Scriabin plays Scriabin ~ Sonata Fantasie Op.19 ~ Hupfeld Phonola recording 1908
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Here is the 'lost' recording of Scriabin playing his Sonata Fantasie Op.19.
Originally recorded for the Hupfeld company on piano rolls, these are now 're-performed' by me on a Hupfeld Bluthner, this being the same make of piano on which Scriabin made his recording in the Hupfeld studio at Leipzig in 1908.
Probably at the same time, he recorded his 2nd and 3rd Sonatas and a number of Etudes and Preludes.
Scriabin's performance of this Sonata accords with contemporary descriptions of the intense and nervous manner of his performance, and the kind of sound he produced. Certainly the manner of his rubati is original and distinctive, quite unlike anything I have heard in performances of this work post Scriabin. Unfortunately, it seems that Scriabin's interpretative style died with him but however his piano rolls are a means of gaining some idea of this.
Scriabin's 'heirs' such as Sofrontisky and Horowitz whose recordings are said to be definitive, could not have been directly influenced by him as they never actually heard him play. It is highly unlikely they heard any of Scriabin's Hupfeld recordings, although they must have known of and probably heard the small number of Welte recordings which did not include any large scale works
The writer Alexander Pasternak heard him play and noted that:-
"His playing was unique.....It could not be imitated by producing similar tone or power of softness, for he had a special relationship with the instrument, which was his own unrepeatable secret. As soon as I heard the first sounds on the piano, I immediately had the impression that his fingers were producing the sound without touching the keys. His enemies used to say that it was not real piano playing, but a twittering of birds or a mewing of kittens.....His spiritual lightness was reflected in his playing...."
In the second Presto movement Scriabin improvises, being somewhat different from the published score. Here the momentum is maintained without interruption and driven along relentlessly by the pounding bass octaves which though at first highly regular, drive faster as he approaches the final climax.
Scriabin's recording (the rolls that is, not necessarily this video) can only be regarded as the definitive interpretation.
Somehow I think Scriabin would have approved of the 'Visualizations' seen here, conjured up by the Microsoft media player.
This is the first version I have posted, and I am not entirely satisfied with my reading of the dynamics in places.
This is a very valuable historical document. Thank you for posting it!
Thank you so much for sharing this! He’s the most wonderful composer for the piano ever! Please post more of these piano roll recordings... something for pianists (including myself) to work towards although I agree no one ever quite play the way he did... simply too amazing! I wrote a poem for him recently...
Chopin is greater, is he not?
@@Itemtotem Yeah but Scriabin still pretty good and unique.
@@TheLifeisgood72 not pretty, he IS
Chopin is great but lacks what Scriabin delivers, which is that mystical ecstatic and desperate romanticism early on, later nightmarish and or/mystical. I also like his sense of motivic development better, it is more economical.
@@jacksongrant15 I agree, so instead of Chopin I always play a piece by Scriabin as encore in all of my solo piano concerts. 2 weekends ago on my birthday I played a Scriabin-Pejacevic concert… I’ll forever be celebrating Scriabin’s music… working towards performing all his 10 sonatas in concerts in 2025… quite an ambition for a trained cellist / self taught pianist!
ho yes !!!!!!! please bring the other recordings as well from this pure genius !!!!
All insights into "contoured space" are welcome and I am indeed greatly impressed by this achievement in authenticity.
Какое счастье, что у нас есть возможность услышать, как играл сам Александр Николаевич Скрябин... Его неповторимый, уникальный стиль исполнения, огромные, протяжённые на несколько фраз рубато, техника игры... Всё это было только у него одного... Спасибо!
He would have loved the graphic :-)
RollaArtis - What a wonderful work you've done here - thank you! I've always loved Skjabin - listened to Shukow's interpretation several times live - long time ago ... and now here - these recordings from 1908 - just a wonder how you brought them to life in such a magnificent way!
I try...
All those people repeating Scriabin is like Chopin… have you ever listened to Chopin? It’s not because Scriabin uses the same genre names for his pieces that he sounds like Chopin… For me Chopin and Scriabin have very little in common.
It all depends - it is well known that early works by Scriabin were heavily influenced by Chopin whom he idolized. The later works not so. In much the same way, the Nocturnes by John Field were 'copied' by Chopin...
