The Back of the Bow, 6 Ways
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2024
- Six ways to make sure your bow has a strong back: chasing growth rings, a natural back, decrowning, backing, a carefully violated back, and a well selected board stave.
Find the companion article and detailed PDFs of all the video notes here dansantanabows...
There's plenty of information out there about each of these topics but today's video unites them all: these are all ways to make sure the back of the bow is made of an unbroken layer of fibers, as much as possible. For a detailed decision tree that explains what to do with whatever stave you might have, see the final chapter.
Also check out the in depth companion article on my blog, where you can find PDFs of all the diagrams found in this video.
The unique music in this video comes from my awesome friend and cousin in Uruguay-Marcos Topolanski Quintero. Download his tracks on iTunes, and also check him out on Instagram, Spotify, and here on RUclips.
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![CHILE vs. BRASIL [1-2] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5ObJt_71AYc/mqdefault.jpg)
A companion article and PDFs of all the notes in the video are on my blog dansantanabows.com/the-back-of-the-bow-explained/
Let me know if you have any questions about the video or any particular stave and as always please comment with any corrections you might catch.
Fantastic diagrams, they were very helpful!
What an amazing resource for the bow making community! this will help so many people
Wow, so thorough!
@Geoff Lybeck It’s down today but i’m working on getting it fixed asap
Understanding wood , what an adventure. Thanks for what u do !
You are not just a master bowyer, but teacher as well! Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this community
You’re all too kind, I have a lot to improve! I always enjoy the time I spend talking bows with you all
Yes, this man and Clay Hayes...wealth of info, spectacular teaching methods/ videography.
It's nice seeing a new video from you
Glad to be back! I have three more that are almost ready to launch and a few more on the chopping block
Man I wish this kind of quality bow content was on RUclips 14 years ago when I started making bows! Thank you for the quality information and support for the Bowyer community.
thanks my friend!
So glad your back!
thanks Jacob! Got plenty of stuff ready to release soon
the match cut at 14:44 was such a cool unnecessary detail that almost no one is going to notice, the fact that you put such care and effort into your videos is incredibly inspiring
Already on the third watch through. So many lessons learned and such a relaxing watch! Your videos put my 1 year old to sleep better than anything. Thank you a million times over, you have helped me through many long nights and hard times!
Start em while they’re young!
this was a beautiful video and very educational as well!
Dan you are a HERRO this is the most comprehensive bow making vid iv seen. and has answered so many of the questions you can only get through experience. If there was a Bowyer life time achievement award you would have earned it ten fold.
I agree!
The content, the video and the music are just mind blowing! Congratulations master!!!
Another useful contribution to selfbow community. I so enjoy/appreciate your videographer skills. It's going to be necessary to do repeated viewings. Once again, thank you.
Thanks again Michael, always appreciate you sharing the videos and everything you do to keep the facebook group running smoothly. I’m very glad tutorial style content is what folks are responding most to since I really enjoy making it
great video, very informational! glad to see you post a new video!
Thank you! Hope this helps
I have been actively making bows for 24 years and I have to say that even having the knowledge you present I thoroughly enjoy your videos. The way you present the nuances choices and consequences involved in bow making is refreshing. I really wish more beginners who have no patience for reading would watch your videos. My compliments on your presentation of one of my favorite areas of study.
love the video bro.
thanks as always my friend. May your arrows fly true
Excelente tenerte nuevamente Daniel! Gracias por todo!
Can’t wait to make more stuff together! Thank you as always for the beautiful music
@@DanSantanaBows coming soon...!
Very good thanks so much
I've been looking for this video for days.. No one else goes into the details that matter to actually understand how bow making works. Thank you for making it.
Amazing stuff as always Dan....we got to get together this summer
For sure! I’ll hook you up with some staves, Ive got some really nice hickory drying lately
And again - more things I could not put in words in orderly manner, thank you:-).
Thanks Maciek. How are your bows coming along?
@@DanSantanaBows hi Dan, holmegaard roasted #40 @28, just need some extra time over coals, oil and string , will do next week, then got 2 ash staves to take care of. Flying today to my home country tonight - there in a garage waits 2020 maple trunk to be touched😁. Busy, have to ditch my work soon and get full time on the wood😄. Many thanks
This is a seminar in itself!! Really interesting, i make wooden walking canes as a hobby, and alot of my questions were answered through this informative video...Be Well
From the UK - Thank you, a clear, informative and brilliant video - I will soon be attempting to make my first bow. I will be using an ash stave.
