The Role of the Modern Shotgunner w/
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- In todays video Risky Chrisky and I shoot a number of drills comparing the effectiveness of the shotgun to the semi automatic rifle. We are shooting the drills in the trench and on a flat range. We have a good discussion on why we would or would not choose the Shotgun in 2023. Grab a drink, sit back and enjoy the show guys. This video is one of my favorite to date on the channel. Cheers!
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Is there a place for the Shotgunner in modern combat? Post your comments down here and be chill with each other. Cheers!
A situational weapon like a shotgun dominates certain situations. I don't think it should be the gun you take on property patrol, but the dude protecting a static enclosed position will fuck up anyone in a hallway
Or a trench. It's the modern "Battle of Thermoplae" solution. If they make it close, they won't go home.
Just IMO
Any place where expected engagement distances are =/< 100 yards.
Trenches... check
Breaching... check
CQB... check
Triple canopy jungles... check
Ship boarding... check
Just for breaching doors really .
Try using your left arm shooting around those left hand corner shots for quicker shots .
Based on recent conflicts a shotgun and some birdshot is potentially good for drone control.
Edit: they mentioned this in the vid.
Goes without saying 👍🏻
I Miss watching Risky Chrisky videos..
1 inch of spread per yard with buck. 25 yards = 25 inches of spread
However , when using federals flight control 00 buck it’s the game changer
At 25 yards all 32 cal. Pellets will fit on a sheet of paper 8 1/2” X 11” (spread)
Fold your paper target in half long ways.(hostage target). Use the federal flight control 00 at 7, 10, 15 yards. It will become your favorite 00.
Retired LE Thunder Stick Instructor
Loved your videos!
Yes
As to the range of a shotgun, my (late) best friend took some classes ran by a former British SF guy that relocated to Texas. Using a smooth bore, non-rifled, non- Vang Comp barrel, the only add on was ghost ring sights, at 100 yards he was making hits in the CVT, and at 200 yards he was still hitting the silhouette- it may have been in the forearm, clipping the shoulder or in the gut, but it was possible with his best patterning slugs. That’s not bad at all. That’s actually really good.
The drawback is onboard capacity. The Blackhawk! SAW Pouch is a good pouch for the shotgunner, it holds about 50, and the elastic lid keeps the shells in there while allowing you to jam your hand in there to grab one and top off or do “load one, shoot one”.
* Edit- it was a 20” barrel Remington 870, also.
Be well.
You don't have to penetrate armor to make someone "combat ineffective". All that energy gets transferred into that target wearing armor. Your buddy with a rifle can finish them off as they roll on the ground in pain
A 12g slug to the plate and they'd wish they weren't wearing it. It's even better if you got 3" slugs. Internal bleeding, broken ribs, and the fact that all air in the body is now on the ground.
Trap shooting might be a good skill to have in modern warfare. Drones.
That's a good point about rifleman not necessarily needing a handgun and a shotgunner definitely needing one with extra mags
buckshot not defeating body armor is ruled out cuz their hands and forearms are infront of their chest because they’re holding their rifle in front of them. getting 00 buck to the hands and forearms is gonna take you out of the fight but won’t kill you
9rnds roughly the same size as a 9mm bullet flying down range with one trigger pull… can’t go wrong with that. 👍🏻
I have a wild theory, so buckle up.
~$.20 per buckshot shell. 50-60 rounds you can keep on the body.
The formula?
2" shells through a mossberg 590s.
Buy 2 3/4" primed shell hulls (avoiding the need for reloading tools), cut/sand them down 3/4", put in your powder/wad/buckshot/overshot card, then roll crimp using a $50 roll crimp tool that you can use in a hand drill.
The result: carry about 50% more ammo from shorter shells. This ammo is cheap, and easy to make, only requiring components and a fancy drill "bit". This ammo (going off of federal 1 3/4" shells) will have similar results to full size buckshot shotshells.
