I would say these students find out that this career is not something they want to do. It's common for many to switch majors or if they get to graduation, they change career paths.
If I can make it through Chem E, anyone can, I had a rough ride in life; I dropped out of highschool in the 11th grade and got a GED. I eventually got my sht together and went to community college where I met my 2 mentors, both my college algebra & gen chemistry teachers. I guess they saw something in me because they really went out of their way in mentoring me, that same algebra teacher also tutored me in pre-calc, calculus & physics as I progressed. But bottom & line, I stuck with it, kept in contact with my instructors even when I transferred to university. I owe the rest of my life to these 2 men, because I literally had no options, I couldn’t even join the military at that time because they weren’t accepting GED’s. Bottom line, I don’t care how dumb you might think you are, if your back was against the wall like mine was, you’d get through it, no sleep & all, I had nothing else to look forward to, literally. You can do it honestly, but not with sacrifices.
@@Lemurai Sounds like you took advantage of what higher education should be: Where bums that want to elevate themselves. The problem is this path has become very expensive, while not impossible to overcome barriers, the more barriers the more people will decide not to pursue such path. i.e. shortage of teachers where requirements are high, cost of meeting those requirements are high, but the pay is low.
@ScienceNow-That's wishful and resentful thinking, friend. Of course DEI is an absurdity, but you sound like a _mediocrity_ terrified of getting exposed as a fraud. I suspect that you are an angry, little midwit who never leaves his comfort zone (like the guy from Dostoevsky's "Underground man"). Just sayin'
My high school, the best in the state, had no physics class. Boy did that screw me big time. When I got to college, i made a 30 percent on the first physics exam. However, while working at McDonald’s my Senior year, one worker had a brother majoring in Physics at University of Kentucky. I got tutoring lessons from him at 4 times the minimum wage per hour, and recovered and got an A in calculus based physics.
I strongly agree. My nearly 14 yr old son wants to go into civil engineering. I home school him, so I'm able to gear his upcoming high school to prepare him. He'll be skipping 9th grade next year and going right into 10th. His math is prepared for that as he's already taking grade 10 math this year. I'll be adding 8 courses to his high school for personal development and critical thinking (including formal rhetoric for his classical education, as he's already taken two years each of Latin and Logic) to extend his high school to finish at the normal time with the skipped year. And by the time he's done, he'll have gotten his Microsoft Office certificate, cross-enrolled with our local public high school for three years of architectural drafting, studied Python coding this coming summer on RUclips, and taken AP Calculus. That's the plan. He's motivated, so I'm confident he'll do great. Thanks for the encouraging video!
❤ You can be that parent to your kids one day. Make choices now so you can set yourself up for success. I was home schooled growing up. I went on to get a BA with honours. It was a big jump for me and really intimidating, but I worked super hard. I didn't do it for my career per se, but to be a better home school mom. Yes, even as a 19 year old, I was thinking of my future kids' education.
This is great and all, but you sacrificed one of the most important things in life for his academics--his social skills. Not going to any school creates it's own problems and makes your kids a whole lot less understanding of social norms, whether you try to prepare your kid for that or not. He will likely end up facing a lot of problems in the long term less related to actual academics. High school is known to be less about what you learn and more about learning to live, and homeschoolers' parents misunderstanding cost their children much of their social life. Additionally, this may affect your kid's ability to network, which is a major reason for going to college in the first place, and offers great potential for getting a great job, starting a company, or even developing new innovations. On the other hand, he's going into engineering which tends to be less sociable in general, so it should be less of a problem. Additionally he probably hasn't gotten into drugs yet (which happens more often than it should in middle school), and hopefully he's instilled the mindset not to take them. Good luck to you and your kid, I'm just trying to provide a counterargument because homeschooling is NOT a good idea at all for most.
Hmm, I can understand your perspective, but you've made many, many assumptions about how I home school. Good home schooling includes plenty of socializing, but merely avoids the drawbacks of the child being raised by his or her peers. Instead of an artificial social environment where the only people one hangs out with tend to be exactly their same age, a home school student learns how to socialize with people of all ages, which is much more similar to the real world. Nonetheless, one of the reasons I am cross-enrolling him for a class a year in a few years at a local public school is so he can acclamate to a classroom setting. That way the transition to a university will be easier. I did the same, by the way, when I was home schooled. And none of my social skills were adversely affected. During the career I did have, I was in guest services at hotels and spas. So, not shy at all. Cheers 😊
I am a retired Professor of Mechanical Engineering. I fully agree that the high schools of the US do not prepare students to take an engineering curriculum. You highlight Mathematics and Sciences. I think there is one more area of concern: vocational training in electronics, automotive engineering and hands on creation in metals and wood. I note a big difference in the ability to understand engineering concepts in students that have had vocational training versus those that did not. Most US high schools once had mandatory vocational training but had either downgraded these or completely eliminated these courses. In my experience, students that did take these courses had a much better grasp of engineering concepts and could apply their knowledge far better on course design projects. In general, our high schools are failing country in preparing students; this is yet another subject area that you should add to your lists. I also found that students who grew up on farms did much better as they were exposed to this kind of training.
Another factor processor is the divorce rate affecting having a father in the house . Statistically fathers were more likely to be doing work on house or cars similar to vocational training now gone in jr high and high School . In Ojai California the wood shop class was eliminated when the teacher retired . The town , men and women , were up in arms ! Mist fondly remembered the bird house type projects and wanted Their kids to experience the same . Turns out there were No high school state certified VO tech teachers left as the market was declining as the shops in the state were turned into “ computer labs”.
@@josephpadula2283 Even when Dad is around, they're most likely hiring that stuff done these days (maybe because they didn't have a father to learn from). I learned framing, cabinetry, wiring, plumbing, electrical, auto mechanics and more from my father (his father was a Ind Arts teacher). My son was never really interested, but my daughter was -- she's now a rising junior in ME. I guess someday her kids will learn it from Mom.
Studies are supporting this. It is just a need to renew the Mind and Hand movement of a century ago. MIT came out of this movement. It promoted teaching the useful arts alongside the theory. "In the Nattional Longitudinal Survey of Youth - 1979 Cohort, males show a higher interest in STEM coursework and better STEM skills by 10th grade, primarily in mechanical skills, leading to wider skill disparities. Simulation results show that mechanical skills are more important than math skills in explaining women’s low participation in applied-STEM fields and have contrasting effects on college enrollment and the selection of applied-STEM majors and occupations. Closing gender skill gaps upon exiting high school reduces female under-representation by 67% in applied-stem majors and 31% in applied-STEM occupations. " --STEMming the Gender Gap in the Applied Fields: Where are the Leaks in the Pipeline? Shasha Wang, October 30, 2023
@@jkbrown5496 definitely true. I coach a FIRST Robotics team -- our kids, including our girls, are way more likely to choose a STEM major than their high school cohorts.
Yes I have noticed that foreign students do very well in classes, but that is also a bias sample. Obviously the top performers out of a country are the ones that manage to procure financial aid to study here in the states. But what about the rest? Cherry picking the top students of a country will lead to skewed perceptions.
Specking of skewed perceptions. You are wrong about the best of foreign countries. American schools are not the best. They may be the best they could get into. The parents may have been transfered there as a job or career move.
As a former international student, I would argue that your presumptions were only partially accurate. While it is true that some people are among the finest in their individual nations, others opt to study in the US because they are unable to gain admission to STEM programs in their home countries. Another fact that is true is that the majority of international students are required to show that they have the financial resources to sustain themselves; if they don't, they won't be granted an F1 visa to study in the US; therefore, they need to be affluent, or from an affluent background, to do this.
I am currently a senior in aerospace engineering at a highly ranked school for the undergrad AE program, and I have to say that you’re spot on with your analysis. Most people that have finished high school in America just do not have the discipline to complete their homework. 50% of the freshman class ends up dropping out after or within the first year because they simply do not want to deal with the increased coursework of the program. What helped me breeze through the first 2 years was going to a STEM school, which used the IB program instead of the AP program. Our schoolwork was hard and there was a lot of it, and I felt that this gave me the work ethic that I would need for college. I have spent many weekend nights doing homework instead of going out with friends and as much as it sucks now, the thing that really keeps me going is that in the end, the degree will be worth it. I feel like if we can just instill the principle of delayed gratification amongst the high school population today, our engineering graduation rate would skyrocket. As much as education in math and physics is important, having resilience and grit is equally as important as well.
Yes like in Edmonton AB Canada, which I still live in from Gr 10 to 12 was a big jump with understanding the concepts as I went up. Even higher jump when I walked into a enriched linear algebra course that of course nor ready for even though it would be a breeze.
I took a pretty significant break in between high school and college. I joined the military because I didn't know what I wanted to do so I just kind of gave up in school and just worked all the time. I worked on a dairy farm everyday from as soon as I got out of class until 10:00 at night. I graduated high school with a 2.2 GPA. 7 years after the fact, I decided it was time for me to get back into school and I really enjoyed the work that I did with engineers. I had to remediate a lot of math, but he is absolutely right about learning discipline. That will carry you. I've noticed that I am absolutely dominating my coursework compared to students coming straight from high school because my time in the military was very demanding, so the transition was easy. I'm currently sitting at a 3.7 entering my second year of college while working full time. You can do it! Nothing is impossible!
Cool. My story has had some ups and downs. Tried to join The Army after high school, failed that (PT failure - mental not physical), was a Security Guard for a couple years, got arrested and convicted as a Felon (don't ask), earned a Welding Technical Diploma/Cert, and now I am beginning a Chemical Engineering Degree pathway (just aced my first semester coming out of another trade school course on Drafting).
Luckily Khan Academy offers decent math help for me anyway, just need to put more time into it. Besides coding, I am interested in the Mathematica, AutoCAD, and Solidworks software packs.
I taught EE for 38 years. In general, my students were some of the best and brightest. Overall, they never complained, never cut class or were distracted by phones, etc. I believe that most of them were truly interested in the subject material too. I tried to make my lectures as engaging and enjoyable as possible as well. Honestly, it was a great experience for me and them too. Many did struggle initially because of poor preparation in high school and poor study habits, but if they were motivated they overcame those deficits. And, if anyone reading this is interested, I’ve posted some decent transistor circuit analysis stuff here that you might enjoy.
this is definitely my experience right now (I just finished my 2nd year for mechanical engineering). I was top of my class at a public high school, and took the highest level math and science classes my school offered. When I first got to college I was barely passing in several of my classes while more often than not the international students were leagues ahead of me. I've finally figured it out for my 4th semester, but high school definitely didn't prepare me for the course load.
I'm in the exact same boat, first year was adapting and compromising to the new level of expectation. 2nd year 1st sem was realization of where I really was positioned to everyone else. Then in second sem I narrowed down on my weaknesses all semester long and had the best grades I've ever had. Coming from a homeschooled student as well
American School expections of students are non existent do to a liberal society expecting that the US will dominate the world because they believe they are superior.
in high school math you cover a couple pages in a week in college it's 30 pages or more every lecture ( i am old i still think in terms of pages of textbook)
The amount of people I talk to in my classes that say “I don’t have time for homework” or don’t even do it in the first place immediately came to mind with the self discipline part. So many American students aren’t disciplined enough to do homework
Unfortunately, if you have half a brain cell HW isn't necessary to graduate HS w/ high marks. Like he mentioned it's really a country wide systematic issue. And i graduated early 2K. These problems aren't new, they've simply been ignored until no longer possible.
