Don't adjust your heating flow temperature until you have watched this video. How to save gas
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 31 авг 2022
- Derek in this video informs the general public how adjusting their boiler flow temperature COULD save them gas and money.
Наука
![Kehlani - Next 2 U [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MpI7ekFG8A0/mqdefault.jpg)
ruclips.net/video/f9VW3jSMr4g/видео.html
If you need anymore energy saving tips check out this video
I raised this matter with the Guild of Master Chimney Sweeps about 10 days ago with a view to our members putting out info to warn people about the possibility of Legionaires if they turn their boiler flow temperature too low. Hopefully the Guild members will help get the word out to the public (bearing in mind we see a lot of people this time of year) and avoid a spike in Legionaires cases on an already overloaded NHS. Thanks for posting this - only just seen it and I think you were ahead of me on this.
Hello, great video. Can you do the same for an under floor system ?
Many opinions on these Flow temperatures but in my opinion
High flow temperature ensures cylinder & room stats reach there target temperatures quicker & shut the boiler down completely.
That’s the way to save money.
@@darthfader7414 that’s not correct it won’t save you money
@@tomkatgastraining Recovering a 100 litre cylinder from cold with a flow temperature of 70-75C & a cylinder stat temperature of 55C takes 30 minutes. If you drop flow temperature to 60 C that same cylinder of water takes over an hour to recover. What’s more energy efficient?
How refreshing to hear a person talking sense and knows what they are talking about with the bonus of explains simply to to the likes of me that have no idea. Thanks mate, your a diamond.
At the moment ive been seeing lots of video's on social media where people are telling other people they can save money by turning their internet router off when they go out.
DON'T do this on a regular basis as the dlm (dynamic line management) sees this as a connection fault and WILL slow your connection speed down to protect the network!
You would then need to contact your isp to have your dlm reset or wait ages and hope it turns itself back up again.
55 degree flow does NOT apply to replacement boilers. It applies only to FULL replacement central heating systems ie; new boiler, rads and pipework. Part L is not stupid enough to suggest anyone needing a replacement boiler needs to set their primary flow temp to a level too low for the design temp of the system.
Intelligent weather compensation with internal reference should be mandatory, then the boiler will do all the hard work for everyone and run as cool as possible as often as possible. Alas, that doesn't suit Ideal and Worster does it.
Turning the flow temp down to 55 or even lower is perfectly feasible without having to replace radiators. Simple trial and error to find what is comfortable versus saving money is all that is required. I have done it - only one radiator out of two on in a 17 ft lounge and boiler temp turned down to 50deg C. Although this will probably have to go up as the Winter gets colder. But savings now can be spent in the colder months.
Eh ? My Ideal Logic has intelligent weather compensation. Its built into the PCB and automatically detects when the outside sensor is fitted. The kit costs much less than a Worcester kit, so you stand a chance of making savings a lot quicker.
I’m from the USA just found your channel very interesting the UK has always been a head of the United States in higher efficiency equipment. Thank you for your videos very educational
Electricity is much cheaper in the USA too which perhaps is the reason why you guys haven't gone as far in efficiency.
It's shocking that you guys use 2-3 times more energy on average. Part of that is AC, sure but a lot of it isn't
Great video!
Down to earth help with just enough science content.
Also, I totally agree with you around 16-00 minutes: “Heat or Eat” should not be a decision ANYONE in Great Britain should have to make in the 21st century!
Thank you for your efforts…
🙏 👍👏
Welcome to Agenda 2030 / Great Reset in the planning since at least 2010, then they decided 2019 was the time to begin and Covid was their trigger psyop event, with their mock rehearsal meeting Event 201 in late 2019, where a "possible" virus scenario was played out. Add to this the fact that the global financial system died in 2008, and money not backed by gold / silver was printed like mad to avoid hyper inflation. Now in 2022 and printing money is no longer going to work, and so cue possible 1920s style Depression starting in 2023. Then we look again at the Deagel military population forecasts for the UK and the world from a few years ago (taken down in 2020)........ Challenging times for humanity!
Battle tanks are called tanks because when Britain first made them during WWI they were labelled as water tanks for security during transport on the railways.
The full story they were looking for a none describing name. All houses had a galvanised tank in their lofts that were riveted. One of the people said they look like my water tank and so the name was born…
@@Cookie69697 that's v interesting, thank you.
yes, that makes sense. i didn't know, and had never wondered why called that.
Thank you so much for this - my house just wouldn't get warm and I found my boiler was set to 45° for the radiators. I've just put it up to 55° and I can feel my radiators warming up already! Thanks again!
Great info *BUT* you absolutely should not turn your router off, unless you want to knacker your connection speed. If you do, the system registers frequent disconnections and thinks there’s a fault and reduces your connection speed in hope to stabilise it. It’s designed to be always on.
Yeah this is true, I used to work for an ISP, this is especially the case if you don't have fibre and are on ADSL, but will still potentially cause you issues with fibre as well
i have actually seen this stated by some ISP, Sky i think. IMHO that is a flaw with their procedures/equipment that they should be rectifying so people can turn the router of when not being used ( just off the top of my head: with an 'off' button It could simply send a 'power off' signal when its deliberately turned off telling the system to ignore the 'disconnected' status). Whether they will or not i dont know but as things stand currently they do say you need to leave it on.
@@ravenmasters2467 problem is, the systems that detect connectivity across all the exchanges in the entire country would need changing to be able to receive and recognise that command. Each one needs to know at what strength and frequency to send the signal down the line, in order for it to be stable, too week and its a brittle connection that drops, too strong and its distorted like a speaker turned up too loud for it to handle. If the router is off for a long time, the systems then out it into a period of instability when it's next on, where it tries to vary the strength and modulation to get the best possible connection. This period of instability will see very unpredictable connection, but its necessary in order to find the best. The best option is to find routers which have the lowest running power, and turn the WiFi off when not needed. The WiFi broadcasting is what uses the most of the power from a router, especially if its dual band
@@ravenmasters2467 unfortunately that isn’t the way the technology works. Its designed to give users the most stable always on connection. The majority of devices rely on connectivity, from security systems, databases to regular consumer devices. The power drain from leaving a router turned on his negligible, it’s not even worth considering.