Yes, it requires a little work on your part. Just sounds fun, that's all. Curious to hear your thoughts.
These guys are the fucking Step Larpers , this is a fucking great callab
This is also where the pdw shines, shotguns/bolt rifles should be accompanied by a light pdw loadout in situations that may get hairy. When you run out of ammo or if your buddy gets killed chances are you'll ditch the shotgun for the enemy's rifle due to weight vs capabilities, and if your buddy gets wounded it's nice to have a firepower solution for the fireman's carry that carries a few extra atk points than your sidearm
The general rule is 1 inch per yard of spread. I find most buskshot will do better than that but need to test your shotgun with your load
Shotgunner specifically for drone defense
There’s always a place for a shotgun for me. It’s my favorite firearm hands down.
Same
My dad was a former senior technical advisor for Beretta back in the day, and an avid skeet shooter; he would have LOVED this video, especially Trench Grenade's 1301 (customized by his former coworker, no less).
A 5.7 pairs well for a shotgunner potentially adding range to your sidearm imo. Chrisky made a point about range with your pistol/ red dot and so why not a longer range flatter tragectory pistol cartridge?
I think seeing the trench warfare revival has made my benelli m4 develop a crooked smile 🪖♿♿♿
In regards to the plus-up on 12ga, I recommend instructing the logistics guys or whoever is handling ammo to hold onto mre bags or similar and loading shells in them to tape up and mark with shell count. great way to setup an ammo packet with half or full combat load that can be distributed easily and dropped in a dump pouch, sustainment pouch, or pack until needed. When setting up field camp, there should never be too much idle down time (nothing to do? get some sleep with a buddy nearby to keep alert) and this is something that can be squared away in an hour tops.
I definitely believe they have a place, but as a designated role, not everyone having it or it being a one man show. And I completely agree, rifle a sidearm isn't a must. But as a shotgunner it's essential
Oddly enough, the doughboys HATED the trench shotgun. Not because of the weapon, but because the then cardboard shells would swell up with moisture in the trenches and jam up the magazine tube. That being said, your points are still very much valid because those shotguns did absolute WORK in thick jungle and heavy city fighting in the Pacific during WWII once they had moved to a brass shotshell. Think Guadalcanal and the Battle for Manila. Cool video guys!
I run a vepr-12, it eats everything I throw at it and magazines are just so much faster to get in than individual shells.
As a Floridian living with no ac in my car or house currently, I can verify the sun bakes your brain. Good job guys!
Obligatory wife comment
Based.
Who smells worse, Trench or Risky?
Amazing
wife moment
Obligatory EX-WIFE comment 🫣🫣🫣
Have you considered the possibilityof using #4 bucks with roughly 24-27 .22 cal pellets is almost entire ar22 mag in a shell as a more of a “brush cartridge”
It seems like that would be a better choice if the person is wearing armor, you have more chances it hit where the armor isnt
#4 is awesome
The only problem I can see is that each pellet will impart less energy and loose energy faster the smaller you go.
@@voraciousblackstn even to a point 22lr is lethal so I consider this to be more of a directional frag Grenade effective range not lethal range
00 buck is the standard for a reason
All Dogmen were harmed during this filming.
Looks like the shotgun is more of a squad support weapon that could be used to gain fire superiority when used in a fire team or squad.
4:43 Hang on a sec, are you telling me that Halo lied when it said shotgun pellets turn into cotton candy at ten yards?
Excited to see the minuteman in the trees talk to the buckshot bastard
Buckshot bastard is a great alternative RUclips name lol
I love these videos, these are the kind of conversations I have in my head all the time lol.
I've shot deer with a 12 slug 80 yards or so and heard it slap into it, Massive 🕳 on the exit hear people shooting 100+ yards with the Hornady rounds. So good all around gun!
