As an engineer, I can tell you that any modern oil is better than what was used back in the 20s and 30s. As long as the motor has oil in it, there really isn't much to worry about. Great video as always Paul!
and you would be wrong and right a the same time, newer oil lacks a lot of additives that newer engines do not need but older engines require. so tell me again how you are an engineer who does not know the basics.
I've been using 30 weight non detergent oil in my Model A for 60 years. I got it in 1962 when I was 12. In the early 70's I bought 4 cases of 24 cans, Zurnoil 30W non detergent and I still have over a case left. Just changed it last week. I've had a lot of cars come and go, but the A is still here. Thanks for your videos.
Kohler oil is blended for air cooled engines, has extra anti corrosion goop in it since generators and outdoor power equipment sits for a long time without use. Its make to put up with higher temps without coking. it also has plenty of zinc, dinosaur bones, and 11 herbs and spices.
I’m a first time viewer, I’m 63 years old and I restored (and drove to high school every day) my first Model A at age 14. I am also an engineer, and I must agree with everything you said. This might be a first for me!!! Keep posting! PS: I currently have/drive a 1926 Chevy Roadster, Superior “V” and a 1941 Buick Phaeton 50, (convertible). The Buick is the youngest car in my stable.
I couldn't agree with you more. It's such a simple engine, and people (in web forums especially) tend to make a science out of it. Counterweights on cranks weren't even invented yet, that's how basic the engine was. Now guess how far they were in calculating fluid-dynamics at varying speeds and temperatures in the chaotic mish-mash of lubricating principles that this engine presents. Any oil will do - but I've made my best experiences with multi-viscosity oil, regarding cold starts in winter and high load situations in summer.
First time I've actually watched a RUclips video done by an engineer or or type of engineer that understands lubricity and the tolerances and inside the engine and what type of oil works best for this model A compared to previous oils and what type of fuels that they use currently I felt it was descriptive enough not without a bunch of extra blah blah blah just to be talking the guy made sense all the way through the video I Really find that quite refreshing
😎 JMO I feel that the modern detergents and dispersants are most beneficial to these old engines and their ability to maintain the "crud" in suspension. Especially with the 500-1,000 recommended oil changes.
When my friends and I first got cars we had real beaters! As high school kids we also put everything we had in our cars and dates. So, recycled oil and recapped tires were what we used. I can’t help but think that many Model A’s over the years must have been run on recycled oil and often went well over 500 mile intervals, especially during the depression and during the war after that. I do treat my Model A with care, but I think we can be so protective of our prized cars that it can lead to over thinking. As president of our Local Model A club, I get asked about oil too. It just so happens I run the same as you do. For gas, I only run regular gas with ethanol most of the time. In the winter when we don’t take it out as often, I tend to keep the tank full with non-ethanol to avoid condensation in the tank.
Am 88, an engineer, got my first A in '48, souped it bigtime. Overhauled my present '29 town sedan, modern rings, fitted it to .001, I run 5/20 full synthetic. I use it all winter, I want oil down those main(s) tubes instantly, heavier oil is a bearing killer in cold weather. I start, leave lever up, let it idle, let it fill the oil tray. Just did a 1300 mile trip out west, used no oil the entire trip, those amazing segmented rings, modern oil. How any survived those earlier days... I have no idea.
My SOP for your vids: 1) like 2) watch 3) enjoy. Comments may follow in edit. Edit: I remember my dad running straight 30W in his '51 Ford that he bought from his employer, White Motor Co. He was an apprentice machinist for them before WWII, was drafted and was assigned to 787 Ord Bn of 87 ID where he was, among other things, maintaining the trucks he had built. Pardon my digression. Dad kept that '51 running when the old fart down the street had a nifty '56 Olds and my school buddy's mom drove a '59 Caddy convertible. He finally broke down and bought a '57 Ford wagon with a T bird 352. I could go on. I love how your ramblings remind me of those simpler times. Thanks for what you do. May the Good Lord bless you and yours.
This was posted on the CJ2a forum recently and even though the jeep is 20 years younger, the engine design is about the same age as the model A. I personally use a rotella diesel oil for the zinc package and I cant complain. Keeps my pressure up and I use it to just stave off wear a little bit
Another great topic on a very controversial topic. Your coverage is outstanding and should clear questions on most open minded owners. Thanks again for all of your great contributions to the hobby!
Paul you're awesome. I don't know anything about this subject but I'm enjoying watching because you have a captivating way of talking. keep it up daddio!
Congratulations for covering this difficult subject. Holding a FAA commercial repairman ratting I agree on you oil knowledge and presentation. Aircraft piston engines designed in the 30-50s are very similar to the Model A. 31 43B.
I have owned my model A for close to 30 years have heard all kinds of BS about what oil should be run in them Love your video clear concise and logical I started my work life as a truck mechanic back in the early 70s and have been interested in the model since I was about 8 years old I run straight 30 wt and change the oil as you do when it darkens
A real useful video here Paul! You certainly educated me on the oil and some of the problems I've had in the past, i.e. clogged catalytic converter, as well as the weight on oil in summer and winter. Once again a fantastic video, thank you for sharing, have a great week.
@@ModelA I had a 1987 F150 that had the clogged catalytic converter, costs over $300 for just the parts over 15 years ago. It was a farm truck so it was really needed to do some pulling, couldn't do it with no power.
Paul I just found your channel yesterday while watching VGG. I don't own a model A or model anything but I really enjoy your videos. I saw your video where you were toting your oxygen tank. I really hope you are getting better. Your wealth of knowledge is incredible. Thanks for your time making these videos.
I love your videos, you give practical & fact-filled information! I love old cars, but currently the only "Model A's" I have are John Deere tractors(a 1951, and a 1936 that my great-uncle bought new!)...
I had been told not to use detergent oil, I did remove the pan from my 1921 Dodge Bros buckboard, reckon there was nearly an inch of hardened sludge in the bottom. I just used a straight 30 weight after that. I have a 1924 Chev which I am getting up and running, will remove the pan and will consider running the 10/w30 synthetic. I know its not a Mod A but it will still have been designed to use the 30 weight. Mod A Fords are pretty expensive down under, but after watching your lovely videos reckon I may get one in due course. Trust all is well with you. Cheers from Down Under
I would not use multi-grade. You should use the single-grade that was specified when it was new. In really cold climates, you may have to use SAE 20, 20W, or even SAE 10W if it stays cold enough. In desert climate, you might have to use SAE 40.
Non-detergent oil is garbage. To make matters worse, somewhere along the line the non-detergent moniker became deprecated. Most oils labeled "non-detergent" today have no additives whatsoever and are basically laxative oil.
Glad to see you feeling better and puttering in the garage. Just a question related to the oil situation. Do you have an idea of how many miles you get before an oil change normally on your regular drivers?
The cars with oil filters go several thousand miles before the oil starts to get dirty, the cars without filters go anywhere from 300 to 600 miles between oil changes.
You know that should have been a 30 second video. Correct viscosity and regular oil changes is all you need to know. But I get that you need to go a little deeper for the over thinkers so they're not awake at 4 am wondering if they put the wrong oil in their Model A. 😄 I always enjoy seeing our 29 featured on a video! And hearing it, sounds so good!