Good luck! Let me know if you have any questions and visit r/bowyer for help
@@DanSantanaBows Thank you very much 😃
No one's complimented you on this yet but amazing calligraphy/handwriting! The rest of the video is also excellent of course
Thanks Gem, appreciate it! I’ve been casually learning drawing and calligraphy in my free time so I’m ready when it’s time to put a book together
@@DanSantanaBows I have the same two hobbies of bowyery and calligraphy as well, although less advanced than you on both counts. They're both rather complementary, I find. And now I'm excited to see that book!
I enjoy and learn more from all of your video.
Thanks Dan, a must watch for anyone learning to build bows,, great resource
Thanks Fiona! Always glad to be a part of this community
Great stuff, thorough clear and beautiful!!
👏🏼 I've been waiting for a new video thank you🙏🏼
Glad to be back! There’s plenty more coming up soon!
@@DanSantanaBows 😎 👍🏼
Not only a great informative video but beautifully done. Very “zen” with the sounds, camera angles, your cousin’s music and diagrams. Good job!
Awesme instructions thank you very much been looking for straightforward material to learn more been making my own projects for about 6 months every bit helps. Thanks for paying forward your knowledge/skills
This is such a powerful video for anybody obsessed with self learning bowyer skills! Also beautifully edited and narrated. Thank you!
Thanks Sam, hope it helps!
Great explanations and cinematography! Since you've made so many unique and distinct bows, if you had to pick only one, which one would it be? Have you achieved *your* ideal bow yet, or is it a neverending pursuit?
Thanks again! It’s a never ending thing, but if I had to pick it would be the 70# hickory sapling bow (from the natural stains video.) The hickory static recurve from the tree to bow buildalong is a close second. My favorite go to design now is a simple high margin for error flatbow-gives me the best chance with tricky character staves.
@@DanSantanaBows I've read of a few master bowyers like you or the late Dean Torges turning more towards reliability and durability as time goes on, stemming away from flashy recurves, short lengths and crazy reflex. It's interesting
This is unbelievably informative! Thankyou for this knowledge.
THANKS 👍👍👍
Man you did a lot of work for this. Thanks for the pdf's. Great video, i appreciate it.
Glad it was helpful!
I'd love to see a skilled Bowyer like you recreate diffenrent types of horn composite bows using original materials!
I’ve never made a horn bow but one day! Check out stiliyan stefanovs channel for some great composite builds
@@DanSantanaBows I've seen his videos, they are some of the best! But I'd like to see you make some because your such a good teacher.
Beautiful video. The soothing voice, the relaxing music. Great watching.
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks!
Thank you SO much for taking the time
Thanks very much for sharing your valuable information skills and techniques.
My pleasure!
This man deserved a raise (and a new sub).
I can't wait to start trying to make one from Ashwood
I'll keep digging in your content for sure
greetings mr dan.thanks alot for your lesson
My pleasure!
Doesn’t matter if it’s on here, or on reddit. I’m always excited to see a post. Wonderful video, and thank you for your hard work.
On a somewhat related question, I was under the impression that English longbows (I suppose Welsh longbows, really) were (generally) closer to a concentric shape thinning towards the ends. Is that fairly accurate or are they a little more trapezoidal like many modern made self bows?
Been thinking about trying my hand at an ERC trial with one sapwood, one heartwood, and one mixed out of the same tree to see which works the best. I’ve gotten very mixed answers regarding which is the best to use with ERC.
English longbows made of yew are usually made with a D cross section, nearly parallel width taper for most of the length, and a thickness taper determined by the tiller.
In a way this is sort of the opposite of a trapped back because it’s an attempt to maximize the area of the back rather than the belly. Rounding the belly is a pragmatic way to keep the back from breaking by making the belly take set first. It keeps labor quick which makes sense for a wartime tool.
Personally I rarely find myself in a situation where a D belly makes sense. Chasing a growth ring rather than violating the back makes for a much more trustworthy back and eliminates the need for the inefficient round belly. The elb is somewhat overhyped. It’s a wise and pragmatic approach for a wartime bowyer, but these days when yew is precious I don’t think it’s the best design for a longbow. Personally I prefer to go with a flatter belly only rounded in the corners.
The wartime aspect certainly makes sense. I can definitely see a fairly large amount of set being acceptable for use in warfare. Efficiency and velocity become far less important when using heavy war arrows with high poundage. I wonder if that's why they went so high in weight? A 100+ pounds does quite a bit from a physics standpoint to offset loss in velocity/efficiency.
