Made Too Well
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2023
- Striving to make the best possible product has unforeseen consequences.
20:03 / 21:26
Why Don't I Just Make A Few Pedals? - • Why Don't I Just Make ...
The Promised Land Of Kits - • The Promised Land Of Kits
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I love how Fran lays out, concisely, explicitly and firmly her actual experience in manufacturing and the comments are all questioning that - "what if" this and "what about" that.
I think it points in part to how dystopian the current consumer culture really is.
LEGO: NOPE!
They're all NPC bots.
I think Fran would be surprised if she would try some pedals again and promote them on RUclips, promote them as a way for people to support her. Sell them her self, instead of through some 3rd party. She has a whole new audience (potential sales) now compared to when she was making the pedals before. But Fran does seem to get stuck on the "what if" part of everything, I do get it, but she will never know if she doesn't try it.
@@procrastinatingnerd no question about it, she can cut out the Retailers, Distributors, etc and sell direct to the public using an asset she already owns...
This was eye-opening. How sad that we can't have well-made, long-lasting stuff for fear of market saturation. Means less would go to landfill, too. ☹️ Your integrity and the meticulous care you took in manufacturing Frantone pedals to the highest standard, sparing no expense, is really something to be proud of.
Howard Scott wrote about this problem over 100 years ago. Build it too well, go out of business
We used to, way back when that was actually a necessity. But over time we have deliberately chosen to build a system that rewards cheaply made garbage instead of quality production.
But most people actively don't want quality. Most people want something new and shiny as often as possible; they don't mind an excuse to "upgrade" when the old one fails. I'd bet most people would gladly buy a new phone every month if they could afford to and the transfer process was easy enough. So we get products built to last about as long as they think it'll take you to be able to afford a new one.
Nobody's gonna be impressed these days if you're walking around in your grandfather's suit...they'll think you're cheap and they'll probably make fun of you for not buying something new...
@@Urza9814I just wish there was a parallel market for the minority of us who love owning old shit and fixing it ourselves and don’t feel the urge to buy new crap.
I think there is an overlooked aspect to this.
If one market is saturated, you can adapt- find a new market or come up with a new product.
I constantly have ideas. And it's not as if society profits from shoddy products or owes anyone a constant profit stream.
It's the same with "think about the jobs" resistance to climate adaptation. The economy changes constantly, so move with it, don't fight it.
One problem is, most workers don't have control over workplaces, and businesses are absolutely forced to compete with the shoddiest, least sustainable products made by more powerful companies clutching their pearls.
@@MagnumInnominandum Yeah... it's a long-standing problem. But it doesn't have to be this way. It's only in the twisted logics of capitalism that this is inevitable. There are other options... especially in the case of a large organization, which can build a variety of products to high quality standards, pivoting as needed based on what's needed for use -- rather than just building whatever is most profitable in the moment.
every time i bought a slow-cooker of any manufacturer, I'm shocked to find it's been recalled, as I'm placing food in it... LOL
Hi Fran, this episode immediately made me think of one of the prime examples of "too well made", namely the company Proteus in the UK.
They made mills mainly intended for use in beer breweries and whisky distilleries. They are used to mill the malted barley to a consistency suitable to make the wort for fermentation. There were other companies making similar mills, many of which that also fits the description too well made, but Proteus is still the prime example.
These mills were produced and sold a lot in about 1890 - 1930 something. They are made from cast iron and has very high quality castings. Some parts are made from forged steel and other materials deemed appropriate. The rollers inside that performs the actual milling can be adjusted both up and down and sideways, which means that almost no matter how much they wear you can still get the mill to continue working perfectly.
In the early days most of these mills were driven by water wheels powered from a nearby river or creek. A bit later many of them were driven by steam engines, yet a bit later some were driven by hit and miss crude oil engines. In the 40ies and 50ies most of them were equipped with electric motors, and it is not very unusual to see the original motors from that time still driving them today.
