How to Install a Flood Control System | This Old House
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Keeping sewage at bay with This Old House host Kevin O'Connor and plumbing contractor Dennis Langowski. (See below for a shopping list and tools.)
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Shopping List for Installing a Flood Control System:
cast-iron, twin check valve
ready-mix concrete
gravel and sand
rubber couplings
curved pre-cast concrete blocks
buckets and rope
Tools for Installing a Flood Control System:
pointed shovel
sledgehammer
nut driver
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How to Install a Flood Control System | This Old House
/ thisoldhouse
A homeowner that actually has a clue! 👍
I just got the same cast iron valve installed. We had a big storm a few months ago which caused flash floods and overwhelmed the city sewer system. Unfortunately when I called around it seemed like most plumbers were price gouging. I finally found one company that was reasonably at $8700 for the double valve system with precast concrete rings instead of blocks...others were charging 14.5 for the same system. Most of my neighbors got flooded but some had this system in place and worked well except for one but the system that the neighbor had was a single valve. Yes the #1 solution would be an overhead sewer but the cost is extremely high especially if you have a finished basement, over 25k that's just the system not including rebuild of any walls. My advice is to call 10-15 plumbers. I called 12 😁👍🏼
Where did you get that double cast valve from if you don't mind me asking?
gotta love the lead water supply pipes 😂😂😂😂😂😂
in canda the back flow prevention valves go in the basement.
they actually had someone go down there just to film up from the sewer drain? wow. thats dedication, lol.
Damien Nicholas probably a GoPro...
Paying that instead of fixing the problem...
its ok he was more than happy to do it hehe
After the recent big rains in New England, a follow up to see if theis system works would be good to see.
They definitely should have had a box in that trench, right? Although idk how they’d put the wall up with a box in there. Is there some sort of exception?
How much is something like that? Holy moly
The guy in the pit doing the work should have shored up the sides incase the dirt sides caved in while working. Very unsafe to work like that in a confined space.
It’s fine.
@@aelsi1337 these guys are pros. Nothing happened, they know what they’re doing
What a ridiculous expense to the homeowner because the city doesn't want to spend money upgrading their sewage.
Towns like this are cheaper to live in and houses are cheaper to buy
@@siriosstar4789 some towns litterally dont have rural septic or hydro and they are beautiful hand built houses, 1400 square foot house would cost you 40 thousans and 15 thousand for a solar array
Some areas are more prone to sewer flooding like my town. We have a river 1/3 of a mile away and it enhances the sewer flooding when we get a 4' to 8" rain storm.
Not all townships can afford that. And one must ask, why spend $$$ upgrading a perfectly fine sewer system when one can spend a fraction of that to fix it for themselves. Keep in mind money for public works comes straight from you via taxes. This is a far cheaper option overall.
@@mordyfisher4269 \ Not the taxes
I love that it was still a lead pipe feeding the house water.
What I did not hear was how old was the PVC one in installed Some plumbers installed the plastic because is light and easier to work with and always say the same this is guaranteed to work compared to the cast iron which will last 50plus years is harder to work with if it's done right but works better.
How much pressure was on this waste water to blow up a one way check? Also where is the shoring on this hole? OSHA would not be pleased.
Why does TOH never show the finished product?!
Because it was never finished lol
With a normal dump have enough momentum to pass through 2 brass flaps???
You also have more chance of flooding buy one of them Gates being stuck with a piece of paper or a solid
Shouldn't the city be charged for this if it is installed in a home already having issues. They even said it blew off due to being over pressured by the Cities system. I mean if they are backflowing homes because their system is jacked up or over loaded , it shouldnt be on the homeowner to correct their (the city) problem
Did he say lead pipe the that supplies water to the house?
Its NOT just FLINT Mi ~ when a gov buys pipe do you think they buy from local suppliers or get bulk from one....... might not be the whole nation but you can bett its the whole state
Do a little research it's a very common issue. At least 12 million homes have them.
Not that I wouldn't replace mine ASAP, but lead service lines are perfectly safe as long as diversity-hires at the local water dept. don't allow low pH to remove the protective scale.
Where can I order or get one of those double cast iron flood traps or back water valves?
Like how they gloss over the lead pipe. lol. Hope she replaced that too
My brother just today sold his house in subrbs of detroit because his basement keeps flooding and he didnt want to spend $8,000. City installed PVC pipes and they colapsed but wont fix d problem.So he bought a new house
I am watching this after cleaning up my basement in ferndale. Considering going the same route as your brother lol
40" of sewage in the basement, ah the joys of home ownership.