Some common sense advice, thanks. While I don’t own a model a, I do have some older motorcycles and a couple of cars with flat tappet cams. I personally think the zink issue is overstated. My example is the 4.0 liter Jeep (or as I call it, the 4.0 liter AMC). It has a flat tappet cam and was produced until 2006, long after zink was removed. I have rebuilt 2 of them, never did any goofy 30 min run at 2500 rpm to break in the cam. Filled them with 10w-30, started them up and took them for a drive. I’m sure at the factory they drove them off the line, nothing special, and they are known to be a reliable engine. Just my 2 cents worth.👍
This was also before many cam manufacturers were out sourcing where their cams are made now & there has been a lot of problems with the cams being either ground wrong for lift & duration specs as well as the LSA & even ran into a guy I know where 2 lobes on his 383 cam were ground wrong so they weren't opening & closing at the correct time causing back firing on a new rebuilt engine while on the Dyno to be started & broke in then tuned before going back into his muscle car . The other problem these out sourced cams are having is they are not being surface hardend good enough so the lobes & lifters are failing because the cams are soft even on stock type low lift small duration low spring pressure cams . I know 2 guys that used Comp cams & the one mentioned above that had problems but the other guy had a fresh built SBC who broke the cam lifters & engine on the Dyno then tuned put the engine in his truck & within a couple hundred miles the cam went flat . I think he built his engine from what I hear but one thing you always check is to make sure the lifter bores are honed so the flat tappet lifters can rotate while being in the break in period or else cam & lifter failure will happen . I worked at 3 different speed shops & built quite a few engines from stock to all out drag race engines but if any of them were running a hydraulic or solid flat tappet I always broke them in with zinc & haven't had any cam failures through the years building engines one I did for a guy I know for his road runner a 451 stroker that used a 50 year old Mopar direct connection purple shaft that made 500+HP & 560 torque on pump gas & used zinc on that engine break in on the Dyno . That's what's nice about Roller cams no zinc or break in period needed plus if you don't like the cam you chose & let's say want to go bigger or smaller you can just buy another cam & use the same roller lifters again which saves money being with a flat tappet cam hydraulic or solid you need to buy new lifters again or the fact that when breaking in a new solid flat tappet cam they recommend removing the inner valve springs during break in then it all has to come apart again & the inner springs put back in again which is time consuming at the least . Zinc won't hurt anything as long as it's not used in a vehicle that has catalytic converters on it but it does help protect cams & lifters as well as helps on a engine that has non hardend valve guides to last longer.
Don't shoot me for comment #1 but I never noticed the difference in front/rear tire sizes until a good side view of your car. 2nd, the detergent vs non-detergent issue. We have a 55 Caddy and the engine design came from the end of the 40's. Non-Detergent oil. The oil pickup tube floats to get the cleaner oil on top, and the owners manual tells you to bring the car to your Cadillac dealer "after the winter driving season" to have the pan dropped and cleaned annually to remove sludge. Not starting a debate with that, just confirming what you said about straight oils dropping their impurities to the bottom. Thanks and keep the videos coming.
Just re-warched it and you are correct--- What am I saying, of course you are. The clearance is just different and it fooled me. As that car is all original and has been sitting so much, has the front spring settled a bit? Don't know why I never noticed it before. Maybe I'm not as young as I was 30 years ago?? Na
We have a Store here in Albuquerque, New Mexico it’s called, “Family Dollar Store” they used to sell a motor oil that says, “Not intentioned for a Car/Motor after 1930! I think I still have a Quart outside in my garage. They used to sell a Transmission oil that said, “Not intended for a Transmission after 1988.” Fun stuff! There was a local news story about that, than they stopped selling it. I haven’t been back to the store since, the oil might be gone now!
Paul I have used a German product called MOLLY and have found it to be of exta ordinary quality in my modern engine, quieter, smoother, instant throttle body response amazing stuff unavailable at most major stores, it should be noted I have no horse in this race and am only a customer , bet it works on MODEL A FORDS
As you said oil is a debated subject. One that will never come to a common agreement. Like you, I run what works best for me. With a lot flack, I’ve chose and run 15w40 in my flathead 6’s.
You are very right about zinc not being necessary in the A engine, but I have to agree to disagree with you about using multi-grade and the wisdom of using detergent oil in an engine with no oil filter.
Hey Paul, Dad told me that with a model A, they have been known to take off running when you turn the key on. From what I understand, it has to do with whenever you shut the motor off, if the engine stops in a position where one of the cylinders is at TDC at the end of an intake stroke with a fresh mist of fuel/air mixture in one of the four combustion chambers, and IF the cam in the distributor is EXACTLY in the right spot where it will cause the spark plug to arc on that cylinder when you turn the key back on, it will fire on that cylinder, enough to kick the engine over and will take off running. Dad told me he’s heard of it happening, with a model A engine but only seen it happen ONCE over the 50 some odd year period of time he’s been a model A enthusiast. Ever seen or heard of this happening?
I’ve had that happen in an old Harley I built about 10 years ago. Maybe every 3rd time I’d turn the ignition key to on, it would spin a bit and kick out some smoke from the carb.
Great video and I applaud you for taking the chance of being flamed for taking on the subject, lol I would love to see you send off a oil sample to Blackstone labs for a oil analysis. I've used them a lot and it's very informative to see what's wearing and how the oil stood up to its use .
Oil Analysis programs are cheap and a GREAT way to keep an eye on engine health. It isn't uncommon for big rig owners that drive their trucks as well to send in a sample on every change to monitor engine health. An analysis program with someone that understands how results can vary depending on driving conditions, can really learn a lot about their engine health and it can be a great diagnostic tool on repairs, or even checking engine health before a purchase. Depending on what is in the oil, and compared to what your engines have, can show how it is, if the bearings are splintering, too much gas is getting in, lugging too much, compression gases, etc. I imagine that there isn't much data for Model A oil samples compared to modern engines, but building that database would be of great interest. Something I plan to do with my own vehicles as well.
As to the comments re ventilation while you're running the engine inside the garage, and after laboriously viewing your videos, I comment is: Awe shucks! Just kidding. Nonetheless, we need to see more of that lady that helped you push your cars around. You know. Anyway, I think you're right on about the oil question. Nice videos, clearly filmed/recorded, good clean sound, easy to understand and sound advise/information. Keep it up. Thanks, Charlie in NC.
Nice video. I would add the need for additives to protect the engine from condensate mixing with the bad chemicals to form acids. The time between changes should be way more then 500 miles as it is noted the oils today are much better then in 1930. As for the switch from detergent oil. Usually the problems that people have are from the old worn engines. The sludge is keeping the engine quiet. They run detergent oil and suddenly the engine makes noise. We dont drive most A's enough where wear or oil issues are going to be a factor. Honestly, most A engines fail because they were not built right. The moral of the story is buy any quality oil and dont change to too often. A comment on fuel. With my 65 Mustang I had a bit of a loop in the engine (the 6 cyl) when parading on hot days. I switched to a top teir fuel (happens to be Gulf) and that problem went away. I also found using that kind of fuel in my lawnmower it would just start easy in the spring. I also noted it smelled right in the spring and I remember the cheap fuel I bought did not smell right. So I try to avoid low quality fuel like Sam's or WaWa (hey I am in NJ).
There's no such thing as low quality fuel. All fuel is refined generally in the same place and then additives are put in by different manufacturers. But that doesn't mean they're low quality. 87 octane is 87 no matter where it comes from.
I AGREE 110% 30W oil ( or maybe 30/40, for topping up ) but NOT modern thin oil never ever for a Model A!!!! I agree Zinc for older engines!!!! Even with late model cars just stay with manufactures recommended oil, TOP QUALITY oil and Filter modern DOHC engines NEED thin oil to oil too the cams ASAP on start up, GOOD servicing is the KINDEST for modern engines.
The only concern I have for multi weight oil to work at the rated hot weight the oil needs to reach about 196 degrees. 30 weight was recommended for cooler climates and 40 weight for southern and western climates as per Ford. I wouldn't use a multi weight unless you drive it frequently and long trips
As an auto-mechanic, who has 35 years of experience in automotive service work I can tell you that just use what your car’s manufactures list in the owners manual. Does not matter if it’s a model T or a 2023, Ferrari what they recommend is what the motor was designed to use. As I ran a modern synthetic 10 w30 in my 240 inline 6 that my 1965 Ford F-100 had, and never had an issue due to motor oil along with unleaded gasoline in it when they stopped selling leaded gasoline. As long as you keep your fluids and filters changed on a regular bases, you’ll drive that car till the wheels fall off. But don’t let your wheels get so bad they fall off.