@@RecuringWolfe thanks to you both, Karl and Mike King, for your prompt and detailed replies. I would argue that with current prices all the 'neglible' amounts of electric add up over a year and that at some point in the future ISP's _should_ design the system so it can be turned on and off.
But Mike you gave me an idea... my PC is a wired connection but there are 2 that are running on Wi-FI that dont need to be. They were on wired and those wires are still there, just not plugged in. I'm not sure how to turn the WI-FI off but i am going to look into it because we dont need it on.
Thanks again you guys.
Thank you so much for explaining this in plain, simple, easy to understand language. You’re a great teacher! Many thanks again🙂
A very useful explanation of boilers and flow temperatures, much appreciated.
Excellent video....been doing all of the above for years ....so with near enough word for word I haven't been talking nonsense to customers 👍
On the government issue......they have no clue whatsoever.....the only solution is to bring it all in house .... whatever we produce stays in the UK and sold to the UK not on the international rip off market .
This was not the video I was looking for but watched the whole thing. Very interesting and informative. Thanks 👍
Excellent video Derek , I can't think of anything else that you didn't mention . This is the video that should be pushed to show the public how to reduce their bills .
Exactly, I would add one small thing is to have reflector foil behind your radiator too.
30 years doing this for a living and yet the phrase Delta T is as foreign to me as blokes calling each other Bro all the time (something you couldn’t pay me to do). Delta T must be something that came in the week I was on holiday……whenever that was 😂 I feel like an analogue man in a digital age and yet I seem to be one of the few who actually knows what time it is ! 😛
Just the Difference between flow and return
D = Difference
@@dinendale666 So it’s Delta D not Delta T ?
Delta is the Greek or whatever letter shaped like a triangle that means 'change in' so delta T is just 'change in temperature'. It's just short hand so you don't have to write it out every time. You just put ∆T instead.
@@matthewwakeham2206 that’s correct. Delta is the 4th letter in the Greek alphabet which is the same as D in the English alphabet. Guess the engineers thought, yep Difference, D why not use Greek and make us sound smart.
Well done Derek, clear, logical and comprehensive explanation. I’m not a plumber so this has helped me a lot as I’m in the process of updating my boiler and heating system.
Hurrah, at last somebody pointing out you can't just reduce flow temp without potential consequences of having a much colder house contrary to all the stuff in social media. I have seen radiators in some new builds that aren't large enough to heat the rooms properly with a flow temp of 80c let alone 55C on cold days. Ours was built in 1996 and we really need 75 C flow temp on a very cold day.
Thanks. Very useful information and advice for a homeowner.
My gas engineer services the combi boiler every year and leaves it set up properly, but I'll be able to talk to him with a bit more knowledge next time.
I am a retired Engineer but not in this field.
Put your thermostat in the room you spend most time in, NOT the hall. Keep curtains off the top of radiators, which are better placed on inside walls/not under windows. Get an intelligent stat that can vary the preheat period according to how cold the room is and chrono proportional to maintain a true steady temperature. Use programmable radiator valves that can turn on and off at different times and temperatures. Let the sun in to heat your rooms as much as possible. Beyond that, god help us all with these mad energy prices!
Most of my radiators are on outside walls courtesy of my local council. My flat is freezing in winter even with the heating on.
@@samanthahardy9903 have you contacted them regardìng the problem? Moving the radiators would be a big job and may not make a lot of difference if the flat is poorly insulated. Make sure any curtains are not over or above the rads. Put them up on the window sill if possible. May look messy but it will make a big difference
Only thing I’d say is the reason for the window placement is the air coming in from its coldest point, given the quality of most window installs I’d say it still applies , the thermostat should be at the mixing point between the upstairs and downstairs in my experience , wall construction is a mayor factor to take in to account turning one room off can exacerbate the temperature in other rooms , consider for air changes and leakage
How come your advice on thermostat and radiator location is the exact opposite of convention? What qualifies you to know better than everyone else?
@@bikeman123 radiators used to be placed under windows in the days of single glazing and draughty wooden frames, to counteract the icy blast. Think about it. Most windows have curtains. Most curtains will be above the radiators. Half or more of the hot air will go behind the curtains and therefore more heat lost through the glass. Also the outside wall will get warmer and lose more heat to the outside. Put a radiator on an inside wall, sure the wall will get warm but that warm wall will not lose that heat. All the convected heat will go straight into the room. Also you can have longer curtains over the windows and wall, saving a little more heat. As to tbe stat in the living room, thats where you spend most of your time. I don't profess to know better than anyone but it works for us and there's good logic. All my rads have iTemp programmable valves and that helps too. No one has to take my suggestions on board but I'm just trying to help folk save money in these awful times
Many thanks for your just sufficiently detailed explanation of the ins and outs of this particular cat's backside. You guys certainly earn your money!
Well done. Very informative. As an energy saving Professional I so frequently see the important/critical bits if information left out. You covered them well here.
You need a system with two flow temps .
Very interesting and very useful advice. I recently had a new Combi Boiler fitted and ended up using this advice. To monitor the boiler being off and on I ended up taking 2 hour videos of it and checking the switching on / off intervals. ;-/ I can be a bit of a 'nerd'. :) Your advice really is helpful. :) Thanks.
Nice video 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
People who can’t afford double glazing can always use secondary glazing …it’s cheap and will save plenty of extra cash through keeping the extra heat in the home.
Great video with relatively easy to understand explanations- one missed tip that is relatively inexpensive but very effective is heavy curtains on windows ( double glazed or not) and draughty doors
Relatively easy explanations? I am a technical person and I know that a lot of this would go over most peoples heads. A lot of people I know don’t really understand how their simple central heating controller works!
Fully agree, back to the good old days when we only had open fires.
@David Wanklyn Hi my comment was a tongue in cheek remark.
@@davidwanklyn8842 didn't that cause a massive death problem one day.
Thank God! A voice of reason! Loved the clear and simple presentation cutting through the nonsense. Especially important that people listen to the safety advice!
Totally agree.
Many thanks again Derek really appreciate your very informative videos. Awesome!
I like this video. It's well explained and covers all the points I make to my clients. So many installers leave flow temperatures too high and don't explain the controls to the end users.