Isn’t a sewage line not supposed to be in the same trench as potable water? Also, what about that lead water line?
The drains in my basement floors in the Chicago suburbs simply have screw caps. Laundry tub drain has a gate valve. No flooding.
If the pressure is high enough the screw caps can blow off. Another option is to install an 18" stand pipe in the floor drain to effectively raise the height of the basement floor 18". You can't install a taller stand pipe because the water pressure could buckle the floor. And some basement floors should not be standpiped at all.
Adding cement to cover both the check valves??? That's a mistake. Try repairing that mess in the future!
I'm pretty sure they didn't cement the couplings so you can just remove it by unscrewing those and chipping the cement. That thing would be good for 20 to 30 years though
RIP Dennis Langowski 😢
I've looked all over for the cast, iron , twin valve and no luck. Anybody know where to get it?
They left the lead water service line in place? Should have replaced that since they were working in the pit.
Cost of that job???????
NOW: 8 to 10K
@Pyroman / OMG
john smith I would say at least 10 grand
Hello. Is this something that can be installed in NYC?
To clean the flapper would be a nightmare. It would require a lot of out going force to move two flappers.
Cool
No residential homes in New Jersey have check valves. A lot have house traps but that’s it. What state is this? Our sewers are like 15 plus feet and rain liters are separate. No way rain water will come back up
Park Ridge, Il Parks Plumbing is the plumbing contractor in Skokie, Il. I worked for Hausman Plumbing also in Skokie 2 blocks from Parks old man Ed guarantee his customers they would never flood again know why ? We installed OHS. Bsmt drain is not physically connected to the city sewer. Had to do once a year maintenance on either sump or ejector pumps the only way you would get back up is if the pump check valve failed or no power so we started to install Sumpro battery back up system. It’s like a back up generator so when the power goes out the system will keep the existing pump with power for up to 36 hrs. I got an electrician who can install the Sumpro for that backflow they replaced , the unit is inside the bsmt. So you can still use the plumbing via pump. These back flows are still physically connected to the city sewer into the bsmt. OHS much better than the back flow devices. OHS is overhead sewer Hausman did 90% of the flood controls in the Northshore area from the 50’s to early 90’s chicago and its older suburbs have combine sewers. They been working on the deep tunnel for decades they are almost done they have 2 reservoirs to complete.
This was filmed in Chicago. Their sewer and storm water are in the same system.
Why do I have a feeling I can't just go buy a cast-iron double check valve sewer line at my local Home Depot?
Cause Home Depot and all other home stores are not specialized.
Go to Menards.
That single valve cost around $160 at menards!
@@uwetoob9265 You'll save big money...
Why does a storm impact the sanitary sewer line? In my state sanitary sewer lines and storm water lines are entirely separate.
Many older cities have combined sewer and runoff water systems. They're cheaper, but they always run the risk of flooding basements or being overwhelmed during storms.
Hey how are you ?
Good ,yourself
We have a huge hole here why?
So since they concreted in the cast iron if it ever fails they have to jack hammer it out?
That was precisely my thought as they were finishing up. I could understand giving the new section some sort of support from below. This is in a Chicago suburb/near suburb. So, I don't think they need to worry about substantive ground movement due to seismic activity (I'm in Calfornia). Even if that replacement valve section is full of water, it's hard for me to imagine that it's "full" weight would require it to be partially buried in concrete. Maybe I got that part wrong. Or, just hope you die before it has to be replaced.
Bought a house year ago. I had the same thing happened to my basement. Sewer back up. Happened 3 times. One time it was so bad. Almost destroyed my furnace. Nasty water came inside. There was shit on my basement floor. Disgusting. I had to install 2 check valves But you need to have access to them and need to clean them twice a year.
John McLain lmao or replace your sewer main line. Where do you live
I'd be more worried about the lead pipe drinking water line...
Move to the country. Septic system and a well. At least nobody elses crap in your basement.
I would of replace the water line since it was dug up already
At what point do you look at your Chicago-sized property tax bill, your lead service lines, and your $15K band-aid on your city's antiquated sewer system, and ask yourself, *_"What am I even paying for??_*
We do it every year, actually.
overhead sewer is the way to go your house will never flood whether it's plastic or brass the gates will fail
Overhead sewer?!