The soul of Scriabin was there from the get go, and to me it is a more interesting one than Chopin's.
Scriabin memory lapse 8:55
It is interesting to hear him play it...doesn't have all the pedal that so many use and brings the melody out above everything else.
Glad to hear his rendition of the piece. I still like many of the modern interpretations of the piece by pianists today. There is a
melody in this piece that sounds something like the love duet sung in Tosca. It always brings me to mind of Puccini.
Thanks - Puccini, that's interesting. Both are of the period.
I wonder if the lack of pedal is due to the primitive recording technology though?
@@danielche2349it is really doubtful. This a roll and it would have captured the pedal fairly accurately.
Amazing... Thank you so much
In 1908 Scriabin made recordings for the Hupfeld 73 note 'Phonola' system and a lesser number for the Welte reproducing piano. Unlike the Welte rolls which are well known, the Phonola did not directly record the dynamics but did record the sustaining pedal. These 73 note rolls were later issued as standard 88 note rolls for export, these were intended for the Hupfeld 88 note Solophonola pedal operated player piano (but could also be 'played' on the 'Pianola' system). So not a 'reproducing' roll - however there is a printed line indicating the dynamics which can be increased or decreased by pressure on the pedals which changes the amount of vacuum in the stack (it's all pneumatic). The piano also has the 'Solodant' expression system so one can give a realistic reproduction of the music. So the dynamics and expression here are all controlled manually by me, whereas the Welte system controls dynamics and expression from the roll. But I happen to think that manual control gives better results. I also enhanced the bass slightly to improve the balance.
RollaArtis That is fantastic! From the book I read that there are those Phonola recordings: Etude op. 8, No. 8, Preludes op. 11, No. 10, 13, 14, Preludes op. 17, No. 3, 4, Sonata-Fantasie op. 19, Sonata No. 3, op. 23, Mazurkas op. 25, No. 1, 3, op. 40, No. 2, Poemes op. 32, No. 1, 2, Album Leaf op. 45, No. 1. You have some of these pieces on your channel. Are others anywhere to be found? Are you in possession of them? Do you plan on posting them? Thank you very much :)
Yes I have most of these. 2 or 3 of these I am still looking for but at least I have both Sonatas. These differ slightly from the score, the rubati and tempi of Op 23 is especially interesting as one might expect. Unfortunately at the moment my piano is out of action, but when I get the chance I will upload some more.
@@RollaArtis amazing.
Agreed - I don't trust the "touch" and dynamics of these recordings at all. Scriabin would clunk his way through this music like that?
This is beautiful! Many thanks.
потрясающая музыка , сколько в ней отчаяния и решительности
What other composer wrote like Scriabin....even though his early style was like Chopin, he had a distinct style....so melancholy, so emotionally painful, often so dark...yet so full of light....otherworldly
Reading his biography depicted a fascinating world in late 19th/early 20th Century Russia; he had a crazy short life
I compose inspired by him, always !
You only focus on your emotions you feel from listening, rather than the technological grandeur his music is, pathetic.
@@Whatismusic123 who are you to call what I think...pathetic!
@@Whatismusic123 I am fully appreciative of the total innovation of this genius you rude, judgemental person
@@kennethlim3382
"So melancholy, so emotionally painful, oftem so dark... yet full of light... otherworldly"
Seems like you fail to understand even the most basic of scriabin, but that comment was made a year ago so I may be wrong.
I have also decided to host a Scriabin International Music Festival online from New Zealand in Nov 2022. I just finished hosting the Hindemith & Copland Festival online a few days ago…
OK so it's not a recording of Scriabin from 1908, it's a recent recording of you :/
Well it is - and it isn't. What you hear is a 're-performance' of a digital recording (on a paper roll) of Scriabin's playing in 1908. There are various other versions on YT, some good some not so good. Compare.
Imagine he composed this masterpiece when he was 25.
God
Apotheosis
Indeed
Sounds like jazz)
Yes, in the 1900's Scriabin was the first to play 'jazz' music. His 4th Sonata for example, amongst many others.
You're right: Jazz pianist improvises!
