Why F1 BANNED the MGU-H
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- 🔧 Thanks to Scarbs for joining us once again! Go follow him on Twitter for F1 Tech news! 👉 / scarbstech
F1 engines are excellent at the moment. Us oldies that love the V10s whinge a bit about the noise, but you can deny that they deliver 1000 horsepower, are extremely efficient with their hybrid systems and do it all without using more fuel than your Corolla (not actually true, but you get my drift).
But, Formula 1 could be banning the MGU-H in the 2026 engine regulations. And that’s a bigger deal than you might initially think.
Its going to ruin the drivability of these engines, and likely make them less efficient. So let me explain whats going on, and we can decide together, whether this is a good or a bad thing.
Lets go.
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Guys, great video. Thank you for giving me a new perspective. But Scott and Scarbs were so quiet today, especially Scott. Please turn up the volume for the next video
Yeah content loudness for this video is -17dB while other normal youtube videos have a -2 to -5dB content loudness.
Yes they are very quiet compared to the ads that blasted my speakers because I had to turn the volume up
The audio is always problematic on this channel for some reason.
I know they've had to have seen the comments about it, there are multiple on almost every video I've seen on the channel. It's been a longstanding issue.
@@anonymousarmadillo6589 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️✨️❤️
This is a fascinating topic - great video! But yes, the audio level is way too low !
So what you're telling me is Seb might suddenly find his old driving style to be dominant in 2026.
Here's hoping he pulls a Raikkonen around then (but slightly more successful)
or Häkkinen ends his sabbatical xD
So he pulls a Michael Schumacher builds up a team like Merc, so prob Audi, that will later dominate. Would be nice but i think Seb will like spending more time with his family and doing more for his causes outside of motorsport.
@@vince4225 Yeah this is almost definitely not gonna be a thing but one can always dream
@@Glyn-Leine Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️✨️❤️
@@alunesh12345 Allah is the only truth, shut up.
I don't like the idea teams losing out on all the R&D put into a system in order to appease an incoming manufacturer
the teams themselves are happy with it so what makes you so special
The mguH was forced on teams by the FIA... it’s incredibly inefficient and teams have wanted it gone for years for exactly that reason
@@mikko3 lol no, because the 2014-current engine is more relevant in modern technologies
@@gavcom4060 literally Scott said in the video that no road car uses the mgu-h. But if we want to go deeper into that, this is one of the biggest lies about the 2014 engines. The idea FIA presented was that they wanted a new engine that would appeal to new manufacturers because F1 was in a bad place after so many engine manufacturers left the sport after the 2008 market crash. But in reality, the argument it's rubbish because these are the most complicated, expensive, hard to develop engines in F1 history. As a new entrant it would take years to reach a somewhat equal development with the almost established manufacturers who are already present in F1. Why would anyone commit to that?
But the real reason why this engine was introduced was because the big teams wanted it. Mercedes and Ferrari. If anything, those engine regulations showed the sad state of the sport where the big teams now had the say on where F1 should be going. And it worked great for them. Mercedes and Ferrari started dominating the sport after they were nowhere on par with Red Bull-Renault in the late V8 era. And as a consequence of these expensive engines, Cosworth left F1. Cosworth, who supplied F1 teams since the 60's and was the backbone of small F1 teams, left because they were small and simply had no money to compete against the giants.
The 2014 regs changes were a mistake, probably the biggest mistake in F1 history. It completely prevented small engine manufacturers to enter F1, hell, even the big ones didnt come either (only Honda came in, but they had a history with F1 already), the big teams started to have a monopoly on the grid and these engines just aren't road relevant at all. No one, absolutely no road car uses the F1's V6 turbo hybrid concept.
@@apophisRO Mercedes? Hello?
Along with the MGU-H, variable trumpets have been banned which will affect the throttle response and entire power curve.
I think F1 like the rest of the world are relying on the electric power train to solve everything.
What they don’t realize is if we wanted an all electric motorsport we’d watch Formula E.
Making the cars harder to drive by limiting them is the wrong direction for F1.
I’d watch formula e if it didn’t feel so gimmicky.
so true MGU-H is a truly incredible technology
yes and no.
Formula E contributes very little to electric car development as its mostly off the shelf roadcar components. Its mostly a marketing and advertising gimmick. And part of that brand is cheap and cheerful, hence why they're able to go into these developing countries' cities. Different market segment too.
Formula 1 have and will always be a flagship sport. Even if F1 does go all electric, it will be 1000+hp 350kph electric prototypes racing in premier tracks and destinations while attracting (and spending) billions.
I would even argue that the E in Formula E actually can stand for Economy. Electric single spec-chassis single seaters adds to this "economy" brand since the cost to manufacture and maintain one is considerably lower than even junior single seaters from the lack of moving and explodey bits.
So it's just FIA being FIA
@@wiryantirta Formula E is also E-volving ;) Yes, it was all single-spec and off-the-shelf in the beginning to keep entry cost low and promote competitive racing to attract fans (=money to sustain the series), but with Gen2 they already left the design of engines and power trains to the teams while keeping the same battery, which helped a lot in testing out the most efficient power train setups. Hopefully they will keep opening up other parts of the car for individual design in the future (e.g. limit battery weight and/or dimensions but not capacity). Audi and Merc already left the series to focus on F1 because they felt they had achieved their R&D goals and it wasn't beneficial anymore for them, so the message to Formula E management was pretty clear.