@@gtarules1 yes instead of the floor your sewer comes out on one of your walls
And this is why the UK has separate systems for sewage and surface runoff.
Most of the United States does, too. There's two separate systems where I live, and the sanitary sewer still becomes overwhelmed during record rain fall, and flooding. It happened twice in the last 25 years. In the 1980s it became against code to have the sewer line below the basement floor. Any below grade drains must be pumped into the sewer.
While we have to ground dug out lets do nothing about the lead supply line?
It wasn’t concrete until
they added the sand and aggregate.
Wow they have their sewage and supply waterline in the same hole and It look like the supply waterline had some type of clips or couplings on it. I would think that would be bad. should be separate.
I feel sorry for the next guy that has to fix it..
The confederate flag is racist
@@donavan4481 No it is not. You are racist for trying to play a race card.
@@KameraShy could you elaborate on how im playing a race card?
Led drinking line ! Toxic drinking water is not good
Janet? That's Joan Cusack! Look her up.
I don't know about Joan Cusack, but, this is filmed in Chicago or a suburb because Park's Flood Control is in Skokie, which borders Chicago on the northside.
No shoring. Guess this company does not care if it's employees get killed. No clean out in front of the system. Guess this company does not care if it costs the homeowner more money to have the sewer cleaned in the future. Good that they used cast iron for this job though. But there were some major short cuts with those two items alone. Wonder what the finished product looked like.
Never really liked or believed in backwater valves on sewer mains. You never know when the check closes in the event the main in the street backs up. Homeowners could still run water on their side of the check, not knowing it had already closed, and still have flooding inside their home before they knew what was happening.
Debris from the wastes being flushed down those sewers can still get lodged in between the check clapper and the part where it closes against the body of the valve allowing sewage to leech past the check anyways.
Contractors in this video did not necessarily provide the most safe work environment for themselves either. Always work safe out there, everybody!
Yeap tampons paper waste products will get stuck on the flapper (s) and won’t close 100%. Mechanical system
Correct. The best option is a Sewer Gate Valve. They also require maintenance though. Per Balkan:
"A sewer valve is unique and designed differently than any other type of water valve or gate valve. A valve used to prevent ‘backwater’ (waste water) from entering into a building from the public sewer system is exposed to corrosive water, waste, grit, and other solids. For that reason this type of valve does not use a typical ‘seated gate’ - a ‘knife edge gate’ is employed. A knife edged gate is specifically designed for controlling the flow of a wide variety of materials, such as found in pulp plant, paper plants, mining, and waste water treatment plants who’s flow contains solid materials. Unlike for instance a valve meant for drinking water."
em... so the pump failed you said? where's the pump?
it's in there but in this case the pump didn't really fail. All that means in this case is if the pump is capable of pumping say 100 psi, there was more than 100 psi trying to get in so the pump failed in that it failed to pump it out harder than it was coming in. This is to be expected especially since it's probably designed to be a build up intermittent pump (that is, it can't hold 100 psi constantly, like an air compressor, it does it in bursts, then needs to charge up). Basically the pump didn't stop working, it just failed to provide more pressure outwards than was being pushed inwards. It did perform within spec though prolly.
Solution? Replace everything!
lead pipe supplying water to the house? did anyone catch that??????
Yep, there are an estimated 12 million homes with lead water service lines in the United States. I believe lead service lines were officialy outlawed for new or replacement hook ups in 1986. Many places a lead service line was code. Tell tax payers demand there all replaced they will probably be with us another 100 years
That looks expensive.
Sounds like a shity situation
daniel brown
When one lid does not work, add a second. And for some reason make it cast iron.
Cast iron can handle higher backflow pressure, but the only reason for two I could see is to buy time for the pit to drain.
Cast iron check valve held on by a rubber coupling, lol
Well, if you want to pay for cast iron all the way to the city sewer main, I'm sure she won't mind, except all the digging that has to be done to install the cast iron.
This looks like such an easy, inexpensive solution, I think I have been inspired never to move into that neighborhood or buy that house. Having almost 4 feet of sewage water in the basement is a real turn-off too. 🤮
Many places in the US are combined sewer systems in whole or in part; once any system is overloaded it seeks an outlet. I just had 9-12 inches of water in my basement outside Chicago after some 8 inches of rain fell in two hours. I got lucky compared to some neighboring towns. The backflow preventer was the only thing that would have saved me. Nobody is gonna raise their taxes for the millions needed to double or triple sewer system piping to handle combined storm water and sanitary sewer flows, and it would take years to replace all the lines, pumps, etc. to handle what has been called a 500-year flood.