So, what happened to Proteus? Well, as soon as all breweries and distilleries in the UK and it´s colonies had purchased a Proteus mill, or a similar mill from another similar company, almost no one wanted to buy any more mills. I have read somewhere that more than 80% of the mills Proteus made about 90 - 130 years ago are still in commercial operation to this very day... To me that feels like strong enough evidence that they might have been a slight touch "to well made" 😄
My mother bought an oster blender in 1969 and it was still functional in the mid-2010's, although the bearings were just starting to go. We bought one for our son when he went away to college in 2009. It lasted 4 months.
I bought an new oster can opener for my mom, and it lasted a few months. Then I bought a used sunbeam which still functions years later.
we still use my grandmothers Osterizer from the 40’s, nearly 80 years of service
Home depot's default margin is 30%. I engineered for a company that sold a lot of product to them and most of the time HD made more money than the company making the product (which was a lot more work than a retailer that's effectively a warehouse). The biggest reason we sold to them is because the increased volume lowered our piece part cost so we could make more profit at our direct sales distributors.
I agree the retail gross margin is pretty high, but so are their costs. My family has a retail office supply business. Back in the 1970's gross margin was 37% probably significantly lower now a days. It is surprisingly costly to sell in onesies and twosies. Most folks have no idea how little the actual producers get be it manufactures or farmers compared to the retail price.
@@tomschmidt381 yea I didn't mean to say retail isn't hard, but compared to creating the product itself you would think it would be more rewarding. Also the retailer has lower risk. If a product doesn't sell, they don't have to heavily discount it. They can just tell the wholesaler it isn't selling and it's taking up shelf space. The manufacturer then has to refund and typically pay to ship it back, then deal with selling the product.
Music retailers want an A markup. 40-50%
@@toyotaboyhatman Everyone wants to be a aggregator, rather then a producer. Something else that is happening is the retail space is consolidating giving the big retailers ever more power over producers. Sell it to us for this price or we will buy it from your competitor.
@@tomschmidt381 yes, Walmart is super aggressive that way. They have the most brick and mortar stores so they hold the cards. Of course Amazon and Shopify are both changing the game. Unless it's a heavy item, or you need it same day.. brick and mortar is becoming less needed.
What the ...
I've been watching your videos for ages. Can't believe you're the designer / builder of the Frantone pedals - and I only just realised it. Unreal!
Let’s not underestimate the role of private equity in this bankruptcy. Private equity firms buy up successful companies, find ways to pump the margins in the short term, and then declare bankruptcy after a few years and move on to the next company to destroy. Art Van Furniture in Detroit was around for 60 years, got bought by PE, and went out of business four years later. PE came for Instant Pot in 2019, it’s now four years later….. This is the business model, and not a failure in the eyes of the people that made money off it.
Yes. Current PE has a nicer patina than the brutal tactics of "Chainsaw" Al Dunlap, but the results are the same.
I used to work on the Presses for U.C. Printing Services in Berkeley, and I recall printing a brochure for an Engineering Graduate Conference themed on the subject of "Controlling Product Life Cycles". I reckon that this is where most of our current research and development money is invested by Fearless Leader, as it is the one field where the United States maintains a Strategic Advantage.
I have a friend who made a extremely good product and was successful - he just sold the (small) company so he could retire. The key is to control the entire supply chain - YOU do the retail sales.
It was difficult in the past to do direct sales, having to establish a brand through magazine advertising, but more feasible now with the web and cart shopping systems.
I see a few commentors have used the term "Planned obsolescence" in the context of meaning a product that will wear out quickly. This is actually not the meaning of this often misunderstood term. it was coined by Industrial Designer Brooks Stevens. It means changing a design, even if only cosmetically, so the consumer now sees the one they already own, even if perfectly functional, as "obsolete" and replaces it with a new one. It encourages sales. For example, Stevens contracted to Evinrude and made numerous external appearance changes to their outboard motors while the innards were unchanged. 1950's U.S. automobiles are a sterling example of "planned obsolescence." Especially then (but still true to an extent today although for the life of me I can scarcely tell cars apart and they don't change much annually) many didn't want to be seen driving "last year's" model. It does not mean a product is designed to become obsolete by failure, but by perception.
Here in Belgium NOVA made mixers, toasters, irons etc… These appliances were built to last and oh boy did they. Sadly it ended in bankruptcy for the same reason you mentioned. To us admirers of good design, quality, durability and repairability this is a sad reality.