The sound volume in this video is extremely low.
Right?
Turn the volume up then 🙄
@@escos0410 It's maxed but it's still too low.
Ironically enough, yes the sound in this video is too low
@@andredeketeleastutecomplexdeaf
I am curious to see how drivers will adapt their driving styles according to the new engines,
Someone might take inspiration from Senna's Throttle blipping technique to spool up the Turbo and make it drivable
Blipping the throttle like Senna used to do would also used a lot of extra fuel in much the same way that traditional anti lag systems do, so I don't think anyone would bother doing that
@@Fixer29 I think such a technique might be used situationally, when fighting for position but not for average lap. If that would be the case we might see cars running out of fuel more often..
With a hybrid system they can program the battery to release its energy when the turbo is lagging behind
they would shred the tyres
It won´t be necessary. The engines will be detuned so smaller turbos and no lagg (fuel flow will be reduced a lot by the rules. The engines lose a third of their power). This will be added in electric power.
I feel like it's a bad thing, a load of energy not being recovered from the exhaust gas stream.
Mercedes did manage to get 50% thermal efficiency with the current arrangement (on the Dyno), wonder if it's possible to go further.
One thing they don't tell you is that in the rules, they can extract energy directly from the MGU-H and run it straight to the the MGU-K without it counting towards the Harvesting cap.
I think bcoz mgu h innovation is peaked.
Let's focus on optimising with different design implementations as well.
F1 is an Engineering sport as well.
Strange how much of an influence Porsche has as a company that doesn't even race in F1 yet.
Right?
isnt it cause f1 want to have more Power unit suppliers ? also is not just Porsche, Audi Aswell, r?
Porsche is in f1 in more ways then just a car...
same happed with mercades. turbo hybrids were originally planned to be v4, only for them to be released as v6’s that were based on merc technology.
@@tuttutteddy8889 Incorrect. Originally the engines were to be inline 4s, and part of that was to appease Volkswagen-Audi Group (VAG), who were participants in developing the rules for a while. When they dropped out there was a push from Ferrari and others for a V6. I believe Newey was in favour of the V6 as it integrates into the chassis better.
well their big head liner of "more sustainable" doesn't make sense when they get rid of a technology that recovers so much energy
FIA is trying to sustain stupid decisions.
probably not a technology many manufacturers are willing to adopt due to excessive complexity. only manufacturer that has done so is mercedes
F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport and the FIA just keeps taking away which I strongly disagree with
yup same
If they hadn't banned it then no new power unit manufacturers would ever join F1. Forcing someone to use vast amounts of money on R&D of what is essentially a useless device outside of F1 isn't exactly attractive to potential newcomers.
@@bergur93 porsche?
F1 was the Pinnacle of Motorsport...
@@bergur93 it makes engines much more efficient with more power and produce less co2. It objectively improves the sport and removing it makes the cars less powerful and less energy efficient.
Madness, if the whole poiny of modern regs is to make racing as efficient as possible why would ban this genius bit of engineering.
The whole 'lack of road car applicability' is also daft, there are so many aspects of an F1 car that are not remotely applicable to road cars.
The development costs have already been applied, thowing away after its implemented and working reliably is a huge waste of money.
Definitely take your point but they were looking fir ways of making things more affordable. The MGUH has also been the prime failure point since 2014. Because the unit essentially acts as a brake on the turbine shaft, when.it dies fail it almost always takes the turbo with it and very often takes the engine too.
You're commenting as if the engineers have just exhausted all their ideas and nothing new can be created after MGU-H. 😀 Trust me they will find something to recoup the losses. This is just to push them away from a direction that has nothing to do with non-racing cars.
Yes, the development costs have already been applied but only for the teams that are currently in F1. Teams that want to join are thus interested in it being removed.
F1 has banned a lot of ingenious stuff over the years... Williams was the best with their adaptive suspension and CVT. Those were both really useful things for production cars too! But nope. Banned. Same with ABS. They're stifling the power engineers have. They clearly stated they care more about the driver being a great driver than the engineers being able to make a great car, and want to keep racing as close as possible too. Funnily enough, the companies with the most money win now... (pssst, its because the engineers get more money for development). If they want development, let all the teams go crazy with systems such as ABS, adaptive suspension, regenerative braking, hybrid, electric, but implement a cost limit. If they want close racing, then they might as well just supply stock cars to every team. These restrictions are _really_ annoying.
@@AHSEN. Yeah, most of those innovations were banned because theyre too expensive, so it would only make sense to unban them all now that we have a budget cap. Teams should decide for themselves what idea is worth spending money on.
The thing that was not mentioned here is that the kinetic recovery unit is getting a significant size and energy input and output increase next year as well, meaning that the problem of generating torque coming out of a corner moves from ICE + Turbo to primarily the electric motor sitting on crank. Meaning that you can shape the torque curve from the torque generated by this electric motor against the torque coming from ICE, meaning that you can still have a predictable torque curve coming off a corner. Porsche did this effectively in the 919.
Aww man I feel really bad for Seb retiring now. The way you have to take on a corner with these new engines will be exactly to his liking.
Why is the video so quiet ?
