as a solo dev thats kind of how I view it unironically, but also my only reason to live is making games. I dont really view it as a career moreso I was put on this planet to do it, so it being the sole reason I don't do other things like making friends or exercising etc isn't crazy to me.
Even being an indie can be rough if making games is your sole source of income. Sometimes you end up in a weird spiral of making other games in order to have enough money to make the game you actually want to make.
@callsignapollo_ probably why he said ad a hobby. If you're game blows up than HOORAY! Career Goals! If not, then it's a learning experience. Scott Cawthon made like 10 other games b4 blowing up with FNAF
@ninjahedgehog5 FNAF was also his last game effort before giving up entirely. If it hadnt blown up, he wouldve quit making games and gone back to some other day job, because he was out of the cash he had saved up to make games as a full-time thing. Which, ironically, was exactly the kind of situation i was referring to
It feels bad that my goal to make a video game is “go to college and get a degree in another field, have a stable job that pays me enough to not have to work myself to the bone and then, years later, work on games as a side hobby”
if you want it to be a side hobby, then start now!, learning bit by bit and do stuff in your free time, on your own pace, is way better long-term rather than waiting to start to the ideal condition
The hobby time with a fresh idea is the sweetest it'll ever be. When a project scales up it turns into a different beast and it's trying no matter what. Making games as a hobby is really the most satisfying overall because you can commit to a process you enjoy. Enjoy it, you'll be surprised how much you'll miss it if you do make something that takes off elsewhere or end up working professionally.
Literally two of my three (3) housemates went to school for game design (1) and video game programming (2), got into Microsoft QA for big AAA titles and after 3 years burnt out and never wanna work in games ever again. The two now work for Bad Dragon making adult toys and are very happy and making so much more money. Meanwhile I went to school for art and got into game industry and have been in here for 6 years just fine thank fully. Lots of great facts and advice in this episode.
I’m close friends with a few ppl who worked in the games industry but had to pivot to other jobs just because it’s not mentally or financially stable. It’s terrible that schools are even offering game design degrees and programs at all; they’re massive scams and not everyone who gets one will be lucky enough to be able to get work elsewhere and pay off their student debt.
Have any advise for fellow artists getting into the game industry? I'm focusing on concept art right now, but I'm well versed enough to do other illustration work as well as some 3D.
Turning 18 and wanting to become a musician in the climate of the current creator economy kinda feels like being recruited to war while the front lines are retreating. Very fun feeling
Doesn't help with the number of "I post music to my Spotify and I'm waiting for it to gain traction, and by music I mean AI generated beats" accounts I've seen in various comment sections.
I also post music under this account and it's just as doom and gloom as the games industry. Exept with us it's all about getting people to actually give a shit with our increasingly shrinking attention spans
Oh, so you need to tell me a creative industry is really unstable and stressful? That it can leave you empty and unfulfilled, while working for a soulless corporation that monetizes your passion, while the other option is independent madness? Well I guess it’s time to look into my other passion - animation…hey wait a minute!
This episode reminds me of one of the first animation gigs I ever had when I was hired as one of two people to animate entire scenes in a week for a 15 minute animated short, In full animation, and the guy in charge was not an animator, and would have us redo shit constantly. If i could like, time travel, I'd skedaddle, but there’s so much ego as a young artist invested in proving yourself despite not having the experience you need. Good episode.
Oh boy the stories industry insiders have. on specifically WHY AAA games turn out the way they do. Yes, many devs know how the game is going to be received poorly when they work on it
Glad this was the first Final V3 I've listened to. I'm a recent graduate in games (3D artist) and man, I'm really just trying to figure out what best career to pivot to right now. Not saying I'll never want to work in games, I just want a job right now that will actually let me in, and won't kill me for doing so. Lots of good info and advice in this one, I'm still struggling with guilt and inadequacy with having a degree in something that I'm not able to get a job in, so it helped to hear that it's actually good to have a "day job" and work on personal projects, until it might lead into you finding a slot in the industry to fit in.
exactly it's every part of the entertainment industry. i used to see it with background actors who spend tons of money on their own wardrobes to get a chance at fame and a $60 pay check. society thinks people who work in entertainment don't deserve respect. i know because i've been an entertainer since i was a toddler.
It's basically all or nothing. Either you're one of the few mega celebs in the specific entertainment industry and have it ALL... or you're not and have nothing.
Sad thing is, the PRIZE for WINNING that battle is just more salt mines and disposability. Forget onboarding to a company. Just find your team/friends and plop out some hot fun garbage and see what happens. TIGSource in the 2010s was this place. I loved it.