Reminds me of Kudelski and Nagra - these recorders that were absolute things of beauty, built to last, they just didn't break. They were expensive, of course - and Nagra refused to go cheap, they eventually had to stop making these really real reel-to-reels, develop digital recorders to stay in the market.
I used to be friends with a guy who co-ran Black Dog Amplification. His amps were somewhat inspired by Trainwreck and Matchless, mighty good quality... but there was almost no profit in it, and it was around 2005-6, when I was learning the tube stuff. Now, with economy down in the dumps and Chinese stuff all over the place, I can't see that.
Another thing is that desirability rides on promises and hype rather than actual quality. Tell'em and sell'em. Verification comes later, or never (if the buyer is blinded by the company/product and can't think critically)... cash made, time to close and move somewhere else, rinse, repeat. Quaestionable ethics in the name of greed.
Nagra had to go digital. That is just the way that the industry they sold to was moving. Sound Devices who makes the mixers that were often used with Nagras has also gone digital.
Had worked for an Enteprenuer in my teens ( piecemeal) making mini- trampoline joggers, we did as much in- house except for spring mfg. Top quality does come at a price, learned alot at an early age of the woes you go thru @ the mfg level
Instant Pot's troubles started after some recalls and a merger. The new management wanted them to diversify their product line and change things. I'm convinced that if they had stuck to making their core product, and not sold out, they would still be doing OK today.
I wonder what will happen
I think private equity raiding was a big part of the bankruptcy. A steady but slow market for reliable products is fine for a steady, slow company, but it can't support the high margin needs of a debt laden leveraged buyout owner.
@@xanfsnark I've seen buyouts go wrong so many times that it no longer surprises me. They buy the company, load it up with debt, fire a bunch of people, strip the assets, raid the pension, and walk away. They make pirates and mobsters look good in comparison.
Yeah I mean I don't own one yet and there are people being born every day who will own one. They shouldn't have gone out of buisness. They were probably put out so that the new owners can manufactur poorer quality ones
Also their other product, PYREX, the reputation was damaged because the name was licensed to other companies who made inferior tempered glass baking pans that couldn't take the heat.
In the late 1980s I bought a plastic watering can, back then a high quality watering can was made of metal. Apparently they put to much UV stabilizer in that watering can, after being mistreated outdoors for decades it is just now starting to fail.
Yes. Anyone thinking about manufacturing a specialty item should listen to Fran's advice.
Years ago I designed and knitted a nice shopping bag. I worked on the design through several iterations until I had it just right, and I made about a dozen or so. I gave several to some close friends and kept about four or five. At the grocery store all the clerks oohed and ahhed over them and said I should make a lot more and sell them. Yeah, well... what they didn't know is that it took about forty hours to knit one bag. No one in their right mind was going to pay me a week's salary for just one knitted shopping bag, no matter how wonderful it was.
Every major point Fran made is spot-on: the fraction of the consumer price that is the manufacturer's profit after all the layers of middle-men, and that a niche market can become saturated, especially if the product is long-lived. HOWEVER, I don't accept that this is an explanation for the troubles that Instant Products (the manufacturer of Pyrex and Instant Pot) is in.
Was it the supreme quality of their goods? NO. Pyrex has been around since 1915, and has been a constant in American kitchens. Every new generation needs them and buys them; whenever one is dropped or damaged, a replacement is purchased. They face little competition (mostly from Anchor-Hocking, which is not exactly a household name). Instant Pots will start to fail, although the fact that many of them are relegated to the back of the kitchen cabinet for half of the year (warm months, esp. summer) will prolong their lifetimes before they need to be replaced.
If you don't believe that a high-quality kitchen appliance can have a long sales life, look at the KitchenAid stand mixer. This product was introduced in 1918, and is still profitable today. In many circles, it is an aspirational product. Product development has not stood still. Today there are two major mechanical configurations (tilt-head and bowl-lift), a blinding array of colors, a truck-load of accessories that can be attached to extend the machines function from mixing batter to making sausage, pasta, or ice cream! They have persevered over strong competition, primarily from the Sunbeam Mixmaster. The quality of the product (nearly indestructible) no doubt HELPED them, especially during the depression.
