I would have put Blue in hard. He aims to be the best to earn Oaks praise, but never gets it. In FRLG if he beats you in the lab, Oak says it's "disappointing" and when you beat him as a champion, Oak still says he's disappointed in Blue. He just can't win. We don't see it, but I think Lance stepped in and became a mentor for Blue which is why we see him as a gym leader in Gen two and it's remakes
after defeating terapagos you have the option to not catch it. Choosing the option will have kieran telling you that you have to be the one catching terapagos. This just shows how much the developers hate kieran. Bro can't even get his turtle even though the main character offers him the turtle
I think there is a creepypasta about wally dying because he wanted to be strong enough to beat the player but getting a bad case of asthma and died from exhaustion. And sadly enough, he gets one last fight with the player, but sadly in the cartoon's heroes always win, he loses and was given the line, "Why can't you let me win?".
Kieran has it the worst out of all rivals. In the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero, you’re not the good hero, you are partially at blame for Kieran’s insanity, you as the player break his trust! It wasn’t knowing about Ogerpon’s true story that made him snap, it was the player *lying* to his face, with potential corruption from Pecharunt. You treat him like dirt when was your friend, to the point where he only cares about getting stronger to defeat you, who unknowing to the characters, gets to try again until you beat him in that championship match!
Gladion suffered the most -family issues. -his Mom is sick(is doing well in USUM if I remember correctly) -his father remained having an amnesia not remembering Gladion and his own family.
Pretty safe assumption that the Aether kids were emotionally abused after Mohn vanished. Being rich isn't ever going to undo those scars, along with your father being completely gone from your life, your mother being comatose (or poorly written in USUM's case...), and the gnawing regret you had to leave the one person you still cared about behind with the monster you feared most. We still under the assumption that he's just fine?
I think a teir list focused on the Professors and what they specialize in studying would be cool. Probably seeing how smart or impactful their field is compared to others.
Nemona should be higher. She barely has any non-financial support, especially before we arrive, being seen only ever speaking to us and the other rivals, as well as adults. She also had to work hard to get where she is today, but because she’s rich no one sees what she’s accomplished, degrading her by saying it was natural-born talent, or calling her (I think) a princess, allowed to have whatever she wants whenever she wants. She expresses how much this upsets her in the post-game, and I can’t help but agree that she’s completely valid to be upset. How would you feel if you worked incredibly hard to obtain or be able to do something, and someone walks over and tells you that thing isn’t something you should be proud of because you you’re rich. On top of that, in-game, as I mentioned earlier, she’s only really seen talking to adults, us, Arven, and Penny, even though she should be much more popular. She’s shunned by her peers for her accomplishments even though she should be praised. She’s class president, the youngest champion (maybe excluding us), an amazing trainer, and a hardworking and outgoing person, yet no one seems to like her, not even our character and the other rivals. She’s seen as annoying and tiring by everyone, and just played off like a joke.
Ngl for Nemona she is just some talkative person with neglected parents that’s why she likes to talk to us the protagonist cause she has no one to talk to, cause people hate how she loves battling so much that they just ignore her. I think why her parents neglect her is cause of some business, as they are always working for the money while never talking to Nemona I would say she would be at the hard chart.
Actually from the dialogue on the way down to area zero, Nemona did say her parents are normal, albeit she calls them "Mother." and "Father." which you can interpret in a couple ways. Her older sister is gonna be taking over their dad's company for the rotom phones so her parents kinda just let her do what she wants in life.
I thought I was the only person who went crazy over thinking that Penny shared so many traits with the team star leaders. She likes tech (like Giacomo), tends to be shy (like Mela), is a bit eccentric and talks "weird" (like Atticus), is really sarcastic (like Ortega), and cares deeply about her friends (like Eri). also I'd put Nemona in neutral at the very least (probably in hard) because she had to deal with being the "gifted kid" and put on a pedestal above everyone else her age and could barely make friends because of it.
If the story follows the same beat it won't make sense. Kieran's biggest mistake was he never actually spent time with Ogerpon and he felt entitled to it.
@@langadube9611maybe in Pokémon horizons he does get to spent time with ogerpon. Cause it’s kinda obvious that the anime will not follow the story beat for beat.
One thing I will mention about Nemona is that although she doesn't really face hardships on the surface, in the 2nd dlc she does make a mention to the player that she's got insecurities about not being able to bound with the entire student body. Due to her being a champion rank trainer as well as an honor roll student, many people are intimidated by her and avoid her. This extends outside of when she's trying to battle them too. They believe she's perfect at everything so they tend to just stay out of her way. She brings up the fact that she can't aim a pokeball to save her life as an example of how she's not perfect and thanks the player for being able to see past everything and just be her friend. It actually made her my favorite rival. I enjoy her enthusiasm.
That and from what I remember she just sort of accidentally became a champion if that makes sense? Like I believe she was doing the gyms and elite four for fun and didn't realize just how big of a feat that is until afterwards and doesn't really like the pedestal that title gave her. Honestly all the rivals in SV need therapy lowkey.