I'd be curious to see what draw weight it would take from a highly efficient selfbow to throw an equal weight arrow at the same velocity as a heavy but (relatively) inefficient ELB?
Personally I'm interested in doing an ELB style just because I haven't made one yet (and they're one of the easier historically interesting designs). Want to play with all of them eventually. Though, as you said, Yew is precious. So I'll likely continue to play with ELB designs with the hickory, ERC, and White oak plentiful in my woods. Plenty small enough in diameter that I should be able to just peel the bark and start tapering for an ELB design.
Thanks for taking the time to respond!
@@BakaEngel The bowyers bibles go into a lot of detail about the diminishing returns of high draw weights. While you do stop gaining as much speed as the weight skyrockets, you still get a lot more kinetic energy because you can handle much heavier arrows. High weights aren’t very valuable to target archers and beyond about 80# they tend not to be best for flight archery. But if you need to pierce a knight though thick armor hundreds of yards away then a massive draw weight really helps
Thank you sir for a great lesson. You have covered information about following growth rings that I have yet to practice. I really enjoy watching your tutorials. The professional presentation of your curriculum will lead me back to the craft, in spite of having no time to do it.
Impressed with the decision tree. What a helpful resource!! I learned a lot in this video, including some very basics on what even a growth ring is… versus the heartwood. Thank you for breaking it down to the basics, while also going deep for the experts!
Thanks Erica, glad ya learned something! All species have sapwood and heartwood-the sapwood is the living part of the tree and the heartwood is the dead, resinous, usually darker part. And both have growth rings-one for every year the tree is alive. As you carve through them you’re flying through tree history!
I have always had a love for traditional style bows .
I hunted since I was In my early teens for elk and deer. I finaly built a bow out of a juniper this last week found near my home . How rewarding I think I’ve found a new passion.. thank you for all your tips and tricks. Definitely wish I’d done this earlier .. I’m now in my late 40S and I think k I’m putting my wheel bow down for good. What fun it is to get back to why I started in the first place the connection one had with the mountain or a bow built from a tree grown there .. thanks again..
Your videos are the best, simply true
Super good video Dan! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
This is by far the best, clearest, most logically laid out, aesthetically pleasing, and most high quality video I've ever seen on primitive bowmaking. Masterfully done. Bravo!
Wow, thank you Art!
Well done Dan. It's always nice to see how passionate you are of your craft. Very generous to share your experience with the world. Keep up the good work my friend.
Thanks again Console. Nobody kept any secrets from me so it’s only fair
Love your stuff man !!!! So happy I found it . Every aspect is great .
Great video. Thank you. I'd like to see a video on bow profile and pluses and minuses of reflex, deflex,, recurve, etc on bows and self bows.
Excellent presentation!! Very well done!!
You are a Master.
Truly amazing to see. Thank You.
These videos have been extremely informative and helpfull! I'm in the process of making my first bow out of rowan and the more I've looked into yours and other bowyers videos the more confident I've become about pulling it off. Great stuff man!
This was outstanding Dan! Keep up the fine work please..😊🏹🌤🍃
Thanks Dennis!
Awesome video buddy! I'm a beginner, so this was very helpful!
Glad to hear! Visit us on r/bowyer if you ever need a tiller check or some advise
Muchas gracias maestro por compartir tus conocimientos,es un lujo y un placer poder escuchar tus consejos y disfrutar enormemente de tu sabiduría y abilidad a la hora de fabricar arcos,sólo las personas que fabricamos arcos sabemos el trabajo, paciencia y amor que dedicamos a cada una de nuestras creaciones, gracias de corazón y espero seguir disfrutando de tu trabajo🏹💜🙏
This was very helpful.
I'm cutting down a very large Canadian Maple tree next week.
The power company 'topped it' for maintenance near their lines... Which has actually compromised the tree, and with its proximity to the home, its coming down.
Point being, I will have a very large Maple to select staves from.
I believe, the trunk is over 18 inches thick, and rises from there.
I'm very interested in stave selection, and bow design.
I'm hoping to make Bows for myself, my wife, and our kids.
as always fantastic vid man! always love ur content! I was wondering what that super curved drawknife is.. or if it has a specialized name? looks awesome!
Thanks my friend! That one’s called a cooper’s drawknife, for making hollow barrel staves. They pop up on ebay once in a while but you’re welcome to try this one when you visit
Excellent video!!
