This Unused MGSV Ending was going to be much different than what we got, and would have raised so much more questions than answers! But which Ending do you guys prefer? 🤔 SUBSCRIBE to our Channel to stay updated with our upcoming METAL GEAR SOLID content! 🎬🐍 Thank You, Soldiers! 👍 - Python & Selkan
That would’ve been a crazy ending for sure to see Huey fighting people and saving venom. But on a same but different topic, now that we have vol. 1 coming out in October, what if the next volume included MGSV and is release on September 1st 2024? And there is some secret to it after being in a “coma” for 9 years?
Some people lived the unused ending. And irl lost their minds. This one is good, but the one we got jumps the fourth wall and breaks it into pieces in an Augmented Reality game knife if way. Like Perplex City. And that is an absolute feat of brilliance.
All of Foxhound was founded by the real Big Boss, not Venom Snake. The reason for knowing this is because as a unit, both Grey Fox and Solid Snake infiltrated Outer Heaven under the real Big Boss’s orders under the banner of Foxhound, and in Zanzibar, Grey Fox was loyal to the real Big Boss. Grey Fox knew who the real Big Boss was after Snake’s confrontation of Venom, which is why he was still loyal to the real Big Boss. Venom had no access to Foxhound because the Big Boss secret was meant to be hidden to the world. It was also shown at the end of MGSV that Big Boss had to change his identity, which is possibly why Sniper Wolf knew Big Boss as Saladin. Plus after MGSV, I think it’s safe to assume that Ocelot saw it best fit to leave Diamond Dogs with Eli and Mantis somewhere in between 1974 and 1995 to join Foxhound. Eli and Mantis were problematic and were a liability with Diamond Dogs. Ocelot and Eli also had nothing to do with the original MG games, otherwise he would have appeared in the Outer Heaven incident and with that in mind, Octopus, Mantis, Raven, and Wolf never would of gone with Ocelot and Liquid’s plans in 2005 unless they established a relationship. I know this isn’t technically canon but some elements are, but Big Boss and Roy Campbell founded Foxhound in 1971, and I think it’s safe to say that the hypno therapy Venom Snake went through had no knowledge of Foxhound because Zero and Ocelot had no knowledge of the establishment happening at the time. Once the Patriots AI took full control, they found out about the two Big Boss’s and the time to take action started with the Outer Heaven incident. Zero wanted to protect the real Big Boss but the Patriots AI took it upon itself to Eliminate the Big Boss threat. Zero never wanted this but once he became ill, that’s when the Patriots AI took control. When Big Boss woke up from his Coma, he went back to Foxhound and resumed control which was already established 13 years ago. Miller only joined because he was loyal to the real Big Boss, and when Zanzibar happened, he wanted to eliminate Both Big Boss’s due to manipulation and wanted to train Solid Snake to take down Big Boss. I’m saying all of this because it’s easy as a hardcore fan to put all of this information together and it’s worth talking about and giving knowledge to people, especially because we’re never going to get an MGS6 that explains all of this.
It doesn't help that this one was kinda connected to the cancelled Silent HIlls. To this day I am still disappointed that Lisa Decoy from the dev video was not in the actual game. It would be insane to scare the soldiers with that ghost lady.
The first casualty of war is truth. I believe Kojima's overarching message from the MGS saga is summed up by Snake "we are not tools of the government". I guess Kojima's is saying, forge your own path in life and don't let the sins of the father dictate your path in life. The cycle of war continues because every old men start wars and young men fight them. MGS taught me to learn from the past and with that knowledge don't repeat the previous generations mistakes. Thanks Python. Never Game Over.
Is it possible that this ending would have revealed that Huey's disability was an elaborate ruse from the start? A massive callback to Peter Stillman. His lack of combat experience also being fabricated could be seen as a throwback to Raiden, who originally claimed/believed to only have VR training, before the reveal of his past as a child soldier.
I love the Metal Gear series and always will, but MGSV always makes me bitter as a game that could have made so much sense and give me closure, for a series I've been invested in for years. I honestly felt like Peace Walker answered my questions about the canon, MGSV just introduced a bunch of cool what if scenarios such as volgin coming back and hallucinations, only to leave us with an ambiguous story.
True words. Unfortunately it's part of the game's theme of "Phantom Pain" (even stated in the game's script). The only issue is that many people fail to realize the concept, and they interpret everything the game shows them as "facts", even though they've been playing as somebody who wasn't who they thought. - P&S
I dont think the "I don't like imitations" line from Peacewalker was necessarily setting up the MGSV twist. Remember, at that point the series has already had 3 literal clones of Big Boss, 4 attempts at copying Outer Heaven, a secondary protagonist that the community had decided couldn't live up to Snake, 2 Cyborg Ninja copycats, a whole game of bosses poorly aping their Foxhound namesakes, and a literal Metal Gear sequel that Kojima only even learned existed when it was already about to ship. Even the themes of Peacewalker are largely about how AI is a poor replacement for human soldiers, and how Big Boss feels himself a poor imitation of The Boss. This is less foreshadowing, and more staying on theme.
Its not unfinished stop with this narrative the game is complete nothing is missing that wasn't thrown out way early in development one cut missions which was cut from the game itself and then almost turned into dlc before being cancelled again doesnt mean the game is unfinished
Actually makes a lot of sense. Some of Ishmael's mannerisms feel more like something Huey would do compared to Big Boss. Like jumping on Quiet instead of proper CQC.
I think we are never going to know to the full extent how much content/ideas were cut/scrapped due to Konami wanting Kojima out and wanting a product made. I feel a some of the dialogue in the cassette tapes was supposed to be cut scenes, but due to the cost of using the fox engine and the huge amount of money already used in the games budget, some cutscenes were scrapped, chapters and missions cut and just the game map feels like there should be more to do.
The Truth tapes were obviously meant to be cutscenes. The one where Skullface poisons Zero is hilarious because there's literally a sound effect in it that's pretty much a "slowmo camera" moment.
@@davidstinger1134 it sucks because I would loved to see the fox engine version of a older Zero. The fact we didn't get to physically see him was a huge crime.
Ishmael was a hallucination, Venom and Boss were the same person until the wreck that brought Ocelot into play. Quiet threw the knife at Venom when he tried to attack in a weakened state. The ending where we see Boss on the motorcycle was how we, the player viewed him. Ishmael was never real, but an amalgamation of Boss and Venom, their personalities going their separate ways after the wreck. It’s a stretch, but makes more sense than some of the plot elements displayed.
@@iroquoisfox1579 Because BB is trying to hide who he really is/make himself seem like a hallucination iun venom mind so venom doesnt start digging into what actually was going on
If we ever get true answers to this game one day, it be amazing. But still Hideo is teasing MGS 5 and peace walker in posts. History repeats itself. Great job on the video guys
What If ishmael isnt big boss or a figment of imagination... whatbif hes a kojima self insert. He hid in the promo of mgsv as ishmael and you save him in a side mission. Yeah its thin but think on it. even the end when ocelot meets "big boss at the van" then sends him on his way. Well what if he was actually saving kojima,after saving you.
I swear, just walking around the open world carrying out generic ops and resource hunting feels like somethings happened, or something is about to happen, like every footsoldier and Diamond Dog soldier is just waiting for something to happen. A perpetual state of waiting for an in game event to take place.