Damn it trench I still don’t see a ten gauge shotty here !! We need some big bore for the teench
What you guys are saying at the end about leaving your base with just a shotgun is exactly why my next purchase will be a rifle. I am competent with my R870. I'm set to hunker down, but if I need to evac, say link back up with my old Navy command which is about a 3 day ruck from where I live, absolutely fuck no do I want to make that trip with a shotgun only.
Unfortunately I live in IL, so my rifle choices are limited (indefinitely). If I have to keep a shotgun as a primarily while living here (and God I hope the end doesn't happen while I am still in IL) then I might build a PDW, just so I have something more substantial than a handgun
Great collaboration! Definitely team up again for more videos!
I've got an old mossberg 500 type of shotgun, a Coast to Coast "Master-Mag" model CC660. It had a 30-inch ribbed barrel that I cut down to 20 inches. I've got No. 4 low-recoil buckshot loads on board, plus five more on the butt cuff shell holder. It's just me living on the ground floor with two 27-year-olds (my daughter and her cousin) upstairs, so I guess I'm the lone sheepdog here.
If you need to extend range, transition to slugs vs going to the handgun.
Not sure why the algorithm chose to play me a commercial about a metal saw during a video about shotguns….I’ve seen that movie…….not today ATF.
lol
Haha
Funny lol
Just like with any platform, it requires practice and becoming really familiar with it. The shotgun in particular requires a bit more time due to the constant manipulation that is required to keep it fed and in the fight.
I enjoying shooting all different platforms, but the shotgun I really enjoy because it demands you stay alert as to your round count in the tube and reloading what you shoot.
In regards if it has a place in a platoon or squad? I would say it depends. If it’s in a MOUT/CQB environment, sure if there are enough rifleman on hand. If not, rifle all the way.
I carried a shotgun when i was an assaulter. I was the breacher so i carried a shorty 870 or a semi 1100. The shorty i had set up with a mesa tactical ar stock that was a folder and pistol grip kit with their aluminum side saddle , this was high tech in 08. Also a pic rail with a red dot and folding stock and surefire fore end. Had a short barrel but the thought in cqb was if my carbine went down i could transition to that quick and id rather have that over a pistol. It was a little more weight but it was another weapon system i had to carry anyways so adding a few things to it so i could use it for something other than breaching was my thought. Lots of dudes talked shit on it but thats how it goes when everyones an alpha. Shotgun is the king of trench warfare. Side note, in ww2 Germany was getting fucked up so bad by shotguns they tried to say they were war crimes and any soldier they captured with a shotgun would be immediately executed.
ww1 germany but yes
Keep up the good work my guys. Great videos
That's a sweet range setup there. It's good to push yourself until you fail by going too fast. When it's go-time, you can slow down to about 85% of your "wheels fall off" speed and still be moving rapidly but not so fast that things fall apart.
When you shoot a man with a 12g you also teach him to fly. IMHO that's what kevlar is for.
AWESOME collaboration! Already a big Crisky fan, and it was a real treat to see you two run and gun. Hope for more in the future!
Keep up the great content, brother!
Honestly just came here to get better at shotguns. Now I feel like im entering a school of life
Fun fact: C&Rsenal tested the shooting a grenade out of the sky idea in their episode on the Remington Model 10 trench shotgun, and found thst not only is it extremely difficult to shoot skeet with buckshot, the effect on target isn't so great either.
Shotgun with PDW like a flux brace pistol is perfect.
Aim for the crotch if they have armor
Classic Clint Smith advice
Aim for the head or the head.
Stomach, sides (under armpit, lots of blood loss if done correctly)
If you're not aiming for the pelvic girdle, you're doing it wrong.
Lots of fragile bones and big vessles.
He's either out of the fight (1L), or out of the fight (1K)
@@allanjarnagin3540 Excellent point☝️
Shotguns on modern combat, are the perfect tool to take down enemy anti pessoal drones! It's time to think about a new operator on the squad, the "anti air man" using a shotgun!
