This discussion was delicious - it’s entire thread was based on honesty, toleration, common sense and a profound belief in human nature. I’m signing up to the SDP. Pah! to ideology and hypocracy. Marion
Couldn't disagree more. What you call common sense I call suicidal denialism. He wants the state to comprise +40% of the economy! Abolish individual rights as the basis of society? Perfect, no genocide ever sprang from group rights. It's madness albeit politely postulated. Still agree to disagree.
@@themeatt625 privatisation of the health service and utilities has not worked. It leads to the exploitation of tax payers and patients by shareholders, prevents us from taking control of environmental issues and leaves our communications open to undemocratic control eg China and 5G.
@@themeatt625 It's not about abolishing individual rights and choice. It sees us as individuals within the context of responsibility to others. We are social animals not atoms.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Finally a party that makes sense to me. Everything he said resonated. I will definitely be taking a look into signing up. I do fear though that the MSM will eat this party alive once they get any media attention. If Lab and Cons vote collapses further, they may have to start listening to other voices though.
Excellent stuff id never heard William speak before . As an undecided voter he has new fan in me definitely thinking of voting sdp very common sense honest opinions 👍
This hasn't had anywhere near enough views. What a fantastically articulate man William Clouston is... I wonder if I've just found my political home...
What an interesting interview. Well done guys. Williams centrist views appeal to me as a pragmatist but his stance on democracy and respect of the democratic process are what spoke to me the most. It's driving me mad to figure out where I have heard him speak before but as I'm in Newcastle, it must be locally. I'll certainly be researching the SDP and their policies in the near future. Again, well done for another gripping interview.
I'm an American who considers himself currently a Republican. Mr. Clouston sounds very sensible to me, I liked the vast majority of what he talked said. Very interesting conversation.
Another fantastic discussion. How refreshing to be able to hear a politician given the opportunity to actually explain their beliefs etc without continuous hectoring. Thank you guys! SDP clearly the grown ups in the room at the moment. Long term thinking and planning so far has been cast adrift from mainstream political debate. I’d like to think the public are aware of the negative impact of years of this approach. The answer to why we don’t see or hear more about the SDP on MSM etc is of course that they are pro Leave. BBC can’t possibly give them a platform on QT etc.
..Family, neighbourhood., community, town,country. What we've always had. It makes countries what they are. I must read John Grey. I'll soon be a member of the SDP
Another splendid interview, my friends. To steal one of your lines ... honest conversations with interesting people. I may have said already but you fellows give me hope; you’re a calm centre in a storm of extremist “reee”, showing that serious matters can be discussed in detail with no raised voices or unproductive talking over each other exchanges.
Immigration in the words of Prof Richard Wolff is a subsidy for employers and I share Rod Liddle’s bewilderment at the Left’s total denial of its exploitative nature. Marion
I know. Corbyn, as a lifelong Eurosceptic (now turned) tried to address this problem with exploitation and was ridiculously shouted down as a racist by liberals in the Labour Party.
24:50 FF… if only you knew then what was going to happen… As for the rest of it, I really resonate with the message that Clouston is trying to spread and honestly I think that it’s not quite being heard enough yet because if the masses heard him then they’d vote for him no question. I’d love for you guys to bring him back onto the show and get an updated interview that should hopefully be seen by a lot more eyes.
Another good show guys, i'm really liking the diversity of viewpoints in your various guests. It's also good to hear so many smaller party representatives talking about political reform now, Clouston is right that an alliance to push this issue is much needed and should be something of a priority once Brexit is out of the way.
There's a bit of water gone under the bridge since this interview! Any chance you can get @WilliamClouston on again to give his thoughts on not just pandemic Britain but also what they're going to do to grow the SDP "brand" and become a relevant alternative to Red, Blue and Yellow.
If ever a country needed social conservatism and social democratic economics,ours is it ! We are being ripped apart in different directions by multiple forces much of it self inflicted,and I don’t see a happy outcome. In my opinion we are seeing the outcome of unrestrained Liberal social and economic policies boil over. We will work together to fix our country I’m not sure, but things will get worse before getting better. Divided houses never stand ! Ps I don’t recall the founders of the SDP to be very socially conservative Roy Jenkins for example scrapped preventative policing. Shirley Williams lead the charge for our failed Comprehensive Education System scrapping the Attlee/Bevin thoughts on Grammar Tech and secondary modern which were socially conservative actions.
@historypoliticsbb Labour and no longer on the left, they are far left and unrecognisable to the old Northern Labour voter. SDP are a credible alternative to the Tories as the Labour Party become more and more detached from actual Labourers and more attached to identity politics ...RIP the Labour Party :(
Another excellent guest! I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said... which as a UKIP supporter seems rather unlikely as I am frequently told I am on the far far ultra far turbo plus uber N*zi right somewhere in the vicinity of certain fascistic pug dogs.
I'm left of centre on economics, but right on social issues and I support UKIP.