What about the possibility of blaming it on the high build quality of the Instant Pot. Instant Pot was a craze boosted by social media, so it experienced a high initial growth. That has leveled off (think of the sales arc of the Pet Rock). Competitors, notably Ninja, have hit the market, too. While I don't think the market is saturated, the competition and consumer entrenchment during this time of headline inflation has no doubt put the brakes on sales.
Instant Pot, in their bankruptcy filing, points to the sudden jump in interest rates as the foundation of their difficulty.
Why should this make such a huge difference? It is because they are over-leveraged (i.e. they owe way too much money). How did things get that way? They were taken over by a private capital company, which didn't manage them well. We've seen this many times.
I built a special kind of LED lighting fixture for my Bridgeport milling machine which avoids the shadows on the work piece caused by traditional methods. I built it just for myself. Several people have commented that I should build these and sell them. I told them that it wouldn't be worth my trouble for many of the reasons that you stated.
I’ve had my instant pot for a decade and it’s still kickin! They made a great product!
A exception to this is Starrett machine tools. Extremely well built I bought a Starrett tap handle and I am sure it will outlast me. Also feels so nice in the hand. Also great gift for Dad or friends.
Speaking of long lasting, I've always wondered if Crockpot had that same problem. It's a product you buy when you first set up household and literally may last until you die. My parents both passed away in the last five years, and the same Crockpot they had still works and it has to be fifty years old, and the new ones are identical.
Depends on how much you use it. We killed two in 30 years.
Crockpot has changed the insert size and shape. Ive had older inserts that have cracked and tried to find OEM inserts as a replacement. They either change shape from round to oval, change size from 8 to 7 oz which forces you to purchase a newer lower quality device. Lesson to me was dont put frozen meat into the crockpot or it can crack.
Same with Tupperware.
@@dmk5n1 Put 2 or 3 long carrots or celery sticks under it to hold the frozen meat up and away from the ceramic base, and don't let it touch the walls either.
This VLOG/Frant deserves a second watch, because it was made too well 😎
Fran. Your pedals are art and gifts to humanity. Not a buisness
I have seen this in the company called Microwave Radio. Their products were so well made that they almost never broke down! Very few repairs and reduced sales!
Fran , your a breath of fresh air in a room of smoke .
I have spent much of my life fending off planned obsolesence, sometimes accidentally, like my 40 year old Wearever Air Popper, but most often deliberately like my expensive pots and pans set with aluminum bottom plates to distribute heat and my beloved 10 speed bicycle with a Reynolds 531 double butted frame. The irony is that at 3 score and 11 years, I am now faced with the ultimate planned obsolesence.
Ooooh! FranLab was at the top of my feed today! Niiiiiice! 😊
I can't find anything that confirms it, but my Dad always said that the Servel refrigerator company put themselves out of business by building gas refrigerators. These had no moving parts - no compressor to wear out. They'd last forever. They were in business from the 20s to the mid 50s. I suppose they might have done better nowdays when people change refrigerators based on styling. back then, they were just practical appliances. My parents have a perfectly good refrigerator, but it's not the "new style" so Mom wants a new one.
As a businessman I know the young folk like to talk about addressing the "Pain", and "Maximum purchase per transaction" and the value of "Consumables", however .....it never ceases to amaze me that those things they hand down and will to their children were those things in the category of "Made too Well". Don't complain because your business model does not reflect the level of care and quality you put into your Iconic products. In a declining market We sell the most flexible Airpreheater seal that contacts a virtual diamond sandpaper surface, and we have "made less" because we saturated a small market its been a hell of a ride.....no complaints.
Example of how being a legend doesnt always pay the bills.
My late parents Westinghouse fridge is still going after 50 years. They certainly don't make them like they used to :(
The 50-year-old fridge is probably using 2-3 times more electricity than a new one of the same size, but it is probably not a huge cost.
I inherited my mother's fridge that she inherited from her parents, early 80s Electrolux, has a nice deep green finish to it, only thing i did was sort out the door gasket in the lower corner, runs well and is still pretty quiet.
Great talk, I love these short videos.
Any company must diversify their products to stay in to stay in business. And what i build i would like to make them for ever. Never only make only one item.