I mean, I LITERALLY don’t have time for homework - well, not much time. I work 48h a week to help feed and shelter my wife, so even just taking a 10 credit hour semester I have to budget my time *very* carefully to prioritize what I’m going to study. It’s a rough balancing act. Sometimes it means sleeping less (I mean less than 5hrs and on my schedule of 14hr work/school days) and sometimes it means being okay with taking calculated hits on certain grades. I’m rambling: I’m sure lots of people in your class say that meaning “Study? Not a priority”. Some of them just might be people like me who are killing themselves just to budget enough time to pass with a C.
I'm in school for ME and graduate in May next. I agree, putting the work and time in is the biggest issue I see. The people struggling are the ones who wait until the last minute to do homework, projects, and study. It definitely requires discipline and mental stamina.
In my experience as an engineer, it’s about aptitude for engineering, for thinking and problem solving as an engineer and a tenacity when it comes to solving problems. Not everyone is cut from engineering cloth. Preparation. In high school is secondary.
Yes. A combination of Math skills and psychological skills, such as critical thinking. I always asked students what the first step in problem solving is and none of them ever got it right. "Define the actual problem." How could they not know this?
@@Rkenton48 Thats very sad. It seems like the ppl that got there are the ppl who never understood the meaning of work. They got by, by following the rules and learning what's told. But they cannot think for themselves. Very sad society. imbeciles.
@@hyhhy Hahahahah! Obviously, you're not an engineer! Oh, such a good laugh first thing in the morning! The clients only know what the effect or the symptoms are. They have no idea what the actual underlying problem is. Much like when you go to a doctor about an upset tummy, thinking it's indigestion and they find a knot in your intestines. Students HAVE to be able to figure out exactly what the problem is. No one is gonna be there to hold their hand and walk them through it in the field. THIS is what engineers do.
@@Rkenton48 I once went to the doctor thinking (fearing) it's a knot in my intestines, but it turned out to be just particularly bad indigestion. I am actually an engineering student, so I know first hand how bad the teaching can be. I don't personally believe the badness of the teaching gives much or even any benefit to graduated people "in the field". I think they just don't care to teach (and in general organize things) any better.
This is what I did. Six years in the Navy as a nuclear welder working on subs. Got out and got a job as a heat treater. Eight years of that and going at junior college (3.5 GPA) and saving money. Got accepted to University of Florida. Graduated in 1994 with a degree in Material Science and Engineering (3.5 GPA). Had enough savings to cover it all. Worked as a metallurgist for the Navy for 30 years (retired). I think that going to engineering school without some real experience is a great disadvantage. I would not have done it any other way. I also stayed in the Navy reserves and retired as a Chief Petty Officer. Not rich but I have really enjoyed my life.
i was not prepared academically, my highest math was pre calc, however I have always been interested in building/ designing things and knew what i was getting in to. so i worked my ass off and am extremely disciplined. I was able to average a 3.6 for my freshman year.
In my experience as a indian high schooler its preety much the same problem like america because in our country the elementary education upto 9&10 grade is preety straight forward easy with minimal critical thinking skills, easy maths and more of memorising things so that made us easily pass our 10th grade with a good marks so i decided to take science in my high schools,and trust me it was really horrifying experience the syllabus is hufe almost equal to the while syllabus of all the subjects from class 5to 10, and here many of the students fail like terribly we get very demotivated and it took us couple of weeks to be comfortable with the crazy subject like organic chemistry and mathematics.so yep! I am in 12 grade now and about to finish my school life in 5-6 months.i think we should rethink our curriculum specifically to reduce the huge jump between 11 and 10th grade...guys what are your oppinion and what were your difficulty you guys faced in your high schools i would be very happy to know!! TAKE CARE...❤😊
In my school, a big chunk of the people who said they were going to college for engineering didn’t even take “engineering classes”. The Counsellors who make the schedules would suggest for them to take an honors physics course and a pre-calculus course however they would end up taking no science courses and a regular level statistics course as they chose the easier options for their last year in high school. I knew of many people who said they wanted to go into engineering and weren’t taking these classes and I know that when the first semester starts in a few weeks they’re going to be definitely confused while everyone who took the basic preparatory classes for math and physics are going to be a lot better off. Also the classes that prepare you for engineering often count for college credit (pre calculus counts for college credit at my school) and are taught and graded like a college class. A lot of high schools give students the choice to pick their classes and if they aren’t taking the best classes for what they plan on doing in the future then no one can really stop them.
I was a Physics Major in the 80's, and the attrition rate was about 50% or so. My classmates who didn't continue with the Physics Degree typically completed Math or Computer Science, and couple did Chemistry. During my first Quarter, taking Calculus concurrently with Calculus-based Physics was a challenge, so I spent a lot of time at the TA's and Professor's Office Hours and attending discussion sessions.
When I was studying electrical engineering, we called it "pre-business", because so many flunked out of engineering and then did very well as business majors. I almost flunked out one year, but that was because the only time I could get any sleep was during class time, it was just much too noisy in the dorm all the time. Several of my college classes were just repeats of high school classes - chemistry, physics, mechanical drawing for examples. I and another guy from my high school were grading the college physics homework papers for everyone else while taking the class. I was not in any famously good high school, but had good enough preparation for college. Then again, that was 55 years ago...
I feel your pain Doug, I didn't take Calculus in HS, So the first year was difficult learning Calculus plus Physics too. I also had to make money to pay for school, so it was either in class, studying, working or sleeping for the 4 years to get my BS in Electrical Engineering.
@@BenAtTheTube I lasted a week in the dorm because it was too noisy and too many parties to be able to study engineering. I moved back home and continued Engineering.
I'm from Paraguay. This happens almost in the entire country. The students have to do a big jump from school to college. Usually people take private courses for the admission exam. And that's what I'm going to do probably.
Absolutely agree. In high school I was a top ten student. Just turning in the assignments was enough and I never learned to study. Freshman year college studying engineering and boom 💥. I scrambled like hell and barely made it that first year. But another thing too is I didn’t know failure. Never failed in hs and knew how to recover from that and learn from mistakes. Which is ESSENTIAL to engineering. Despite mistakes and investing the time focus and energy, even when you don’t want to do it, to fix those mistakes and continue is what moves you forward. Perseverance and dedication are key
I have never been good at Math all throughout school. It wasn't until I reached college it helped me understand how math relates to the real world instead of just formulas you need to memorize. Probably because in college you have to read the textbook to learn the material rather than a teacher just telling you how to do it. My first college math class was functions and modeling, and the professor really emphasized the concept of thinking 2 dimensionally. And an introduction to a fixed vs. growth mindset which really changed the game for me. This video really made me consider the math classes I took in high school. My most memorable was my geometry class sophomore year. We had a coach as a teacher who would just quickly rush through the lesson then go back to whatever she was doing. That was the first time in my life I ended the school year with a D on my transcript. And I never received any remedial classes or even a word from the teacher like "hey I know you're struggling what can I do to help?" nothing at all. I've had an interest in physics for a while now but granted that I'm not the best when it comes to math, I'm not too sure how well I'd do in it. Calculus wasn't even a course I took in high school, it was not mandatory and only if you've taken advanced math classes already would you be able to take Calculus. I did not even learn about AP classes until my sophomore year of high school.
Your analysis is well received, especially when it comes to self discipline. The day after having a highly productive day hitting the books, and understanding mathematical concepts, is the hardest from being mentally exhausted. However, even you’re less motivated to study more the next day, you are still acclimating yourself to new material, whether it feels good or not. It’s a lonely journey to graduate with an engineering degree because you need to spend hours at a time studying in the library, missing out on summertime activities. It is certainly a grind. In the end, it’s worth the effort.
The self discipline I learned in the Navy was a great help in college. I also learned how to study effectively in the Navy as well. Nuclear Power School was not a cakewalk.
I was an art student in college that became interested in science and engineering. That transition took some effort. A big help for me was a book called Thinking Physics. I graduated with a degree in studio art and mechanical and aerospace engineering. It was a lot of fun!
This is really interesting to me because I was homeschooled for ten years before making the questionable decision to go to public school Junior and senior year of high school. When I enrolled, I had never heard of AP classes and so I took the “regular” classes at “regular” school. This was a huge waste of time, but gave some insight into what many students my age perceived school to be. 3/4 of classes ended up as a show up, check a box, and leave kind of situation. Especially in Spanish and trigonometry class for some reason, 9/10 people in the class had no interest in the subject matter. It felt like a HUGE step down in difficulty from being homeschooled. Senior year I took AP calculus BC, AP Physics 2 and AP Physics 1, which were definitely a big step up from “regular” classes, but about on the same level as freshmen or sophomore homeschool classes.
Majority of American HS graduates do not take enough marh and science in school, which is why they can't hack it in engineering in college. You must have the discipline to do lots of homework every day for years on end. You need to master the material, not just memorize things. It's not an easy path studying engineering.
I graduated high school in 2014, got a gen Ed associate from 2018-20, took a break, and went into Engineering Physics last year. The hurdle it took for me was almost insurmountable. My brain was rotting away for the last 10 years while in the military and working. I came back to college with a 5th grade level of math skills. I barely remembered algebra. Even if I came fresh from high school, I would have still been struggling. The silver lining is when I compare my highschool education from 10 years ago to students coming out of high school now. They're getting a way better education than I did. Sucks for me, but it's good for America, at least. But the foreign student just dominates the classrooms when it comes to grades. Almost all of my physics/engineering teachers are all foreign as well. I think it takes just 2 traits to make it through school. Mental fortitude and Passion. The Mental fortitude will waiver at times, but you need the Passion to keep you putting one step in front of the other.
Of the 50% of students who do get a degree in engineering, the majority will never work as a practicing engineer much less as a registered professional engineer. As many as 75% of engineering school graduates will not work in their field of study.
@@peterbonucci9661 Any person who provides engineering services to the public (which includes any business) must be a registered professional engineer or work at a company owned or controlled by PEs and under the direct supervision of a PE. There are many people who fail to comply with the law, but when report (as always happens sooner or later) the person faces 30 days in jail and a $500 fine, with every day the practice continues being a separate offense. I know men whose businesses were destroyed by failure to comply with the law, which is how I came to be aware.
@@chejedi8397 Reputable studies have found that about 75% of people with degrees in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) degrees do not work in their field of study. I've found this to be true of most college graduates. Of 28 degreed engineering and technical staff I have working on one project, only one works in his field of study. The others migrated toward another field because, for one reason or another, the grass was greener on the other side of the fence. Many people graduate and then find out that they do not care for the real world work in their chosen profession.
I graduated from college 53 years ago with a degree in Electrical Engineering. High school preparation for me included the sciences, which included Biology, chemistry and physics, mathematics which included algebra, geometry, immediate algebra with trig and advance algebra with a quarter introducing calculus. Also, I was assigned to take Latin for the language requirement. The course in geometry focused on problem dealing writing proofs so that we can develop deductive reasoning and logic. The mathematics that is taught in high schools in my state had been revised and I wonder if the revision watered down the demand that was given to us when we were in high school. Going to engineering college, we found out that problem solving was the major focus, and if you developed the ability to solve problems before entering college, you will do well in college. The biggest mistake was to memorize how the professor solved the sample problem instead of developing your own skills.
It's amazing how many students that have a problem with calc physics (let only the non-calc {business} physics), and think they can do a better job in engineering mechanics or thermodynamics. I helped to set the curve in my thermodynamics course (which my ME department used as one of the final weed-outs), and probably ended the dreams of a few students right then & there.