Did he say LEAD water pipe! YIKES!
How the hell does storm water make it into the sewer?
Some places have rain water enter the sewer system while other places have separate systems.
Sounds like a nightmare fore the treatment plant.
Yeah unfortunately many places have combination sewer and storm water systems. Many cities are slowly replacing them with separate systems but it costs so much.
It is - that's why combined systems are more common in older cities that built them before sewage treatment was done. In the old days they just drained everything into the nearest convenient river.
William Lee If I'm not mistaken cities with combined systems are required to have storage capabilities for a "reasonably large rainfall" I know where I live the waste treatment plant can handle a storm dropping about 2 inches over the entire city, which while it doesn't sound like much is actually a very big storm. If your ever curious I'm sure whoever the people are at your local waste treatment plant will be glad to tell you, maybe even give you a tour if you call ahead. They don't even smell bad, waste treatment management nowadays is really efficient
I personally would rather have a overhead sewer system. No moving parts to worry about and no pump to replace outside.
See my reply to Andrew 4-5 spots above
Cast iron, good old rust.
Sounds like Janet knows more than this plumber...
never trust a plumber. Most of them are full of 💩
Rehearsed script
Why didn’t they just strap down the lid on the old one?
one. The pipe itself was damaged. Two. if you got to replace it. upgrade so it wont (likely) happen again.
I don't know why but I cringed at this part 0:39
Because the line was plastic, I knew that was the problem.
Plastic under pressure can be very strong as well. And it doesn't rust. It was just a stupid design. They should make the cap a bit tougher, and make the hinge function on it's own instead of relying on the cap.
No trench shoring? If that trench collapses that dude's dead
oh man...
What did that cost, like $20,000?
No, much cheaper...$19.995.95
Around Chgo area, 8 to 10k
So we have backing up sewage and a lead water line. That's bad enough. What's even worse is that it's in the same hole.
Sewer lines and water lines are run together when initially installed. It's normal.
How is utilities sharing a trench WORSE than a sewer back up? It makes me lol when the armchair contractors go "b-but they're in the same hole hurr durr" it's been done this way forever. The only reason it has fallen out of favor is bc it's easier to hit a water line when digging. Do you think sewage is gonna find its way into a pressurized water line?
also lead pipes are fine so long as the source water is not acidic. A protective layer of scale naturally forms on the inside of the pipes and prevents leeching. Only when the layer dissolves due to acidic source water does it become a problem. This is what happened in Flint
Where was his excavation box!? That guy in the pit could've been killed if the dirt collapsed on him
nathan Adkins That dirt wasnt going anywhere... you dont need a box lol the dirt isnt going to jump into the hole is it?
Using PPE's is not about arguing whether if it's needed or not on your own discretion. There are laws and government organisations that require and check that you use it where prescribed. Just like you have to wear a helmet on ANY building site, even if there isn't anything build up yet.
Agree, that was the first thing I said. I work in a similar industry and we don't enter until shoring is in place.
“I can tell you exactly what happened....” The men look at her in disgust as if to say, “quiet lady, the men are speaking here!”
I'd sell that house, move out of that city
Shouldn't the city being doing this work?
Most places it is on the home owner once it passes a set point. For sewage it is generally until it dumps in the main it is the home owner. For water, electrical and gas it is once it gets to the meter it is now the home owners cost to fix/upgrade. Then again there are some fun ones like having to pay for a everyone else can use thing like a new larger transformer but then there is nothing like dumping $10,000-40,000 into their equipment because they don't feel like upgrading the 40 year old transformer.
city governments are a scam, who would have guessed
If the city can't maintain their own infrastructure... why would they pay for her band-aid?
Forcefully pumps sewage into an already blocked sewer line? Seems like a good idea.
It forces it into homes that don’t have a flood control sewer is not blocked the city main sewer is overflowing can’t handle the capacity.
OMG, that’s terrible to see the LEAD water service pipe there and it’s Not replace it!!!!!!!!!
I’m pretty sure these guys need to take a trenching safety course.