Great video. I’d love to see a series of videos of the bows made by the different native nations of America. Maybe you can go visit your cousin and learn about native uruguayans bow making.
21:00 Back in 2014/15 I was in a woodworking class. In one class we made bows out of red oak and we backed them with fiberglass drywall tape, I still have mine.
Drywal tape won’t ruin a good bow but it also won’t save a bad one. Compared to other cheap and available backings I really don’t think it’s worth it. There’s a good reason that fiberglass backed wood bellied bows did not last long in commercial archery history. fiberglass tape glued together is much worse than a real strip of bow making fiberglass, and even that isn’t a great idea unless you’re making a proper fiberglass bow and also put it on the belly
Hi Dan, I must admit that you are one of my favorite bowyers. You surpass everyone else in terms of explanation fluidity, video quality and professionalism. Honestly, just WOW! I would take 100s of your videos back to back as if I was watching the full trilogy of the lord of the rings lol without getting bored that's for sure!
But well, here is a question for you. In my leaning process in becoming a bowyer myself, I harvested my first ash this spring, and realized after debarking that this tree, even though it seemed healthy, was infested by emerald ash borer. I decided by precaution to chase the second ring behind the first one that was exposed under the bark thinking that the tree would have healed itself during its growth process. Surprisingly, the second ring also has traces of this parasite. I have been extremely careful while chasing this ring, and to me, it "seems" to be not in a too bad shape. What do you think about this?
Thank you so much, again, for your awesome work, and pieces of art! Cheers!
PS: You cousin's music is awesome!
If you can get rid of the tunneling you should be good. I think a little bit of damage on the belly is not always a big deal but personally if there was a bug tunnel on the back i’d keep chasing rings or pick another stave
It looks more like spots than tunnels. Like if the bug had a small winter hole up to the sap wood. Just enough to see the locations on the sap wood but didn't get through the ring layer. Those damages are only visible on the back. You know what... I'll finish the bow and post back what the results are. At least it will serve as a good learning experience. I still have 5 staves of this tree so i need to find out if this one will be good for other bows.
The bow has been completed with success. Overall I have found the wood to be of extremely good quality. Resistant to compression and flexible. 43lbs at 27.5 draw length. Super happy with the result. Cheers!
Emerald ash borer wasn't a problem 👍
@@martarmis Awesome that’s good to hear, congrats! You should post it on r/bowyer sometime so I can see
I'm getting addicted to watching your videos and and I've learned more from you than I ever thought possible about bows. I love how you cover every subject even if it's not something you prefer or recommend. I do have a couple suggestions if you haven't been overwhelmed by comments and auctaly see this. One I am curious how you feel about branch bows? And also I want to see you make a laburnum bow so bad! I live in southeast alaska and we have an extremely limited tree selection. And even smaller community of self bow enthusiasts. Almost non existing. The tlingits that occupied most of southeast for over 18,000 years used atlatls all the way up till about 500 years ago. So most of them went straight to guns and skipped the bow. But there is a non native laburnum tree that's been in the park since I moved here and I was recently given permission to take a decent sized branch off it by the city. About 3" diameter and I split in just half. But if you do find the time to read this and are too busy to reply I just want to say thank you for sharing your knowledge and opinions! I made a functional bow for the first time out of a young sitka spruce branch after watching your videos. Despite making a ton of mistakes 😅
I don’t have any laburnum around here so it’s very rare for me to get a piece. Check out Simon from stone hill prinitives for some beautiful examples. He calls it golden chain tree on his site.
Branch bows can work but they’re tricky because they’re so much more characterful but they can work. It’s much harder finding full length pieces so I usually end up making short bows with branches
I'm just getting started into this, but it looks like a hobby that I can really enjoy. Definitely inspired to start experimenting. I'm curious what the thinking is on Hickory? I know it's very tough, and great for axe handles and tools. Is it suitable for a bow?
Edit: Disregard. I just reached the half point in the video and learned that Hickory is suitable. Thx for the info! 😁👍
Yep it’s my main bow wood. See the video on bow woods for more details
@@DanSantanaBowsHi. Thanks for the prompt response! I really appreciate that.
Yes, right after I posed the question, I reached the midpoint where you talk about how Hickory is your primary word. It's great to know that my instincts weren't wrong.
I was also curious about why people don't use plywood to build bows, but I really don't know much about the mechanics required of the material.
