Stimulants & Anxiety
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 апр 2024
- ou might be inadvertently increasing your anxiety through stimulants like caffeine.
#anxiety #anxietysupport #caffeination #coffeeaddict
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @drscotteilers
Get Practical tools for navigating life with depression and anxiety, delivered weekly.
mailchi.mp/90ccaf44c876/self-...
My book: For When Everything is Burning
bit.ly/forwheneverythingisbur...
Organize your day around your mental health goals with Sunsama
bit.ly/DrScottSunsama (affiliate link)
The app I use to learn core principles from thousands of nonfiction books in minutes
shortform.com/drscott (affiliate link)
Connect with me on TikTok:
/ dr.scott.eilers
Therapy with me (Iowa residents only)
www.northstarpsychcenter.com/
Work with me (Non-Iowa residents)
www.drscotteilers.com/
Disclaimer: This content is not intended to be a replacement for receiving treatment. It is purely educational in nature. My relationship with you is that of presenter and audience, not therapist and client.
But I do care.
I have suspected narcolepsy or otherwise idiopathic hypersomnia and the fatigue makes me want to die but the anxiety caused by stimulants sucks too.
I've had hypersomnia my whole life (though I didn't know until my first year of college) and developed narcolepsy somewhere between age 17 and 23 (confirmed after getting mono at age 23 - a common precursor to things like narcolepsy - but I also had mono at 17 and I felt the same starting then, so most likely it actually started then). I'm finally on a good dosage of a medication that's working quite well for me in daily life (just 5 mg of Armodafinil, the lowest dosage); it took a ton of trial and error and it's the first medication that has ever helped me without terrible side-effects (it was an 8 year search). It effectively adds a few hours onto my day that wouldn't be there otherwise, with no "stimulant" feeling (I literally can't "feel" that I'm taking it, which is exactly what I wanted after experiencing all of the craziness detailed below).
Below this I yap about my experiences on stimulants. It's long, mostly I just wrote it for cathartic reasons, but maybe it's useful to someone considering stimulants or someone that's experienced what I did, otherwise you can ignore it lol.
--- --- ---
The problem, though, is that this 8 year search meant that I've been on hiatus from school for the last 8 years... my life has effectively been on hold. And while it helps me in my day-to-day life, life outside of academics is orders of magnitude easier than with academics, so I'm still far and away from what I need to stay awake to do homework and study when I go back to college.
Anyway, the other stimulant medications were wild for me. I truly was not "at the driver's seat" when I took them, and looking back I'm seriously surprised I didn't seriously hurt myself or worse. I legitimately couldn't do the most basic daily functions. I would need to clean the floor, but I'd have to sit on my bed and think through what causes floors to get cleaned. "Oh right, stupid, I need the vacuum." That took me 5+ minutes to come to that conclusion. I'd get up and walk out the door... wait what was I doing? I'd turn around, point at things in the room, "that's good, that's good... what am I forgetting? Phone... keys... wallet... Dude I have no idea what I'm trying to do." I'd sit back on the bed, and either just think to myself or do something on my phone when "oh right! The floors!" Sometimes I'd remember immediately that I needed the vacuum, sometimes I'd have to start the whole process again, this might repeat several times. Finally I'd make it out to the living room and grab the vacuum maybe thirty minutes later, I'd drag it over to my bedroom and... hmm... something is really overwhelming about this vacuum. I *know* I've used it before, but I can't seem to figure out what I'm supposed to do next. I'm standing there staring at it, looking around the room looking for a clue, something that'll trigger an old memory of what I did before, sweating.... I decide to sit on my bed, in disbelief and utter confusion that I can't figure out what I'm supposed to do next and being hyper-aware of the fact that I absolutely *know* this but can't seem to draw out the knowledge of it. It's insane. Maybe I should document this so I can tell my psychiatrist? Wait, how do I even do that? Whatever, I'm being dumb, let's get this over with - I'm sure I can figure this out. Wait... what am I figuring out? I point at objects around the room... "that's good... that's good...."
Vacuuming my bedroom became a 4 hour ordeal. All of my chores and errands became this, for a full year until I finally got off of the medications. In the moment it's a crazy, stressful, painful whirlwind, you think to yourself "this is bad, I really need help" but you don't have the power of hindsight to come to the actual realization that you legitimately *do* need help and it's legitimately extremely bad. It's not until years later that I can look back at that and be like "holy shit, an entire day was me just trying to figure out how to cook a meal, crying because I don't know what to do, falling asleep at the counter, finally making something, sleeping at the table, waking up and realizing how much more effort I need to put into putting the food away and doing dishes, crawling against the wall to my bed and taking a nap, waking up hours later to finally put the leftovers away and trying to do some dishes... and I did that again the next day and the next day for an entire year!"
Another stimulant-caused experience I like telling people because of its absurdity and being a funny situation (now that I'm years separated from it; are the time it was absolutely awful): I was driving and forgot how to turn left. My ride home from work was a right turn from the business, go straight for about 5 minutes, then a left turn at a light, and then a right turn to the house. The problem: as I approached the light I thought to myself "I know my house is over there, but I don't know what to do to get my car there..." Frustrated, I sped back up and continued forward. I had a second (and final) chance at an upcoming light. I slow down, come to a stop... but again I can't figure out how to get *there*. I'm not in the turning lane (since that would require me turning left, something I can't figure out how to do), so the cars behind me and blaring their horns. At this point I'm crying so much that I can't even see the road, and I floor it. I still have no idea if the light was even green. I continued on for a while, somehow finally remember some quote about "three rights make a left, but three rights don't make ... something wrong?" I start getting angry with myself but finally realize "wait shit, the first part of that... I'll do that!" And, tears streaming down my face, feeling like an absolute child, I did a series of right turns through my town until I got home.
There's a lot more stories like this. I basically got to experience very early in life what dementia or Alzheimer's must feel like. It's crazy to not be able to do the things that you know you have the knowledge to do. Something so logical like turning left becomes an impossibility, it makes absolutely no sense unless you've experienced it.
It's weird that I've come out of those situations, and I'm doing better now, but there's this weird part of me that thinks... man, that guy should have ended it. He had every right to, and honestly it almost seemed like it would have been the correct choice even knowing it would prevent me right now from existing. It's an odd thought, but something I think about every so often. I wish I could go back and help that guy. But I'll probably be saying that about my current self in a few years; maybe I'm unaware of the things I'm currently going through even right now. Further... I'm horrified to ever experience those things again, but someday I'll need to increase my stimulant or take something more if I ever want to finish school... it's scary knowing the very likely experiences and heightened anxieties I'll go through again when I have to take on school again with stimulants.
Wow why would you type all this @@zants_
Stimulants make me more physically anxious but less mentally anxious.
My heart rate and sweating will increase, but my social inertia will decrease significantly. I’ll be way more social and it gives me a big confidence boost. I don’t like the physical toll it takes on the body though. After a day of stimulant use, I’m exhausted and sore.
Exactly my experience.
My friend with ADHD experienced exactly this. Mental anxiety and depressive ruminating/spiralling 95% gone and much more confident but more physical anxiety symptoms.
She quit caffeine and took magnesium to counter the increased catecholamines from the stimulants and she has never felt better.
Absolutely! I've watched my mother drink coffee all day and up to bedtime most of my life and she is anxiety walking! I haven't been able to get her to stop. 😭
I've learned to limit my caffeine, but I admit sometimes I'll take a 2-3 oz. sip after work if I feel exhausted. I know I shouldn't, and I usually pay.🥴
The insidious part is that, even though you almost always have a bad experience from caffeine/coffee, you always remember-and chase after-that memory of that *one time* that it actually worked, and it completely changed your entire day. You want to experience that again. It's like you won it big on a scratch-off ticket once, and so you keep playing to hit it again, "maybe this time..."