You could have mentioned underfloor heating which is one of the best ways of warming a room although most installers don't understand that the extra pump and thermostatic blender to reduce the water temperature is completely unnecessary with a condensing boiler which should (as you clearly explained) be set at a low flow temperature.
Thanks for making the video and spreading good practice.
John
Thanks buddy.
We all need seriously thought through help to manage our energy consumption. Your video had been a great help and incentive.
Thanks again.
Paul in the Mids
Excellent videos as expected from a Man U supporter. I watched the previous video when you compared a 24 with a 30kw boiier and found the idea of hiding the secret weapon in the red petty cash box very funny. Well done for knowledge AND entertainment
Thank you. Very informative. My thermostat has been at 15degrees since February but my house is well insulated and never really drops below 18degrees. It has the additional benefit of staying cool during hot weather. I have not had any issue with damp as I do not do anything to create humidity.
Internet has warned against switching off routers because of security issues.
Freezers work more efficiently if they have more in them so I would recommend putting cold packs in with the food if you only have a small amount in there or alternatively stock it up with frozen veg with is cheaper than fresh but just as good for you!
What the security issues? Frozen veg are "cheaper" because you're paying for extra water (ice) as well. They're very convenient though.
@@globalist1990 The internet companies have warned about switching off routers because they send updates to them which ensure they run smoothly and can counter attack malware.
@@globalist1990 I agree there is additional water from the freezing process but they are frozen at optimum freshness and have been prepared ready to use in whatever quantity you choose so there is less waste.
They just want access to your house 24/7. Mines off at night. If it needs updated, it will do so in the morning when turned on
A pretty comprehensive review.. Perhaps a warning and explanation about internal condensation forming from people totally sealing up their houses without allowing for any ventilation (to save money on energy bills) would have been a very useful tip to add; seeing as people try to seal off every possible opening to stop heat escaping which in turn doesn't allow moisture to escape or fresh air in! The best tips for saving energy not usually mentioned are :
1. Only fill your kettle (2Kw) with what you are using, i.e. one cupful on a flat bottom kettle.
2. Gas hob cooking, either use a smaller gas ring or a wider pan so the gas never flames up the sides of the pan. The hottest part of the burning gas is just above the visible flame so why have it wasted up the side!
3. Always use a pan lid.
4. With Electric hob cooking, turn off the ring about 5 minutes before the food is ready and the residual heat will continue to cook the food.
5. With oven cooking, perhaps cook more than one meal at a time for things that could be reheated in a microwave.
6. Wear jumpers inside and gradually reduce the ambient house temperature a degree a day to acclimatise.
7. Your house takes a while to warm up so on work days have the heating timed to come on an hour and a half to two hours before you get up and turn of as you get up. Again the residual heat will keep the house warm enough until you leave.
8. In the day keep the blinds/curtains up/open on any sunny windows and closed on ones that don't get the sun whilst you're at work and don't need the daylight in the non sunny rooms. This solar energy will help warm the house.
9. If you have solar panels that feed back electricity to the grid during the day whilst you're at work have a 1or 2kw fan heater on in the hallway via a plug in timer for the good daylight hours to keep the ambient house temperature up for free!.
10. Use a high TOG quilt on your bed, a 15 TOG in the winter.
11. Turn down (not off) radiators in unused/little used rooms and keep the doors to them shut. Only heat the main used room to a warmer temperature.
12 Have thermostatic radiator valves fitted on all radiators except the bathroom one which should remain open valved at all times to allow a return flow path for the boiler water circulation in case all the thermostatic valves are closed simultaneously.
Number 10 is definitely something I won't do
I have 5 tog all year around, with a fan on. In the winter, just turn the fan off
7. Way too long, if your house isn't nearly up to temp after 30mins your system needs a look at. Bleed rads, flush the system of gunk before winter sets in.
@@waqasahmed939 not quite as bad, but i tend to go to 9.0 for winter and have a throw or 4.5 to chuck on on colder nights.
@@marksemple297 In small terraced houses maybe! My system is quite large and it takes 40 mins just to get the rads all up to temperature! My actual point was that most people leave the heating on until they leave for work which means the house is at its hottest just as people leave it empty and go to work! Program the heating to come on and off earlier to benefit most.
Number 9 - yes! It's many times better value to use the electricity you've generated than to get a pittance back from the energy company!
Thanks for this information, I hadn't realised that condensing boilers have lower flow temperature and have been trying to work out why my house isn't as warm since I had a new boiler fitted.
Thank you Sir, very useful and informative and delivered in a clear and concise manner.
Surely the easiest way to determine in your rads are big enough to cope with the set flow temp and if your condensing boiler is operating in it's condensing mode is to simply measure the return temp. On a side note. There's lots of mentions of building regs but it seems that there are a lot of people ignoring them. I've seen many newly completed buildings with poor insulation, very small rads on microbore, no room stats, no thermostatic valves on baths, dodgy electrics. Building inspectors need to start checking these things.
Yup and if you have cast iron or other types of radiators. Cast iron rads on a condensing boiler is the best combo
Agreed but cuts to council funding has put paid to them
T
@David Wanklyn MAY??? I'm cutting down on food, so I can afford to have underfloor heating installed. ;-)
@@Mike-H_UK You must eat a lot, otherwise its gonna take YEARS! 😅
excellent video, you've completely changed how I see my central heating system. Thank you.
Good man I spend all my time asking customers on the phone if they mean a tank (roofspace) or a cylinder. 90% of people call the cylinder a tank.
Great video Derek. Proper advice, from a professional who knows.
Important people don’t turn off their Wi-Fi routers.. getting loads of fallout to people doing this now.. theirs a system called dynamic line management, if it can’t see the router on the other end it will slow down your internet speeds to try and “Stabilise” the line and get a connection back. The system isn’t set up for routers to be switched off.
Correct - when i had the BT broadband i asked the engineer about switching off the router overnight and he said exactly that !
Totally correct.. Do not turn off. I was part of Openreach Broadband repair specialist national team and u must leave them powered up.
Brilliant video. Great explanation and lots of points that I hadn't thought of before but need to consider first. Thanks 👍
I'm running a 12 year old Ideal Logic Combi 30 and despite it's age, it's Opentherm compatible with the addition of a £30 harness, which is fitted to later models from the factory.
