-zealot or should i just take it with me and warp in a new one? What i have been doing so far felt tedious and cringe. Question 2: I had a robo opener against zerg, into twilight, charge and templar. nice CIA package. Zerg kills my observer, slaps down a spire and shows up with mutas (mootas if you will). I have some archons that can defend my 3rd, but stalkers just melt from mutas. Is it worth it to morph some archons in my main and natural until i build up a large enough phenix count or should i just slap some cannons and stalkers and pray? PS: Shiba knows what's up!
A1: warp in outside your base and keep the zealot on H position. You can transfer probes via mineral walk. A2: blink stalkers are good anti-air units. I blink-in attack vs. Air and attack blink-out vs. Land. Carriers-Tempests have long range. Voids with speed are a must vs. Zerg because they can try to fight the mutas until phoenixes are built and especially because they are the best counter to corruptors. So air-toss should defeat muta-corruptor armies. But be aware of vipers and infestors. They are the exact counter to a carrier-based army. That's why we go back to archons, storm, voids etc. Glhf
as for #1, adding the zealot to your army hotkey and warping in a new one isn't the worst idea. you can then time it with your warp cycles so you never miss immos.
An idea, with will throw you into alot of situation the moust casual ppls found themself in when plyaing SC, so it might be fun wath how you handle it. What about "No minimap chalenge" ? Get some overlay so you cant see minimap and try where you can get with it
Winter, I am currently a Plat 2 Protoss and having somewhere between 90-120 APM. Should I try to slow down, or take whatever APM I have and learn more details of the matchups? (Warp Prism in the main, observers and pylons around the map, scouting tech + countering, etc.)
@@nicholasangelo3122 Exactly, but Winter also mentions about playing too fast as a problem. That's why low APM challenge exist, to show that you can win with minimal actions. I sometimes waste actions by doing unnecessary clicking, which means, evidently, I have "APM to spare". My question was, should I try to eliminate those APM and focus on the core build, or use those APM to do more meaningful stuff instead, as mentioned in the original comment.
My APM is around 100 and I am Gold 2. I still feel I'm not fast enough. When you lose to 150-200 APM Plat Terran or 250 APM Diamond Zerg you realise there are so many opponents better than you and so many things to learn. The problem is that I still lose to 50-60 APM Terran as well. Marine-tank pushes or BC rushes. Tried everything from stalker-colosi to CIA to storm to chargelots-carriers... This game is hard. :/
@wintergaming can you explain the maths of average time over 30% free supply on the sc2replaystats? it will have the Diamond 3 average at like 40, and then my metal league number is like some random 462?? then in another replay 133?? Is that seconds???
Question: is there a way to easely remove units from a control group? Currently I make a new control group on the "0" key for them but that is a bit awkward. For example to split some stalkers off to stay in position for drops.
If you shift click them out of the control group, you can just ctrl click the number the old group was in and form a new group with the old units minus the ones you shift clicked. Since you said you're using the 0 control group, I'm assuming you alt tab them out of other control groups? Then this will indeed work for you, but creating the muscle memory is always the most difficult part of it.
in my case it's not the ladder anxiety that keeps me from getting back into the game, but the fact that my hotkeys break whenever I try playing coop and then versus on top of that coop is still using slower game speed and the oldest lotv balance patch for some reason
Also each faction in coop has their own hotkey layout, that's probably why your custom hotkeys "break", you just never changed the commander specific hotkeys.
@@frostytheape7741 Oh believe me, I did change the 'commander specific hotkeys' and whenever I'd go into a ladder match with they same hotkey preset something would be broken And about the speed, if it's the same, how come units take longer to build in coop, probe is 17 seconds in coop (brutal) vs 12 on ladder and It's really annoying me knowing that the game could be like 30% shorter if only the speed was adjusted I've tried a lot of stuff, I even went as far as to edit the hotkey file manualy, but the names are just so inconsitent that it's really annoying to do And where did you find that info about speed being based on difficulty?
im currently 2400 mmr 120ish ladder games this season and struggle with ladder anxiety. i play alot vs elite ai and win maybe 70% of the games. is there any value/ room for improvement in playing macro games vs elite ai or am i wasting my time? i never rush or cheese them and usualy takes 20-30 min each game.