Shotguns are niche but extremely effective at what they do.
Risky: shotgun sucks
Trench: I just think they're neat : )
Another tip I got from 3 gun: load the shotgun on the move. It’s “free time” during a drill or in competition and a great way to keep her fed.
We need to mobilize train a shot gunner squad 🎉
3in Turkey shot with a modified choke do wonders on steel core doors and bad guys at distance
It’s hot out here guys 🥵
There is definitely a need for a shot gunner in our AO!!!
Thick underbrush though out thousands of acres!
🕷️
Lol got here late but the more i drink the more this makes sense
Trench fighting...madness!
Me initial guess, a super shorty strapped on a backpack gives a lot of versatility on a small team (ex you can still breach, and birdshot will probably kill small drones)
WAR CRIME STICK VIBES INTENSIFY
Both of y'all bring the goods & inspire. Valuable channels.
Cheers
I carry both in the woods, including a 1911 and a 22.handgun for more options out there on hand.
I like all weapons new and old. I don’t know what type of situation I could end up in so I try to get with familiar with all types from a wooden Bo staff to an AK. Don’t limit yourself.
Dope collaboration!
Ive heard the average is 1 inch per yard, after the first yard. So the first 3 feet you get zero spread, then past that you get about 1 inch per every 3 feet after. Unless you use something like flight control
My primary SG is a 20ga Stoeger M3020, a Benelli M2 clone. My primary PERIMETER DEFENSE shotgun is a 20ga mag fed RIA VR82 with 10rd mags loaded with #2 buckshot. 5rd mags are loaded with Brenneke slugs.
Imagine the Mozambique drill with a 12ga
I’ve done it
Rattles your teeth some... hell yeah
in a militia type action definitely there is a place for a shotgun maybe two in a over size section
Im big on the shotgun. Because i live in NY state. U could legally train with a sks or mini 14 and a ny compliant AR. All limited to 10 rounds. So in some states. You dont have many options.
So much knowlege. Loving it. Full-sponge mode baby.
u need that gucci langdon m9 to compliment the langdon shotgun
Modern warfare shotgun position: Yes
#1 man on the door breach team
Rear security
Anti-drone capability
Urban combat (lethal/less penetration/less lethal capability where civilians/children are part of the calculus. This is particularly important in western countries where building standards do not provide for bullet resistant walls.
As for shotguns in reference to trench warfare: Mostly No.
The legal precedent from WWI has stood for over 100 years. No more trench shotguns.
In its place we look to WWII trench warfare with the Japanese. Where we substituted shotguns for giving every marine/soldier a machine gun, as many grenades as they could carry, and flamethrower.
Now if the next war is on home soil..all bets are off... 16:54 .expect civilians to quick like and in a hurry break out thier shotguns.
So give the commo kid or rhe medic the shotgun and prepare to run drills in reverse
There was/is no legal precedent from world war 1 or any war regarding shotguns. The Germans complained about shotgun use but that's it. Also worth noting the Germans were using flamethrowers around that same time.
@jeffreydommer7147 The Germans lodged their complaint with the World Court alleging that our use of shotguns violated the Geneva Convention's law of war. The complaint was considered well founded. We responded that Germany precipitated the practice when they initiated tactics to release chlorine gas on Allied soldiers. Fortunately for the U.S. we won the war, and the matter was swept under the rug. The result was a self enforced change in shotgun policy for the next 100 years.
On second look I believe you are correct. Since there was no ruling, then there was no legal precedent. Only the precedent of US policy.
Lol.
"Legal"
Cool run would be Big Will films, Chrisky and Trench run the trench at the same time. This is very much depending on how many people are on your team but I am thinking the team should be comprised of: Designated marksman, drone man, Shotgun, Medic, heavy weapon and rest are rifle. Of course drone and marksman can be the same person mix and match roles.