5 лет назад
It's a sad situation when we can't even use certain terms without triggering the progressive censor bots on RUclips that are programmed to think they are offensive. What happened to fr33 sp33ch?
@ It got turned into hate speech to shut down political debate on important issues and protect certain groups from criticism. If history is to be any guide, this strategy will not work and indeed will eventually result in the very opposite effect the censors wish to achieve. It's all going to "come out sideways" as Dangerfield puts it and I don't think he is far wrong. Those wrapped in cotton wool become weak while the resolve of the outcasts grows stronger.
I feel like I'm always saying this, but why does the UK want to stay in the EU so bad? Or should I say, why do 1/4 of the people want to stay in the EU? As an American, this confuses me. What does the EU give the UK that the UK can't get on it's own? As an independent nation, or a commonwealth, you could still make all of the trade deals you want, you could still aid the mainland in times of emergency, and best of all, you could set your own priorities as it pertains to immigration. You could attract the best and brightest to your shores, and not have to worry about the people that are just coming to mooch off of your treasures. But then, i don't understand why my government wants the same thing, why it doesn't want to attract the best and brightest, and only seeks to bring in the morons that could never hold down a job. Even though we haven't been in anyway attached to the UK since 1776, we have let bygones be bygones and have worked together to make the world a better place. I guess that's why I so bothered by all this. You want to go from being free, to being a vassal state of the German Empire. (because face it, we all know that Momma Merkel runs it all by proxy from Brussels. What she want's she gets.) I can understand the French giving in, since they've never won a war since Bonaparte, but the UK has always been strong, been almost blessed with righteousness, but now wants to be slaves. What did I miss? Does the free travel between the 27 member states of the EU mean that much, does it bring that much money to England's shores? Or does it only bring misery?
The general consensus of the post-war political class in the UK has been to adopt a 'managed decline' mindset (apart from Mrs Thatcher). So the elite like the idea of joining one big bland supra-national state. They don't have to take on so much responsibility for governing us... I had never seen any super enthusiastic pro-EU sentiment from the general public until after the referendum. All the 2nd referendum / pro-EU protests are driven by people who hate Brexit. They certainly didn't care that much about our EU membership beforehand.
*@Joseph White* I've found it very difficult to get a good answer from anyone committed to the idea that Britain should stay in the EU as to what it is they actually love so much about it. Much of what I hear tends to be based purely on emotion, and that includes from all the people I once respected who've effectively been rendered into gibbering morons prepared to die on the incredibly bizarre hill that is defending a gigantic bureaucratic superstate, a position that stands against everything their intelligence might suggest of them. It really is Pod People-level stuff.
There is no real good reason to want to stay in the EU. There's a weak pragmatic argument that it'll be a whole lot of bother so we might as well stay in. Then there's the fact that the middle classes don't want their holidays to Europe to be more expensive, or more of a hassle (i.e. having to fill in an extra form). Then there's the political elite, who don't want the hassle of leaving, don't want more responsibilities, don't want to end freedom of movement (an endless supply of cheap labour), and were possibly hoping to have well paid careers in the EU parliament towards the end of their political careers.
There are many conspiracy theories about globalism surrounding the whole Brexit, EU struggle. I generally shy away from things like that, but given the current political goings on, fuck it seems half ass reasonable.
The Tories dropped the ball socially and with regards to Brexit, not because they’re worried about the electorate being upset or the Tory rank and file revolting, but because they are guided by the headlines in the mainstream media. Since Blair, political wisdom has been all about spin and ensuring the avoidance of bad press whilst spinning the best headlines possible. Had they embraced the task of Brexit, stood fast by their promise to reduce mass immigration, supported the family and championed a patriotic vision, they would’ve won by a landslide and had a very happy membership. But the media would’ve crucified them and that is what mainstream parties worry almost solely about. What Newsnight, the Today program, Channel 4 News, the Guardian and Independent will say about them. God forbid they get called racist! They will do anything not to be called racist by the mainstream media. They will even commit political suicide for the tiny minority of lefty elites who run the media and consider breathing whilst white to be a little too much like Mosley
The point about capital punishment was a good one. I think Clouston could have argued that macro-expertise does exist on this point. We have the data about the number of people exonerated for crimes they did not commit. Had they been killed, they couldn’t have been exonerated. The large number of false positives is not a matter for public debate or value judgments. A value judgment is still needed to decide whether or not we want capital punishment, but at least we have good predictive accuracy on the number of false positives, thereby legitimising the drawing of a moral red line. In the case of Brexit, we don’t have accurate data regarding consequences, so its harder for people to draw a moral red line.