The problem is the AI doesn't harrass it really only pushes with one army, that alone separates it from not being very useful for ladder since even gold league terrans have learned the art of dropping marines in your main and flying a liberator into your natural lol or double mine drop. If you are purely trying to train macro or practicing a build order you could just do that in a empty game by yourself and benchmark your times
Everytime I call that number in the intro, I just get this weird person on the other line telling me to subscribe to WinterStarcraft and go follow his twitch account. Has a weird name to, something that rhymes with Timmy.
Hi Winter! I've got one general & one protoss question: 1)what happens to resources if building is destroyed while producing unit (or pilon destroyed while warping)? 2)how it's proper & easier to use adepts' shades while controlling adept itself? Ty)
1 you get your resource back, and if pylon gets destroyed you get your money abcka and you can just warp in somewhere else 2 you want to threaten one spot while shading another so hotkey your adelts shade one way and then press your hotkey and start threatening the sport pre shade then before the shade ends make a decision whether you want to cancel the shade or not depending which spot is better defended
this is ridiculous. looking at this fights of 3300mmr diamond lol. im 2000mmr silver at my server region and most opponents (specially protoss) drop ten times stronger armies. actually that ground armies they drop with zealots, archons, colossay and high templars with storms + stalkers is almost unbeatable like a buldoger xd they usually roll out at 10-12min and slap hard. most of these fights in video are chill compared to that. totaly weird stuf with that mmr.
10 - 12 min strong army is nothing, one can max out with zealots, archons, colossus and high templars with storms at 7-8 minute mark if playing against bad players....
I play in Europe. Maybe you too. Most of my opponents try to all-in in early game. I think that people are scared of the idea of protoss. So most of the terrans and zergs try to all in. Protosses as well. They go directly for Canon rushing. All this stuff makes me panic most of my games. But my game is improving. That's a fact. Is theirs as well? I doubt it.
@@mihairo83 hey , yep im also from europe. 2100mmr right now. happened couple of time to deal with rushes but its not that annoying for me. its like they dont learn at all if they rush. what i mentioned before is the strenght of full ground protoss squad. its like super hard to deal with that thing as zerg if the protos ball has a mix of high number of immortals colossay zealots archons stalkers and high templars with storms. this thing is the stuff im still learning to deal with they strike usually around 9-12min. also battlecruiser terrans r annoying and im learnign to deal with that. its tought tho ;d
@@GoreTheSummoner there was a problem with the ladder. I think I'm still gold toss because many of my games I play vs. Diamond and Platinum players. But this could be a good thing because you can actually improve faster and avoid bad habits. A player who maxes at 200 in 10 mins is definitely platinum or higher. So being silver could be overwhelming. If you need an advice, the units that make the difference are the spellcasters or with abilites to heal/protect/shield, no matter the race you're playing. For terran medivac, ghost, raven, for zerg queen, viper, infestor, for protoss templar, sentry, disruptor etc. Another big issue is the splash damage, because you can't win battles without it, also there is actually no army to sustain with the mentioned above if you don't have splash. What I mean for protoss is that storm is plus army, not an army on itself, you still need air-toss with upg or colosi, or stalkers in your main army. For zerg you definitely need banelings, lurkers, broodlords or swarm hosts in your main army. For terran you need siege tanks etc.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Winter is the greatest sc2 streamer, I started watching since I was a sophomore in high school and now I’m about to graduate college lol. Damn, time flies. Love you winter!
I am so glad you are doing this series again. They are so entertaining.
I love you winter
Ha! Gaaayyyyyyyyy (jk) ;)
Regarding Uprade order: Way back when I was still regularly playing (5ish years ago) I cooked up one little fun PvT strat that was based around Armor. If you notice that T is mainly buildig Marines go ahead and research armor first. Attack with a Sentry, a mix of 4 zealots or adepts and one Immortal. Fire up guardian shield and observe how the marines attack barely tickle your units. This worked pretty well around plat/low diamond. This could probably be considered a bit cheesy because it has to hit pretty soon and can be easily be countered (Tanks). Still there are plenty smellier kinds of cheese out there.
similarly, +1 charge zealot attack on 2 base with a proxy pylon (or 2)(no robo) can just tear through a zerg who's too into lings and queens and greed
After so many years, I still watch with the same excitement!!
Thanks for this APM series! It's extremely informative when it comes to providing guidelines to handle all sorts of situations!
