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I use the restaurant analogy all the time! A popular restaurant, that has been a staple in the community for decades, doesn’t have the best food in the city but they value their customers & staff, people still folks to it religiously. Even if they have to increase prices due to inflation, they still are like family. Then a new owner comes in, changes the menu, gets rid of karaoke Tuesday’s, fires half the staff, lower quality food, customer service is awful & the restaurant looks old & dirty… who is to blame for people not showing up to this restaurant anymore? The customer or owner?
Also like a restaurant, the patrons of the restaurant have no ownership of the business- it doesn't belong to the community. Legally and on paper, it only belongs to the one guy who owns it. To put it another way - your favorite franchise doesn't belong to you any more than the McDonald's down the street does. (Unless you're talking about the Green Bay Packers or the Rochester Red Wings, of course)
@@natethefighter My analogy was in regards to fans not wanting to show up to the ballpark because the product is trash on/off the field. Your analogy is referring to ownership of a company. If you want to talk about professional sports ownership we can talk about local/state funds for stadiums, land, tax exemptions & the price for repairs. If an owner wants to use taxpayer money or benefits, the city/state should require that the team can’t move (obviously there would be more specifics in the contract for that.) That means, even a franchise that claims they aren’t using any city/star funds is lying because there’s building new roads to tax exemptions that are used to get the stadium built.
@@lovesgucci1 agree one hundred percent. I do think that fans and communities should get a lot more say around the professional teams that claim to represent them.
Go look at the response from Sacramento when ownership threatened to take the Kings; its a case study in the community rising up to keep their professional team@@natethefighter
@@natethefighterIt’s a poor idea…unless you have a ‘fan union’. Represented by a diverse committee with a voted speaker who can sit in on meetings and has a vote. Fans are too emotional and diverse in opinion to have direct influence.
One move that I feel was exceptionally cruel was the Houston Oilers. The team didn’t want the Oiler’s name or legacy, but they took it anyway so the city of Houston couldn’t use it in the future. Then they trot out the old Oilers uniforms as throwbacks just to run it in to the fans. They should have left the name in Houston.
Agree. Makes about as much sense to call a team in Tennessee the Oilers as it does to call a team located in Utah the Jazz. Texans name is nowhere near as good IMO. "Houston Oilers number one"....couldn't even keep the song.
@@michaelmarkowski204 Plus the Texans name had already existed as the Dallas Texans became the KC Chiefs. It especially chaps my hide when the Titans roll out the Oiler’s uniforms when they are hosting the Houston Texans. And I’m not even a fan of either Houston team.
Totally agree. They should have left the logo, and colors in Houston as well so they could have been the Oilers once again instead of the Texans when expansion happened.
If a city puts up money to build a stadium, there should be a clause in the contract that the city can retain the rights to the team name and logo if the owner moves in the future
Ohio has a law like this and it came in clutch to save their MLS team. The law states that the owner of a team that wants to sell and relocate must make the sale public and must allow a new prospective buyer to purchase the team without relocation first. You could have a no buyer situation but it is incredibly unlikely
The problem is If the taxpayers paid for a building, they should be the owners and Not these billionaires, they should have to put up half the money in the arena and if they pull out they lose all stakes. In it that would stop them from making poor decisions.
@@garymartin1045 although I'm for full public ownership of teams, at least some form of partial public ownership is more than called for as soon as $1 public dollar is invested
I was the last director of group ticket sales in the history of the Seattle SuperSonics. What we went through in Seattle felt like a funeral every day the last few months, especially when we were running around town telling everyone that we were serious about getting an arena deal done when ownership had no plans to do so. I feel for the staff and fans in Arizona and Oakland. Basketball fans in Seattle know exactly what you're going through.
The only news about professional basketball in Seattle is that the WNBA Seattle Storm was able to be saved by getting new ownership. Since Seattle now has an NHL team an expansion Seattle Sonics team has a bigger chance of happening.
Yeah, but you guys are pretty much a lock to get a new NBA expansion franchise along with Vegas. Plus, your citizens get to release the Kraken, so you're doing OK.
The Sonics leaving Seattle still blows my mind. The Sonics owners being unable/unwilling to make NBA basketball work in Seattle has to be one of the biggest failures in all of sports.
The Expos were not just Montreal's team, but Canada's team. I cheered for them over a thousand miles away in Alberta. Part of me died the day they moved.
I root for The Blue Jay's since the demise of the Expos, because they actually want the Expos back in baseball and deliberately played exhibition games in the Olympic Stadium to help the cause by proving Montreal is still a potential MLB city.
The Blue Jays became Canada's more favored team after their two World Series victories in the 1990's. As for the Expos, they fell victim to the crappy ownership by Jeff Loria.
Some great memories coming from those Expos teams. The players became legends such as Dawson, Raines, Carter, Pedro Martinez, Guerrero, Denny Martinez, Walker and Wallach. I'm sure I missed a few...
Seattle SuperSonics became the OK. City Thunder. Montreal Expos became the Washington Nationals. Winnipeg Jets became the PHX/AZ Coyotes, then became the Utah (team name.) Atlanta Thrashers became the Winnipeg Jets. Oakland A's became the LV (team name.) Quebec Nordiques became the Colorado Avalanche. Hartford Whalers became the Carolina Hurricanes. Colorado Rockies became the New Jersey Devils. Atlanta Flames became the Calgary Flames. Seattle Pilots became the Milwaukee Brewers. Houston Oilers became the Tennessee Titans. Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens. Baltimore Colts became the Indianapolis Colts. Milwaukee Braves became the Atlanta Braves. Brooklyn Dodgers became the LA Dodgers. Dallas Texans became the KC Chiefs. New Orleans Jazz became the Utah Jazz. Vancouver Grizzlies became the Memphis Grizzlies. Syracuse Nationals became the Philadelphia 76ers. Charlotte Hornets became New Orleans Pelicans. St. Louis Cardinals became the PHX/AZ Cardinals. Minnesota North Stars became the Dallas Stars. St. Louis Hawks became the Atlanta Hawks. Kansas City Kings Became the Sacramento Kings. Buffalo Braves became the San Diego Clippers. Washington Senators became the Texas Rangers. New Jersey Nets became the Brooklyn Nets. Minneapolis Lakers became the LA Lakers. LA Rams moved to St. Louis, then back to LA. San Diego Chargers moved to LA. San Diego Clippers moved to LA. Oakland Raiders moved to LA, then back to Oakland, and now moved to LV. Anyone can add to this list…
The Braves were in Boston before Milwaukee The A's were in Philadelphia, then Kansas City, before Oakland The Kansas City Chiefs were in Dallas(called the Texans) The Indianapolis Colts were in Baltimore The Baltimore Ravens were the original Cleveland Browns
I've realized with the Oakland A's move that perhaps I was wrong to buy into "fandom" of a professional sports team. By fandom I mean associating part of my identity with the team and truly caring about the outcome of games. I will recalibrate to a consumer mindset, where I see professional sports as nothing more than entertainment. Franchise owners are paying people to play a game and while it may be fun to watch them perform and appreciate their talent, for me it will no longer be worth the emotional investment of being a fan.
Dang, that's really sad man. Yes, sports is more of a business now more than ever, but the A's are a rare case. Don't let the A's ruin your love of sports!
Agreed. Watching the Raiders break their fans hearts and the A's constant threats of leaving affected my Warrior fandom. When I buy a Warrior ticket I worry less about whether the Warriors win and more about if the entertainment will be worth all the time & energy I'm spending. I've had to learn to keep my emotional distance from things I couldn't control, like the wins & losses of a team that at the end of the day doesn't know or care about me personally. I'm much happier now, but sports shouldn't be like that.
No amount of S.O.S (Save Our Sonics) chants throughout 2006-07 helped. Howard Schultz extorted the region, didn’t get his way, then sold to out-of-town investors - sealing the relocation deal. The only thing that will get NBA back to Seattle is a new building, and the city got it recently with a completely rebuilt (privately financed) KeyArena (now Climate Pledge Arena). All it took was nearly 20 years.
Not to mention the purchase of the SAC kings was done deal to Chris Hansen, but David Stern stepped in and forced the Maloof family to resale to Vivek Ranadive for less $
Relocation without fail boils down exclusively to ownership failure. The main reason for the failure seems to be that the Owners treat a sports team like any other business when it’s not. Business is not personal, while sports are the most personal thing in some fans lives. The best owners in sports have always do a very good job identifying that their organizations should not be ran like a typical business and prioritize winning and the fan experience. Look at the Jerry Buss, George Stienbrenner, Jerry Jones, and Joe Lacob as examples. All of these guys have been fantastic owners because they have (or had) unwavering belief in their product and what they were doing was right. This led to great success on the field of play in their respective sports. They all now have some of the most die hard fans in all of sports. These owners who have their teams relocated are utterly incompetent. It is never the fans faults because if you build it, the people will come every time without fail. Shame on all of these ownership groups because they were incompetent and do not know how to run a sports organization.
It's a unique pain that never really goes away if the team doesn't exist. I'm a former Minnesota North Stars fan (born in 1974 in MN so they were the fan of my childhood).......Minnesota losing a hockey team wasn't something that could happen in my naive mind......when they moved to Dallas, it hurt very bad, and the pain somewhat still exists, even with a new team coming into the market......you still miss the "N Star", the green and gold color scheme, etc etc, it just is always somewhere near the surface....to this day, I purposely avoid watching Dallas Stars game to not have my sports rooting heart go to that place
I haven’t had one of my teams relocate but this recent batch of relocations has made me sick as a sports fan. If one of my teams got uprooted and left, I would struggle to continue watching the sport. With everything being so interconnected in 2024, sports feel like one of the last senses of community within a city so it hurts even more nowadays,
When the Stars moved, my dad developed a disdain for all Dallas area teams (especially the Dallas “America’s Team [opposed to the other 31 teams in America]” Cowboys).