The motor oil recommended in the Model A manual hasn't been made for almost 30 years. Also, it was grossly inferior to even the cheapest oil made today. It's OK to think on your own sometimes and go with what logic dictates is best. 35 years experience or 100 years experience, doesn't matter if you aren't thinking your way through it and juat blindly following the manual. Well, to be fair, any car made in the last 20 years, I agree with you. But cars made before WW2, you have to be your own man.
I remember buying some motor oil from the Dollar store once and I read the back and it said this oil complies with specifications for cars made prior to 1930! I think I got it for my Chevette which was in a condition that it didn’t make much difference what kind of oil I used just that it had some in it. Not that easy as it leaked plenty 🙃
@@gregorymalchuk272 it was for my old Chevette. Just something to let you read the oil level on the dipstick 🙃 Even so I had more that 250k miles on that car and it still ran good with no engine work. The reason I don’t have it still is because a tree fell on it.
OK Paul, as far as using detergent vs. non-detergent oils, use what the car has had in it. If detergent oil is used in a car that has had non-detergent oil in it, as I was told, removes deposits behind rings on the pistons and can cause oil consumption. Also, using synthetic oil or natural in my particular car can cause oil consumption also. So, I stick with what is recommended by the manufacturer. BTW, as a senior, my car doesn't go far everyday and that can be considered rough service.
"Deposits behind rings" is something I have been hearing for decades. When a fellow engineer and I studied that, we found out it was wives tales. Rings either seat or they don't, and if anything is hiding behind a ring, it's gone pretty quickly. Sticking with what the manufacturer recommends is good on new stuff, but with these 92+ year old motors, keep in mind the manufacturer recommended oil that is so bad, you cannot even buy it anymore.
@@ModelA The problem I have with using detergent in an engine with no oil filter is the fact that any dirt and grit will be held in suspension, circulating, allowing it to cause added wear. With non-detergent, much of it will settle to the bottom of the pan. If you have an oil filter, detergent is good because that filter will trap the grit and dirt, and the detergents in the oil will keep everything clean.
@@michaelbenardo5695 Yes, to a point. However, I never let the oil in this car get dirty. The other Model As that get driven a lot have oil filters added.
@@michaelbenardo5695The crap that they sell as "non detergent" today has NO ADDITIVE PACKAGE. No anti-wear, no corrosion inhibitors, no anti-foaming agents, no nothing. It's not suitable in ANY engine. Some states have actually banned it from even being labeled as "motor oil".
I really would have assumed you would run Shell Rotella T1 30 much like the air cooled VW world does. That said 10w-30 is my second choice for air cooled and winter use.
I have a blue 1928 Model A Phaeton. I am looking to move along. It has been in my family since 1928!!! It was nicely restored by my dad, Frank H Gardner of Newton ,MA. Not sure if my kids will take it on yet , but when they decide where best to advertise? Do you know of any possible takers who are looking for such a car? Thanks, Nan Powlison Glenside PA
Modern day motor oil has 800 to 850 ppm zinc as you say to protect the catalytic convertor racing oils depending on the brand have 1200 to 2500 ppm zinc they do caution against using in a car with catalytic convertor.
Very well done Paul!! THANK YOU much appreciated!! Now if the nay-sayers want to shed doubt and argue,,, well let them run wild! I subscribe to YOUR way of thinking 100% , have for years!!
I have a question, sir, about the gasoline. As you're driving on "normal" gas I suppose you mean "unleaded 95 octane". In Europe we have only the choice between "normal" 95 octane gas and 98 octane "super" gas. (and of course Diesel but this is not to the point here). That gas can contain ethanol. If you are running on "unleaded" (95), did you adapt the valve-seats to unleaded gas or are you using additives ?
just have to chuckle a wee little bit at people going on about manufacturer recommendations concerning motor oil of a car built quite nearly a full century ago ;)
I see you are changing the oil with a cold engine. Way back, I was told it was better to change the oil with a warm engine, but that applied to modern cars I learned basic mechanics on at night school. I used the same procedures on my first A I purchased in 1978 but sold 29 years ago. I just go back into the hobby and it is time for my first Oil change. Should I be changing the oil, warm or cold? Or does it really not matter?
Doesn't matter. I hear arguments for both ways, but it truly doesn't matter if you're patient and let it drain all the way. If you're in a rush, do it warm. But in a gravity feed motor, you will get a less complete oil change if you have just ran it.
You’ve opened a can of worms!! 😂🤣 Great explanation. On aircooled motors such as Harley Davidsons, old Porsche and VWs the argument against synthetic was that these motors are air and oil cooled and that conventional oil has the capability to absorb heat and go through the oil cooler and shed it; whereas synthetic does not. I am not sure if that has changed.
That was another myth. Manufacturer's of many air cooled engines such as Honda, Yamaha, Kohler, Briggs and Stratton, and Harley Davidson all offer their own synthetic oil.
My only issue with synthetic oil in a Harley was in my Shovelhead. I used it for a while(including riding 630mi one-way to a certain famous motorcycle rally) and I started to have oil leaks show up. I switched back to conventional oil after that...
I don't know about new Harleys, but the old ones were made to use SAE 50. Not 20W-50, but straight 50. That's what my brother always used in his, and he never had any lubrication problems, but those who wanted to use 10W-40 or something DID have problems.
Since the Vicky has SUCH a bad case of blow by, I’m using 20w50 in an effort to keep a bit more oil in the crankcase! lol Using the synthetic oil you use developed a lot of leaks in this old beasty and the blow by was S-O bad that I was choking on the smoke through the floor boards! I look forward to Spring when I can pull this engine and send it out of State to be rebuilt!
As a renowned scientist, petroleum engineer, along with many nominations for NpP I can tell you I’m lying and don’t really know a damn thing about oil other than don’t let it get too low, nor over fill it.
Paul publish a list of the oils you've tested, then ask your subscribers to vote on the oil that we think your tests will show is best for a Ford Model-A
That would be an awesome way to do this! Unfortunately, I didn't even think about that. Drat. I used some simple engineering though and shared it in digestible terms. We will see how much I get beat up on it!
@@ModelA Paul the majority of your subscribers know you to be an expert on the Ford model-A, your intelligent and put together good troubleshooting technique in your day job and on your automobiles, it's obvious to that you have the ability of doing good research. I suspect you will come up with a very viable way of checking Oil for or 100-year-old engine design the Ford family should adopt you my friend.
Before electric block heaters or electricity on the farm ... how to start that A in minus forty degree temps?.. Pull the battery.. Drain the oil.. Place both beside the woodstove. Next morning... replace battery.. Replace oil... and away ya go! Gotta love that straight thirty weight.👍
Paul, keyboard cowboys, conspiracy theorist, we wouldn't flame you we love your channel. I did have a preconception because of the per-video announcement of Paul and Tina in lab coats with Bunsen burners heating various samples of oil. One should never give credence to preconceptions, or as Friday on Dragnet used to "say just the facts ma'am just the facts". Enjoyed your video they keep getting better.
Great video! As a lot of people already said. Every engine oil today is better than what was around in the 30´s. I´ve never understood why people insists running 20w50 in classic cars when they usually were designed for 30. I have a question about the fuel. You said you don´t run any additives. How come the engine doesn´t need it? Is it because of the low valve spring pressure? I´ve always ran lead substitue additive in older engines that don´t have hardened valve seats.
@@johanankarback6821 usually people run such thick oil because they are getting a car that has a worn out engine from a combination of age and abusive driving. Too many people treat all old cars like hotrod muscle cars, or simply push them too hard trying to keep up with modern traffic. Not only in top speed but especially acceleration. Since later cars have a pressurized oil system, they have to run thicker oils just to maintain pressure after so many years of abuse. For the rebuilt engines, they'll do it and brag about the oil pressures, not realizing their actually harming the engine by sending half their oil right back to the pan through the check valve. Something Packard understood even in the 20's, was that thinner oils make better power and better engines. But, due to manufacturing and supply limitations, their production engines used comparable oil for the era. Only in the last decade or two has engine manufacturing really embraced light oils, to the point of even 0 weight, in an effort to get as much efficiency and better emissions from their engines. Given the choice though, they would prefer to continue making more "sloppy" engines that use thicker oils because they are cheaper to produce, heh. But, EPA demands otherwise.