I love how people say the DLC has bad writing because the characters do immoral things. If you can’t handle a story where people make mistakes, mistakes which deeply harm others, then I am so, so sorry for you, but you’ll never enjoy many amazing stories. If you want stories with characters that are unflawed, I’m sure there are many fan-fiction Mary Sue’s out there.
agreed!! I honestly enjoyed the writing for major SV characters the most because they are so unique in different ways. Top on my list besides Gen 5 for sure
I think the reason people don’t like it is because Kieran gets push to the sidelines right after the dlc All he wanted was to be included but carmine treated him like a baby for so long he pushes her away and just wanted to do smth on his own
Man in gen 2 some of the rivals lines are pretty heart breaking its just people only look at his often rude nature on the outside but on the inside hes just wanting to be loved and he thinks by being tough and rude he will y'know be loved again
The thing about you stealing everything from Kieran is that it's NOT for no reason. Gonna be honest, I was pretty disappointed with the DLC storyline. They had a chance to give Kieran the really interesting character arc you talked about, and they did on the surface. Look just underneath, though, and it's a clear message to the player, "But don't worry, no matter what they do or what growth we give them, the NPCs will never be as cool or interesting or talented as YOU, player!" Like, you steal and shatter this kid's dreams in some of the cruelest and underhanded ways- without player agency, either, remember; you can't choose to tell him about ogerpon or give back terapagos- and his whole story is about learning to accept his place not because he must "follow his own path" but because you're the protagonist. He shouldn't need a story about finding his own path, he HAD his own path, separate from his cool-kid sister and the other kids, but because Player Needs Their Legendary, you STOLE it. He can't have his own story because we need our ego stroked? Not only was it super jarring, it diminished his character and the story as a whole. It's not "suffering" because his very agency as a character is called into question, and without agency there's no growth.
The worst part? After you do the epilogue and get to trade with Kieran amd Carmine you cant even trade him the Ogrepon. It makes sense why you cant and it probably wouldn result in any cool or unique dialogue line. but id have liked to be able to do it reagrdless.
Not only this debacle with Ogerpon would have been avoided, but may I remind the fact that the number one person responsible for, well, ALL of Kieran's troubles, INCLUDING the Ogerpon drama, was Carmine? That sucker tried SO HARD to be the parent of her brother that she ended up nerfing his potential and growth to the point of dependance, something he wants free himself of. Litteraly the reason he looked up to Ogerpon. The writting was foul, and it fooled everyone who don't read between the lines, or read at all.
@@ninjask8988 Carmine doesn't hate her brother, it's just that she worried a bit too much about him, it's part of the themes of obsession. She was obsessed with having to protect him since that was how their dynamic was always. Kieran gets bullied and Carmine knocks the lights out of the bully. She just didn't realize that it was negatively impacting Kieran's growth until later on.
Let me preface by saying this is a thoughtful analysis of Keiran and I'm not saying you're wrong. But Keiran was an interesting character to me. Because of the way pokemon structures their games and you've noticed this clearly, the NPCs HAVE to lose and they can't have pokemon that there is only one of for lore reasons. So I enjoy seeing how Gamefreak writes their characters in this admittedly restricted framework they've set up. Going into this I expected kieran to lose, but not the journey he takes. Imo Keiran is one of their most ambitious and interesting. He's quiet but has a big ego as carmine says, strives for independance but lacks the strength of character, desires friendship but has a hard time connecting with others. He thinks HE'S the main character and is entitled to Ogrepons friendship. But we show up with our protagonist actions, lie to him and steal his dream. Granted not maliciously in either instance it was Carmine who was the catalyst. She didnt tell us to lie to him because she wanted to make fun of him. She knows him and tried to protect him from himself. Is she wrong? Sure. But she's well intentioned. Her overbearing, overprotective personality causes her to think he can't handle the truth. Keiran notices our protagonist tendencies, why are we so special, why does everything go our way? He doesn't accept this. It's a subtle 4th wall break He struggles against it and becomes obsessive the point of treating everyone around him like trash. Escalating to him becoming the strongest trainer in the game and a genuine problem that needs to be dealt with. It was throughly entertaining to see this progression. But you can also grab a few life lessons from the MC and Keiran's story like the importance of being honest, losing with grace, respecting people and pokemon's (animals) feelings, life doesnt go the same way you imagine etc. It's a nicely layered plot I think they put together given their limitations. A clash of Keiran and Carmine's character flaws created this situation. It shows us how small mistakes can effect a person and snowball into something larger. No there is no player agency but this is the story game freak chose to tell. Our actions as the player had consequences while keiran who sought strength, independence, and friendship found that in the end by making us the player his goal. He was a character who had to give up his dream and move on but found new strength in the process. That made him compelling to me and I'm realizing as I'm writing this he might be my favorite rival. Maybe it's because my expectations for pokemon characters are low but i thought keiran was a pleasant surprise and he became so much more than I thought he was going to be.
I can literally cry just by thinking about SIlver and N... its just too saddd ;-; Cheren is also one of my personal favourites But I didn't know about the Scarlet and Violet characters at all (except some of their names) because I'm still too broke to afford the save file (let alone the DLC) Anyway they do sound quite interesting BUT WHERE IS MY BRO ALAIN??? I think his story and development is also very nice, from being deceived to seeking for power to fighting in the Kalos League to realising Team Flare(?)'s true intentions
Kieran suffered much. But keep in mind that the protagonist of Scarlet and Violet is stuck in a timeloop. Each time you boot a save file, Juliana or Florian will relive their day as a first year highschool student who helped their senior in curing an infected dog from a primeval/future disease, reform Team Star, follow Nemona's demands, and eventually hurt Kieran to the point he resorts in abusing a baby tortoise inside an abyss full of fossilized Terapagos souls in the form of crystals.
wait, I don't get this. wouldn't you just start where you left off, even in-lore? there's no way all of it happened in one day, and for example, if you save on a wild zone, you'd just camp out there. (edit: like in the anime) that's how I see it anyway
@@MemeDude-rl9wk This one is more complex. When you catch Terapagos and after cutscenes, and visit Briars Class, you get the Book of Briar. Go to Crystal Lake and you'll meet a special someone. The REAL Professor from the past but they were brought in present time and given a book from the future. So they have access to stuff from the future in the past and a dialog has the player ask if they are an AI. So that possibly gave them the idea. So the player is in a Bootstrap Paradox due to that. They caused the events of the whole game!