Wow! Am I right to believe that if you need that type of backwater valve system to protect your house from the water coming from the city then you may as well live in another neighbourhood as your french drains will not work while your backwater valve is in operation. There is so much water pressure coming from the city. To break a plastic backwater valve system requires a lot of pressure. I would be worry about how good your city water drainage system is if you constantly have to protect your house from backwater. I am not a plumber yet that sound fishy! Impressive yet fishy. Does it rain a lot in that area? Do people pee a lot in that area? Beer drinkers? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
French drains go straight into the groundsoil, not diverted to stormwater. You’re thinking of a drain tile system. Have to do a dry well for your drain tiles if using this sort of system. Also chicago has had a few outlier rain events in the past few decades where municipal and home systems were totally overwhelmed.
You're thinking of drain tiles connected to the sanitary sewer system, which was made illegal back in the '60's I think. If your house was built before then (as I'm sure this lady's was) you're usually grandfathered in, but I'm sure she disconnected LONG ago given the sewer issues indicated by the "industrial" nature of her back flow preventer? Seriously, I've never seen anything like this! Most people just chip up their basement floor and install something the size of a shoebox.
He took Richard's job.
Does anyone notice that they're illegal as hell with no trench shoring?
What plumbers use shoring? We don't even wash are hands!
He learn at roto rooter
Cast-iron really?
Much stronger than PVC
That'll be $25K please.
Flood control is only like 10k
Hey Nunya, I believe that her home insurance covered the cost.
Why not just replace the pump?
U
Some of the poo water got on the camera lens
Not Code in Chicago. Typical find in Chicago. This woman is highly misinformed. A little knowledge is dangerous for some people. (yes that was an insult) Poor and incomplete presentation and installation. Why? The system you present is only a backwater preventing system(double check valve). The home owner cannot use water in the home during a flooding situation because is will back out of the basement gravity sewer drain as it has no where to go. They must have an overflow, a sump basin at the bottom no smaller than 20" x 40" with a 2" ejector pump at the bottom to force domestic waste water from the vault basin into the city system. I have been in the flood control business for 40+ years and have installed thousands of flood control system in Cook County alone. Parks usually hires my rejects. In that neighborhood, overhead sewers would have cost more, but would be a much better option.
I recently moved to Addison and I'm experiencing the same problem: Water backing up through the floor drains in the basement. What do you recommend as the best solution? Overhead sewer system? Flood control system? Any other possible solutions?
Lmao @ all the people saying the city should pay for it. You do realise the city pays for these things via your tax money yes? You are footing the bill either way.
Yeah but a few dollars if not pennies on my tax bill is better than a 5-10k job
going to cost em more in lawsuits
brass? isn't that too soft?... so crap that the whole system needed to be replaced
No shoring? Amateurs.
I noticed this also.
I’d rather sell my house
Wow - what a sh*t system!
He mentioned lead pipe....yikes
Did he just lead water pipe?!?!?! Wahhhhh
Tyler Mills it’s not that bed
All that time and money spent on new system. All they had to do was tighten the backwater valve
someone forgot to tighten the housing cap. Simple Fix!
this is an expensive job just get a sump pump
the sump pump isn't going to stop the sewage from entering the home.
ike fun You are a lesbian feminist with PMS?
Tell me you know nothing about plumbing without telling me you know nothing.
Lead water supply pipes, combined sewer and storm drains... Wow! It`s like living in the Middle Ages!!
Lead supply lines started back in the Roman times so back more then the middle ages when the only places with running water where monetarists. Middle ages sewers are also known as open windows to dump the chamber pot from. The Romans again had combined sewage/storm water but that died out with the fall so didn't make it back till the 1800's.
Plumbing is actually named after lead so there will always be a tie in for those that remember history.
Unless someone invests a few trillion dollars into it we will have lead pipes around for a few more generations as not only are individual houses lines made from it so are some of the mains or they are sealed with lead. Expensive both to the home owners and the cities to replace so they leave it as a time bomb waiting till they have to fix it.
Combined sanitary sewers and storm drains were quite common until relatively recently. A lot of older neighborhoods and cities have them. Same with lead pipes, which are generally fine as long as you don't screw up the water chemistry.
Ask this OLD house, dummy! It's supposed to be old....
@@ClicketyClack lead pipes can be poisonous if you have bad water and they are soft and can easily make holes if the preasure of the water is big
@@TheUserid82 in the old part of my city they changed the lead and iron pipes 20-30 years ago i think and the lead pipes in houses where replaced cause the water system got upgrated and lead could not hold the preasure only the lead swage pipes remain in houses but they fail all the time from the chemicals that fall into them and they are replaced the city has plastic and clay pipes for swage