The Thrashers' move was shady. Always outdrew the Hawks until they were sold to- WHAT'S THIS- the Hawks owners! Then suddenly the team was put on the backburner, eventually sold at a tidy profit, and the Hawks eliminated their competition for the winter pro sports dollar in Atlanta. Furthermore, this was a blow to a growing hockey culture in the area (minor pro team in Gwinnett, championship team at Georgia Tech) so the "South doesn''t care about hockey, basketball is king" stereotype could take hold and benefit the Hawks and the NBA. But you can see why the Hawks owners would like that! Now, the Coyotes are sold to an NBA owner in Salt Lake City. When the NHL goes against the NBA the NHL is almost always competitive and often more popular (take St. Louis, Toronto, Buffalo, New Jersey, Vancouver). That's exactly what was happening in Atlanta. Now, the Jazz owner will buy the Coyotes. What happened in Atlanta could very easily happen again in Salt Lake City, and after fleecing Utah for a new arena(s).
The only good thing about the what the Expos -> Nationals move did was leave the Expos name and logo behind. Expos fans (and you see it all over Montreal) can still wear their gear and have their unique identity. This is something that makes me sick as an A's fan, that I can't wear my A's gear, or display my memorabilia in my home that I've accumulated over the last 40 years if they bring that to Vegas.
Man, I really feel for A’s fans. I used to beg my dad to take me to see the Bash Brothers with they’d come through Toronto. That franchise has such a history and another shitty owner has just pissed it all away. Those bright green jerseys are some of the best in the league too. The A’s should have to leave all the name and history in the Bay Area and start again in Vegas or Sacramento or wherever they go. The Expos are still very popular in Montreal and you see Expos gear everywhere even a quarter century later. MLB should absolutely come back to MTL but they won’t, because they need a new stadium first and any ownership group will have their hand out for public funds, which ain’t gonna happen in Quebec. Not in these times. As a former Chargers fan, I feel your pain. Especially since the leaving process was long and drawn out just like the A’s in Oakland.
Expos retired numbers in the rafters at Centre Bell. Montreal Canadiens minding them till baseball returns to the city and they even employed the mascot. Classy by the Habs.
it’s honestly crazy but i live in chicago and i see expos hats literally everywhere, i really like the logo so im gong to buy one pretty soon, im probably gonna buy a A’s hat to honor the city of oakland
I’m a nationals fan and I’ve been one since 2010. I wear my Expos hat 2-3x a ball season to show commemoration to Montreal. Hopefully yall will get a team again.
For me, it's not so much the fact that they left, it's the WAY they left (remember Norm Green's sexual harassment allegations and the fact that his wife threatened to leave him if he didn't move the team?) Norm Green's basically a real-life cartoon villain lol
Sports team relocation is never about bad fans, it's always about bad owners. When Kroenke pulled the Rams out of St Louis, he eviscerated the city as just a Baseball Town...2 weeks ago the city hosted 3 games (Battlehawks, Cardinals, St Louis City SC) over 3 Leagues with 102k fans attending... including 40k+ at the UFL game Not bad fur a "baseball Town"
When AZ teams are good, fans pack the barn. This is true for all four sports. But AZ has only had one good sports owner in its entire history-Jerry Colangelo-and fans are tired of throwing $$ at sleazeballs who are content to field a mediocre team in a half-full barn year after year.
As a St. Louis football fan, its like a death in the immediate family. And both family members we’ve lost were crackhead junkies the way the owners ran them. You knew it was coming but it still hurts like hell.
STL deserves their own NFL team birthed there. They stole two teams from two different cities and got burned. No reason to try a third team unless it’s founded there
@@michaelleroy9281 That is not unusual though given the many poor teams that followed. I remember the low Cardinals attendance in the 1970s during their seasons that were actually not all that bad compared to the STL Rams lean years. I am really glad the UFL/XFL Battlehawks although minor league are being supported as as well as any professional sports team. Ka Kaw is the Law in St. Louis.
@@michaelleroy9281in 1980!!!!!! Anaheim!! Opened the door for all this madness starting with the LA Coliseum being vacated and the Raiders jumping on the bandwagon! Domino effect ensued…
In Pittsburgh, the Penguins nearly relocated 3 times. The first time, the IRS locked the doors to the arena. They were saved last minute by a group that kept them in the city. The Pirates nearly became the first team in Florida. The mayor found an owner that would keep them here.
Used to be an avid NBA fan in the 90s & much of the 2000s. Regularly watched games (regular season, playoffs & Finals) & knew who a ton of players were. However After the NBA left Seattle for OKC in 2008 my NBA fandom dwindled. I still pay attention to to what’s happening in the league (teams, news, division standings, playoffs/Finals, draft) but it hasn’t been the same since 2008. I think the last game I watched in its entirety is 2016 Game 7 Cavs beat Warriors as it was must see. I know once the NBA grants expansion, Seattle will get a team & the Sonics will return (in like 5 years probably). Also seeing what could have been the Sonics when OKC was a young good roster during the the 1st half of 2010s was very brutal to witness cause they could have been Seattle legends if the Sonics stayed.
Leaving the team colors was a good point that I had not thought much about. Now I realize why the A’s changed colors when they left KC. In KC the colors were blue and white. They left that behind and the Royals then took on those colors. Also the NFL Browns left the whole identity and colors behind when they went to Baltimore. The new Browns then reclaimed the identity.
Speaking of relocation, Alex Muruelo did an interview yesterday during which he stated the Tucson Roadrunners will be moving to Mullett Arena in Tempe a part of his efforts to keep interest in hockey alive in the metro Phoenix area during this apparent interim period of no Coyote hockey. Bad move IMO as it appears the Roadrunners have great fan support in Tucson, so they're going to be angry, and will Phoenix fans support an AHL team after having an NHL team...?
Which is such an empty threat because it won’t move out of the metro area. I’m glad they’re threatening because it’s one the franchises that has no other excuses (ie: low attendance, lack of history…) So let the cardinals try this because it will definitely backfire!
That’s not really the case with the Cardinals though. Theres no chance they’d leave St. Louis, and they wouldn’t even leave that stadium within the next 10 years. Owners will be stuck having to pay more than they want to for their unnecessary renovations.
People have to be prepared to say no, and make their governments do the same, and take the risk of having the team walk. In well over half of these cases, the team owner is bluffing and doesn't want to or won't be allowed to move. As long as people keep caving in to this sort of thing, it will keep happening.
The Rams one is a little different. They left as their stadium got torn apart and LA was in a recession which is why they left (and the raiders) and then came back after 20 years. The others haven’t relocated back to their original market
@@brodiebrazil I agree but also wonder how much STL had played in their own demise. They had two teams move there for 15-20 years then they both left. The rams at least made sense as they spent 50 years there. The Cardinals tho…?
@@iljackb I feel for STL fans but I cannot tell you how many people in SoCal are happy to both have their team back (if they’re older) or happy to have a team in the first place. Yes being a major market helps but the rams never should’ve left
@@maddrone7814 STL politics kicked the Cardinals out the door. The county was ready to build them a new stadium then the city stepped in, killed that and made no real effort to do much of anything to keep them. City vs County is to blame for a majority of the problems around here still.
You always hear that it is a privilege and not a right for players to be in these leagues...but why don't hold owners to the same standard? Corporate owners should be allowed again in the major leagues so that other fan bases can do what the Green Bay Packers of done: Own the team locally and run it responsibly. For example: The Green Bay Packers have invested over $1 billion into Lambeau Field since 2003, including capital improvements, maintenance, and operations and have not asked for any public money for the stadium...and their investments have not included public funds. THE example is staring us in the face!
@@tombraiderstrums09the reason the Jets cannot use the old logo from the 80’s/90’s is because the franchise moving to Utah still owns the IP on the old logos
The thing of it too is A) The Whalers were more than just a team, it gave Hartford (a city constantly derided in the NE as being the rest stop between NY and Boston) a big-league feel and national relevance that it hasn't really had since B) The Hurricanes have had far more on-ice success than the Whalers NHL era. Celebrate your own legacy.
I'm going to add some perspective to this. Growing up watching my father miss football was painful. With us being from Baltimore and I was little when they moved and never got attached or knew the legacy. I will never love football like him. The sports teams do not love you. Some owners do actually care but once the well has been poisoned in a market, it will never work again. The owner will make every possible effort to sabotage working it out. It will get messy, and feelings will get hurt.
and i happen to live not far from where said team moved to however i was like 2. but if this was going on today no way in hell they move here cause most people would be like "tax money for this shit? NO! we are taxed enough already"
I think the deals need to locked to the stadium and transit links. Manufactured entertainment districts don't really work organically most of the time. Having giant parking lots that cover more area than the stadium itself are a waste. A new team identity is an opportunity to start anew and build something that that new fans can be a part of from day one. Having the "Baltimore Browns" wouldn't have brought people in like the Ravens, a name that draws on local history.
I lost my NFL team after almost 60 years and it ultimately cost me my career as I had to retire from a related field. Bitterness isn’t a strong enough word. The ownership actively poisoned the well with his hired mouthpiece insulting voters and fans alike. They wanted to move to a bigger market. They made sure it happened. These guys can rot for all I care.
The stadium grift. Tax payers are over it. I live across the street from Kauffman Stadium and a Royals fan my entire life. We are inviting the Royals to leave after John Sherman tried to take advantage of us with offensive deal. It’s all a grift and we are done with it.
When I was 12 years-old, my favorite team, the New York Giants moved to San Francisco. It did not bother me because I lived 286 miles from New York City. As a result, I have been a San Francisco Giants fan for the last 66 years even though I have never lived in San Francisco.
Was the owner at least a good person and did what was good for the team and the fans? That could be the difference between the Giants relocation to SF and the A's to Vegas.
One further point, the new thing now is to build a 'one sport' stadium/arena. It was for a while, in the past, the popular thing to make a football/baseball stadium and/or a hockey/basketball arena. So instead of a stadium/arena being used 'almost' year round, they are now vacant for a longer period of time. Being vacant means no money coming in. I know, they hold concerts and other events during their downtime, but it still leaves large chunks of vacant time.
As a still broken-hearted Sonics fan, it really is so tough. Went to the Coliseum last year and had a blast, wish the A’s would stay in Oakland. One caveat though, the hundreds of millions in public funding requests isn’t that new of a thing. Does go back decades now as an expectation. OKC ownership had a good faith requirement to build an arena in Seattle and proposed the most expensive arena in the NBA, almost entirely publicly funded, and built at probably the worst area for traffic in the whole state 😂 If you haven’t already seen it, Sonicsgate is a really good watch on how it went down for us.
I know the feeling when the Hornets left. I’ve been a bulls since since a child. But when the hornets first left Charlotte, it was painful to see because their was such a a great market here for basketball. And of course, it’s the home state team. I was glad they were able to get the history back for the team when they came back. Still a bulls fan 20+ years since that relocation, but I smile when I see that Teal and Purple these days.