Aren't they increasing the capacity of the batteries, such that they will give a higher portion of available power? If so, wont the loss of the H mean they have difficulty fully recharging?
No, the battery capacity is going to stay the same, at 4 kWh. But the maximum harvesting capacity of the MGU-K is going to rise, from 120 bhp to 325 bhp, or to put it into perspective to 9 kWh. So the drivers will have to use a lot of their gained braking energy has to be deployed almost immediately, as they would waste a lot of energy otherwise.
The loss of the electrical regeneration of the MGU-H‘s loss is therefore balanced by the increased power of the MGU-K. Nonetheless there is an issue that Scarbs and Scott explained. The turbo is activated a few seconds after the initial deployment of the throttle, because it needs a certain pressure of the exhaust gases in order to work. The turbo is responsible for a lot of power, so the car will be very unpredictable exiting the corners. There will be wheelspin, oversteer and a massive loss in terms of lap time. The MGU-H redeploys some energy into the turbo, spins it up. It helps the engine be more predictable and a lot smoother, and by with the loss of that it will be far more difficult to drive flawless laps. It either provides better racing, or divides the field massively
Yep, another stupid change, now cars will need 2-3 laps for a full charge... also when deploying it is more important so more "battery management" from the drivers
@@cosminlesutan3574 Er, no. The MGU-K can now regenerate 9 kWh over the course of a lap. The battery can only store 4. So it will take the drivers half a lap to restore the battery
@@lukasgerhardstiel164 Now they harness only from braking... please tell me you don't believe they can charge it on track without hard braking zones... Even now, with the H there, they need 1 harnest lap
@@cosminlesutan3574 You know that most of the energy is already generated by the MGU-K. Read my comment above so you will have a more detailed description of how the MGU-H‘s ban will affect the car. And by giving the MGU-K more peak energy to regenerate (9kWh/lap) you will recharge the battery a lot faster, and therefore have to use a lot more over the course of a lap, as the battery can only store 4kWh. And you don’t necessarily need a lot of heavy breaking zones. You will gain enough energy from all breaking zones combined. At the moment, a lot of the MGU-K‘s potential is wasted. Believe me, the engineers developing the new regulations will surely have thought about that. This problem would also occur in the LMP2 and the WEC (Endurance), where a hybrid engine with an MGU-K and no MGU-H is used. And there it does not exist at all
Why ban? Make it optional, maybe with lowered weight, bigger engine,...
It could be great to see different systems on different tracks having other strengths
Exactly. With the introduction of the budget cap, I think we should start to see more freedom in how that money is spent. The costs will be controlled by the budget cap already.
Check the rules... the engines are more "standard" than ever for 2026... almost everything in the ICU is locked for development ...
@@cosminlesutan3574 those rules are afaik not finalized yet. And it’s not illegal to have an opinion on them right?
It has always been optional but youd lose an insane amount of performance by not having it without any compensation...
"Why the FIA Banned Genius"
There's the title of everything.
4:05 The clip you showed is the 'blow-off valve'. This is on the intake just before the throttle body. Not the wastegate, big difference! :D Apart from that, good work. BOVs are designed to stop the turbo being damage when you smash the throttle plate shut with huge amounts of air having nowhere to go.
To me it sounded like turbo flutter. The escaping overpressure in the compressor, aka compressor surge. Some racers don't care about the life length of the turbo and don't bother with BO. BOs gives just off one "chuuu" sound, while flutter many "chuchuchuchu", just like in the clip. But you are correct that it's not a wastegate.
Yeah that is not a waste gate it's a compressor stall
Nope, the sound was definitely the blow-off valve. One setup for track work not drag work so it opens in each pulse of back pressure from the throttle plate.
@@Silverhks nope thats compressor surge.
Yeah, if you wanna hear some nice waste gate bangs, go watch F2 :)
Will turbolag bring back unique driving styles in 2026?
Senna looking around the corner when the cars will lag
I was wondering why they would just ban such an innovative technology like the MGU-H. Hopefully this video will give me an answer
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁
Because it's expensive, fragile, and worthless to industry. Nobody adopted it for a reason
@@alunesh12345 how do you know this to be true, do you have some sort of way to communicate with any type of deity? Don't say the Bible, that has been changed from the original version many times based on the interpretation of the person who rewrote it.
@@btoiscool your'e right
I've never fully understood the way the MGUH works until now, thank you. It's a brilliant invention and exactly what F1 should be all about. Shame.
Really not keen on this - I can't see why mgu-H systems can't be relevant to other forms of motorsport ,even if it's not worth putting into road vehicles. I'd rather see the tech being used more widely so there's more return on investment for the research.
I have a really bad feeling that these regs might F1 way slow or maybe the racing will be bad
And i don't understand why the heck Porsche doesn't want mgu-h
@@blazeyt843 they don’t want mgu h because it’s very expensive to develop, which would put them at a disadvantage compared to the established manufacturers, and would mean they will need several seasons at least before they’re competitive (see Honda).
Most engine manufacturers don’t want to deal with the R&D costs of something that’s irrelevant to their main product line.
@@ASJC27 The Porsche 919 had a MGU-H so they won't have any problems building one. The issue is it's a huge money sink for no value or relevance to road cars.