It seems to me that 1/2" Baltic Birch or something similar might be suitable. I was thinking that someone could take a couple of pieces of 1/2" Baltic birch, and perhaps laminate some formica in between, or as a back, or somehow incorporate some fiberglass or carbon fiber tape. And then do most of the shaping using belt sanders, and random orbital sanders, and then finish by hand sanding to a fine degree, and then possibly seal and finish with an epoxy, and then dull rub that. Perhaps even using a dye or a stain or maybe charring it to add character. And if it needed to be bent, it could be wet, and then bent and dried, or maybe steamed.
But I don't know much about the spring-mechanics required in a bow, and whether or not the plywood with the opposing grains would provide that. Maybe it would be too stiff. Or maybe it wouldn't have enough back spring. And obviously it's not traditional materials., but it would the inexpensive, and the materials are pretty much readily available, and it would probably reduce the time required quite a bit. Certainly not the same level of artistry, or craftsmanship, but it might turn out a great, inexpensive utility bow.
Is there something that you have considered at all?
Also, I just wanted to compliment you on your content. It's really great, along with your craftsmanship of course. Thanks for the great instruction. I love You Tube University! 😁👍👊 🏹🏹🏹
@@DanSantanaBowsand hopefully my suggestion about using plywood to build a bow doesn't overly offend your purist, artistic sensibilities, lol. I would totally understand if it did.😂😂😂
@@Curtis3366 The opposing fiber direction in plywood wastes a lot of weight. You could use uni directional plywood in theory, just like making a laminate bow
Man, I love this video. Getting into the 2nd half now. So much great insight. "A bow made of itself". Wow. An amazing insight of what a bow actually is.
I really just started looking at bow making videos today, and I'm already hooked. And my mind is exploding with all kinds of different ideas. But watching this video, it basically boils the bow down to its purest essence which really is a beautiful thing. I really appreciate this kind of content. It shows a high level of understanding of the inherent nature of not just the materials, but the character and qualities of a tool itself.
I've been thinking a lot lately about how activities, and tools, both have inherent philosophy built into them. They are designed to do specific things. I started thinking about it mostly from a martial arts perspective, because each martial art has a different philosophy built into its actions and reactions.
Some are highly destructive, and meant to kill and maim. Some are more competitive and designed to reveal a winner. Some are more geared towards self-defense, rather than destruction. But the philosophy is in the movement itself. And whoever trains in those movements, becomes that philosophy in action. It gets hardwired into them.
It's a difficult concept to explain in few words, but it lends itself directly into the idea of a gun for example, as compared to a shovel, or an axe for example. Both are designed for certain things. And both imbue the user with their inherent philosophy. When you hold and shoot a gun, you can't escape what it is designed to do, regardless of the reason it is used. And when you use and hold a shovel, you can't escape its inherent intention. And without getting too far into the weeds here, this line of thinking really makes me appreciate qualities of this type of bow building. Just because it's so pure.
Anyway, I wanted to mention the linen backing which appealed to me immediately when I saw you cutting it, and then you mentioned denim. And I was wondering about making a bow out of laminated denim and epoxy. Again, obviously not traditional, but it would be original, potentially highly effective, and potentially very striking in appearance. Especially if the epoxy were tinted navy blue.
Like I said this concept of bow making really appeals to me, just because of its creative potential. I can't wait to watch more of your videos. I've already sourced my Hickory. 😁
Thanks for sharing.
Incredible Information
Amazing content. Thank you.
Very useful! Thank you.
Awesome!❤❤ had seen many videos, terms are flying around in my head in no order-this chart gives them a systematic process to follow!
I wonder if you would do a followup and include the bow diameter/shape as part of the consideration?
Still a bit confused what woodtype/situation prefers a flatbow (rectangle) vs trapezoid bellyheavy or backheavy vs round?
And if there is any way to figure this out before the stave/sapling is cut-I had a sapling stem (1inch) where it turned out, it had a pretty strong bending direction preference, forcing me to change the hole belly/back direction in the midst of cutting it.
I realize as more carefull the woodpiece is selected and evaluated, as less work is there to do afterwards.
You either spend a lot of time in the forest or a lot of time fixing the woodpiece, correct?
I've been watching your videos and I appreciate the information you are sharing with us! I am getting ready to make my first bow,and I am being drawn to make my first official bow out of Agave flowering stalk. The flowering stalk has a soft pithy center and a hard bamboo like outer shell. I plan on using the outer part. I think i am going to be in uncharted waters by using this material. Have you ever experimented with this material?
Great video. I don't watch vids to critique but the hands all over the place at the tree walk through was rough. It seemed off cadence and over animated making it hard to track. I enjoy your videos and you cover more detail than the vast majority of RUclips on bow talk.