This i a very specific example, but I want to share it was I find it fascinating. I've had struggles my entire life both mentally, socially and physically. I'm 33 in a few days and only in the past few years have I finally been diagnosed with ADHD, Autism, Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and complex PTSD. I have A LOT of stress/anxiety because of the way that my nervous system works, but drinking caffeine (specifically from cola as any other source makes me nauseous/ill) always helped med stay calm. I was first diagnosed with ADHD and learned that many with ADHD get calmer because of caffeine as it works as a stimulant. But then I got ADHD medication (and ditched the cola) and it made my anxiety much, much worse. I also have POTS symptoms (like as a result of EDS) and they skyrocketed when I took ADHD meds. I couldn't stand without my heart racing. Then I got diagnosed with Autism... then that lead to EDS as many with autism also suffer from EDS. I learned that with EDS your body's tissues are different (looser) and it can affect your blood vessels, leading to POTS symptoms. In POTS, what happens is that when you stand, your body has to work harder to pump blood around your body and to do that, your brain sends signals (norepinephrine) that is supposed to contract the muscles around your heart and make it pump harder/slightly faster. But if your blood vessels are looser than normal, this process does not work as intended and instead, your system keeps pumping out norepinephrine, leading to increased heart rate but without it working properly, making you dizzy, confused, your muscles weak (especially muscles above the heart).
I ditched the ADHD meds and went back to cola as it was clear that the meds didn't work for me. I was confused because I thought that the reason cola heled me was because it worked as a low dose of ADHD meds and I expected the meds to work even better. The moment I ditched the meds and drank cola again I could suddenly stand and do some chores without my heart freaking out and without being dizzy or my muscles feeling weak.
So, why was this? Turns out that caffeine contracts your blood vessels. In a normal functioning body, this can lead to negative symptoms as now they're too contacted and you won't get enough blood circulating. But if you have EDS and looser veins, the contraction can help normalise your veins. So the reason caffeine help me so much is because it contracts my blood vessel, meaning my POTS symptoms and anxiety are lowered significantly. On the other hand, the ADHD meds contained norepinephrine and therefore made it all worse as it flooded my body with even more stress hormones.
I find this so friggin interesting. I'd work in the field of psychology/brain science for sure if I didn't have so many issues that I can't. But fascinating it is!
Scott, this is an awesome point and so true….but for those watching who may not know this - it is not necessarily the case if you have ADHD. Stimulants tend to act differently on a brain with ADHD and when prescribed correctly can actually calm the person with ADHD down (to oversimplify) and even address some hyperactivity that might have been misdiagnosed as anxiety. Note: you can still have anxiety as a comorbidity of ADHD, and you may still experience an uptick in it if the prescription stimulant is incorrectly dosed, more than one substance is added into the mix that may interact or increase the activity of the stimulant, the stimulant or formulation prescribed (there are a bunch…) is not the right one for the patient, or something in that patient’s health/biology/life changes and it is time to adjust the drug or dose - said the pharmacist and ADHD *and* anxiety sufferer. 😊
Thank you for this short (and the chance to add to the conversation!)
I was diagnosed with ADD and tried Adderall. First, I'm not ADD and second Adderall is a disaster. Watch the people diagnosing you. Few are skilled. Not enough Dr Scotts out there.
I came here to ask this. Thank you. I’d love to hear Dr Eiler’s answer to this as well.
For me those meds kinda "focus" my thinking process.. which is what they are supposed to do i guess. Usually this leads to thinling less or more organised, more in straight ways idk. But i feel like they can also lead to focussing on bad thoughts, however i have to have a reall bad day for this. AND its easier to focus on positive thoughts to counteract. I generally feel like i have more controll over my thoughts and my executives. Still not great buuut its a start :D
I have ADHD (inattentive). Stimulants DO add to my anxiety. They do NOT calm me down or slow my racing thoughts. I take stimulants due to my hypersomnelence, which is a result of my type of ADHD, as well as depression.
And yes - I have an official diagnosis and I consulted multiple psych professionals about my reaction to the stimulants.