WHAT CASSETTE IS THAT??? "The moment any truth is passed on it starts turning into fiction..." I need to hear it fully. Please n thanks. Love your work
Sir your videos have helped ease my personal phantom pain, from Source Code to 1984, you’ve put the pieces together for those of us who can’t seem to move on. Thank you
Perhaps the real Ishmaels are the friends we make along the way! xD On a more serious note though, at some point in time I thought Ishmael had the bandages around his head because he had swapped faces with someone else (most likely with Venom Snake)
Based on this, it seems as though they swapped Huey with Big Boss and Big Boss with Venom. I've long thought that MGSV was meant to have a 5-act structure, and that the Diamond Dogs you build up in one half would be taken down by Big Boss when you swapped places halfway through - a final base infiltration where you take on Venom as Big Boss, foreshadowing the future battles between Snake and Liquid, and with Venom visually distinct as a consequence of the bone fragment sticking out of his head. After all, we know that Big Boss goes on to work with Foxhound and infiltrate the US, so, to me, it would make sense. We also know that idea of clones, DNA, memes, legacy, duality plays a huge role in the whole Metal Gear cannon. So swapping Huey out for Big Boss would make a lot of sense: him, Ocelot and EVA are the only characters who are truly in the Ishmael role at that point in the story. They're characters whose allegiance isn't to Diamond Dogs or to America/Cipher (really Zero/The Patriots). And for the whole Moby Dick comparison to work, Venom and Diamond Dogs need to go down and we know they do, too. By the time of Outer Heaven, neither Venom nor Diamond Dogs exist in a narrative sense prior to that final twist that has the air of a rushed ending thought up by Konami when they stopped Kojima working on MGSV. This also makes a huge amount of narrative and thematic sense, too. If we look at Kojima's past MGS games, they all usually operate with a prologue, five acts and epilogue. They function as an initial incident which sets up the events of the story. Part one establishes setting and characters. Part two deepens the mystery and veers off into characters that don't feature significantly in the ending. Part three is all journey and complications. Part four is where the reveals and twists start to come. Part five is the massive showdown. Then the epilogue recontextualises everything. In MGSV, we only really getting setting and characters and an initial mystery in the grander Metal Gear narrative - both 'Ground Zeroes' and the entirety of 'The Phantom Pain' only really set-up the true antagonists of the series: Zero and The Patriots AIs. They are the true Moby Dick that they are chasing, but, in order to do so, Venom Snake and Diamond Dogs need to take a long hard look at themselves to set out on this journey - by facing they're mirror opposites, the similarly identity-less Skullface, a man so lacking an identity he has no face, and his Cipher faction, another rogue military organisation like Diamond Dogs. They see the warning signs but rush on regardless. Chapter Two then starts building on this and is where the game ends. We have the mystery of a mole in DDs, with fingers not just pointed at Huey but also at Miller by Codetalker. We know for a fact that Ocelot isn't being honest given how close he has previously been to Zero, Big Boss and EVA, too. We get the beginnings of learning about Les Enfants Terrible. The whole Paz storyline is the first hint that Venom is going insane, much like Ahab, and the cut Kingdom of the Flies shows that Venom would become so dangerous that he shoots Liquid - who never actually meets Big Boss, as he is supposed to. Where it ends doesn't remotely line-up with what we learn in Metal Gear Solid, either. How does Miller get in Foxhound's good graces enough that Liquid can masquerade as him helping Solid Snake? How does Ocelot end up working with Liquid when that kid has no reason to trust him at all? Then there are the obvious characters missing from the story: the African setting cannot have been thought up without a plan to introduce Grey Fox; the Soviet antagonism was obviously setting up Gurlukovich and his reputation as the Russian Big Boss, another mirror image for Snake/Venom to face; and where the heck is EVA, or many of the other survivors of Snake Eater and Peace Walker? What about the sequence at the Normandy beach landings hinted at in tweets by Kojima? Then there is the hint that with so much cloning going on, Paz reappearing and her story having such a weird and poorly developed ending, and Paz and The Boss AI both having names hinted at as being "peace", I always thought it obvious that Les Enfants Terrible started with cloning The Boss to create Paz, not that she was just some random child soldier. For me, this indicates that the game was more likely to go something like this: Skullface attacks Diamond Dogs; Venom is then put in place to go after Skullface whilst Big Boss is brought in to Cipher/America to again turn him into their poster child; act two sees Venom Snake start to slip into madness via hallucinations and the general weirdness that surrounds him; chapter three would then see Big Boss making peace with Cipher/America to take them down from within whilst Venom declared all out war (war being peace in Orwell's 1984, and the obvious implication of that title card, as well as Peace being a reference to both Paz and The Boss) and become an absolute monster in pursuit of his revenge; this would leave part four for the switch back to Big Boss either at the start or end, where the finale would then see Big Boss "taking down" Diamond Dogs in a base infiltration more or less the same as the multiplayer (where you invade the bases others have built up over the course of their games, the kind of meta twist Kojima loves, and a potential game changer as you would create the final level, essentially), before Big Boss stops Venom Snake; the epilogue would then reveal that Big Boss actually saved many of the soldiers to form Outer Heaven with the purpose of stopping Zero/The Patriots AIs, recontextualising his role in the series as a whole as he learns that his "world that will always have a place for soldiers" was as flawed an ideal as The Boss's world peace and Zero's extreme control to keep people safe. Then, we find out that they planned out the events of Metal Gear through to Metal Gear Solid 4 as a way to ultimately free everyone to make their own choices, with Big Boss, like The Boss, sacrificing himself for his true mission. The ultimate tragic hero. Thus, Ahab, aka Venom Snake, descends into madness and sinks beneath the ocean at the end, whilst Ishmael, aka Big Boss, learns the folly of chasing whales like a madman and decides to wait for the right moment to strike... like a Snake. But, the flaw in this is simply one I stated earlier: we don't know what was going to happen as we only just got to the point in the story where things kick off when the game was ended prematurely by Konami firing Kojima. Certainly, we didn't get the full game. So we can't know where it was heading or where the story would have truly ended up as a result. I just think that given what we do know, and the various gameplay elements we did see, that this is likely where the story would have ended up.
Well according to one of the games solid fights venom the game could have continued after skull face. Liquid goes on to build his base and later snake gets put into stopping him with the end of metal gear five we play as young snake beating venom which ties all the games together.
Obviously Ishmael is Chico, who survived the helicopter crash and has grown up during the time that venom is in his coma. This gives him literal years to perfect his big boss impression, fooling everyone into believing BB was the one who saved venom.
I think it could have worked, using parasite therapy. Seeing Huey try to save Venom to make up for creating Sahelanthropus under duress would have been cool and at least align with the character development in Peace Walker... Huey in MGSV felt nothing like the character in Peace Walker..
So. I've always had the unpopular opinion that the body double was a red herring. The truth mission is a lie. I believe that the player character is Big Boss and he is being brainwashed/has been brainwashed. All the hypnosis isn't to train a new Big Boss but the repatriation of Snake after the events of Peace Walker and msg3. This is the best explanation for the contradictions we see, in my opinion. Consider the often brought up comments from Kaz about Paz in Ground Zero. To delve deeper, it's often remarked that skull face represents the boss's jungian shadow. While this isn't incorrect, he also represents everything the Boss had come to hate about the government and himself and would be the parts of himself that would have to be killed for him to be a useful tool. Ishmael was his better half in this analogy. He became someone else in that hospital and the scene of Big Boss riding off into the sunset was all in his head. That was the ideal big boss being sent away by ocelot.
@@Loreweavver the only answers made no sense… he couldn’t have survived the outer heaven explosion while being injured by snake couldn’t have been a different body double seeing as the big boss we fought believed he was big boss and had the same skills as big boss (as mentioned by snake) people used loose explanations and theories to explain it before MGSV. We now have a definitive answer.
@@machupich there is nothing definitive about the interpretation about the information given in MGSV. The truth is a lie. Everything anyone has said about the ending is pure speculation and open to interpretation or we wouldn't be having this conversation. You interpret it one way, I interpret it another, while every other player interprets it their own way. The existence of two big boss had already been explained and then retconned. You just have a preference to the retcon.
When a concept can't come into fruition due to MGS standards, then you know it's REALLY wild! 😆 I think if Kojima went with his original concept, he may have worked it out to where it makes sense, but I don't think it would have been as great to what we actually got. What we have just seems to flow better (Even though I feel it's just not yet complete). As great as Hideo Kojima is, it is always good to have a supportive team to help in pulling the reins just a bit before the director gets too carried away!
And to think they went on the record saying that Peace was the correct way they wanted the game to end. It does lead up into the ending of MSX's MGS2 story but it still felt empty.
Im happy Ive experienced this game series in my life time because it compliments many movies in one art piece/series . I know it will never be a second Snake or Big Boss. This already took 30 yrs to build a legend.
Oh man... I've played the game on all five systems, I've read the books (Moby Dick, Lord of the Flies, 1984, The Bible) and I wasn't even close to what I saw in this video . Sometimes I made too much one-to-one comparisons, sometimes I thought too much on the meta level and missed too many details. A very well done video, even if I had to turn on the subtitles because I couldn't understand everything acoustically. I think that Kojima couldn't implement some of what he had planned and had to make compromises with a lot of half-finished things like the Lord of the Flies mission in order not to leave the game with a completely open ending. But Big Boss is sort of like O'Brien in 1984 when he told Winston he might not recognize him next time he met him because he could change his whole appearance, which would explain Ishmael having both eyes. However, O'Brien belongs to the Inner Party, so this thesis does not work. Emmerich's role as Ishmael is also difficult, since he fits well as an observer and Ismael strays from the hunt for the white whale and has to be convinced by Ahab, but nobody leaves the Pequod alive, but Emmerich is sent away. Then again he dies by drowning as it says in MGS2, which again equates his end with that of Ishmael.
While I'm looking forward to the larger vids you're cooking up, vids like this with genuinely intriguing BTS trivia and the implications they would have had on the story are a great way to fill the content gap. 😁👌 That said, I've got a large project I've been working on for the past year that's just about to drop! Kojima's Deception is dead, but I'm still in a dream. I hope you two check it out and enjoy when it drops! *"It is happening again..."* 👀😱
The one thing I don’t get about Venom Snake is if he’s just a medic and he becomes ass good as Big Boss as a soldier etc, them surely that kind of makes Big Boss just look like you’re average soldier if anyone can become as good as him.. like he’s just a medic but becomes an equal to Big Boss.. can someone explain this? Just makes Big Boss look average if anyone can be as good as him. He’s supposed to be a legend on the battlefield
I think medic was one of Big Boss's best (if not the best) soldiers. the Medic was not the average soldiers. But I think the point was that the legend is bigger than Big Boss himself
I was just playing Phantom Pain on PS3 for a little bit (hadn’t finished it by the way, though I watched tons of spoilers and theory vids, like the ones on this channel. I think the ending did more than what Kojima planned for. Left us filling in the gaps, like a conspiracy theory. This wouldn’t work with most games, and you’d think this wouldn’t fly in Metal Gear. But it’s that whole thing with the brain damage, really turns up the question, what’s real to Venom Snake, he’s seeing it, but is it really there? Or about how he’s the puppet being told what he saw wasn’t what it was and we are revealed to truth. Epic way to end a series, keep you wanting more
8:11 to answer this question. I believe "Ismael's" role would have been completely different to what we got in MGS:V perhaps even the whole hospital introduction wasn't even a thing during the time Kojima had plans of making Huey Ismael.