I love that back-beat intro. Awesome.
You're absolutely right in that there's no money to be made in 'little guy' manufacturing anymore, just all the headaches associated with the whole process, blech! If you want to make a desirable bombproof product the only way you're ever gonna make decent profits is boutique manufacturing by commission-only (someone asking for it), at a very high price, and even then you can't really make a living off that so it's still technically just a glorified side hustle. And then you still manage to saturate your market. The only way to make a living off product manufacturing (and this is kinda a disgusting way to make money) is in consumables. And that's why 99.99% of everything you own is either outright disposable or highly engineered planned obsolescence
I'll add too that trying to design build and sell your own creations today is really a nasty lesson in schadenfreude when it comes to getting help (bank loans, quality employee help, credit lines for parts etc etc.. all of them really do enjoy watching you suffer through it)
I wish every company would rise and fall like this. I think it is the right thing to do.
You're partially right, in that creating a pedal company purely for investment is a bad idea. There's not enough profit, especially if you already have a career. But some kid working at Walmart, who loves to build pedals, could find his place in the game to scrape by and at least be happy with what he/ she does for a living. And that may be all the profit they need.
Fran, you are very lucky to be as intelligent and educated as you are. You're in a good position to do almost whatever you want. Others who aren't, may not look at building as "work" like you do.
Great data and great story...Fran Warmest Regards...
I have two HP15c, an HP11c, an HP 41CX, an HP45, a number of pioneer series as well. The voyagers were the most well made calculators in history. Amazingly they *still* make the 12C albeit with a completely new processor and retooled production. Apparently businesspeople either lose or destroy calculators more than engineers do :-D
It's not just Instant Pot (a local company, I'm proud to say) or Frantone. An uncle of mine had a thriving business making baby furniture; wooden cribs and such. The business thrived when people were having lots of children, and the products got reused to the point that they'd break and new ones had to be bought. Over time, folks had fewer children, passed on their baby furniture to friends and relatives, or sold it. This solidly-made wooden furniture stopped being profitable or sustainable, so he switched to final assembly of imported strollers and baby carriages. Those *would* break down and suffer wear and tear, but I gather they came with their own constraints and complaints, given the number of moving parts and quality-control issues. Finally, the business shifted to cushions and pads for garden/deck furniture - something which DOES wear out, is subject to style/fads, and is treated like a consummable, which baby cribs or strollers were not. There's not LESS care or quality-control than was implemented with baby cribs, but if your product doesn't wear out of break down, then how can you continue moving product?
Baby equipment has some advantages on sales as most of the designs from twenty years ago are illegal to sell now - they have been deemed unsafe following a number of fatalities.
@@allangibson8494 True enough, but revising designs and possibly fabrication methods as safety standards change is not a cheap affair. Better to make lawn furniture pillows.
Very true story about market saturation - as well as about building a consumer product that doesn't have built-in obsolescence. Many years ago I worked for a company that made the Crybaby wah-wah, as well as Vox and Moog equipment. We near saturated our market even back then. Today on eBay I noticed several "FranTone clone" Creampuff pedals for sale. I'm guessing they're likely not built to your OEM specs. I'm still actively involved in manufacturing in the US - but only in a niche market for hi-rel military and aviation products.
Instant pot is great. Glad I got 2. One retail and the other from the thrift store for like $40.
You're hard to find! Glad to be back, I have missed your content. Rock out with your DVM Out, Fran.
Sitting here checking your math with an HP -12C I bought in 1983 🤓
(and they still make them!)
Makes sense about Instapot. We bought one. Used it five times. It’s been sitting in the basement ever since. That was seven years ago.
An antiquated way of thinking is that to benefit from good quality a brand must have a wide range of products. A positive experience with one particular product encourages one to choose a different appliance from the same brand.
But in today's trend and hype driven markets many products become obsolete before they break down so good quality only increases manufacturing cost without adding any value.
Thanks!
The problem with Instant Pot is that it was bought up by Private Equity. It is a familiar playbook of Vulture Capitalists, buy a company load it up with debt in a rapid expansion to drive up the stock price. Sell off the the inflated stock, sell off the assets, take a bunch of management fees then dump the company into bankruptcy. Nothing to do with the product or anything you are talking about. See also Toys are Us, Bed Bath and Beyond etc.