@@Alan-ww8vi that doesn’t mean their (now old) system from a different series is immediately compatible with f1 in anything but the basic concept. It was reported that when Honda joined their biggest deficit was in the mgu h, and it took them a long time to catch up. I doubt Porsche could level the field in under three seasons, especially with a budget cap and engine development restrictions.
I'm dark that this is banned, I'd hoped that hybrids and range extenders would use this to reduce exhaust temps and noise.
Aww cmon we’ll get some sick turbo sounds “stututu’s” in F1 again!
The turbo lag will feel like in a 1976 Porsche 911 😎
I'm torn now, I do want the budgets lowered for the teams to manage it and create closer racing, but at the same point maybe the MGU-H should have just become a standardized part. I'm sure the big 3 wouldn't have liked that to work with their specific packaging though.
Make the MGU-H of all current manufacturers a spec part, so any new team (and any current) could buy any of those for the same price. Would anyone allow to keep their existing design, but would not requiring inventing an own MGU-H for new entries.
As Indy car still had customized aero kits, there was a spec aero kit, but they also had a rule, that the customized kits could be bought by other teams at a fixed price.
Before watching this video, my opinion was the same that it should be a spec part but now I understand better that it is firmly dependent on the engine/turbo. Making it a spec part would massively favour one of the teams and then all the engines would homilagate to the same design.
It can’t be standardized LOL…because it different between the team engine spec
@@justmy-profilename Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️✨️❤️
Lower the budgets an homologate enough and we'll end up with NASCAR.
Congrats on an amazing drive at Donnington today. 👏
Driver 61 proving that not only can he talk about race cars, he can drive a race car pretty well too!
This drives me to the Senna driving style...
The way he used the accelerator on the corners to reduce the turbo lag.
None of the F1 drivers today drove old F1 turbo engines.
It’s such a shame to lose this. If the next set of engines are going to burn fuel making them less efficient is ridiculous. There is no long term future in petrol engines and saying they are eco friendly because it uses sustainable fuel if just a marketing exercise and no real world use. Full electric is not the answer at the moment but a backwards steps with tech is silly.
sustainable fuel is the only realistic future for the real world...
But as shown in the video it has no application in real world car.
And we don't really need to try and reduce the amount of fuel F1 cars use just for using less fuel when racing.
As the amount of fuel that F1 cars use over a season is extremely little relative to the total amount of CO2 produced due to F1 activities (such as transport) the total of CO2 produced due to fuel being burned during races is 0.3 % of all CO2 produced in F1. It's the same as a plane uses in a single 6 hour flight.
Diesel engines have variable geometry in Turbochargers, some Petrolengines have it too but because of heat it’s very expensive. Variable geometry varies the opening so the turbolag almost dissapears or makes the turbo spool up way faster.
Like so many great ideas, this is banned in F1.
As a rule of thumb, if it has "variable" in the name it's explicitly banned in F1: variable geometry turbos, variable valve lift and timing, variable intake geometry, electronic brake force distribution, abs, traction control... All banned
you think senna's stomping throttle mid corner would work with the newer engines then?
Well I thought he did to bring the engine in power band .
No the turbo lag will still be present... early foot on the throttle wouldn't get the turbo to work until it acquires sufficient rpm
@@T0NYMANUEL but being earlier on throttle means the turbo reaches max rpm sooner (if it takes 3 seconds to speed up the turbo, by being on throttle 2 seconds earlier you only need 1 second to reach max rpm in the acceleration zone)
@@adamn7125 nah mate. No matter how early u apply the throttle the lag will still be present in lower rpm range. Otherwise we would need antilag mechanisms.
Especially since hes applying and lifting again it certainly wouldn't work. Senna was able to take advantage of his style because the naturally aspirated engines didn't have any lag. In order for it to work he would have to apply the throttle and hold. Sennas style of punching the throttle would just lead to more delay
Thank you for covering this! I've been thinking that it's a crazy idea to get rid of it. They've already been developed and _should_ be a transferable technology to road cars. Every bit of "escaping" energy should caught and used to recharge the batteries. So much for improving emissions, eh Porsche?
Mass flow on road cars is way to low to justify use of an MGU-H, plus they very rarely get to a point where the turbo is actually creating too much boost, you are almost never on full throttle (compared to a racing car) ie if you wanted to use this on a road car you would actually make the power unit less efficient. If I remember correctly Porsche did actually use something similar in LMP1 (919) i think, though without the ability to spin up the turbo, it was just a turbine and a generator i think. Scania was as far as i can remember the only manufacturer to have the intent to use a similar design on the road, it would've been used for lorries though.
@@OptimusCrime9900 Exactly, this find usage only on track... On roads you never use full power, only over taking but then, cars doesn't have such powerful turbos to have excess power... When 99% of all cars on the road aren't made for speed and power this is useless for normal people...
@@OptimusCrime9900 actually I see application for trucks, haulers and boats. Yes, for passenger cars it is maybe useless, but most of pollution and energy waist comes not from passenger cars anyway.
@@OptimusCrime9900 Engineers design the size of a turbocharger with respect to the whole power train and the expected driving profile. If they put just a turbo in a short range commuter car, this will be a small turbo that's easy to spin up but is less efficient than a larger one with more power (waste gate opens long before peak power).
