Do you feel like you left the church or the church was stolen? These lefties get to keep calling themselves United but they are really wanting to split the baby and demand both halves.
If liberal church members change the word of God, they should change to a new church name and leave the Traditional United Methodists with the church they built over many years. The liberals are free to start a new church; why should the traditionalists leave?
If liberal church members change the word of God, they should change to a new church name and leave the Traditional United Methodists with the church they built over many years. The liberals are free to start a new church; why should the traditionalists leave?
Desperate people do desperate things. Other denominations have taken this same approach and are now on life support. My guess is the only priority of UMC leadership is to ensure their pensions are paid until they die.
@@melodiousmind6418 sometimes things are meant and need to change. The GMC change is quite prudent and it rectifies numerous issues and gets the body as a whole back in alignment. Let the dead bury the dead.
In South Carolina 113 closed and reopened last year, plus the 112 this year. 225 total. Word at annual conference is that there will be at least one, but perhaps 2 more years will be allowed for churches to close and buy back assets. Many in S.C. took the bishop at his word at waited to see what happened in Charlotte. Some think as many as 200 more churches may leave which would represent half of the UMCSC pre-split.
Just pack up and leave. It is just a building and if sold after the members leave, the money will hopefully go to a good charity. Remember, it is just a building, yet it is people that make up the church.
Dated a woman who was Methodist back in 90's. She was proud of the Church allowing Gays and other changes. She was also seeking a Poly relationship as well.
The church I have been visiting in West Central Georgia just voted to leave Monday 07-15-24 to leave.. Not sure what happens from here or how long it will actually take but there it is.
We had 11 people join my Baptist church last month who came from the UMC. I didnt realize it until the baptism service (Baptists require immersion, and some were baptized as infants, so the new members were required to do it for membership) However, I am curious as to why they didnt join the huge Wesleyan church just 10 minutes away. Is there a major difference between the Wesleyan Church and Global Methodist Church? The Wesleyans I know are wonderful Christians, bible believing, focus on Wesley's sanctification doctrine, no woke agenda, yet allow women in ministry and other things that United Methodists are used to. Just wondering why there hasnt been a major defection of Methodists into the Wesleyan Church. God speed to the total destruction of the looney UMC
@@plainspokenpod hmm, not questioning your knowledge, but are you certain about that? I asked a Wesleyan pastor about that years ago and I think he said that churches own their own property ONCE they become self sufficient. I could be mistaken, probably am. So I assume the Congregational Methodist Church is out because they have no bishops etc?
There are probably many reasons why they would join your Baptist denomination rather than the Wesleyan Church. I doubt that you will find any two that have the same reasons.
@@Colonel.G Very true. But it is a bit of a jump to go from a church that is Arminian in soteriology to one that is not, but throughout early American history, Baptists and Methodists had a pretty good relationship, even preaching in each others churches. There were even some Methodists in the 1800's that only practiced immersion for baptism, and the Methodists used the baptistry in our church quite often. However, the "trend" in Methodism over the last 50 years has tended to be towards more liturgical style worship, with some undistinguishable from Episcopalians. Perhaps that was just a ploy to give the illusion of unity, as was the case in Episcopalianism. It seems to me that the Wesleyans have retained that "fire" of John Wesley, so hopefully more cordial relations will develop between them and those Methodists that have pulled out of the UMC. My prayers are with them for sure.
Having walked away from the ELCA over these same issues and having close fellowship with some brothers in leadership at a local EPC church who had to disaffiliate from the PCUSA, what’s ahead for the UMC is pretty predictable, they will continue to decline until they’ve finally buried their last members. I do pray that those orthodox/traditionalists who’ve been left behind are able to eventually get out with their property. It’s really sad to see how Satan can come in and sever the fellowship within a local church.
I would say that many believers would list having their own dedicated church building as an essential, so that losing it would effectively mean the end of that congregation. But, I agree with you that they could just walk away.
@@robertkersten3971 our thoughts may not be too far apart, but if one is concerned about buildings, look how many Methodist churches there are within your geographic region. There were so many in our area, that they had to shutter some with low membership. I think the focus should be is the church doing God's work? What I have personally experienced is those caught up in town hall issues are not doing His work, but hyper-focusing on divisive issues. I can tell you what my GMC church is doing must be working, because we have new members every single month. Why? Because we are active in the community doing good things and people want to be part of that. They do not want to be part of a declining congregation pandering for members on a couple topics.