Mgs 4 guns of the patriots tells the story uniquely... The patriots being the founding fathers... gotta go back to the 1700s and great awakening to understand how the constitution was made and created...
I've played through all of the MG games from the first two on the NES. I have been able to get S+ rankings on almost all of the V missions and I prefer the ending that was in the game. It makes the story even deeper and better connected to the first games. I really just wish he had been able to finish it as he wanted and wasn't shunned before the end. It's my favorite game ever and a masterpiece.
As mysterious as MSGV is. I think how it played out was brilliant as is. Huey “being” Ishmael would of been a complete mind bender and wouldn’t make any sense. Just very sad that we didn’t get to see the very last of MSGV and what events took place after.
Ah... the wishes i had for this story are much much far off what most people would have. I personally would have wished nothing would have gone wrong. An alternate ending, where huey is not a traitor, where the MSF spirit lived on, big boss remained big boss, the child soldiers didn't escape and all lived peacefully ever after T^T. Because yes, i'd trylly fallen in love with the whole MSF physiologie. Their own little country admist the ocean, no borders, living off of helping countries in wars and what their spoils of wars.
I think a better twist would be Ishmael was really Frank Hunter which would explain the bandages since around that same time Frank had his ears and nose lopped off. And we would have gotten him in another game which is very overdue.
If they ever remaster or remake MGSV it would be really cool if they got David Hayter to record the voice of Snake in the hospital scenes, putting on a fake voice to hide his identity, but then leave Venom Snake voiced as Keifer Sutherland. Then that would explain why Venom sounds different the whole game, because he's not Snake.
Actually could see it working, if at the first time you play the opening, it's Huey saving Snake. Then at the truth mission, you find out it was part of Huey's telling/lying of events, possibly implied that he told the public/history books that he was the one who "saved big boss" but was then betrayed by them because they're 'black hearted mercenaries'. Kind of like his revenge being to paint himself as the good guy.
Assuming it's not a hallucination, the Huey/Ishmael twist could work if it was revealed the real reason he could walk and even fight (safely but poorly) was an early version of Gray Fox's exoskeleton tech. The tech lineage from Zadornov's (seemingly unique at the time) hand to Grey Fox's exoskeleton is uncharacteristically blurry for MGS. It's also suspect that Para-medic could suddenly become a god-tier roboticist and invent it, all while doing the genome therapy experiments on Fox, all in less than 3 years, even if she outsourced manufacturing. Madnar probably isn't an option either, timeline-wise. Huey has the robotics skills and direct personal incentive to invent the basis for it, but not the advanced medical knowledge, skills, and industry connections. There's plenty to work with there for a subplot which explains that The Patriots already had access to a predecessor tech that she studied much earlier on, which allowed her to invent Gray Fox's exoskeleton in such a small amount of time alongside other projects. Maybe tie that in to whatever's going on with the mystery of her death date, and "Dr. Naomi Hunter."
It's a shame they never finished mission 51 to many plot points they never finished or addressed. Would have been cool to end it with solid killing venom like in the last day of outer heaven fan clip.
Thats the ending i wanted aswell would have been cool having your base under attack and your top guys dying 1by1 and at the end you see young solid who wastes you
You're exacly right no matter what certain fans think the plot of liquid was never finished and chapter 2 just abruptly ends. Alot of the plot is hidden in tapes that really should have been cutscenes konami had a hand in cutting down the development of the game due to costs. @@ghostwhencodghosts9114
that is a really tough question. and i have honestly no idea, how it would work with huey as ishmael other than he would be only a narrator. the whole opening sequence would have to be changed. if i could ever ask kojima a question about his games (not about the konami fallout, or if mgsv was finished) it would be defo THIS question.
Its very likely that both Konami and Kojima considered the chapter 3 ending unachievable through normal means. This is because from a statistical perspective, you can only invade a base once a day, but in that same day a single player can produce 16 nukes. So at maximum output, a hypothetical nuclear faction would vastly outpace a hypothetical disarment faction 16:1. Ontop of this, the way that FOB online accounts are handled is such that those who are in possesion of nukes retain them on their FOB, but should those accounts stay offline for long enough, their FOBs are delisted from the invasion menu making them inaccessible for the disarment faction. In a manner of speaking, the way in which chapter 3's cutscene was triggered on PS3 resembles the plot of the MGS series as a whole if you read up on it. An individual springs up with the goal of achieving world peace, they form a group to attain this lofty goal, but after realizing the rigged nature of the systems they operate under, and the insurmountable odds that are stacked against them, they turn to a technology (hacks/bots) to take control of those systems in order to stop the development of weapons of mass destruction. But in resorting to this technology, the faction becomes corrupted, their ranks split up, their message twisted into a bastardization of the one presented by their founder. This is not disimilar to the boss, whose will was reinterpreted by the philosophers until disagreement over it led to infighting between them causing them to fracture, which eventually spiraled humanity into a dystopian series of unending wars that was perpretuated by a technology that had long since been out of the control of any one sect or group. To be honest I cant tell what Kojima wanted to say with his self-proclaimed social experiment. Metal gear has always been about nuclear weapons since the very start, but the manner in which this multiplayer mechanic was handled was such that it was designed to be virtually impossible to achieve through legitimate means. The only way for the disarment faction to prevail is to cheat through the use of hacks, bots, scripts.etc One possible interpretation is that Kojima wanted to illustrate how idealistic and unrealistic the dream of nuclear disarment really is. But this would be inconsistant with his own philosophy in support of nuclear disarment, a philosophy that is presented across the other MGS games. On the other hand, maybe what he is trying to convey, is that despite the impossibility of nuclear disarment, perhaps it is worth striving for nontheless. It is certainly strange that the methods used to arrive at this cutscene resemble the story of MGS, and I cant help but wonder if this was intentional. Perhaps im giving Kojima too much credit here, and maybe its just a happy accident or willfull interpretation on my part. One way or another we can certainly conclude as many others have that MGS5 was an unfinished game that was supposed to have a third chapter. If the game were fully complete, we could imagine a game where after chapter 2, players would need to achieve global nuclear disarment, before continuing the story and unlocking new episodes. Perhaps this is what Kojima meant when he stated in an interview that he MGSV to "do something that can only be achieved by video games". But as we all know, since as early as MGS2, Kojima has been infamous for his unfulfilled ambition with tens if not hundreds of ideas being scrapped along the way. Im almost certain that chapter 3 was among those ideas, it seems far more likely that the only reason Konami opted to 'verify' the disarments on twitter was to stoke the flames and keep player engagement up. They most likely sought to string players along by giving them reason to believe that chapter 3 was still in development or that it existed as an update that was to be released when global nuclear disarment was legitimately achieved. The question is whether this was expected by Kojima, did he intend for Konami to rig the game? Did he himself rig it? Were players expected to learn that chapter 3 was unachievable through legitimate means? If so this would make chapter 3 the ultimate summary of what the MGS series is all about, if not this would feel like salt in the wound to the players hoping that MGS5 would someday realize its full potential. It would simultaniously villainize Konami even more so than they already have been by the broader gaming community. I hope that one day, Kojima will spill the beans and tell us what MGS5 was meant to be, what this social experiment was supposed to say, how it was supposed to end.
What if the bandages represent that young psycho mantis was causing him to hallucinate too? In the boss fight in MGS1 the statues had bandages. Maybe young Psycho Mantis could do that while being with Volgin/man on fire. I think that points to him in a way.
Not only are you my prime source all things MGS, but you are truly one of a kind. Your presentation and delivery are just on point as far as deconstructing a game and analyzing it piece by piece. You are the best game dissector on RUclips.
Ismael is huey emmerich? nahh its impossible in history of huey hes born with birth defect thats why hes using exoskeleton plus hes a scientist wanting to go in ourterspace
Kojima meant that Huey would represent the role of the Ishmael character from Moby Dick, not that he's literally the Ishmael in MGSV: they meant that the story would be more from Huey's perspective, like how the book was from his point of view.
the big boss in mgs4 are made from "hes body leftovers" as the big boss who meet solid snake in mgs4 ending, so when big boss got bombed ?? is it in hes outer haven mgs gz
This game makes you always to double think stuff like how many of the stuff we witnessed were real or a hallucination i mean shit the whole game could be a dream at this point or a false story being said by someone
I died laughing when I heard Big Boss say he hates imitations cigars. 😂 How did Ocelot left that very important detail out while he was washing Venom's brain. Plus I wonder how many players realized Venom was a body double soley from the fact he was hitting the vape pen.
I mean, you'd just have to rewrite that first episode. Huey would never be able to move like John, but he could still get Medic out. It'd just be completely different.
_"Only Kojima can comprehend the magnitude of Kojima's vision."_ But back to the topic, I believe we have not enough information to make a cohesive conclusion. The idea of Huey being Ishmael "could" work under the certain circumstances if we toss aside his portrayal in MGSV and be a little "open-minded". But for now, all things consider, I just can imagine Emmerich filling the role of OG Ishmael.
People talk about the lost content and how we never got the full ending... I think the real missed opportunity involved David Hayter. Kojima mentioned that his original plan involved going back to the Ground Zeros setting and do something never done before. What if, after finishing MGSV, if you went and did a replay of GZ then it was the voice of Hayter for Snake? They could also have used Hayter the second time through the hospital for the voice of Ishmael if they wanted to clear up that up as well...
I guess just by accident and a rare coincidence between 1984 and the actual misshaps between Kojima and Konami, MGSV became the ultimate orwellian nightmare videogame. Nothing can be taken for granted, everything is relative and incomplete, and we all became Winston Smith.
Critical detail could be what Ocelot said: 72 was start of Zero madness ( children project ) and moment when BB was in only coma. In tapes he admits he is quiet sick up here. BB hated him becose children...V could be Zero / Hallucination. He talking with himself as Skull Face, and entire V just a VR.
Nothing doctors could do. Zero knew about parasites ( and who created them Code Talker ), but he said 'there is nothing they could do' ) But we know Wolbachia can cure it. It could mean je was aware that he is mentally sick, and nothing can be done about it. We know he was manipulating with Jack in Mgs 3. But Sokolov thanked trough Jack 'he is man off his word'...
I had hoped that the game would have ended as solid snake being the final boss, but of course, no matter what you always lose playing as venom I love the game, even though it was unfinished and hope it gets a chance to shine as it should someday
What if we've been doble double-crossed and Venom is actually BB brainwashed into believe that he's a body double brainwashed into believe he's BB, with Ishmael being the doctor brainwashed into believe he's BB? Or something like that.
Actually, I fully support the idea that Ishmael should have been Huey, and America/Cipher/The Patriots being the Whale. Every single thing I see Miller say in MGSV Phantom Pain, he reminds me that HE was the one with a compulsive traitor streak, lying about Paz and the doctor. Lying about Cipher, flat out telling us that Huey was behind everything even though he never got any proof or confession after putting the man through Torture (Something even you would agree Huey would've caved under quickly, that's the kind of stay out of danger guy he was), and even Codetalker telling us to watch Miller. Seriously, how does anyone believe anything this man says? Hell, Miller's first words upon meeting Venom are "Heh, No more use for me?" as in he was STILL working for Cipher at the time and assumed he was no longer useful. Instead of what we got. If Huey was actually Ishmael, his lines of "I've been watching you for 9 years" and the actual way Quiet (Pre-infection) gets dealt with (Lit on fire by having alcohol and a lighter used on her) could be something EASILY done by a man in a wheel chair. Then let's think of the times you're separated from Ishmael in the hospital, always around changing of floors. Something that a man in a Wheel chair can't do and thus would have to break apart from you. It also gives a good reason for him to be caught and forced to make the Walker Gears and Sahalanthropus for Cipher, and the reason why he felt in good conscience that he can send coded messages to get extraction. Now, what of the Crimes that Miller and Ocelot, both people who worked with Cipher (in varying degrees), condemned him for? The destruction of the MSF Mother Base and Skull Face's attack, saying Huey's invitation to UN Investigators was a ruse. I fully believe that Huey was still on the up and up. If everything was done correctly, MSF would be seen as the literal goodest of Good Boys, and probably sanctioned by the UN as an actual International Policing force. However, Cipher, who we know both Miller and Ocelot have worked with, attacks the Mother Base using Skull Face's XOF forces. The place is destroyed with Multiple explosives placed in areas that cannot be done during the course of a guided tour, and certainly couldn't be placed by a paraplegic stuck in a wheel chair. The next thing crime he supposedly committed was killing Strangelove by stuffing her into the Mammal Pod. I feel really bad for anyone who thinks a Paraplegic man could ever overpower Strangelove, forcing her into and sealing her inside of the fully functioning Mammal Pod. ALL WHILE CIPHER IS WATCHING THEM AND STILL AT LEAST SORT OF NEEDING STRANGELOVE TO UPGRADE THE MAMMAL POD? No, instead, because she refused to let her son be used as test pilot, and refused to rework the Mammal Pod due to her love for The Boss, Cipher killed her, and stuffed her in the Mammal Pod. The next big Crime caused was the Quarantine breech caused by the irradiated. Something that they had no proof of him planning for, nor any proof of malicious intent, because 'somehow' the Diamond Dogs figured out Huey was behind it, they went along with a kangaroo court, blamed him as guilty of all charges, and Miller was going to execute him. Something Venom stopped. Miller was going to have Emmerich tailed "Just in case," something else Venom also stopped. Who is the Key investigator in all these Torture based interrogations? Not the man who is the consummate Torturer later in the series (Ocelot), but Miller, the man who has admitted to lying to Snake before. So no, what we got in the story, Huey being Ishmael, and there only being one Big Boss, would have been INFINITELY better than what we got. Huey instead would've been the good guy, who saved the man who he thought could stop war, but was framed for literally every crime Miller or Cipher did, and was thrown out to sea. It would have further shown us the Dark Descent Big Boss had as he continued to struggle against his White Whale, The Patriots. Showing this fall to evil as his casting away Huey, Ishmael, the last good man with good intent.
This Unused MGSV Ending was going to be much different than what we got, and would have raised so much more questions than answers! But which Ending do you guys prefer? 🤔 SUBSCRIBE to our Channel to stay updated with our upcoming METAL GEAR SOLID content! 🎬🐍
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- Python & Selkan
The way it ended was just how it was meant to be. I couldn't imagine it being any other way
@PythonSelkan Why you talk like some low level isis member lol ??
That would’ve been a crazy ending for sure to see Huey fighting people and saving venom.
But on a same but different topic, now that we have vol. 1 coming out in October, what if the next volume included MGSV and is release on September 1st 2024? And there is some secret to it after being in a “coma” for 9 years?
Some people lived the unused ending. And irl lost their minds.
This one is good, but the one we got jumps the fourth wall and breaks it into pieces in an Augmented Reality game knife if way. Like Perplex City. And that is an absolute feat of brilliance.
All of Foxhound was founded by the real Big Boss, not Venom Snake. The reason for knowing this is because as a unit, both Grey Fox and Solid Snake infiltrated Outer Heaven under the real Big Boss’s orders under the banner of Foxhound, and in Zanzibar, Grey Fox was loyal to the real Big Boss. Grey Fox knew who the real Big Boss was after Snake’s confrontation of Venom, which is why he was still loyal to the real Big Boss.
Venom had no access to Foxhound because the Big Boss secret was meant to be hidden to the world. It was also shown at the end of MGSV that Big Boss had to change his identity, which is possibly why Sniper Wolf knew Big Boss as Saladin.
Plus after MGSV, I think it’s safe to assume that Ocelot saw it best fit to leave Diamond Dogs with Eli and Mantis somewhere in between 1974 and 1995 to join Foxhound. Eli and Mantis were problematic and were a liability with Diamond Dogs. Ocelot and Eli also had nothing to do with the original MG games, otherwise he would have appeared in the Outer Heaven incident and with that in mind, Octopus, Mantis, Raven, and Wolf never would of gone with Ocelot and Liquid’s plans in 2005 unless they established a relationship.
I know this isn’t technically canon but some elements are, but Big Boss and Roy Campbell founded Foxhound in 1971, and I think it’s safe to say that the hypno therapy Venom Snake went through had no knowledge of Foxhound because Zero and Ocelot had no knowledge of the establishment happening at the time. Once the Patriots AI took full control, they found out about the two Big Boss’s and the time to take action started with the Outer Heaven incident. Zero wanted to protect the real Big Boss but the Patriots AI took it upon itself to Eliminate the Big Boss threat. Zero never wanted this but once he became ill, that’s when the Patriots AI took control.
When Big Boss woke up from his Coma, he went back to Foxhound and resumed control which was already established 13 years ago. Miller only joined because he was loyal to the real Big Boss, and when Zanzibar happened, he wanted to eliminate Both Big Boss’s due to manipulation and wanted to train Solid Snake to take down Big Boss.
I’m saying all of this because it’s easy as a hardcore fan to put all of this information together and it’s worth talking about and giving knowledge to people, especially because we’re never going to get an MGS6 that explains all of this.
MGSV is truly a mysterious game, I swear there’s a mystique to this game.
Very much so it’s so many ways to play it so many endings so many different things that may be wrong but maybe right nothing is concrete
Mystique is from x-men 😂
true. games werent the same after mgsv.
It doesn't help that this one was kinda connected to the cancelled Silent HIlls.
To this day I am still disappointed that Lisa Decoy from the dev video was not in the actual game. It would be insane to scare the soldiers with that ghost lady.
Yeah, it's rare to see a modern aaa game with so much mystery surrounding it
The first casualty of war is truth. I believe Kojima's overarching message from the MGS saga is summed up by Snake "we are not tools of the government". I guess Kojima's is saying, forge your own path in life and don't let the sins of the father dictate your path in life. The cycle of war continues because every old men start wars and young men fight them. MGS taught me to learn from the past and with that knowledge don't repeat the previous generations mistakes. Thanks Python. Never Game Over.
I think this is what Kojima wanted - for people to learn through (his) games.
I learned that in MGR:R's final cutscenes.
That being true, we are currently at war in real life, lies every where
my interpretation was that it was the medics persona helping himself like in fight club or cod black ops 1 scenario
Is it possible that this ending would have revealed that Huey's disability was an elaborate ruse from the start? A massive callback to Peter Stillman. His lack of combat experience also being fabricated could be seen as a throwback to Raiden, who originally claimed/believed to only have VR training, before the reveal of his past as a child soldier.
I love the Metal Gear series and always will, but MGSV always makes me bitter as a game that could have made so much sense and give me closure, for a series I've been invested in for years. I honestly felt like Peace Walker answered my questions about the canon, MGSV just introduced a bunch of cool what if scenarios such as volgin coming back and hallucinations, only to leave us with an ambiguous story.
True words. Unfortunately it's part of the game's theme of "Phantom Pain" (even stated in the game's script). The only issue is that many people fail to realize the concept, and they interpret everything the game shows them as "facts", even though they've been playing as somebody who wasn't who they thought.
- P&S
How would a prequel give you any closure? The story already ended with MGS4.
@davidstinger1134 questions I had about Big Boss time after Foxhound.
Your videos are MGS VI, VII and VIII all togheter mate
I dont think the "I don't like imitations" line from Peacewalker was necessarily setting up the MGSV twist. Remember, at that point the series has already had 3 literal clones of Big Boss, 4 attempts at copying Outer Heaven, a secondary protagonist that the community had decided couldn't live up to Snake, 2 Cyborg Ninja copycats, a whole game of bosses poorly aping their Foxhound namesakes, and a literal Metal Gear sequel that Kojima only even learned existed when it was already about to ship. Even the themes of Peacewalker are largely about how AI is a poor replacement for human soldiers, and how Big Boss feels himself a poor imitation of The Boss.
This is less foreshadowing, and more staying on theme.
The idea if Ishmael being Frank Jager would be better and make sense.
Yep. rip
Why? Gray Fox had never met Big Boss before
No
It's crazy how a game that's unfinished and will never be fixed, can still end up being a masterpiece.
Also has aged like a fine wine 100% playable in 2023.
@@TubeSurfer10fr
@@TubeSurfer10 I'm replaying it right now, along with Peace Walker.
Its not unfinished stop with this narrative the game is complete nothing is missing that wasn't thrown out way early in development one cut missions which was cut from the game itself and then almost turned into dlc before being cancelled again doesnt mean the game is unfinished
@Garland846 If a mission, chico, and the battlegear are enough to call mgsv unfinished then oh boy MGS2 the most unfinished game ever
Actually makes a lot of sense. Some of Ishmael's mannerisms feel more like something Huey would do compared to Big Boss. Like jumping on Quiet instead of proper CQC.
I think we are never going to know to the full extent how much content/ideas were cut/scrapped due to Konami wanting Kojima out and wanting a product made. I feel a some of the dialogue in the cassette tapes was supposed to be cut scenes, but due to the cost of using the fox engine and the huge amount of money already used in the games budget, some cutscenes were scrapped, chapters and missions cut and just the game map feels like there should be more to do.
Both of you STHU.
@@JJ_Jack_Gittes no you sthu
@@qtsssim yeah kind of come from PW but when PW had the excuse of UMD space it was really a questionnable choice in the case of MGSV.
The Truth tapes were obviously meant to be cutscenes.
The one where Skullface poisons Zero is hilarious because there's literally a sound effect in it that's pretty much a "slowmo camera" moment.
@@davidstinger1134 it sucks because I would loved to see the fox engine version of a older Zero. The fact we didn't get to physically see him was a huge crime.
Awesome video!! You presented it so well. Kojima’s stories never fail to make me scratch my head and I love it HAHA
It could that Big Boss was wearing a mask of Ishmael The Eyes and Shaved face must be disguise. Kojima hinted that the Bandaged face is just a Mask
Yes, its clear that it was whole mask not just bandages.
too bad the right eye moves, and why would Big boss wear a mask if he had bandages on?
@@TungstenViper Because he doesn't want to have a slight ideo that he looks like him so he got a bandaged and shaved mask
@@TungstenViper venom is an unreliable narrator dude....
@@TheKiddingStar exactly. So why are we believing that ishmael is big boss even tho it makes absolutely no sense?
I loved how you put MGS data from MGS4, that soundtrack is so relaxing and COOL
*"This story, this "legend", it's ours... I am you, and you are me."* I like the ending they went with.. it felt like a goodbye message from Kojima.
yeah, like "he is Big Boss and *you* player too."
Gotta love interesting Metal Gear commentary, analysis and perspective. Keep up the great content🔥💯
Great video as always man!
Ishmael was a hallucination, Venom and Boss were the same person until the wreck that brought Ocelot into play. Quiet threw the knife at Venom when he tried to attack in a weakened state. The ending where we see Boss on the motorcycle was how we, the player viewed him. Ishmael was never real, but an amalgamation of Boss and Venom, their personalities going their separate ways after the wreck. It’s a stretch, but makes more sense than some of the plot elements displayed.
now we're talking
Better than the real ending
No it doesnt, your plot is basically "it was all a dream".
Its truly amazing that mgs5 is the gift that keeps giving. Just when you thought their wasnt any more discoveries, more keep on flowing
I would of preferred a gray fox ending twist
i could swear, that on my first playthrough ishmael fired the gun at the hospital.
He actually DOES fire if you take too long
He doesn't shoot on sync with Venom for some reason tho
@@iroquoisfox1579i swear in my first play through he did shot on sync
@@iroquoisfox1579 Because BB is trying to hide who he really is/make himself seem like a hallucination iun venom mind so venom doesnt start digging into what actually was going on
I like the voice over videos, I know it's More work but I appreciate being able to listen to the video sneakily at work like a podcast lol
If we ever get true answers to this game one day, it be amazing. But still Hideo is teasing MGS 5 and peace walker in posts. History repeats itself. Great job on the video guys
Cause there are Eastereggs that haven't been solved...
His hinting at it with his post...
I refuse to believe these secrets were left here to not be discovered at a later date.
Forever a mystery in the MGS universe may never know. Love it how Kojima will keep us guessing
What If ishmael isnt big boss or a figment of imagination... whatbif hes a kojima self insert. He hid in the promo of mgsv as ishmael and you save him in a side mission. Yeah its thin but think on it. even the end when ocelot meets "big boss at the van" then sends him on his way. Well what if he was actually saving kojima,after saving you.
I swear, just walking around the open world carrying out generic ops and resource hunting feels like somethings happened, or something is about to happen, like every footsoldier and Diamond Dog soldier is just waiting for something to happen.
A perpetual state of waiting for an in game event to take place.
WHAT CASSETTE IS THAT??? "The moment any truth is passed on it starts turning into fiction..." I need to hear it fully. Please n thanks. Love your work
when I first played this game I thought Ishmael was Solidus, hence the same voice he has to big boss and two eyes
incredibly well put together video
Sir your videos have helped ease my personal phantom pain, from Source Code to 1984, you’ve put the pieces together for those of us who can’t seem to move on. Thank you
Many thanks for the kind comment! 😊🙏
- P&S
Perhaps the real Ishmaels are the friends we make along the way! xD
On a more serious note though, at some point in time I thought Ishmael had the bandages around his head because he had swapped faces with someone else (most likely with Venom Snake)
Based on this, it seems as though they swapped Huey with Big Boss and Big Boss with Venom. I've long thought that MGSV was meant to have a 5-act structure, and that the Diamond Dogs you build up in one half would be taken down by Big Boss when you swapped places halfway through - a final base infiltration where you take on Venom as Big Boss, foreshadowing the future battles between Snake and Liquid, and with Venom visually distinct as a consequence of the bone fragment sticking out of his head. After all, we know that Big Boss goes on to work with Foxhound and infiltrate the US, so, to me, it would make sense. We also know that idea of clones, DNA, memes, legacy, duality plays a huge role in the whole Metal Gear cannon. So swapping Huey out for Big Boss would make a lot of sense: him, Ocelot and EVA are the only characters who are truly in the Ishmael role at that point in the story. They're characters whose allegiance isn't to Diamond Dogs or to America/Cipher (really Zero/The Patriots). And for the whole Moby Dick comparison to work, Venom and Diamond Dogs need to go down and we know they do, too. By the time of Outer Heaven, neither Venom nor Diamond Dogs exist in a narrative sense prior to that final twist that has the air of a rushed ending thought up by Konami when they stopped Kojima working on MGSV.