This was great! I could watch this all day :) I have a question though. I have a 52" ash stave that I have started on (and it has a near perfectly chased growth ring on the back, for reference). I want to get it to a 30"/31" draw and I'm aiming for a poundage between 15 and 25#. Im planning to slap some sinew on the back just to help it to hold together. Is that draw lenth even possible with a stave that short, or am I wasting my time?
Anyway, thank you for a soothing video :)
That’s a lot to ask from wood but with sinew and the low draw weight maybe it’s possible. I’m probably the wrong one to ask though since I don’t make sinewed bows
@@DanSantanaBows Wow, thanks for the quick answer! Well, let's try and see what happens. No one remembers a coward :P
A great video with so much detail, Thankyou.
Where I live in Portugal we don't seem to have many typical bow woods. Do you have any knowledge of a Cork Oak would be worth trying as a bow wood?
I struggled to find any mention of it on line, but maybe that could be because it's a tree that only exists here.
It’s hard to find information about it, but the stats for Turkey oak which is a very similar species look promising. As far as I know all the Quercus genus makes good bow wood so I’d definitely give it a shot
@@DanSantanaBows thankyou so much for taking the time to looks at this and reply to my, I genuinely appreciate it.
Maybe you have chestnut, as we do in Andalucia, growing alongside cork oak. And lemonwood, I think you have to try, suck it and see, as we say.
@@anthonyhedgecock1248 yes, we have Chestnut 🌰. Do you think that would be a better choice to try first?
I believed Lemon and orange would be great, but less chance of finding one of those that needs a big pruning. Greetings from Portugal 👍
@@BrancoCustoms I return to Spain at Christmas and will try chestnut first but will begin to look for lemon and orange branches that could be left to grow instead of being pruned out. Chestnut is great to split with wedges. Im sure there might be other species that would work. Im experimenting with laminations and so far everything has broken!! Im learning. Greetings from Dorset uk.
Great video! Im very new to bow making, Im harvesting my own rowan saplings, Ive looked throu the video but im unsure with the decrowning, is it still ok to use sand paper on the back of the bow to smoothen it out just for the smooth look of it?
Such a hard work and love into it 👌👌👌👌👌
I know that leaving the bark on bow backs is not a typical thing to be done but I absolutely adore the amount of character it adds so I really want to try my hand at it.
I know its possible with blackthorn and hazel, both of which I know it is possible but my blackthorn stave mighht not make a longbow at all since the *good* wood on it is only 62 inches . for the hazel though, I harvested it today, the 5th of april. From what I know the bark peels off more easily on spring wood, however the back ring is thicker. sap started flowing not too long ago so im thinking im a little too late with this stave to try the bark bow. on the other hand ive heard that it can be done as long as there arent any leaves on the tree yet, which would be the case for my log/staves. Do you have any advice for my case?
worst case I wait until the end of the year to harvest some more...
Harvest whenever you want to make a bow. Whitewoods cut in the spring make fine bows too
im not worried about the wood being bad or the sorts, im just trying to gather information on how to preserve natural bark on the back the best for bows. thank you for the input either way.
Hello dan, great video. Whats your opinion on vertical grain self bows where the grain runs from the back to the belly? I believe its called quarter sawn. What about diagonal grain?
As long as you choose a board with fibers that span end to end across the back without violation then you can use any growth ring orientation
I'm planning to pick up a couple boards to practice the techniques I decide on, before hand. Even knowing that, they won't have the exact same properties as the Maple.
Hey Dan, this was such a useful video. Thank you for sharing and teaching. I am in the process of making my first bow using an ash stave. This stave was cut in the Spring and the bark peeled right off along with the majority of the cambium. A little boiling water cleaned the left over cambium off and left the back clean. I'm planning on using the back in its natural state without looking for a growth ring. You said that if that was the case the back should be sealed, with sealer or glue. Can this be done once the bow is finished or should it be done now? And if so what would you recommend? Thanks again.
Definitely seal the back if there’s still moisture in the stave. Sometimes I don’t exactly follow my own advice here but I also ruin staves from splitting once in a while. Eventually you’ll pick up an intuition about what’s safe to dry how fast but if you want to be safe sealing the back won’t hurt and will help keep the cracks away
This is an absolute treasure trove, thank you so much for sharing. How did you get that black fade from the grip up in that bow around 13:42?