There’s a time loop, though this falls under time paradox instead of time loop. It’s similar to the plot of Tears of the Kingdom, one person goes to the past and appears in the present due to magic for a limited amount of time to help the character accomplish their goal. I don’t think our character is brought to the past to relive those exact moments at all, rather it’s our actions that helps our character in the past achieve those goals so they may reach the level they did in the present day, so they can discover the secrets of area zero
The only rival who suffered (actually suffered, not just hurt fee fees) was the one whose sisters pokemon was stolen. And maybe gladion, with his severe carpal tunnel.
Kieran definitely suffered. Like did you not see the mental anguish he was in or am I just insane… like his whole personality changed that’s not normally caused by fun times with friends.
I feel you are under valuing Nemona's hardships. She is a girl cursed with raw talent and a love for battle so much that it made her an outcast to the rest of the students so much so many ran or straight out told her they wanted nothing to do with her. The only thing that gave her hope was a new trainer aka you the player as everyone just avoided her at all cost knowing that they could not win against her. Thanks to the player she is able to open up and gain true friends but if it was not for the player she would of remained an outcast.
For me this is why I now have this headcannon idea for the Pokémon series (which is pretty much npc discovers the truth) but it first starts for the protagonist we play as and as gens go on the players influence on the world to the npcs while to them it’s been one game after another. And for this headcannon this semi maybe started by MissingNo being captured, for my idea for this (basically being living code and in universe either just that or a piece of reality itself and causes the game to glitch out and slowly make the game more personalized to the player even through generations as they trade MissingNo from one game to another.) The hierarchy of how aware the npcs are goes from this (Arceus- god himself knows how the player looks and where they are in the situation and while hard to believe they do feel like theirs more than it meets the eye) (Legendary, Mythical pretty much Almost the same as Arceus except they see the glitchy mess of the player controlling the main protagonist) (Pokemon- no matter what species and type and power they can either faintly see or maybe see a bit more clearly who is the player (ie seeing them controlling the protagonist) and will challenge them to see if their worthy to join them this the same for all Pokémon.) (Protagonist-probably have a weird power from the Ui to my own idea of powers like the Pokédex holders but even with them being semi first for humans they still can’t understand who what where why how this is happening and it’s different for some individuals) due to the fact the knowledge might be overwhelming their brains or literally the game makes them mute (except some cases and especially to the entity being us the player is controlling them) whatever the case is they will slowly realize the “truth” and deal with it in different ways (idk for how tho at the moment) (Rival-almost close to the player in terms of how this could’ve happened (depending on story) and similarly have different viewpoints of what’s going on) (Champion- oddly enough different depending on who they are in all of this) (Prof. And or gymleader- they are even less aware of protagonists knowledge of the UI ) (Npc-nothing and can’t realize that the player is seeing their words many times) Ofc there are exceptions from npcs breaking the fourth wall, maybe (in gen 9’s case) the rivals know more what the player is a bit (penny might discover how to change the coding of Scarlet and Violet. Nemona read from a book about the legend of the Pokémon “master” and theirs a creature making them do this. Arven slowly piece together how the protagonist is able to do this) to maybe for headcannons sake I make one of them knowing more than meets the eye and the remakes where as the gens of the remakes would bump up the awareness of the characters) (also very minor headcannon I imagine the two protagonists being in their pokemon adventure together alongside their rivals this is true for both mainline (headcannon) and my headcannon within headcannon) So… yeah it’s basically (well known indie video game) and technically the story of Pokémon Twitch to the protagonist, etc perspective. (Sorry for this weird comment I just want to mention something about this)
Im genuinely surprised that N is considered a rival by some. This isn't a digg at you or anyone, but N being a rival just feels strange. Considering he's the "leader" of a villainous team, then Saturn or Mars could technically count as rivals too. Or am I just nuts and N actually does count as a rival? Lol Great video as always tho, keep it up! :)
N’s a very unique character in the series. With the role he plays in the story, he could be considered a rival, evil team leader/admin, and champion all at the same time.
It makes sense given that N treats you, the player, as a rival rather than a enemy like other team villains do. He even lets you obtain the opposing legendary and heals you before his battle so he can have a fair fight. Also, despite being Team Plasma's boss, he fights rather dependently from them. The only time you face him after beating a guantlet of grunts was in Chargestone Cave, and it was Ghetsis who ordered those grunts to be there to test you.
The rival in Gen 3 isn't wally, it's the player. Gen 1 the rival is the grandson of the prof. Gen 2 the rival is the son of a gym leader. Gen 3 you are the son/daughter of a prof/gym leader who is always one step ahead of him, challenging him as he approaches the pokemon league and becomes champion before him
3 rivals who suffered the most. 1. Blue 2. Hugh 3. Wally Blue (probably) lost one of his best pokemon after a battle with Red on the SS Anne Hugh developed a lot of anger management issues after Team plasma stole his sister's purrloin and he was too young to be able to do anything And Wally had serious medical problems. Namely Asthma. And he seemed to be getting better thanks to ralts/gallade. But we had to beat up his pokemon right at the end of victory road 😔
Gladions carpal tunnel is pretty bad. But bianca? She's just told by her dad she shouldn't try for the dangerous job of trainer as her clutzy self. He's perfectly right too!