Bro so glad I found your channel, keep it up your Sc2 videos are amazing
Excellent Content. Love the low apm series. Your casting is the best too. On par with tastosis.
I was waiting for content like that. Ladder Anxiety AND The Mighty Protosssss!! Yeye baby!
What an amazing thumbnail on this one that actually immediately grabbed my eye on my Subscriptions feed.
Hi shiba!
The fake "skip ad" button got me even after I just skipped one.
Well played sir.
Thank you for the videos. The series are wonderful. Also, I love the background music, I wonder what play list you were playing there?
I have to find a floppy disk to donate! Love your content and your humor keep up the joy and good work winter!
classic terran, once you've loaded up into a medivac, you have no home, it's a one way trip to death and/or glory
masterful understanding / gaming and commentary :D
Positive comment for giving the best content (for me low apm challenge and guides and... well ok all sc2 content)
I really enjoy all Winter's videos on RUclips. I liked the last advice. Play the race you think is the most OP.
So, is terran OP? The units have more range, you can build faster MMMs. The BC is considered the best weapon in the game, and it can jump to any lication. Mass Vikings can counter like any air-weapons, Liberators are very hard to counter, Thors are devastating and IMHO ghost is the best weapon in the game. The EMP on archons is really devastating, the snipes on any zerg units including lurkers, broodlords and ultras, is very much OP. A lower terran can defeat a higher protoss anytime. We don't actually see the other way around. So, that is my opinion.
Regarding to protoss, which should be the most hi-tech in the game, it's silly to see that terran buildings can fly and the toss buildings can't. Terrans can use supply depots as real doors, but toss lacks the technology. My first adept or my first immortal gets stuck between buildings many times, so I lose the momentum and possibly the game. Archons are so big that they can't go through the wall. This means that if you morph the archon in your base, it can't get out without a warp prism or if you morph it outside the base, it can't actually defend it if any air units attack your probes. Zealots are too God damn slow without charge. Early game for protss is so frustrating.
I understand the battery nerf. It's logical, but 6 more seconds to build a Void Ray?!? 12 more seconds to build 2 Void Rays?!? I find it absurd.
What do you think? Gold toss. Thank you.
Terran is shit for beginners, low hp requires more micro, so they r stuck on bulky thor bc shit, while beginners can a move a deathball, coloss/carrier are easy to control compared to tanks/liberators and of course, marines.
@@arankoka thank you very much for the reply. Mass marines with medivacs defeat mass carriers any time. I remember when I was a newbie and I thought it's very unfair that tier 1 terran can easily defeat capital toss weapon. Most of SC players still believe carriers are OP. They are not. But there is a huge problem with the protoss defense. I see many times toss players with 40 APM sitting behind 30-35 workers and lots of canons just building carriers. When they are maxed, they reach like 160 army supply. Of course carriers look OP then. I have real difficulties defeating such players.
Not sure whether to ask a legitimate SC2 question or to laugh at Shiba's pathetic attempts at attention grabbing. I think I'll opt with the latter. Great streams and vid though!
How do you spot all-ins from zergs? How come sometimes zergs show up at my door with 100+ supply of roach hydra while only on 3 base meanwhile I also have 3 base but I have no money to build high tech units
you should be able to have plenty observers/oracles to see that early enough easily. dont miss the gateway explosion/ carrier
8:30 ahhh the buildings not units build. I've used that and gotten wrecked, of course.
Question:
I know that i am supposed to keep a zealot in my wall against zerg at all times, so no runbys can threaten my natural, main and production. But i suck. And having a hold position zealot in my wall kept my immortals built in my main away from my fighting force. When i remembered to make the zealot stand aside i tend to screw up putting him back in the wall, or forget to make it hold position and lings slip in anyway. Is there an efficient way of threating that door-zealot or should i just take it with me and warp in a new one? What i have been doing so far felt tedious and cringe.
Question 2:
I had a robo opener against zerg, into twilight, charge and templar. nice CIA package. Zerg kills my observer, slaps down a spire and shows up with mutas (mootas if you will). I have some archons that can defend my 3rd, but stalkers just melt from mutas. Is it worth it to morph some archons in my main and natural until i build up a large enough phenix count or should i just slap some cannons and stalkers and pray?
PS: Shiba knows what's up!