Same commuter application, first add a MGU-K, as regenerative braking is important with frequently varying speeds, and without it a lot of the MGU-H potential would be wasted, too. With a good MGU-K, one can downsize the ICE (in itself an efficiency boost) without losing peak power for acceleration (if the battery is charged). With an additional MGU-H a relatively larger turbo would be used, which is easier to spool up, and can often be run near to full ICE-throttle (different from max. combined power).
For an application of long distance cruising, a powerful MGU-K is less important (if it's not frequently mountain up and down), but a larger ICE and turbocharger would be chosen.
The reason it's not done, it's more expensive if only building costs for cars is accounted for. If taxation would just add a fraction of the cost, that adapting to men-made climate change brings, big car manufacturers wouldn't build anything but efficient hybrid cars and fully electric.
A short distance commuter car would be efficient with a very small engine (at most 2 cylinders!), and turbo+MGU-H that are relatively large (but not large in about terms), and a relatively large high voltage battery (at very least 5 kWh, 10 - 15 kWh if commuting longer distances) to increase the use of plug-in charging.
For longer distances without EV-fast-charging options, first of all, a relatively even larger turbo and MGU-H would be chosen, as the MGU-K couldn't be used much to recharge the battery. If it's any other country than Germany with unlimited motorway topspeed, a significantly larger ICE would neither be necessary nor efficient for the application (for acceleration there's still the MGU-K).
But Audi and Porsche design cars for roads with unlimited topspeed, for people that either live in Germany and/or do not respect speed-limits. And a few ones, that actually just race them on track (small niche market).
If only those guys who watch motor racing and then think they have to try it themselves in public, would do the same when watching non-motor sports, wow would there be many more sporty people...
@@inevespace Inside the US, the largest fraction in energy-use for transportation are light trucks (30 %, including privately used pick-ups and CUV / super-size SUV), with more traditional passenger cars roughly the same share (23 %), as other trucks (24 %). Light trucks are more similar to commuter road cars as to heavy long distance trucks (where the best replacement would anyway be increased spending for long distance freight rail).
You have a good point with boats, cargo ships mostly burn crude oil, are inefficient and have absolutely dirty (even toxic) exhaust. But hey, the seas are on another planet anyway, aren't they? Why else would mankind pollute and exploit them as if there would be no consequences...?
Quoted shares are from eia.gov, and domestic US figures (international cargo out of sight out of concern).
Great video! Just a few disclaimers though:
1. The RPM when a turbo spools up is actually termed the turbo threshold, as ISN'T turbo lag. Turbo lag is how much time a turbocharger takes to spool up WHILE it's in its threshold.
2. Just to make this clear: a compressor isn't a turbine. A turbine converts fluid movement into rotational movement, whereas compressors work exactly the opposite, i.e. they turn their rotational movement into fluid movement via compression.
3. The waste gate doesn't actually directly release boost, that's the blow-off valve's job. The waste gate acts like a shortcut trapdoor for the exhaust gases to divert them from the turbine wheel. This prevents the gases from propelling the turbine shaft even more, thus limiting boost.
4. The flutter you can hear only occurs if no blow-off valve is installed, and comes from the excessive pressure inside the intake manifold. When the throttle plate is closed, intake manifold pressures rise, and the compressed air needs somewhere to go. It goes out via the compressor side of the turbo, and the blades of the compressor wheel essentially chop up the air pulses, thus making that distinct sound. Blow-off valves prevent this from happening by releasing the pressurized air from the intake manifold, and that makes the hissing sound that modified Subarus make. It doesn't come from the waste gate, nor from all turbocharged vehicles.
So then... would an adapted version of senna's driving style work on 2026 cars then?
F1: We are all about going green
MGU-H: Hi, I’m free energy
F1: GTFO
Yeah, they’re liars.
FIA: We want to incentivize creativity! thinking outside the box! we want to improve the sport!
Teams: cool! we came up with a bunch of clever ideas!
FIA: nope, banned!
That's the thing.. Liberty is pushing more and more for standardize cars like in the USA... they want a show, not a competition... just look how restrictive the development for the new ICU is. I wonder if the manufacturers how much will manufacturers take before saying its not worth it ... Also, why is RB/Porsche getting the extra money... or any of the entering teams since the engines have nothing in common with the current ones (maybe being v6:))))
Lord Affalterbach with a 🌳, surprisingly wow sponsor.
As others pointed out immediately when the news broke, wouldn't the teams just torque fill with the mgu-k? Unless there is some minimum velocity before deployment can start, there is no reason this wouldn't be done.
Would that be done by making the mgu-k bigger? Saw a video week or so ago of someone talking about this before it was confirmed and he speculated that the regs would allow for a bigger mgu-k I believe.
Good point, I wonder if the mguk would charge the battery enough to do that over an entire race tho
@@nicholassansone670 The mgu-k is getting more powerful, which could mean more regen from the rear, though not enough to make up the difference.
One issue is that the regen has to be balanced with the brakes, as it essentially acts as a secondary rear brake. The rear brakes are already much smaller than the fronts, and we could see them getting even smaller, unless the regen isn't increasing.
All this is to say, I think the benefit of smoothing out the throttle response is worth the hit to battery charge, especially when considering it'll help the drivers not slip the rears when getting wheelspin, as that causes overheating, causing even more slip, etc.