I gave up on my Computer Science degree because tbh I wasn’t interested in it anymore. Programming was kicking my behind. Each time I went into the lab my anxiety level always went up. I just couldn’t do it anymore 🚮
I am currently a junior in computer engineering. When I was in high school, we had math and physics courses, but I didn’t feel adequately prepared when I transitioned to college. In 12th grade, instead of taking pre-calculus as originally planned, I ended up in a TSI Math prep course due to a new program they introduced. Looking back, I should have taken pre-calculus, but I didn’t. However, I’m resilient. Knowing I would be pursuing a pre-engineering degree in college, I took it upon myself to study diligently. I took notes from textbooks and worked through problems in college algebra and topics from Calculus 1. This preparation really paid off when I eventually took those courses; without it, I likely would have struggled more or needed to repeat classes. Interestingly, I’ve always done well in chemistry and physics, I read outside of classroom more.
I've found that the vast majority of engineering graduates are book worms and have no innate feel for real world engineering problems. I grew up around machinery and manufacturing environments. When I started as an engineer I rocketed ahead of my coworkers because of my real world previous experience.
as a German Electrical Engineer i can say the asian folks are a little bit ahead of us but also have an insane 10hours+ a day work ethic which makes the most difference - Tu Braunschweig
Most education focused families read to their kids, right? Starting as infants? Over time, we spend how much time reading to our kids? What if we spent as much time playing math games? I’m not talking flash cards…I mean genuinely enjoyable games involving math. As the kids get older, there are always ways to show math in our lives…shopping, estimating tip for dinner out, predicting when we will get there on a trip… Always being aware what kids are learning in school, and reinforcing that. Always making sure HW and classwork gets done. I recall discussions with other parents about HS, when my kids were in grade school. They talked about how stressed their kids were. It scared me, I did not want my kids to suffer due to stress. I figured the best way to prevent stress was to make sure they were prepared. Once kids are confident in math, they want to be in the advanced classses. For math, engineering and science, AP courses and college dual enrollment are a necessity. There is no substitute for preparation, and it literally starts when you have a child, if not before. There is no substitute. It’s 18 years of preparation. The American school system can get you there, but not by default. You need to take advantage of every opportunity, and there are many. Best of luck to those who want the best education for their children - it’s easy if you start early, and stay with it.
I left high school knowing calculus but hadn't taken physics as it wasn't offered. I took physics, with calculus, for the first time as a college freshman. The gap between high school and college was real. The prof threw out 3/4 of the class when the pencil dust from the final settled. One of those had taken AP physics. As for myself, I went on to double major in liberal art and engineering One thing I always tell people is that high school teaches you the progression of math from one formula to another. College expects you to understand what you were taught and logically figure out what you weren't taught, even during an exam.
yea public schools suck here in the US. My school personally teaches us up to trig and if we want to take precalc we gotta dual enrool at a college. No chances of taking a actual calculus class until you get into college. Aside from math for what I see is that teachers are expected to pander to the lowest grade student in public schools, so then a subject that would normally take 2 weeks takes 2 months. Even then some students still don't learn the subject because they 1) Dont care because they arent going to college and just need to pass. 2) Were pushed into the class because they passed the previous one, nevermind if they understood the concepts or not. The only real way to fix this knowledge gap is to have more pressure on the students, esspecially from parents. Personally as sterotypical as it may seem i feel like Idian and Japanese school and parents are a good example of this. Sure its a bit too much but the students are still expected to succeced and so they do.
At the start of my junior year in ChE, we were told only 1/3 of the students would be allowed to proceed to being a senior. Those of us who survived that culling proved we were smart but it was the senior year that taught us to be engineers. I’m not sure of what to think about letting more than 50% of freshman engineering students graduate. Your school should want above average talent graduates.
Wow that’s crazy, I bought your book about 3 months ago and the algorithm has brought me to you through RUclips as well. Also crazy that the school that conducted this study is the school I’m going to next year for electrical engineering. Very wild set of coincidences that I will interpret as me being successful in engineering lol.
While I found STEM in college not too bad, I went to a high-quality, public high school. The twist is that I’m essentially retired, so this was 40 years ago. Contrast that with my children, who were all educated in modern high-quality, public high schools, who struggled. Their schooling was so lax. It was hard for me to set necessary standards because all the teachers allowed late work and multiple attempts. “In my day…you did the work or you didn’t…if not handed in on time, then you’d get a zero.” It’s not that the classes themselves are easier (maybe they are that too), but there is no discipline instilled. It’s easier to get good grades while being able to slack.
I didn't make it 09. I've just finished up my first year back and while my math skills have deteriorated over the last 15 years, my life skills have improved so much that I feel more equipped than last time. I was that kid in high school that never developed study skill because HS was so easy to me and that just absolutely did not work once I started college.
this is totally right, especially about taking responsibility for your own math/science education. when i was applying for college, SAT 2 (subject SATs) were still required, and since i was applying for engineering i wanted to take the math and physics SATs. the problem was i had never taken a physics class beyond algebra-based kinematics, and the SAT covered electricity and magnetism. teaching myself that physics for sure helped prepare me for college.
I'm really surprised by these results, because I didn't notice a jump in difficulty or demand between high school and college at all. I did take a lot of AP and dual credit, so maybe that's why - honestly I feel like AP is harder than most actual college courses I've taken - but even comparing with my few non-AP/dual credit classes, I didn't think the gap was that big. And my public high school was a pretty average performer, too.
Very good vid. I went to an internationally recognized engineering school in the central US. Very competitive and challenging; before you walked the stage you had 2 or 3 job offers. 90% of us were in the top 10% of our HS graduating class. And HS did not challenge us enough. Not as good in math and science as we could be but those to stayed to graduation rose to the challenge. I can't tell you how many were valedictorians and salutatorians who didn't make it to their junior year because they weren't willing to work, compete and overcome failure at such a higher level. I graduated with degrees in math and geology & geophysics and loved working with my engineering buddies. Those EE, ChemE, GeolE and ME were brilliant. Great engineers learned to approach a problem from multiple areas with all they had. And they were real human beings, not automatons.
Suggestions: 1. Take as many AP classes as possible in HS (they will never be at collage level but you will get your feet wet.) 2. Retake all the AP science and math classes your freshman year in college and really learn the material as you are really going to see it again. 3. Take a lower class load in collage (
I TOTALLY agree with you about High School College Prep!! I graduated with an Electrical Engineering degree 45 years ago and high school preparatory classes were no better at that time. I spent much of my freshman year taking remedial math classes because my high school did not offer analytic geometry or calculus 1 (this caused my BSEE to be extended to almost five years instead of four). I seriously doubt if any of the so-called math teachers in that school could even teach those classes anyway. Most kids can't even balance a checkbook after graduating from an American high school.
Here in Finland the most common reason is work. When you have some studies and work experience under your belt, it's the work experience that counts. So many end up working (and having successful careers) full time and not finishing their masters degree.
I went into electronics from not passing any high school exams. I succeeded because I was willing to put the time in to not only learn electronics but also the maths required. I came out of college with distinctions in my exams.
In my case (double E major in telecom engineering) half of my classmates disappeared when I graduated. Apart from the standard subjects such as high frequency, automation, semiconductor physics, computer programming language, I remember I still need to do materials science, maths, technical drawing, society and culture. The crucial thing is: all was done in German. I am a Chinese with no knowledge of German during my high school education. I graduated with above average scores.
I graduated in 2018, went straight into the workforce for about a year, realized it wasn't what I wanted to do. Since I knew I couldn't afford college, I joined the military. After finishing my first contract, I got out and started from the ground up (meaning I took developmental classes related to areas i struggled in) on my education because I already knew I did not have the math skills required for engineering. This was honestly the best thing I could have done because math is fundamental in all of your engineering classes. So, by not having to waste time figuring out how the teacher solved a particular problem, it's definitely an advantage. Along with some soft skills I learned from the military, like self-discipline and time management, among many. The moral is anyone can become an engineer but if your not willing to put the work in to study and self identify problems areas you struggle in then by the 2nds semester or so youll be to far gone to recover because most classes built off the other and knowing the fundamentals is critical to understanding.
I am studying in Taiwan and our summer breaks are 2-2.5 months. The difference is that the students here choose to use that time for labs that they are interested in, but it’s not compulsory for bachelors degree.
This was along time ago, but I wonder if it still relevant? When I applied to Glasgow university to study engineering, the entry standards were quite high. Then I took a one year break. When I started, I found the entry standards had dropped significantly. I asked why and was told that, with the higher standards, the number of acceptable applicants was too low so they had dropped the standards to fill seats. Sure enough, 100 of the 200 students in my first year class dropped out. I was quite shocked that a university could arbitrarily do this to keep the money rolling in, while wasting a year for 100 young people.
UPRM operates in semesters. Each semester comprises a 15-week conference period and 1 to 2 weeks of finals. The Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering is a 5-year (i.e. 10 semesters) program with 160 credit-hours.
This is an absolute Great video and I think you are spot on with your analysis. Question: The SAT exam is designed to assess and level students Math skills since there are many differences of how students are prepared to start an Engineering curriculum. Do you think there is something missing in the SATs that doesn't identify readiness to attend Engineering school due to lack of math proficiency? Or maybe someone that scored high on the SAT math section just isn't ready for the extreme Engineering workload? On another topic I think Universities are aware of high school students not being prepared and offer excellent options for these students. Universities have set up partnerships with Community Colleges who build up student's math skills and provide opportunities to transfer into Engineering schools once students are ready. These programs are great! Final thought: When I entered an Engineering PhD program, as an American, I was the minority and students you mentioned from the math proficient countries were the majority. Great Videos! 🙂
That's why with the shift of Stem students coming to American college from Europe to America in the 20th century to from Asia to America in the 21st century. I would recommend studying Stem in Europe or Asia then coming back to America for work.
i went to university of toronto in 1979 . back then we had high school to grade 13 not 12 . i was in electrical engineering . first semester was not too hard because of gr13 in high school. it was mostly a rehash . but the work load was greater and by second semester it got much harder. back then technology was primitive. my introduction to computing was fortran and using punch cards. i can't imagine what it's like today with everyone having laptops and computing having revolutionized engineering. i'm sure the work load is much higher but, it can be, due to technology making so much more knowledge available and digestible.
I agree. I graduated in 1955 from one of the better public high schools in California. I made good grades with no effort at all. Then came engineering school at USC. I was swamped and not having good study habits, flunked a couple of courses. Eventually, I recovered enough to make it through with a rather low GPA. A few years later, I earned an MS in Physics from the Naval Postgraduate School and when I left the Navy, went on to earn an MS and PhD in EE from CalTech. Point being: I was never stupid, but was basically not properly educated in the public high school.
These degrees are quite difficult also there is stuff you can't teach you either get it or you don't. Even some academically competent people who graduate are hopeless engineers they end up going into management roles.
A lot of students think that they are top dogs in high school only to find out in college that they are just average. If you are pretty good at math, graduating college with an engineering degree should not be a problem. Purdue '55 sends.
Eighty-five percent of what they teach in electrical engineering is pure garbage. I spent most of time leaning about vacuum tubes when microchips that was being used at the time. Advance math was useless, most engineers don't even use much advance math I only use algebra once for an engineering calculation. I learned advanced math until I was very proficiend it was a total waste of time. Math teachers are there because engineering teachers and professors believe that advanced math is needed. Avanced math teachers are their because it's a jobs program for math teachers who otherwise can't get a real job. PE's or professional electrical engineers have you ever wondered why so many electrical engineers are PE's or professional electrical engineers? PE's or professional electrical engineers spend 90% of their time studying electrical engineering that they will use on the job. CAD-CAM is extremely useful and productive. Engineering teachers and professors absolutely cannot stand any piece of computer aided design or computer aided manufacturing or CAD-CAM because it makes electrical engineering easy and productive. Engineering teachers and professors prefer us to do electrical engineering designs on paper who uses that these days. Engineering teachers and professors are so outdated that they don't even know how to use CAD-CAM 3D additive manufacturing.