A1: warp in outside your base and keep the zealot on H position. You can transfer probes via mineral walk.
A2: blink stalkers are good anti-air units. I blink-in attack vs. Air and attack blink-out vs. Land. Carriers-Tempests have long range. Voids with speed are a must vs. Zerg because they can try to fight the mutas until phoenixes are built and especially because they are the best counter to corruptors. So air-toss should defeat muta-corruptor armies. But be aware of vipers and infestors. They are the exact counter to a carrier-based army. That's why we go back to archons, storm, voids etc.
Glhf
as for #1, adding the zealot to your army hotkey and warping in a new one isn't the worst idea. you can then time it with your warp cycles so you never miss immos.
An idea, with will throw you into alot of situation the moust casual ppls found themself in when plyaing SC, so it might be fun wath how you handle it. What about "No minimap chalenge" ? Get some overlay so you cant see minimap and try where you can get with it
Winter, I am currently a Plat 2 Protoss and having somewhere between 90-120 APM. Should I try to slow down, or take whatever APM I have and learn more details of the matchups? (Warp Prism in the main, observers and pylons around the map, scouting tech + countering, etc.)
I feel like you are missing the point of this entire series. APM isnt what makes/breaks progress. It is tech/map awareness/timing/controls
@@nicholasangelo3122 Exactly, but Winter also mentions about playing too fast as a problem. That's why low APM challenge exist, to show that you can win with minimal actions. I sometimes waste actions by doing unnecessary clicking, which means, evidently, I have "APM to spare".
My question was, should I try to eliminate those APM and focus on the core build, or use those APM to do more meaningful stuff instead, as mentioned in the original comment.
My APM is around 100 and I am Gold 2. I still feel I'm not fast enough. When you lose to 150-200 APM Plat Terran or 250 APM Diamond Zerg you realise there are so many opponents better than you and so many things to learn.
The problem is that I still lose to 50-60 APM Terran as well. Marine-tank pushes or BC rushes. Tried everything from stalker-colosi to CIA to storm to chargelots-carriers...
This game is hard. :/
I've only watched 14 seconds so far, but can I just say... HELLO SHIBA!
@wintergaming can you explain the maths of average time over 30% free supply on the sc2replaystats? it will have the Diamond 3 average at like 40, and then my metal league number is like some random 462?? then in another replay 133?? Is that seconds???
How do you deal with corruptor - swarm hoast - infestor - viper as protoss?
Thank you.
What the nice county music on background?
Did you ever find out?
Winter in your intro. You have a money back guarantee. That true?
How many other people try to click "skip ad" out of habit before realizing its fake? Just me?
Question: is there a way to easely remove units from a control group? Currently I make a new control group on the "0" key for them but that is a bit awkward. For example to split some stalkers off to stay in position for drops.
If you shift click them out of the control group, you can just ctrl click the number the old group was in and form a new group with the old units minus the ones you shift clicked.
Since you said you're using the 0 control group, I'm assuming you alt tab them out of other control groups? Then this will indeed work for you, but creating the muscle memory is always the most difficult part of it.
Use the Alt key
in my case it's not the ladder anxiety that keeps me from getting back into the game, but the fact that my hotkeys break whenever I try playing coop and then versus on top of that coop is still using slower game speed and the oldest lotv balance patch for some reason
Coop game speed is based off difficulty, brutal coop is same game speed as versus in ladder
Also each faction in coop has their own hotkey layout, that's probably why your custom hotkeys "break", you just never changed the commander specific hotkeys.
@@frostytheape7741 Oh believe me, I did change the 'commander specific hotkeys' and whenever I'd go into a ladder match with they same hotkey preset something would be broken
And about the speed, if it's the same, how come units take longer to build in coop, probe is 17 seconds in coop (brutal) vs 12 on ladder and It's really annoying me knowing that the game could be like 30% shorter if only the speed was adjusted
I've tried a lot of stuff, I even went as far as to edit the hotkey file manualy, but the names are just so inconsitent that it's really annoying to do
And where did you find that info about speed being based on difficulty?
you are the best winter
Philosophical question: Is the win-rate in PvP 50-50?
im currently 2400 mmr 120ish ladder games this season and struggle with ladder anxiety.
i play alot vs elite ai and win maybe 70% of the games. is there any value/ room for improvement in playing macro games vs elite ai or am i wasting my time? i never rush or cheese them and usualy takes 20-30 min each game.