Wow! This is the first I've heard of this. I love my Instant Pot and bought it and the Air Fryer lid just because they were so well built and had many functions. It's a shame this country has gone from quality to quantity, just like the people.
Even the ownership of Rolls-Royce and Ferrari changes hands from time to time because of the manufacturer's overall profit dilemma. The aim now is to develop a product and then license it or just outright sell it to a mass manufacturer seeking some street credit for having it their line. As market saturation approaches, the incentives of small profit margins they might actually generate by making and selling something of high quality will, with time, diminish, perhaps be tweaked to be cheaper to make, and then eventually be put on the block to be sold to the next nostalgic buyer if it doesn't take the company down before they can get out of it.
Large-scale products suffer from the built-too-well syndrome. For about 100 years, Ransome made welding positioners (for big items like tank cars). The products lasted so long that the "used" market eventually killed the "new" market.
AT 6:30, there's talk of 50% markup from retailers. For years, I thought it was unfair to charge so much above their buying price. However, the cost of keeping the lights on and shelves stocked is not zero. Some of the markup pays employees, covers theft, etc. Now, I'm told that an e-comm site can handle a lot of the retail problem.
And so this is why i love playing with my Hallicrafters HT-37 and SX-111.... built to last
Yeah Fran, I used to do electronics repair. Can completely relate. I miss those days 😢
Despite me being only 19, I really quickly realized I never want to manufacture a product. Unless you charge crazy high prices a piece, there is no money to be made as an individual. Also you spend all your time working on stuff around your products instead of actually working on a product which for me really takes the fun out of it.
"Ah… It's a profit deal." Navin R. Johnson
I think nowadays the key is to sell directly to the public. An example would be Thalia capos, there are lots of Capos you can buy but there's is uniquely different and they sell directly to the public.
You're awesome!
I need to label a box in my garage "ROBOT STUFF". Just because.
I read a Wallstreet Journal article about the Croc shoe company. The company was having trouble. They blamed their products. They said the shoes didn't wear out. If you make something that doesn't wear out, you go out of business. They got the facts wrong, but heck, what the heck do I know. Just everything I own wears out.
I grew up in New Zealand and later moved to Australia, living in a rural "almost outback" region for almost 20 years. I have simply "lived" in Jandals (aka Flipflops aka Thongs) my entire life. Unless required to wear Steel Capped Safety Shoes/Boots in a work environment or wearing some type of more formal Black shoes/Heels as a formal dress outfit for going out. At all other times, I wore Jandals/flipflops/thongs. Inside the house, as if they were my "slippers" and outside the house they were my outdoor footwear for 99% of the time. It was while living in Australia that one day in the late 1990's or early 2000's, I came across those rubbery plastic shoes now known as "Crocs" (not necessarily a brand name) for the first time. I think I first came across them in a Hardware store along with the rubber gumboots, being sold in the gardening department. I thought they looked a good idea as giving some measure of foot protection, when wearing rubber gumboots or steel capped workboots was NOT required, but I wanted MORE than the almost bare feet of Jandals/flipflops/thongs.. Since that time "crocs" have become my outside footwear for 99% of the time, whenever Steelcaps or Formal shoes are NOT required. I can assure you I wear them out over and over again. My current pair have worn down to thin soles and will need replacing very soon. I'm not an exercise junky, but try to walk several kilometres most days of the week, for exercise.
Chase Bliss went direct to consumer for that reason, no money to be made after the big discount for retailers. I think they're a special case though cuz their pedals are super popular and have some unique wizard magic. I hope it works out for em!
Next pedal idea... InstaFran.
Thanks for cuttin us dry on the retail chain. I've been a grunt for some big retail electronics store, and having dealt with some Guitar Center fiascos, I can't imagine doing what you do, all that work for just $10 profit per unit.
That's when they say it's a numbers game... but then the flood kicks in, especially with bootleg cheap knockoffs and components.
I'd love to get my hands on one of your pedals. I'd be floored! Pun intended.