It works really well with Evohome and unlike many boilers, it allows control of the maximum flow control, which I have set to 60c and was more than sufficient for even the recent cold snap.
The beauty of Opentherm is it lowers the flow temperature as it approaches the setpoint and then has the boiler just tick over with perfect control of the setpoint, which makes the house very comfortable with its ability to maintain a constant temperature.
When the system starts from cold, it will immediately raise the flow temperature to the set maximum (60c in my case) to bring the room/rooms up to the setpoint as quickly as possible but will then drop the flow temperature as soon as it can. It's like having someone sat in front of the boiler, constantly tweaking the flow control.
We have a mixture of old and new radiators, so I would imagine Opentherm combined with a modern boiler with a better modulation ratio and new, smart controlled radiators, would be especially effective/efficient.
I think it's worth adding that if your radiators aren't big enough to allow the return flow to be as low as 55 C while keeping you warm, then you can at least turn it down when the weather isn't quite so cold. In my last house, where this was the case, I would adjust the temperature a bit every week if necessary, and it was probably only over 55 for a month or so in the coldest part of the winter. Even better, fit a weather compensator, which does this automatically.
A weather compensator? Never heard of that before? What does it do and what is it?
@@David.L291 I'm not an expert in any of this but, as far as I know, at its most basic it's an outdoor sensor connected to the boiler that adjusts the burner (and hence the flow temperature) according to the outside temperature. In other words, when the weather is milder it reduces the flow temperature automatically, improving efficiency. Presumably the boiler has to be compatible with it, but I think modern boilers are. I don't know if they can necessarily be retrofitted to older models though. I remember it was an option I was offered when I replaced the boiler at my last house.
You can get fans to assist radiator convection
Hi I have a Condensing boiler fitted to a much older radiator system. The heating setting was set to an output temp of 75deg , I measured the return Temperature at about 55deg . I reduced the output to 60 deg ( return about 42deg) this did not heat the house enough the way we use the heating normally ( 2hours in morning and 4 hours at night). Have settled at an output temp of 65 deg in winter and reduce to 60 deg in milder weather.
Derek, you are great at this stuff.
All I would add is that most people would not understand this. Fine talking to students about this, but most homeowners would not have a clue. Fortunately I do have a bit of knowledge and thanks for enhancing it.
Also heavy duty curtains can certainly help, even with DG.
My hot water is set to 42*C on the combi. This allows for a shower without using cold water.
I wanted to point out however, that it's a false economy in such a case. The reason is, when you shift the mixer tap towards the cold, 2 things happen to the boiler, first it's cold water feed pressure drops, which it senses, might not have to act on it, but it might have to back off on the burner output to compensate for reduced INPUT flow. The second thing that happens if you apply back pressure by closing the hot valve slightly. This reduces the OUTPUT flow through the boiler. Reducing the flow, reduces demand, reduces burner rates. It is very likely, if your combi is over-sized, it will be no where near 100% burner output and adjusting the heat at the tap (mechanical mixer) will have 'virtually' the same net effect on "energy consumed".... however that would be 'at the tap' consumption. Pumping 65*C water to the tap, and cooling it down there, is much less efficient that pumping 42*C to the tap. The difference is in the heat lost in the boiler and the pipes.
The dishwasher is cold fill and does the "hygiene" temps. If I want to wash the floor or clean the oven I have a kettle.... or I can turn the boiler up to 65*C.
** Caveat. This all becomes far more complex if you have more than ONE demand at a time, such as in busy family homes with 2 bathrooms in the mornings.
i also have the hot water set to 42C in the family home. Very very rarely do i need to turn up it for any reason. Water at the tap is very rarely needed to be above a comfortable 'hand-hot' temp as its almost always for showering, hand/face washing. Like you i also thought delivering scalding hot water then cooling it down was ineffecient. No science to back it up, but it just seemed common-sense to me.
Range rate where possible too, got my 28kw vaillant down at 12kw for 10 rads, 55deg flow set it to come on earlier than before but heats house no problem.
I removed the outside condsate pipe so it won't freeze in the winter , it's now going to the sink waste pipe I am in a 2nd floor flat..my combi boiler is a main eco 30 from 2012 , I bought the flat back in Dec last year, had all my rads flushed, new honeywell thermostatic valves, fitted and my plumber balanced all my radiators, and finally had hive 2 fitted all done ready for this winter 2 years left cheap fix for gas and electricity from last October 5p khw gas 22p khw Electricity till October 2024 ..my average bill so for from Jan to September average £51.18 svr would be £124 this October with out the fix ..very scary people without a fix....thx to Derek I have chose to have all the work done to maximise energy savings
Amazing tips, concise analysis and easily understandable logical analysis, cheers ;)
I had a new WB system 30i last year and ran it at the ECO setting. This seemed very economical as compared to my old CF80K BTU. But I set the hot water cylinder to 70C.
So the 55C is lower than the ECO setting on the boiler. The system is old 44 years but most radiators have been altered over the years mainly reducing the size as I have introduced insulation which was not evident in my 1977 house. Luckily, I installed multi fuel stove 20 years ago and I bought 4 tons of smokeless last year when it was cheap.
Unless you have a huge pad, those boilers can be easily range rated. Worth looking into to save a few bucks.
Set at 70c that's not a hot water cylinder, it's a giant tea urn....just what every plumber needs 👍🤣
Great content, advice on insulating pipework etc. always a first step.
Storage cylinders are where big savings can be made, only heat the water you need immediately before use.
As for implementing the 55c rule, only ever going to happen on new build, a case of the powers that be meddling with things they don't fully understand in order to achieve goals that should have been set at least a generation ago.
Yep. We should have been working towards this for ages.
Growing up in a family that was always broke, I grew up very aware of things that have seemed to pass most people by until now.
Why is 55°c flow only suitable for new build? All of the systems I install are designed for around 35-45°c flow. Even in houses that are 400 years old. People living in the past thinking we need high temperature heating systems are the biggest problem in our industry. Also your point on instant hot water, stored hot water can be heated up in the evenings/off peak at much lower rates and remove the need for a massively oversized boiler. 40kw combi can usually be swapped out for a 8-12kw system boiler if using stored hot water. This results in much better modulation and efficiency of the system
@@adamkenyon6146 My comments on 55c boiler temperature were my expectation of the "average" installer response. I'm and always have been an advocate of controls , temperature being a part of the equation. Hot water priority controls on storage systems is useful as is a lower store temperature notwithstanding legonella.