10:25 Stardew Valley was made entirely by one person over the course of 5 years. However, Eric Barone had a TON of time and money, and had a very.. unhealthy work ethic.
@@fearingalma1550 Yep. Stardew Valley is a masterpiece and ended up being wildly successful, but I cannot deny that that was a HUGE red flag. She must have really believed in the project.
Ughh. The myth of the solo dev. I hate how it's not real but how it's simultaneously a beacon of hope for those of us who can't put a team together. It's scary to work with other devs, strangers, when you're just trying to make what you want. Friends can't always be there, since they are probably in the same boat. Why should I work on stuff I don't really care about if I have a full time job and other responsibilities? The answer is that it's probably better to not work on what you really care about. Instead grind away helping others to get skills ans connections. Only probablem is how much patience and endurance that takes. None of this is intuitive and is also very stressful.
I love hearing 1:12:55 the two completely opposite reactions to someone confidently saying they doubled their workload for a game because of an incredibly petty personal preference. Kino.
What you are describing is the tech world environment that I have been working in for the last 8 years. You can't keep a job because no employer is loyal to their employees AND there are definitely companies that made you less employable than no experience. I think times are changing to a no great time.
Less employable can happen? Is this sort of like tech where if you have FAANG experience a few smaller companies think you would be too ambitious? Or is it more like most companies don't want to hire from sweatshops?
@@parus8798 in a previous episode, they mentioned some studios have such notoriously bad practices that when people move to other studios, they have to take the time to unlearn those bad habits in order to not destroy the workflow of the team. Not to mention awful company culture *cough actiblizz cough* causing interpersonal conflicts at times
1:12:55 RJ should work for Sonic Team. Every single linear level in the last few Sonic games has had a unique music track. Sonic Frontiers and Forces had about 30 linear stages each and most of them were a minute long to play but each had two minutes of original music, and then there's boss fights, incidental music like menu screens, and in Frontiers the entire other half of the game, the open-world gameplay, with many tracks per map there too. The FREE DLC for that game has its own OST with 46 more tracks. It's actually ridiculous how nobody at Sega has ever made the entirely reasonable suggestion to cut costs at Sonic Team by comissioning less than 110+ tracks for each game's OST. It's unbelievable that almost all of that output slaps.
no bullshit me being a born and bred sonic fan from go (my parents' wedding gift to one another was a sega genesis with sonic 1) and playing sonic cd and sonic 3 back to back at a hugely impressionable age probably has a fuckload to do with this
in general I've treated it like how it was suggested in the video. Couldn't get into the games industry initially after college, so joined volunteer projects to work with other people. Poached one of the members who knew programming that I jived with the most in that, and have been doing our first project together in our own time outside of our full time jobs. In-between I've tackled working with different volunteer teams for game jams, working in solar/fabrication, and now about to start a job working as a print tech to potentially climb a corporate ladder in my hometown. Right now for the most part I've been trying and talking to people online who like solving games as a problem, and hanging out with people just in general to how I was in high school. Still stressed as fuck, never able to feel like having enough time to do the things I want, but I'm able to survive and at least have something to show for myself.
I literally got into research on climate change by sending personal emails at random labs and researchers groups that I have an Erasmus internship and I like their work, thus would you please let me in. Ended up in the Nordics (which is huge for the subject and also for an undergraduate) and then I started working there like crazy, tried to involve myself with the group as a researcher instead of an intern and even though they had no job to offer me they did all they could to network me into a position. Literally just by bothering random strangers.
This is nice to hear for as dreadful as it was in the beginning of college, and can be currently nearly 2 months before the “finishline” (or 40 miles behind another starting line who knows) Perhaps my fear is that I have been watching all these game dev talks and taking all these drawing courses and books and lectures etc. and all fueled towards gaming, animation, comic books and graphic novels because that’s what fueled me as a kid with their life lessons and magical story telling. To think outside that box while adapting using those very tools you’ve been honing is scary because it feels like walking without a beaten path. But the alternative has a plethora of people saying how terrible the pay, hours, and abuse is. Both are scary, but I can’t tell the future. I can only listen to myself, my peers, and people within these industries and try and make the best decisions in between. So again thank you for the incite
This has the same vibes of a support therapy group. Very enjoyable though. Anyway you probably already know this but in this industry, functionally the same dynamics happen even in foreign countries almost bit by bit...
Thanks for reminding me of the game I drew stuff for almost a decade ago, whose main developer vanished off of twitter at the start of the pandemic [but not before slagging off his previous composer for spurious reasons]. Half the reason I don't do revenue share is because of that guy.