6:13 you know people have theories of him especially in this part of the battle with wally that he waa already dying especially with florers behind him more specifically those red flower's since they resemble the red spider lily's a flower in japanese culture to be a symbol for death or loss so people have a theory that he was dying from his illness and it is possible but we may never know
It seems that Kieran has one of the most dramatic, and seems the most aggressive towards the player in terms on the aggressiveness stems from anger and hatred, isn't it ?
My favorite rival is tie between Nemona and Carmine. Nemona was so good natured but a challenge and Carmine’s relationship with the player is special plus i find her hilarious. Kieran honestly annoyed me but i understand why he behaved like he did. I was convinced prior to indigo disk he was going to try to steal Koridon/Miriadon. I also love the relationship with Brendan and May their date at the end of Oras was so cute.
I agree with you. I don't know how most fans determine it, but in my eyes, if they don't want to fight you every other badge or so, they aren't a rival. The exception to this is BW, where they fight you every 10 minutes.
@PokemonNerd265 All of those characters are your friends who have no interest in competition against you. In the case of Lilie, Arven, and Penny, you are actively helping them throughout your journey. Penny technically fills the evil team leader role this Gen but with the twist of you helping her dismantle her own team. I don't think Pokemon fans know what rivals are lmfao.
It’s so obviously an umbrella term used to encompass the other main characters. Like… it’s not that hard to see. Maybe if your definition of something doesn’t fit someone else’s, look at what they might be trying to say. You might find that they are using metaphors.
I'm not dead!!! Im very much alive!!! Well i think there not in good shape! Here i am! I am Ninetales! Diana! She's a drug dealer and his a narcissist!
Kieran imo suffered the most, Carmine (HIS SISTER BTW) didn't give a living shit about him in the teal mask and my guy fantasised about ogerpon his whole life despite the people saying otherwise only for us (the only person he deemed trustworthy) and his Shitty and annoying older sister Carmine to hide and lie about the fact that the ogre was real and when he did find out, the ogre chose us instead of kieran. Then in blueberry academy after suffering and pain he endured from his sister and sadly us he only cared about winning over his own mental health and wellbeing. And if you bring out ogerpon in the champion battle agaist him he gets mad at us because of what happened in the teal mask and when he had a chance to catch terapagos we yet again steal it from him but this time he finds out his ways and recovers mentally. IMO he was just one of the most heartbroken rivals.
20:49 I’m quite disappointed that you put Nemona on easy bc Nemona, despite happened to live a rich family is still suffering bc of something between her family which I have forgotten and bc of her being on of the strongest trainers in the region. The reason why I said that bc Nemona never goes all out when battling any other trainers until the final battle after you became of the Pokémon champions bc people said that she’s too strong (said after the area zero thing) and no, it’s not left a mystery my gosh. I would put in hard or neutral, not fricking easy.
Did you miss his whole “mental breakdown personality change and possible possession?” On top of his social anxiety in the first dlc? And him doing so much more for Ogrepon than we ever did yet not ending up with her on his team just because we happened to find her first?
Screw you Kieran, I listened to your grandfather, I listened to Ogerpon, and I saved you from terapagos, I’m glad the final fight against you I used my overpowered team
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Wally had potential only to completely ruin himself mentally, he stayed in that victory road cave despite the elite 4 being right there
I would have put Blue in hard. He aims to be the best to earn Oaks praise, but never gets it. In FRLG if he beats you in the lab, Oak says it's "disappointing" and when you beat him as a champion, Oak still says he's disappointed in Blue. He just can't win. We don't see it, but I think Lance stepped in and became a mentor for Blue which is why we see him as a gym leader in Gen two and it's remakes
after defeating terapagos you have the option to not catch it. Choosing the option will have kieran telling you that you have to be the one catching terapagos. This just shows how much the developers hate kieran. Bro can't even get his turtle even though the main character offers him the turtle
They killed my furret they deserve all the pain and grief in the world
I think there is a creepypasta about wally dying because he wanted to be strong enough to beat the player but getting a bad case of asthma and died from exhaustion. And sadly enough, he gets one last fight with the player, but sadly in the cartoon's heroes always win, he loses and was given the line, "Why can't you let me win?".
Ahh yes, ive seem that… and everyone turns on you…
There is also a comic strip like that iirc…
Kieran has it the worst out of all rivals.
In the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero, you’re not the good hero, you are partially at blame for Kieran’s insanity, you as the player break his trust! It wasn’t knowing about Ogerpon’s true story that made him snap, it was the player *lying* to his face, with potential corruption from Pecharunt. You treat him like dirt when was your friend, to the point where he only cares about getting stronger to defeat you, who unknowing to the characters, gets to try again until you beat him in that championship match!
REAL FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT (like I know a lot of people also know this but like so many people don’t)
Gladion suffered the most
-family issues.
-his Mom is sick(is doing well in USUM if I remember correctly)
-his father remained having an amnesia not remembering Gladion and his own family.
He's a rich boy with an entire island at his command. The only issues he has is carpal tunnel
@@liberalistbat6352 Youre incredibly naive if you think bring rich is the answer to every issued in life.
Don't forget he was attacked by one of humanity's attempts to play Arceus
Pretty safe assumption that the Aether kids were emotionally abused after Mohn vanished. Being rich isn't ever going to undo those scars, along with your father being completely gone from your life, your mother being comatose (or poorly written in USUM's case...), and the gnawing regret you had to leave the one person you still cared about behind with the monster you feared most.