I just pray that all these folks leaving are sticking with their current church moving to GMC/independent OR finding a new church home. There is no doubt folks will leave the faith due to the liberal conforming to the secular culture. There is no difference any longer between the UMC and the corner bar… “Sometimes you wanna go Where everybody knows your name And they're always glad you came You wanna be where you can see (ah-ah) Our troubles are all the same (ah-ah) You wanna be where everybody knows your name - (Cheers there song)
The banner at the 4-minute mark is a bit off-target. The issue is not that a particular culture's values are being rejected (the church ought to be challenging all cultures), but rather that God's values (as a reasonable person who takes the Bible seriously understands them) are being rejected. It might seem like a small distinction but it is super important.
Yeah this has been a consistent line of rhetoric from African folks. They focus on their current norms as if that is at all relevant in determining how we ought to be. To be fair, though, that is also how Americans generally approach issues. Humans are self-justifying, by nature, aren’t we?
The is a serious problem in the Liberia Annual conference on the decisions of General conference so few days to come LAC will come up with their decisions
It will be interesting to see how many people leave the congregations that decide to stay in the UMC. What we are seeing in PA is that the stronger churches left and seem to be doing generally well in the GMC. Our church is growing with new members each month.
SGA Conf. committed to this policy. If they follow through by actually keeping their promise, it will bode well for both those who remain as well as those who separate from the UMC.
Part of the answer to the membership numbers discrepancy is found on the "about us" page of Nigeria UMC. It says that from 1984-2018, they averaged more than 15% growth annually!! And that during the 2020-2030 period, they anticipate 18% growth per annum (no doubt anticipated before the 2024 conference). If that fantastic rate of growth is anywhere close to accurate, the numbers ramp up really quick.
Compare that to growth in the USA or Europe. You can't because we had the opposite of growth long before disaffilition. In fact we saw significant losses in the 70s, well before LGBTQ even became a serious issue.
Google..... Wesley Memorial United Methodist Church votes to leave UMC. ....... Its one of if not the largest in NC. It is over 200 years old and was there before the city of High Point developed around it. When it left a lot of others did too.
Since following your channel, it has helped me reaffirm my unease about being a UMC member. I’ve watched your GC2023 livestream videos, and have come to the conclusion that I must leave the UMC. However, the next step is finding a new church home over the coming weeks/months and I’ve listened to others and read about UMC history and also current events regarding women pastors such as in the SBC. This seems to be part of the slippery slope of progressive liberalism in Christian denominations, and I wonder what your thoughts are on this topic. I’ve wanted to consider the GMC, but now am thinking that maybe I should avoid churches that have crossed that line and consider another more conservative denomination such as SBC, EFCA, or an independent congregation. I loved the UMC until recognizing all of the dysfunction within it, now feel that the GMC may not be a far enough departure for me from the UMC…. Have any of your previous videos spoken to the issue of women pastors??
Just putting my two bits in: I think the reason behind why a given church allows women pastors is a more accurate predictor than the mere fact that it allows women pastors. Is a given church allowing women pastors because they want to please the culture and/or don't take the Bible seriously? That is a recipe for trouble. Some other churches out there take the Bible seriously *and* have allowed women pastors since their inception for reasons other than pressure from cultural or political agendas.
@@norahajian8517I’m interested in what other reasons are justifiable to have women pastors, if the general understanding by many more orthodox Christians is that biblical truth speaks against women teaching men from the pulpit? It seems to me that cultural and politically progressive forces have influenced this trend by more churches over the past 50 years or so.
From what I understand, sheer need was quite the compelling historic factor, and most often the originating factor. And the Holy Spirit's apparent calling and working through various women in various church leadership positions also affected how they thought about the issue. Perhaps they saw it as being in line with the way Gentiles were welcomed into the church, even though previously good Jews were not supposed to even associate with Gentiles. In their wholistic study of Scripture - looking at all of Scripture, not just one verse of Scripture - they also likely came across other verses (e.g., Galatians 3:28) that influenced their outlook. Regarding Paul's well-known words about women in the church, they likely see that as a preference and a practical matter of keeping order in the church, not as a matter of God's immutable will. I'm not saying that is the only honest reading of how the Bible informs the matter of women being ministers in the church. But it is *a* honest reading (among several), that does not ill-treat the Bible or treat it less seriously and respectfully than it deserves as the inspired Word of God. I have also heard arguments that assume what Paul said about women in the church was meant to be universal and unchanging - that is also an honest reading, although one can easily make those arguments without necessarily considering what Scripture says in its totality, in a wholistic manner. Ultimately, I believe we are treating the Bible better when we treat it is a whole, and are willing to engage in a bit of exegesis.