I would not use multi-grade in an engine like the Model A engine. Engines with Full-Pressure, like the Ford V8, Ok, but for the A, I would stick with single-grade oil.
Older video with good info. I always smile to myself when people say "I'm an engineer". I too am an engineer, chemical engineer. I can't tell you how many times people ask me about wiring because I'm an "engineer".
I do not own a model A, but I am a fan of the car and the channel. I agree with everything you said about the oil, but not so sure about the gas. These engines were expecting lead in the gas right? You thoughts would be respected and appreciated.
I took my car to the mechanic this week, because my battery died, and I haven't been able to open the back door for at least two years, and the little flashing sign that lets you know it's time to get the car checked by a professional has been on for 3 months. And as I was leaving my dirt coverd car with that poor soul I though to myself: Paul wouldn't like this one bit, no sir...
Oils labeled "Full Synthetic" may contain little to no actual synthetic oil but rather highly refined and synthesized mineral oils. True synthetic oils are labeled "100% Synthetic". There is a huge difference in cost between the two.
If it's on sale, then I don't care. Neither does the Model A. But you're right. If I was driving Ferraris around, then I would be paying close attention for sure.
@@ViceGripGarage Coming from you, that is the highest compliment ever. Thank you SO much! If you're ever out my way and want to drive a stock Model A around, just say the word. Let's collab!!
*Mountain Region Model A Club President Jim McCartney (sadly now deceased) poured new babbit bearings in my engine. I asked him what oil to use, and he replied by asking me what oil I used in my everyday modern car. I replied 5w30, and President Jim said to use that same oil in the Model A. Two things originally used in Model A days are not possible to be used now, Paint and Motor Oil. The reason we cannot use the original paint and motor oil is because the worst paint and motor oil we can buy today are much better than the best paint and motor oil that was available in l931. Thanks.
I am considering straight 30W. In my old mower flatheads (mostly Kohler and Briggs) when I run a multi weight oil, 5W30 in winter, they send a small amount through muffler. Does the model A burn a bit of multi weight oil? My mowers with 30W in summer use next to none with engine in good condition. I have a commercial OHV Kawasaki pusher with 24 years on 30W.
I’m supposing switching to a synthetic you would need to drop the pan and clean it, where would one go from there or is not recommend on an engine with unknown miles on it?
Yes, it is allowed, we are here to help! Stock flathead V8 ran without zinc just fine when new, still will. Once you start modifying it with a different grind cam or stiffer valve springs, zinc will help keep the cam lobes from wearing prematurely. But even stock, putting zinc will not hurt anything.
@@ModelA Thank you very much. I saw a lot of posts about using oil with zinc in it in flatheads, and was concerned I was doing it wrong on this time (I never heard of zinc in motor oil until very recently and have never used oil with zinc in it). Thank you again sir!
I am curious, you mentioned putting a circuit breaker in the fuse holder, do you have another video that talks about that item? I am asking because I do maintenance on a 29 for a friend of mine, a circuit breaker that replaced a glass tube fuse interests me.
So I am building a hodge podge car using a 1920 Hupmobile and a Model A drive train (just because I pretty much have all the parts). What is your opinion on a higher compression head? And what is the point of no return
A 5.5:1 head is a pretty nice way to go without beating up the lower end or making it run weird. Just remember, the higher the compression you go, the more picky the timing will be. 6:1 is a bit too much for a stock babbit A motor, in my opinion. I just run stock heads myself. I don't like when the timing gets so picky that my wife gets intimidated by it.
@@ModelA thank you, I trust your opinion. I love all Model As (and if I am being honest most everything old regardless of brand) and this little car is just because I have all the parts lying around scattered in my shed, garage and back patio, I figured it would be fun to cruise it around like a "hot rod" since the pickup you see in my avatar is costing me a fortune to put together doing it right. Edit: As for timing or tunability I am totally comfortable with it taking some effort it's part of the fun (I am a mechanic). I got a 05 Dodge truck if I just want to drive without any issues.
As an engineer, I can tell you that any modern oil is better than what was used back in the 20s and 30s. As long as the motor has oil in it, there really isn't much to worry about. Great video as always Paul!
I have always said, " today's worst oil is WAY better than 1930's best oil. " Thanks Alex!
had an old time engine builder tell me that the finest racing oil from 1957 would make bar oil for a chainsaw today.
@@thefixerofbrokenstuff That's where my used oil goes 😁
As long as you have zinc in it itll be fine.
and you would be wrong and right a the same time, newer oil lacks a lot of additives that newer engines do not need but older engines require. so tell me again how you are an engineer who does not know the basics.
I've been using 30 weight non detergent oil in my Model A for 60 years. I got it in 1962 when I was 12. In the early 70's I bought 4 cases of 24 cans, Zurnoil 30W non detergent and I still have over a case left. Just changed it last week. I've had a lot of cars come and go, but the A is still here. Thanks for your videos.
Is your non-detergent oil clear or amber?
Kohler oil is blended for air cooled engines, has extra anti corrosion goop in it since generators and outdoor power equipment sits for a long time without use. Its make to put up with higher temps without coking. it also has plenty of zinc, dinosaur bones, and 11 herbs and spices.
At 9:36 Q: "How well do I know my car?" A: So well that everyone can learn even more. Awesome video, Paul!
Hahaa! I kinda regret saying that. It was a little egotistical, and that's just not like me at all.
Paul. As you stated, I believe that you are more of an expert than the wannabees.
You know more about As than probably all of us.
Thanks👍👍😎
I’m a first time viewer, I’m 63 years old and I restored (and drove to high school every day) my first Model A at age 14. I am also an engineer, and I must agree with everything you said. This might be a first for me!!! Keep posting! PS: I currently have/drive a 1926 Chevy Roadster, Superior “V” and a 1941 Buick Phaeton 50, (convertible). The Buick is the youngest car in my stable.
As a Lube Tech for Chevron for 28 years you are spot on Paul. Viscosity is the most important thing!
Yes!
I couldn't agree with you more. It's such a simple engine, and people (in web forums especially) tend to make a science out of it.
Counterweights on cranks weren't even invented yet, that's how basic the engine was. Now guess how far they were in calculating fluid-dynamics at varying speeds and temperatures in the chaotic mish-mash of lubricating principles that this engine presents.
Any oil will do - but I've made my best experiences with multi-viscosity oil, regarding cold starts in winter and high load situations in summer.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was confused because I knew there are dipper trays for splash oiling but there is also an oil pump? Now I get it.
First time I've actually watched a RUclips video done by an engineer or or type of engineer that understands lubricity and the tolerances and inside the engine and what type of oil works best for this model A compared to previous oils and what type of fuels that they use currently I felt it was descriptive enough not without a bunch of extra blah blah blah just to be talking the guy made sense all the way through the video I Really find that quite refreshing
Thanks Peter! I am an engineer. Did it show?
😎 JMO
I feel that the modern detergents and dispersants are most beneficial to these old engines and their ability to maintain the "crud" in suspension. Especially with the 500-1,000 recommended oil changes.
When my friends and I first got cars we had real beaters! As high school kids we also put everything we had in our cars and dates. So, recycled oil and recapped tires were what we used. I can’t help but think that many Model A’s over the years must have been run on recycled oil and often went well over 500 mile intervals, especially during the depression and during the war after that. I do treat my Model A with care, but I think we can be so protective of our prized cars that it can lead to over thinking. As president of our Local Model A club, I get asked about oil too. It just so happens I run the same as you do. For gas, I only run regular gas with ethanol most of the time. In the winter when we don’t take it out as often, I tend to keep the tank full with non-ethanol to avoid condensation in the tank.
They took plenty of abuse, especially during wartime!