We still under the assumption that he's just fine?
@@General_C Imagine telling bruce wayne that hes got it good because youre a billionaire. I swear, money doesnt make it all better.
I think a teir list focused on the Professors and what they specialize in studying would be cool. Probably seeing how smart or impactful their field is compared to others.
Nemona should be higher. She barely has any non-financial support, especially before we arrive, being seen only ever speaking to us and the other rivals, as well as adults. She also had to work hard to get where she is today, but because she’s rich no one sees what she’s accomplished, degrading her by saying it was natural-born talent, or calling her (I think) a princess, allowed to have whatever she wants whenever she wants. She expresses how much this upsets her in the post-game, and I can’t help but agree that she’s completely valid to be upset. How would you feel if you worked incredibly hard to obtain or be able to do something, and someone walks over and tells you that thing isn’t something you should be proud of because you you’re rich. On top of that, in-game, as I mentioned earlier, she’s only really seen talking to adults, us, Arven, and Penny, even though she should be much more popular. She’s shunned by her peers for her accomplishments even though she should be praised. She’s class president, the youngest champion (maybe excluding us), an amazing trainer, and a hardworking and outgoing person, yet no one seems to like her, not even our character and the other rivals. She’s seen as annoying and tiring by everyone, and just played off like a joke.
oof. I know I didn’t like her from the beginning. she came into our character a little strong by wanting to be friends straight away.
Ngl for Nemona she is just some talkative person with neglected parents that’s why she likes to talk to us the protagonist cause she has no one to talk to, cause people hate how she loves battling so much that they just ignore her. I think why her parents neglect her is cause of some business, as they are always working for the money while never talking to Nemona I would say she would be at the hard chart.
I'd say neutral tier at the very least, maybe hard. Her and Penny have really similar issues, they just act completely differently about them.
Actually from the dialogue on the way down to area zero, Nemona did say her parents are normal, albeit she calls them "Mother." and "Father." which you can interpret in a couple ways.
Her older sister is gonna be taking over their dad's company for the rotom phones so her parents kinda just let her do what she wants in life.
I thought I was the only person who went crazy over thinking that Penny shared so many traits with the team star leaders. She likes tech (like Giacomo), tends to be shy (like Mela), is a bit eccentric and talks "weird" (like Atticus), is really sarcastic (like Ortega), and cares deeply about her friends (like Eri).
also I'd put Nemona in neutral at the very least (probably in hard) because she had to deal with being the "gifted kid" and put on a pedestal above everyone else her age and could barely make friends because of it.
Kieran should be in horizons and get ogerpon
I love you for that
If the story follows the same beat it won't make sense. Kieran's biggest mistake was he never actually spent time with Ogerpon and he felt entitled to it.
@@langadube9611maybe in Pokémon horizons he does get to spent time with ogerpon. Cause it’s kinda obvious that the anime will not follow the story beat for beat.
@@lespena3722 Then Kieran becomes a less interesting character if he doesn't have his character arc.
@@langadube9611the mc spends 1 day with it, with that logic carmine could have caught her
Kieran be hitting the nothing happend pose
One thing I will mention about Nemona is that although she doesn't really face hardships on the surface, in the 2nd dlc she does make a mention to the player that she's got insecurities about not being able to bound with the entire student body.
Due to her being a champion rank trainer as well as an honor roll student, many people are intimidated by her and avoid her. This extends outside of when she's trying to battle them too. They believe she's perfect at everything so they tend to just stay out of her way.
She brings up the fact that she can't aim a pokeball to save her life as an example of how she's not perfect and thanks the player for being able to see past everything and just be her friend.
It actually made her my favorite rival. I enjoy her enthusiasm.
That and from what I remember she just sort of accidentally became a champion if that makes sense? Like I believe she was doing the gyms and elite four for fun and didn't realize just how big of a feat that is until afterwards and doesn't really like the pedestal that title gave her.
Honestly all the rivals in SV need therapy lowkey.
I love how people say the DLC has bad writing because the characters do immoral things. If you can’t handle a story where people make mistakes, mistakes which deeply harm others, then I am so, so sorry for you, but you’ll never enjoy many amazing stories. If you want stories with characters that are unflawed, I’m sure there are many fan-fiction Mary Sue’s out there.
agreed!! I honestly enjoyed the writing for major SV characters the most because they are so unique in different ways. Top on my list besides Gen 5 for sure
I think the reason people don’t like it is because Kieran gets push to the sidelines right after the dlc
All he wanted was to be included but carmine treated him like a baby for so long he pushes her away and just wanted to do smth on his own
I hope you make a “What main protagonist went through a lot in their main adventures (dlc included for the recent games)”
Man in gen 2 some of the rivals lines are pretty heart breaking its just people only look at his often rude nature on the outside but on the inside hes just wanting to be loved and he thinks by being tough and rude he will y'know be loved again
is that nothing happened with kieran in the thumbnail? im crying thats hilarious
The thing about you stealing everything from Kieran is that it's NOT for no reason. Gonna be honest, I was pretty disappointed with the DLC storyline. They had a chance to give Kieran the really interesting character arc you talked about, and they did on the surface. Look just underneath, though, and it's a clear message to the player, "But don't worry, no matter what they do or what growth we give them, the NPCs will never be as cool or interesting or talented as YOU, player!" Like, you steal and shatter this kid's dreams in some of the cruelest and underhanded ways- without player agency, either, remember; you can't choose to tell him about ogerpon or give back terapagos- and his whole story is about learning to accept his place not because he must "follow his own path" but because you're the protagonist. He shouldn't need a story about finding his own path, he HAD his own path, separate from his cool-kid sister and the other kids, but because Player Needs Their Legendary, you STOLE it. He can't have his own story because we need our ego stroked? Not only was it super jarring, it diminished his character and the story as a whole. It's not "suffering" because his very agency as a character is called into question, and without agency there's no growth.