If you know of someone connected to that church who might want to report to me about the particular developments in that context, they can email me at plainspokenpod@gmail.com
There may still be a way out P2549. Make sure your delegate goes to Annual Conference, Jeff Wilson is to present a request to be made to the Juridical Council (so I here).
This is like Lot's wife . . . do not look back. There has been enough division and time spent breaking away. Look forward and do God's work. If people from the UMC want to connect, which no doubt will happen, let them transfer and join the GMC. The UMC is a car driving down the road on its rims.
I know a lot of people say it is like Lot's wife. I disagree pretty wholeheartedly. I don't think the moral of that story is that we should never think about where we came from. That flies in the face of explicit instructions given to the Hebrews. Moreover, those who refuse to learn and consider their history are doomed to repeat it. I think those who refuse to look back will reproduce the sin of the UMC within the GMC. I'm going to continue direct people to look at the UMC because we need to guard against reproducing this story. We are also supposed to care for those left behind. You're entitled to live how you want, but I'm very concerned about the consciences of people who dispassionately move forward without concern for where they came from or who is left behind.
@@plainspokenpod that is really weak advice and you twist scripture to make your point. The split happened for a reason and it is OVER. Let me help you with a more contemporary line from Jesus "let the dead bury the dead." I'll give you a hint it is in Luke.
@@kevinmacomber1336 The reason for the split isn't over, man. These people continue to blaspheme and ruin the Christian faith. Brothers and sisters in Christ are still trapped in local churches that aren't allowed to disaffiliate. These folks aren't dead. They are alive and suffering, either in sin or in bondage. It is clear you have washed your hands of them. As I said, that is your prerogative. It is mine to keep on this path. Move along if you don't care.
@@plainspokenpod I am aware of the churches that can't change for a number of reasons. I have washed my hands because there is a path forward and I don't want to deal with the town hall issue anymore. I watched it destroy a Church in our town that was 100 years old, to the point they were forced to close their doors. For those that stay behind, they have two choices: 1) stand up and fight this nonsense, or 2) go to another church. Personally, I tired long ago fighting this mess and the more time wasted on the old is time not spending God's work now. These deviants have wasted enough resources and time and let God sort them out later.
If liberal church members change the word of God, they should change to a new church name and leave the Traditional United Methodists with the church they built over many years. The liberals are free to start a new church; why should the traditionalists leave?
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
That is relevant here only if both sides acknowledge one another as true brethren in Christ. Even if they do, I don't think my counsel here goes against this passage. I haven't told them to file suit against other believers. Rather, I have said it would be good to walk away and put the denomination in the position to file suit.
Will the last person out please turn the lights off?
I never thought that I would leave my great grandparents', grandparents', parents' church...But here I am...
I left for the Vineyard Church several years ago, leading of God, the Holy Spirit.
It’s not your grandparents or great grandparents church you have left. It’s a different church!
I know, me too. It’s been hard.
Do you feel like you left the church or the church was stolen? These lefties get to keep calling themselves United but they are really wanting to split the baby and demand both halves.
If liberal church members change the word of God, they should change to a new church name and leave the Traditional United Methodists with the church they built over many years. The liberals are free to start a new church; why should the traditionalists leave?
Every denomination that has followed this path has shrunk.
I thought the Global Methodist Church left in mass, the Africans
Many have outright collapsed.
Southern NH…we voted to part ways last Sunday!
This is why the gay lobby made sure the African delegates didn’t attend the convention
Africa just left. 1.2 million members
@@kevinmacomber1336good for them
After watching the General Conference I decided to leave. It was embarrassing
If liberal church members change the word of God, they should change to a new church name and leave the Traditional United Methodists with the church they built over many years. The liberals are free to start a new church; why should the traditionalists leave?
@@melodiousmind6418 They have moved beyond liberalism to stupidity.