@@pimdubuf3272 I used leather dye and brushed it on with a paper towel. See my board bow tutorial for more
I like this channel very much. If I were to ask you, would you add Turkish subtitles to this video? And to your other videos. 🌺🌹
I don’t speak turkish at all so I can’t do it manually. RUclips recently improved the support of autotranslated subtitles but there’s still no option for turkish. Hopefully there will be soon.
If you go to the description of the video and hit “see more” you’ll see an option to view the transcript of the video. You can also auto translate it into 16 languages but right now turkish isn’t on the list so your best option is to copy the transcript and use google translate. Hopefully that’s good enough to follow along but let me know if you have any more questions!
I'm chasing a ring on a Mulberry stave right now and I like using the draw knife (on edge) to scrape the final bits of early growth, I noticed where my draw knife rests at the beginning of the stroke it's leaving small knicks - are those considered violations? Thank you. The time that you take to answer these questions is really appreciated.
I am really loving this venture into making Bows - It does have a terrible side effect though - Every tree I see now is all potential Bows!!
I try to avoid leaving tool marks like that because any severed fiber is a place a splinter could lift up. Realistically it’s probably not a big deal but I like to avoid it. I find that using a scraper with a burr leaves a smoother back, but many bowyers do it your way
There is a big spectrum to the concept of violating the back. Bowyers often talk about violating entire growth rings, which is a huge deal for most woods. Violating the surface fibers with little nicks and dents isn’t nearly as bad
Hi Dan.
Can you make a video on how to build that awesome vice you have for clamping the stave?
I will, a lot of people ask for that. For now check out the video on workholding methods, in the section on that vise I take it apart so you can see how it’s made. Let me know if you have any questions. I got the vise screw from woodcraft and everything else can be made from scrap logs leftover from bows or from thick boards
Can a person purchase one of these beautiful bows
I’ve been dying to try my hand at bow making, with a “dream project” being a hunting bow, made from local hickory backed with copperhead skins (for the aesthetics). The natural back sapling is really growing on me, though.
What I’ve been struggling with is what design would serve me best with a hickory hunting bow in Missouri. I have a 29-30” draw length, meaning a longer bow, and I’m greener than a clover field. Any suggestions- Pyramid? ALB? Mollegabet? I’ve been lurking on r/bowyer for years, but haven’t had the space to make a bow until recently.
Great video. Have you or anyone you know try synthetic sinew as a backing or this hog gut I seen being used. The hog gut I’d assume would be hotdog casings.
Artificial sinew is too stretchy for a backing. I’ve never used gut but saw someone post a gut backed bow on r/bowyer recently
@@DanSantanaBows ok thank you
Excelente!
Would you be able to elaborate on what trapping looks like? I have a hickory bow that has developed a problem on the back where thin parts of the fibers are essentially pulling themselves apart. I thought it was just from a broken growth ring, but after planing and sanding the offending area the problem resurfaced a hundred or so shots later. I was planning on just linen backing the bow since this saved some that I made from maple and elm, but I haven't run into a problem that won't be fixed before and it has me spooked.
Basically you’re narrowing the back at an angle so that the cross section resembles a trapezoid instead of a rectangle. Anyway, trapping isn’t a good idea in that situation since it will make the back weaker. That’s usually a good trade off for hickory since the belly is the weak spot in terms of performance. In your situation a backing makes more sense, or a sinew wrap in the problem area. Be careful with sanding and planing on the back which can violate the back and possible worsen issues with splinters in the long run
@@DanSantanaBows Thank you for the feedback. I think I misunderstood what you were saying in the video about a trap shape. I have some linen on hand and will go that route-I only tried planing it because it looked like it was an isolated area. Hopefully this fixes it. Also, I love the diagrams you put on the webpage-they are very well done.
Hello , I love your videos so much knowledge I like that , I got a question though… is Christ's thorn jujube wood is good for making bows ?
Egyptians made self bows typically either out of acacia or jujube. I saw that the british museum has a few specimens but i can’t find what they look like
@@DanSantanaBows thank you man for all your help
was always wondering if a thin coat of wood glue on the back of a bow would actually do anything
on the bow not much other than moisture barrier if it’s a waterproof wood glue, but you may as well use a better finish for this job. On the back of a stave it can slow moisture loss through the back reducing the chance of checking. This is standard practice for freshly cut osage that has had a ring chased while the wood is still green
Hi I have an important question arc length usually starts from a few inches to a few inches. Also the diameter of the middle tip and the handle and its width? You can share a drawing or image
Just keep in mind I can’t give you the final dimensions of your bow, that will depend on the design and tiller. Check out my board bow tutorial, in that video i give basic rough out dimensions and drawings.
