I really like how the ending of DMC5 eases you into saying goodbye to Dante and Vergil. It doesn't feel like a farewell to them, but more of a "see you when I see you" kinda thing. Even Vergil himself says "we're still around" and promises Nero a round 2 at some point, so they're not really gone for good, but damn they got a great send-off.
okay so while i agree that they did take some elements from the reboot, a lot of what you said goes beyond simple liberties and goes into being outright factually incorrect about many elements. i will brake this down for you without going silly alright? while initially the appearance and new attidude of the reboot dante did piss people off, people were more annoyed that a reboot was happening overall since 4 wasn't received badly or sold poorly, it did really well and even left questions unanswered about nero and how he's a relative of the sparda bloodline you say they kept with the direction of dante in the reboot but they didn't? they changed his design so he wasn't so emaciated, changed the hair so it wouldn't be so flamboyant and toned it down, the face no longer resembled the dev and now resembles the voice actor, they changed the coat a few times afterwards and changed dante's attitude from a tortured angry man who has moments of loosing his mind to basically an angstier version of nero, so they didn't maintain there original direction. nero back in 4 was a punk, he didn't like authority much, the reboot didn't influence that on him really, the only influence of the reboot is changing nero's outfit making it more punk inspired with the shorter blue denim/leather jacket, short and spikey hair with combat boots and cargo pants. no, vergil was not manipulating people for his own ends in the reboot, based on the dialog at the end he genuinely thought they were all up him ruling the world as if he thought they already knew what they were signing up for. this is why this moment sucks because he spent years leading the order and only just now he realised 'wait, you guys didn't want me to rule the world? but i totally thought you guy's would feel that it was kino'. vergil didn't turn on anyone in the reboot, he GENINELY thought they'd be fine with his plan and was surprised when they didnt agreed with it. dante and kat were the ones who turned on vergil. V on the other hand did manipulat everyone and only turned on dante because dante is his target. V was manipulating everyone so he could reunite with Urizen so he could live since he was dying, so no similarities there since vergil in reboot wasn't manipulating them to begin with. V revealing secrets to nero about his past? no, the only things he told nero was of the relationship between dante and vergil and that urizen is vergil, that's not secrets to nero's past. him telling nero that this is the demon that took his arm isn't a secret of his past, nero already knew it was this demon that did it. nico's father didn't abuse her? there's nothing that stated that her father abused her, all he did was abandoned her and that's it. i have the art book and nothing about kat in that piece of art suggested she has an affinity for mechanics, sure she likes motorcycles but that's it? either that or she was a musician. the grease monkey idea is all nico. nico's design was based on a combo of grease monkey mechanic and sassy bad girls, nothing in the info out there suggests kat was the inspiration, kat's design is based on her being a wiccan, a punk and her shutting people out due to her trauma. kat never granted dante new combat abelites, the most she did was open gates and allowed dante to interact with key objects and....that's it. nico on the other hand made the player weapons which directly helps with combat throughout the entire game. again....the main problem wasn't 'it's not my dante or vergil' it's 'wait fuck off i don't want a reboot, it's not needed' plus the end of the sons of sparda arc doesn't meant no more dante and vergil, it means they no longer fight each other to the death over ideology, now their bonds are healed and now at most, they fight, with no intention of killing the other just as some friendly rivalry. all in all, yeah there are some things lifted like how music ramps up with the style rank, the slow mo combat finishers and the more grounded character designs and they made nero's design finally match his character by being inspired by reboot dante...but that's really it, your video is disliked for a reason and that's because you got so much wrong in it
You must be *REALLLLLLYyyy* FUN at parties, aren't cha'? This is DMC... *Not a thesis paper* on why this guy, or anything else sucks: *colossal donkey balls...* Lol xD
A Ninja Theory programmer spoke about plans they had for the sequel, and I found it shocking for several reasons: - Dante choosing the angelic way more | as Nero has a more "angelic" demon form; - Dante being saved by his uncle | as Nero being saved by Dante; - Nature's life being drained by something | like the Tree in DMC5 - an "evolved" version of Vergil showing up while nature is being drained; he is considered a "mistery man" at the start and they discover his identity later | as DMC5 It looks, in general terms, A LOT similiar to what we got in DMC5, and I'm wondering if they actually used all of this for 5 or it is just a coincidence... To me, it is clear that Nero has a lot of connection to reboot's Dante. Both have an "angelic" form, Nero is the successor of dante's (reboot) design and Dante (reboot) has a lot of Nero's combo. Now I think even more DMC5 being a sequel to both series, original and (spiritually) reboot. Reddit comments were just: "This was so far the original series. Luckily we didn't get it 😢😭". Are they blinded or what?
Makes perfect sense but you know these DMC fanboys are nuts. Guys writing posts 3-4 times larger than OPs to not give DmC any credit for how DMC5 turned out, even with the creator flat out stating he loved DmC
@@RUclipsCensors I hate fanboys for this reason. They treat their favourite games as something so important that no one can make contructive critics or analysis about it. It's ironic, because this makes fanboys hardly the most expert people about their favourite games, movies etc Lol. Overall, I loved DmC's plot. It was simple, but it had clear development for their characters and you can actually see how they change through the game. Instead, DMC5's felt out of its nature. What it seriously lacked was that sense of continuity with the previous Vergil and that's because they fused DMC3's vergil with DmC's, and as a result we got a terrible and unnatural character who resemble Vegeta a lot more than the og Vergil. And that's because they didn't know how to insert him in this plot already created by Ninja Theory. And fanboys ignore it lol
@@beluuzzz I still don't comprehend how someone can hate DmC today. I think that it is still the most stylish game speaking about animations and camera. And story, despite being simpler, was coherent and all characters had their development, while DMC5 was an overhall fail for character and storywise. Vergil was turned into a copy of Vegeta for stupid reasons and fans still don't complain about his stupidity respect to vergil of dmc3. What the f***
@@brando_duurieI hate DMC fanboys so much, they really think DMC5 is a full original game, but there's a lot of things in gameplay and in history that came from DmC. Hypocrites.
@@idoitforthememes6011 Nah, the plot about climbing a tower to stop the big bad Vergil, sure. The whole thing has really strong DMC3 vibes, while V acts as the human partner here instead of Arkham , which makes it imho narrativity weaker. But the fight itself? It's really much closer to DmC with some sprinkles of DMC3 and DMC4. Looks and feels like a harder version of DmC.
2013 gets a needless amount of flak, no other game has such a great and unique art style and abstract combat environments that hits on those grungy elements, and the setting is honestly great. I don't think there will be no more games with Dante and Vergil though.
@@umbasamufasa9676all we need is to bring back forward and back specials on the melee and style button and maybe three more of each weapon type and we'd have a grand ol time.
We should honestly get a proper DmC2 and have it be it’s own thing next to the mainline games. That way everyone is happy and we can combo more in style.
I really want the DmC Sequel, i enjoyed the first one, while the characters might not be as great as the OG, the gameplay is fun and the world is interesting and felt different, and the ending left me wanting more, and see how this version of Dante evolve.
This is the biggest problem I noticed with his points. I think he doesn't see the fact that most of what he talked about is similar to DMC4 and back, and even some things that might be similar to DmC, DmC just "copied" them from DMC4, therefore it'd still be a similarity between DMC4.
@@zffrailgun1630 While his video isn't supposed to be taken seriously, Itsuno clearly took some inspiration from DmC. I'd say the biggest problem with classic DMC titles was no definitive art direction. Each game differed so much in its approach to visual style because they coudsn't figure out what would scream "style". I like DMC 4 a lot but it isn't all that stylish to me, looks more like a Final Fantasy game. The good thing about DmC is they took a more urban approach to its art design and boldly followed that direction till the end. It had its issues but a large portion of it inspired DMC5 and helped establish, what I like to concider, a definitive visual style for this series. Loud, bold and urban (epidemy of Western style). You can't also deny that they implemented some smaller elements from DmC either as a nod to that game's fanbase or simply because these elements genuinly enhanced the game's aesthetic.
@@sharavy6851wdym, dmcs 1-3 stuck to the whole Gothic aesthetics throughout, dmc 4 still was Gothic but a more "modernized" tone, though having almost completely different biomes definitely gave a more "varied" feel to it, but all installments stuck to a specific art direction, 4 just took a bit more liberty to changing things up a bit, and dmc5 was different since we've stuck most of the time in a tree, but the times were outside, it still has a Gothic feel, tho you can barely tell, and tho the world can feel bland, it easily gets overshone by the characters with how they portray them, especially Dante, dmc3 was bleak as fuck but it still feels like a party every time dantes in a cutscene
@@theysaidimasian9766 I'd say the art direction in 4 is more clashing rather than varied. All we have is a bunch of monotonous locations not resembling one another and holding no integrity beyond being connected. You could say they wanted to take the approach of having each area have its own theme unlike previously but the line up they presented us with was very unimpressive. Also, this is the game that change approaches to architecture. Unlike the other 3's Gothic direction, they decided to mainly go with Roman style instead. The whole city of Fortuna has a distinct Roman flair from its building and roads to the chapel. That was what I had in mind when I said DMC team had no clear vision and that they kept changing directions. The only time you see Gothic architecture in the game is when you encounter the snowy castle in mission 3/4 (and when you come back as Dante), which, I'll admit I really enjoy the visuals of.
The reaction to *_DmC_* back in 2013 was the most embarrassed I've ever been to call myself a gamer. I couldn't believe what a pathetic bunch of little squibs I was surrounded by. *_DmC_* was a fantastic game, the depth of which wasn't fully appreciated until just a few years ago.
@@umbasamufasa9676 This is mostly from a post I wrote a few weeks back: I wasn't that into *_DMC1_* (or *_DMC2_* obviously), but I liked every game after that. They all had their negatives though, with the negatives of *_DmC_* being some the most stupid and wasteful I've ever seen in my life. • *_DMC1_* was pretty good, but I played it after DMC3, so it just seemed to me dated in many ways. I liked the art direction, but not the level designs. The combat wasn't deep enough for me. It was very unforgiving in the worst way, the way that just wastes your time. It was over 20 years ago though. • *_DMC2_* just didn't have good combat, that was the killer, but far from the only problem. We all know why that game failed, at least, we know well enough. • *_DMC3_* will always be the most fondly-remembered entry for two reasons: a) It came after the game that came before. It was a massively welcome surprise in attitude and combat. b) It had a fully-fleshed out and meaningful story, which makes it the ONLY game in the series ever to be truly well-rounded. ( *_DmC_* did better than most, but objectively still not very good in regards to story. ) • *_DMC4_* took the combat of *_DMC3_* to another level, with a seemingly infinite skill ceiling and player expression. It was the first game to really show the world how insane a combat system can really be. It also had a pretty good story, but every player noticed being asked to play through everything backwards again with Dante. They ran out of money, and you could feel it. Levels were frequently copy/paste, or lazy, or terrible, or incredibly frustrating. It had mazes, it had magic portals which just reshuffled the rooms, it had giant board games with spinning dice, it had enemies which appeared under you and sent you back, it had giant statue bosses that you got lost navigating. I have a love/hate relationship with that game. It drives me crazy. • *_DmC_* was great. So fresh and new, so modern, OK story, different more accessible combat. New and interesting characters, fantastically colourful and vibrant world compared to DMC4's completely static one. But then... red... and blue... enemies... I just... I thought it was like a temporary disability for one part of one level. But no... another level later and I was so angry I almost uninstalled right then and there. I just couldn't believe how STUPID they could be to implement something like this. One of the stupidest things I've ever seen in a AAA game. In a game people ONLY PLAY to make COMBOS, you cut the player off from ALMOST ALL OF HIS WEAPONS? I literally could hardly believe it. Then when CAPCOM fixed all those problems in the _Definitive Edition_ , then refused to bring it to PC, ignoring all their PC fans and making nonsensical excuses as to why, I just gave up and will probably never play it again. • *_DMC5_* was an interesting one, because firstly is has BY FAR the best combat system in any game ever. The weapons, the sheer number, how they work together, all the different modes and arms, V's familiars, the DSD mode, with *_DMC4_* I thought I'd seen it all, but I would even go as far as to say *_DMC5_* combat is as big a leap again. Once again I'm left wondering how on earth anyone could ever do much better. I can't see how it could be better. But man... the story of *_DMC5_* ... what a complete bread sandwich. If you remove V's familiars, there is almost NOTHING of flavour there at all. I think that's why they messed with the chronology so much, to hide it. Here's DMC5's story: A weird new guy shows up. There's a big new demon. They all try go beat it. They fail. They mostly split up. Dante gets a new form, making everyone else useless. Dante beats the new demon. SURPRISE. V + Ergil = Vergil. Wow. But his tower is a tree. You beat Vergil, again and again and again. Vergil is Nero's father??? Yes, we know. We've known that for 13 years. Dante and Vergil both leave. The end. And what're you left with? Lady and Trish Never do anything. