MADDENING (The Big Picture)
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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Bob "MovieBob" Chipman taps into his nearly encyclopedic knowledge of geek culture, informing you about aspects of movies, comics, tv and gaming you never knew existed. Watch the next episode of The Big Picture a week early, only on The Escapist.
MovieBob wonders why people keep buying Madden, and why anyone would want Michael Vick on the cover.
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Yoshi in a madden game? You know? Come to think of it, there never has been a Mario football game...
***** Also there's super mario strikers, while it's technically only football outside of the US i'm still saying it should be counted
not to mention PETA has a problem with people having pets or befriending wild animals (in some cases, it's your pet's fault other animals want to hang around your place)
To me, there is no such thing as an irredeemable human being. Even a murderer and a rapist can redeem himself if he truly seeks to make amends for reasons beyond a desire to avoid punishment.
However, while I'm all for forgiveness and giving people second, third and even fourth chances, there's a difference between offering someone a second chance after his punishment, and outright EXONERATING that man after it. So while I disagree with your reasoning, I agree with your judgement.
Lunacorva
But what if they only pay lip service to redemption? Even if they aren't, where's the line? How much can someone get away with just because of a late in life course correction.
Well, if they're only paying lip service, they're not "Truly seeking to make amends", are they? (I was very intentional with my wording).
As for the line. So long as the intent is genuine, and not just lip service or done to avoid punishment, then there is none. Why should I treat you like the bad guy when you're clearly trying to be good? What does that accomplish?
Lunacorva
Its not about treating people like they're the 'bad guys' when they are trying to make amends. Its more like "How far does someone have to go before any attempt at redemption is meaningless?" Should we be willing to forgive a multi rapist and murderer just because they stop at some point? What can someone honestly do to make amends when they not only hurt people, but take away their very being. When they make it do that multiple people will never see their loved ones again? When they turn people into emotional wrecks incapable of a 'normal' human relationship. Are they supposed to say sorry, make relief payments, promise to never do it again, and just move on? What are they supposed to do to redeem themselves?
Wait? If we're not treating them like bad guys, then what are we doing?
Lunacorva
What I was trying to say is how we treat them is irrelevant. I was more curious as to see if you could in any way justify your stance. But if I must elaborate on how we should treat people after they have done something truly horrible, then yes. We should treat them like they've done something horrible. Not avoid the topic and pretend they have a clean slate. Seriously, what can they actually do to redeem themselves? Even if they try, where is the justice in allowing them to.
Well, he didn’t make the cover. 😊
Your voice counts.
Thanks for posting this!
Anybody else enjoy Bob saying "I wear leather"?
I think the argument was that there is some sort of balance these things are hung in and if a person who does something very wrong, that perhaps if his/her impact on society is great enough that that balance is slightly less tilted towards actual forgiveness or at least tolerance. Bob hardly argued that if good enough you'll get away with it, he said that a person's achievements, if great, do speak in his/her favor when it comes to restoring their good name.
"Can't suffer enough" "not worth cutting slack too"
God damit I'm loving this channel especially this series! keep it up!
@ThaGERG thanks for giving it some fair viewing.
to be fair, Vick has done a very good job of trying to put his life back on the right track, at least better than say, Chris Brown
+Sigmund Fruit Chris Brown doesn't even try to redeem himself. I never heard of Michael Vick, but I'm sure he there are some good qualities to him.
If Vick want's to redeem himself, here is what he has to do: Travel the world and personally shut down every last dog fighting ring. If he does this, then he will be forgiven. People can help him but he has to be leading the charge.
I'm not talking about people, I'm talking about how POPULAR CULTURE (like the madden games and this contest) are happy to sweep any and all transgressions away because he's a footballer and his face sells games. An example should be set that his actions are not acceptable and will not be promoted by Madden, EA or any promoters/sponsors. His case should be an example to others not to screw up that badly because they are NOT immune or special.
I'm not going to argue that what Michael Vick did was detestable, but since he's served his time, stayed out of trouble and has shown remorse for what he's done, there's nothing else I can reasonably ask of him. Chris Brown on the other hand...
Humans are animals. And while you can't, you should get a life sentence for the level of abuse Vick was engaged in. He didn't kill just one, he abused and tortured many.
He never singled out Galaxy 2 in that analogy - he just used it as a pictorial example with Yoshi in it. But even if that wasn't the case, how is that a double standard?
Is the "Madden Curse" still in effect? Becuz everytime somebody's on the cover of a Madden game something bad happens to them. So in a weird way it's a good thing. Look at Michael Vick now, he's a back-up quarterback for the shitty NY Jets. So I guess you can call that karma.
This is another episode where I have to disagree. Don't get me wrong. I'm with Bob on the animal abuse issue and I wouldn't let Vick be in the running either. My diverging thought is about how forgiveness is suppose to work. In a nutshell, you don't forgive someone for their sake so much as you do it for your own. The moment you label another human being as anything less than human is the moment you start becoming a monster too. This is because thoughts of abusing said person and especially the desire to put them through whatever horrific scenario they performed is the EXACT criminal act you detest in the first place. Only now, you'll be the one doing it. Eventually the issue you originally have stops being about justice as you'll literally become what you hate. When you forgive someone in wholehearted earnest, you are stopping yourself from going down this path.
That's my two cents.
Snowfire This guy right here ladies and gentlemen, has got *it*. Well put good sir.
liking something makes you more likely to be bias then being indifferent to it.
how do you know people only want to forgive him because of the sport he plays? even if they do what does that have to do with whether he's redeemed of not?
My point is if he had any true remorse he would be actively fighting dog fighting, not throwing a ball around.
They weren't putting "Michael Vick, the god-awful dog-torturer" on the cover, but rather the "Michael Vick, the professional American football player". On the cover for a football game. Not a dog fight management simulator, but a football game.
Excuse the bar brawlers and felons, punish the gamblers eternally and speak about hypocrisy of others with a straight face. Way to go.
erm... doesn't bob say later in the series he avoids wearing real leather wherever possible? i know he mentioned someone would bring this kinda thing up and make him look like a liar (escapist expo) i'm just curious what he means by this, 'comfortable wearing it if pleather isn't available? needing protective shoes?
Interesting you've referenced what Michael Vick has done.
Kinda reminds me of a video game where you capture and torment animals, that also managed to be a multi-million dollar franchise that doesn't really change things for over a decade.
Matthew Cool I hope you’re not trying to make a serious point. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt because otherwise... 🤤
My thoughts EXACTLY!
I just tried to go vote against Vick and he didn't win. Peyton Hillis ended up winning and Vick came in 2nd.
I don't think Michael Vick should even be allowed to play ball anymore.
because if if you value athletics and culture equally (you'd be wrong to do so, but that's beside the point), then a "visionary artist" as Bob put it has a much bigger impact on his field than Michael Vick has on athletics as a whole, hell he's not even THAT influential a football player. He's a top 16, maybe top 8 on a good day, quarterback in today's NFL. Again I remind you that Bob said "visionary artist" not just some dude who can draw a picture.
Because, to me, Yoshi is not that big a deal. I actually hate Yoshi because of how popular he is among Mario fans, or at least I used to. I also feel like the addition of Yoshi, while fun, didn't really ad that much to the experience of Super Mario Galaxy 2. It did at first, at least before SMG2 started repeating it's own stages to pad the game out some.
Funny, the video jammed at 0:49 when I watched it
it's subjective unfair because bob seems to be of this opinion simply because football and dogs are both things he likes.
in my opinion he's done everything it's reasonable to ask of him.
I feel like his Yoshi comment, joking or not, reveals a double standard that Bob has. Again, I like Bob, but I thought Super Mario Galaxy 2 was INCREDIBLY underwhelming.
I think this is one of my favourites of all Bob's reviews. it's impassioned and hard hitting, but balanced. He gives his opinion, but respects that others have theirs. It's the one I like to come back to and re-watch because it's very enjoyable to hear people getting angry about something they really should be angry about.
paragraph 1: I didn't say it was a comparable wrong
paragraph 2: so you're saying Ex-cons should be denied any employment forever?
paragraph 3: I'm talking to you about how you think he should be treated or what attitude you think you should take to him? not how everybody else is going to treat or think about him. that's why "life is unfair" is a straw-man argument
personally I think acknowledging that people some people disagree with you isn't accuse for posting a subjective unfair rant
255ad It’s his channel, his opinion. It’s called free speech. It’s one of the main issues this country was founded on. To have an opinion is definition of fairness.
I kind of wish Vick did win so when kids ask for this game and the parents see who's on the cover they probably won't buy it for them and ea would see the error of their ways with putting someone like Vick on the cover of their game.
Now, what about that one guy with the weird dreadlocks who didn't stand up during the anthem?
he did say case by case basis
That dead horse has been beaten, baryed, dug up, beaten up again and finly burned to be used as fertilizer.
you can hear if bob is pissed at the end of his videos.
I was never interested in Madden. Sports games aren't my thing.
I've thought of a better way Vick can redeem himself. Lead the charge at exposing PETA as what it is, People for the Efficient Termination of Animals.
you go bob
@karlisown
Just go to the Escapist (look in the description) and watch all of this series, they're posting year old stuff on this channel.
disliking someone for any reason in morally neutral at best.
please address the other two points
"The guy from Splatterhouse" is called Rick Taylor.
you can't make examples of people without being unfair.
I'm not really seeing how this rant is unfair. Sure it's a rant but Bob is telling it like it is. It's his viewpoint, and IMHO it's a good one, considering the person involved was an animal abusing thug who's only apparent excuse for his crimes is that he's good at sports.
If he had been a drug dealer or politician or banker I doubt anyone in the sports world would have defended his stupid, cruel actions.
However recently he has been trying to redeem himself, and that's a good start.
He shouldn't even have been let out of prison for what he did, this is being lenient.
I dunno how the Madden games operate but I do know that other EA sports titles like Fifa do more than just update the roster and the graphics. The Fifa games tweak the mechanics game to game. Now those tweaks aren't very noticeable to someone who isn't a hardcore fan but as far as I'm aware the game doesn't have anything besides hardcore fans so the people who bitch about it probably haven't played it. I used to bitch about the game as well until my friend pointed out the difference in mechanics.
What if--in Transformers 5--the villains clone Hitler, but a dog Transformer kills him
If anyone deserves being disqualified, Vick does. So I agree.
But the fact he likes american football surely is proof that he's more balanced? I don't care for american football, so if I said these things you could easily call me bias. But popular culture seems to suggest that his career makes him more forgiveable for his acts of cruelty, that he is allowed to stand beside decent, honest footballers in the running for box covers and the like. It gives off the message that his behaviour is somehow ok.
But as you say at least he has tried to fix things.
I fail to see how disliking someone for being a greedy, animal abusing jerk is a comparable wrong to the actual crime...which I repeat he committed knowing it was illegal.
'football doesn't owe me anything' is a weak defence. It would be a detestable crime if he were a banker or a priest or a gardener. He committed a crime as a thinking human being.
Also I'm pretty sure saying 'life isn't fair, particularly if you break the law like an idiot' isn't a straw man argument.
You know I think he should be on the cover so he can suffer the Maden Curse
I used to get the yearly sports games because I wanted to have more to put on my Christmas and Birthday lists, lol :P
Now I don't bother unless I feel the upgrades are significant.
"I eat meat, I wear Leather"
"Animal Murder is especially sick"
Yes I recognise that the point elsewhere was about torture, But you need to specifically state what Murder is, (and there is an out, at least from British Law, for that) and why the killing of animals outside of sports is not considered murder. Otherwise you have people arguing on the basis of emotion other than law.
Second. By your country's law, he has served his time. Don't like it, request the law be changed. Otherwise he has served his time by what your country collectively agreed. To then go on like this becomes a witch hunt against the man. At which case , Either you are wrong, or the country is wrong for agreeing that this is the agreed amount of time a person serves for this crime.
Cosmo Serving time is not the same as forgiveness. He paid the legal price, but that’s it. Any other price, he’ll never have have enough of what it takes to pay it.
Cosmo Plus, he did state the difference... food and clothing. Guess you missed that part. And, before you mention it, hunting and fishing, by most definitions, involves said items as well.
5:10 you can't murder an animal by definition
255ad Legally, correct. But it does make you a fucking piece of shit scumbag that I wouldn’t mind watching an animal “not murdering.”
That was one part of his argument. The part pointing out this guy dose not even do anything important so why should we cut him some slack.
Not to say that Roman Polanski should get given too much slack for what he did
Philip Anderson Why do people bring up things that have NOTHINGto do with the issue that’s being discussed? To do so, tells me you don’t understand how to hold an intelligent conversation.
But I thought that really bad things happen to the people who get on the madden game cover?
I live in America and I didn't even know about this (until I watched this)
He should be on the front cover so he can suffer the madden curse.
No. It's not fair to make people an example. You know what's also unfair? Using innocent animals for gambling profit. Having a sport you enjoy being degraded because of one or two peoples greed and stupidity. No one forced Vic to take part in dog fighting. Unlike a dog, he is a thinking adult male capable of making decisions. And if people never forgive him for that despite him trying to fix it then that's too bad. Life is unfair, especially when you made bad decisions.
Did he get the cover ?
DAMNIT MADDEN, THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS!
just because you like football doesn't mean your owed any thing
please stop putting unreasonable and unrealistic demands on this man
255ad Okay, as long as we do the same for drunk drivers.
not everybody buys it every year, people just buy it every few years, and that most likely supports ea.
Go Movie Bob!
my point was that it's more wrong to harm other humans
255ad Not even remotely the issue of the video; however, I’d have to say, people for the most part deserve what they get more often than any animal.
Why is this guy specifically an issue when others apparently did much worse? Violence, etc against humans.
Johnhundred Not the point. Make your own video if you want to talk about something you deem more important.
anyone else would have been, you don't get a life sentence for killing an ANIMAL
I’ve noticed in a lot of these early Escapist videos Bob is really depressed. Was he going through something at the time?
And I was thinking some football players where stupid (for Americans: football = soccer, American "football" = American rugby)...
You do not cut a person who slaughtered 10 million innocent people and ignited a massive war a break. I don't care about his personally tragedy he organized the horrible slaughter of so so many people. He gets no sympathy.
Most dogs (of average intelligence) think on the level of a 2-3 year old, depending on socialization.
I don't 'see animals' when it comes to dogs. (Domesticated dogs, not wolves & foxes here, ppl) They're on the same moral level as toddlers. (Cats have differently wired brains & were domesticated for other 'useful' reasons. While I am not a cat person (Highly-allergic too!) I do see the mistreatment of cats above fish & reptiles. I don't see it as high as humans or dogs)
There is a huge difference from the way cows & pigs & rats & other 'useful' animals are raised compared to human children & dogs because dogs were apart of the 'Clan' structure of human civilization. Not respecting a dog's life or hurting or abusing them so they might as well be dead or eaten by other animals is ABSOLUTELY SICK TWISTED EVIL MURDEROUS ab-normal behavior that I would reason to say is on the same Killer Profile level as being the same as innocent kids.
I Had a West Highland White Terrier (White Scotty) who, while born as the runt of the litter (I picked him as a 4 year old myself for my birthday because I wanted 'the little guy no one else in my family held') was extremely clever for a 18 & 1/2 year old 'Westie'. He could ask for help or food or sense drama or 'tension' in the room but even at the end he was on-par mentally with that of a 4 year old who knew to 'go outside' when he needed to.
What would you do if someone mistreated your mentally 4 year-old brother? I'd break their ****ing Jaw & both their legs & their important arm. Not only for having done it but for moral standing.
(This would apply for other animals above 2 year old intelligence like dolphin, some birds, & apes & monkeys, elephants, probably octopuses...)
Claymann71 I agree with you except dogs are exactly like cats; in fact, they’ve measured as more intelligent in numerous tests while not in any definitive manner.
EA reputation can't get worse. 2013 post Sims Launch lol"
My problem with the vic thing is that he was kicked out the league before he was even convicted while Pittsburgh quarter back just got a couple game suspension for his second run in the law for sexual assault. I value women's safety or dogs safety
one person believes in second chances
best big pic ever
And hence we know right from wrong and know it is wrong to abuse other animals.
They should stick a yoshi in it ....
and this is not saying he was right in what he did. But he did his time and the societal view he'll have for all his life is enough punishment at this point, especially since the people that ctually BUY madden games religously, probably dont care anyway.
Wonder were that one dislike came from.
Ah, NOW who's throwing out straw man arguments ;)
Don't use the vague term 'two wrongs don't make a right' if that's not what you mean. It is not 'wrong' to dislike someone because they willfully abused animals for gambling profit.
Don't put words into my mouth ;) Vic is doing the right thing trying to fix things. But it won't make everyone like him. People are always going to dislike him regardless of how he tries to fix it. Life is unfair like that, so don't take it personally.
Go get Em bob!
one person is Michael Vick
abusing animals is not a good way to live your life.
I Concer
Call of duty (fps) One every year or so
Madden (sports game) one every year
Both re use game mechanics of previous games like there's no frickin tomorrow
Both have SLIGHT differences between previous games
Both cost $60
Get battlefield 3
its not Madden its EA
Look, I love my dogs,and ill be damned if I let someone get away with abusing dogs,I have a pitbull,she's sweet,but he didnt "get away" he did serve his time, as a dog lover, I can accept that, if that isnt enough for some people than it isnt just a matter of dog fighting being bad more so that it is a questioning of our country's sentence of that or our country's prison and rehabilitation system in general.If you dont believe it works, then why are you still paying for it without saying a word?
magicoA I don’t get why you think that because he served time, he should receive any other type of forgiveness. And this has nothing to do with religion btw. Spending time behind bars does automatically make you a better person. He was caught and convicted; he did turn himself in. His crime concerned preying on a living creature weaker than himself for his personal amusement. He’s a bad person and, I guarantee, an unrepentant one.
who got?
people have to live their lives
Out if 200 videos this is this is the one i disagree with... What vick did was not ok at all. But one can argue how barbaric ufc and boxing is. And remeber... Boxing was illegal in it's earlier days... Once again what vick did was sick. But do it make him a sick person? Being evil and doing somthing evil is a big difference. As a comic book fan u should kno this smh
+justice greene UFC and Boxing have the knowing consent of involved participants. Dog fighting does not. They are fundamentally distinct in that regard. Toss in that the dogs are essentially slaves to do this and frequently die as a result and it's really fucking reprehensible.
Does it make him a sick person? It demonstrates that he is one, yes.
As for your bit at the end, that doesn't apply to this context, he knew what he was doing, he chose to do it, ie, this was an instance of an evil person doing evil.
In what circumstances would a non-evil person knowingly torture and murder helpless dogs for gambling money? *Maybe* you could justify it if Vick desperately needed money to feed his family or something, but the guy was an NFL quarterback. He was making plenty of money before he decided to torture and murder helpless dogs.
And are you really going to compare this to boxing and UFC, sports in which human beings *choose* to fight each other?
This bullshit (no pun intended) is the reason I watch college football. And play NCAA Football.
two wrongs don't make a right. football doesn't owe you anything. life is unfair is a straw man argument
no green lighting another twilight movie the worst thing anyone could ever do
In 2013 people still buy Madden.............
i hope tommy wiseau turns Michael Vick and mitt romney into a chicken for defiling dogie
well actually I think its a good thing becuase the madden curse
2013 not buying any EA game
Is it wrong to say if cats or roosters were fighting i wouldn't care. And didn't he get arrested because it was on his property where the dog fights happened and therefore had to know about it thought that weird logic.