Another superb interview. Not happy at all with the answer on the death penalty though. If there is a vote then the majority decision must be implemented. You can't sit there and say with regards to Brexit/death penalty 'they're different types of decision so I would honour one and not the other'. The whole point is that everyone has different lines in the sand that they would draw. Voting against the death penalty as an MP after a majority vote in favour is tyrannical rule by an elite few, exactly why many Brexiteers are calling parliament fascist/undemocratic. It doesn't matter what your own personal moral standpoint is, democracy must be upheld. Otherwise we are simply living under the learned moral code of a few of hundred MP's, which as we know is rarely the same as the wider public. Not what I would call democracy. Incidentally I am strongly in favour of Brexit and pretty indifferent about the death penalty - we virtually have it already in life sentences. There's not much difference to me in dying there and then and sitting in a cell for the rest of your life.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought what he was saying was that he wouldn't want a public vote on the death penalty, rather than he wouldn't implement a vote if there was one? I don't really have a problem with murderers being put to death, but I'm 100% against the death penalty because there are always cases where a convicted "murderer" is later proven innocent and released. Being wrongfully imprisoned must be bloody awful, but you can't undo a hanging.
@@kayoss2306 he said both - he wouldn't support a public vote on it, and wouldn't vote to implement it after a majority public vote in favour. I'd be curious to see what the outcome would be but that's about it. Agreed on the false convictions, although I'm sure that's a very small number of cases. For it to make a major difference, the conviction has to be overturned pretty quickly anyway - sitting in jail for 30 years for something you didn't do would have a huge effect on the mind, even if you were released after. But I suppose that is marginally better than finding someone innocent that has already been put to death.
I'm glad he got concrete on the school run program. I was going to complain that he was being too vague, even in the deceleration, about what "the community not the individual" means. Sadly i see why politicians don't get concrete as this example has made me clearly not want to vote for him. I'm very opposed to forcing everyone to do something as people's different skills/needs aren't accounted for by that, while individual choice does account for such things. That's a very liberal view, I know.
"the modern Tory is basically some sort of free market liberal" This is genuinely interesting stuff. As a right winger I'm starting to be willing to toss out a lot of the "muh low corporate tax rates" stuff that the Tories forced voters to take as a package deal in order to get social conservative policies.
It's funny, I'm a more traditional left-winger (as opposed to the current looney left) and I've been willing to vote for parties with more right-wing economic policies, because the socially conservative bit feels much more important to me. I think this is exactly why parties like UKIP and the Brexit Party (as well as the Brexit question in general) are uniting people on the left and right.
@@kayoss2306 yeah I agree if the UK spent another 2billion pounds a year on the NHS and increased tax a bit. While it lowered immigration and had pro family policies I would take that over drag queen story time and less tax
It would be great if you guys could get someone who is pro-Land Value taxation (accompanied by the elimination of most if not all other taxes), Fred Harrison or Dr. Roger Sandilands from landresearchtrust.org could be very informative. It would put another perspective on the perceived need for more council houses.
I really like this show. You are bringing up important issues. Sometimes though, you make me wonder. Francis you're walking the line between comdian, journalist, and host. You'll have to decide eventually. Why wait 50 minutes to talk about Brexit? Why not just bring it up? You can do that you know. Just man up Francis. And get a hair cut. Or grow it out. But eventually you'll have to decide.
58:51 I disagree that the "parity maniacs" care that much about the distribution of people from different classes. It's the one thing that the overwhelmingly bourgeois middle-class types that tend to push such ideas are suspiciously quiet about.
Good to see someone pushing for soc con / econ left position but it's definitely not what I'd vote for. I say, with all the censorship and identity politics we have, that there isn't enough "me me me."
Interesting guy. He advocates for a bit too much govt intervention, at least in housing, for my taste, but that could be due to my not being a Brit. Still, imminently reasonable and extremely erudite. I'd definitely hear him out. Guys, yet another great show!
I've always believed that some things do need more govt intervention or protection and everything else should be left to the market. The idea that our energy and water supplies should be owned and controlled by foreign entities is absurd. Look at how much control Putin has. He just turns down the gas and we have to do what he wants. Our water systems need massive structural investment but this doesn't happen because short term profits are more important to shareholders. So then we get issues with water quality and sewage run off. Some things are too important to be left to the whims of the globalists and the money markets
Why do people believe they don't have a say in EU legislation ? UK has 73 deputies in the EU Parliement and voted all treaties. You guys voted. Chinese ppl didn't.
When Konstantin said I don’t hear a big thing that hits me (paraphrasing of course) Doesn’t that in of its self show up a big problem. We the voter have become addicted to the sound bite the false advertising/narrative.
This guy is fascinating to listen to. I'd argue he's the perfect case study for a politician trying to play by the old rules who doesn't properly understand the shifts that have happened in the last ten years. He mentions identity politics but calls everything he doesn't like liberalism. He needs to watch Sargon's video illiberal liberals and learn about the differences between group and individual rights and how identity politics has erased the sense of community and family and attacked British identity which is what he wants.
It's infuriating to be in violent agreement with the SDP on social issues, and even some economic policy like more social housing and railway nationalisation, but they're just too left-wing on economics for me to fully back. Also, disagree on constitutional issues like voting reform and referenda. Might vote for them, but - WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS A CONSERVATIVE PARTY FOR FUCK SAKE.