Large energy savings can be achieved by heating the store, taking into consideration volume to be used and temperature, immediately before use.
18kw system boiler would be my choice with unvented cyl. with most heating systems and hot water priority controls or 4 pipe boiler.
Today's off peak tariffs are way more complex than the old Economy tariffs, but could be useful for very large demands.
Assuming 35-45C heating systems aren't radiator systems.
@@adamkenyon6146 because old houses are not built well and insulated well. my house has 2 brick thick walls ,no cavity. can not have double glazing. 55 deg will not keep my house warm.
thank you so much for a clear and massively helpful video. I'm totally subscribed. I'm also sending the link to my kids.
thanks again.
I have got to say about 'tanks' and how they got their name, which kind of changes what you say at the beginning. During the first world war they would transport armoured vehicles across the channel via boat. These were kept inside of wooden crates to disguise them from being a weapon. On this wooden crate they would write 'Water Tank' to try and not raise suspicion. That is how a 'tank' got its name (or so the story goes).
yeah, that 650degC water temp is a killer
Lol!
Thanks. I’ve managed to change mine from 75 to 65 with no difference in heat so far
Well presented thank you. I was just about to, as you said, “rock up” and turn it down. Now, I’ll wait for my boiler service and ask the gas engineer his advice 😊. Totally agree with you about the Victorian era 😡
....assuming the struggle to pay fuel bills is not due to smoking, gambling, drug use and betting habits taking priority!
@@christurner6430 how many people do you know where it is ? stupid comment.
Boss video! I can’t get my head around Delta T. I’ve had external wall insulation, triple glazzing, PV storage. Next step is ASHP!!!!! Currently running the regular boiler at 50c and the house is comfortable however I would like to future ASHP flow temp as low as possible.
Just a slight correction: temperature of water for washing up isn't to kill bugs; you'd need temperatures near boiling for that (and even then it won't kill some of the real double-nasties, like tetanus). The temperature is to make soaps and detergents work better on grease and fat, by melting it. All a soap consists of is a molecule one part of which dissolves in fat and the other end dissolves in water. Chuck soaps onto grease and agitate it and the grease forms micro-spheres in the water, effectively dissolving. This works better if the fat is liquid.
As an aside, the only thing that will properly sterilise things is boiling with water inside a pressure cooker. You need 20 minutes at 120 degrees Celcius to kill all bugs; boiling water only gets up to 100 degrees at atmospheric pressure which isn't enough.
A bit over the top as regards sterilising. We don't all live in pathology labs working on the bubonic plague. Just wash your hands after going to the toilet and pre eating!
Not quite right. It is to do with killing of legionella bacteria which cause legionnaires disease, which starts to die at 50 degree Celcius.
Good advice but don't turn off your modem/rouiter it will slow down your broadband speed .it only uses a small amount of electricity and you can turn any lights on display by going into its admin software.Also empty fridge/freezer of any unwanted /old items and turn it down.
Power cycling our ADSL router occasionally tends to increase the (5 Mbit) speed by 1 Mbit+. It can help streaming >HD.
The neighbours give off heavy interference (affects our MW radios etc) and it compensates by lowering the speed. Dodgy chargers can do it too.
Also rain on the phone line (joints?) or lightning might have upset it. Turning it off lots might make the exchange think there's an issue though.
Fridge should be as full as possible as solids and liquids retain temperature better than air. As long they will remain inside for longer than what it takes it to cool them to 3-8ºC
@@globalist1990 Quite right. It helps to fill any empty spaces with empty tupperware boxes as well so cold air doesn't flow out when you open the door. Storing food - cheese, butter etc - in boxes helps as well.
just had a 40yr old servowarm std boiler replaced with a combi. i think the reason it lasted so long was the gas level was on minimum most of the time so it didn't constantly switch itself on and off but maintained a satisfactory warm house. in the 40yrs the pump was replaced only once (grundfoss). very understandable and informative video.
With you there, we had to replace our 32-year-old baxi back boiler when it was working perfectly, but a wire had been laid behind it and melted through. Up until then, it had a service once in a while, but never actually failed, with only 4 parts in it, only one of them moving, there wasn't a lot that could go wrong. I replaced the pump twice, but at £30 from the nearest Graham, that was no real effort. Overall, NOT replacing the boiler saved hundreds of pounds. It must have used far more gas than the combi, but it didn't need a service every year, with the carbon overhead and money costs of an engineer's visit.
Most boilers made today are not made to last like the old ones. My old boiler was in for 30 yrs. The new one, I don’t think will last 12. It is all part of the throwaway society. I would sooner pay a bit more for something that would last. But jobs unfortunately rely on us replacing things all the time. Just reality I suppose?
Great information and fantastic knowledge, thank you. 👍👍👍
I was quite interested when I listened to the bit about design tempreature for replacement boilers as I think this would be a good move but I don't think you are correct. It would only apply if replacing all of the radiators and pipe work.
5.10 Where a wet heating system is either:
a. newly installed
b. fully replaced in an existing building, including the heating appliance, emitters and associated
pipework
all parts of the system including pipework and emitters should be sized to allow the space heating
system to operate effectively and in a manner that meets the heating needs of the dwelling, at a
maximum flow temperature of 55°C or lower
Ah, good to know. Coulimagine telling clients on a boiler change quote that they need a whole new system.
Yes let’s go and quote. Job
Oo no all your rads are to small and the all pipe work needs ripping out replacing
That’s be 5k please
That’s not happening round my way
You missed the bit that said all new boilers have to be over 92 % efficient when installed in new or existing homes. Try getting that with a flow temperature of 75 oc
@@tomkatgastraining Thanks for the info I went and found that in the document.
I did a bit of further reading and all the documentation I found suggested a condensing boiler at 55 degree flow would only be 87% efficient.
pure.tudelft.nl/ws/files/14884189/1_s2.0_S019689041730016X_main.pdf
I wonder if they more mean that you have to install a condensing boiler with a sufficient ErP rating.