The worst part? After you do the epilogue and get to trade with Kieran amd Carmine you cant even trade him the Ogrepon. It makes sense why you cant and it probably wouldn result in any cool or unique dialogue line. but id have liked to be able to do it reagrdless.
Not only this debacle with Ogerpon would have been avoided, but may I remind the fact that the number one person responsible for, well, ALL of Kieran's troubles, INCLUDING the Ogerpon drama, was Carmine? That sucker tried SO HARD to be the parent of her brother that she ended up nerfing his potential and growth to the point of dependance, something he wants free himself of. Litteraly the reason he looked up to Ogerpon. The writting was foul, and it fooled everyone who don't read between the lines, or read at all.
@@tigrexkiller1548
On the positive side. You can duplicate your events Walking Wake and give the clone to him.
@@ninjask8988 Carmine doesn't hate her brother, it's just that she worried a bit too much about him, it's part of the themes of obsession. She was obsessed with having to protect him since that was how their dynamic was always. Kieran gets bullied and Carmine knocks the lights out of the bully. She just didn't realize that it was negatively impacting Kieran's growth until later on.
Let me preface by saying this is a thoughtful analysis of Keiran and I'm not saying you're wrong. But Keiran was an interesting character to me. Because of the way pokemon structures their games and you've noticed this clearly, the NPCs HAVE to lose and they can't have pokemon that there is only one of for lore reasons. So I enjoy seeing how Gamefreak writes their characters in this admittedly restricted framework they've set up. Going into this I expected kieran to lose, but not the journey he takes. Imo Keiran is one of their most ambitious and interesting. He's quiet but has a big ego as carmine says, strives for independance but lacks the strength of character, desires friendship but has a hard time connecting with others. He thinks HE'S the main character and is entitled to Ogrepons friendship. But we show up with our protagonist actions, lie to him and steal his dream. Granted not maliciously in either instance it was Carmine who was the catalyst. She didnt tell us to lie to him because she wanted to make fun of him. She knows him and tried to protect him from himself. Is she wrong? Sure. But she's well intentioned. Her overbearing, overprotective personality causes her to think he can't handle the truth. Keiran notices our protagonist tendencies, why are we so special, why does everything go our way? He doesn't accept this. It's a subtle 4th wall break He struggles against it and becomes obsessive the point of treating everyone around him like trash. Escalating to him becoming the strongest trainer in the game and a genuine problem that needs to be dealt with. It was throughly entertaining to see this progression. But you can also grab a few life lessons from the MC and Keiran's story like the importance of being honest, losing with grace, respecting people and pokemon's (animals) feelings, life doesnt go the same way you imagine etc. It's a nicely layered plot I think they put together given their limitations. A clash of Keiran and Carmine's character flaws created this situation. It shows us how small mistakes can effect a person and snowball into something larger. No there is no player agency but this is the story game freak chose to tell. Our actions as the player had consequences while keiran who sought strength, independence, and friendship found that in the end by making us the player his goal. He was a character who had to give up his dream and move on but found new strength in the process. That made him compelling to me and I'm realizing as I'm writing this he might be my favorite rival. Maybe it's because my expectations for pokemon characters are low but i thought keiran was a pleasant surprise and he became so much more than I thought he was going to be.
Relook at Nemona’s arc. She has it pretty rough.
I can literally cry just by thinking about SIlver and N... its just too saddd ;-;
Cheren is also one of my personal favourites
But I didn't know about the Scarlet and Violet characters at all (except some of their names) because I'm still too broke to afford the save file (let alone the DLC) Anyway they do sound quite interesting
BUT WHERE IS MY BRO ALAIN??? I think his story and development is also very nice, from being deceived to seeking for power to fighting in the Kalos League to realising Team Flare(?)'s true intentions
Kieran suffered much. But keep in mind that the protagonist of Scarlet and Violet is stuck in a timeloop. Each time you boot a save file, Juliana or Florian will relive their day as a first year highschool student who helped their senior in curing an infected dog from a primeval/future disease, reform Team Star, follow Nemona's demands, and eventually hurt Kieran to the point he resorts in abusing a baby tortoise inside an abyss full of fossilized Terapagos souls in the form of crystals.
Isn’t that true with any game?
wait, I don't get this. wouldn't you just start where you left off, even in-lore? there's no way all of it happened in one day, and for example, if you save on a wild zone, you'd just camp out there. (edit: like in the anime) that's how I see it anyway
@@MemeDude-rl9wk This one is more complex. When you catch Terapagos and after cutscenes, and visit Briars Class, you get the Book of Briar. Go to Crystal Lake and you'll meet a special someone. The REAL Professor from the past but they were brought in present time and given a book from the future.
So they have access to stuff from the future in the past and a dialog has the player ask if they are an AI. So that possibly gave them the idea.
So the player is in a Bootstrap Paradox due to that. They caused the events of the whole game!
There’s a time loop, though this falls under time paradox instead of time loop. It’s similar to the plot of Tears of the Kingdom, one person goes to the past and appears in the present due to magic for a limited amount of time to help the character accomplish their goal. I don’t think our character is brought to the past to relive those exact moments at all, rather it’s our actions that helps our character in the past achieve those goals so they may reach the level they did in the present day, so they can discover the secrets of area zero
@@MemeDude-rl9wk not really. It is confirmed that the scarlet and violet games themselves are paradoxes. They're a constant cycle.
The only rival who suffered (actually suffered, not just hurt fee fees) was the one whose sisters pokemon was stolen.
And maybe gladion, with his severe carpal tunnel.
Kieran definitely suffered. Like did you not see the mental anguish he was in or am I just insane… like his whole personality changed that’s not normally caused by fun times with friends.
I feel you are under valuing Nemona's hardships. She is a girl cursed with raw talent and a love for battle so much that it made her an outcast to the rest of the students so much so many ran or straight out told her they wanted nothing to do with her. The only thing that gave her hope was a new trainer aka you the player as everyone just avoided her at all cost knowing that they could not win against her. Thanks to the player she is able to open up and gain true friends but if it was not for the player she would of remained an outcast.
For me this is why I now have this headcannon idea for the Pokémon series (which is pretty much npc discovers the truth) but it first starts for the protagonist we play as and as gens go on the players influence on the world to the npcs while to them it’s been one game after another. And for this headcannon this semi maybe started by MissingNo being captured, for my idea for this (basically being living code and in universe either just that or a piece of reality itself and causes the game to glitch out and slowly make the game more personalized to the player even through generations as they trade MissingNo from one game to another.)
The hierarchy of how aware the npcs are goes from this
(Arceus- god himself knows how the player looks and where they are in the situation and while hard to believe they do feel like theirs more than it meets the eye)
(Legendary, Mythical pretty much Almost the same as Arceus except they see the glitchy mess of the player controlling the main protagonist)
(Pokemon- no matter what species and type and power they can either faintly see or maybe see a bit more clearly who is the player (ie seeing them controlling the protagonist) and will challenge them to see if their worthy to join them this the same for all Pokémon.)
(Protagonist-probably have a weird power from the Ui to my own idea of powers like the Pokédex holders but even with them being semi first for humans they still can’t understand who what where why how this is happening and it’s different for some individuals) due to the fact the knowledge might be overwhelming their brains or literally the game makes them mute (except some cases and especially to the entity being us the player is controlling them) whatever the case is they will slowly realize the “truth” and deal with it in different ways (idk for how tho at the moment)
(Rival-almost close to the player in terms of how this could’ve happened (depending on story) and similarly have different viewpoints of what’s going on)
(Champion- oddly enough different depending on who they are in all of this)
(Prof. And or gymleader- they are even less aware of protagonists knowledge of the UI )
(Npc-nothing and can’t realize that the player is seeing their words many times)
Ofc there are exceptions from npcs breaking the fourth wall, maybe (in gen 9’s case) the rivals know more what the player is a bit (penny might discover how to change the coding of Scarlet and Violet. Nemona read from a book about the legend of the Pokémon “master” and theirs a creature making them do this. Arven slowly piece together how the protagonist is able to do this) to maybe for headcannons sake I make one of them knowing more than meets the eye and the remakes where as the gens of the remakes would bump up the awareness of the characters) (also very minor headcannon I imagine the two protagonists being in their pokemon adventure together alongside their rivals this is true for both mainline (headcannon) and my headcannon within headcannon)
So… yeah it’s basically (well known indie video game) and technically the story of Pokémon Twitch to the protagonist, etc perspective. (Sorry for this weird comment I just want to mention something about this)
Im genuinely surprised that N is considered a rival by some. This isn't a digg at you or anyone, but N being a rival just feels strange. Considering he's the "leader" of a villainous team, then Saturn or Mars could technically count as rivals too. Or am I just nuts and N actually does count as a rival? Lol
Great video as always tho, keep it up! :)
N’s a very unique character in the series. With the role he plays in the story, he could be considered a rival, evil team leader/admin, and champion all at the same time.
@@DaSheepKillerProbably closer to Admin considering who's *really* pulling the strings. N was always a puppet.
It makes sense given that N treats you, the player, as a rival rather than a enemy like other team villains do. He even lets you obtain the opposing legendary and heals you before his battle so he can have a fair fight. Also, despite being Team Plasma's boss, he fights rather dependently from them. The only time you face him after beating a guantlet of grunts was in Chargestone Cave, and it was Ghetsis who ordered those grunts to be there to test you.
The rival in Gen 3 isn't wally, it's the player. Gen 1 the rival is the grandson of the prof. Gen 2 the rival is the son of a gym leader. Gen 3 you are the son/daughter of a prof/gym leader who is always one step ahead of him, challenging him as he approaches the pokemon league and becomes champion before him
3 rivals who suffered the most.
1. Blue
2. Hugh
3. Wally
Blue (probably) lost one of his best pokemon after a battle with Red on the SS Anne
Hugh developed a lot of anger management issues after Team plasma stole his sister's purrloin and he was too young to be able to do anything
And Wally had serious medical problems. Namely Asthma. And he seemed to be getting better thanks to ralts/gallade. But we had to beat up his pokemon right at the end of victory road 😔
Gladion easily. Then I'd say Bianca. To round out top 3, maybe Silver though all things considered he was better off than the alternative timeline
Gladions carpal tunnel is pretty bad.
But bianca? She's just told by her dad she shouldn't try for the dangerous job of trainer as her clutzy self. He's perfectly right too!