That's an odd interpretation, very interesting, probably original and stuff. The variations in tempo are something beautifull and weird, old school style (?). I've listen Debussy's supposed interpretations and had the same perception. But I prefer Hamelin's interpretation (even over the composer's one) on these 10 magnificent sonatas - they are monuments in the piano world.
I read somewhere that Scriabin played his works differently every time - I think this is likely because for example there are two versions of the Op.32 Poeme he recorded. But Scriabin's version of the Op. 19 and 23 Sonatas are unique and totally unlike anyone (including Hamelin) Unfortunately his original style has never been replicated by anyone even Sofronitsky.
@@RollaArtis And we are blessed to have all these versions, with unique intentions and flavors! Cheers
Roberto Szidon is the only pianist who comes close to the Scriabin style
How do you think Ruth Laredo's performance compares? For me, her performance of the sonatas is the one I like best, and seems to define for me how I think the music should sound.
@@michaeledwards1172 Laredo is okay, I don't like the piano she uses to record, it's extremely dry. Her playing isn't the most fitting for Scriabin either, it's very heavy and grounded, which is fine but a lot of Scriabin's music requires extreme lightness. It's all my personal tastes though...
Fascinating!
Would love to hear how Scriabin would've played his 8th sonata... Did he like particular performances of it by some pianists?
Scriabin did not perform the 8th, it was too difficult for him. No record of Scriabin's approval on a certain rendition of the 8th is evident.
@@SCRIABINIST Too difficult for him? Wasn't he one of the top virtuoso pianists of his day? If he never played it, could there be another reason?
Like with the 6th Sonata, which apparently he never performed - publicly, at least. But that seemed to be because he was somehow frightened of it - of the dark forces he believed it summoned up (as best I can understand his reason) - but nothing to do with it being too difficult for him to play.
@@michaeledwards1172 No, there never existed a demonic force that prevented Scriabin from publicly performing the work. Although Scriabin believed it is a tragic Sonata, that is not the main reason that the composer didn't play it. In the Bowers biography, it was said that Scriabin had trouble memorizing the work and couldn't play it fully through by memory.
@@SCRIABINIST I always thought the insistence on playing from memory was overrated, sometimes almost bordering on fetishistic.
For goodness' sake, if he couldn't memorize it, wouldn't playing from the score be better than not playing it at all?
@@michaeledwards1172 It is more common in concert practice nowadays. Consider the time then, over 100 years ago, certainly the concert practice rules were far more strict, memorization was probably more emphasized then. Whether it's a good or bad aspect of pianism, it's up to the individual to decide.
Wow!!!! I want to listen his Sonata No.3
Haven't recorded it yet. BTW - glad to hear you are still pounding the piano at 118 years old.
@@RollaArtis Nyiregyhazi Scriabin 4 lol
Such a shame he didn’t record any of his piano works written after op57
Merci infiniment. Effectivement, ce rubato est hautement caractéristique et inimitable. Effectivement rien à voir avec Sofronitzky, que j'avais à tort imaginé comme le plus fiable.
I'm sorry, about the description: Shouldn't it be Boris Pasternak rather than Alexander?
Alexander was Boris' younger brother, he wrote a memoir of his early life in pre - revolutionary Russia, entitled 'A vanished present' in which he gives a description of Scriabin and his playing style.
Some people doubt it
in the reliability of the recording
of this performance.
Let us name someone
who could perform this?
I can name him.
Conductor Golovanov!
There is no one else!
Haven't heard of Golovanov - sounds interesting I will have a look.
Some people doubt the reliability of the recording even though Scriabin made these piano rolls in 1908. This is my recording of the rolls on my piano. What do they want?
@@RollaArtis Whatever they want,
let them want further!
@@viktorartemiev525 Golovanov is a god that's for sure. His recordings of Russian symphonic works are supreme.
AMAZING!
Vor allem ist es viel sparsamer pedalisiert, wodurch die harmonische Struktur viel klarer hörbar wird.
Skrjabins Pedalbewegung ist auf der Rolle aufgezeichnet, aber leider können Sie sie auf diesem Video nicht sehen. Ich bin mir ziemlich sicher, dass es richtig ist...
This is not the touch of a man so exquisite as Scriabin.