I imagine any modern boiler with weather compensation would claim to hit a seasonal efficiency of 92%
Having the boiler stat so low that the house is too cold is just as big a waste of gas as having it too high. One thing you missed on a combi is either turning the hw preheat off or installing a timer for the preheat function (if possible of course). No point having the boiler preheat at 2am or through the day if no-one is in.
How can having the boiler set low use too much gas? It might run longer but it will use less energy.
@@MrRawMonkey I'm not suggesting it uses too much or more gas, I'm saying what is the point of using not enough gas to remain at least somewhat comfortable? You may as well not use any gas and be cold. If the heat output of the radiators are less than the heat loss through the fabric of the building, then the little heat that is emitted will just be lost without heating the room, I would consider that a waste of gas no matter how little you are using. If you disagree that's fine. I concede however, that if the purpose is to just protect pipework from freezing then fair enough.
@@chlalew I agree with you, I have worked in the HVAC industry for 35 years. Most home radiators were sized based upon 82•C flow temp. If people go about turning down the boiler flow temperature then the room stat will be ‘calling’ for heat longer than necessary because the radiator outputs are drastically reduced, result = boiler running for longer, cycling on/off too much at a lower temp and room temps too low.
Turning down the boiler temp AND the room stat set point may save you some gas but there’s a balancing act between room temps and ‘boiler on’ durations.
Personally I say leave the boiler flow temp as high to match the radiator output for the rooms and to quickly regenerate hot water cylinders (where used) and simply turn-down the main room thermostat and individual radiator TRV’s to lower the room temps especially in rooms not used so much. Turning down the room stat turns off the boiler, no gas used, turning down the boiler flow temp could make the boiler run for much longer; using gas.
@@stevec1097 If the boiler is run more efficiently (more time operating in the condensing mode) then more heat will be produced from that gas and less heat exits the boiler flue. The extra cost of running the circulating pump for longer periods is marginal compared with the heating gas cost.
Better still turn the preheat off.
Brilliant advise as most people get the wrong end of the stick👍🏼
Great advice, well explained. Thank you.
What a long complicated affair this was, I was lost less than halfway through it. It sounds to me that these laws and building regulations will just go out of the window. Most people wont be able to afford to have their house heated to 19 degrees, we usually put ours on 14 - 15 and wear a jumper. I dont care what the regs are, I have turned our flows down because we dont want a big bill
One thing that needs to be taken into consideration is the additional run time of the pump waiting for the system to satisfy, people reducing the flow temperature to their radiators could very well end up with a system running continuously, at £0.52 per kWh for electric you could end up with no savings and actually start paying more to operate the system, pump could easily be pulling 100W. Easy and simple thing for most people to do so they are not guessing if they are doing the right thing is to turn the room stat down and ensure their timer is set correctly for occupancy.
Maybe? I mean, I see it as slowly getting to 70mph on the motorway and keeping it at that for a few miles before needing to drop off.
That's better for fuel economy than getting to 70mph as fast as you can
@@waqasahmed939 not really no. What people are unknowingly trying to do by reducing their flow temperature is mimic outside air temperature compensation on a manual basis. Normally this would be done automatically and the control would be commissioned to the system to ensure correct optimum efficiency. Just turning your boiler down risks the system pump running for hours and never satisfying the stat, hence the additional running costs of anything saved in gas by bringing the boiler into the condensing stage of firing. As stated before the best advice for most people is to turn your stat down, plus turn radiators off in rooms not used and see if you can tolerate the reduced occupancy temperature, this in turn will reduce your heat loss from your house as the delta t is reduced from inside to outside. Although to be honest as a country we shouldn't even be at this stage, I'm now paying less for Kerosene 28 than people are paying for gas, let that sink in..if the electric price had gone up to £0.52/kWh it would have been cheaper to run my diesel generator than buy electric from the grid, I could have also plumbed the cooling water into the house and turned it into a small CHP unit..
yes, reduce flow temp where possible so boiler operates more efficiently but not so much that run-time is greatly increased.
What pumps are you running !!? My circulating pump pulls no more than 10W. Anyway I agree evaluating the cost of any electrical inputs in a system need considering before anyone changes anything.. The only true way people can reduce their energy bills is insulate themselves with clothing or insulate the house. Government should be doing more so people can get hold of discounted insulation not just VAT free if you use specific contractors that just charge you more than the VAT saving.
@@jdickson242 the circulation pump, and most pumps installed currently will not be pulling 10W, most pumps installed will be of an older type pulling around 80-100W, even the new pumps could be pulling 40W depending on the sysyem. But this is the issue, social media video creators are telling people to alter this that and the other, most people don't even know what boiler they have let alone what their pump is using by the way of electrical demand, have no idea what their homes heat loss is for any given temperature, no idea what the rate of gain is at certain circulation temperatures, no idea what the output of their radiators are. I watched a video yesterday where a heating engineer was recommending people leave their heating on permanently to save energy, this video is now being used by the main stream media, I can assure you by the end of winter most people will have higher usage than if they had just turned their thermostat down in nearly all cases, but I guess every heating engineer and his dog wants their 15 minutes of fame.
So many middle class RUclipsr knob heads giving out poor information, great video once again, thanks
😂
At last, some one who knows how a central heating system is supposed to work, thank you👍
I tried it on my combi condensing boiler and the radiators never even went warm so I reset it to 70 and it is working fine now and the house is warm again.
Did you increase the flow to the rads/adjust the lockshields? Bleed out air, flush out any sludge etc?
Brilliant video mate, am enjoying the good effort by yourself and others like Urban plumber, Roger Bisby , heat geek , you're doing a great job between you all raising the standards, improving knowledge base and essentially helping to keep people warm, consider yourselves part of the cabinet to turn the country around. Can I just add, there is no end to excellence and ingenuity, using the acronym RCC (Radiated, Conducted, Convected ) people can get straight to work reducing heat loss, improving the energy efficiency of their homes, staying warm. Question..Where is all the left over perspex from covid? Don't throw it away, with some simple carpentry it could be used to make external double glazing or air source heat collectors, I've already done it, is working well. Anyway, Keep up the good work , and let's see a few more northerners galvanised in keeping warm, sharing knowledge and information and using their ingenuity to prosper, is what sparked the industrial revolution.