Desperate people do desperate things. Other denominations have taken this same approach and are now on life support. My guess is the only priority of UMC leadership is to ensure their pensions are paid until they die.
@@melodiousmind6418 sometimes things are meant and need to change. The GMC change is quite prudent and it rectifies numerous issues and gets the body as a whole back in alignment. Let the dead bury the dead.
Hope you feel better soon, Jeffrey!
In South Carolina 113 closed and reopened last year, plus the 112 this year. 225 total. Word at annual conference is that there will be at least one, but perhaps 2 more years will be allowed for churches to close and buy back assets. Many in S.C. took the bishop at his word at waited to see what happened in Charlotte. Some think as many as 200 more churches may leave which would represent half of the UMCSC pre-split.
Just pack up and leave. It is just a building and if sold after the members leave, the money will hopefully go to a good charity. Remember, it is just a building, yet it is people that make up the church.
Thanks for your coverage brother! God bless!
We need repentance and revival in the churches so much
Remove trust clause and see how many leave.
Dated a woman who was Methodist back in 90's. She was proud of the Church allowing Gays and other changes. She was also seeking a Poly relationship as well.
The church I have been visiting in West Central Georgia just voted to leave Monday 07-15-24 to leave.. Not sure what happens from here or how long it will actually take but there it is.
Hope you get better soon….thanks for your ministry.
We had 11 people join my Baptist church last month who came from the UMC. I didnt realize it until the baptism service (Baptists require immersion, and some were baptized as infants, so the new members were required to do it for membership) However, I am curious as to why they didnt join the huge Wesleyan church just 10 minutes away. Is there a major difference between the Wesleyan Church and Global Methodist Church? The Wesleyans I know are wonderful Christians, bible believing, focus on Wesley's sanctification doctrine, no woke agenda, yet allow women in ministry and other things that United Methodists are used to. Just wondering why there hasnt been a major defection of Methodists into the Wesleyan Church. God speed to the total destruction of the looney UMC
Wesleyans have a trust clause. That's a conversation ender for the vast majority of people coming out of the UMC.
@@plainspokenpod hmm, not questioning your knowledge, but are you certain about that? I asked a Wesleyan pastor about that years ago and I think he said that churches own their own property ONCE they become self sufficient. I could be mistaken, probably am. So I assume the Congregational Methodist Church is out because they have no bishops etc?
There are probably many reasons why they would join your Baptist denomination rather than the Wesleyan Church. I doubt that you will find any two that have the same reasons.
@@Colonel.G Very true. But it is a bit of a jump to go from a church that is Arminian in soteriology to one that is not, but throughout early American history, Baptists and Methodists had a pretty good relationship, even preaching in each others churches. There were even some Methodists in the 1800's that only practiced immersion for baptism, and the Methodists used the baptistry in our church quite often. However, the "trend" in Methodism over the last 50 years has tended to be towards more liturgical style worship, with some undistinguishable from Episcopalians. Perhaps that was just a ploy to give the illusion of unity, as was the case in Episcopalianism. It seems to me that the Wesleyans have retained that "fire" of John Wesley, so hopefully more cordial relations will develop between them and those Methodists that have pulled out of the UMC. My prayers are with them for sure.
Having walked away from the ELCA over these same issues and having close fellowship with some brothers in leadership at a local EPC church who had to disaffiliate from the PCUSA, what’s ahead for the UMC is pretty predictable, they will continue to decline until they’ve finally buried their last members. I do pray that those orthodox/traditionalists who’ve been left behind are able to eventually get out with their property. It’s really sad to see how Satan can come in and sever the fellowship within a local church.
I argue to leave the property and just join a GMC church. All property can be replaced.
I would say that many believers would list having their own dedicated church building as an essential, so that losing it would effectively mean the end of that congregation. But, I agree with you that they could just walk away.
@@robertkersten3971 our thoughts may not be too far apart, but if one is concerned about buildings, look how many Methodist churches there are within your geographic region. There were so many in our area, that they had to shutter some with low membership. I think the focus should be is the church doing God's work? What I have personally experienced is those caught up in town hall issues are not doing His work, but hyper-focusing on divisive issues. I can tell you what my GMC church is doing must be working, because we have new members every single month. Why? Because we are active in the community doing good things and people want to be part of that. They do not want to be part of a declining congregation pandering for members on a couple topics.