I was talking to a singer of a Christian rock band a couple of years back (long story) and the one major piece of advice he gave (for starting a band specifically, but I feel like this applies everywhere) was to get a group of like-minded people to work with, people you can vibe with creatively. Basically he told me to make friends if I want to make it in the entertainment industry. An impossible task.
First time listener here. Really enjoyed this episode! As someone outside the games industry but still working in big tech, a lot of this sounds familiar, especially the "be careful of people with big ideas and no plans of how to execute them". This is crazy common in big tech corps. I've worked almost 10 years now in the industry and I feel like I've spent almost half of that time working on random "ideas" instead of projects with plans. And, of course, those are ALWAYS the worst projects. They tend to transform into projects where developers are expected to make every decision as a community, and eventually the "idea" turns into just a hodge-podge of features that don't go well together at all. Whacko stuff. Thanks for the reassurance that this is common and I'm not crazy lol.
My favorite podcast to listen to, and hear the noises in my ears while I play the podcast with my phone with my earbuds in my ears, hearing the noises.. in my ears.
I'm currently in my 3rd year in a game programming course, and from my (limited) view it's kind of an impossible choice with the games industry when you really enjoy making games. Working with other talented people to make something cool is an intoxicating experience, with all the agile processes, difficulties and inevitable crunch feeling worth it for what you get to make. Obviously this is something of a safety net, where students get to play the part of product owners and scrum masters alongside their discipline-specific game work - my experiences do not include being under the boot of some corporate bigwigs. Even so, I can't imagine leaving behind the mess of game development, even if it was rife with crunch and difficulty. It's just too fun. Maybe that's a bright-eyed opinion that will fade when I actually enter the industry. Other than taking the risky plunge into an indie studio startup as a graduate, I just don't see any other way.
Sam here - yeahhhh, I def get where you're coming from. Intoxicating is a great word for it. I think a lot of the key here comes down to agency. In the crudest terms, f-cking yourself over for a higher goal, eyes wide open, putting that brick on the gas pedal and leaning in, with a stake whatever happens on the other side - however unhealthy - can be absolutely exhilarating. Being f-cked over, while poorly compensated, by a bunch of people who cut your brakes (and own your car), _without the upside_, can be terrifying. (There's a spectrum, but these are the ends.) So if we wanna push the field forward, and give players new experiences that deserve to exist- we gotta do the work of carving human spaces out of this mechanical industry. (As Dan mentioned, in a different environment, those devs went on to make Alien Isolation!) Be ambitious and kind, and _look out for each other_. Eyes wide open!
I'm glad i'm doing gamedev as a hobby. Maybe one day i'll get to do gamedev fulltime, but i'm not sacrificing my idealism or my worklife balance to do it.
You guys always manage to say something ridiculously profound about creativity and i both love you for it and despise the fact that YOU came up with that insight and I, also a creative person, didn't
BTW thanks for making this podcast. I dont know who any of you are but ive been listening since the first episode and its been great! Love to hear a podcast about game development!
There's something cathartic about hearing other devs feel burnt out from the unrelenting engine of AAA Game Dev. The only other time I get to hear this stuff is at GDC lol. People really need to understand how bad this place can be before they get in. I've been considering leaving the industry myself after working for a little over 3 years in the industry in AAA and being treated like crap. Indie has always been my personal goal, but who knows if I can make the transition like it sounds some of you have. It's a huge risk to jump into indie dev with no connections in the space, and I worry a lot of currently popular youtubers are leading some people astray making it sound much easier than it really is.
omg julianoodle i love this goddamn podcast so much dont ever stop and more importantly dont ever get burnt out or tired of it because its so perfect also "Dont ever be like 'i can do this in a week' its so unhealthy" *cut to sexfm flashbacks*
It shows that you're truly passionate and you want to defy all odds, proving an evil world wrong. It won't be easy, but with the proper discipline, you can make this a reality.
ever since i finished homestuck i have yet to consume a piece of media that at some point does not have a homestuck reference and i am distraught at this
Hi, anime animator here, you have no idea how true hearing about how anime work gets exploited on the daily if it wasn't for the worker shortage so they would get in contact with people overseas
I'm glad that I only dev games for fun, solo. I almost dread the idea of one of my projects taking off, then I'd have to live up to that lightning in a bottle. I hope to maybe make enough from my passion projects to buy a few pizzas, lol. (To be fair, I'd make games for free, but I feel like not charging anything would devalue the games in the eyes of the players). Definitely sad that it's so hard for people to make a stable living doing what they love, though. Much respect to all you guys!
This was me wanting to write for games for god knows how long. I’ve had to pivot many times and realize that wanting to make a game is a small group effort, or just a me thing over a decade.
Every time I see a video like this it actually has some weird opposite effect. Like a chinese finger trap. E: Ahh shit 43:20 I have other interests too though.
Not only should you not not enter any creative industry you should not even do it as a hobby, in fact if you know anyone doing either STOP THEM DONT LET THEM EVEN IF YOU DONT KNOW THEM
In college for game dev, and I'm kinda wondering what the hell I wanna do afterwards. I definitely don't want to get into AAA development (I decided that even before watching this video), and I definitely don't have the funds (nor courage) to open my own studio. No funds is also why I'm waiting 'til the tail-end of my current project to get assistance with things I straight up cannot do (translations and voice sfx).
Yeah that’s kinda where I’m at, a lot of the indie companies like New Blood and Night Dive want people with 5 years of industry experience too, it’s tricky to navigate
Also Cave Story was like his 5th or so game, all of his previous games were simpler and smaller - like GUXT, or all the preview versions of Kero Blaster.
Did you know that if you do not eat and you do not drink and you do not move and you do not breathe, it would give more time for game development
if you pay your developers less it gives you more budget for game development :D
if you do not leave the office and dont have any personal possessions or housing to worry about, it will give more time for game development :3
If you were raised on nothing but a computer and disregarded any social obligations and hygiene, you would have more time for game development
as a solo dev thats kind of how I view it unironically, but also my only reason to live is making games. I dont really view it as a career moreso I was put on this planet to do it, so it being the sole reason I don't do other things like making friends or exercising etc isn't crazy to me.
Every 60 seconds a minute passes in Africa
Do not enter the games "industry", but do make games as a hobby. It's pretty fun once you take "investors" and "executives" out of the equation.
Even being an indie can be rough if making games is your sole source of income. Sometimes you end up in a weird spiral of making other games in order to have enough money to make the game you actually want to make.
@callsignapollo_ probably why he said ad a hobby. If you're game blows up than HOORAY! Career Goals! If not, then it's a learning experience. Scott Cawthon made like 10 other games b4 blowing up with FNAF
@ninjahedgehog5 FNAF was also his last game effort before giving up entirely. If it hadnt blown up, he wouldve quit making games and gone back to some other day job, because he was out of the cash he had saved up to make games as a full-time thing. Which, ironically, was exactly the kind of situation i was referring to
@@callsignapollo_ Then don't make it your sole source of income. Art can come from anywhere.
It feels bad that my goal to make a video game is “go to college and get a degree in another field, have a stable job that pays me enough to not have to work myself to the bone and then, years later, work on games as a side hobby”
You don't have to wait years to start making games, you just might have to work on smaller, simpler games that don't take a lot of time.
This is my plan exactly. Unless the game industry magically becomes a great place to work in the next few years
if you want it to be a side hobby, then start now!, learning bit by bit and do stuff in your free time, on your own pace, is way better long-term rather than waiting to start to the ideal condition
@@code_Bread This is smart. Very adult. Program business software by day, use those skills to be a failed gamedev at night. Welcome to the club.
The hobby time with a fresh idea is the sweetest it'll ever be. When a project scales up it turns into a different beast and it's trying no matter what. Making games as a hobby is really the most satisfying overall because you can commit to a process you enjoy. Enjoy it, you'll be surprised how much you'll miss it if you do make something that takes off elsewhere or end up working professionally.
Oh NOW you tell me
i littarly graduated on a video game music degree yesterday. fr fr
@@charlesgreenberg6956graduated in may 🤧 good luck
I’m graduating next semester
I get my associates in game dev this month lol
@@charlesgreenberg6956 ay conngrats dude
Literally two of my three (3) housemates went to school for game design (1) and video game programming (2), got into Microsoft QA for big AAA titles and after 3 years burnt out and never wanna work in games ever again. The two now work for Bad Dragon making adult toys and are very happy and making so much more money.
Meanwhile I went to school for art and got into game industry and have been in here for 6 years just fine thank fully.
Lots of great facts and advice in this episode.
Heh, I got an art degree and I'm recently getting into game development. :3
I’m close friends with a few ppl who worked in the games industry but had to pivot to other jobs just because it’s not mentally or financially stable. It’s terrible that schools are even offering game design degrees and programs at all; they’re massive scams and not everyone who gets one will be lucky enough to be able to get work elsewhere and pay off their student debt.
adult toys?
Have any advise for fellow artists getting into the game industry? I'm focusing on concept art right now, but I'm well versed enough to do other illustration work as well as some 3D.
How does 3 years of game dev lead to a job at Bad Dragon? What useful skills carry over??
Turning 18 and wanting to become a musician in the climate of the current creator economy kinda feels like being recruited to war while the front lines are retreating. Very fun feeling
Doesn't help with the number of "I post music to my Spotify and I'm waiting for it to gain traction, and by music I mean AI generated beats" accounts I've seen in various comment sections.
I also post music under this account and it's just as doom and gloom as the games industry. Exept with us it's all about getting people to actually give a shit with our increasingly shrinking attention spans
@scrittle Yeah it's rough out here...
no but guys, I'LL be the exception!!
Oh, so you need to tell me a creative industry is really unstable and stressful? That it can leave you empty and unfulfilled, while working for a soulless corporation that monetizes your passion, while the other option is independent madness? Well I guess it’s time to look into my other passion - animation…hey wait a minute!
This episode reminds me of one of the first animation gigs I ever had when I was hired as one of two people to animate entire scenes in a week for a 15 minute animated short, In full animation, and the guy in charge was not an animator, and would have us redo shit constantly. If i could like, time travel, I'd skedaddle, but there’s so much ego as a young artist invested in proving yourself despite not having the experience you need. Good episode.
Oh boy the stories industry insiders have.
on specifically WHY AAA games turn out the way they do.
Yes, many devs know how the game is going to be received poorly when they work on it
oh boy oh boy oh boy my fovarite noises have returned
Great time to be peaking.
Glad this was the first Final V3 I've listened to. I'm a recent graduate in games (3D artist) and man, I'm really just trying to figure out what best career to pivot to right now. Not saying I'll never want to work in games, I just want a job right now that will actually let me in, and won't kill me for doing so. Lots of good info and advice in this one, I'm still struggling with guilt and inadequacy with having a degree in something that I'm not able to get a job in, so it helped to hear that it's actually good to have a "day job" and work on personal projects, until it might lead into you finding a slot in the industry to fit in.
That's crazy that people who Made the Harry Potter EA games, went on to make Alien Isolation.
That level of oppression those people faced is insane.
This was the most validating thing i've listened to after such an AWFUL year as a game dev. I needed this more then i thought
I love that the listener count is STILL going down.
What do you think happens when the last listener gets it?
@@Sir_Bucketgets it implies they're being hunted down
@@mzov_1724 I mean we did lost a private healthcare CEO last week...
@Sir_Bucket negative number
exactly it's every part of the entertainment industry. i used to see it with background actors who spend tons of money on their own wardrobes to get a chance at fame and a $60 pay check. society thinks people who work in entertainment don't deserve respect. i know because i've been an entertainer since i was a toddler.
It's basically all or nothing.
Either you're one of the few mega celebs in the specific entertainment industry and have it ALL... or you're not and have nothing.
People has less money to spend, big corps taken big market place so money doesn't reach small developers that much.
Sad thing is, the PRIZE for WINNING that battle is just more salt mines and disposability.
Forget onboarding to a company. Just find your team/friends and plop out some hot fun garbage and see what happens.
TIGSource in the 2010s was this place. I loved it.
10:25 Stardew Valley was made entirely by one person over the course of 5 years. However, Eric Barone had a TON of time and money, and had a very.. unhealthy work ethic.
His wife was also working full time to support the both of them
@@fearingalma1550 Yep. Stardew Valley is a masterpiece and ended up being wildly successful, but I cannot deny that that was a HUGE red flag. She must have really believed in the project.
Ughh. The myth of the solo dev. I hate how it's not real but how it's simultaneously a beacon of hope for those of us who can't put a team together. It's scary to work with other devs, strangers, when you're just trying to make what you want. Friends can't always be there, since they are probably in the same boat. Why should I work on stuff I don't really care about if I have a full time job and other responsibilities? The answer is that it's probably better to not work on what you really care about. Instead grind away helping others to get skills ans connections. Only probablem is how much patience and endurance that takes. None of this is intuitive and is also very stressful.
I love hearing 1:12:55 the two completely opposite reactions to someone confidently saying they doubled their workload for a game because of an incredibly petty personal preference. Kino.
What you are describing is the tech world environment that I have been working in for the last 8 years. You can't keep a job because no employer is loyal to their employees AND there are definitely companies that made you less employable than no experience. I think times are changing to a no great time.
Less employable can happen? Is this sort of like tech where if you have FAANG experience a few smaller companies think you would be too ambitious? Or is it more like most companies don't want to hire from sweatshops?
@@parus8798 Amazon is the main example, they have a terribly toxic work culture
@@parus8798 in a previous episode, they mentioned some studios have such notoriously bad practices that when people move to other studios, they have to take the time to unlearn those bad habits in order to not destroy the workflow of the team. Not to mention awful company culture *cough actiblizz cough* causing interpersonal conflicts at times
@@parus8798 Yes. In my experience it was both, one instance for the former and another for the latter.
I heard someone say that game industry is an enterntainment industry that acts like a tech industry
1:12:55 RJ should work for Sonic Team. Every single linear level in the last few Sonic games has had a unique music track. Sonic Frontiers and Forces had about 30 linear stages each and most of them were a minute long to play but each had two minutes of original music, and then there's boss fights, incidental music like menu screens, and in Frontiers the entire other half of the game, the open-world gameplay, with many tracks per map there too. The FREE DLC for that game has its own OST with 46 more tracks.
It's actually ridiculous how nobody at Sega has ever made the entirely reasonable suggestion to cut costs at Sonic Team by comissioning less than 110+ tracks for each game's OST. It's unbelievable that almost all of that output slaps.
no bullshit me being a born and bred sonic fan from go (my parents' wedding gift to one another was a sega genesis with sonic 1) and playing sonic cd and sonic 3 back to back at a hugely impressionable age probably has a fuckload to do with this
tbh the heart and soul of a Sonic game is always the music, that's why the fans put up with the bullshit
@fearingalma1550 the fans put up with the bullshit because some of the games are good dude
in general I've treated it like how it was suggested in the video. Couldn't get into the games industry initially after college, so joined volunteer projects to work with other people. Poached one of the members who knew programming that I jived with the most in that, and have been doing our first project together in our own time outside of our full time jobs.
In-between I've tackled working with different volunteer teams for game jams, working in solar/fabrication, and now about to start a job working as a print tech to potentially climb a corporate ladder in my hometown. Right now for the most part I've been trying and talking to people online who like solving games as a problem, and hanging out with people just in general to how I was in high school.
Still stressed as fuck, never able to feel like having enough time to do the things I want, but I'm able to survive and at least have something to show for myself.
I legit started planning a mock portfolio for game concept art yesterday, guess it's the coal mines for me
I literally got into research on climate change by sending personal emails at random labs and researchers groups that I have an Erasmus internship and I like their work, thus would you please let me in.
Ended up in the Nordics (which is huge for the subject and also for an undergraduate) and then I started working there like crazy, tried to involve myself with the group as a researcher instead of an intern and even though they had no job to offer me they did all they could to network me into a position. Literally just by bothering random strangers.
This is nice to hear for as dreadful as it was in the beginning of college, and can be currently nearly 2 months before the “finishline” (or 40 miles behind another starting line who knows)
Perhaps my fear is that I have been watching all these game dev talks and taking all these drawing courses and books and lectures etc. and all fueled towards gaming, animation, comic books and graphic novels because that’s what fueled me as a kid with their life lessons and magical story telling.
To think outside that box while adapting using those very tools you’ve been honing is scary because it feels like walking without a beaten path. But the alternative has a plethora of people saying how terrible the pay, hours, and abuse is. Both are scary, but I can’t tell the future.
I can only listen to myself, my peers, and people within these industries and try and make the best decisions in between.
So again thank you for the incite
This has the same vibes of a support therapy group. Very enjoyable though. Anyway you probably already know this but in this industry, functionally the same dynamics happen even in foreign countries almost bit by bit...
Thanks for reminding me of the game I drew stuff for almost a decade ago, whose main developer vanished off of twitter at the start of the pandemic [but not before slagging off his previous composer for spurious reasons].
Half the reason I don't do revenue share is because of that guy.
I was talking to a singer of a Christian rock band a couple of years back (long story) and the one major piece of advice he gave (for starting a band specifically, but I feel like this applies everywhere) was to get a group of like-minded people to work with, people you can vibe with creatively. Basically he told me to make friends if I want to make it in the entertainment industry. An impossible task.
Do not enter the animation industry either.
First time listener here. Really enjoyed this episode! As someone outside the games industry but still working in big tech, a lot of this sounds familiar, especially the "be careful of people with big ideas and no plans of how to execute them". This is crazy common in big tech corps. I've worked almost 10 years now in the industry and I feel like I've spent almost half of that time working on random "ideas" instead of projects with plans. And, of course, those are ALWAYS the worst projects. They tend to transform into projects where developers are expected to make every decision as a community, and eventually the "idea" turns into just a hodge-podge of features that don't go well together at all. Whacko stuff.
Thanks for the reassurance that this is common and I'm not crazy lol.
Weezer album ahh thumbnail
My favorite podcast to listen to, and hear the noises in my ears while I play the podcast with my phone with my earbuds in my ears, hearing the noises.. in my ears.
I'm currently in my 3rd year in a game programming course, and from my (limited) view it's kind of an impossible choice with the games industry when you really enjoy making games. Working with other talented people to make something cool is an intoxicating experience, with all the agile processes, difficulties and inevitable crunch feeling worth it for what you get to make.
Obviously this is something of a safety net, where students get to play the part of product owners and scrum masters alongside their discipline-specific game work - my experiences do not include being under the boot of some corporate bigwigs. Even so, I can't imagine leaving behind the mess of game development, even if it was rife with crunch and difficulty. It's just too fun.
Maybe that's a bright-eyed opinion that will fade when I actually enter the industry. Other than taking the risky plunge into an indie studio startup as a graduate, I just don't see any other way.
Sam here - yeahhhh, I def get where you're coming from. Intoxicating is a great word for it. I think a lot of the key here comes down to agency. In the crudest terms, f-cking yourself over for a higher goal, eyes wide open, putting that brick on the gas pedal and leaning in, with a stake whatever happens on the other side - however unhealthy - can be absolutely exhilarating. Being f-cked over, while poorly compensated, by a bunch of people who cut your brakes (and own your car), _without the upside_, can be terrifying. (There's a spectrum, but these are the ends.)
So if we wanna push the field forward, and give players new experiences that deserve to exist- we gotta do the work of carving human spaces out of this mechanical industry. (As Dan mentioned, in a different environment, those devs went on to make Alien Isolation!) Be ambitious and kind, and _look out for each other_. Eyes wide open!
designing props at midnight, quote "I bet they have food in their fridge" made me cry a little
I'm glad i'm doing gamedev as a hobby. Maybe one day i'll get to do gamedev fulltime, but i'm not sacrificing my idealism or my worklife balance to do it.
i legit had to do a spit take when i heard the name “RJ Lake” because i knew him primarily for making music for a webcomic (which i shall not name)
ok he mentioned it. shoulda listened to the whole thing before commenting 😅
(if you’re seeing this, RJ, your music absolutely rocks)
I AINT HEAR NO BELL! I will now proceed to struggle by myself.
-" the girl, hearing this..." being quoted made me feel like those self aware stories. Creepy
as someone who might get an internship for an EA studio this episode really scared me
Good luck out there
48:47 200$ per minute of animation sounds insane when I work for 100$ and am insecure about raising my price
I hope you get the raise you deserve next time you do contract work
You guys always manage to say something ridiculously profound about creativity and i both love you for it and despise the fact that YOU came up with that insight and I, also a creative person, didn't
video game
i JUST rolled credits on i am your beast so this is awesome
BTW thanks for making this podcast. I dont know who any of you are but ive been listening since the first episode and its been great! Love to hear a podcast about game development!
There's something cathartic about hearing other devs feel burnt out from the unrelenting engine of AAA Game Dev. The only other time I get to hear this stuff is at GDC lol. People really need to understand how bad this place can be before they get in. I've been considering leaving the industry myself after working for a little over 3 years in the industry in AAA and being treated like crap. Indie has always been my personal goal, but who knows if I can make the transition like it sounds some of you have. It's a huge risk to jump into indie dev with no connections in the space, and I worry a lot of currently popular youtubers are leading some people astray making it sound much easier than it really is.
omg julianoodle i love this goddamn podcast so much dont ever stop and more importantly dont ever get burnt out or tired of it because its so perfect
also "Dont ever be like 'i can do this in a week' its so unhealthy" *cut to sexfm flashbacks*
This is so cool to hear when I’m so close to graduating (sunk cost fallacy yaaaay)
WAIT I LOVE UNBEATABLE! So excited for the full game to come out
❤
what does it say about me that I wanna be an animator way more after hearing this whole episode
It shows that you're truly passionate and you want to defy all odds, proving an evil world wrong. It won't be easy, but with the proper discipline, you can make this a reality.
Can you please upload this later, I'm busy rn
Mb
Fact check: cartoon Network studios isn't actually shutting down, they just close the building to move to another one.
ever since i finished homestuck i have yet to consume a piece of media that at some point does not have a homestuck reference and i am distraught at this
also what music did they make i crave this knowledge
"guy who has only seen Boss Baby" ass comment
Hi, anime animator here, you have no idea how true hearing about how anime work gets exploited on the daily if it wasn't for the worker shortage so they would get in contact with people overseas
Amazing episode! I really liked it, hope I can make use of these tips one day, once again leaving with a sense of dreath and excitement
I'm glad that I only dev games for fun, solo. I almost dread the idea of one of my projects taking off, then I'd have to live up to that lightning in a bottle.
I hope to maybe make enough from my passion projects to buy a few pizzas, lol. (To be fair, I'd make games for free, but I feel like not charging anything would devalue the games in the eyes of the players).
Definitely sad that it's so hard for people to make a stable living doing what they love, though. Much respect to all you guys!
Entertainment as an "industry" is one of the single biggest scams in human history.
Great episode and absolutely hysterical way to end it. I enjoyed it a lot as usual!
nah... NAAAAH... you're telling me this NOOOWWW????? AHHHHHHHH 😵💫🫨😵💫🫨😵💫
This is the best podcast I've listened to. I hope that's not a sad thing.
Truly the best gayming podcast ever
1:13 what is this fuckin good mythical morning
How many secrets do you have?.....Yes.
Game awards was an even bigger joke of talking light about the layout and not taking the situation seriously
This was me wanting to write for games for god knows how long. I’ve had to pivot many times and realize that wanting to make a game is a small group effort, or just a me thing over a decade.
Love how sometimes you get pop culture trivia here. Sometimes pure dread
Played the unbeatable demo, loved every second of it. Already wishlisted and ready for it
I am so glad i found this podcast.
Got it. Wasn't planning to anyways, but thanks.
>industry-agnostic sound people giving advice
RJ ON FINAL V3 LETS GOOOOOOOOO
Why does the thumbnail image have them in the weezer blue album pose
Poetic that this is coming out 2 weeks after getting my first games job
Every time I see a video like this it actually has some weird opposite effect. Like a chinese finger trap.
E: Ahh shit 43:20
I have other interests too though.
you got the director of my most anticipated game yet what
Not only should you not not enter any creative industry you should not even do it as a hobby, in fact if you know anyone doing either STOP THEM DONT LET THEM EVEN IF YOU DONT KNOW THEM
Hey for an episode with guests like this, could we get a credit list in the description?
updated the description! oops
Fantastic title to read after starting a course in software design with game dev
THIS DUDE DID MUSIC FOR HOMESTUCK LET'S GO!
I thought Toby Fox did Homestuck's music
Never mind I have now listened to the vid lol
@@SilquetoastPretty sure like 15 people did music for homestuck, the comic ran for like a decade didn't it?
In college for game dev, and I'm kinda wondering what the hell I wanna do afterwards. I definitely don't want to get into AAA development (I decided that even before watching this video), and I definitely don't have the funds (nor courage) to open my own studio. No funds is also why I'm waiting 'til the tail-end of my current project to get assistance with things I straight up cannot do (translations and voice sfx).
Yeah that’s kinda where I’m at, a lot of the indie companies like New Blood and Night Dive want people with 5 years of industry experience too, it’s tricky to navigate
why is the thumbnail weezercoded
Wow never knew Bob Belncher was in the games industry wow 🍔🎮
I may not remember what was said in this podcast tomorrow but I feel like I learned a lot.
this podcast is epic
Final V3 Is the highlight of the week, And Ive been told that's worrying and to seek help
does anyone have a source for cn studios shutting down? I can't find anything
The one true solo developer game I can think of is Cave Story. But that is older.
Edit: oh THAT RJ. The one from the song mix!
Also Cave Story was like his 5th or so game, all of his previous games were simpler and smaller - like GUXT, or all the preview versions of Kero Blaster.
Thank you Billy
I enjoyed listening to you guys, very funny and friendly
nuh uh
The forbidden weezer album
How many times have you had a cell divide in your body. That's how many times you've changed.
im still gonna do it
NOOO RJ DON'T SAY SOMETHING HORRIFICALLY MISUNDERSTANDABLE AT 15:16!!!!
12:15 ding ding ding, very correct answer
I fucking knew it was gonna be crypto lmao
Holy shit, strang scaffold is my favorite company, I love these guys!
Whats the Phantom Menace doc called?
Hiii!!! I've been in QA for almost 2 years and hate video games now!!!
200 dollars per minute meaning 200 dollars for 1 minute of animation, or 200 dollars per minute, meaning 96000 dollars per 8 hour shift?
The former