Am 88, an engineer, got my first A in '48, souped it bigtime. Overhauled my present '29 town sedan, modern rings, fitted it to .001, I run 5/20 full synthetic. I use it all winter, I want oil down those main(s) tubes instantly, heavier oil is a bearing killer in cold weather. I start, leave lever up, let it idle, let it fill the oil tray. Just did a 1300 mile trip out west, used no oil the entire trip, those amazing segmented rings, modern oil. How any survived those earlier days... I have no idea.
My SOP for your vids: 1) like 2) watch 3) enjoy. Comments may follow in edit. Edit: I remember my dad running straight 30W in his '51 Ford that he bought from his employer, White Motor Co. He was an apprentice machinist for them before WWII, was drafted and was assigned to 787 Ord Bn of 87 ID where he was, among other things, maintaining the trucks he had built. Pardon my digression. Dad kept that '51 running when the old fart down the street had a nifty '56 Olds and my school buddy's mom drove a '59 Caddy convertible. He finally broke down and bought a '57 Ford wagon with a T bird 352. I could go on. I love how your ramblings remind me of those simpler times. Thanks for what you do. May the Good Lord bless you and yours.
Your dad was a smart man. God bless, Bill!
Great video -
Well done Paul for such a
”slippery slope “ topic !
Quite the slippery slope indeed!
This was posted on the CJ2a forum recently and even though the jeep is 20 years younger, the engine design is about the same age as the model A.
I personally use a rotella diesel oil for the zinc package and I cant complain. Keeps my pressure up and I use it to just stave off wear a little bit
If it makes you happy, that's all that counts. There is almost no wrong answer. Also, the Jeep motor revs higher than the long stroke Model A.
Another great topic on a very controversial topic. Your coverage is outstanding and should clear questions on most open minded owners. Thanks again for all of your great contributions to the hobby!
Thanks Alberto!
Thank You from a newer A and recently acquired T owner for a simple explanation !!
My day is complete! I learned something new today! Thank you, Paul!
Thank YOU
Model As are just beautiful! How could you look at that going down the road and not smile
Paul you're awesome. I don't know anything about this subject but I'm enjoying watching because you have a captivating way of talking. keep it up daddio!
Wow, thank you!
Congratulations for covering this difficult subject. Holding a FAA commercial repairman ratting I agree on you oil knowledge and presentation. Aircraft piston engines designed in the 30-50s are very similar to the Model A. 31 43B.
Thank you!
I have owned my model A for close to 30 years have heard all kinds of BS about what oil should be run in them Love your video clear concise and logical I started my work life as a truck mechanic back in the early 70s and have been interested in the model since I was about 8 years old I run straight 30 wt and change the oil as you do when it darkens
Excellent! Welcome aboard, my brother!
A real useful video here Paul! You certainly educated me on the oil and some of the problems I've had in the past, i.e. clogged catalytic converter, as well as the weight on oil in summer and winter. Once again a fantastic video, thank you for sharing, have a great week.
Thanks Dan!
@@ModelA I had a 1987 F150 that had the clogged catalytic converter, costs over $300 for just the parts over 15 years ago. It was a farm truck so it was really needed to do some pulling, couldn't do it with no power.
Paul I just found your channel yesterday while watching VGG. I don't own a model A or model anything but I really enjoy your videos. I saw your video where you were toting your oxygen tank. I really hope you are getting better. Your wealth of knowledge is incredible. Thanks for your time making these videos.
I'm pretty well past that now. Thanks Larry!
As a newbie, this was extremely helpful and informative. I’ll be picking up some 10w30 synthetic tomorrow from Napa, and it’s on sale!
I love your videos, you give practical & fact-filled information!
I love old cars, but currently the only "Model A's" I have are John Deere tractors(a 1951, and a 1936 that my great-uncle bought new!)...
I appreciate that!
I had been told not to use detergent oil, I did remove the pan from my 1921 Dodge Bros buckboard, reckon there was nearly an inch of hardened sludge in the bottom. I just used a straight 30 weight after that. I have a 1924 Chev which I am getting up and running, will remove the pan and will consider running the 10/w30 synthetic. I know its not a Mod A but it will still have been designed to use the 30 weight. Mod A Fords are pretty expensive down under, but after watching your lovely videos reckon I may get one in due course. Trust all is well with you. Cheers from Down Under
I would not use multi-grade. You should use the single-grade that was specified when it was new. In really cold climates, you may have to use SAE 20, 20W, or even SAE 10W if it stays cold enough. In desert climate, you might have to use SAE 40.
Non-detergent oil is garbage. To make matters worse, somewhere along the line the non-detergent moniker became deprecated. Most oils labeled "non-detergent" today have no additives whatsoever and are basically laxative oil.
Glad to see you feeling better and puttering in the garage. Just a question related to the oil situation. Do you have an idea of how many miles you get before an oil change normally on your regular drivers?
The cars with oil filters go several thousand miles before the oil starts to get dirty, the cars without filters go anywhere from 300 to 600 miles between oil changes.
I love the outside door handles on these vintage cars, they look so fancy. Ok, the rest of the car looks nice too.
You know that should have been a 30 second video. Correct viscosity and regular oil changes is all you need to know. But I get that you need to go a little deeper for the over thinkers so they're not awake at 4 am wondering if they put the wrong oil in their Model A. 😄
I always enjoy seeing our 29 featured on a video! And hearing it, sounds so good!
Some common sense advice, thanks. While I don’t own a model a, I do have some older motorcycles and a couple of cars with flat tappet cams. I personally think the zink issue is overstated. My example is the 4.0 liter Jeep (or as I call it, the 4.0 liter AMC). It has a flat tappet cam and was produced until 2006, long after zink was removed. I have rebuilt 2 of them, never did any goofy 30 min run at 2500 rpm to break in the cam. Filled them with 10w-30, started them up and took them for a drive. I’m sure at the factory they drove them off the line, nothing special, and they are known to be a reliable engine. Just my 2 cents worth.👍
This was also before many cam manufacturers were out sourcing where their cams are made now & there has been a lot of problems with the cams being either ground wrong for lift & duration specs as well as the LSA & even ran into a guy I know where 2 lobes on his 383 cam were ground wrong so they weren't opening & closing at the correct time causing back firing on a new rebuilt engine while on the Dyno to be started & broke in then tuned before going back into his muscle car . The other problem these out sourced cams are having is they are not being surface hardend good enough so the lobes & lifters are failing because the cams are soft even on stock type low lift small duration low spring pressure cams . I know 2 guys that used Comp cams & the one mentioned above that had problems but the other guy had a fresh built SBC who broke the cam lifters & engine on the Dyno then tuned put the engine in his truck & within a couple hundred miles the cam went flat . I think he built his engine from what I hear but one thing you always check is to make sure the lifter bores are honed so the flat tappet lifters can rotate while being in the break in period or else cam & lifter failure will happen . I worked at 3 different speed shops & built quite a few engines from stock to all out drag race engines but if any of them were running a hydraulic or solid flat tappet I always broke them in with zinc & haven't had any cam failures through the years building engines one I did for a guy I know for his road runner a 451 stroker that used a 50 year old Mopar direct connection purple shaft that made 500+HP & 560 torque on pump gas & used zinc on that engine break in on the Dyno . That's what's nice about Roller cams no zinc or break in period needed plus if you don't like the cam you chose & let's say want to go bigger or smaller you can just buy another cam & use the same roller lifters again which saves money being with a flat tappet cam hydraulic or solid you need to buy new lifters again or the fact that when breaking in a new solid flat tappet cam they recommend removing the inner valve springs during break in then it all has to come apart again & the inner springs put back in again which is time consuming at the least . Zinc won't hurt anything as long as it's not used in a vehicle that has catalytic converters on it but it does help protect cams & lifters as well as helps on a engine that has non hardend valve guides to last longer.
If the valve springs are light, zinc is not needed.
Don't shoot me for comment #1 but I never noticed the difference in front/rear tire sizes until a good side view of your car.
2nd, the detergent vs non-detergent issue. We have a 55 Caddy and the engine design came from the end of the 40's. Non-Detergent oil. The oil pickup tube floats to get the cleaner oil on top, and the owners manual tells you to bring the car to your Cadillac dealer "after the winter driving season" to have the pan dropped and cleaned annually to remove sludge.