Good video and I am glad you are highlighting the poor advice being given to consumers. There is one particular group on you tube offering advice from so called industry experts regarding flow temperatures and it goes to great lengths to deliver a subliminal message to consumers that we are all useless . In this video they mention more than once that most gas engineers have no idea how to commission an installation so it works at optimum efficiency. It would seem then, that we have all wasted time and money attending our local training centres to retake our acs quals and get ourselves up to speed on the latest industry updates and technical advancements. If you watch this video to the end it will lead you to links where they can introduce you to elite installers and not hairy arsed Neanderthals like us. We should all be ashamed that we have failed the general public and Derek should give us our money back. I just hope that consumers will watch a channel like this to see how knowledgeable the videos are and from the comments section how knowledgeable the engineers are.
Interesting you should mention this. I am a consumer and have recently been investigating ways to reduce energy consumption and the message I am getting is "most heating engineers don't know how condensing boilers actually work" and basically set them up like they would an old, non-condensing boiler. I was actually having some work done today and asked my usual heating engineer his opinion. He replied he thought it only really worked properly in efficient, new build houses and that it was pointless attempting to balance a system with a 20 degree difference across the flow and return on an old 1930's house. Also noticed he'd set the boiler flow temp back to 70C. I had dropped it to 60C as an experiment. It is difficult to know who to listen to.
@@pancakesgo7995 As always, in every trade, there are good and bad. As you say it's difficult to know who to listen to. Even Trustpilot doesn't remove companies or individuals who have been found guilty in court of incompetence and negligence.
Air sealing a building or at least stopping draughts is cheap and easy, if a bit time consuming. Ensure each area has some functional method of air exchange, a functional opening window or wall vent. Check how well the the window and door frames seal to the wall material both inside and out. I use Clear TEC7 along with good sticky tape to protect window frames and walls. Then seal up the gaps. Remove the tags for a neat clean edge. Typically heat is on for a few hours a day. In winter all the other hours are time for warm air inside to escape either through the walls and ceilings or through air leakage. An old pillow in a plastic bag pushed up a chimney seals the chimney which can eliminate more air flow. If you get most air leakage fixed look out for condensation. You might need to alter behaviour to open and close vents as required. These things can be part of normal routine. Lots of videos online for those who look. The move from watching to doing. I’d estimate I saved about 10 to 15 % off my energy bills. An infrared spot thermometer £20 to £30 was very useful. Hair line wall cracks can give a delta T of 1/2 deg C……but they operate for 24 hours a day and that is where small cracks add up.
Great video Derek. Very informative.
Another great video, very informative, but why is it that every plumber I have come across when they have either replaced a boiler or serviced it all settings are put at maximum including pump speed and all the radiator valves are wide open?
so that the customer does not call them back because its not hot enough.
Setting the system up to operate economically takes time and few customers will appreciate this.
I think I read somewhere that the boiler should be operating at full load to do the flue gas checks. maybe they just turn everything up for this and then don't bother setting them back to the way they were.
@@johna7075 I think you could be right there, but the last service on the heating boiler (not a combi) it sounded like the water was boiling in the heat exchanger, so I had to get them back to check the settings. It was a different person and they said the gas to the burner had been left fully open.
Turning off your Router can affect the speed of your internet connection; ADSL type Routers need to poll the 'exchange' to tune the speed, also if you have home security etc turning off the Route means you lose access to it while you are away
I think most of the line tuning is done when you first switch on the ADSL router. I know that the providers prefer us to leave equipment on. But they're not really concerned about how much energy the routers use either. I switch mine off when I'm away.
@@johnackers6311 I'd personally keep it on, because any security updates are pushed in the night
You can however disable your WiFi from.
Any networking equipment is designed to be ran 24/7 tbf. I've got a little rack and I have stuff in there ticking along
Yeah, turning that router off really does affect your internet speed ...it reduces it to *ZERO* *0000000000*
That, my friend, was very informative. Bravo!
As a very old approved electrician I found that most instructive.
I don't recommend turning your router off. You can upset the connection to your ISP and really mess up your broadband speeds
It also uses fuck all electric
Dont agree. The bb modem needs to stay on but the router can be turned off. My router turns off every night to stop the kids being online all night. Never had a problem, in fact this works better because everyone gets a fresh ip address everyday.
@@bikeman123 can you explain the advantage to having a fresh ip address every day? Do you mean internal address of devices on your local network, or the ip address of your modem on the wider internet?
Remember when we had just one coal or coke fire in the living room? And if you were lucky a Valor parafin heater on the landing with the bedroom doors open. Single glazing, solid walls, no loft insulation, wooden draughty window frames and doors. How did we manage? Yer know, we were poor but we were 'appy in them days! Put a big coat on!
That were nuthin...we use to live in show box in middle of road ☺️
@@jockster5525 Luxury !.......our shoe box 'ad an 'ole int roof.
@@timhancock6626 😂☺️😂☺️ that were nuthin...we used to live int hole in middle o road 😂
Yeah and winter excess deaths were out of control. The good old days 🥴
@@jockster5525 Naaa then, don't start! But tell that to the young folk today, they'd never believe ya!
Good video, quite technical for a lot ppl but clear. Although focus on newer combo boilers when those with older boilers & water cylinders may be need the advice the most. My boiler (old style) seems to heat the upstairs radiators & not just the bathroom one when we put hot water on. Awful in heatwave & waste of heat through summer. Tried to turn radiators off but can't get them completely off. New to us rented house.
Talk to the landlord/owner about it if i was you.
I had similar issues with a system installed back in 1984. It had valves to separate upstairs from downstairs - different heating schedule for each, but the installer had connected it up wrong. So upstairs rads were on when running hot water. More worryingly, when the 3 position valve had been in a particular position prior to heating being switched off, and then the frost stat had kicked in (to protect boiler in attached garage), the heating came on upstairs. I discovered this when I woke at 3 am with the bedroom sweltering and it sub-zero outside.
This is a long way of saying that it sounds like your installation has something connected up wrong - pipework, or electro-mechanical valves (or both). Ask the landlord to sort it out.
Great video and well explained.