The problem is the AI doesn't harrass it really only pushes with one army, that alone separates it from not being very useful for ladder since even gold league terrans have learned the art of dropping marines in your main and flying a liberator into your natural lol or double mine drop. If you are purely trying to train macro or practicing a build order you could just do that in a empty game by yourself and benchmark your times
As genuinely helpful as I find these videos, I do sometimes wonder if Winter does these in part just to flex lol
Everytime I call that number in the intro, I just get this weird person on the other line telling me to subscribe to WinterStarcraft and go follow his twitch account. Has a weird name to, something that rhymes with Timmy.
basic micro ability use im not exactly sure. So it should work now at least till the end of the season
its not like you CANT build drone, you can build 50/50. Just not as many drones as the OP race is used to
Nice.
I have inserted my bills in the floppy disk. What now? 👀
Mmmmm Build Order Stew
3800 peoples attention has waned prior to liking - ooooft
why 10 subs when 25 over?! why winter!?
:)) I think it should've been 5 :))
Hi Winter! I've got one general & one protoss question:
1)what happens to resources if building is destroyed while producing unit (or pilon destroyed while warping)?
2)how it's proper & easier to use adepts' shades while controlling adept itself?
Ty)
1 you get your resource back, and if pylon gets destroyed you get your money abcka and you can just warp in somewhere else
2 you want to threaten one spot while shading another so hotkey your adelts shade one way and then press your hotkey and start threatening the sport pre shade then before the shade ends make a decision whether you want to cancel the shade or not depending which spot is better defended
Hi, Shiba
HI SHIBA!
Hi Shiba. Why dont you say Hi back :(
this is ridiculous. looking at this fights of 3300mmr diamond lol. im 2000mmr silver at my server region and most opponents (specially protoss) drop ten times stronger armies. actually that ground armies they drop with zealots, archons, colossay and high templars with storms + stalkers is almost unbeatable like a buldoger xd they usually roll out at 10-12min and slap hard. most of these fights in video are chill compared to that. totaly weird stuf with that mmr.
10 - 12 min strong army is nothing, one can max out with zealots, archons, colossus and high templars with storms at 7-8 minute mark if playing against bad players....
@@clark78118 im talkin about silver 3 low mmr league dude...
I play in Europe. Maybe you too. Most of my opponents try to all-in in early game. I think that people are scared of the idea of protoss. So most of the terrans and zergs try to all in. Protosses as well. They go directly for Canon rushing. All this stuff makes me panic most of my games. But my game is improving. That's a fact. Is theirs as well? I doubt it.
@@mihairo83 hey , yep im also from europe. 2100mmr right now. happened couple of time to deal with rushes but its not that annoying for me. its like they dont learn at all if they rush. what i mentioned before is the strenght of full ground protoss squad. its like super hard to deal with that thing as zerg if the protos ball has a mix of high number of immortals colossay zealots archons stalkers and high templars with storms. this thing is the stuff im still learning to deal with they strike usually around 9-12min. also battlecruiser terrans r annoying and im learnign to deal with that. its tought tho ;d
@@GoreTheSummoner there was a problem with the ladder. I think I'm still gold toss because many of my games I play vs. Diamond and Platinum players. But this could be a good thing because you can actually improve faster and avoid bad habits. A player who maxes at 200 in 10 mins is definitely platinum or higher. So being silver could be overwhelming. If you need an advice, the units that make the difference are the spellcasters or with abilites to heal/protect/shield, no matter the race you're playing. For terran medivac, ghost, raven, for zerg queen, viper, infestor, for protoss templar, sentry, disruptor etc.
Another big issue is the splash damage, because you can't win battles without it, also there is actually no army to sustain with the mentioned above if you don't have splash. What I mean for protoss is that storm is plus army, not an army on itself, you still need air-toss with upg or colosi, or stalkers in your main army. For zerg you definitely need banelings, lurkers, broodlords or swarm hosts in your main army. For terran you need siege tanks etc.
Hi Shiba
PlagueUUUUUUU
One day soon I will play against a real person again.
I made it to Plat 1 with 27 apm 😂
HI SHIBA
no i cannot
honestly there is no REAL "challenge" in playing toss with low apm
🤣
Commenting....
Love your intro Winter :)
Hi Shiba