@saltyparabolas9561 for one period I also felt like they would enhance negative thoughts/spiraling... but when the reason was gone (I felt really bad) it helped to not slip back into random negative thoughts. Maybe some things require more a therapy approach instead of only medicine.
The medicine is fine, but I think it would be for nothing without therapy (in my case)
Prescription stimulants are 99% effective for treating my anxiety, but caffeine makes it worse.
I made the same experience.
Caffeine works on a completely different mechanism so that definitly makes sense!
For me personally, the source of coffeine also matters a lot. Normal coffee makes me shaking and alerted but mentally im still tired.. and espresso its more the other way around :D but mostly coffee does not help to focus, it just helps to stay awake and think less "meh i want sleep"
I have depression and some anxiety. The fatigue is worse than the anxiety, so there's no way to function without caffeine.
Lately, I take lisdexamfetamindesilat on working days, because otherwise I can't do my job. The substance makes me waaaayyy LESS anxious!! Even in relatively small doses (20 mg). The disadvantage is though, I have trouble to get to sleep at night ...
I'm the same way, I cannot function in the world or work without lisdexamphetamine for my depression and apathy. It allows me to have some motivation and a little confidence.
Sometimes it increases my anger. Could you speak a little about anger and depression? For me they kind of cycle back and forth. Thanks.
Can you do a video on alcohol and anxiety/depression…
Thank you))
I can't get off the pepsi.
Caffeine is terrible for my anxiety. A small dose can cause me panick attacks.
But I'm on wellbutrin which is a stimulant antidepressant and it slow down my thoughts, in a positive way, not sedative. Also intrusive thoughts are gone and I can think clear and better. It gives me mental order
❤🎉thanks for advice, I bet sugar/candy is just as bad as coffee🎉❤
Coffee is not bad, just drink one every one or two days and without sugar or milk
I limit myself to one cup of coffee in the morning. Anything later is either decaf or herbal.
I'm trying to do the same, really helps
I need the caffeine to make it through 12 hour shifts though! What else can us nurses do?! I need my preworkout to get through work lol
I take ashwagandha for anxiety, works brilliantly but unfortunately makes me tired. I also take saffron for low mood and maca root. So far the cobo is good but I have trouble sleeping. I'm trying to limit coffee to 1 cup in the morning.
Caffeine (stimulants) provide a needed lift when I feel down (depressed). A case of help one, hurt another. What is a person to do?
For me it depends on the specific stimulant and time of day. Coffee between noon and 6pm? Bad. But I have ADHD and can take Ritalin to help me sleep when I have anxiety.
When I know I'll be especially anxious, I limit or avoid caffeine. I'd rather be a little tired than shaking from fear + caffeine.
I have a caffeine addiction. I just love coffee and I would reduce espressoes to 2/3 per day
Ya think
👍👍👍
Two cups of coffee, 50g of chocolate/pastry, 30 g of honey/sugar, 150g of bread, 80g of pasta, plus a couple of fruits. Are they too much as "stimulants" in a day? I don't know: I use them to support me. No soft drinks, no other sugars. Just occasionally a slice of cake or a pizza. This is just living, tho. To be honest my anxiety is produced by toxic connection and that increases the desire of coffee/sugars Toxic connections=anxiety, in my experience. Thanks. 🙏🏻🙏🏻
I am learning how to use SD and I am making LoRA models. Do you want a LoRA model?
I'm not a good sleeper I am extremely tired in the morning. Can anyone suggest for me an alternative to coffee that would give me some energy? I can't find anything
Dr. Brooke Goldner on youtube. She is Life on youtube every Wednesday and does answer Questions for free! She is specialist in sleep and so on
5 minutes exercising and contrast shower. Take a regular shower, and at the end, use much cooler water for 10 seconds.
Warming teas like Ginger and Cinnamon. Freshly chopped Ginger in a pot of hot water feels really stimulating.
It's tough, and I'm not the best sleeper either! Really, the best thing is to try to fix your sleep, which is so hard, I know. Good luck to you!❤
Daylight.
Missed being a youtube short by 2 seconds😂