Not starting a debate with that, just confirming what you said about straight oils dropping their impurities to the bottom.
Thanks and keep the videos coming.
Thanks Jeff! It was an optical illusion, the tires are all the same size.
Just re-warched it and you are correct--- What am I saying, of course you are. The clearance is just different and it fooled me. As that car is all original and has been sitting so much, has the front spring settled a bit?
Don't know why I never noticed it before. Maybe I'm not as young as I was 30 years ago?? Na
We have a Store here in Albuquerque, New Mexico it’s called, “Family Dollar Store” they used to sell a motor oil that says, “Not intentioned for a Car/Motor after 1930! I think I still have a Quart outside in my garage. They used to sell a Transmission oil that said, “Not intended for a Transmission after 1988.” Fun stuff! There was a local news story about that, than they stopped selling it. I haven’t been back to the store since, the oil might be gone now!
I remember oil like that at Sears!
Yikes! I’d better check Costco Oil!
Good, solid information, thanks Paul.
Thanks Jay!
Paul I have used a German product called MOLLY and have found it to be of exta ordinary quality in my modern engine, quieter, smoother, instant throttle body response amazing stuff unavailable at most major stores, it should be noted I have no horse in this race and am only a customer , bet it works on MODEL A FORDS
Sounds neat!
As you said oil is a debated subject. One that will never come to a common agreement. Like you, I run what works best for me. With a lot flack, I’ve chose and run 15w40 in my flathead 6’s.
If that makes you happy, then that is the right answer!
10:11 - What a beautiful, smooth running car.
It is ridiculous, isn't it?
You are very right about zinc not being necessary in the A engine, but I have to agree to disagree with you about using multi-grade and the wisdom of using detergent oil in an engine with no oil filter.
That's a legitimate issue. I change the oil in this car so much that I don't worry about it. This is a preservation car, doesn't get driven much.
Hey Paul, Dad told me that with a model A, they have been known to take off running when you turn the key on. From what I understand, it has to do with whenever you shut the motor off, if the engine stops in a position where one of the cylinders is at TDC at the end of an intake stroke with a fresh mist of fuel/air mixture in one of the four combustion chambers, and IF the cam in the distributor is EXACTLY in the right spot where it will cause the spark plug to arc on that cylinder when you turn the key back on, it will fire on that cylinder, enough to kick the engine over and will take off running. Dad told me he’s heard of it happening, with a model A engine but only seen it happen ONCE over the 50 some odd year period of time he’s been a model A enthusiast. Ever seen or heard of this happening?
It's called a "free start". It mostly happens with Model T's. Extremely rare in a Model A.
I’ve had that happen in an old Harley I built about 10 years ago. Maybe every 3rd time I’d turn the ignition key to on, it would spin a bit and kick out some smoke from the carb.
Good video and as always great information. We are glad to see you looking healthy and happy.
I'm just glad to be seeing the grass from the top sides!
@@ModelA had a large heart attack 5 yrs ago. That ended my 30 year career in law enforcement. Changes ur out look, guess I won't live forever lol
@@JackFrost-ps2kt None of us is getting out of here alive..
@@ModelA That’s exactly what one of my dearly departed grandpas used to say. He’s now in a better place and hopefully so will all of us, God willing 😉
Great video and I applaud you for taking the chance of being flamed for taking on the subject, lol
I would love to see you send off a oil sample to Blackstone labs for a oil analysis.
I've used them a lot and it's very informative to see what's wearing and how the oil stood up to its use .
I never thought of that. Hmmm... What does everyone else think? Comment below if you want to see that!
Oil Analysis programs are cheap and a GREAT way to keep an eye on engine health. It isn't uncommon for big rig owners that drive their trucks as well to send in a sample on every change to monitor engine health.
An analysis program with someone that understands how results can vary depending on driving conditions, can really learn a lot about their engine health and it can be a great diagnostic tool on repairs, or even checking engine health before a purchase.
Depending on what is in the oil, and compared to what your engines have, can show how it is, if the bearings are splintering, too much gas is getting in, lugging too much, compression gases, etc.
I imagine that there isn't much data for Model A oil samples compared to modern engines, but building that database would be of great interest.
Something I plan to do with my own vehicles as well.
As to the comments re ventilation while you're running the engine inside the garage, and after laboriously viewing your videos, I comment is: Awe shucks! Just kidding. Nonetheless, we need to see more of that lady that helped you push your cars around. You know. Anyway, I think you're right on about the oil question. Nice videos, clearly filmed/recorded, good clean sound, easy to understand and sound advise/information. Keep it up. Thanks, Charlie in NC.
Thanks Charlie!
Nice video. I would add the need for additives to protect the engine from condensate mixing with the bad chemicals to form acids. The time between changes should be way more then 500 miles as it is noted the oils today are much better then in 1930. As for the switch from detergent oil. Usually the problems that people have are from the old worn engines. The sludge is keeping the engine quiet. They run detergent oil and suddenly the engine makes noise. We dont drive most A's enough where wear or oil issues are going to be a factor. Honestly, most A engines fail because they were not built right. The moral of the story is buy any quality oil and dont change to too often. A comment on fuel. With my 65 Mustang I had a bit of a loop in the engine (the 6 cyl) when parading on hot days. I switched to a top teir fuel (happens to be Gulf) and that problem went away. I also found using that kind of fuel in my lawnmower it would just start easy in the spring. I also noted it smelled right in the spring and I remember the cheap fuel I bought did not smell right. So I try to avoid low quality fuel like Sam's or WaWa (hey I am in NJ).
There's no such thing as low quality fuel. All fuel is refined generally in the same place and then additives are put in by different manufacturers. But that doesn't mean they're low quality. 87 octane is 87 no matter where it comes from.
I AGREE 110% 30W oil ( or maybe 30/40, for topping up ) but NOT modern thin oil never ever for a Model A!!!! I agree Zinc for older engines!!!!
Even with late model cars just stay with manufactures recommended oil, TOP QUALITY oil and Filter modern DOHC engines NEED thin oil to oil too the cams ASAP on start up, GOOD servicing is the KINDEST for modern engines.
The only concern I have for multi weight oil to work at the rated hot weight the oil needs to reach about 196 degrees. 30 weight was recommended for cooler climates and 40 weight for southern and western climates as per Ford. I wouldn't use a multi weight unless you drive it frequently and long trips
Another great video Paul. I enjoy them all.
Many thanks Harvey
As an auto-mechanic, who has 35 years of experience in automotive service work I can tell you that just use what your car’s manufactures list in the owners manual. Does not matter if it’s a model T or a 2023, Ferrari what they recommend is what the motor was designed to use. As I ran a modern synthetic 10 w30 in my 240 inline 6 that my 1965 Ford F-100 had, and never had an issue due to motor oil along with unleaded gasoline in it when they stopped selling leaded gasoline. As long as you keep your fluids and filters changed on a regular bases, you’ll drive that car till the wheels fall off. But don’t let your wheels get so bad they fall off.
The motor oil recommended in the Model A manual hasn't been made for almost 30 years. Also, it was grossly inferior to even the cheapest oil made today. It's OK to think on your own sometimes and go with what logic dictates is best. 35 years experience or 100 years experience, doesn't matter if you aren't thinking your way through it and juat blindly following the manual. Well, to be fair, any car made in the last 20 years, I agree with you. But cars made before WW2, you have to be your own man.
@Paul Shinn, great video on the oil, could you do one on the coolant/antifreeze types?
Nice job on what oil to use in the model a ford
Thanks Clyde!
Great Video!!! Thanks for sharing.. love it!!
Thank you!
I remember buying some motor oil from the Dollar store once and I read the back and it said this oil complies with specifications for cars made prior to 1930! I think I got it for my Chevette which was in a condition that it didn’t make much difference what kind of oil I used just that it had some in it. Not that easy as it leaked plenty 🙃
Neat!! Thanks Paul
That's an SA oil, completely unadditized. Some states have actually banned that stuff from ever being labeled as "motor oil".
@@gregorymalchuk272 it was for my old Chevette. Just something to let you read the oil level on the dipstick 🙃 Even so I had more that 250k miles on that car and it still ran good with no engine work. The reason I don’t have it still is because a tree fell on it.
Very good oil info Paul! Tom
Thanks Tom!
Thanks Paul.. Take care.. God bless
Thanks, God bless you too!
Thank for time,great video.
OK Paul, as far as using detergent vs. non-detergent oils, use what the car has had in it. If detergent oil is used in a car that has had non-detergent oil in it, as I was told, removes deposits behind rings on the pistons and can cause oil consumption. Also, using synthetic oil or natural in my particular car can cause oil consumption also. So, I stick with what is recommended by the manufacturer. BTW, as a senior, my car doesn't go far everyday and that can be considered rough service.
"Deposits behind rings" is something I have been hearing for decades. When a fellow engineer and I studied that, we found out it was wives tales. Rings either seat or they don't, and if anything is hiding behind a ring, it's gone pretty quickly. Sticking with what the manufacturer recommends is good on new stuff, but with these 92+ year old motors, keep in mind the manufacturer recommended oil that is so bad, you cannot even buy it anymore.
@@ModelA The problem I have with using detergent in an engine with no oil filter is the fact that any dirt and grit will be held in suspension, circulating, allowing it to cause added wear. With non-detergent, much of it will settle to the bottom of the pan. If you have an oil filter, detergent is good because that filter will trap the grit and dirt, and the detergents in the oil will keep everything clean.
@@michaelbenardo5695 Yes, to a point. However, I never let the oil in this car get dirty. The other Model As that get driven a lot have oil filters added.
@@michaelbenardo5695The crap that they sell as "non detergent" today has NO ADDITIVE PACKAGE. No anti-wear, no corrosion inhibitors, no anti-foaming agents, no nothing. It's not suitable in ANY engine. Some states have actually banned it from even being labeled as "motor oil".
The same oil as I use in my old air cooled kombis, the cheapest and change it often.
I really would have assumed you would run Shell Rotella T1 30 much like the air cooled VW world does. That said 10w-30 is my second choice for air cooled and winter use.
Air cooled VW's run a lot hotter than liquid cooled Model A's do (no thermostat).
@@ModelA True Oil temp should be under 250F on a VW. You have highlighted one feature the VW has the Model A doesn't a thermostat.
@@soundman447 In the summer, my model A's run a out 140 to 160 degrees. In the winter I don't know because they don't even move the thermometer.
I was told non-detergent for years but switched to 5w regular without problem so far
Very informative! If the lubrication system is not pressurized, does the oil filter work by gravity?
Oil filter goes between the oil pump and the valve galley. It's all gravity and splash after that.
@@ModelA Yup, if the filter is in the wrong place, it is just wishful thinking.
I have a blue 1928 Model A Phaeton. I am looking to move along.
It has been in my family since 1928!!!
It was nicely restored by my dad, Frank H Gardner of Newton ,MA.
Not sure if my kids will take it on yet , but when they decide
where best to advertise?
Do you know of any possible takers who are looking for such a car?
Thanks,
Nan Powlison
Glenside PA
Great info for a motor head here !
Fantastic! Such a lovely car too.
Thanks Stefan!
Modern day motor oil has 800 to 850 ppm zinc as you say to protect the catalytic convertor racing oils depending on the brand have 1200 to 2500 ppm zinc they do caution against using in a car with catalytic convertor.
99% agree. The one percent is not worth an argument. 👍
Very well done Paul!! THANK YOU much appreciated!!
Now if the nay-sayers want to shed doubt and argue,,, well let them run wild! I subscribe to YOUR way of thinking 100% , have for years!!
Yep! You're right Jeff. I have always said, " today's worst oil is WAY better than 1930's best oil. "
I have a question, sir, about the gasoline.
As you're driving on "normal" gas I suppose you mean "unleaded 95 octane".
In Europe we have only the choice between "normal" 95 octane gas and 98 octane "super" gas. (and of course Diesel but this is not to the point here). That gas can contain ethanol.
If you are running on "unleaded" (95), did you adapt the valve-seats to unleaded gas or are you using additives ?
just have to chuckle a wee little bit at people going on about manufacturer recommendations concerning motor oil of a car built quite nearly a full century ago ;)
It cracks me up every time also!
I see you are changing the oil with a cold engine. Way back, I was told it was better to change the oil with a warm engine, but that applied to modern cars I learned basic mechanics on at night school. I used the same procedures on my first A I purchased in 1978 but sold 29 years ago. I just go back into the hobby and it is time for my first Oil change. Should I be changing the oil, warm or cold? Or does it really not matter?
Doesn't matter. I hear arguments for both ways, but it truly doesn't matter if you're patient and let it drain all the way. If you're in a rush, do it warm. But in a gravity feed motor, you will get a less complete oil change if you have just ran it.
Great video beautiful car
love this guy
He loves you back
You’ve opened a can of worms!! 😂🤣 Great explanation. On aircooled motors such as Harley Davidsons, old Porsche and VWs the argument against synthetic was that these motors are air and oil cooled and that conventional oil has the capability to absorb heat and go through the oil cooler and shed it; whereas synthetic does not. I am not sure if that has changed.
A radioactive can of worms!
That was another myth. Manufacturer's of many air cooled engines such as Honda, Yamaha, Kohler, Briggs and Stratton, and Harley Davidson all offer their own synthetic oil.
@@paulzumpf3612 Thanks for the clarification; this was years ago.
My only issue with synthetic oil in a Harley was in my Shovelhead. I used it for a while(including riding 630mi one-way to a certain famous motorcycle rally) and I started to have oil leaks show up. I switched back to conventional oil after that...
I don't know about new Harleys, but the old ones were made to use SAE 50. Not 20W-50, but straight 50. That's what my brother always used in his, and he never had any lubrication problems, but those who wanted to use 10W-40 or something DID have problems.
Since the Vicky has SUCH a bad case of blow by, I’m using 20w50 in an effort to keep a bit more oil in the crankcase! lol
Using the synthetic oil you use developed a lot of leaks in this old beasty and the blow by was S-O bad that I was choking on the smoke through the floor boards!
I look forward to Spring when I can pull this engine and send it out of State to be rebuilt!
Yikes! Well, when you get to that point, you have to use whatever works.
As a renowned scientist, petroleum engineer, along with many nominations for NpP I can tell you I’m lying and don’t really know a damn thing about oil other than don’t let it get too low, nor over fill it.
Paul publish a list of the oils you've tested, then ask your subscribers to vote on the oil that we think your tests will show is best for a Ford Model-A
That would be an awesome way to do this! Unfortunately, I didn't even think about that. Drat. I used some simple engineering though and shared it in digestible terms. We will see how much I get beat up on it!
@@ModelA Paul the majority of your subscribers know you to be an expert on the Ford model-A, your intelligent and put together good troubleshooting technique in your day job and on your automobiles, it's obvious to that you have the ability of doing good research. I suspect you will come up with a very viable way of checking Oil for or 100-year-old engine design the Ford family should adopt you my friend.
Before electric block heaters or electricity on the farm ... how to start that A in minus forty degree temps?.. Pull the battery.. Drain the oil.. Place both beside the woodstove. Next morning... replace battery.. Replace oil... and away ya go! Gotta love that straight thirty weight.👍
@@mackfisher4487 If Ford ever adopts me, I will put in a good word for you too!!
@@RaysLaughsAndLyrics That's funny and pretty true. I have started a Model A in below freezing temps before, but never 40 below zero.
Paul, keyboard cowboys, conspiracy theorist, we wouldn't flame you we love your channel. I did have a preconception because of the per-video announcement of Paul and Tina in lab coats with Bunsen burners heating various samples of oil. One should never give credence to preconceptions, or as Friday on Dragnet used to "say just the facts ma'am just the facts". Enjoyed your video they keep getting better.