John Fisher is not only stealing the team away from this community but he's also holding half of the Coliseum site hostage! Why did the county not have the foresight to make the A's sign a no relocation stipulation is beyond me, we wouldn't even be here right now. The LEAST they could do is leave the name and brand here and start anew in Vegas, Sacramento, Pluto or wherever.
With regards to the St. Louis NFL situation: that move was based on complete and total lies mended with greed. There was - and still is - no legitimate reason for that city to be without an NFL team, especially one that left LA in the first place because fans weren't showing up to games (and still aren't). NFL's loss is a gain for the UFL, as those jilted fans are now the UFL's best fan base.
st. Louis was even prepared to build yet another stadium for the Rams this one outdoor on the riverfront. A local STL judge ruled that since the hotel and entertainment tax did not affect all residents there was no need to first get public approval for funding, which otherwise would have failed. The media got STL really excited as the relocation group acted fast once Kroenke threatened to move to L.A.. The problem was that Stan Kroenke wanted the much larger TV market of L.A. and had the wealth to privately build there and doing so has really expanded his wealth from their TV market. I think a better resolution would have been to also award STL an expansion team. For now, STL is supporting the UFL/XFL Battlehwaks as well as the Cardinals, Blues, and the new soccer team that was privately funded by the owners of Enterprise and others. Also upsetting was learning of the Stan Kroenke indemnification agreemnt to compensate NFL owners in the event of any STL lawsuits to swing their votes.
Giants would have been in Florida if it was not for McGowan and his last minute bid. Expos moved because MLB wanted out of Canada. They are still fighting with the O’s over that move. It’s an interesting to read the briefs if you really want to learn about relocation.
Ex-San Diego Chargers fan here. As childish as it sounds I will never get over their move to LA. I empathize with all you A’s and coyotes fans right now
@@michaelmarkowski204 at first he was pro San Diego and said the chargers died when they left to LA. But money talks and he went scurrying back to Spanos with his tail Between his legs to be their broadcaster again. Nick hardwick did the same thing. Atleast LT was a spanos bootlicker from the beginning.
It's one thing to say a team CAN'T work in a particular market. This is the narrative management wants the public to swallow. But in reality its that management believes there's another market that comes with less risk, less required investment. In sports leagues that have become effective monopolies, it shouldn't surprise us that ownership suites are filled with men who have unfettered greed in place of where their hearts should be.
Even though we got a new team through relocation, I feel bad for Thrashers fans that lost their team and would very much have preferred the original Jets not relocated in the first place. I moved to Winnipeg before starting Grade 6, played EA NHL games on PS1 since Kindergarten, and it still stings that there wasn't a team to see during those years, or play as in those classic installments.
Relocation sucks! As a St. Louis Rams fan, we had nothing to cheer about for years. We were being groomed, for years, to lose our team. It’s not fair what happens. I just don’t even watch NFL games anymore, even though the Chiefs are close, it’s not my team. It’s still painful! But we will always have our memories of the greatest show on turf 😢
One way of keeping a team in a city: Owner owns the stadium too. Rogers Communications owns both the Blue Jays and the Rogers Centre, so when they wanted major renovations, they paid for all of it themselves . Alternatively, if the city is big enough and the teams are profitable enough, the city can tell an owner to take a hike and the facility ends up being 100% privately funded (Scotiabank Arena in Toronto - seat/suite licenses, advertising, exclusive concession rights, etc.)
Personally, I think the saddest relocation of a sports team was the Brooklyn Dodgers leaving for Los Angeles. You know, Brooklyn was once called the City of Churches. And I once heard a theologian (a member of a church) say that it’s better to lose a church than it is to lose a baseball team. Yes, Brooklyn has the Nets, but they’re still upset about losing the Dodgers. That pain never goes away.
Yes, @@splashnskillz37, this is true. And you know what? When the Mets debuted in 1962, the Mets were a baseball team that fans of the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants could agree to root for. 👍⚾️
@splashnskillz37 But when Neil Diamond walks into Fenway to sing 'Sweet Caroline' (or the National Anthem) in 2007 and wears a "Keep the Dodgers in Brooklyn" jacket, it has to run a little deeper.
The most impactful relocation was in the AFL, with the South Melbourne Swans relocating to Sydney. It was after this that the then VFL expanded from a state league to the national league of today.
Fans always have the most to lose. They pay, pay and pay some more. When was the last time a bigtime professional franchise actually lost money? Owners want a new Stadium? Sure the fans and citizen need to pay for it. Do they pay for renovations after it's built? Usually not. Time to pay some more. Pay for seat listening too while you're at it, just like fans in Buffalo just had to. Take, take and take some more. I love sports, but it's become hard to stomach over the past few years. When will the greed stop? When will the fans finally reach their breaking point financially? Love the content Brodie! Love the community here too! o/
Brodie, I think you just nailed the answer to the private public stadiums issue. If a billionaire owner asks for public money and receive it they can't move a team for at least 50 years. As you said once a private business gets a dollar of public money they no longer are a private business. Just my two cents.
I live near a city that has seen a lot of teams come and go, two of which have come back, one came from a city, went back to said city, and moved again. Los Angeles sports teams are for the most part transplants
Expos were already fading by the time I got into sports as a preteen but a losing team, multiple bad owners and a bad stadium doesn't help, Thrashers likely should have been in the suburbs like the Braves are now is my guess, the A's should be in Oakland but the team avoiding affordable housing as part of the deal is not cool Sonics I'm not too familiar with what happened there and the Rams were always going to leave St. Louis as soon as they got there. The stadium in St. Louis is the best of a bad bunch of dome stadiums built in the 90s.
Congress needs to get involved! The NBA, NFL & NHL relocates their teams too often but in the MLB it was more of a rarity. The Expos, eerily similar to the A’s, moved in 2005. Prior to that, Seattle Pilots moved after one year to Milwaukee & became the Brewers in 1970. Seattle got a team a couple of years later. So MLB has been way better in this aspect BUT I can’t recall a time that numerous owners have threatened to move if they don’t receive money towards renovations or new stadiums, plus entertainment districts! Congress really needs to act! I’m fine with some money, some tax incentives and city land IF that means the city has some say against relocating.
I live in Oregon not so far away from Portland only about 10 to 15 minutes away. I’m not a Blazers fan but I am glad we have them and I couldn’t imagine them leaving the city ever. I love having them around and I hope we land a MLB and NHL team in the future but this city loves its sports. And I could only imagine the same thing happening if the Blazers left that happened with Sonics. Portland loves the Blazers and the Timbers and I wish there was a way to keep teams in there city’s forever.
Perhaps you would consider doing another video along the same line as this one? A look at what happened with some franchises that have moved multiple times. The Athletics in baseball are on their 3rd move at least. The recently announced move by the NHL Coyotes is their 2nd move. The NHL Devils are on their 3rd city. This latest incarnation called the NHL Sharks have had multiple moves (somebody help with this one) has had 2 (or 3? The Cleveland Barons)moves and are on their 3rd or 4th home? The NBA Franchise, the Clippers are on their 3rd city after 2 moves... I'm sure that there's more, I am only in my 50's and don't know about moves back in the 1950's and beyond. I think that there may be a story here on why some teams have never moved (relocated) and others seem to always be talking about relocating.
Sharks founded in 1991 have always been in the Bay Area. The Golden Seals moved to Cleaveland and were merged into the Northstars in 1978. So the Seals lineage is part of the Dallas Stars org
Market viability is a tricky one. I don't believe that a previously-viable market for a professional sports team becomes "unviable" at any point for the most part. However, I've seen cases with some of my clients where market demographics change, consumer priorities change, costs change, and what once was a viable market for their product or service is no longer viable. I just went through this with a client where the market for their products as a whole took a 38% downturn, and then the landlord of his retail condo unilaterally doubled everyone's rent. They could have potentially dealt with either issue in their market, but not both; they were forced to relocate to a different market as a result. Do I believe this to be the case with most professional sports teams that relocate? Not really. With the corporatism that exists within major professional sports, the relocations are generally based on the best deal that the owners can get for themselves. I can't rule it out in all cases, though.
I don't know how much of this applies to the NFL. It seems like many football fans just root for franchises over any regional loyalty. We of course have the ultimate example of that here in the East Bay. The second the Raiders got the owner's vote to move to Vegas, I canceled my season tix, took all of my gear and through it in the trash. For me, it's not about colors, it's about community. But, there are still tons of people here who still root for that organization. And, that's fine. No judgment coming from me. It's all just the candy aisle in the supermarket of life anyway. But, the city attached to that team name really doesn't seem to matter for that sport.
I would say the Raiders transcend the locale because of the cool factor of their look, the fact they've had 3 home locations now that are all relatively close to each other, and the NFL doesn't require the same kind of commitment as other sports. It's kinda like how the Cowboys are much more than Dallas' team. I wouldn't give them the America's Team moniker, but they are easily Texas' favorite son.
Here in England the concept of relocation is just not a thing. I can only think of it happening once in football/soccer, and are often called "the franchise" and not in a good way
The line about them being a private business changes when you ask for public money. If they want to be private, then pay all the bills and go about your business.
At least Seattle (and Vegas) should be getting NBA teams soon. Hopefully Seattle gets a Cleveland brown’s scenario and all of their history, logos, name, etc. is given (or bought) back.
To your point about teams becoming community assets once public funds are put into them, that is why the Art Modell law exists in Ohio, to prevent teams that take public money for their facilities from simply skipping town and leaving the city/state holding the bag
If cities keep telling these owners no this grift will stop. At the minimum a third party needs to do a comprehensive study that is audited by another third party to show the NEW revenue the team brings in and not money they receive that would have gone elsewhere locally, NEW revenue. If they bring in 29% of the billion dollars they are asking for then we will give them 29% of it. The numbers must be proven first and the studies that show these teams do not generate nearly what the stadiums cost than studies that show they do. It’s not even close
Yeah i was devastated when the OILERS moved to Tennesse and took the teams logo and name because Bud Adams wouldnt give up the name he had them take out the famous scoreboard in the Astrodome and add a few thousand more seats to stay in Houston and he still ended up leaving anyways i really enjoy your show and i told my brothers up in Michigan about your channel as they are big hockey fans
Update on SLC arena: Yesterday, BNN Bloomberg had an article on its website about the SLC relocation. It stated that Ryan Smith plans to use the $900M in taxpayer dollars to complete major renovations to the Delta Center (over a number of years...?) and have the Jazz and NHL team stay there instead of building a new arena since he also owns the Delta Center and it's located in downtown SLC anyway and will still be part of the downtown redevelopment process.