This also makes a huge amount of narrative and thematic sense, too. If we look at Kojima's past MGS games, they all usually operate with a prologue, five acts and epilogue. They function as an initial incident which sets up the events of the story. Part one establishes setting and characters. Part two deepens the mystery and veers off into characters that don't feature significantly in the ending. Part three is all journey and complications. Part four is where the reveals and twists start to come. Part five is the massive showdown. Then the epilogue recontextualises everything. In MGSV, we only really getting setting and characters and an initial mystery in the grander Metal Gear narrative - both 'Ground Zeroes' and the entirety of 'The Phantom Pain' only really set-up the true antagonists of the series: Zero and The Patriots AIs. They are the true Moby Dick that they are chasing, but, in order to do so, Venom Snake and Diamond Dogs need to take a long hard look at themselves to set out on this journey - by facing they're mirror opposites, the similarly identity-less Skullface, a man so lacking an identity he has no face, and his Cipher faction, another rogue military organisation like Diamond Dogs. They see the warning signs but rush on regardless.
Chapter Two then starts building on this and is where the game ends. We have the mystery of a mole in DDs, with fingers not just pointed at Huey but also at Miller by Codetalker. We know for a fact that Ocelot isn't being honest given how close he has previously been to Zero, Big Boss and EVA, too. We get the beginnings of learning about Les Enfants Terrible. The whole Paz storyline is the first hint that Venom is going insane, much like Ahab, and the cut Kingdom of the Flies shows that Venom would become so dangerous that he shoots Liquid - who never actually meets Big Boss, as he is supposed to. Where it ends doesn't remotely line-up with what we learn in Metal Gear Solid, either. How does Miller get in Foxhound's good graces enough that Liquid can masquerade as him helping Solid Snake? How does Ocelot end up working with Liquid when that kid has no reason to trust him at all? Then there are the obvious characters missing from the story: the African setting cannot have been thought up without a plan to introduce Grey Fox; the Soviet antagonism was obviously setting up Gurlukovich and his reputation as the Russian Big Boss, another mirror image for Snake/Venom to face; and where the heck is EVA, or many of the other survivors of Snake Eater and Peace Walker? What about the sequence at the Normandy beach landings hinted at in tweets by Kojima? Then there is the hint that with so much cloning going on, Paz reappearing and her story having such a weird and poorly developed ending, and Paz and The Boss AI both having names hinted at as being "peace", I always thought it obvious that Les Enfants Terrible started with cloning The Boss to create Paz, not that she was just some random child soldier.
For me, this indicates that the game was more likely to go something like this: Skullface attacks Diamond Dogs; Venom is then put in place to go after Skullface whilst Big Boss is brought in to Cipher/America to again turn him into their poster child; act two sees Venom Snake start to slip into madness via hallucinations and the general weirdness that surrounds him; chapter three would then see Big Boss making peace with Cipher/America to take them down from within whilst Venom declared all out war (war being peace in Orwell's 1984, and the obvious implication of that title card, as well as Peace being a reference to both Paz and The Boss) and become an absolute monster in pursuit of his revenge; this would leave part four for the switch back to Big Boss either at the start or end, where the finale would then see Big Boss "taking down" Diamond Dogs in a base infiltration more or less the same as the multiplayer (where you invade the bases others have built up over the course of their games, the kind of meta twist Kojima loves, and a potential game changer as you would create the final level, essentially), before Big Boss stops Venom Snake; the epilogue would then reveal that Big Boss actually saved many of the soldiers to form Outer Heaven with the purpose of stopping Zero/The Patriots AIs, recontextualising his role in the series as a whole as he learns that his "world that will always have a place for soldiers" was as flawed an ideal as The Boss's world peace and Zero's extreme control to keep people safe. Then, we find out that they planned out the events of Metal Gear through to Metal Gear Solid 4 as a way to ultimately free everyone to make their own choices, with Big Boss, like The Boss, sacrificing himself for his true mission. The ultimate tragic hero. Thus, Ahab, aka Venom Snake, descends into madness and sinks beneath the ocean at the end, whilst Ishmael, aka Big Boss, learns the folly of chasing whales like a madman and decides to wait for the right moment to strike... like a Snake.
But, the flaw in this is simply one I stated earlier: we don't know what was going to happen as we only just got to the point in the story where things kick off when the game was ended prematurely by Konami firing Kojima. Certainly, we didn't get the full game. So we can't know where it was heading or where the story would have truly ended up as a result. I just think that given what we do know, and the various gameplay elements we did see, that this is likely where the story would have ended up.
Well according to one of the games solid fights venom the game could have continued after skull face. Liquid goes on to build his base and later snake gets put into stopping him with the end of metal gear five we play as young snake beating venom which ties all the games together.
Would have been great
Obviously Ishmael is Chico, who survived the helicopter crash and has grown up during the time that venom is in his coma. This gives him literal years to perfect his big boss impression, fooling everyone into believing BB was the one who saved venom.
I’m so glad that the close captioning works because it was kind of hard to follow everything you were saying. But great video! Thanks for posting
What if emerick got his ability to walk after exposing to the parasite, and got genetic super powers like Quite invisibly and Kaz high senses.
I think it could have worked, using parasite therapy. Seeing Huey try to save Venom to make up for creating Sahelanthropus under duress would have been cool and at least align with the character development in Peace Walker... Huey in MGSV felt nothing like the character in Peace Walker..
So. I've always had the unpopular opinion that the body double was a red herring.
The truth mission is a lie.
I believe that the player character is Big Boss and he is being brainwashed/has been brainwashed.
All the hypnosis isn't to train a new Big Boss but the repatriation of Snake after the events of Peace Walker and msg3.
This is the best explanation for the contradictions we see, in my opinion.
Consider the often brought up comments from Kaz about Paz in Ground Zero.
To delve deeper, it's often remarked that skull face represents the boss's jungian shadow. While this isn't incorrect, he also represents everything the Boss had come to hate about the government and himself and would be the parts of himself that would have to be killed for him to be a useful tool.
Ishmael was his better half in this analogy. He became someone else in that hospital and the scene of Big Boss riding off into the sunset was all in his head. That was the ideal big boss being sent away by ocelot.
big doubt, wouldn’t explain the mystery of two big bosses in MGS1 and 2
@@machupich the mystery that isn't a mystery unless one makes it a mystery?
How has that been explained for the 25 years before MGSV came out?
@@Loreweavver the only answers made no sense…
he couldn’t have survived the outer heaven explosion while being injured by snake
couldn’t have been a different body double seeing as the big boss we fought believed he was big boss and had the same skills as big boss (as mentioned by snake)
people used loose explanations and theories to explain it before MGSV. We now have a definitive answer.
@@machupich there is nothing definitive about the interpretation about the information given in MGSV.
The truth is a lie.
Everything anyone has said about the ending is pure speculation and open to interpretation or we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You interpret it one way, I interpret it another, while every other player interprets it their own way.
The existence of two big boss had already been explained and then retconned.
You just have a preference to the retcon.
@@Loreweavver i guess that makes sense…i just see the retcon making 80x more sense
Huey no Pinocchio? Yeah right! Good job guys :)
Ngl, this goddamm game is the weirdest game of the whole series, and they all had their fair share of weirdness.
Very nice work guys👍
Keep it up
When a concept can't come into fruition due to MGS standards, then you know it's REALLY wild! 😆
I think if Kojima went with his original concept, he may have worked it out to where it makes sense, but I don't think it would have been as great to what we actually got.
What we have just seems to flow better (Even though I feel it's just not yet complete).
As great as Hideo Kojima is, it is always good to have a supportive team to help in pulling the reins just a bit before the director gets too carried away!
Despite all the wildfires going on here in Hawai’i
Still happy to be here and watch your content
🙌🏽✊🏽
Be safe, good luck.
@@synthgal1090 🙏🏽🙏🏽
We're glad to be of company in such difficult times 🙏 Be safe and take good care to both yourself and your loved ones! 💪
- Python & Selkan
@@PythonSelkan 🤯😱 thank you will do
C’mon talk PythonSelkan to 100K before 2023 is over
✊🏽🙌🏽
And to think they went on the record saying that Peace was the correct way they wanted the game to end. It does lead up into the ending of MSX's MGS2 story but it still felt empty.
Kojima was in Usada Pekora chat, when she was playing MGS.
Im happy Ive experienced this game series in my life time because it compliments many movies in one art piece/series .
I know it will never be a second Snake or Big Boss. This already took 30 yrs to build a legend.
Oh man... I've played the game on all five systems, I've read the books (Moby Dick, Lord of the Flies, 1984, The Bible) and I wasn't even close to what I saw in this video . Sometimes I made too much one-to-one comparisons, sometimes I thought too much on the meta level and missed too many details. A very well done video, even if I had to turn on the subtitles because I couldn't understand everything acoustically. I think that Kojima couldn't implement some of what he had planned and had to make compromises with a lot of half-finished things like the Lord of the Flies mission in order not to leave the game with a completely open ending. But Big Boss is sort of like O'Brien in 1984 when he told Winston he might not recognize him next time he met him because he could change his whole appearance, which would explain Ishmael having both eyes. However, O'Brien belongs to the Inner Party, so this thesis does not work. Emmerich's role as Ishmael is also difficult, since he fits well as an observer and Ismael strays from the hunt for the white whale and has to be convinced by Ahab, but nobody leaves the Pequod alive, but Emmerich is sent away. Then again he dies by drowning as it says in MGS2, which again equates his end with that of Ishmael.