Thank you Mack! We don't want anyone to know about our matching lab coats... Shhh...
Great video! As a lot of people already said. Every engine oil today is better than what was around in the 30´s. I´ve never understood why people insists running 20w50 in classic cars when they usually were designed for 30.
I have a question about the fuel. You said you don´t run any additives. How come the engine doesn´t need it? Is it because of the low valve spring pressure? I´ve always ran lead substitue additive in older engines that don´t have hardened valve seats.
Leaded gas came after the Model A.
@@ModelA Ok, I didn´t know that. You learn something new every day.. :)Thanks for the answer.
@@johanankarback6821 usually people run such thick oil because they are getting a car that has a worn out engine from a combination of age and abusive driving. Too many people treat all old cars like hotrod muscle cars, or simply push them too hard trying to keep up with modern traffic. Not only in top speed but especially acceleration.
Since later cars have a pressurized oil system, they have to run thicker oils just to maintain pressure after so many years of abuse.
For the rebuilt engines, they'll do it and brag about the oil pressures, not realizing their actually harming the engine by sending half their oil right back to the pan through the check valve.
Something Packard understood even in the 20's, was that thinner oils make better power and better engines. But, due to manufacturing and supply limitations, their production engines used comparable oil for the era. Only in the last decade or two has engine manufacturing really embraced light oils, to the point of even 0 weight, in an effort to get as much efficiency and better emissions from their engines.
Given the choice though, they would prefer to continue making more "sloppy" engines that use thicker oils because they are cheaper to produce, heh. But, EPA demands otherwise.
@@ModelA I think the first leaded came out in about 1933.
Probably because they don't realize that single-grade is still available, and are afraid that 10W-30 will be too thin if not hot.
Zinc (ZDDP) wasn't added to motor oils until the early 1950s long after the Model A
Yep. Basically, after WW2.
I like 10w30 synthetics too. There are practically no viscosity index modifyers on them.
Depending on application I would agree. Personally I wouldn't for an engine if this age. If you're talking late 50's on, I completely agree
I would not use multi-grade in an engine like the Model A engine. Engines with Full-Pressure, like the Ford V8, Ok, but for the A, I would stick with single-grade oil.
Older video with good info. I always smile to myself when people say "I'm an engineer". I too am an engineer, chemical engineer. I can't tell you how many times people ask me about wiring because I'm an "engineer".
Hahaa!! I'm an electrical engineer with studies in chemistry and physics. People always ask me about torque!
I do not own a model A, but I am a fan of the car and the channel. I agree with everything you said about the oil, but not so sure about the gas. These engines were expecting lead in the gas right? You thoughts would be respected and appreciated.
Leaded gas came after the Model A.
I took my car to the mechanic this week, because my battery died, and I haven't been able to open the back door for at least two years, and the little flashing sign that lets you know it's time to get the car checked by a professional has been on for 3 months. And as I was leaving my dirt coverd car with that poor soul I though to myself: Paul wouldn't like this one bit, no sir...
Hahahaaa!! Right you are.
I just use good ole 10-30 in my 29.
I do the cheapest 15w40 in my 29 can find
Oils labeled "Full Synthetic" may contain little to no actual synthetic oil but rather highly refined and synthesized mineral oils. True synthetic oils are labeled "100% Synthetic". There is a huge difference in cost between the two.
true, it is a marketing term. Look it up.
If it's on sale, then I don't care. Neither does the Model A. But you're right. If I was driving Ferraris around, then I would be paying close attention for sure.
Vitamins & dinosaurs 😏
Holy guacamole!! YOU watch my crummy videos??!!! This feller is not worthy!!
@@ModelA you have a great presentation. Don't change a thing.
@@ViceGripGarage Coming from you, that is the highest compliment ever. Thank you SO much! If you're ever out my way and want to drive a stock Model A around, just say the word. Let's collab!!
*Mountain Region Model A Club President Jim McCartney (sadly now deceased) poured new babbit bearings in my engine. I asked him what oil to use, and he replied by asking me what oil I used in my everyday modern car. I replied 5w30, and President Jim said to use that same oil in the Model A. Two things originally used in Model A days are not possible to be used now, Paint and Motor Oil. The reason we cannot use the original paint and motor oil is because the worst paint and motor oil we can buy today are much better than the best paint and motor oil that was available in l931. Thanks.
Jim sounds like one of those super smart guys we really regret losing.
You sir are a brave soul! 😆😆
I have something better than bravery- Autism!! Always paying attention to details and not worrying about what critics think of me. And no emotions.
@@ModelA that sounds great. Maybe I should get me some of that. Haha
Autism is my Super Power! But I think God is the one who hands that out. I don't know where else to get it.
I am considering straight 30W. In my old mower flatheads (mostly Kohler and Briggs) when I run a multi weight oil, 5W30 in winter, they send a small amount through muffler. Does the model A burn a bit of multi weight oil? My mowers with 30W in summer use next to none with engine in good condition. I have a commercial OHV Kawasaki pusher with 24 years on 30W.
30W ND is what is recommended on engines that do not have an oil filter.
I use DELO SAE 30 in everything I own
I use Delo 30 or Delo 10 30 winter
I’m supposing switching to a synthetic you would need to drop the pan and clean it, where would one go from there or is not recommend on an engine with unknown miles on it?
I sure would.
Is non-ethanol gas available in your are and if so do you use it without exception, only when it’s convenient, or not at all?
It is completely unavailable in my area, so I have no choice.
those things will run on anything thats thin enough to pour.
Thank you
Thank YOU!
Perfect.
I hope this is allowed-I have a question on zinc as it pertains to a stock flathead V8 (1940). Is it necessary? Thank you.
Yes, it is allowed, we are here to help! Stock flathead V8 ran without zinc just fine when new, still will. Once you start modifying it with a different grind cam or stiffer valve springs, zinc will help keep the cam lobes from wearing prematurely. But even stock, putting zinc will not hurt anything.
@@ModelA Thank you very much. I saw a lot of posts about using oil with zinc in it in flatheads, and was concerned I was doing it wrong on this time (I never heard of zinc in motor oil until very recently and have never used oil with zinc in it). Thank you again sir!
I am curious, you mentioned putting a circuit breaker in the fuse holder, do you have another video that talks about that item? I am asking because I do maintenance on a 29 for a friend of mine, a circuit breaker that replaced a glass tube fuse interests me.
It doesn't need a video. It is a plug-in replacement for the glass fuse. Bert's Model A Store sells them, so do others. Easy!
@@ModelA Thank you for the information, I greatly appreciate it.
I wonder if there would be anything to gain by adapting a PVC setup to help maybe keep the oil cleaner?
The Model A block is already vented, probably not.
So I am building a hodge podge car using a 1920 Hupmobile and a Model A drive train (just because I pretty much have all the parts). What is your opinion on a higher compression head? And what is the point of no return
A 5.5:1 head is a pretty nice way to go without beating up the lower end or making it run weird. Just remember, the higher the compression you go, the more picky the timing will be. 6:1 is a bit too much for a stock babbit A motor, in my opinion. I just run stock heads myself. I don't like when the timing gets so picky that my wife gets intimidated by it.
@@ModelA thank you, I trust your opinion.
I love all Model As (and if I am being honest most everything old regardless of brand) and this little car is just because I have all the parts lying around scattered in my shed, garage and back patio, I figured it would be fun to cruise it around like a "hot rod" since the pickup you see in my avatar is costing me a fortune to put together doing it right.
Edit: As for timing or tunability I am totally comfortable with it taking some effort it's part of the fun (I am a mechanic). I got a 05 Dodge truck if I just want to drive without any issues.
Did you install oil filters on all your A’s? Do you update to bearing inserts or still use the original babbet bearings?
The cars that get driven a lot get oil filters. I do all inserts now.
Rotella 30wt for me.
Paul, I didn’t hear at how many miles do you change the oil, and did you install an oil filter in this car?
ALL original = No oil filter. I change oil when it starts to look dirty. Thanks!