We're not talking about the usefulness of the stuff here though (which you're probably right about), we're talking about getting through it and getting that degree.
I had problems with the significant increase in requirements in Maths at University, My High School was not up to standard at all. However, I managed to graduate with a BE(Elect) but with a struggle due to lack of fundamental education at High School
For me at Iowa state I have found that the exchange students do about average at least for my class in the aerospace department. I have been surprised how many kids have been coming in staring calc 3 or dif eq their freshman year. But I will agree, my highschool years did not prep me that well to study engineering for the math side. But anyways lets hope I make it through these next few years. Also I was doing calc hw when listing to this and the second you said Iowa state I rose my head like huhhh lol.
I am a retired EE (I got an MSEE at 39) I have taught electronics, and communication electronics at the Junior college level (Vocational vice engineering track). I am amazed at how bad my students are at math. I wish I could fix this.
I'm in Australia and was doing a mechanical engineering degree, but had to drop out in the 2nd year as I just couldn't do the maths. And it wasn't even the the more difficult stuff. 😢
Long time engineer here, was not great in high school but I was fortunate enough to attend junior college to prepare myself for transferring to a four year university. Actually it took me four years at JC to prepare even though I still struggled later at the university. And yes I spent a lot of time on math and science that I should have done earlier years which makes sense of those students that tackled such subjects earlier would then not get so hung up on basic concepts in advanced classes. I also feel I should have better prepared myself with English classes such as reading and writing. Because engineering classes demand be able to read high level textbooks and able to write good reports. And as a working engineer I have to read a lot of reports and data sheets plus write tons of emails and reports.
I was watching a different video and RUclips algorithm suggested me this one to watch. I love engineering and anything related to it. I am graduated now with a Master Degree in Electrical Engineering. I am very grateful that I had the opportunity to come to the US and finish my education. One of the best country in the world. Like the author of the video say it takes a lot of effort and determination to be successful in engineering. The math is strongly heavy in Electrical engineering. One of the reasons I was successful was because I love mathematics and I was not bad at it. Also I did not stop learning things on my own. Anything that I thought that would help me to be successful I would a way to study it. If you are from the US knows that you are living in a great country. The only left is just have a goal about type of engineering you want to be and study real hard for it you won’t regret it. Even after you got done you will be still learning and tested at job place. You will be a given a project that your organization will rely on you to deliver. So take it seriously and know that the journey is long and you can be a great engineer if you are dedicated. Be strong in mathematics and understand it.
50% that’s pretty good, my class started with ~150 and 17 of us graduated. Sadly, what I’m seeing is companies are giving engineering titles to individuals that don’t have engineering degrees - not good for those with actual degrees or for safety & innovation. Would like to hear your take on that subject?
50%, ha. I still remember my first day of Freshman Engineering at Iowa State. Almost his very first words, the prof says "Look left, look right", one of you will drop out, one of you will switch to an easier college, one of you will become an Engineer. Which will you be?" PS, don't blame your high school, I went to a lousy rural school, not a single AP or IB class offered -- sure preparation helps, but it's really about are you willing to put in the effort -- do you have the drive to "win".
Yeah, this was common practice in our day. I remember hearing that while one of my high school classmates was sitting next to me in a Sophomore engineering class. He only lasted another couple of days. The common path was to Mech/Chem/Nucl/Elec/Aero Engr --> Industrial Engr. --> Business.
It's simple. College isn't about teaching people. It's about getting through the subject matter by the arbitrary deadline whether the students are learning it or not.
You asked for our input and if it aligns with your findings: I studied some engineering (a year of Aero/Astro [5 subjects rolled into one] and one course in Mech E) and a ton of Math. In engineering, most were either Korean or Japanese. 90% were male. One guy started his freshman year at the age of 15 after having done several years of Math and Physics at Ohio State while in High School! He was Korean. I majored in Math with a primary focus on Theoretical Math taking many graduate level classes. Most students in Pure Math were from Germany or Russia, I think I remember one student from India, but no other Asians and not a single female. Of all the students I met that couldn't pass but still wanted to graduate, doing the typical switch of majors to Political Science when failing out, none were Asian. And finally, it's not just the high schools here that fall short. Many colleges do too. I have met many Germans that finished their Abitur (equivalent to a high school diploma) that are to an embarrassing level smarter and more educated than most college grads here in the U.S.
35+ years working in industry since I graduated, have mentored and recruited many engineers. If you get past 2nd semester calculus (typically integration) and dynamic physics & really understand those topics, you will graduate. It’s really that simple, and those classes are really that important.
From my experience, you're right. Public high school didn't prepare me for engineering in a top 10 university. Failed my first course ever in the first semester. I've gotten used to it though and I'm mostly caught up to everyone else who found things obvious I've never heard of. Why does no one try to help american high school students get caught up to the rest of the world though?
I am in college for engineering and I am recently struggling with course like calculus and physics. when I was in high school my school didn't have no physics class to offer and there was no CCP class to provided either except for English 101 that is the only thing am glad I took. But now with calc based physics class it is very hard understand the concepts because I didn't have the basic physics in high school. I know for sure if I was in high school in other country I learn physics as a mandatory class. High schools in other country take physics course starting for 7th-12 grade in every single school. I took physics in 7th grade before I came to the US and never seen physics until now. I don't know why in the USA physics is not mandatory class you have to take in high school at list once, while its mandatory to take 4 English class in high school.
My son was the valedictorian at a public high school and still had to "dual-enroll" with a local college and take college level calculus classes while in 12th grade and got in to Cornell. Graduated in Elect. & Computer Engineering in 2012.
It is Maths, Maths, Maths. For a three years or four years engineering courses you study mostly Maths for the for first and second years. For the final years more maths in your specialisation options. In essence your mastery of Maths should be at least 80 percentile before entering engineering degree.
While, I am in general agreement with your comments have a sightly different spin. In the early 1980's, I earned my B.S. degree in Electrical Engineering and at my college you start with calculus for engineers, then afterward, you take three more advanced math classes. So, for students who had High School calculus they had an advantage over students who, only had high school trigonometry and were now, seeing calculus for the very first time. Also, at my college, you start taking classes in your subject major during both your freshman and sophomore years. Therefore, by the time, I was a junior about 50 percent of my class had transferred out of the Engineering School and into the Technology School where, they earned their degrees in Electrical and Electronics Technology (smile...smile).
This resonates with me. Just uploaded the final revision of my Masters Thesis - in Artificial Intelligence about two weeks ago (at age 57). Last serious school work before this as MSc CS from Boston University in 1993. If anyone had really explained how much math was in the AI program before I had started, that would have been a hard no. While I wait on final grades from University of Leeds, I can say it was really different from years ago. Everything remote, no doubt enabled by COVID.
Here is an example from the past. My senior year in high school was 1973-1974, Norwalk, CT. I took calculus, computer science, and probability & statistics. I repeated calculus in college but I had a better background for college level math. I eventually graduated from UC Berkeley in physics and then mechanical engineering. I had a 30 year engineering career at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. I retired at 55. It definitely helps to have a good high school education. I’m not at all familiar with today’s high school educational quality. Work hard and good luck.
I'm from a rural US school high school and too all of the science and math I could. I blew through HS. The first quarter in college was a disaster. I figured out that I had to work twice as hard as every one else to accomplish the work. I probably had a learning disability and just got through HS on being smart. My biggest strength was being stubborn. When i was almost kicked out of college, I decided they weren't going to stop me.
I was born in Taiwan. At the age 15 in early 1980's I came to the US. During my high school years in Northern California, I was repeating Algebra, Geometry, pre-calculus, Physics, Chemistry and Biology courses that I had already taken in my Taiwanese middle school. I mostly focused on English (from English as a second language to regular 12th grade English), US History/ Government and Calculus courses in American high school. I scored 800 on my SAT math but only 550+ on English. Now I am retired. I am thankful that my middle school in Taiwan gave me an excellent science/math education.
It requires a lot of math, science and specialized courses and most universitys are not set up for this multi disipline study. The job prospects are also limited as most private companies want you to go into management as soon as posible and most engineers don't want this.
Bangladeshi engineering student here, here, we do have some advanced match classes that are supposed to be taught in high school (Equivalent), but most teachers are really lousy at doing their job. We even have some math courses that are offered by the university in the early years just to prepare you for the later years of engineering. It is a bit luck based on who will take your class. The most helpful thing we can do is learn the stuff online. We actually learn about 80% of our stuff online, sine most of our teachers are, lets say, not the most optimal......
I reason i didn't graduate is because of a health condition. I quit after 2 years and i couldn't attend many classes and had a hell lot to supply exams to clear
I put myself through graduate school in engineering in the US by working as a graduate teaching assistant. Lucky me, I was tasked with teaching the weeding out courses, Statics and Dynamics. Most students could not get past this barrier and dropped out and went to B-school. Most of us are not cut out for STEM fields. I also think the percentage of dropouts is much higher than 50%.
i didn't realize that graduation rate was so low. I got a BS in ChE, MS in SysEng, MS in EngMgt. But my grades for the first one wasn't as high as in HS . i blame being away from home for the first time and an 18 y/o drinking age. That was in the early 80s.
I work in a magnet high school. I see kids who talk about being an engineer, but they avoid the tough math and science classes. At the same time my son attends a different magnet school with a very demanding academic program. He will be a senior next year. He’s on his second year of calculus and next year has cd calculus and statistics as an elective. He also had algebra based physics and will have calculus based physics senior year. I will say that the math curriculum in America needs a lot of work. For algebra the classes should be two hours instead of one. More time to soak it in. Geometry should be an extended class, with trig taught as a separate one semester class. The college option diploma should require 6 units of math, not four.
Best thing my engineer daughter ever did was take college pre calculus in high school. It helped her ACT score and she could start her freshman year in calculus 1 with confidence.
In Connecticut, back in the 70's, there were certain high school criteria just to be CONSIDERED for college. Now, they don't even have to be able to read.
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One reason bigger than all the reasons mentioned here: So many students choose engineering for the wrong reasons and simply aren't cut out for stem.
I would say these students find out that this career is not something they want to do. It's common for many to switch majors or if they get to graduation, they change career paths.
@ScienceNow-racist much bro?
If I can make it through Chem E, anyone can, I had a rough ride in life; I dropped out of highschool in the 11th grade and got a GED. I eventually got my sht together and went to community college where I met my 2 mentors, both my college algebra & gen chemistry teachers. I guess they saw something in me because they really went out of their way in mentoring me, that same algebra teacher also tutored me in pre-calc, calculus & physics as I progressed. But bottom & line, I stuck with it, kept in contact with my instructors even when I transferred to university. I owe the rest of my life to these 2 men, because I literally had no options, I couldn’t even join the military at that time because they weren’t accepting GED’s. Bottom line, I don’t care how dumb you might think you are, if your back was against the wall like mine was, you’d get through it, no sleep & all, I had nothing else to look forward to, literally. You can do it honestly, but not with sacrifices.
@@Lemurai Sounds like you took advantage of what higher education should be: Where bums that want to elevate themselves. The problem is this path has become very expensive, while not impossible to overcome barriers, the more barriers the more people will decide not to pursue such path. i.e. shortage of teachers where requirements are high, cost of meeting those requirements are high, but the pay is low.
@ScienceNow-That's wishful and resentful thinking, friend. Of course DEI is an absurdity, but you sound like a _mediocrity_ terrified of getting exposed as a fraud.
I suspect that you are an angry, little midwit who never leaves his comfort zone (like the guy from Dostoevsky's "Underground man").