While I'm looking forward to the larger vids you're cooking up, vids like this with genuinely intriguing BTS trivia and the implications they would have had on the story are a great way to fill the content gap. 😁👌
That said, I've got a large project I've been working on for the past year that's just about to drop!
Kojima's Deception is dead, but I'm still in a dream. I hope you two check it out and enjoy when it drops!
*"It is happening again..."* 👀😱
YOOO❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗❗
I really do wish that this ending wasn't spoiled for me the year the game was released
Nice video
The one thing I don’t get about Venom Snake is if he’s just a medic and he becomes ass good as Big Boss as a soldier etc, them surely that kind of makes Big Boss just look like you’re average soldier if anyone can become as good as him.. like he’s just a medic but becomes an equal to Big Boss.. can someone explain this? Just makes Big Boss look average if anyone can be as good as him. He’s supposed to be a legend on the battlefield
I think medic was one of Big Boss's best (if not the best) soldiers. the Medic was not the average soldiers. But I think the point was that the legend is bigger than Big Boss himself
I am landing on a mental manifestation: the things Ishmael did Venom did. But he saw it as Ishmael helping him.
Maybe the TRUTH will come after 9 years ?!
It’s my last hope
I was just playing Phantom Pain on PS3 for a little bit (hadn’t finished it by the way, though I watched tons of spoilers and theory vids, like the ones on this channel. I think the ending did more than what Kojima planned for. Left us filling in the gaps, like a conspiracy theory. This wouldn’t work with most games, and you’d think this wouldn’t fly in Metal Gear. But it’s that whole thing with the brain damage, really turns up the question, what’s real to Venom Snake, he’s seeing it, but is it really there? Or about how he’s the puppet being told what he saw wasn’t what it was and we are revealed to truth.
Epic way to end a series, keep you wanting more
8:11 to answer this question. I believe "Ismael's" role would have been completely different to what we got in MGS:V perhaps even the whole hospital introduction wasn't even a thing during the time Kojima had plans of making Huey Ismael.
If 2 + 2 = 5 I have a spin on the game that rewrites the entire timeline AND ties up the series nicely.
Mgs 4 guns of the patriots tells the story uniquely...
The patriots being the founding fathers... gotta go back to the 1700s and great awakening to understand how the constitution was made and created...
I've played through all of the MG games from the first two on the NES. I have been able to get S+ rankings on almost all of the V missions and I prefer the ending that was in the game. It makes the story even deeper and better connected to the first games. I really just wish he had been able to finish it as he wanted and wasn't shunned before the end. It's my favorite game ever and a masterpiece.
Well if you kill “big boss” in MGS1 but he meets snake in the graveyard in MGS4 that means it would have had to be the double… right?
As mysterious as MSGV is. I think how it played out was brilliant as is. Huey “being” Ishmael would of been a complete mind bender and wouldn’t make any sense. Just very sad that we didn’t get to see the very last of MSGV and what events took place after.
A true love of a series❤
I was quiet dissapointed by the ending and the Story in general.
I World live to See, the Story of the 2d-mgs-games in a modern game
Ah... the wishes i had for this story are much much far off what most people would have. I personally would have wished nothing would have gone wrong. An alternate ending, where huey is not a traitor, where the MSF spirit lived on, big boss remained big boss, the child soldiers didn't escape and all lived peacefully ever after T^T. Because yes, i'd trylly fallen in love with the whole MSF physiologie. Their own little country admist the ocean, no borders, living off of helping countries in wars and what their spoils of wars.
It always bothered me that it was supposed to be big boss saving you from hospital but he was a total amateur who couldnt fight
I think a better twist would be Ishmael was really Frank Hunter which would explain the bandages since around that same time Frank had his ears and nose lopped off.
And we would have gotten him in another game which is very overdue.
If they ever remaster or remake MGSV it would be really cool if they got David Hayter to record the voice of Snake in the hospital scenes, putting on a fake voice to hide his identity, but then leave Venom Snake voiced as Keifer Sutherland. Then that would explain why Venom sounds different the whole game, because he's not Snake.
Actually could see it working, if at the first time you play the opening, it's Huey saving Snake. Then at the truth mission, you find out it was part of Huey's telling/lying of events, possibly implied that he told the public/history books that he was the one who "saved big boss" but was then betrayed by them because they're 'black hearted mercenaries'. Kind of like his revenge being to paint himself as the good guy.
his lying would make sense, since he lied through all of his "discoveries"
Assuming it's not a hallucination, the Huey/Ishmael twist could work if it was revealed the real reason he could walk and even fight (safely but poorly) was an early version of Gray Fox's exoskeleton tech.
The tech lineage from Zadornov's (seemingly unique at the time) hand to Grey Fox's exoskeleton is uncharacteristically blurry for MGS. It's also suspect that Para-medic could suddenly become a god-tier roboticist and invent it, all while doing the genome therapy experiments on Fox, all in less than 3 years, even if she outsourced manufacturing. Madnar probably isn't an option either, timeline-wise.
Huey has the robotics skills and direct personal incentive to invent the basis for it, but not the advanced medical knowledge, skills, and industry connections.
There's plenty to work with there for a subplot which explains that The Patriots already had access to a predecessor tech that she studied much earlier on, which allowed her to invent Gray Fox's exoskeleton in such a small amount of time alongside other projects.
Maybe tie that in to whatever's going on with the mystery of her death date, and "Dr. Naomi Hunter."
This is the game that made me love the series and play the other 4 MGS games.
That would explain Ishmael peeing in the corridor where they were laying prone next to the dead bodies.
It's a shame they never finished mission 51 to many plot points they never finished or addressed. Would have been cool to end it with solid killing venom like in the last day of outer heaven fan clip.
Thats the ending i wanted aswell would have been cool having your base under attack and your top guys dying 1by1 and at the end you see young solid who wastes you
The game is too unfinished
@@ghostwhencodghosts9114 no its not its a complete game jsut because you werent satisfied with how the game played out doenst mean it was unfinished
You're exacly right no matter what certain fans think the plot of liquid was never finished and chapter 2 just abruptly ends. Alot of the plot is hidden in tapes that really should have been cutscenes konami had a hand in cutting down the development of the game due to costs.
@@ghostwhencodghosts9114
@@gman2570but it literally is an unfinished game, he couldn’t make chapter 2 due to most of the budget going to chapter one
hey, in the hospital, if you dont kill the 2 xof soldiers and wait for a pretty long time, ishmael will kill them himself.
that is a really tough question.
and i have honestly no idea, how it would work with huey as ishmael other than he would be only a narrator. the whole opening sequence would have to be changed.
if i could ever ask kojima a question about his games (not about the konami fallout, or if mgsv was finished) it would be defo THIS question.
Its very likely that both Konami and Kojima considered the chapter 3 ending unachievable through normal means. This is because from a statistical perspective, you can only invade a base once a day, but in that same day a single player can produce 16 nukes. So at maximum output, a hypothetical nuclear faction would vastly outpace a hypothetical disarment faction 16:1. Ontop of this, the way that FOB online accounts are handled is such that those who are in possesion of nukes retain them on their FOB, but should those accounts stay offline for long enough, their FOBs are delisted from the invasion menu making them inaccessible for the disarment faction.
In a manner of speaking, the way in which chapter 3's cutscene was triggered on PS3 resembles the plot of the MGS series as a whole if you read up on it. An individual springs up with the goal of achieving world peace, they form a group to attain this lofty goal, but after realizing the rigged nature of the systems they operate under, and the insurmountable odds that are stacked against them, they turn to a technology (hacks/bots) to take control of those systems in order to stop the development of weapons of mass destruction. But in resorting to this technology, the faction becomes corrupted, their ranks split up, their message twisted into a bastardization of the one presented by their founder. This is not disimilar to the boss, whose will was reinterpreted by the philosophers until disagreement over it led to infighting between them causing them to fracture, which eventually spiraled humanity into a dystopian series of unending wars that was perpretuated by a technology that had long since been out of the control of any one sect or group.
To be honest I cant tell what Kojima wanted to say with his self-proclaimed social experiment. Metal gear has always been about nuclear weapons since the very start, but the manner in which this multiplayer mechanic was handled was such that it was designed to be virtually impossible to achieve through legitimate means. The only way for the disarment faction to prevail is to cheat through the use of hacks, bots, scripts.etc
One possible interpretation is that Kojima wanted to illustrate how idealistic and unrealistic the dream of nuclear disarment really is. But this would be inconsistant with his own philosophy in support of nuclear disarment, a philosophy that is presented across the other MGS games. On the other hand, maybe what he is trying to convey, is that despite the impossibility of nuclear disarment, perhaps it is worth striving for nontheless. It is certainly strange that the methods used to arrive at this cutscene resemble the story of MGS, and I cant help but wonder if this was intentional. Perhaps im giving Kojima too much credit here, and maybe its just a happy accident or willfull interpretation on my part. One way or another we can certainly conclude as many others have that MGS5 was an unfinished game that was supposed to have a third chapter. If the game were fully complete, we could imagine a game where after chapter 2, players would need to achieve global nuclear disarment, before continuing the story and unlocking new episodes. Perhaps this is what Kojima meant when he stated in an interview that he MGSV to "do something that can only be achieved by video games". But as we all know, since as early as MGS2, Kojima has been infamous for his unfulfilled ambition with tens if not hundreds of ideas being scrapped along the way. Im almost certain that chapter 3 was among those ideas, it seems far more likely that the only reason Konami opted to 'verify' the disarments on twitter was to stoke the flames and keep player engagement up. They most likely sought to string players along by giving them reason to believe that chapter 3 was still in development or that it existed as an update that was to be released when global nuclear disarment was legitimately achieved.