I wish that Oakland could get a Cleveland Browns scenario where the team and colors remained and Sacramento or Vegas or Timbuktu gets the mlb expansion.
Seattle lost the Metropolitans in hockey then got the Kraken, lost the Pilots then got the Mariners, lost the Supersonics and are a favorite for expansion, almost lost he Mariners until Nintendo bought them, and almost lost the Seahawks until Paul Allen bought them. The Sounders expanded and seem anchored well. It has been an expensive endeavor to keep and recoup sports teams. While I've been a fan of most of these teams of my hometown, it has been costly and it's about time cities make sports teams pay for their stadiums and/or pay market rent. We need legislation putting limits to taxpayer funding on any stadium.
Brodie, I'm curious to know your thoughts on the viability of Atlanta as an NHL market. Has the market truly changed like they say it has? Is an arena outside the city the game-changer? Is the third time the charm?
I think that any team that get a significant amount of tax payer cash to build a stadium or arena should be required to pay a significant amount of rent that would go to facility’s maintenance. So if a team plays $20M a year for 30 years and need a renovation or a new facility, then the money is there but they would have to renew the lease and keep paying annual rent. If the team leaves, then the city keeps the money for an expansion or relocation team.
I hate the outcome of the entertainment districts. The area around AZ cards stadium is expensive. The area around Atlanta Braves stadium is expensive. The areas are nice but they are expensive for no reason.
As far as the city of Oakland and the a's go...Howard Terminal was wayyy too ambitious . If the plan was for a ballpark only- I believe it would have already been a done deal and we would be watching the constuction now .
While I realize this video is not specifically about the Oakland Athletics, one thing to consider is how this franchise began in Philadelphia, then went to Kansas City then to Oakland, so they have already moved twice. To the best of my recall, the only other MLB team to have 3 different home cities post World War I are the Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves. Consider too the city of Oakland as a whole, they had the Raiders leave Oakland not once, but twice. Take these facts for whatever they may be worth. Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky.
While I am not opposed to sports, this is one thing that I don't like about them becoming professional. People have become too invested in teams, so much so, that occurrences like this can deeply affect them. They are just sports, and should have remained just that. When I was much younger, I used to have favorite teams, but no longer. It's not worth the heartache when things are not going well for them. I've learned to enjoy them purely for entertainment value.
I am wondering how can growing areas that don't have a team, that are growing faster and outpacing the population of older areas that already have a team, can gain a team other than by expansion, if teams are unable to relocate? For example, if MLB teams didn't have the ability to relocate, then St. Louis, Boston, and Philadelphia would still have two teams, and New York City would still have three teams.
The football pyramid in England is remarkably effective at keeping owners from simply picking up and moving. Only one team has ever done it, and they’re the most hated team in the country. The phoenix team in the old community started in the 9th tier and earned a ton of promotions and now play in the same league as the team that was stolen from them, and they refuse to recognize them; they don’t name their opponent in game programs or on their scoreboard, and fans simply call them “the franchise” All this is made possible because teams can be started from scratch and earn promotions, while teams whose owners fail to invest in their club risk getting relegated. And the closest thing they have to “expansion” is a team starting at the bottom of the pyramid, which-as far as I can tell-is basically glorified beer league. But each year they promote the top teams and relegate the bottom teams from the higher division, so every team is in the league they are in because they earned their spot… Except the franchise in Milton Keynes, who simply bought their way in and now host their dozens of fans in a 30k seater
In my lifetime, the following relocations have occurred in the Big 4 sports market. Grizzlies leaving Canada for Memphis in 2001 Expos moving to DC in 2005 Sonics moving to OKC in 2007 Thrashers moving to Winnipeg in 2011 Rams and Chargers moving to LA in 2016 Raiders moving to Las Vegas in 2020 If things hold up, we will have at least 2 more relocations in less than a year. Arizona Coyotes moving to Utah in 2024 A’s leaving Oakland in 2025 What a wild timeline
Here in Ohio, the Browns and Bengals are both trying to get more public dollars, to renovate their stadiums. I would turn into a madman if any of my Cincinnati sports teams left the city. Our NBA team, Cincinnati Royals, left town decades before I was born. But I have family members here in Cincy, who misses that team very much.
I remember Jerry Lucas and Oscar Robertson playing well for the Royals. I grew up a St. Louis Hawks fan but I can say they are not missed like an NFL team. The UFL/XFL St. Louis Battllehawks although minor league are supported as well as the Cardinals, Blues, and the new privately funded soccer team thanks to the owners of Enterprise. STL was going to use a hotel and entertainment tax for a public funded portion of a new stadium but Stan Kroenke wanted the large TV market of L.A..
I'm from Atlanta and while I was disappointed that the Thrashers moved from Atlanta I was glad the ownership group The Atlanta Spirit was gone. They were awful people who did not care at all about the teams, the fans, nor the city. Winnepeg is a great city and, yes we here Atlanta were not overly upset about the move. Atlanta Spirit ownership was going away and that was good.
I think Atlanta is next up for an NHL expansion franchise as it seems like there are people in the city with the cash to build a new arena. Bettman still wants to be in that market. Same with Phoenix.
Teams should allow fans to buy a stake of ownership in their brand so the team remains viable in the city where they reside. The Green Bay Packers do that for their fans in the NFL and they're not relocating EVER.
Brodie, you forgot my Browns. We got them back, but the tale in how we lost them are the same. Its always ownership that never wants to pay the full tab, while forcing a weary fanbase (that are also taxpayers) for a another arena/stadium right after they just approved and began payment for another stadium in town just a few months or years prior (Cleveland, Seattle, and San Diego was like this too). These teams love to place the tax-paying fans in a no-win situation when they know they dont want to lose their team--but at the same time, youre being a slimy double-crosser
The places saying no to funding all seem to be places that have gotten burned in the past. At this point we know that the economic impact promises are usually off by an order of magnitude. If it's a reasonable number, then there's an ROI for taxpayers. If it's a handout, they can get bent. The places opening up the wallet these days are the places that haven't been through this cycle in Utah and Las Vegas, and the places like Minneapolis that are convinced if they touch the stove just one more time it won't burn them again. Privatize the gains, socialize the losses.
I've unironically just stopped caring about the Big Four leagues tbh with all this nonsense. Getting into soccer (which has its own set of problems but relocation generally isn't one) honestly kinda helped (especially the Bundesliga with 50+1)
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Bring back The Expos. Still love the classic logo. ❤🇨🇦⚾
I use the restaurant analogy all the time!
A popular restaurant, that has been a staple in the community for decades, doesn’t have the best food in the city but they value their customers & staff, people still folks to it religiously. Even if they have to increase prices due to inflation, they still are like family.
Then a new owner comes in, changes the menu, gets rid of karaoke Tuesday’s, fires half the staff, lower quality food, customer service is awful & the restaurant looks old & dirty… who is to blame for people not showing up to this restaurant anymore? The customer or owner?
Also like a restaurant, the patrons of the restaurant have no ownership of the business- it doesn't belong to the community. Legally and on paper, it only belongs to the one guy who owns it.
To put it another way - your favorite franchise doesn't belong to you any more than the McDonald's down the street does. (Unless you're talking about the Green Bay Packers or the Rochester Red Wings, of course)
@@natethefighter My analogy was in regards to fans not wanting to show up to the ballpark because the product is trash on/off the field. Your analogy is referring to ownership of a company.
If you want to talk about professional sports ownership we can talk about local/state funds for stadiums, land, tax exemptions & the price for repairs. If an owner wants to use taxpayer money or benefits, the city/state should require that the team can’t move (obviously there would be more specifics in the contract for that.) That means, even a franchise that claims they aren’t using any city/star funds is lying because there’s building new roads to tax exemptions that are used to get the stadium built.
@@lovesgucci1 agree one hundred percent. I do think that fans and communities should get a lot more say around the professional teams that claim to represent them.
Go look at the response from Sacramento when ownership threatened to take the Kings; its a case study in the community rising up to keep their professional team@@natethefighter
@@natethefighterIt’s a poor idea…unless you have a ‘fan union’. Represented by a diverse committee with a voted speaker who can sit in on meetings and has a vote.
Fans are too emotional and diverse in opinion to have direct influence.
One move that I feel was exceptionally cruel was the Houston Oilers. The team didn’t want the Oiler’s name or legacy, but they took it anyway so the city of Houston couldn’t use it in the future. Then they trot out the old Oilers uniforms as throwbacks just to run it in to the fans. They should have left the name in Houston.
Agree. Makes about as much sense to call a team in Tennessee the Oilers as it does to call a team located in Utah the Jazz. Texans name is nowhere near as good IMO. "Houston Oilers number one"....couldn't even keep the song.
@@michaelmarkowski204 Plus the Texans name had already existed as the Dallas Texans became the KC Chiefs. It especially chaps my hide when the Titans roll out the Oiler’s uniforms when they are hosting the Houston Texans. And I’m not even a fan of either Houston team.
Totally agree. They should have left the logo, and colors in Houston as well so they could have been the Oilers once again instead of the Texans when expansion happened.
Idk, that first Oakland Raider move was pretty devastating, heartbreaking and hurt the team pretty significantly!
Not to mention a mistake!
For real, oilers brand is much nicer than the Texans. Probably the most boring branding in the NFL.
If a city puts up money to build a stadium, there should be a clause in the contract that the city can retain the rights to the team name and logo if the owner moves in the future
Ohio has a law like this and it came in clutch to save their MLS team. The law states that the owner of a team that wants to sell and relocate must make the sale public and must allow a new prospective buyer to purchase the team without relocation first. You could have a no buyer situation but it is incredibly unlikely
The problem is If the taxpayers paid for a building, they should be the owners and Not these billionaires, they should have to put up half the money in the arena and if they pull out they lose all stakes. In it that would stop them from making poor decisions.