Just sayin'
My high school, the best in the state, had no physics class. Boy did that screw me big time. When I got to college, i made a 30 percent on the first physics exam. However, while working at McDonald’s my Senior year, one worker had a brother majoring in Physics at University of Kentucky. I got tutoring lessons from him at 4 times the minimum wage per hour, and recovered and got an A in calculus based physics.
On my way to a Bachelor in Mechanical Engineering!
...also I HIGHLY recommend his book!
Good luck!
Me too, are you also applying to start in autumn?
👍🏿
Don't forget:
Join clubs, meet people and make friends. It's more important than the coursework.
I strongly agree. My nearly 14 yr old son wants to go into civil engineering. I home school him, so I'm able to gear his upcoming high school to prepare him. He'll be skipping 9th grade next year and going right into 10th. His math is prepared for that as he's already taking grade 10 math this year. I'll be adding 8 courses to his high school for personal development and critical thinking (including formal rhetoric for his classical education, as he's already taken two years each of Latin and Logic) to extend his high school to finish at the normal time with the skipped year. And by the time he's done, he'll have gotten his Microsoft Office certificate, cross-enrolled with our local public high school for three years of architectural drafting, studied Python coding this coming summer on RUclips, and taken AP Calculus. That's the plan. He's motivated, so I'm confident he'll do great.
Thanks for the encouraging video!
I so wanted a woman like you to have been my mother 😔
❤ You can be that parent to your kids one day. Make choices now so you can set yourself up for success. I was home schooled growing up. I went on to get a BA with honours. It was a big jump for me and really intimidating, but I worked super hard. I didn't do it for my career per se, but to be a better home school mom. Yes, even as a 19 year old, I was thinking of my future kids' education.
This is great and all, but you sacrificed one of the most important things in life for his academics--his social skills. Not going to any school creates it's own problems and makes your kids a whole lot less understanding of social norms, whether you try to prepare your kid for that or not. He will likely end up facing a lot of problems in the long term less related to actual academics. High school is known to be less about what you learn and more about learning to live, and homeschoolers' parents misunderstanding cost their children much of their social life. Additionally, this may affect your kid's ability to network, which is a major reason for going to college in the first place, and offers great potential for getting a great job, starting a company, or even developing new innovations.
On the other hand, he's going into engineering which tends to be less sociable in general, so it should be less of a problem. Additionally he probably hasn't gotten into drugs yet (which happens more often than it should in middle school), and hopefully he's instilled the mindset not to take them.
Good luck to you and your kid, I'm just trying to provide a counterargument because homeschooling is NOT a good idea at all for most.
Hmm, I can understand your perspective, but you've made many, many assumptions about how I home school. Good home schooling includes plenty of socializing, but merely avoids the drawbacks of the child being raised by his or her peers. Instead of an artificial social environment where the only people one hangs out with tend to be exactly their same age, a home school student learns how to socialize with people of all ages, which is much more similar to the real world.
Nonetheless, one of the reasons I am cross-enrolling him for a class a year in a few years at a local public school is so he can acclamate to a classroom setting. That way the transition to a university will be easier.
I did the same, by the way, when I was home schooled. And none of my social skills were adversely affected. During the career I did have, I was in guest services at hotels and spas. So, not shy at all.
Cheers 😊
Hey mam, May I ask one question
What homeschooling is like?
I am an Indian so I literally don't know what homeschooling is
I am a retired Professor of Mechanical Engineering. I fully agree that the high schools of the US do not prepare students to take an engineering curriculum. You highlight Mathematics and Sciences. I think there is one more area of concern: vocational training in electronics, automotive engineering and hands on creation in metals and wood. I note a big difference in the ability to understand engineering concepts in students that have had vocational training versus those that did not. Most US high schools once had mandatory vocational training but had either downgraded these or completely eliminated these courses. In my experience, students that did take these courses had a much better grasp of engineering concepts and could apply their knowledge far better on course design projects. In general, our high schools are failing country in preparing students; this is yet another subject area that you should add to your lists. I also found that students who grew up on farms did much better as they were exposed to this kind of training.
Ya cause it'll prepare for the real world rather than sit thru a textbook
Another factor processor is the divorce rate affecting having a father in the house .
Statistically fathers were more likely to be doing work on house or cars similar to vocational training now gone in jr high and high School .
In Ojai California the wood shop class was eliminated when the teacher retired . The town , men and women , were up in arms !
Mist fondly remembered the bird house type projects and wanted Their kids to experience the same .
Turns out there were No high
school state certified VO tech teachers left as the market was declining as the shops in the state were turned into “ computer labs”.
@@josephpadula2283 Even when Dad is around, they're most likely hiring that stuff done these days (maybe because they didn't have a father to learn from). I learned framing, cabinetry, wiring, plumbing, electrical, auto mechanics and more from my father (his father was a Ind Arts teacher). My son was never really interested, but my daughter was -- she's now a rising junior in ME. I guess someday her kids will learn it from Mom.
Studies are supporting this. It is just a need to renew the Mind and Hand movement of a century ago. MIT came out of this movement. It promoted teaching the useful arts alongside the theory.
"In the Nattional Longitudinal Survey of Youth - 1979 Cohort, males show a higher interest in STEM
coursework and better STEM skills by 10th grade, primarily in mechanical skills, leading to wider skill disparities. Simulation results show that mechanical skills are more important than math skills in explaining women’s low participation in applied-STEM fields and have contrasting effects on college enrollment and the selection of applied-STEM majors and occupations. Closing gender skill gaps upon exiting high school reduces female under-representation by 67% in applied-stem majors and 31% in applied-STEM occupations. "
--STEMming the Gender Gap in the Applied Fields: Where are the Leaks in the Pipeline?
Shasha Wang, October 30, 2023
@@jkbrown5496 definitely true. I coach a FIRST Robotics team -- our kids, including our girls, are way more likely to choose a STEM major than their high school cohorts.
Yes I have noticed that foreign students do very well in classes, but that is also a bias sample. Obviously the top performers out of a country are the ones that manage to procure financial aid to study here in the states. But what about the rest? Cherry picking the top students of a country will lead to skewed perceptions.
Specking of skewed perceptions. You are wrong about the best of foreign countries. American schools are not the best. They may be the best they could get into. The parents may have been transfered there as a job or career move.
Thank you. This video has flawed analysis.
I wonder if the other countries are sending "diversity" students? Haha
As a former international student, I would argue that your presumptions were only partially accurate. While it is true that some people are among the finest in their individual nations, others opt to study in the US because they are unable to gain admission to STEM programs in their home countries.
Another fact that is true is that the majority of international students are required to show that they have the financial resources to sustain themselves; if they don't, they won't be granted an F1 visa to study in the US; therefore, they need to be affluent, or from an affluent background, to do this.
@@Number6_ American schools are the best, especially if they get you American jobs.
I am currently a senior in aerospace engineering at a highly ranked school for the undergrad AE program, and I have to say that you’re spot on with your analysis.
Most people that have finished high school in America just do not have the discipline to complete their homework. 50% of the freshman class ends up dropping out after or within the first year because they simply do not want to deal with the increased coursework of the program.
What helped me breeze through the first 2 years was going to a STEM school, which used the IB program instead of the AP program. Our schoolwork was hard and there was a lot of it, and I felt that this gave me the work ethic that I would need for college.
I have spent many weekend nights doing homework instead of going out with friends and as much as it sucks now, the thing that really keeps me going is that in the end, the degree will be worth it.
I feel like if we can just instill the principle of delayed gratification amongst the high school population today, our engineering graduation rate would skyrocket.
As much as education in math and physics is important, having resilience and grit is equally as important as well.
Yes like in Edmonton AB Canada, which I still live in from Gr 10 to 12 was a big jump with understanding the concepts as I went up. Even higher jump when I walked into a enriched linear algebra course that of course nor ready for even though it would be a breeze.
I took a pretty significant break in between high school and college. I joined the military because I didn't know what I wanted to do so I just kind of gave up in school and just worked all the time. I worked on a dairy farm everyday from as soon as I got out of class until 10:00 at night. I graduated high school with a 2.2 GPA. 7 years after the fact, I decided it was time for me to get back into school and I really enjoyed the work that I did with engineers. I had to remediate a lot of math, but he is absolutely right about learning discipline. That will carry you. I've noticed that I am absolutely dominating my coursework compared to students coming straight from high school because my time in the military was very demanding, so the transition was easy. I'm currently sitting at a 3.7 entering my second year of college while working full time. You can do it! Nothing is impossible!
Cool. My story has had some ups and downs. Tried to join The Army after high school, failed that (PT failure - mental not physical), was a Security Guard for a couple years, got arrested and convicted as a Felon (don't ask), earned a Welding Technical Diploma/Cert, and now I am beginning a Chemical Engineering Degree pathway (just aced my first semester coming out of another trade school course on Drafting).
I work 30 hours a week at my job while going through an aerospace engineering program and it’s torture lol.
2.2 GPA to 3.7 is crazy
@@grav8455 Makes a difference when you actually turn in homework.
@@obi-wankenobi1750 It will pay off in the end I'm sure. Experience is invaluable to companies now.
Luckily Khan Academy offers decent math help for me anyway, just need to put more time into it. Besides coding, I am interested in the Mathematica, AutoCAD, and Solidworks software packs.
I taught EE for 38 years. In general, my students were some of the best and brightest. Overall, they never complained, never cut class or were distracted by phones, etc. I believe that most of them were truly interested in the subject material too. I tried to make my lectures as engaging and enjoyable as possible as well. Honestly, it was a great experience for me and them too.
Many did struggle initially because of poor preparation in high school and poor study habits, but if they were motivated they overcame those deficits.
And, if anyone reading this is interested, I’ve posted some decent transistor circuit analysis stuff here that you might enjoy.
this is definitely my experience right now (I just finished my 2nd year for mechanical engineering). I was top of my class at a public high school, and took the highest level math and science classes my school offered. When I first got to college I was barely passing in several of my classes while more often than not the international students were leagues ahead of me. I've finally figured it out for my 4th semester, but high school definitely didn't prepare me for the course load.
I'm in the exact same boat, first year was adapting and compromising to the new level of expectation. 2nd year 1st sem was realization of where I really was positioned to everyone else. Then in second sem I narrowed down on my weaknesses all semester long and had the best grades I've ever had. Coming from a homeschooled student as well
American School expections of students are non existent do to a liberal society expecting that the US will dominate the world because they believe they are superior.
in high school math you cover a couple pages in a week in college it's 30 pages or more every lecture ( i am old i still think in terms of pages of textbook)
I was a math major and went through something similar. It didn't help that I went from a crappy inner city school to one of the "new Ivies".
The amount of people I talk to in my classes that say “I don’t have time for homework” or don’t even do it in the first place immediately came to mind with the self discipline part.
So many American students aren’t disciplined enough to do homework
Unfortunately, if you have half a brain cell HW isn't necessary to graduate HS w/ high marks. Like he mentioned it's really a country wide systematic issue. And i graduated early 2K. These problems aren't new, they've simply been ignored until no longer possible.
I mean, I LITERALLY don’t have time for homework - well, not much time. I work 48h a week to help feed and shelter my wife, so even just taking a 10 credit hour semester I have to budget my time *very* carefully to prioritize what I’m going to study. It’s a rough balancing act. Sometimes it means sleeping less (I mean less than 5hrs and on my schedule of 14hr work/school days) and sometimes it means being okay with taking calculated hits on certain grades. I’m rambling: I’m sure lots of people in your class say that meaning “Study? Not a priority”. Some of them just might be people like me who are killing themselves just to budget enough time to pass with a C.