Social Democratic Party? What? Last time I heard the phrase 'Social Democratic Party', the phrase 'I'm surging, David, I'm surging!' was involved. What's going on right now?
Is there really such an ocean of difference between the SDP New Declaration and the For Britain manifesto? Read them together. Just a question of emphasis it seems. A political consensus is closer than we think if we can just get rid of our outdated parliamentary tribalism.
UKIP want to nationalise the railways, free university tuition for STEMM subjects, scrap the ATOS assessments for disability benefits. They have some very left wing economic policies. They also have some more right wing ones (reducing certain taxes). I think UKIP are pretty centrist really, they take ideas from both sides.
5 лет назад
Oh really? I never found much out about UKIP watching watching coverage of them from the BBC. I got the impression that their policies were just r@pe jokes, n@zi pugs and Rommy Tobinson.
"I like individualism but I don't like the decisions people make and I think I know better than other people so we need to have social constructionism"... What a crock.
Did you watch the video? He said that he feels individualism has gone too far in recent years both socially and economically and that a redress is needed to focus on community, more us and less me. It is not an either/or, it is more nuanced than you want to make it. He represents a political party in a democracy, of course he is going to say he thinks he knows what to do since that how it works. If you think he does know, you vote for him.
@@GGTutor1 I did and I disagree. When did these people become our "leaders" and attain the right to adjust all of our lives rather than being our representatives? Probably around the same time that people figured out they can vote for people who will give them personal advantages. It seems like the people who are winning are the ones that are saying "the people know best and should be allowed to decide", you know like how the Brexit party just did? I don't need civic lessons and criticisms about simplifying someone's stance from someone who simplifies our governmental systems into "democracy". They are more complicated than that...
@@darthstigater6642 "When did these people become our "leaders" and attain the right to adjust all of our lives rather than being our representatives? Probably around the same time that people figured out they can vote for people who will give them personal advantages." -----We live in a representative democracy, that's how it works. They represent AND lead. "It seems like the people who are winning are the ones that are saying "the people know best and should be allowed to decide", you know like how the Brexit party just did?" -----Yes, populist parties are rising because a large number of people feel their views are not being represented in our current system with two parties dominating that are refusing to follow an act of direct democracy in the referendum. They want better representatives. I, for example, am economically centre left and socially centre right. I am also a leaver. I feel i have no representation in the current parties available, until I just became aware of the SDP. I am not sure what you disagree with in the video, are you advocating direct democracy? Do you not want 'leaders'? I am genuinely interested in your take on the video, but am unsure what your issue with it is.
@@GGTutor1 no, I want people to stop thinking that the government is going to fix their problems for them due to the "leader" that they elect. I don't have any problems with the video. I just don't like what the guy said and expressed it by writing a snarky comment about it.
@@darthstigater6642 OK thanks for replying. I completely agree with you that we should vote on policy and principle and not on the personality or charisma of the leader.
I signed up as a member a few months ago. Found my Political home in the SDP
Me too
This discussion was delicious - it’s entire thread was based on honesty, toleration, common sense and a profound belief in human nature. I’m signing up to the SDP. Pah! to ideology and hypocracy. Marion
Couldn't disagree more. What you call common sense I call suicidal denialism. He wants the state to comprise +40% of the economy! Abolish individual rights as the basis of society? Perfect, no genocide ever sprang from group rights. It's madness albeit politely postulated. Still agree to disagree.
@@themeatt625 yes those genocidal hell holes in Scandinavia wouldn't be so awful if the state didn't comprise well above 40% of the economy.
@@themeatt625 privatisation of the health service and utilities has not worked. It leads to the exploitation of tax payers and patients by shareholders, prevents us from taking control of environmental issues and leaves our communications open to undemocratic control eg China and 5G.
@@themeatt625 It's not about abolishing individual rights and choice. It sees us as individuals within the context of responsibility to others. We are social animals not atoms.
@@themeatt625 you watched the entire interview and this is the conclusion you came to? Fucking hell
Konstantin you were great on Good Morning Britain 👍
He killed it.
Well, that's my Sunday night sorted! ♥️
You guys rock!✊
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Finally a party that makes sense to me. Everything he said resonated. I will definitely be taking a look into signing up. I do fear though that the MSM will eat this party alive once they get any media attention. If Lab and Cons vote collapses further, they may have to start listening to other voices though.
Excellent stuff id never heard William speak before . As an undecided voter he has new fan in me definitely thinking of voting sdp very common sense honest opinions 👍
This hasn't had anywhere near enough views. What a fantastically articulate man William Clouston is... I wonder if I've just found my political home...
What an interesting interview. Well done guys. Williams centrist views appeal to me as a pragmatist but his stance on democracy and respect of the democratic process are what spoke to me the most.