I feel like a really good use for a shotgunner is as part of a firebase from a close-in ambush. A couple shotgunners blaster 00 buck into the fray could do alot of damage. Also, to the point of carrying a pistol - would using an ultra compact smg/pcc such as an UZI pro, TP9, or even a stocked pistol/pistol in chasis work better? If slung or carried in a way thats readily accessible it would give you a lot more range/firepower
Bro if somebody’s getting upset over the things that you guys talk about this probably isn’t the channel for them hell this probably isn’t the community for them I like the discussions and rant like here in someone else’s perspective on things
Shotguns are a Giga Chad weapon
Shotgun (870 or 590) paired with a Glock 17L.
Imagine a world where rifles never existed and wars being fought with strictly shotguns. Jesus.
💪
That world is called the U.K.
(hold for applause)
Until another comically large tüüb comes along, 12 gauge buck and slugs have cemented their places in my arsenal.
This was really good.
Great runs guys, good talk!
Doggystyle that algorithm!!!
🐕
@@AnimalDogtor 🤣🍻
Shotguns & rifles both are tools . I like both. I have more experience with the mighty 12ga .
Wish I had a range like that. Looks fun. I’m in VT.
💪
Some of the best informative duo videos, add medical videos from REFUGE MEDICAL and you have the trifecta of solid information applicable to the modern-day minute man
Thanks
I'd love to see these guys and bear
In my opinion, the speed and accuracy of a red dot make this an unfair test. Put a red dot on the 1301 and watch it zoom.
I run a P2 on my 1301 and you can burn it down with that thing
based luv me some shotgun content
Chucking nades for days!
AWSOME content guys!
🕷️
I’m subscribed to both of your guys channels and love the content. It’s more realistic then what’s the highest riser or the best lvpo.
awesome
Risky is talking out of the side of his ass.
Shotgun All Day... and Train. Train. Train.
Use Slugs for distance and Buckshot for close range and have a real good Sidearm... Combat Knife/ Combat Tomahawk.
100 % agree.
Good talk gents
Thanks
This content slaps! Per usual!!!!
Loving the video! Love the honesty in it, you’re not afraid to show misses. I guess you did have a semi auto. It’s heresy but having a red dot on a shotgun makes aiming even more faster and accurate, and is intuitive if you have a dot on your handgun or rifle.
Sorry bro. Can’t join the discord deal.
I run a VPN and won’t be turning my internet security off to join a chat group that could be discussing spicy subjects and probably has at least a couple glowies lurking.
Seems a little odd that the prerequisites for joining a group is to drop security protocols. 🧐
I can’t even get the discord to work. Doesn’t show a damn thing.
Discord is 100% a honeypot site.
@@tubeguy4066 yea, the weird part is this is the first and only group I’ve been invited to that required this type of “verification”.
Peculiar seems the right word to describe it.
You think he's a fed? This the first video I've seen of his
@@Swishersweetcigarilo idk… I will say it’s bizarre to ask for someone to eliminate all internet security so you can be tracked though… doesn’t exactly scream “freedom” so I’m steering clear personally.
I really want to see more people testing the gen12
I live a simple life I see trench video I leave a like
It ain’t much but it’s honest work
Dude you can't train enough with the shotgun, it a struggle. Oh snap they are drinking Yuengling could these be my people?
Most definitely🙌🏼
Eh ever rock 4 Shockwaves on sling like ya Black bread the pirate!
Was thinking as a people we should stay silent about anti drone things while watching these videos of russians scrambling in front of drone blades before a sudden cut to static screen 😂 until we see them figure it out on they own
I feel I need a sidearm because I live in a commi state and rather quick transition in some situations
A lot of people don't relive the range shotguns actually have especially when you use slugs, Iraqveteran8888 has a video that truly shows the range of shotguns. Speaking of slugs and even buckshot at certain ranges it doesn't matter if they have level 4 armor its going to kill them or put them down even tho it didn't go threw there armor. Imo shotguns are the most versatile weapons.