I'm in school for ME and graduate in May next. I agree, putting the work and time in is the biggest issue I see. The people struggling are the ones who wait until the last minute to do homework, projects, and study. It definitely requires discipline and mental stamina.
It’s because highschool is a joke
So true
In my experience as an engineer, it’s about aptitude for engineering, for thinking and problem solving as an engineer and a tenacity when it comes to solving problems. Not everyone is cut from engineering cloth. Preparation. In high school is secondary.
Yes. A combination of Math skills and psychological skills, such as critical thinking. I always asked students what the first step in problem solving is and none of them ever got it right. "Define the actual problem." How could they not know this?
@@Rkenton48 Thats very sad.
It seems like the ppl that got there are the ppl who never understood the meaning of work.
They got by, by following the rules and learning what's told.
But they cannot think for themselves.
Very sad society. imbeciles.
@@Rkenton48 It's someone else's job to "define the actual problem", not a student's who doesn't get paid for it.
@@hyhhy Hahahahah! Obviously, you're not an engineer! Oh, such a good laugh first thing in the morning! The clients only know what the effect or the symptoms are. They have no idea what the actual underlying problem is. Much like when you go to a doctor about an upset tummy, thinking it's indigestion and they find a knot in your intestines. Students HAVE to be able to figure out exactly what the problem is. No one is gonna be there to hold their hand and walk them through it in the field. THIS is what engineers do.
@@Rkenton48 I once went to the doctor thinking (fearing) it's a knot in my intestines, but it turned out to be just particularly bad indigestion.
I am actually an engineering student, so I know first hand how bad the teaching can be. I don't personally believe the badness of the teaching gives much or even any benefit to graduated people "in the field". I think they just don't care to teach (and in general organize things) any better.
This is what I did. Six years in the Navy as a nuclear welder working on subs. Got out and got a job as a heat treater. Eight years of that and going at junior college (3.5 GPA) and saving money. Got accepted to University of Florida. Graduated in 1994 with a degree in Material Science and Engineering (3.5 GPA). Had enough savings to cover it all. Worked as a metallurgist for the Navy for 30 years (retired). I think that going to engineering school without some real experience is a great disadvantage. I would not have done it any other way. I also stayed in the Navy reserves and retired as a Chief Petty Officer. Not rich but I have really enjoyed my life.
I had a French kid in my calculus class in senior year of high school. Needless to say, he could do the tests with his eyes closed.
i was not prepared academically, my highest math was pre calc, however I have always been interested in building/ designing things and knew what i was getting in to. so i worked my ass off and am extremely disciplined. I was able to average a 3.6 for my freshman year.
In my experience as a indian high schooler its preety much the same problem like america because in our country the elementary education upto 9&10 grade is preety straight forward easy with minimal critical thinking skills, easy maths and more of memorising things so that made us easily pass our 10th grade with a good marks so i decided to take science in my high schools,and trust me it was really horrifying experience the syllabus is hufe almost equal to the while syllabus of all the subjects from class 5to 10, and here many of the students fail like terribly we get very demotivated and it took us couple of weeks to be comfortable with the crazy subject like organic chemistry and mathematics.so yep! I am in 12 grade now and about to finish my school life in 5-6 months.i think we should rethink our curriculum specifically to reduce the huge jump between 11 and 10th grade...guys what are your oppinion and what were your difficulty you guys faced in your high schools i would be very happy to know!!
TAKE CARE...❤😊
In my school, a big chunk of the people who said they were going to college for engineering didn’t even take “engineering classes”. The Counsellors who make the schedules would suggest for them to take an honors physics course and a pre-calculus course however they would end up taking no science courses and a regular level statistics course as they chose the easier options for their last year in high school. I knew of many people who said they wanted to go into engineering and weren’t taking these classes and I know that when the first semester starts in a few weeks they’re going to be definitely confused while everyone who took the basic preparatory classes for math and physics are going to be a lot better off. Also the classes that prepare you for engineering often count for college credit (pre calculus counts for college credit at my school) and are taught and graded like a college class. A lot of high schools give students the choice to pick their classes and if they aren’t taking the best classes for what they plan on doing in the future then no one can really stop them.
I was a Physics Major in the 80's, and the attrition rate was about 50% or so. My classmates who didn't continue with the Physics Degree typically completed Math or Computer Science, and couple did Chemistry.
During my first Quarter, taking Calculus concurrently with Calculus-based Physics was a challenge, so I spent a lot of time at the TA's and Professor's Office Hours and attending discussion sessions.
"taking Calculus concurrently with Calculus-based Physics was a challenge..."; you nailed it.
When I was studying electrical engineering, we called it "pre-business", because so many flunked out of engineering and then did very well as business majors. I almost flunked out one year, but that was because the only time I could get any sleep was during class time, it was just much too noisy in the dorm all the time. Several of my college classes were just repeats of high school classes - chemistry, physics, mechanical drawing for examples. I and another guy from my high school were grading the college physics homework papers for everyone else while taking the class. I was not in any famously good high school, but had good enough preparation for college. Then again, that was 55 years ago...
I feel your pain Doug, I didn't take Calculus in HS, So the first year was difficult learning Calculus plus Physics too. I also had to make money to pay for school, so it was either in class, studying, working or sleeping for the 4 years to get my BS in Electrical Engineering.
@@BenAtTheTube I lasted a week in the dorm because it was too noisy and too many parties to be able to study engineering. I moved back home and continued Engineering.
@@Keith80027 ... *and* you got it done!
I'm from Paraguay. This happens almost in the entire country. The students have to do a big jump from school to college. Usually people take private courses for the admission exam. And that's what I'm going to do probably.
Absolutely agree. In high school I was a top ten student. Just turning in the assignments was enough and I never learned to study. Freshman year college studying engineering and boom 💥. I scrambled like hell and barely made it that first year.
But another thing too is I didn’t know failure. Never failed in hs and knew how to recover from that and learn from mistakes. Which is ESSENTIAL to engineering. Despite mistakes and investing the time focus and energy, even when you don’t want to do it, to fix those mistakes and continue is what moves you forward. Perseverance and dedication are key
The highest math and science scores in countries are Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan and South Korea.
I have never been good at Math all throughout school. It wasn't until I reached college it helped me understand how math relates to the real world instead of just formulas you need to memorize. Probably because in college you have to read the textbook to learn the material rather than a teacher just telling you how to do it. My first college math class was functions and modeling, and the professor really emphasized the concept of thinking 2 dimensionally. And an introduction to a fixed vs. growth mindset which really changed the game for me.
This video really made me consider the math classes I took in high school. My most memorable was my geometry class sophomore year. We had a coach as a teacher who would just quickly rush through the lesson then go back to whatever she was doing. That was the first time in my life I ended the school year with a D on my transcript. And I never received any remedial classes or even a word from the teacher like "hey I know you're struggling what can I do to help?" nothing at all.
I've had an interest in physics for a while now but granted that I'm not the best when it comes to math, I'm not too sure how well I'd do in it. Calculus wasn't even a course I took in high school, it was not mandatory and only if you've taken advanced math classes already would you be able to take Calculus. I did not even learn about AP classes until my sophomore year of high school.
Your analysis is well received, especially when it comes to self discipline. The day after having a highly productive day hitting the books, and understanding mathematical concepts, is the hardest from being mentally exhausted. However, even you’re less motivated to study more the next day, you are still acclimating yourself to new material, whether it feels good or not.
It’s a lonely journey to graduate with an engineering degree because you need to spend hours at a time studying in the library, missing out on summertime activities. It is certainly a grind. In the end, it’s worth the effort.
The self discipline I learned in the Navy was a great help in college. I also learned how to study effectively in the Navy as well. Nuclear Power School was not a cakewalk.
I was an art student in college that became interested in science and engineering. That transition took some effort. A big help for me was a book called Thinking Physics. I graduated with a degree in studio art and mechanical and aerospace engineering. It was a lot of fun!
This is really interesting to me because I was homeschooled for ten years before making the questionable decision to go to public school Junior and senior year of high school. When I enrolled, I had never heard of AP classes and so I took the “regular” classes at “regular” school. This was a huge waste of time, but gave some insight into what many students my age perceived school to be. 3/4 of classes ended up as a show up, check a box, and leave kind of situation. Especially in Spanish and trigonometry class for some reason, 9/10 people in the class had no interest in the subject matter. It felt like a HUGE step down in difficulty from being homeschooled. Senior year I took AP calculus BC, AP Physics 2 and AP Physics 1, which were definitely a big step up from “regular” classes, but about on the same level as freshmen or sophomore homeschool classes.
very interesting perspective. thanks for the comment!
Majority of American HS graduates do not take enough marh and science in school, which is why they can't hack it in engineering in college. You must have the discipline to do lots of homework every day for years on end. You need to master the material, not just memorize things. It's not an easy path studying engineering.
I graduated high school in 2014, got a gen Ed associate from 2018-20, took a break, and went into Engineering Physics last year. The hurdle it took for me was almost insurmountable. My brain was rotting away for the last 10 years while in the military and working. I came back to college with a 5th grade level of math skills. I barely remembered algebra. Even if I came fresh from high school, I would have still been struggling. The silver lining is when I compare my highschool education from 10 years ago to students coming out of high school now. They're getting a way better education than I did. Sucks for me, but it's good for America, at least. But the foreign student just dominates the classrooms when it comes to grades. Almost all of my physics/engineering teachers are all foreign as well.
I think it takes just 2 traits to make it through school. Mental fortitude and Passion. The Mental fortitude will waiver at times, but you need the Passion to keep you putting one step in front of the other.
Of the 50% of students who do get a degree in engineering, the majority will never work as a practicing engineer much less as a registered professional engineer. As many as 75% of engineering school graduates will not work in their field of study.
At least in the US, the vast majority don't need the registration. Something like 2% that I knew had one, none needed it.
@@peterbonucci9661 Any person who provides engineering services to the public (which includes any business) must be a registered professional engineer or work at a company owned or controlled by PEs and under the direct supervision of a PE.
There are many people who fail to comply with the law, but when report (as always happens sooner or later) the person faces 30 days in jail and a $500 fine, with every day the practice continues being a separate offense.
I know men whose businesses were destroyed by failure to comply with the law, which is how I came to be aware.
75% is ridiculous, it's more like 40%.
@@chejedi8397 Reputable studies have found that about 75% of people with degrees in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) degrees do not work in their field of study.
I've found this to be true of most college graduates. Of 28 degreed engineering and technical staff I have working on one project, only one works in his field of study. The others migrated toward another field because, for one reason or another, the grass was greener on the other side of the fence.
Many people graduate and then find out that they do not care for the real world work in their chosen profession.
I graduated from college 53 years ago with a degree in Electrical Engineering. High school preparation for me included the sciences, which included Biology, chemistry and physics, mathematics which included algebra, geometry, immediate algebra with trig and advance algebra with a quarter introducing calculus. Also, I was assigned to take Latin for the language requirement. The course in geometry focused on problem dealing writing proofs so that we can develop deductive reasoning and logic. The mathematics that is taught in high schools in my state had been revised and I wonder if the revision watered down the demand that was given to us when we were in high school. Going to engineering college, we found out that problem solving was the major focus, and if you developed the ability to solve problems before entering college, you will do well in college. The biggest mistake was to memorize how the professor solved the sample problem instead of developing your own skills.
Discipline is important. Commitment is, too. Passion and curiosity underlie both. Find out what fuels you.
It's amazing how many students that have a problem with calc physics (let only the non-calc {business} physics), and think they can do a better job in engineering mechanics or thermodynamics. I helped to set the curve in my thermodynamics course (which my ME department used as one of the final weed-outs), and probably ended the dreams of a few students right then & there.
Emphasizing the need to learn math and science on your own! In high school, we did NOT go above and beyond the keynotes of the class. Commit!
I gave up on my Computer Science degree because tbh I wasn’t interested in it anymore. Programming was kicking my behind. Each time I went into the lab my anxiety level always went up. I just couldn’t do it anymore 🚮
What do you plan to do next?
What do you do now? Surprise no one talked you out of it.
I’m goin to Auburn in August! Glad they’re using ur book for us first years!
Yo same incoming auburn student 🤝
awesome! me too
I am currently a junior in computer engineering. When I was in high school, we had math and physics courses, but I didn’t feel adequately prepared when I transitioned to college. In 12th grade, instead of taking pre-calculus as originally planned, I ended up in a TSI Math prep course due to a new program they introduced. Looking back, I should have taken pre-calculus, but I didn’t.
However, I’m resilient. Knowing I would be pursuing a pre-engineering degree in college, I took it upon myself to study diligently. I took notes from textbooks and worked through problems in college algebra and topics from Calculus 1. This preparation really paid off when I eventually took those courses; without it, I likely would have struggled more or needed to repeat classes.
Interestingly, I’ve always done well in chemistry and physics, I read outside of classroom more.
I've found that the vast majority of engineering graduates are book worms and have no innate feel for real world engineering problems. I grew up around machinery and manufacturing environments. When I started as an engineer I rocketed ahead of my coworkers because of my real world previous experience.
as a German Electrical Engineer i can say the asian folks are a little bit ahead of us but also have an insane 10hours+ a day work ethic which makes the most difference - Tu Braunschweig
Most education focused families read to their kids, right? Starting as infants? Over time, we spend how much time reading to our kids? What if we spent as much time playing math games? I’m not talking flash cards…I mean genuinely enjoyable games involving math. As the kids get older, there are always ways to show math in our lives…shopping, estimating tip for dinner out, predicting when we will get there on a trip…
Always being aware what kids are learning in school, and reinforcing that.
Always making sure HW and classwork gets done. I recall discussions with other parents about HS, when my kids were in grade school. They talked about how stressed their kids were. It scared me, I did not want my kids to suffer due to stress. I figured the best way to prevent stress was to make sure they were prepared. Once kids are confident in math, they want to be in the advanced classses. For math, engineering and science, AP courses and college dual enrollment are a necessity. There is no substitute for preparation, and it literally starts when you have a child, if not before. There is no substitute. It’s 18 years of preparation. The American school system can get you there, but not by default. You need to take advantage of every opportunity, and there are many. Best of luck to those who want the best education for their children - it’s easy if you start early, and stay with it.
I left high school knowing calculus but hadn't taken physics as it wasn't offered. I took physics, with calculus, for the first time as a college freshman. The gap between high school and college was real. The prof threw out 3/4 of the class when the pencil dust from the final settled. One of those had taken AP physics. As for myself, I went on to double major in liberal art and engineering
One thing I always tell people is that high school teaches you the progression of math from one formula to another. College expects you to understand what you were taught and logically figure out what you weren't taught, even during an exam.
yea public schools suck here in the US. My school personally teaches us up to trig and if we want to take precalc we gotta dual enrool at a college. No chances of taking a actual calculus class until you get into college.
Aside from math for what I see is that teachers are expected to pander to the lowest grade student in public schools, so then a subject that would normally take 2 weeks takes 2 months. Even then some students still don't learn the subject because they
1) Dont care because they arent going to college and just need to pass.
2) Were pushed into the class because they passed the previous one, nevermind if they understood the concepts or not.
The only real way to fix this knowledge gap is to have more pressure on the students, esspecially from parents. Personally as sterotypical as it may seem i feel like Idian and Japanese school and parents are a good example of this. Sure its a bit too much but the students are still expected to succeced and so they do.
At the start of my junior year in ChE, we were told only 1/3 of the students would be allowed to proceed to being a senior. Those of us who survived that culling proved we were smart but it was the senior year that taught us to be engineers.
I’m not sure of what to think about letting more than 50% of freshman engineering students graduate. Your school should want above average talent graduates.
Reason is easy…. It’s hard. Hotel and Hospitality Management is easy and I can party for 4 years.
And it's boring as well.
Wow that’s crazy, I bought your book about 3 months ago and the algorithm has brought me to you through RUclips as well. Also crazy that the school that conducted this study is the school I’m going to next year for electrical engineering. Very wild set of coincidences that I will interpret as me being successful in engineering lol.
I love it! and I hope you are finding the book helpful.
While I found STEM in college not too bad, I went to a high-quality, public high school. The twist is that I’m essentially retired, so this was 40 years ago. Contrast that with my children, who were all educated in modern high-quality, public high schools, who struggled. Their schooling was so lax. It was hard for me to set necessary standards because all the teachers allowed late work and multiple attempts. “In my day…you did the work or you didn’t…if not handed in on time, then you’d get a zero.” It’s not that the classes themselves are easier (maybe they are that too), but there is no discipline instilled. It’s easier to get good grades while being able to slack.
I didn't make it 09. I've just finished up my first year back and while my math skills have deteriorated over the last 15 years, my life skills have improved so much that I feel more equipped than last time. I was that kid in high school that never developed study skill because HS was so easy to me and that just absolutely did not work once I started college.
I liked your thoughts on self-discipline. You are right. It is transferable. Thank you.
this is totally right, especially about taking responsibility for your own math/science education. when i was applying for college, SAT 2 (subject SATs) were still required, and since i was applying for engineering i wanted to take the math and physics SATs. the problem was i had never taken a physics class beyond algebra-based kinematics, and the SAT covered electricity and magnetism. teaching myself that physics for sure helped prepare me for college.
Every selective university made you take three subject tests. It's a shame they are gone now.
I'm really surprised by these results, because I didn't notice a jump in difficulty or demand between high school and college at all. I did take a lot of AP and dual credit, so maybe that's why - honestly I feel like AP is harder than most actual college courses I've taken - but even comparing with my few non-AP/dual credit classes, I didn't think the gap was that big. And my public high school was a pretty average performer, too.
What was your college major?
@@becominganengineer2271 Computer engineering - I graduate this fall.
Very good vid. I went to an internationally recognized engineering school in the central US. Very competitive and challenging; before you walked the stage you had 2 or 3 job offers. 90% of us were in the top 10% of our HS graduating class. And HS did not challenge us enough. Not as good in math and science as we could be but those to stayed to graduation rose to the challenge. I can't tell you how many were valedictorians and salutatorians who didn't make it to their junior year because they weren't willing to work, compete and overcome failure at such a higher level. I graduated with degrees in math and geology & geophysics and loved working with my engineering buddies. Those EE, ChemE, GeolE and ME were brilliant. Great engineers learned to approach a problem from multiple areas with all they had. And they were real human beings, not automatons.
Suggestions:
1. Take as many AP classes as possible in HS (they will never be at collage level but you will get your feet wet.)
2. Retake all the AP science and math classes your freshman year in college and really learn the material as you are really going to see it again.
3. Take a lower class load in collage (
I TOTALLY agree with you about High School College Prep!! I graduated with an Electrical Engineering degree 45 years ago and high school preparatory classes were no better at that time. I spent much of my freshman year taking remedial math classes because my high school did not offer analytic geometry or calculus 1 (this caused my BSEE to be extended to almost five years instead of four). I seriously doubt if any of the so-called math teachers in that school could even teach those classes anyway. Most kids can't even balance a checkbook after graduating from an American high school.
Here in Finland the most common reason is work. When you have some studies and work experience under your belt, it's the work experience that counts. So many end up working (and having successful careers) full time and not finishing their masters degree.
I went into electronics from not passing any high school exams. I succeeded because I was willing to put the time in to not only learn electronics but also the maths required. I came out of college with distinctions in my exams.
In my case (double E major in telecom engineering) half of my classmates disappeared when I graduated. Apart from the standard subjects such as high frequency, automation, semiconductor physics, computer programming language, I remember I still need to do materials science, maths, technical drawing, society and culture. The crucial thing is: all was done in German. I am a Chinese with no knowledge of German during my high school education. I graduated with above average scores.
I graduated in 2018, went straight into the workforce for about a year, realized it wasn't what I wanted to do. Since I knew I couldn't afford college, I joined the military. After finishing my first contract, I got out and started from the ground up (meaning I took developmental classes related to areas i struggled in) on my education because I already knew I did not have the math skills required for engineering. This was honestly the best thing I could have done because math is fundamental in all of your engineering classes. So, by not having to waste time figuring out how the teacher solved a particular problem, it's definitely an advantage. Along with some soft skills I learned from the military, like self-discipline and time management, among many.
The moral is anyone can become an engineer but if your not willing to put the work in to study and self identify problems areas you struggle in then by the 2nds semester or so youll be to far gone to recover because most classes built off the other and knowing the fundamentals is critical to understanding.
love this! thanks for telling your story. soft skills, discipline, and time management ... so crucial!
I am studying in Taiwan and our summer breaks are 2-2.5 months. The difference is that the students here choose to use that time for labs that they are interested in, but it’s not compulsory for bachelors degree.
This was along time ago, but I wonder if it still relevant? When I applied to Glasgow university to study engineering, the entry standards were quite high. Then I took a one year break. When I started, I found the entry standards had dropped significantly. I asked why and was told that, with the higher standards, the number of acceptable applicants was too low so they had dropped the standards to fill seats.
Sure enough, 100 of the 200 students in my first year class dropped out.
I was quite shocked that a university could arbitrarily do this to keep the money rolling in, while wasting a year for 100 young people.
UPRM operates in semesters. Each semester comprises a 15-week conference period and 1 to 2 weeks of finals. The Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering is a 5-year (i.e. 10 semesters) program with 160 credit-hours.
This is an absolute Great video and I think you are spot on with your analysis. Question: The SAT exam is designed to assess and level students Math skills since there are many differences of how students are prepared to start an Engineering curriculum. Do you think there is something missing in the SATs that doesn't identify readiness to attend Engineering school due to lack of math proficiency? Or maybe someone that scored high on the SAT math section just isn't ready for the extreme Engineering workload? On another topic I think Universities are aware of high school students not being prepared and offer excellent options for these students. Universities have set up partnerships with Community Colleges who build up student's math skills and provide opportunities to transfer into Engineering schools once students are ready. These programs are great! Final thought: When I entered an Engineering PhD program, as an American, I was the minority and students you mentioned from the math proficient countries were the majority. Great Videos! 🙂
Our graduating class in electrical engineering (year 1980) was only 20% of those starting out.
That's why with the shift of Stem students coming to American college from Europe to America in the 20th century to from Asia to America in the 21st century. I would recommend studying Stem in Europe or Asia then coming back to America for work.
i went to university of toronto in 1979 . back then we had high school to grade 13 not 12 . i was in electrical engineering . first semester was not too hard because of gr13 in high school. it was mostly a rehash . but the work load was greater and by second semester it got much harder. back then technology was primitive. my introduction to computing was fortran and using punch cards.
i can't imagine what it's like today with everyone having laptops and computing having revolutionized engineering. i'm sure the work load is much higher but, it can be, due to technology making so much more knowledge available and digestible.
A direct result of “NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND”.
this Chinese kid in my highschool after immigrating to here in Canada absolutely Dominated my entire highschool
I agree. I graduated in 1955 from one of the better public high schools in California. I made good grades with no effort at all. Then came engineering school at USC. I was swamped and not having good study habits, flunked a couple of courses. Eventually, I recovered enough to make it through with a rather low GPA. A few years later, I earned an MS in Physics from the Naval Postgraduate School and when I left the Navy, went on to earn an MS and PhD in EE from CalTech. Point being: I was never stupid, but was basically not properly educated in the public high school.