HOW DARE YOU!!! Bianca can do no wrong 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
Gamefreak saw that one Wally Creepypasta, and said.. “Kieran.”
6:13 you know people have theories of him especially in this part of the battle with wally that he waa already dying especially with florers behind him more specifically those red flower's since they resemble the red spider lily's a flower in japanese culture to be a symbol for death or loss so people have a theory that he was dying from his illness and it is possible but we may never know
It seems that Kieran has one of the most dramatic, and seems the most aggressive towards the player in terms on the aggressiveness stems from anger and hatred, isn't it ?
Pfft at Mewto using psychic against Serena’s Dark type Greninja though
Lillie isn’t a rival
Lillie and Arven aren't rivals
I thought bede was a girl at one time
I think blue is also a contender
He lost to red all his life and when reds charizard beat his blastoise he finally gave up
I say this respectfully you sound like Dexter
“ex champion” drayton Pokémon scarlet/ violet
Hey where did most of these clips like the 3D animated ones come from? I can't find them?
One thing for sure
Not Gary and not Barry either
Anime Hau suffered the most
WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT KIERAN NOTHING HAPPENED
1:28
U don't think it's weird his Charizard has 1 horn? I know why it does but just wondering 😊
I think it was the initial gender difference for male and female Charizard.
@@PokemonNerd265 correct
I'm not crying your crying
My favorite rival is tie between Nemona and Carmine. Nemona was so good natured but a challenge and Carmine’s relationship with the player is special plus i find her hilarious. Kieran honestly annoyed me but i understand why he behaved like he did. I was convinced prior to indigo disk he was going to try to steal Koridon/Miriadon. I also love the relationship with Brendan and May their date at the end of Oras was so cute.
Carmine isn't a rival
@saucymongoose7246 it’s an umbrella term idiot.
Some rivals like kieran and wally have made me realize the player is a real shitty person, like they've done a lot of fucked up things
Holy crap he fucked up and evil now
sigh volo shouldve been on the list😭
Where did you get those Xtra screen from?
Gladion
Theres no way you pit LILY of all people in top teir but not kerian?
Lyra, Lilie, Arven, and Penny are not rivals. I'm tired of people counting them as one.
I agree with you. I don't know how most fans determine it, but in my eyes, if they don't want to fight you every other badge or so, they aren't a rival. The exception to this is BW, where they fight you every 10 minutes.
@PokemonNerd265 All of those characters are your friends who have no interest in competition against you. In the case of Lilie, Arven, and Penny, you are actively helping them throughout your journey. Penny technically fills the evil team leader role this Gen but with the twist of you helping her dismantle her own team. I don't think Pokemon fans know what rivals are lmfao.
@@saucymongoose7246 This makes sense. Thank you.
It’s so obviously an umbrella term used to encompass the other main characters. Like… it’s not that hard to see. Maybe if your definition of something doesn’t fit someone else’s, look at what they might be trying to say. You might find that they are using metaphors.
Exactly!
I'm not dead!!! Im very much alive!!! Well i think there not in good shape! Here i am! I am Ninetales! Diana! She's a drug dealer and his a narcissist!
I was never in this game! They were jealous because if i knew this game in and out i would kick there asses royally! Diana
Not kieran because nothing happened to him
I mean he lost his dream pokemon so he went on his emo arc
Kieran imo suffered the most, Carmine (HIS SISTER BTW) didn't give a living shit about him in the teal mask and my guy fantasised about ogerpon his whole life despite the people saying otherwise only for us (the only person he deemed trustworthy) and his Shitty and annoying older sister Carmine to hide and lie about the fact that the ogre was real and when he did find out, the ogre chose us instead of kieran. Then in blueberry academy after suffering and pain he endured from his sister and sadly us he only cared about winning over his own mental health and wellbeing. And if you bring out ogerpon in the champion battle agaist him he gets mad at us because of what happened in the teal mask and when he had a chance to catch terapagos we yet again steal it from him but this time he finds out his ways and recovers mentally. IMO he was just one of the most heartbroken rivals.
wow i am dissapointed at the last generation
Why
fäther
16:36 Is that a boy?
Is nobody talking about the theories with the player killing your rivals Raticate in the original game
I understand how people feel bad for Kieran
*BUT WHEN YOUR IN THE SCRATCH POKÉMON FANDOM ITS JUST KIERAN THIS AND KIERAN THAT-*
Drayton will always be the epitome of human garbage to me for what he did to Kieran.
20:49 I’m quite disappointed that you put Nemona on easy bc Nemona, despite happened to live a rich family is still suffering bc of something between her family which I have forgotten and bc of her being on of the strongest trainers in the region. The reason why I said that bc Nemona never goes all out when battling any other trainers until the final battle after you became of the Pokémon champions bc people said that she’s too strong (said after the area zero thing) and no, it’s not left a mystery my gosh. I would put in hard or neutral, not fricking easy.
Use commas kid
@@3twibles4sweetrevenge I did, wdym
Blues rat literly dies how is that not depressing(I know it was a ratikate)
Wdym Kieran suffered? Nothing happened to him!
Did you miss his whole “mental breakdown personality change and possible possession?” On top of his social anxiety in the first dlc? And him doing so much more for Ogrepon than we ever did yet not ending up with her on his team just because we happened to find her first?
@@HildesRoneta dude look at the thumbnail.
Screw you Kieran, I listened to your grandfather, I listened to Ogerpon, and I saved you from terapagos, I’m glad the final fight against you I used my overpowered team
And the crowd is… confused?