@@JuMooly I just wish they were bringing back the V10s or even V8s again. Making these cars more relevant to road cars is killing the sport
@@nicholassansone670 Unfortunately it's the manufacturers themselves that want more road relevant tech, Renault were threatening to pull out entirely back in the v8 days because they could not justify the expenditure, unless they got more electrification and efficiency. Honda recently "pulled out" as they wanted to shift more resources into their road car manufacturing side, as F1 was not in alignment with their development path. Let's wait and see, part of the reason cars are a bit muffled is because of the mgu-h, so I imagine the sound will be quite different when the new regs come around.
I know it's impossible, but I really hope they reconsider the regulations, esp removal of the MGU-H. Because I thought all this time that F1 (and Ive been bragging this to people who are not fans) was a platform for new innovations. But idk about this.
Since they introduced the budget cap that side of the sport sadly becoming less of a priority
You think they'll just stop innovating now? Come on that's just ridiculous.
Eh, it happens with every new thing. Hell even Aston martin this year got the axe. Somebody will come up with something else
I never really understood the need for both electric and turbo in a race package. Electric provides torque at the low end while the ICU takes the load at the high end. The turbo also provides low end torque power. I don't see a huge lag from the turbo as the stronger electric components of the 2026 regs will cover it up.
On another note, if F1 is really letting a non-current engine supplier dictate policy, they are going to get themselves into trouble.
Its not a necessity. Its all about PR and the current socioeconomic environment.
The exhaust of a turbo is high pressurized air, so a lot of energy can be harvested from it. There's no "need" to use the MGU-H, but there's also no need for the turbocharger and the ICE (F-E) or the MGU-K. The current engine regs are just a very efficient solution, the 2026 ones without it not so much...
the bigger issue will be efficiency. They take away the MGUH and give the teams much less fuel. They cant magically get much more efficiency out of these engines. So they will most of the time not be able to run the electric motors even close to full power. More like 20% power on average with the energy that they have for a race.
@@timonxDlol yup and my gut tells me it will be used with drs to pass. Im really skeptical about the new pu regs. I just dont see any of it as a step in the right direction
@@GonzoDonzo ofc it will be used like that. But I just don´t see how the cars can´t become much slower. The petrol engine goes down to 550-600hp, the electric engine almost 500hp, but there is less electric energy available for it. So most of the time the car will run with the much worse petrol engine. Just doesn´t make sense to me.
Scott. There are free tools to check the audio level of your content before uploading. What’s happened in this video is that some elements - music at the end, for example - automatically reduce the quieter elements, unfortunately your dialogue, to meet the -14LUFS maximum spec.
Well cheaper engines will probably outweight the loss of mgu-h that sadly is not applicable to road cars
@Ching Chong but hybrid technology is used in road cars
Everything else in this world is devolving so F1 might as well join them.
@@mikko3That’s your minority opinion.
If I'm not mistaken, Senna had a genius technique to deal with the turbo lag. He would feather the throttle while cornering to keep the turbo spinning more and boost earlier. The other drivers observed it but found it an odd style when they would hear the revs feathering.
but that results in high fuel usage, & with current regulation, that trick is out of the window!
@@theouts1der True. In the end though, the engineers, set up, fuel load, power unit efficiency, etc will determine if the driver can use this technique in order to gain a driving advantage or not.
@@bleuflash i am excited for 2026, will get to see some new driving style and competition, & the innovative shit they will come up with...finger crossed mate!
& i hope some loud noises will be back since mgu-h is not there! (i heard)
Just a heads up, Established Titles are being generally confirmed as a scam so it may be prudent to review your arrangement with them.
So F1 is going to be less exciting from 2026
So who won the f1 drive with alpine? 👀
That news is coming soon...
3:30 «[F1 wants to] make the cars less drivable»
Well, who would have thought.
As for the suposed cost - they could just force everyone to use a standardized MGU-H design.
They can use the MGUK motor to add power exiting a turn and before the turbo comes up to speed and when the turbo comes up to speed and you become traction limited you can then use the MGUK to siphon the excess power and then shove that into the battery! In essence, you use the MGUK motor to do the job of the MGUH. In fact, I think we might see even larger turbos in use as that increases the number of seconds per lap that you are traction limited and therefore are able to store energy into the battery.
Never thought that they put oversized turbos to optimise regen....wow!!!
Trailing throttle might help with turbo lag to an extend so it will become more driver
Driving like Senna?
@정준영 yeah sort of except these cars are a lot more precise as far as inputs by the driver so it would definitely create a unique driving style. Maybe something like Hamilton mixed with Senna.
The fuel flow is being reduced as well. Maybe 400kW from the ICE.
With the rules they are only allowed to store 4MJ of energy in the battery, though they can recover 9MJ and deployment is not limited.
4MJ at the new MGUK power of 350kW is ~11.4s, That will get you half way from T16 to the start/finish line at Baku.
bigger mgu-k = more energy can be harvested at rear axle = further smaller rear brakes.
if they somehow hit the 9MJ limit before last corner, would they just plow straight out of track? 😅
or is there some kind of device like a resistor/capacitor to store excess energy? 🤔
What happened with the audio? It was super quiet and when i got an ad i almost died because i had the volume turned way up😂
Makes no sense to remove this technology... bs
its just too expensive and complicated for the VW Group
So they should keep building golfs with faked emission protocols...do what you are good at...