Timely advice. I have a small side business making items and have reached that same saturation point. They rarely wear out, nearly everyone in this circle of users owns one now, I have settled on just a few material choices that work and hold up so not real chance for product expansion and not many new users/customers entering the fold now days. At least I only sold direct so could maximize my profits rather than sharing with resellers. Luckily being retired my needs are less and so is my desire to stand in a workshop all day so the declining sales go hand in hand with my declining time to work rather than enjoy retirement.
Chase Bliss has changed their business model to direct sales, which is probably the only way to combat the said issues you brought up. Anywho, hopeful that all your creativity to flourishes and brings continued success in the future!
This is helpful to hear, thank you. The model I am interested in testing is batch manufacturing development electronics for niche applications like 4D home theaters where the only buyers would be developers taking an online course. Meaning you couldn't buy the product unless taking the online course.
The the online course revenue would subsidize the small hand made batch manufacturing margin. No retailers or distributors. Just small direct online orders. Also limit the amount of e-waste by likely only selling to engaged users as opposed to excited customers who buy without the desire to be a developer and let devices simply collect dust until thrown away one day.
Having worked in consumer electronics all my life as a repair tech i have seen many examples of badly designed
products that were dare i say designed to fail so they could sell spares for them, but not that many over engineered
products that made you appreciate the thought that had gone into them so that they lasted a lifetime.
Sad to hear of another company failing that made an item too well for a limited market.
Manufacturing is full of pitfalls, if your product fails under warranty the customer and retailer expect you to cover
the repair costs, but if you design it not to fail you will only sell as many as the market will stand, then what do you do?
If any manufacturer is not developing new products as demand changes then they will go out of business.
Fran, have you explored the Military Pedal Effects market ? 😂
I used to tech at HP and I loved that H&P intentionally kept military sales below X % to help protect their workers from boom/bust cycles associated with mil contracts.
Our equipt went into AWACS planes so yeah, big buck price tags at that time under Ronnie RayGun
Those old Roland pedals still work. Good too.
What a world, what a world!
I do like my Instantpot for it's utility. I have had to repair a few sensor errors and it still occasionally gets them inexplicably, but I prefer it to be paranoid rather than explody, so tolerate it.
At the opposite end of the market, look at smartphone charge cords. No other cord has any problem with bendability or connectivity. You buy a TV cord, it lasts forever. You can wrap a vacuum cleaner cord thousands of times, and they last. Every product I have that plugs into a wall has no issue with cords coming apart. Except for smartphones. Many last about 3 or 4 months and they fray, stop working, start having connectivity issues killing your battery. So what do they do? Make them very cheap to keep you buying them year after year after year. Why make one charge cord last forever when you can make them last 3 months and get people to buy multiples over and over?
Yeah, about that vacuum cord - it is made especially flexible, with winding/unwinding in mind.
I've been using this same USB-C cord with my phone for 5 years now, am I doing something wrong?
Never did the insta pot thing. Where/how do I get a good one today?
What "Retailers"? Radio Shack!? Fran it's 2023!!! You could ship your pedals to anywhere in the world directly from your shop. It's called Direct to Consumer. All the Sharks on Shak Tank are drooling over any company that works this way and always warn against going Retail. But it's 2023... You don't Have to!
Good morning Fran, glad to see your video come up as recommended.
Algorithm is working, first heard of your channel when Louis Rossman covered a video of yours maybe about a few weeks ago ?
Thank you and happy fourth of July.
This was fascinating! Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom. This got me thinking: 1) Given the difficulty of making a profit, why are we seeing more pedal manufacturers than ever before? 2) Once you saturate the market with a product, why not create a new product to sell to your existing customers? 3) Would selling direct to consumer solve the margin issue?
you should get one. But we only use it for rice and sometimes black beans. Rice takes maybe 10 min.
These days, it is possible, to a certain extent, to cut out the retail and distributor middlemen by setting up your own web shop. Of course, then, you have to do the work they did yourself instead (shipping, returns, etc.). But to suck up their margins could make it very much worth it.
Today one can sell direct. Bought my last monitor that way.
You produced a super high quality device that is appreciated by the people you were making it for, and that makes you a success in my mind. It didn't make you rich, and maybe if that was your goal, you might have succeeded selling crappy quality stuff, but would you be happier with that result?