These notes are for my next video and show the finished dimensions of a maple longbow www.reddit.com/r/Bowyer/comments/uz1rbj/maple_longbow_design_notes/?
@@DanSantanaBows tnx
Would Cascarra make a good bow. As a test I have bent several saplings to their breaking point, which was considerably more than a bow flexes. New to bow making , and came across a source of some cascsra and vine maple so thought at least I could practice on the cascara first.
I hear it’s not very good but you can practice with it. Make the bow wider, longer, or lower in draw weight or draw length. Vine maple is excellent stuff
Thanks
I see you've been working more with red cedar! Any tips from your experience?
It’s really hard to find one without many knots but worth the trouble if you do. Use the sapwood for the back or try to chase a growth ring as well as you can. Rawhide backing is a great option
Would you recommend titebond 3 for doing a sinew back or hide glue? I heard hide glue is better in theory because it allows the sinew to dry at a better rate and pull more reflex into the stave. Wondered if you had an opinion on that.
definitely hide glue
What would you do for apple? I have a pretty large piece of apple it’s not the trunk but it’s a really large branch. The growth rings are really tight and I’m not sure if I could case a growth ring or not? Still has the bark on it. It’s been drying for the last three or four years. The bark is thin. What would you suggest?
Bom.
Very good! Muito bom.
I have a yew branch, 3" thick, fairly round on cross-cut and straight as a pencil. I intend to make a longbow out of it. Sapwood is around 3/8" thick. If I make it with a natural back the tips of the limbs would be almost entirely sapwood. Does it make sense here to chase a ring and leave only 1-2 growth rings of sapwood to have more heartwood on the belly? I'm aiming for 35-40# at 28" on a 70" bow.
Either way would be totally fine. The most pragmatic thing you could do is just use the underbark surface for the back, but it’s also very common to thin the sapwood so more of the pretty heartwood is in the bow. Many say you must use a strip of sapwood on the back and heartwood on the belly but that’s total nonsense. Sapwood, heartwood, or any combo of the two makes great bow wood. The differences are there but relatively minor in the grand scheme of thing s
@@DanSantanaBows thanks a lot. In that case, I'll take the easiest (and more foolproof) path, since it's my first build. I assumed it wouldn't make much difference since it's a lighter draw weight on a fairly long bow so compression strength shouldn't be an issue, but I wanted to check with someone experienced.
Wouldn't giving a stave a "hot shower" to remove the bark result into having to wait for the stave to season itself again?
It doesn’t fully wet itself. That layer doesn’t take long to dry. By the time you start bending the bow it should be fully dry again
Thanks for making this video. I will say that I'm not particularly fond of "all natural" bows. It bothers me greatly to see squiggles and curves running down the length of a bow. Therefore I'm going to be solidly in the "sawn board" camp. I've actually made children's bows for my children from sawn hickory. They worked well, but were lacking in strength (fine for my kids, though). For myself, I'm looking at compound/laminated bow construction. Your video answered some questions that I had (drywall fiberglass, dog bone rawhide). I'm further interested in how the Koreans get so great a draw length from "short and pieced together" bows. Evidence says it works, but HOW???
I'm slightly surprised bow-makers don't use carving discs on angle grinders - at least I have never seen one use one. They will do all the rough shaping very quickly - you can finish the shaping with hand tools. Just my 2c. When the carving disc becomes too coarse & unrefined, when you're close to the final shape, a 40 grit paper on a grinder will also make great progress & is easy to create "Flow" with as you can move it so fluidly.
I can move a lot more wood with a drawknife while having more fun and without throwing dust everywhere. I had the same thought when I was starting out, thinking the angle grinder would be much easier. That’s true early on but when you get experience with blade tools and stop making so many mistakes then they’re not so slow and have the advantage of following the grain. That’s not to say you can’t use one, but like any power tool (belt and oscillating sanders are more common in bowmaking)you have to be careful about following the grain. Having tried it both ways, I can do a much, much better job with hand tools. The only time I’d consider using the heavy powertools are for a board bow or modern laminate. For character bows and the workflow I have they just don’t fit in that well.
@@DanSantanaBows I'm not gonna argue as I spend waaay time shaving away ash bark/wood using a hand-blade. :-) I sit in the shade & clamp the stave in my knees, work away dust free.. and happy. It's like a form of meditation. :-)
But the grinder stuff works too. :-)