It's driving me mad to figure out where I have heard him speak before but as I'm in Newcastle, it must be locally. I'll certainly be researching the SDP and their policies in the near future.
Again, well done for another gripping interview.
The New Declaration is a great place to start - sdp.org.uk/new-declaration/
Then the policies of course. sdp.org.uk/policies/
I'm an American who considers himself currently a Republican. Mr. Clouston sounds very sensible to me, I liked the vast majority of what he talked said. Very interesting conversation.
Another fantastic discussion.
How refreshing to be able to hear a politician given the opportunity to actually explain their beliefs etc without continuous hectoring.
Thank you guys! SDP clearly the grown ups in the room at the moment. Long term thinking and planning so far has been cast adrift from mainstream political debate. I’d like to think the public are aware of the negative impact of years of this approach.
The answer to why we don’t see or hear more about the SDP on MSM etc is of course that they are pro Leave. BBC can’t possibly give them a platform on QT etc.
..Family, neighbourhood., community, town,country. What we've always had. It makes countries what they are. I must read John Grey. I'll soon be a member of the SDP
It's spelt GRAY. You should read him!
What he said about the 5 things voters cannot influence when members of the E.U was pretty damning.
Thanks for being the voice of reason on Good Morning Britain, Konstantin. 🙏🙏🙏
Great show, and glad you spoke to someone who would not otherwise get media coverage. Plenty to think about about and I took away from it
Another splendid interview, my friends. To steal one of your lines ... honest conversations with interesting people.
I may have said already but you fellows give me hope; you’re a calm centre in a storm of extremist “reee”, showing that serious matters can be discussed in detail with no raised voices or unproductive talking over each other exchanges.
Great interview and great interviewers, particularly the chap on the right.
Immigration in the words of Prof Richard Wolff is a subsidy for employers and I share Rod Liddle’s bewilderment at the Left’s total denial of its exploitative nature. Marion
I know. Corbyn, as a lifelong Eurosceptic (now turned) tried to address this problem with exploitation and was ridiculously shouted down as a racist by liberals in the Labour Party.
In the words of Peter Hitchens
These people are Fat Bourgeois Bohemians
Rationality! God, its like breathing fresh air for the first time!
24:50 FF… if only you knew then what was going to happen…
As for the rest of it, I really resonate with the message that Clouston is trying to spread and honestly I think that it’s not quite being heard enough yet because if the masses heard him then they’d vote for him no question. I’d love for you guys to bring him back onto the show and get an updated interview that should hopefully be seen by a lot more eyes.
Would love to know more about the party. Thank you for the interview!
Can we see Rod Liddle on the show guys? Keep up the good work!
Found my party in the SDP. Hopefully we can one day get into parliament.
"People are not daft"... At least one politician understands that, shame there aren't more.
Love the channel guys always great interviews 👍
Top interview. Great work, thanks!!
Another good show guys, i'm really liking the diversity of viewpoints in your various guests. It's also good to hear so many smaller party representatives talking about political reform now, Clouston is right that an alliance to push this issue is much needed and should be something of a priority once Brexit is out of the way.
There's a bit of water gone under the bridge since this interview! Any chance you can get @WilliamClouston on again to give his thoughts on not just pandemic Britain but also what they're going to do to grow the SDP "brand" and become a relevant alternative to Red, Blue and Yellow.
I talk a lot of shit and have the mind of a butterfly but this was a captivating interview from start to end.
I like that this guy sits cross legged like a normal person and doesn't do that weird thing with his thumbs that politicians do when they talk.
Never thought I’d ever like the sound of the SDP
If ever a country needed social conservatism and social democratic economics,ours is it !
We are being ripped apart in different directions by multiple forces much of it self inflicted,and I don’t see a happy outcome.
In my opinion we are seeing the outcome of unrestrained Liberal social and economic policies boil over.
We will work together to fix our country I’m not sure, but things will get worse before getting better.
Divided houses never stand !
Ps I don’t recall the founders of the SDP to be very socially conservative
Roy Jenkins for example scrapped preventative policing.
Shirley Williams lead the charge for our failed Comprehensive Education System scrapping the Attlee/Bevin thoughts on Grammar Tech and secondary modern which were socially conservative actions.
Join the SDP today.....It's only 5 quid, and will really help to bring back sensible politics to the UK
@historypoliticsbb Nope, it will get rid of the outdated and unfit for purpose, Labour party :)
@historypoliticsbb Labour and no longer on the left, they are far left and unrecognisable to the old Northern Labour voter. SDP are a credible alternative to the Tories as the Labour Party become more and more detached from actual Labourers and more attached to identity politics ...RIP the Labour Party :(
These are great interviews. I would really like to watch you have a conversation with David Starkey.
Clouston is by far the coolest party leader out there.
I AM GOING TO VOTE SDP for the first time...The Brexit plus party!
If I was British, and if the SDP was more conservative culturally, a.k.a. Peter-Hitchens-style-conservatism, then I would vote for them.