You make very good points Fran. Back when I was in university and wanted one of your pedals but didn't have the means I missed out on the opportunity. Sad to say I can't get one of your pedals nowadays. I'd much rather buy one of your originals than a Big Muff for example.
It makes me wonder, if sold direct to consumer, what your retail prices would have to be to make a worthwhile profit. I imagine you've already thought this through and deemed it not worthwhile, but it would be interesting to know your thoughts on direct to consumer sales.
Quality = Bankruptcy... That is very sad. I really appreciate good quality products, and detest built in obsolescence (designed to fail).
Fran, would it not be possible to license your designs/specs/brand to a hardware company as a partnership? might be an option?
I trust Fran's opinion!
And at the same time I wonder what Hans Summers is doing that makes his hamradio business work (qrplabs) so well. He is doing kits and completed products, while having a vivid mail group around him.
Both Fran and Hans are hard working individuals with a passion, so the secret must be more complex than that. Hans, nowadays living in Turkey, is a remarkable difference, but that doesnt explain why he didnt lose it from the ali-whatever-cheapo-combobulations!
There seems to be a fine line existing where it can be made to work?
I want Fran to interview a space alien.
Fran... You are a very bright and intelligent person. The key for you would be to find something you can make where there is a big demand. Or, find a way way to do some type of service work where there would be a high demand. I realize this is easy to say. I also realize servicing electronics today is a lot more difficult than it was a few decades ago.
Fran, you just nailed what happened to the U.S. manufacturing base, the CHEEP CHINESE CRAP, manufactures that wanted to maximize profits over quality and reliability along with consumers that settle for almost as good for a CHEEP PRICE!!!
You want well made. I've had just 2 Sharp microwaves since the 70's.
what are frantone pedals ?
Vehicle makers like Ford have this completely sussed out, when a component wears out it causes multiple fault propagation of others plus most important of all the mechanic repairing the visible fault adds more latent faults with each intervention.
Cases like this, you need to keep some high end, made domestically, for reputation, then add a consumer grade that you design but have manufactured in Vietnam for the masses.
Sounds like the optimal way to run a business would be make something that'll last a lifetime, saturate the market, and then move onto a new market to do it again. The goal should be to keep moving and leave a trail of saturated markets behind you wherever you go, like a goddess who has flowers spring up wherever she walks.
I suppose it wouldn't be difficult to attract buyers to that new item as the previous ones would be made with an exceptional quality, we really need to go back to demanding better quality and serviceability of our products, i became so fed up with the whole thing that i only seek vintage items on the used market for things that i need, i have major trust issues in whatever is being made today.
Franche...get your guitar out and jam for us...We love it yoyr so talented.
Just replaced my $20 disposable coffee maker with a new $20 disposable coffee maker. I consider it my yearly coffee brewing fee.
You know, I don't think I have ever seen your Frantones in action live or on your channel.
1000 videos and you've seen 'em all!
@@FranLab :) I have seen a lot of them!
It depends what you produce. Some products can not be build to fail when desired.
Lathes and milling machines (industrial grade) when bulid precise and correct can last several decades. Other machines like presses can last hundred years with only basic maintenance.
My HP410B was built when my father was young and still works as designed. They could not saturate market beacuse market was hudge and they had only 4 or 5 competitors world wide, plus they had military contracts for Mil version.
HP had favourable time frame for their expansion, same like some European manufacturers, R&S for example.
How to make anvil that would fail in 5-10 years? That would be tricky.
Sad Because I grew up with Corningware and pyrex and Corelle I have items that are passed down !
True
Made to last is what people want. Made to be replaced, often, is what manufacturers want.
This is a consumer driven notion. Unfortunately, consumers wanted affordable as their first choice. This all seemed to start with the auto industry when the Japanese first started selling cars in the U.S. and they were much cheaper than American cars. They were also smaller and the initial quality was not great, but it got better quickly. Then the VW Bug came on board and really set the car market to shift gears. Once many things started being made in the far east by cheap labor, the game was about to be lost for the American wage earner. Now we are at the point where a country that stops making things puts itself in great peril, and we are at the whims of shipping and transport.