You must be quite old to have heard Scriabin play
6:59 Second Movement
0:23
mov1 00:20
mov2 7:00
After the third audition, I fell in love!
8 20 he throws the instrument down
and attacks him again!
Fantastic!
Scriabin may have been crazy but he knew how to play the piano. I don't trust this "Hupfeld" recording at all (but then if it's from 1908, it's miraculous). For a start the pedal has obviously not been reproduced properly - I mean, really? Scriabin the master of the Chopin tradition? And as for the touch - talk about clunky, even for a piano roll........Even some of the tempi.....but I don't know? What do others think? If this was really how Scriabin played this piece, then what would he think of Ashkenazy's transcendent recording? Some crazy lush sensuousist sent to destroy his music with decadence and New Age aural cushioning?
I suggest that you are ill informed. It's well known that in 1908 Scriabin recorded quite a number piano rolls for Hupfeld and Welte. Although the digital coding is incomplete (but the pedal is accurately so) they show that he was indeed 'Some crazy lush sensuouist...decadence and New Age aural cushioning'....Well, this is the essence of Scriabins music.
@@RollaArtis Exactly, Rollis! Crazy lush sensuousist, but perhaps minus the "New Age". Don't worry, although I will suggest that the pedalling is surely not "accurate", I'm completely on your side: Scriabin is at the very pinnacle of Russian, and European culture. I am on your side! (And, btw, thanks for the recording, whether it is accurate or not).
@@danpoynton The actions of the pianist on the keys and the pedal are quite accurate and were recorded on a roll. The dynamics were not recorded but were indicated. With this information I tried to recreate the playing using the controls of the Phonola but I could always make a slightly different version and put it up here. Some people will never 'believe' piano rolls but please note the D'Albert rolls I uploaded of the Schubert Impromptu and Beethovens Waldstein. He later recorded both of these works on Phonograph and one can compare. They are virtually identical, although the latter are of course abridged because of time constraints.
@@RollaArtis I appreciate what you're doing - a type of musical archaeologist. It's great. Of course we will never know how Scriabin's performance really was, for as you inform us, if the machine does not record dynamics then there is of course no nuance of touch, voicings and dynamics - in fact the whole heart of the performance! Only Scriabin can give us that - and certainly not another person manually "using the controls" - as all pianists will appreciate. It's also obvious that the machine is too crude to be capable of recording all the nuances of his pedalling. We could even question tempi and rhythm too of course...........As well - and if you are good pianist you will know this - you don't have the piano Scriabin played this recording on. Each piano has a completely different touch, balance, sound-world, b etc - including between different registers etc etc - a "soul" if you like. And then of course even the acoustic he played it in - makes a massive difference. And finally, with such a mercurial pianist as Scriabin was, who knows how he would have played it the next day...... I find this wonderful! We don't know how he exactly played it - and this frees our imagination to fly and recreate.......just as Scriabin would have loved it! Good work - keep searching! There's not one answer.....
@@danpoynton I see all your doubts and objections, seems that what you really want is a modern high fidelity recording. But its 1908 - and piano rolls were the only available medium. The fact remains that Scriabin himself recorded these piano rolls using a precision electro - mechanical recording device - nothing was crude. The resulting rolls are what they are, and I have no doubt that that my Phonola re-performance is largely accurate, certainly this is the only decent recording to be found anywhere of Scriabin playing his Sonata Fantasie.
I question the authenticity of this recording. There is no record of a full recording of the 2nd sonata on piano rolls. This is a hoax.
Why a hoax? In 1908 Scriabin made some recordings on piano rolls - its well known
You are right and I apologize. I was only aware of the Welte-Mignon. Thank you for posting these. Please explain more about the technology and how you recorded these, especially in regard to dynamics.
If you select the 'about' tab on my channel this gives an outline of the technology. Piano rolls all work in the same way, most of the German rolls such as those by Welte and Hupfeld were actual recordings of a pianist. In this recording by Scriabin the rolls are the standard 88 note Hupfeld type. Importantly the sustaining pedal was also included but the dynamics are only indicated, and have to be done by means of manually adjusting the vacuum levels as the roll progresses. So there is a certain amount of guess work involved, but the actual record of the keyboard manipulation by the pianist was largely accurate, though edited to some degree to eliminate errors.