@@garymartin1045 although I'm for full public ownership of teams, at least some form of partial public ownership is more than called for as soon as $1 public dollar is invested
@@garymartin1045 this is exactly why the city of greenbay owns the Packers
They don't care about the fans when money rule the day THAT'S THE LESSON. CLASS DISMISSED
Businesses doing business? Never thought of that
The truth definition of today's world.
@maddrone7814 you can't run a pro sports franchise like a regular business bro, you gotta take losses to build and grow a franchise
Yep. Sadly, Capitalism gives zero shits about anything other than profits.
More like class highlighted amirite
I was the last director of group ticket sales in the history of the Seattle SuperSonics. What we went through in Seattle felt like a funeral every day the last few months, especially when we were running around town telling everyone that we were serious about getting an arena deal done when ownership had no plans to do so. I feel for the staff and fans in Arizona and Oakland. Basketball fans in Seattle know exactly what you're going through.
The only news about professional basketball in Seattle is that the WNBA Seattle Storm was able to be saved by getting new ownership. Since Seattle now has an NHL team an expansion Seattle Sonics team has a bigger chance of happening.
Yeah, but you guys are pretty much a lock to get a new NBA expansion franchise along with Vegas. Plus, your citizens get to release the Kraken, so you're doing OK.
The Sonics leaving Seattle still blows my mind. The Sonics owners being unable/unwilling to make NBA basketball work in Seattle has to be one of the biggest failures in all of sports.
Man, I always hear stories. I liked the Sonics back in the 90s. We're going to be in this together moving forward 😭
The Expos were not just Montreal's team, but Canada's team. I cheered for them over a thousand miles away in Alberta. Part of me died the day they moved.
I root for The Blue Jay's since the demise of the Expos, because they actually want the Expos back in baseball and deliberately played exhibition games in the Olympic Stadium to help the cause by proving Montreal is still a potential MLB city.
@@declanhughes7872that’s a team that has my respect, unlike those bitch ass cubbies(i’m a white sox fan)
The Blue Jays became Canada's more favored team after their two World Series victories in the 1990's. As for the Expos, they fell victim to the crappy ownership by Jeff Loria.
Some great memories coming from those Expos teams. The players became legends such as Dawson, Raines, Carter, Pedro Martinez, Guerrero, Denny Martinez, Walker and Wallach. I'm sure I missed a few...
@@RobertWalterweldon Randy Johnson! Moises Alou
I'm a lifelong A's fan from the Bay Area, living in Arizona. This year REALLY SUCKS! Two teams gone.
Sorry dude. Hope the dbacks and cardinals at least stay put for you there
Seattle SuperSonics became the OK. City Thunder.
Montreal Expos became the Washington Nationals.
Winnipeg Jets became the PHX/AZ Coyotes, then became the Utah (team name.)
Atlanta Thrashers became the Winnipeg Jets.
Oakland A's became the LV (team name.)
Quebec Nordiques became the Colorado Avalanche.
Hartford Whalers became the Carolina Hurricanes.
Colorado Rockies became the New Jersey Devils.
Atlanta Flames became the Calgary Flames.
Seattle Pilots became the Milwaukee Brewers.
Houston Oilers became the Tennessee Titans.
Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens.
Baltimore Colts became the Indianapolis Colts.
Milwaukee Braves became the Atlanta Braves.
Brooklyn Dodgers became the LA Dodgers.
Dallas Texans became the KC Chiefs.
New Orleans Jazz became the Utah Jazz.
Vancouver Grizzlies became the Memphis Grizzlies.
Syracuse Nationals became the Philadelphia 76ers.
Charlotte Hornets became New Orleans Pelicans.
St. Louis Cardinals became the PHX/AZ Cardinals.
Minnesota North Stars became the Dallas Stars.
St. Louis Hawks became the Atlanta Hawks.
Kansas City Kings Became the Sacramento Kings.
Buffalo Braves became the San Diego Clippers.
Washington Senators became the Texas Rangers.
New Jersey Nets became the Brooklyn Nets.
Minneapolis Lakers became the LA Lakers.
LA Rams moved to St. Louis, then back to LA.
San Diego Chargers moved to LA.
San Diego Clippers moved to LA.
Oakland Raiders moved to LA, then back to Oakland, and now moved to LV.
Anyone can add to this list…
SuperSonics became the Thunder that was a really big semi recent one
Business is business
You forgot Kansas City Scouts moving to Colorado ( Denver) and California Golden Seals moving to Cleveland and soon after going out of business
As of now the A's are going to be the A's in Vegas unless something comes up
The Braves were in Boston before Milwaukee
The A's were in Philadelphia, then Kansas City, before Oakland
The Kansas City Chiefs were in Dallas(called the Texans)
The Indianapolis Colts were in Baltimore
The Baltimore Ravens were the original Cleveland Browns
I've realized with the Oakland A's move that perhaps I was wrong to buy into "fandom" of a professional sports team. By fandom I mean associating part of my identity with the team and truly caring about the outcome of games. I will recalibrate to a consumer mindset, where I see professional sports as nothing more than entertainment. Franchise owners are paying people to play a game and while it may be fun to watch them perform and appreciate their talent, for me it will no longer be worth the emotional investment of being a fan.
Dang, that's really sad man. Yes, sports is more of a business now more than ever, but the A's are a rare case. Don't let the A's ruin your love of sports!
Agreed. Watching the Raiders break their fans hearts and the A's constant threats of leaving affected my Warrior fandom. When I buy a Warrior ticket I worry less about whether the Warriors win and more about if the entertainment will be worth all the time & energy I'm spending. I've had to learn to keep my emotional distance from things I couldn't control, like the wins & losses of a team that at the end of the day doesn't know or care about me personally. I'm much happier now, but sports shouldn't be like that.
Exactly!!
I’m a Proud Oaklander and I’ve been going through this since I was 3 years old(47 now)!! I’m done!!!
i agree. most sports team owners arent even fans. its just a new toy to play with. its all about money and thats what sports fans have to realize.
No amount of S.O.S (Save Our Sonics) chants throughout 2006-07 helped. Howard Schultz extorted the region, didn’t get his way, then sold to out-of-town investors - sealing the relocation deal. The only thing that will get NBA back to Seattle is a new building, and the city got it recently with a completely rebuilt (privately financed) KeyArena (now Climate Pledge Arena). All it took was nearly 20 years.
Not to mention the purchase of the SAC kings was done deal to Chris Hansen, but David Stern stepped in and forced the Maloof family to resale to Vivek Ranadive for less $
Relocation without fail boils down exclusively to ownership failure. The main reason for the failure seems to be that the Owners treat a sports team like any other business when it’s not. Business is not personal, while sports are the most personal thing in some fans lives. The best owners in sports have always do a very good job identifying that their organizations should not be ran like a typical business and prioritize winning and the fan experience.
Look at the Jerry Buss, George Stienbrenner, Jerry Jones, and Joe Lacob as examples. All of these guys have been fantastic owners because they have (or had) unwavering belief in their product and what they were doing was right. This led to great success on the field of play in their respective sports. They all now have some of the most die hard fans in all of sports.
These owners who have their teams relocated are utterly incompetent. It is never the fans faults because if you build it, the people will come every time without fail. Shame on all of these ownership groups because they were incompetent and do not know how to run a sports organization.
It's a unique pain that never really goes away if the team doesn't exist. I'm a former Minnesota North Stars fan (born in 1974 in MN so they were the fan of my childhood).......Minnesota losing a hockey team wasn't something that could happen in my naive mind......when they moved to Dallas, it hurt very bad, and the pain somewhat still exists, even with a new team coming into the market......you still miss the "N Star", the green and gold color scheme, etc etc, it just is always somewhere near the surface....to this day, I purposely avoid watching Dallas Stars game to not have my sports rooting heart go to that place
I haven’t had one of my teams relocate but this recent batch of relocations has made me sick as a sports fan. If one of my teams got uprooted and left, I would struggle to continue watching the sport. With everything being so interconnected in 2024, sports feel like one of the last senses of community within a city so it hurts even more nowadays,
As a Canadiens fan I know they aren't going anywhere in my lifetime. If the league folds they will be in the successor league
When the Stars moved, my dad developed a disdain for all Dallas area teams (especially the Dallas “America’s Team [opposed to the other 31 teams in America]” Cowboys).
When the Thrashers moved, I stopped watching hockey for 10 years. Then I started over with another team.
The Thrashers' move was shady. Always outdrew the Hawks until they were sold to- WHAT'S THIS- the Hawks owners! Then suddenly the team was put on the backburner, eventually sold at a tidy profit, and the Hawks eliminated their competition for the winter pro sports dollar in Atlanta. Furthermore, this was a blow to a growing hockey culture in the area (minor pro team in Gwinnett, championship team at Georgia Tech) so the "South doesn''t care about hockey, basketball is king" stereotype could take hold and benefit the Hawks and the NBA. But you can see why the Hawks owners would like that! Now, the Coyotes are sold to an NBA owner in Salt Lake City. When the NHL goes against the NBA the NHL is almost always competitive and often more popular (take St. Louis, Toronto, Buffalo, New Jersey, Vancouver). That's exactly what was happening in Atlanta. Now, the Jazz owner will buy the Coyotes. What happened in Atlanta could very easily happen again in Salt Lake City, and after fleecing Utah for a new arena(s).
The only good thing about the what the Expos -> Nationals move did was leave the Expos name and logo behind. Expos fans (and you see it all over Montreal) can still wear their gear and have their unique identity. This is something that makes me sick as an A's fan, that I can't wear my A's gear, or display my memorabilia in my home that I've accumulated over the last 40 years if they bring that to Vegas.
Man, I really feel for A’s fans. I used to beg my dad to take me to see the Bash Brothers with they’d come through Toronto. That franchise has such a history and another shitty owner has just pissed it all away. Those bright green jerseys are some of the best in the league too. The A’s should have to leave all the name and history in the Bay Area and start again in Vegas or Sacramento or wherever they go. The Expos are still very popular in Montreal and you see Expos gear everywhere even a quarter century later. MLB should absolutely come back to MTL but they won’t, because they need a new stadium first and any ownership group will have their hand out for public funds, which ain’t gonna happen in Quebec. Not in these times. As a former Chargers fan, I feel your pain. Especially since the leaving process was long and drawn out just like the A’s in Oakland.
Expos retired numbers in the rafters at Centre Bell. Montreal Canadiens minding them till baseball returns to the city and they even employed the mascot. Classy by the Habs.
it’s honestly crazy but i live in chicago and i see expos hats literally everywhere, i really like the logo so im gong to buy one pretty soon, im probably gonna buy a A’s hat to honor the city of oakland
Burns my soul to see LV Raider stuff!! It’s almost like a death in the family sort of feeling! It’s a trip
I’m a nationals fan and I’ve been one since 2010. I wear my Expos hat 2-3x a ball season to show commemoration to Montreal. Hopefully yall will get a team again.
In Minnesota even after 31 years there's still a lot of bitterness from the North Stars moving to Dallas
For me, it's not so much the fact that they left, it's the WAY they left (remember Norm Green's sexual harassment allegations and the fact that his wife threatened to leave him if he didn't move the team?)
Norm Green's basically a real-life cartoon villain lol
@@saryphxSounds like George Shinn with the Charlotte Hornets.
Sports team relocation is never about bad fans, it's always about bad owners.
When Kroenke pulled the Rams out of St Louis, he eviscerated the city as just a Baseball Town...2 weeks ago the city hosted 3 games (Battlehawks, Cardinals, St Louis City SC) over 3 Leagues with 102k fans attending... including 40k+ at the UFL game
Not bad fur a "baseball Town"
STL is a great sports town, so this doesn’t surprise me one bit that the Battlehawks are a hit.
KAKAWWWW
When AZ teams are good, fans pack the barn. This is true for all four sports. But AZ has only had one good sports owner in its entire history-Jerry Colangelo-and fans are tired of throwing $$ at sleazeballs who are content to field a mediocre team in a half-full barn year after year.
As a St. Louis football fan, its like a death in the immediate family. And both family members we’ve lost were crackhead junkies the way the owners ran them. You knew it was coming but it still hurts like hell.
STL deserves their own NFL team birthed there. They stole two teams from two different cities and got burned. No reason to try a third team unless it’s founded there
The Rams shouldn't have left LA in the first place
After the Greatest Show On Turf days ended the fan support began to wane
@@michaelleroy9281 That is not unusual though given the many poor teams that followed. I remember the low Cardinals attendance in the 1970s during their seasons that were actually not all that bad compared to the STL Rams lean years. I am really glad the UFL/XFL Battlehawks although minor league are being supported as as well as any professional sports team. Ka Kaw is the Law in St. Louis.
@@michaelleroy9281in 1980!!!!!! Anaheim!!
Opened the door for all this madness starting with the LA Coliseum being vacated and the Raiders jumping on the bandwagon! Domino effect ensued…
In Pittsburgh, the Penguins nearly relocated 3 times. The first time, the IRS locked the doors to the arena. They were saved last minute by a group that kept them in the city.
The Pirates nearly became the first team in Florida. The mayor found an owner that would keep them here.
Used to be an avid NBA fan in the 90s & much of the 2000s. Regularly watched games (regular season, playoffs & Finals) & knew who a ton of players were. However After the NBA left Seattle for OKC in 2008 my NBA fandom dwindled. I still pay attention to to what’s happening in the league (teams, news, division standings, playoffs/Finals, draft) but it hasn’t been the same since 2008. I think the last game I watched in its entirety is 2016 Game 7 Cavs beat Warriors as it was must see. I know once the NBA grants expansion, Seattle will get a team & the Sonics will return (in like 5 years probably). Also seeing what could have been the Sonics when OKC was a young good roster during the the 1st half of 2010s was very brutal to witness cause they could have been Seattle legends if the Sonics stayed.
It's been 16 years since the Super Sonics left the NBA must not want a team there bad enough
@@michaelleroy9281 It will come soon, just a tv deal thing in the way
You are the best Brodie. Thank you for speaking to the root of sports and fandom.
Leaving the team colors was a good point that I had not thought much about. Now I realize why the A’s changed colors when they left KC. In KC the colors were blue and white. They left that behind and the Royals then took on those colors. Also the NFL Browns left the whole identity and colors behind when they went to Baltimore. The new Browns then reclaimed the identity.
Speaking of relocation, Alex Muruelo did an interview yesterday during which he stated the Tucson Roadrunners will be moving to Mullett Arena in Tempe a part of his efforts to keep interest in hockey alive in the metro Phoenix area during this apparent interim period of no Coyote hockey. Bad move IMO as it appears the Roadrunners have great fan support in Tucson, so they're going to be angry, and will Phoenix fans support an AHL team after having an NHL team...?
Its sickening about what's going in sports! Now the Cardinals want to fix up Busch Stadium. Holding the fans hostage. Give us the money or we're gone.
Which is such an empty threat because it won’t move out of the metro area. I’m glad they’re threatening because it’s one the franchises that has no other excuses (ie: low attendance, lack of history…) So let the cardinals try this because it will definitely backfire!
That’s not really the case with the Cardinals though. Theres no chance they’d leave St. Louis, and they wouldn’t even leave that stadium within the next 10 years. Owners will be stuck having to pay more than they want to for their unnecessary renovations.
I dont think the Cardinals would ever leave STL
People have to be prepared to say no, and make their governments do the same, and take the risk of having the team walk. In well over half of these cases, the team owner is bluffing and doesn't want to or won't be allowed to move.
As long as people keep caving in to this sort of thing, it will keep happening.
@@hughjass1044 I dont think MLB would allow the cards to leave to much history there
The Rams one is a little different. They left as their stadium got torn apart and LA was in a recession which is why they left (and the raiders) and then came back after 20 years. The others haven’t relocated back to their original market
yeah it sucks for STL fans, but the Rams were coming back to where they belonged in the first place.
i think it's less about them leaving LA, more about them leaving STL
@@brodiebrazil I agree but also wonder how much STL had played in their own demise. They had two teams move there for 15-20 years then they both left. The rams at least made sense as they spent 50 years there. The Cardinals tho…?
@@iljackb I feel for STL fans but I cannot tell you how many people in SoCal are happy to both have their team back (if they’re older) or happy to have a team in the first place. Yes being a major market helps but the rams never should’ve left
@@maddrone7814 STL politics kicked the Cardinals out the door. The county was ready to build them a new stadium then the city stepped in, killed that and made no real effort to do much of anything to keep them. City vs County is to blame for a majority of the problems around here still.
You always hear that it is a privilege and not a right for players to be in these leagues...but why don't hold owners to the same standard? Corporate owners should be allowed again in the major leagues so that other fan bases can do what the Green Bay Packers of done: Own the team locally and run it responsibly. For example: The Green Bay Packers have invested over $1 billion into Lambeau Field since 2003, including capital improvements, maintenance, and operations and have not asked for any public money for the stadium...and their investments have not included public funds. THE example is staring us in the face!
Teams should have the option to sell voting shares to fans
Great insight Brodie...thanks so much for sharing with all of us !
A friend of mine was a major Montréal Expos fan and I’ve never heard a fan be that sad and depressed when the expos left town.
The worst pain in fandom is when the Carolina Hurricanes wear the Whaler uniforms.
Omg if that Utah team ever wears the kachinas I will lose my mind
@@tombraiderstrums09the reason the Jets cannot use the old logo from the 80’s/90’s is because the franchise moving to Utah still owns the IP on the old logos
Or when the Titans wear the Oilers throwbacks
@@aidanwotherspoon905 The Jets do use the old logo though - reverse retro and Heritage Classic turned third jersey.
The thing of it too is
A) The Whalers were more than just a team, it gave Hartford (a city constantly derided in the NE as being the rest stop between NY and Boston) a big-league feel and national relevance that it hasn't really had since
B) The Hurricanes have had far more on-ice success than the Whalers NHL era. Celebrate your own legacy.
I'm going to add some perspective to this. Growing up watching my father miss football was painful. With us being from Baltimore and I was little when they moved and never got attached or knew the legacy. I will never love football like him. The sports teams do not love you. Some owners do actually care but once the well has been poisoned in a market, it will never work again. The owner will make every possible effort to sabotage working it out. It will get messy, and feelings will get hurt.
and i happen to live not far from where said team moved to however i was like 2. but if this was going on today no way in hell they move here cause most people would be like "tax money for this shit? NO! we are taxed enough already"
I think the deals need to locked to the stadium and transit links. Manufactured entertainment districts don't really work organically most of the time. Having giant parking lots that cover more area than the stadium itself are a waste. A new team identity is an opportunity to start anew and build something that that new fans can be a part of from day one. Having the "Baltimore Browns" wouldn't have brought people in like the Ravens, a name that draws on local history.
I lost my NFL team after almost 60 years and it ultimately cost me my career as I had to retire from a related field. Bitterness isn’t a strong enough word. The ownership actively poisoned the well with his hired mouthpiece insulting voters and fans alike. They wanted to move to a bigger market. They made sure it happened. These guys can rot for all I care.
Which NFL Team? SD Chargers?
The stadium grift. Tax payers are over it. I live across the street from Kauffman Stadium and a Royals fan my entire life. We are inviting the Royals to leave after John Sherman tried to take advantage of us with offensive deal. It’s all a grift and we are done with it.
When I was 12 years-old, my favorite team, the New York Giants moved to San Francisco. It did not bother me because I lived 286 miles from New York City. As a result, I have been a San Francisco Giants fan for the last 66 years even though I have never lived in San Francisco.
Was the owner at least a good person and did what was good for the team and the fans? That could be the difference between the Giants relocation to SF and the A's to Vegas.
Or when they pull the plug on a team like the Newfoundland Growlers or Kansas City Blades Back in the day! I was so sad when Kansas City Blades left.
Football hasn't been the same since my Rams left St. Louis.
One further point, the new thing now is to build a 'one sport' stadium/arena. It was for a while, in the past, the popular thing to make a football/baseball stadium and/or a hockey/basketball arena. So instead of a stadium/arena being used 'almost' year round, they are now vacant for a longer period of time. Being vacant means no money coming in. I know, they hold concerts and other events during their downtime, but it still leaves large chunks of vacant time.
With almost losing the kings and actually losing the raiders it hurts so damn much
I feel like lots of restaurants/ businesses close when their lease runs out. New lease is too expensive.
As a still broken-hearted Sonics fan, it really is so tough. Went to the Coliseum last year and had a blast, wish the A’s would stay in Oakland.
One caveat though, the hundreds of millions in public funding requests isn’t that new of a thing. Does go back decades now as an expectation.
OKC ownership had a good faith requirement to build an arena in Seattle and proposed the most expensive arena in the NBA, almost entirely publicly funded, and built at probably the worst area for traffic in the whole state 😂
If you haven’t already seen it, Sonicsgate is a really good watch on how it went down for us.
I know the feeling when the Hornets left. I’ve been a bulls since since a child. But when the hornets first left Charlotte, it was painful to see because their was such a a great market here for basketball. And of course, it’s the home state team. I was glad they were able to get the history back for the team when they came back. Still a bulls fan 20+ years since that relocation, but I smile when I see that Teal and Purple these days.
Mattress Mack has meant more for the Astros than any one player. Yes, he’s a businessman but he also fights Phillies fans at 100 yrs old and 105 lbs.
John Fisher is not only stealing the team away from this community but he's also holding half of the Coliseum site hostage! Why did the county not have the foresight to make the A's sign a no relocation stipulation is beyond me, we wouldn't even be here right now. The LEAST they could do is leave the name and brand here and start anew in Vegas, Sacramento, Pluto or wherever.
The As started in Philly then went to KC then Oakland. They kept their name. Why leave the name in Oakland is something I don’t get
Um... they were the OG Winnipeg Jets
I can almost guarantee they won't be relocating to Pluto. Those road trips would be tough.
With regards to the St. Louis NFL situation: that move was based on complete and total lies mended with greed. There was - and still is - no legitimate reason for that city to be without an NFL team, especially one that left LA in the first place because fans weren't showing up to games (and still aren't). NFL's loss is a gain for the UFL, as those jilted fans are now the UFL's best fan base.
st. Louis was even prepared to build yet another stadium for the Rams this one outdoor on the riverfront. A local STL judge ruled that since the hotel and entertainment tax did not affect all residents there was no need to first get public approval for funding, which otherwise would have failed. The media got STL really excited as the relocation group acted fast once Kroenke threatened to move to L.A.. The problem was that Stan Kroenke wanted the much larger TV market of L.A. and had the wealth to privately build there and doing so has really expanded his wealth from their TV market. I think a better resolution would have been to also award STL an expansion team. For now, STL is supporting the UFL/XFL Battlehwaks as well as the Cardinals, Blues, and the new soccer team that was privately funded by the owners of Enterprise and others. Also upsetting was learning of the Stan Kroenke indemnification agreemnt to compensate NFL owners in the event of any STL lawsuits to swing their votes.
Giants would have been in Florida if it was not for McGowan and his last minute bid. Expos moved because MLB wanted out of Canada. They are still fighting with the O’s over that move. It’s an interesting to read the briefs if you really want to learn about relocation.
Ex-San Diego Chargers fan here. As childish as it sounds I will never get over their move to LA. I empathize with all you A’s and coyotes fans right now
Where was Dan Fouts when you needed him to make the argument for the Chargers to stay....?
@@michaelmarkowski204 at first he was pro San Diego and said the chargers died when they left to LA. But money talks and he went scurrying back to Spanos with his tail
Between his legs to be their broadcaster again. Nick hardwick did the same thing. Atleast LT was a spanos bootlicker from the beginning.
Rancho Peñasquitos. Poway. Lemon Grove. Mission Valley. Oceanside. Show me your lightening bolt!
@@sd_Raiders not childish at all. fuck that franchise. hoping the trends continue, no sellouts at SOFi, 70% away fans, bottom barrel tv ratings.
It's one thing to say a team CAN'T work in a particular market. This is the narrative management wants the public to swallow. But in reality its that management believes there's another market that comes with less risk, less required investment. In sports leagues that have become effective monopolies, it shouldn't surprise us that ownership suites are filled with men who have unfettered greed in place of where their hearts should be.
Even though we got a new team through relocation, I feel bad for Thrashers fans that lost their team and would very much have preferred the original Jets not relocated in the first place. I moved to Winnipeg before starting Grade 6, played EA NHL games on PS1 since Kindergarten, and it still stings that there wasn't a team to see during those years, or play as in those classic installments.
Relocation sucks! As a St. Louis Rams fan, we had nothing to cheer about for years. We were being groomed, for years, to lose our team. It’s not fair what happens. I just don’t even watch NFL games anymore, even though the Chiefs are close, it’s not my team. It’s still painful! But we will always have our memories of the greatest show on turf 😢
One way of keeping a team in a city: Owner owns the stadium too. Rogers Communications owns both the Blue Jays and the Rogers Centre, so when they wanted major renovations, they paid for all of it themselves . Alternatively, if the city is big enough and the teams are profitable enough, the city can tell an owner to take a hike and the facility ends up being 100% privately funded (Scotiabank Arena in Toronto - seat/suite licenses, advertising, exclusive concession rights, etc.)
Personally, I think the saddest relocation of a sports team was the Brooklyn Dodgers leaving for Los Angeles. You know, Brooklyn was once called the City of Churches. And I once heard a theologian (a member of a church) say that it’s better to lose a church than it is to lose a baseball team. Yes, Brooklyn has the Nets, but they’re still upset about losing the Dodgers. That pain never goes away.
The Mets exist tho
Yes, @@splashnskillz37, this is true. And you know what? When the Mets debuted in 1962, the Mets were a baseball team that fans of the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants could agree to root for. 👍⚾️
@splashnskillz37 But when Neil Diamond walks into Fenway to sing 'Sweet Caroline' (or the National Anthem) in 2007 and wears a "Keep the Dodgers in Brooklyn" jacket, it has to run a little deeper.
The most impactful relocation was in the AFL, with the South Melbourne Swans relocating to Sydney. It was after this that the then VFL expanded from a state league to the national league of today.
Fans always have the most to lose. They pay, pay and pay some more. When was the last time a bigtime professional franchise actually lost money? Owners want a new Stadium? Sure the fans and citizen need to pay for it. Do they pay for renovations after it's built? Usually not. Time to pay some more. Pay for seat listening too while you're at it, just like fans in Buffalo just had to. Take, take and take some more. I love sports, but it's become hard to stomach over the past few years. When will the greed stop? When will the fans finally reach their breaking point financially? Love the content Brodie! Love the community here too! o/
Brodie, I think you just nailed the answer to the private public stadiums issue. If a billionaire owner asks for public money and receive it they can't move a team for at least 50 years. As you said once a private business gets a dollar of public money they no longer are a private business. Just my two cents.
I live near a city that has seen a lot of teams come and go, two of which have come back, one came from a city, went back to said city, and moved again. Los Angeles sports teams are for the most part transplants
Expos were already fading by the time I got into sports as a preteen but a losing team, multiple bad owners and a bad stadium doesn't help, Thrashers likely should have been in the suburbs like the Braves are now is my guess, the A's should be in Oakland but the team avoiding affordable housing as part of the deal is not cool Sonics I'm not too familiar with what happened there and the Rams were always going to leave St. Louis as soon as they got there. The stadium in St. Louis is the best of a bad bunch of dome stadiums built in the 90s.
Congress needs to get involved!
The NBA, NFL & NHL relocates their teams too often but in the MLB it was more of a rarity. The Expos, eerily similar to the A’s, moved in 2005. Prior to that, Seattle Pilots moved after one year to Milwaukee & became the Brewers in 1970. Seattle got a team a couple of years later.
So MLB has been way better in this aspect BUT I can’t recall a time that numerous owners have threatened to move if they don’t receive money towards renovations or new stadiums, plus entertainment districts!
Congress really needs to act! I’m fine with some money, some tax incentives and city land IF that means the city has some say against relocating.
More than a couple of years the Mariners didn't come in until 1977
You left out the Washington Senators moving to Texas in 1972.
@@thescott7539 Good catch, thank you!
But you get my point, I hope? 😂
@@michaelleroy9281 *few years.
Do you want congress telling you where you can move your business? That sounds like communism.
I live in Oregon not so far away from Portland only about 10 to 15 minutes away. I’m not a Blazers fan but I am glad we have them and I couldn’t imagine them leaving the city ever. I love having them around and I hope we land a MLB and NHL team in the future but this city loves its sports. And I could only imagine the same thing happening if the Blazers left that happened with Sonics. Portland loves the Blazers and the Timbers and I wish there was a way to keep teams in there city’s forever.
Perhaps you would consider doing another video along the same line as this one? A look at what happened with some franchises that have moved multiple times. The Athletics in baseball are on their 3rd move at least. The recently announced move by the NHL Coyotes is their 2nd move. The NHL Devils are on their 3rd city. This latest incarnation called the NHL Sharks have had multiple moves (somebody help with this one) has had 2 (or 3? The Cleveland Barons)moves and are on their 3rd or 4th home? The NBA Franchise, the Clippers are on their 3rd city after 2 moves... I'm sure that there's more, I am only in my 50's and don't know about moves back in the 1950's and beyond.
I think that there may be a story here on why some teams have never moved (relocated) and others seem to always be talking about relocating.
Sharks founded in 1991 have always been in the Bay Area. The Golden Seals moved to Cleaveland and were merged into the Northstars in 1978. So the Seals lineage is part of the Dallas Stars org
Market viability is a tricky one. I don't believe that a previously-viable market for a professional sports team becomes "unviable" at any point for the most part. However, I've seen cases with some of my clients where market demographics change, consumer priorities change, costs change, and what once was a viable market for their product or service is no longer viable. I just went through this with a client where the market for their products as a whole took a 38% downturn, and then the landlord of his retail condo unilaterally doubled everyone's rent. They could have potentially dealt with either issue in their market, but not both; they were forced to relocate to a different market as a result.
Do I believe this to be the case with most professional sports teams that relocate? Not really. With the corporatism that exists within major professional sports, the relocations are generally based on the best deal that the owners can get for themselves. I can't rule it out in all cases, though.
I don't know how much of this applies to the NFL. It seems like many football fans just root for franchises over any regional loyalty. We of course have the ultimate example of that here in the East Bay. The second the Raiders got the owner's vote to move to Vegas, I canceled my season tix, took all of my gear and through it in the trash. For me, it's not about colors, it's about community. But, there are still tons of people here who still root for that organization. And, that's fine. No judgment coming from me. It's all just the candy aisle in the supermarket of life anyway. But, the city attached to that team name really doesn't seem to matter for that sport.
I would say the Raiders transcend the locale because of the cool factor of their look, the fact they've had 3 home locations now that are all relatively close to each other, and the NFL doesn't require the same kind of commitment as other sports. It's kinda like how the Cowboys are much more than Dallas' team. I wouldn't give them the America's Team moniker, but they are easily Texas' favorite son.
Here in England the concept of relocation is just not a thing. I can only think of it happening once in football/soccer, and are often called "the franchise" and not in a good way
It's really hard to bitch about losing a game knowing what Oakland is going through. Doesn't make it hurt less, just puts it into perspective.
Vancouver still has the Canucks, but everytime I’m at the arena I see old references to the Grizzlies, still there 20 years later
The line about them being a private business changes when you ask for public money. If they want to be private, then pay all the bills and go about your business.
At least Seattle (and Vegas) should be getting NBA teams soon. Hopefully Seattle gets a Cleveland brown’s scenario and all of their history, logos, name, etc. is given (or bought) back.
Seattle and OKC have a similar deal to the Hornets/Pelicans deal
To your point about teams becoming community assets once public funds are put into them, that is why the Art Modell law exists in Ohio, to prevent teams that take public money for their facilities from simply skipping town and leaving the city/state holding the bag
If cities keep telling these owners no this grift will stop. At the minimum a third party needs to do a comprehensive study that is audited by another third party to show the NEW revenue the team brings in and not money they receive that would have gone elsewhere locally, NEW revenue. If they bring in 29% of the billion dollars they are asking for then we will give them 29% of it. The numbers must be proven first and the studies that show these teams do not generate nearly what the stadiums cost than studies that show they do. It’s not even close
Yeah i was devastated when the OILERS moved to Tennesse and took the teams logo and name because Bud Adams wouldnt give up the name he had them take out the famous scoreboard in the Astrodome and add a few thousand more seats to stay in Houston and he still ended up leaving anyways i really enjoy your show and i told my brothers up in Michigan about your channel as they are big hockey fans
Wish more of our teams had Green Bay's ownership model.
At least it’s looking like Seattle is gonna get the Super Sonics back soon. Hopefully Arizona gets their team back soon too
Montreal expos too possibly
possibly but I don’t think they’re going to go back to Montreal
They will. Arizona/Phoenix is a top 10 media market. No way does the NHL just ignore a huge money printer like that
@@dreamcage1801 not happening. Too many larger cities in the US compared to a tiny Canadian market
@@maddrone7814 San Diego deserves a team
I still remember when the Grizzlies left Vancouver. They might not have been a good team, but they were our team
I never went back to hockey after the Northstars left.
Update on SLC arena: Yesterday, BNN Bloomberg had an article on its website about the SLC relocation. It stated that Ryan Smith plans to use the $900M in taxpayer dollars to complete major renovations to the Delta Center (over a number of years...?) and have the Jazz and NHL team stay there instead of building a new arena since he also owns the Delta Center and it's located in downtown SLC anyway and will still be part of the downtown redevelopment process.
I remember when the Columbus Crew owner threatened to move the team to Austin. Crew fans started a whole movement and managed to help keep their team.
And things have never been better for us. 🖤💛
The restaurant analogy was right on point! That was great!
I wish that Oakland could get a Cleveland Browns scenario where the team and colors remained and Sacramento or Vegas or Timbuktu gets the mlb expansion.
Seattle lost the Metropolitans in hockey then got the Kraken, lost the Pilots then got the Mariners, lost the Supersonics and are a favorite for expansion, almost lost he Mariners until Nintendo bought them, and almost lost the Seahawks until Paul Allen bought them. The Sounders expanded and seem anchored well.
It has been an expensive endeavor to keep and recoup sports teams. While I've been a fan of most of these teams of my hometown, it has been costly and it's about time cities make sports teams pay for their stadiums and/or pay market rent. We need legislation putting limits to taxpayer funding on any stadium.
Brodie, I'm curious to know your thoughts on the viability of Atlanta as an NHL market. Has the market truly changed like they say it has? Is an arena outside the city the game-changer? Is the third time the charm?
I think that any team that get a significant amount of tax payer cash to build a stadium or arena should be required to pay a significant amount of rent that would go to facility’s maintenance. So if a team plays $20M a year for 30 years and need a renovation or a new facility, then the money is there but they would have to renew the lease and keep paying annual rent. If the team leaves, then the city keeps the money for an expansion or relocation team.
I hate the outcome of the entertainment districts. The area around AZ cards stadium is expensive. The area around Atlanta Braves stadium is expensive. The areas are nice but they are expensive for no reason.
As far as the city of Oakland and the a's go...Howard Terminal was wayyy too ambitious . If the plan was for a ballpark only- I believe it would have already been a done deal and we would be watching the constuction now .
While I realize this video is not specifically about the Oakland Athletics, one thing to consider is how this franchise began in Philadelphia, then went to Kansas City then to Oakland, so they have already moved twice. To the best of my recall, the only other MLB team to have 3 different home cities post World War I are the Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves. Consider too the city of Oakland as a whole, they had the Raiders leave Oakland not once, but twice. Take these facts for whatever they may be worth. Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky.
While I am not opposed to sports, this is one thing that I don't like about them becoming professional. People have become too invested in teams, so much so, that occurrences like this can deeply affect them. They are just sports, and should have remained just that.
When I was much younger, I used to have favorite teams, but no longer. It's not worth the heartache when things are not going well for them. I've learned to enjoy them purely for entertainment value.
I am wondering how can growing areas that don't have a team, that are growing faster and outpacing the population of older areas that already have a team, can gain a team other than by expansion, if teams are unable to relocate? For example, if MLB teams didn't have the ability to relocate, then St. Louis, Boston, and Philadelphia would still have two teams, and New York City would still have three teams.
The Dodgers are one of the only franchises that fund everything in-house. No public money used, ever.
The football pyramid in England is remarkably effective at keeping owners from simply picking up and moving. Only one team has ever done it, and they’re the most hated team in the country. The phoenix team in the old community started in the 9th tier and earned a ton of promotions and now play in the same league as the team that was stolen from them, and they refuse to recognize them; they don’t name their opponent in game programs or on their scoreboard, and fans simply call them “the franchise”
All this is made possible because teams can be started from scratch and earn promotions, while teams whose owners fail to invest in their club risk getting relegated. And the closest thing they have to “expansion” is a team starting at the bottom of the pyramid, which-as far as I can tell-is basically glorified beer league. But each year they promote the top teams and relegate the bottom teams from the higher division, so every team is in the league they are in because they earned their spot…
Except the franchise in Milton Keynes, who simply bought their way in and now host their dozens of fans in a 30k seater
I miss the Atlanta Thrashers. Hopefully they are coming back soon in the coming years.
In my lifetime, the following relocations have occurred in the Big 4 sports market.
Grizzlies leaving Canada for Memphis in 2001
Expos moving to DC in 2005
Sonics moving to OKC in 2007
Thrashers moving to Winnipeg in 2011
Rams and Chargers moving to LA in 2016
Raiders moving to Las Vegas in 2020
If things hold up, we will have at least 2 more relocations in less than a year.
Arizona Coyotes moving to Utah in 2024
A’s leaving Oakland in 2025
What a wild timeline
You forgot to mentioned the Hornets moving from Charlotte to New Orleans in 2002
@@DavidSanchez-pg1ub yes that part. Thank you.
What I learned when the rams left ---- the NFL thinks NOTHING of the average fan that pays for everything. Its just business kids. DEAL with it
Here in Ohio, the Browns and Bengals are both trying to get more public dollars, to renovate their stadiums. I would turn into a madman if any of my Cincinnati sports teams left the city. Our NBA team, Cincinnati Royals, left town decades before I was born. But I have family members here in Cincy, who misses that team very much.
I remember Jerry Lucas and Oscar Robertson playing well for the Royals. I grew up a St. Louis Hawks fan but I can say they are not missed like an NFL team. The UFL/XFL St. Louis Battllehawks although minor league are supported as well as the Cardinals, Blues, and the new privately funded soccer team thanks to the owners of Enterprise. STL was going to use a hotel and entertainment tax for a public funded portion of a new stadium but Stan Kroenke wanted the large TV market of L.A..
I don’t think Atlanta cares that their 2 hockey teams left. 😆
Atlanta still does its Atlanta Knights chant at Atlanta United games.
I'm from Atlanta and while I was disappointed that the Thrashers moved from Atlanta I was glad the ownership group The Atlanta Spirit was gone. They were awful people who did not care at all about the teams, the fans, nor the city. Winnepeg is a great city and, yes we here Atlanta were not overly upset about the move. Atlanta Spirit ownership was going away and that was good.
I think Atlanta is next up for an NHL expansion franchise as it seems like there are people in the city with the cash to build a new arena. Bettman still wants to be in that market. Same with Phoenix.
There are also great teams, and the fans just don't come. Like the Rays, for example.
Teams should allow fans to buy a stake of ownership in their brand so the team remains viable in the city where they reside. The Green Bay Packers do that for their fans in the NFL and they're not relocating EVER.
To be fair, NY Knicks are kinda the same, but more or less you're buying MSG stock and hoping they keep having great years to return good dividends
Like the Bundeliga
The list is longer than that. It's kinda hard to find a city that hasn't had a team relocate.
Brodie, you forgot my Browns. We got them back, but the tale in how we lost them are the same. Its always ownership that never wants to pay the full tab, while forcing a weary fanbase (that are also taxpayers) for a another arena/stadium right after they just approved and began payment for another stadium in town just a few months or years prior (Cleveland, Seattle, and San Diego was like this too). These teams love to place the tax-paying fans in a no-win situation when they know they dont want to lose their team--but at the same time, youre being a slimy double-crosser
The places saying no to funding all seem to be places that have gotten burned in the past. At this point we know that the economic impact promises are usually off by an order of magnitude. If it's a reasonable number, then there's an ROI for taxpayers. If it's a handout, they can get bent.
The places opening up the wallet these days are the places that haven't been through this cycle in Utah and Las Vegas, and the places like Minneapolis that are convinced if they touch the stove just one more time it won't burn them again.
Privatize the gains, socialize the losses.
There should be no taxpayer dollars going to billionaire owners, who can fund these projects themselves.
Amen! Period! Problem solved!
I've unironically just stopped caring about the Big Four leagues tbh with all this nonsense. Getting into soccer (which has its own set of problems but relocation generally isn't one) honestly kinda helped (especially the Bundesliga with 50+1)