How do you think the SDP could be more culturally conservative?
@@gicky-gackers well William said we are pro immigration but not mass, that sounds a bit weak.
Also he doesn't mention abortion or Christianity
My new home
Another excellent guest! I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said... which as a UKIP supporter seems rather unlikely as I am frequently told I am on the far far ultra far turbo plus uber N*zi right somewhere in the vicinity of certain fascistic pug dogs.
I'm left of centre on economics, but right on social issues and I support UKIP.
It's a sad situation when we can't even use certain terms without triggering the progressive censor bots on RUclips that are programmed to think they are offensive. What happened to fr33 sp33ch?
@ It got turned into hate speech to shut down political debate on important issues and protect certain groups from criticism. If history is to be any guide, this strategy will not work and indeed will eventually result in the very opposite effect the censors wish to achieve. It's all going to "come out sideways" as Dangerfield puts it and I don't think he is far wrong. Those wrapped in cotton wool become weak while the resolve of the outcasts grows stronger.
9:13 Absolutely nailed the Brexit Party here.
I feel like I'm always saying this, but why does the UK want to stay in the EU so bad? Or should I say, why do 1/4 of the people want to stay in the EU? As an American, this confuses me. What does the EU give the UK that the UK can't get on it's own? As an independent nation, or a commonwealth, you could still make all of the trade deals you want, you could still aid the mainland in times of emergency, and best of all, you could set your own priorities as it pertains to immigration. You could attract the best and brightest to your shores, and not have to worry about the people that are just coming to mooch off of your treasures.
But then, i don't understand why my government wants the same thing, why it doesn't want to attract the best and brightest, and only seeks to bring in the morons that could never hold down a job.
Even though we haven't been in anyway attached to the UK since 1776, we have let bygones be bygones and have worked together to make the world a better place. I guess that's why I so bothered by all this. You want to go from being free, to being a vassal state of the German Empire. (because face it, we all know that Momma Merkel runs it all by proxy from Brussels. What she want's she gets.) I can understand the French giving in, since they've never won a war since Bonaparte, but the UK has always been strong, been almost blessed with righteousness, but now wants to be slaves.
What did I miss? Does the free travel between the 27 member states of the EU mean that much, does it bring that much money to England's shores? Or does it only bring misery?
There is no reason, for the most part it is just virtue signalling.
The general consensus of the post-war political class in the UK has been to adopt a 'managed decline' mindset (apart from Mrs Thatcher).
So the elite like the idea of joining one big bland supra-national state. They don't have to take on so much responsibility for governing us...
I had never seen any super enthusiastic pro-EU sentiment from the general public until after the referendum. All the 2nd referendum / pro-EU protests are driven by people who hate Brexit. They certainly didn't care that much about our EU membership beforehand.
*@Joseph White*
I've found it very difficult to get a good answer from anyone committed to the idea that Britain should stay in the EU as to what it is they actually love so much about it.
Much of what I hear tends to be based purely on emotion, and that includes from all the people I once respected who've effectively been rendered into gibbering morons prepared to die on the incredibly bizarre hill that is defending a gigantic bureaucratic superstate, a position that stands against everything their intelligence might suggest of them.
It really is Pod People-level stuff.
There is no real good reason to want to stay in the EU. There's a weak pragmatic argument that it'll be a whole lot of bother so we might as well stay in. Then there's the fact that the middle classes don't want their holidays to Europe to be more expensive, or more of a hassle (i.e. having to fill in an extra form). Then there's the political elite, who don't want the hassle of leaving, don't want more responsibilities, don't want to end freedom of movement (an endless supply of cheap labour), and were possibly hoping to have well paid careers in the EU parliament towards the end of their political careers.
There are many conspiracy theories about globalism surrounding the whole Brexit, EU struggle. I generally shy away from things like that, but given the current political goings on, fuck it seems half ass reasonable.
The Tories dropped the ball socially and with regards to Brexit, not because they’re worried about the electorate being upset or the Tory rank and file revolting, but because they are guided by the headlines in the mainstream media. Since Blair, political wisdom has been all about spin and ensuring the avoidance of bad press whilst spinning the best headlines possible.
Had they embraced the task of Brexit, stood fast by their promise to reduce mass immigration, supported the family and championed a patriotic vision, they would’ve won by a landslide and had a very happy membership.
But the media would’ve crucified them and that is what mainstream parties worry almost solely about.
What Newsnight, the Today program, Channel 4 News, the Guardian and Independent will say about them. God forbid they get called racist!
They will do anything not to be called racist by the mainstream media.
They will even commit political suicide for the tiny minority of lefty elites who run the media and consider breathing whilst white to be a little too much like Mosley
Joining the SDP
48:00 "if you phrase it like that, most people would support it" is the main problem with democracy
The point about capital punishment was a good one. I think Clouston could have argued that macro-expertise does exist on this point. We have the data about the number of people exonerated for crimes they did not commit. Had they been killed, they couldn’t have been exonerated. The large number of false positives is not a matter for public debate or value judgments. A value judgment is still needed to decide whether or not we want capital punishment, but at least we have good predictive accuracy on the number of false positives, thereby legitimising the drawing of a moral red line. In the case of Brexit, we don’t have accurate data regarding consequences, so its harder for people to draw a moral red line.