@@supmikpaddleboarding5871
as he said in the video they stick to what they know best and thats the MGU-K from WEC.
VW dont want to put effort and money into something new for the company where everybody else in F1 is years ahead in R&D.
@@thesunnynationg but then you have to catch up as it works in any other sport.its not that in skiining or surfing or Mountainbiking they change the rules just so that new competitors can come in! It's simple,you are good enough or you don't!but since liberty media took over f1 is becoming ridiculous!!!
@@thesunnynationg no,will not be too expensive to vw Group
I like how you have sponsors I haven't seen before. It's more interesting than the 1000th skillshare or vpn ad!
Excellent video. There is a typo @10:22 (Ferarri should read Ferrari).
MGU-K will be used to address the drivability. That initial bit of power during turbo-lag will be provided by the MGU-K. I am pretty sure this is what almost all the teams will be implementing.
Exactly, its not that big of a deal.
If Porche can't deal with the current regulations, good! That keeps another lower tier supplier out of F1. Changes should advance the technology, not regress it.
Why don’t they focus their eco-friendly efforts on the logistics and transport of f1 which surely has a much bigger environmental impact than the cars themselves. That way we could still enjoy those iconic engine sounds
One can t evolve without the other, i don t get people who watch motorsport for the sound, evolve please
While I agree, the logistical side needs to change. F1 does feed the tech for road cars so they may as well push them into creating more eco engines
Thanks for the vid, just noticed the volume was low did you did you have issues
I don't know, surely if the MGU-H were standard components then engines wouldn't be as expensive, right?
I was so disappointed when I heard about the new PU regs. The MGUH is a genius device and I don’t see why it couldn’t be applied to road cars in the future but in all honesty who cares if formula one isn’t relevant to road cars? There’s loads of other racing series designed around road cars. I watch F1 specifically because they are NOT road cars and it’s a shame that 2 potential constructors are having such a major influence on the new regs. I can’t imagine a single driver who is excited about the possibility of driving with massive turbo lag. I’m thinking Ayrton Senna blipping the throttle around each corner just to keep the turbo spinning…..
Just look at what Merc did with there C43. They claim it has F1 technology, but other than a tiny motor that reduces turbo lag, which shouldn't exist in the first place had they used the twin turbo V6, it does nothing. Still think it's applicable to the road car? This isolation means all the development it takes to make the MGU-H is simply wasted. It's a waste of energy and it's a waste of human resources.
This is a great explanation of the MGU-H. Scarb’s comment about the excess turbo-energy being “waste” is very apposite. Surely turning that “waste” into useable energy is the whole point? Many ICE road cars have turbos including Porsche and Audi. Could OEMs really not develop a relatively cheap MGU-H equivalent in the transition to full electrification?
Outstanding video guys, but I was thinking with the more turbo lag could we see a driving similar to Senna to compensate the lag?
Aaah removing away technology that clearly differentiates F1 from others, what a great move
I hope you are aware that established titles is a complete scam.
And then they say that the electric side of the drivetrain is going to be way and way more powerful... The engines will loose power, and the electric motor gains it, supposedly reaching 150bhp more than the current generation in total... Where the hell do they expect all this energy will be coming from. The cars will use loads more electricity and they will lose a major player in the regeneration of it. Weren't they also going to make the cars lighter? So no bigger battery to hold that extra energy? Well now they are just creating problems instead of solving them aren't they? Can they not just design their own MGU-H that every engine manufacturer has to incorporate into their system so it will cost less than a tenth of what it costs now and then they aren't pushing the sport into heavier and slower...
With the 2022 changes I thought they had a good balance of increasing the quality of the sport, be more environmentally friendly and bringing cost down, but now they are basically taking aim at the quality of the sport in my opinion. And THAT should always come first.
This channel is the best in its field. Thank you guys
Where sound
At some point the central soviet planners in the FIA will just ban the whole car.
Would save money and improve safety.
Health and safety, non-offencivenes and saving money is the whole point of F1 today.
@@petrolheadJJ Yes the get woke go broke philosophy.
Great videos, had to turn up volume to 100% as it's so quiet lol
I like how when you start talking about driver mistakes in the end Leclerc is on the screen, good one
cant hear anything bro
Why do I pay for RUclips Premium so I don’t have to see commercials, but now all the channels I subscribe to make me sit through an advertisement of something they’re promoting?
It is correct calling it mguh, the temperature is less after the turbo as the pressure is less.
If there were no other changes to the engine specs, then this would ring true. However, yOu can see the emphasis on electrical power in the new regs with a massive increase in the electrical peak power. The way the teams deliver the electrical power (likely much more in the slow speed) will negate the issues suffered from turbo lag. Not a step backwards for the PUs, just sideways
One of my fav noises ever is a waste gate chattering, I had one on my old Saab 2.3t SE my turbo and cooling was changed with so much boost, was the best thing i have owned. So sad i had to get rid.
Mate what a brilliant first stint you drove in that praga. awesome to watch
I bought a 10x10 and two 1x1 plots next to yours. One for my recently passed wife, one for both of us and the last for me. Thanks as this was a great way to keep my wife's memory and our 32 years together a memory forever.
This makes me think of your video on Senna's driving style, where he blipped the throttle through the corners to keep the turbo spinning. Wonder if the removal of the MGU-H will bring that back.