I've had 3 x installed due to renovation and no plumber has ever mentioned having a thermostat is part of the regs nor has any of them mentioned the fact a TRV shouldn't be in the room containing the thermostat.
Not sure what 3x means. 3 boilers in the same home?
@@johnackers6311 missed some words. 3 x boilers for 3 x renovations by 3 x different plumbers.
Common sense. If the trv is set lower than the wall stat your heating will always be on. Your plumbers were cowboys
Many people don't understand that a rad thermostat will be fully open when heating comes on to a cold home. People tend to adjust the valve, usually setting it too high then as room gets too hot turning it right down.
I've never seen the logic of having a thermostat in one room that controls the heat throughout the house. All my rads have TRVs, when a new combi was installed in '20 we had to have a stat, it's been a real pain since then.
We put the thermostat in the living room instead of the unoccupied hallway (and turned down the lockshield very low there).
Then to ensure one bedroom, when sometimes used in the evening (only one undersized radiator) stays heated, we turn down one of the large radiators in the living room.
Unfortunately with that small GCH radiator they need to use a 750W oil filled radiator too sometimes.
We've avoided it, but the newer boiler seems to cope and limit the pump if all rads are off. The old one once made a terrible racket.
Good video Derek, but you can't turn off you router at night or during the day when at work, as your Internet connected smart thermostat won't work to turn on or off the heating.
Thanks for this - I've struggled to find correct and complete information about adjusting flow temperature, too many conflicting bits of advice on various forums- but you've gone through everything clearly so now I'm confident that if I'm comfortable with a lower temperature on the combi central heating control, it's worthwhile doing!
Thanks for a really helpful video. I appreciated the clear explanations!
I set my hot water to 46'c for my bath, perfect to step straight into.
Baffles me why folk fill their bath at 60'c then have to add cold water
The other folks are potentially using their cylinders efficiently. Consider a situation where your tank holds 100 litres of hot water at 46C, and other folks have the same size cylinder but with the temperature set at 60C. When they had cold water to their hot water they will have MORE than 100 litres of hot water at 46C, so storing the temperature at a higher temperature than it is used at is a way increasing the effective size of the cylinder. If they don't need this increase in effective size, they will be wasting money, and hotter water loses heat quicker.
@@tlangdon12 I should’ve explained it better, I was referring to my combi boiler
I think you miss the point? You wouldn't fill the bath with water at 60°C. You put some in and then add cold and adjust quantity. Gas will only be used to hear the part of water to 60°C. With your Combi, you're using had for the full quantity.
I haven't done the calculations but it's probably not that different. Overall the same quantity of water ending up at 46°C will require the same energy to raise water from mains at about 15°C.
Faster to fill, less water being heated.
That's too low. 46 C is ideal temp for growing legionella bacteria. Good luck mate. Your health is at risk.
My house was built in 2014 so I'd have thought it was efficient. But the radiators are bloody tiny. And unless it's literally freezing outside the radiators are never more than Luke warm due to the stupid ambient weather temperature sensor thing controlling the flow temperature. I had to disconnect it to regain manual control of the flow temperature and can finally warm the house up.
There should be a 'slope' setting which matches the outdoor sensor to the system capacity.
Even though I have an oil fired system boiler, I have found your videos very educational. In preparation for the coming heating season, I have ordered some clip on thermometers to measure the flow and return temperature at the boiler, as the oil boiler does not have a digital control panel with built in temperature sensors. I suspect that the radiators in one of the bedrooms, and the dining room are under sized to work at a 55°C flow temperature, but I will 'try and see' before upgrading them, as that is expensive.
Just be aware oil boiler are quite different from gas boilers especially the older oil boilers
@@tomkatgastraining I am thank you. This is a new external wall mounted boiler installed in June. Also replaced the pump, expansion vessel and motorised valves, but existing radiators retained.
I liked this video so much I now name everything in the house based on its shape rather than it’s function. I’m off to put the hemisphere on.
19C room temperature would cost me a lot. Energy savings would be dwarfed by divorce costs...
🤣🤣🤣 this is a fair point!
Tell your partner to put on a jumper and some socks, or maybe get some vigorous exercise! I was having cold showers when it was only 12 degrees earlier this year, invigorating 😂
@@yvonnewiggins4209 after 50+ years, I know better than to suggest any of these…
@@Tensquaremetreworkshop I am sure you know your partner well. I had over 30 very happy years and I would swap central heating for living in an igloo in the Arctic if we could still be together but I get how you feel.
I remember burning furniture to keep a room warm when I was a child. Let's hope things don't get that bad!
Thanks Derek, great advice, I've been educating people at every job and adjusting with their permission in the past few months.
You wouldn't believe the amount of people that run boilers at the max while sat around in shorts and t-shirts.
Or the tumble dryer is running while dry and warm outside.
More money than sense
I can quite believe it - so many people nowadays have little common sense! It's great that you are helping folk understand better.
All good advice on saving money. Meanwhile in recent years we've had £14.5 billion added on our gas and leccy bills: the cost of fitting smart meters (which don't save energy).
Well done! Explained it all very well.
I had no idea this was a thing but I was advised by my energy company to do this . They even told me what generators to set.
Thank you, I have been struggling to explain the details like this it's very helpful
I love it everything in this video. Thank you for sharing this knowledge.
Great video Derek!!
Brilliantly explained! Many thanks. X
Retired surveyor here. Many boilers, both combi and indirect, have manual boiler stat knobs (not digital like the Ariston one shown in your video) with graduations but no temperature markings to show what these graduations mean. This doesn’t help when setting it up correctly.
When working (Housing Associations for 34 years) I was never a fan of combi boilers - good for heating but very unreliable for hot water and cost a fortune to maintain.
Another bit of advice if I may, if you have an indirect cylinder but no bath (only a walk-in shower) make sure you install a power shower that works off your cylinder - like an Aqualisa , NOT an electric shower. If you have an electric shower and a cylinder, then you are heating a whole tank of water for basically a bathroom basin and kitchen sink - very uneconomical.
But very good for airing and drying clothes in the depths of winter without using a power hungry tumble dryer !!!
Excellent video mate but the trouble is you go into someone’s house to change a boiler and tell them they might need all their pipes re run or bigger radiators your likely be told to do one lol sadly many people won’t be able to afford to change all that