Another superb interview.
Not happy at all with the answer on the death penalty though. If there is a vote then the majority decision must be implemented. You can't sit there and say with regards to Brexit/death penalty 'they're different types of decision so I would honour one and not the other'.
The whole point is that everyone has different lines in the sand that they would draw. Voting against the death penalty as an MP after a majority vote in favour is tyrannical rule by an elite few, exactly why many Brexiteers are calling parliament fascist/undemocratic.
It doesn't matter what your own personal moral standpoint is, democracy must be upheld. Otherwise we are simply living under the learned moral code of a few of hundred MP's, which as we know is rarely the same as the wider public. Not what I would call democracy.
Incidentally I am strongly in favour of Brexit and pretty indifferent about the death penalty - we virtually have it already in life sentences. There's not much difference to me in dying there and then and sitting in a cell for the rest of your life.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought what he was saying was that he wouldn't want a public vote on the death penalty, rather than he wouldn't implement a vote if there was one?
I don't really have a problem with murderers being put to death, but I'm 100% against the death penalty because there are always cases where a convicted "murderer" is later proven innocent and released. Being wrongfully imprisoned must be bloody awful, but you can't undo a hanging.
@@kayoss2306 he said both - he wouldn't support a public vote on it, and wouldn't vote to implement it after a majority public vote in favour.
I'd be curious to see what the outcome would be but that's about it.
Agreed on the false convictions, although I'm sure that's a very small number of cases. For it to make a major difference, the conviction has to be overturned pretty quickly anyway - sitting in jail for 30 years for something you didn't do would have a huge effect on the mind, even if you were released after. But I suppose that is marginally better than finding someone innocent that has already been put to death.
Frazer Duncan
Those small number of cases aren’t so insignificant if you are one of those ‘unlucky’ ones though are they?
This is completely unrelated to this video. Konstantin, you were awesome on Good Morning Britain. Just saying.
Have ye asked Owen Jones yet? 3 comedians on one show would be great!!!!
I'm glad he got concrete on the school run program. I was going to complain that he was being too vague, even in the deceleration, about what "the community not the individual" means.
Sadly i see why politicians don't get concrete as this example has made me clearly not want to vote for him. I'm very opposed to forcing everyone to do something as people's different skills/needs aren't accounted for by that, while individual choice does account for such things. That's a very liberal view, I know.
"the modern Tory is basically some sort of free market liberal"
This is genuinely interesting stuff. As a right winger I'm starting to be willing to toss out a lot of the "muh low corporate tax rates" stuff that the Tories forced voters to take as a package deal in order to get social conservative policies.
It's funny, I'm a more traditional left-winger (as opposed to the current looney left) and I've been willing to vote for parties with more right-wing economic policies, because the socially conservative bit feels much more important to me. I think this is exactly why parties like UKIP and the Brexit Party (as well as the Brexit question in general) are uniting people on the left and right.
@@kayoss2306 yeah I agree if the UK spent another 2billion pounds a year on the NHS and increased tax a bit. While it lowered immigration and had pro family policies I would take that over drag queen story time and less tax
It would be great if you guys could get someone who is pro-Land Value taxation (accompanied by the elimination of most if not all other taxes), Fred Harrison or Dr. Roger Sandilands from landresearchtrust.org could be very informative. It would put another perspective on the perceived need for more council houses.
Should we do what the people want?
Isn’t that why politicians are elected? Where does it end then?
I really like this show. You are bringing up important issues. Sometimes though, you make me wonder. Francis you're walking the line between comdian, journalist, and host. You'll have to decide eventually. Why wait 50 minutes to talk about Brexit? Why not just bring it up? You can do that you know. Just man up Francis. And get a hair cut. Or grow it out. But eventually you'll have to decide.
58:51 I disagree that the "parity maniacs" care that much about the distribution of people from different classes. It's the one thing that the overwhelmingly bourgeois middle-class types that tend to push such ideas are suspiciously quiet about.
True that. You never hear the social justice types mention social mobility. It's all about race and gender.
Good to see someone pushing for soc con / econ left position but it's definitely not what I'd vote for. I say, with all the censorship and identity politics we have, that there isn't enough "me me me."
Interesting guy. He advocates for a bit too much govt intervention, at least in housing, for my taste, but that could be due to my not being a Brit. Still, imminently reasonable and extremely erudite. I'd definitely hear him out. Guys, yet another great show!
I've always believed that some things do need more govt intervention or protection and everything else should be left to the market. The idea that our energy and water supplies should be owned and controlled by foreign entities is absurd. Look at how much control Putin has. He just turns down the gas and we have to do what he wants. Our water systems need massive structural investment but this doesn't happen because short term profits are more important to shareholders. So then we get issues with water quality and sewage run off. Some things are too important to be left to the whims of the globalists and the money markets
At 4:30, creaky floorboards or is that Francis letting rip ?
Why do people believe they don't have a say in EU legislation ? UK has 73 deputies in the EU Parliement and voted all treaties. You guys voted. Chinese ppl didn't.
This sounds like new labour we are left but we also like Bussiness
This guy is far too normal to be a politician.
When Konstantin said I don’t hear a big thing that hits me (paraphrasing of course)
Doesn’t that in of its self show up a big problem.
We the voter have become addicted to the sound bite the false advertising/narrative.
This guy is fascinating to listen to. I'd argue he's the perfect case study for a politician trying to play by the old rules who doesn't properly understand the shifts that have happened in the last ten years. He mentions identity politics but calls everything he doesn't like liberalism. He needs to watch Sargon's video illiberal liberals and learn about the differences between group and individual rights and how identity politics has erased the sense of community and family and attacked British identity which is what he wants.
It's infuriating to be in violent agreement with the SDP on social issues, and even some economic policy like more social housing and railway nationalisation, but they're just too left-wing on economics for me to fully back. Also, disagree on constitutional issues like voting reform and referenda. Might vote for them, but - WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS A CONSERVATIVE PARTY FOR FUCK SAKE.
Social Democratic Party? What? Last time I heard the phrase 'Social Democratic Party', the phrase 'I'm surging, David, I'm surging!' was involved. What's going on right now?
They peaked too early I recall.
Another surge
Thank god COVID was the great unifier
... guys? ...
Is there really such an ocean of difference between the SDP New Declaration and the For Britain manifesto? Read them together. Just a question of emphasis it seems. A political consensus is closer than we think if we can just get rid of our outdated parliamentary tribalism.
Everything he said is literally the same as ukip
No focus on free speech though.
UKIP are right wing on economics.
@@triggerpod - they were under Farage but haven't they moved to the left since then?
UKIP want to nationalise the railways, free university tuition for STEMM subjects, scrap the ATOS assessments for disability benefits. They have some very left wing economic policies. They also have some more right wing ones (reducing certain taxes). I think UKIP are pretty centrist really, they take ideas from both sides.
Oh really? I never found much out about UKIP watching watching coverage of them from the BBC. I got the impression that their policies were just r@pe jokes, n@zi pugs and Rommy Tobinson.
AJ Ayer did nothing wrong!
A bit of a dirty sod with the women, apparently.
He refuted his early stuff
@@GOFFMEISTER - that's the only wrong thing he did ;U
scrapping the bottom......
Stop saying liberalism when u mean socialism, which is HIGHLY illiberal
"Liberal overreach" is an absolute contradiction in terms
"I like individualism but I don't like the decisions people make and I think I know better than other people so we need to have social constructionism"... What a crock.
Did you watch the video? He said that he feels individualism has gone too far in recent years both socially and economically and that a redress is needed to focus on community, more us and less me. It is not an either/or, it is more nuanced than you want to make it. He represents a political party in a democracy, of course he is going to say he thinks he knows what to do since that how it works. If you think he does know, you vote for him.
@@GGTutor1 I did and I disagree. When did these people become our "leaders" and attain the right to adjust all of our lives rather than being our representatives? Probably around the same time that people figured out they can vote for people who will give them personal advantages. It seems like the people who are winning are the ones that are saying "the people know best and should be allowed to decide", you know like how the Brexit party just did? I don't need civic lessons and criticisms about simplifying someone's stance from someone who simplifies our governmental systems into "democracy". They are more complicated than that...
@@darthstigater6642 "When did these people become our "leaders" and attain the right to adjust all of our lives rather than being our representatives? Probably around the same time that people figured out they can vote for people who will give them personal advantages."
-----We live in a representative democracy, that's how it works. They represent AND lead.
"It seems like the people who are winning are the ones that are saying "the people know best and should be allowed to decide", you know like how the Brexit party just did?"
-----Yes, populist parties are rising because a large number of people feel their views are not being represented in our current system with two parties dominating that are refusing to follow an act of direct democracy in the referendum. They want better representatives.
I, for example, am economically centre left and socially centre right. I am also a leaver. I feel i have no representation in the current parties available, until I just became aware of the SDP. I am not sure what you disagree with in the video, are you advocating direct democracy? Do you not want 'leaders'? I am genuinely interested in your take on the video, but am unsure what your issue with it is.
@@GGTutor1 no, I want people to stop thinking that the government is going to fix their problems for them due to the "leader" that they elect. I don't have any problems with the video. I just don't like what the guy said and expressed it by writing a snarky comment about it.
@@darthstigater6642 OK thanks for replying. I completely agree with you that we should vote on policy and principle and not on the personality or charisma of the leader.
He's so bland!