The question is whether this was expected by Kojima, did he intend for Konami to rig the game? Did he himself rig it? Were players expected to learn that chapter 3 was unachievable through legitimate means? If so this would make chapter 3 the ultimate summary of what the MGS series is all about, if not this would feel like salt in the wound to the players hoping that MGS5 would someday realize its full potential. It would simultaniously villainize Konami even more so than they already have been by the broader gaming community. I hope that one day, Kojima will spill the beans and tell us what MGS5 was meant to be, what this social experiment was supposed to say, how it was supposed to end.
What if the bandages represent that young psycho mantis was causing him to hallucinate too? In the boss fight in MGS1 the statues had bandages. Maybe young Psycho Mantis could do that while being with Volgin/man on fire. I think that points to him in a way.
there was an old fan theory that Ishmael was Decoy Octopus which im fond of.
Huey being Ismael would've always been a stretch.
The more I look into this game, the less I truly comprehend about this game.
Not only are you my prime source all things MGS, but you are truly one of a kind. Your presentation and delivery are just on point as far as deconstructing a game and analyzing it piece by piece. You are the best game dissector on RUclips.
Ismael is huey emmerich? nahh its impossible in history of huey hes born with birth defect thats why hes using exoskeleton plus hes a scientist wanting to go in ourterspace
Kojima meant that Huey would represent the role of the Ishmael character from Moby Dick, not that he's literally the Ishmael in MGSV: they meant that the story would be more from Huey's perspective, like how the book was from his point of view.
the big boss in mgs4 are made from "hes body leftovers"
as the big boss who meet solid snake in mgs4 ending, so when big boss got bombed ?? is it in hes outer haven mgs gz
That second guy who was helping I feel was either master Miller or grey fox.
Offcourse.."nanomachines son"
This game makes you always to double think stuff like how many of the stuff we witnessed were real or a hallucination i mean shit the whole game could be a dream at this point or a false story being said by someone
I died laughing when I heard Big Boss say he hates imitations cigars. 😂 How did Ocelot left that very important detail out while he was washing Venom's brain.
Plus I wonder how many players realized Venom was a body double soley from the fact he was hitting the vape pen.
I mean, you'd just have to rewrite that first episode. Huey would never be able to move like John, but he could still get Medic out. It'd just be completely different.
_"Only Kojima can comprehend the magnitude of Kojima's vision."_
But back to the topic, I believe we have not enough information to make a cohesive conclusion. The idea of Huey being Ishmael "could" work under the certain circumstances if we toss aside his portrayal in MGSV and be a little "open-minded".
But for now, all things consider, I just can imagine Emmerich filling the role of OG Ishmael.
People talk about the lost content and how we never got the full ending... I think the real missed opportunity involved David Hayter. Kojima mentioned that his original plan involved going back to the Ground Zeros setting and do something never done before. What if, after finishing MGSV, if you went and did a replay of GZ then it was the voice of Hayter for Snake? They could also have used Hayter the second time through the hospital for the voice of Ishmael if they wanted to clear up that up as well...
That makes no sense because the Japanese version did keep Snake's old VA for Venom.
my head cannon is the new VA exists because the ground zeros game is also just the brainwashing by ocelot
Emmerich MGS1: Its all my fault. Emmerich MGSV: Its not my fault.
I guess just by accident and a rare coincidence between 1984 and the actual misshaps between Kojima and Konami, MGSV became the ultimate orwellian nightmare videogame. Nothing can be taken for granted, everything is relative and incomplete, and we all became Winston Smith.
I was expecting more the ending of mgsv I thought I tv did a poor job explaining what happened during that 11 year gap.
Can you make a video based on the MGS book (2008) by Raymond Benson?
There may be some information in the MGS novels.
That’s an AMAZING idea. Great thinking!
Critical detail could be what Ocelot said: 72 was start of Zero madness ( children project ) and moment when BB was in only coma. In tapes he admits he is quiet sick up here. BB hated him becose children...V could be Zero / Hallucination. He talking with himself as Skull Face, and entire V just a VR.
Nothing doctors could do. Zero knew about parasites ( and who created them Code Talker ), but he said 'there is nothing they could do' ) But we know Wolbachia can cure it. It could mean je was aware that he is mentally sick, and nothing can be done about it. We know he was manipulating with Jack in Mgs 3. But Sokolov thanked trough Jack 'he is man off his word'...
The only way Huey could walk again would be parasites, so yeah, it's not outside the realm of Hideo's imagination.
I think Venom Snake IS Big Boss from Ground Zeroes, it's just explosion, coma and everything changed him...
I had hoped that the game would have ended as solid snake being the final boss, but of course, no matter what you always lose playing as venom I love the game, even though it was unfinished and hope it gets a chance to shine as it should someday
What if we've been doble double-crossed and Venom is actually BB brainwashed into believe that he's a body double brainwashed into believe he's BB, with Ishmael being the doctor brainwashed into believe he's BB?
Or something like that.
My Brain! Too much theory! Augh!
I swer on me mum, I've seen Ishmael fire on my walkthrough
Actually, I fully support the idea that Ishmael should have been Huey, and America/Cipher/The Patriots being the Whale. Every single thing I see Miller say in MGSV Phantom Pain, he reminds me that HE was the one with a compulsive traitor streak, lying about Paz and the doctor. Lying about Cipher, flat out telling us that Huey was behind everything even though he never got any proof or confession after putting the man through Torture (Something even you would agree Huey would've caved under quickly, that's the kind of stay out of danger guy he was), and even Codetalker telling us to watch Miller. Seriously, how does anyone believe anything this man says? Hell, Miller's first words upon meeting Venom are "Heh, No more use for me?" as in he was STILL working for Cipher at the time and assumed he was no longer useful.
Instead of what we got. If Huey was actually Ishmael, his lines of "I've been watching you for 9 years" and the actual way Quiet (Pre-infection) gets dealt with (Lit on fire by having alcohol and a lighter used on her) could be something EASILY done by a man in a wheel chair. Then let's think of the times you're separated from Ishmael in the hospital, always around changing of floors. Something that a man in a Wheel chair can't do and thus would have to break apart from you. It also gives a good reason for him to be caught and forced to make the Walker Gears and Sahalanthropus for Cipher, and the reason why he felt in good conscience that he can send coded messages to get extraction.
Now, what of the Crimes that Miller and Ocelot, both people who worked with Cipher (in varying degrees), condemned him for? The destruction of the MSF Mother Base and Skull Face's attack, saying Huey's invitation to UN Investigators was a ruse. I fully believe that Huey was still on the up and up. If everything was done correctly, MSF would be seen as the literal goodest of Good Boys, and probably sanctioned by the UN as an actual International Policing force. However, Cipher, who we know both Miller and Ocelot have worked with, attacks the Mother Base using Skull Face's XOF forces. The place is destroyed with Multiple explosives placed in areas that cannot be done during the course of a guided tour, and certainly couldn't be placed by a paraplegic stuck in a wheel chair. The next thing crime he supposedly committed was killing Strangelove by stuffing her into the Mammal Pod. I feel really bad for anyone who thinks a Paraplegic man could ever overpower Strangelove, forcing her into and sealing her inside of the fully functioning Mammal Pod. ALL WHILE CIPHER IS WATCHING THEM AND STILL AT LEAST SORT OF NEEDING STRANGELOVE TO UPGRADE THE MAMMAL POD? No, instead, because she refused to let her son be used as test pilot, and refused to rework the Mammal Pod due to her love for The Boss, Cipher killed her, and stuffed her in the Mammal Pod. The next big Crime caused was the Quarantine breech caused by the irradiated. Something that they had no proof of him planning for, nor any proof of malicious intent, because 'somehow' the Diamond Dogs figured out Huey was behind it, they went along with a kangaroo court, blamed him as guilty of all charges, and Miller was going to execute him. Something Venom stopped. Miller was going to have Emmerich tailed "Just in case," something else Venom also stopped. Who is the Key investigator in all these Torture based interrogations? Not the man who is the consummate Torturer later in the series (Ocelot), but Miller, the man who has admitted to lying to Snake before.
So no, what we got in the story, Huey being Ishmael, and there only being one Big Boss, would have been INFINITELY better than what we got. Huey instead would've been the good guy, who saved the man who he thought could stop war, but was framed for literally every crime Miller or Cipher did, and was thrown out to sea. It would have further shown us the Dark Descent Big Boss had as he continued to struggle against his White Whale, The Patriots. Showing this fall to evil as his casting away Huey, Ishmael, the last good man with good intent.
its possible if you have a false Emmerich to match a false Snake