I just pray that all these folks leaving are sticking with their current church moving to GMC/independent OR finding a new church home.
There is no doubt folks will leave the faith due to the liberal conforming to the secular culture. There is no difference any longer between the UMC and the corner bar…
“Sometimes you wanna go
Where everybody knows your name
And they're always glad you came
You wanna be where you can see (ah-ah)
Our troubles are all the same (ah-ah)
You wanna be where everybody knows your name - (Cheers there song)
The banner at the 4-minute mark is a bit off-target. The issue is not that a particular culture's values are being rejected (the church ought to be challenging all cultures), but rather that God's values (as a reasonable person who takes the Bible seriously understands them) are being rejected. It might seem like a small distinction but it is super important.
Yeah this has been a consistent line of rhetoric from African folks. They focus on their current norms as if that is at all relevant in determining how we ought to be. To be fair, though, that is also how Americans generally approach issues. Humans are self-justifying, by nature, aren’t we?
The is a serious problem in the Liberia Annual conference on the decisions of General conference so few days to come LAC will come up with their decisions
It will be interesting to see how many people leave the congregations that decide to stay in the UMC. What we are seeing in PA is that the stronger churches left and seem to be doing generally well in the GMC. Our church is growing with new members each month.
As you should know by now, becoming an autonomous Methodist Church is a normal process defined by the Discipline. It's not a problem.
When people finally understand what took place at GC, they will leave with or without their church building
I expect the tithing offerings are also way down commensurate to the reduction in attendance. Another iteration of “go woke, go broke”.
If you read the SC requirements doe disaffiliation, they're required to pay a 10% "tithe" of the value of the property AND contents.
South Georgia conference is allowing “departures”.
SGA Conf. committed to this policy. If they follow through by actually keeping their promise, it will bode well for both those who remain as well as those who separate from the UMC.
Part of the answer to the membership numbers discrepancy is found on the "about us" page of Nigeria UMC. It says that from 1984-2018, they averaged more than 15% growth annually!! And that during the 2020-2030 period, they anticipate 18% growth per annum (no doubt anticipated before the 2024 conference). If that fantastic rate of growth is anywhere close to accurate, the numbers ramp up really quick.
Compare that to growth in the USA or Europe.
You can't because we had the opposite of growth long before disaffilition. In fact we saw significant losses in the 70s, well before LGBTQ even became a serious issue.
If its still called a church, please call it by its new correct name!
"The church of the son of the morning to his most dark glory!"
IGRC and Michigan should have a bunch leave too
The UMC bishops abused their power.
Google..... Wesley Memorial United Methodist Church votes to leave UMC. ....... Its one of if not the largest in NC. It is over 200 years old and was there before the city of High Point developed around it. When it left a lot of others did too.
Since following your channel, it has helped me reaffirm my unease about being a UMC member. I’ve watched your GC2023 livestream videos, and have come to the conclusion that I must leave the UMC. However, the next step is finding a new church home over the coming weeks/months and I’ve listened to others and read about UMC history and also current events regarding women pastors such as in the SBC. This seems to be part of the slippery slope of progressive liberalism in Christian denominations, and I wonder what your thoughts are on this topic. I’ve wanted to consider the GMC, but now am thinking that maybe I should avoid churches that have crossed that line and consider another more conservative denomination such as SBC, EFCA, or an independent congregation. I loved the UMC until recognizing all of the dysfunction within it, now feel that the GMC may not be a far enough departure for me from the UMC…. Have any of your previous videos spoken to the issue of women pastors??
Just putting my two bits in: I think the reason behind why a given church allows women pastors is a more accurate predictor than the mere fact that it allows women pastors. Is a given church allowing women pastors because they want to please the culture and/or don't take the Bible seriously? That is a recipe for trouble. Some other churches out there take the Bible seriously *and* have allowed women pastors since their inception for reasons other than pressure from cultural or political agendas.
@@norahajian8517I’m interested in what other reasons are justifiable to have women pastors, if the general understanding by many more orthodox Christians is that biblical truth speaks against women teaching men from the pulpit? It seems to me that cultural and politically progressive forces have influenced this trend by more churches over the past 50 years or so.