These degrees are quite difficult also there is stuff you can't teach you either get it or you don't. Even some academically competent people who graduate are hopeless engineers they end up going into management roles.
A lot of students think that they are top dogs in high school only to find out in college that they are just average. If you are pretty good at math, graduating college with an engineering degree should not be a problem. Purdue '55 sends.
Eighty-five percent of what they teach in electrical engineering is pure garbage. I spent most of time leaning about vacuum tubes when microchips that was being used at the time. Advance math was useless, most engineers don't even use much advance math I only use algebra once for an engineering calculation. I learned advanced math until I was very proficiend it was a total waste of time. Math teachers are there because engineering teachers and professors believe that advanced math is needed. Avanced math teachers are their because it's a jobs program for math teachers who otherwise can't get a real job. PE's or professional electrical engineers have you ever wondered why so many electrical engineers are PE's or professional electrical engineers? PE's or professional electrical engineers spend 90% of their time studying electrical engineering that they will use on the job. CAD-CAM is extremely useful and productive. Engineering teachers and professors absolutely cannot stand any piece of computer aided design or computer aided manufacturing or CAD-CAM because it makes electrical engineering easy and productive. Engineering teachers and professors prefer us to do electrical engineering designs on paper who uses that these days. Engineering teachers and professors are so outdated that they don't even know how to use CAD-CAM 3D additive manufacturing.
We're not talking about the usefulness of the stuff here though (which you're probably right about), we're talking about getting through it and getting that degree.
I had problems with the significant increase in requirements in Maths at University, My High School was not up to standard at all. However, I managed to graduate with a BE(Elect) but with a struggle due to lack of fundamental education at High School
For me at Iowa state I have found that the exchange students do about average at least for my class in the aerospace department. I have been surprised how many kids have been coming in staring calc 3 or dif eq their freshman year. But I will agree, my highschool years did not prep me that well to study engineering for the math side. But anyways lets hope I make it through these next few years.
Also I was doing calc hw when listing to this and the second you said Iowa state I rose my head like huhhh lol.
I am a retired EE (I got an MSEE at 39) I have taught electronics, and communication electronics at the Junior college level (Vocational vice engineering track). I am amazed at how bad my students are at math. I wish I could fix this.
There aren't enough quality teachers. They all quit. US school system is a mess.
I'm in Australia and was doing a mechanical engineering degree, but had to drop out in the 2nd year as I just couldn't do the maths. And it wasn't even the the more difficult stuff. 😢
I would strongly suggest learning how to use Microsoft Word effectively as well! Huge help!
Long time engineer here, was not great in high school but I was fortunate enough to attend junior college to prepare myself for transferring to a four year university. Actually it took me four years at JC to prepare even though I still struggled later at the university. And yes I spent a lot of time on math and science that I should have done earlier years which makes sense of those students that tackled such subjects earlier would then not get so hung up on basic concepts in advanced classes. I also feel I should have better prepared myself with English classes such as reading and writing. Because engineering classes demand be able to read high level textbooks and able to write good reports. And as a working engineer I have to read a lot of reports and data sheets plus write tons of emails and reports.
I was watching a different video and RUclips algorithm suggested me this one to watch. I love engineering and anything related to it. I am graduated now with a Master Degree in Electrical Engineering. I am very grateful that I had the opportunity to come to the US and finish my education. One of the best country in the world. Like the author of the video say it takes a lot of effort and determination to be successful in engineering. The math is strongly heavy in Electrical engineering. One of the reasons I was successful was because I love mathematics and I was not bad at it. Also I did not stop learning things on my own. Anything that I thought that would help me to be successful I would a way to study it.
If you are from the US knows that you are living in a great country. The only left is just have a goal about type of engineering you want to be and study real hard for it you won’t regret it. Even after you got done you will be still learning and tested at job place. You will be a given a project that your organization will rely on you to deliver. So take it seriously and know that the journey is long and you can be a great engineer if you are dedicated.
Be strong in mathematics and understand it.
50% that’s pretty good, my class started with ~150 and 17 of us graduated. Sadly, what I’m seeing is companies are giving engineering titles to individuals that don’t have engineering degrees - not good for those with actual degrees or for safety & innovation. Would like to hear your take on that subject?
50%, ha. I still remember my first day of Freshman Engineering at Iowa State. Almost his very first words, the prof says "Look left, look right", one of you will drop out, one of you will switch to an easier college, one of you will become an Engineer. Which will you be?" PS, don't blame your high school, I went to a lousy rural school, not a single AP or IB class offered -- sure preparation helps, but it's really about are you willing to put in the effort -- do you have the drive to "win".
Yeah, this was common practice in our day. I remember hearing that while one of my high school classmates was sitting next to me in a Sophomore engineering class. He only lasted another couple of days. The common path was to Mech/Chem/Nucl/Elec/Aero Engr --> Industrial Engr. --> Business.
It's simple. College isn't about teaching people. It's about getting through the subject matter by the arbitrary deadline whether the students are learning it or not.
You asked for our input and if it aligns with your findings: I studied some engineering (a year of Aero/Astro [5 subjects rolled into one] and one course in Mech E) and a ton of Math. In engineering, most were either Korean or Japanese. 90% were male. One guy started his freshman year at the age of 15 after having done several years of Math and Physics at Ohio State while in High School! He was Korean. I majored in Math with a primary focus on Theoretical Math taking many graduate level classes. Most students in Pure Math were from Germany or Russia, I think I remember one student from India, but no other Asians and not a single female. Of all the students I met that couldn't pass but still wanted to graduate, doing the typical switch of majors to Political Science when failing out, none were Asian.
And finally, it's not just the high schools here that fall short. Many colleges do too. I have met many Germans that finished their Abitur (equivalent to a high school diploma) that are to an embarrassing level smarter and more educated than most college grads here in the U.S.
35+ years working in industry since I graduated, have mentored and recruited many engineers.
If you get past 2nd semester calculus (typically integration) and dynamic physics & really understand those topics, you will graduate.
It’s really that simple, and those classes are really that important.
From my experience, you're right. Public high school didn't prepare me for engineering in a top 10 university. Failed my first course ever in the first semester. I've gotten used to it though and I'm mostly caught up to everyone else who found things obvious I've never heard of. Why does no one try to help american high school students get caught up to the rest of the world though?
I am in college for engineering and I am recently struggling with course like calculus and physics. when I was in high school my school didn't have no physics class to offer and there was no CCP class to provided either except for English 101 that is the only thing am glad I took. But now with calc based physics class it is very hard understand the concepts because I didn't have the basic physics in high school. I know for sure if I was in high school in other country I learn physics as a mandatory class. High schools in other country take physics course starting for 7th-12 grade in every single school. I took physics in 7th grade before I came to the US and never seen physics until now. I don't know why in the USA physics is not mandatory class you have to take in high school at list once, while its mandatory to take 4 English class in high school.
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much appreciated
My son was the valedictorian at a public high school and still had to "dual-enroll" with a local college and take college level calculus classes while in 12th grade and got in to Cornell. Graduated in Elect. & Computer Engineering in 2012.
It is Maths, Maths, Maths. For a three years or four years engineering courses you study mostly Maths for the for first and second years. For the final years more maths in your specialisation options.
In essence your mastery of Maths should be at least 80 percentile before entering engineering degree.
While, I am in general agreement with your comments have a sightly different spin. In the early 1980's, I earned my B.S. degree in Electrical Engineering and at my college you start with calculus for engineers, then afterward, you take three more advanced math classes. So, for students who had High School calculus they had an advantage over students who, only had high school trigonometry and were now, seeing calculus for the very first time. Also, at my college, you start taking classes in your subject major during both your freshman and sophomore years. Therefore, by the time, I was a junior about 50 percent of my class had transferred out of the Engineering School and into the Technology School where, they earned their degrees in Electrical and Electronics Technology (smile...smile).
This resonates with me. Just uploaded the final revision of my Masters Thesis - in Artificial Intelligence about two weeks ago (at age 57). Last serious school work before this as MSc CS from Boston University in 1993. If anyone had really explained how much math was in the AI program before I had started, that would have been a hard no.
While I wait on final grades from University of Leeds, I can say it was really different from years ago. Everything remote, no doubt enabled by COVID.
Here is an example from the past. My senior year in high school was 1973-1974, Norwalk, CT. I took calculus, computer science, and probability & statistics. I repeated calculus in college but I had a better background for college level math. I eventually graduated from UC Berkeley in physics and then mechanical engineering. I had a 30 year engineering career at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. I retired at 55. It definitely helps to have a good high school education. I’m not at all familiar with today’s high school educational quality. Work hard and good luck.
I'm from a rural US school high school and too all of the science and math I could. I blew through HS. The first quarter in college was a disaster.
I figured out that I had to work twice as hard as every one else to accomplish the work. I probably had a learning disability and just got through HS on being smart.
My biggest strength was being stubborn. When i was almost kicked out of college, I decided they weren't going to stop me.
I was born in Taiwan. At the age 15 in early 1980's I came to the US. During my high school years in Northern California, I was repeating Algebra, Geometry, pre-calculus, Physics, Chemistry and Biology courses that I had already taken in my Taiwanese middle school. I mostly focused on English (from English as a second language to regular 12th grade English), US History/ Government and Calculus courses in American high school. I scored 800 on my SAT math but only 550+ on English. Now I am retired. I am thankful that my middle school in Taiwan gave me an excellent science/math education.
It requires a lot of math, science and specialized courses and most universitys are not set up for this multi disipline study. The job prospects are also limited as most private companies want you to go into management as soon as posible and most engineers don't want this.
Bangladeshi engineering student here, here, we do have some advanced match classes that are supposed to be taught in high school (Equivalent), but most teachers are really lousy at doing their job. We even have some math courses that are offered by the university in the early years just to prepare you for the later years of engineering. It is a bit luck based on who will take your class.
The most helpful thing we can do is learn the stuff online. We actually learn about 80% of our stuff online, sine most of our teachers are, lets say, not the most optimal......
I reason i didn't graduate is because of a health condition. I quit after 2 years and i couldn't attend many classes and had a hell lot to supply exams to clear
I put myself through graduate school in engineering in the US by working as a graduate teaching assistant. Lucky me, I was tasked with teaching the weeding out courses, Statics and Dynamics. Most students could not get past this barrier and dropped out and went to B-school. Most of us are not cut out for STEM fields. I also think the percentage of dropouts is much higher than 50%.
i didn't realize that graduation rate was so low. I got a BS in ChE, MS in SysEng, MS in EngMgt. But my grades for the first one wasn't as high as in HS . i blame being away from home for the first time and an 18 y/o drinking age. That was in the early 80s.
It's because half of all high school students are performing below average!
I work in a magnet high school. I see kids who talk about being an engineer, but they avoid the tough math and science classes. At the same time my son attends a different magnet school with a very demanding academic program. He will be a senior next year. He’s on his second year of calculus and next year has cd calculus and statistics as an elective. He also had algebra based physics and will have calculus based physics senior year. I will say that the math curriculum in America needs a lot of work. For algebra the classes should be two hours instead of one. More time to soak it in. Geometry should be an extended class, with trig taught as a separate one semester class. The college option diploma should require 6 units of math, not four.
Best thing my engineer daughter ever did was take college pre calculus in high school. It helped her ACT score and she could start her freshman year in calculus 1 with confidence.
In Connecticut, back in the 70's, there were certain high school criteria just to be CONSIDERED for college. Now, they don't even have to be able to read.