Possible, however he had a really dangerous driving style that would immediately cause a loss of points due to FIA rules.
Nice video. Just a heads up that it is on the quiet side though.
Why is this so quiet? I had to turn the volume way up and nearly had a heart attack when the commercials kicked in. 😬
I guess with this, the Senna trick could make a come back. What Senna did with the throttle is quite amazing. It's quite ridiculous what he did with the throttle. He essentially performed a very rapid and clever "trial and error" to determine when to apply the gas again. He accelerates to the maximum and continuously pokes the gas pedal softly to assess the grip. He continues prodding the throttle when it's too early. Once his senses give him a couple of green lights in a row that tell him the grip is there, he buries it. He had a wizard-level traction control system set up within him. Genius, right? Also, that poking of the throttle kept the turbo spooled up, essentially making the car ready to go out of the corner with max power. Senna was able to make the car faster and more stable by doing this because he was able to spool up the turbos before the exit and get a faster, more consistent boost and smoother power delivery. Senna also used the heel and toe technique to keep the revs up, essentially making more power and again keeping the turbo spooled up. Also, with the current regulations (2014 and 2022), this technique essentially became obsolete as the car always has good levels of grip in and out of the corners since the MGU-H always keeps the turbo spooled up and the battery charged for the MGU-K to spin the crankshaft along with the engine itself, essentially developing loads of power and grip as the car exits the corner. This change is good I believe as it'll make F1 much more competitive and challenging for the drivers. It will also increase the number of teams participating in F1 due to the reduced costs nd complexity of the engines.
Edit: Do watch these videos to get a hang of what I mean to say...
ruclips.net/video/JUVkVB3SUf4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/N4kcLyYhThE/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/LId5SKxljqs/видео.html
Without the electric motor used as a anti lag, I wonder if they used the hybrid system to help acceleration until the turbo kicks in? Future cars need a front generator to capture more regen but can't use for acceleration tho
good video, but the audio is so quiet
sure, it's fine inside with no background noise, but try listening to it anywhere else...
3:55 Actually the wastegate doesn't release boost but exhaust gasses, and it's not what we hear there. You might be mixing it up with the blow-off valve.
Waste gate and blow/pop off valve is not the same. That squirel giggly noise you mentioned is pressurised air released when throttleing. Waste gate is however releasing exhaust gases to bypass turbine and it's not noticable in sound.
4.10 that sound is not a waste gate. That is off throttle turbo flatter or surge which I caused by the lack of blow off valve and what you hear is the air bouncing off the compressor turbine as it has no path to flow due to the throttle being closed
Great video Scott, as always! I was just wondering, since the MGU-H is taking and storing power while the car is running at full throttle, what is the difference between taking this energy from an otherwise oversized turbo, compared to just using the MGU-K just a tiny bit on the straights as well, is this only a matter of efficiency? Additionally, do you think that the turbo lag will be such a big deal when the new electric motor will be so much more powerful, and thus can help smooth out the corner exit for the driver? Will this be forbidden by the rules?
I think the difference is the MGU-H is capturing free* energy from the heat and pressure in the exhaust (as it can't be given to the compressor due to boost limits) whereas running the MGU-K in regen would add a direct drag to the engine output. There was a similar technology being developed in late WW2 aero engines called "turbo-compounding", and it significantly increased the max output of piston engines, but was mechanically pretty complex and couldn't compete with jet engines and turboprops that were being introduced
*the exhaust backpressure might slightly drop engine power but every you will lose
2:54 this is NOT wastegate noise! This noise is from the compressed air side, either escaping through a blow off valve (often confused for a wastegate), or escaping back through the compressor causing the multiple little chirps.
A wastegate only opens under power, when the exhaust is pressurized and creating boost. Easy to hear on big turbo street cars.
I'm on the same page as Scott. cost is important, but the technology was absolutely fascinating.
I think it is a backwards step. Especially as systems have already been designed. The lithium battery pack is very expensive. Why not have give Porsche a 2017 system as a starter for 10 to give them something to work from. If we are going to through the baby out with the bath water, why not have the kinetic energy recovery off the front axel? It would be more road relevant as most road cars are front wheel drive.
I doubt Porsche will need a starter pack since they've been running a MGU-H in the 919 since 2014. They just see it as a money sink for a technical dead end.
Great explanation of the MGU-H, first time in years that I understand it completely👍keep it up. This episode the volume of your voice is a bit low in relation to the advertisements
Looking forward to the sound coming back 👌🏻
Hi Scott...because of the 2026 regulations and MGU-H will be removed and turbolag will be introduced...Do you think Ayrton Senna's Throttle Technique will work on the 2026 Cars??? just asking questions😊😊😊
I guess we’ll see returning of the senna technique where he was repeatedly stabbing the throttle mid corner to keep the turbo spun up
Maybe Sena's style of accelerating during and out of the corners will come back?
Dumping and waste gate isn't same thing. Waste opens linearly when enough boost is generated, dumping happens always you lift pedal and motor power goes down. Normally you don't hear when wastegate is working. But usually dumping could hear. Sometimes it throws that air back system so air metering do not confuse and then there's almost no sound.
Great content as always.
I'd love to spend some time with Scarbs he explains incredibly complex things in a way we can all understand.
nice video, but missing difference between boost threshold and turbo lag.