From what I understand, sheer need was quite the compelling historic factor, and most often the originating factor. And the Holy Spirit's apparent calling and working through various women in various church leadership positions also affected how they thought about the issue. Perhaps they saw it as being in line with the way Gentiles were welcomed into the church, even though previously good Jews were not supposed to even associate with Gentiles. In their wholistic study of Scripture - looking at all of Scripture, not just one verse of Scripture - they also likely came across other verses (e.g., Galatians 3:28) that influenced their outlook. Regarding Paul's well-known words about women in the church, they likely see that as a preference and a practical matter of keeping order in the church, not as a matter of God's immutable will.
I'm not saying that is the only honest reading of how the Bible informs the matter of women being ministers in the church. But it is *a* honest reading (among several), that does not ill-treat the Bible or treat it less seriously and respectfully than it deserves as the inspired Word of God. I have also heard arguments that assume what Paul said about women in the church was meant to be universal and unchanging - that is also an honest reading, although one can easily make those arguments without necessarily considering what Scripture says in its totality, in a wholistic manner. Ultimately, I believe we are treating the Bible better when we treat it is a whole, and are willing to engage in a bit of exegesis.
This is so sad.
Hope you feel better soon!!
Greenville Al first is trying to leave. But Bishop Graves will not let them.
If you know of someone connected to that church who might want to report to me about the particular developments in that context, they can email me at plainspokenpod@gmail.com
There may still be a way out P2549. Make sure your delegate goes to Annual Conference, Jeff Wilson is to present a request to be made to the Juridical Council (so I here).
Do you hold credentials in both the UMC and GMC ?
Nope. That isn’t possible.
I visited my DIL's UMC last weekend. They are doubling down.
I’m shocked more churches haven’t left. It seems to me if they are true Christian’s it should be more than half that are leaving!
You would be surprised at how many churches were prevented from voting on it or were even informed of what was happening.....
This is like Lot's wife . . . do not look back. There has been enough division and time spent breaking away. Look forward and do God's work. If people from the UMC want to connect, which no doubt will happen, let them transfer and join the GMC. The UMC is a car driving down the road on its rims.
I know a lot of people say it is like Lot's wife. I disagree pretty wholeheartedly. I don't think the moral of that story is that we should never think about where we came from. That flies in the face of explicit instructions given to the Hebrews. Moreover, those who refuse to learn and consider their history are doomed to repeat it. I think those who refuse to look back will reproduce the sin of the UMC within the GMC. I'm going to continue direct people to look at the UMC because we need to guard against reproducing this story. We are also supposed to care for those left behind. You're entitled to live how you want, but I'm very concerned about the consciences of people who dispassionately move forward without concern for where they came from or who is left behind.
@@plainspokenpod that is really weak advice and you twist scripture to make your point. The split happened for a reason and it is OVER. Let me help you with a more contemporary line from Jesus "let the dead bury the dead." I'll give you a hint it is in Luke.
@@kevinmacomber1336 The reason for the split isn't over, man. These people continue to blaspheme and ruin the Christian faith. Brothers and sisters in Christ are still trapped in local churches that aren't allowed to disaffiliate. These folks aren't dead. They are alive and suffering, either in sin or in bondage. It is clear you have washed your hands of them. As I said, that is your prerogative. It is mine to keep on this path. Move along if you don't care.
@@plainspokenpod I am aware of the churches that can't change for a number of reasons. I have washed my hands because there is a path forward and I don't want to deal with the town hall issue anymore. I watched it destroy a Church in our town that was 100 years old, to the point they were forced to close their doors. For those that stay behind, they have two choices: 1) stand up and fight this nonsense, or 2) go to another church. Personally, I tired long ago fighting this mess and the more time wasted on the old is time not spending God's work now. These deviants have wasted enough resources and time and let God sort them out later.
Get Woke, go …. You know the rest.
If liberal church members change the word of God, they should change to a new church name and leave the Traditional United Methodists with the church they built over many years. The liberals are free to start a new church; why should the traditionalists leave?
Sounds great.
They chose their path, let them fail.
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
That is relevant here only if both sides acknowledge one another as true brethren in Christ. Even if they do, I don't think my counsel here goes against this passage. I haven't told them to file suit against other believers. Rather, I have said it would be good to walk away and put the denomination in the position to file suit.
@@plainspokenpod Correct. I am in agreement. I sub to your pod cast because I am in agreement. I think your proposed course of action is a good one.
@@D2023bm Oh, cool. Thanks for clarifying!
Numbers 5: 10-15
First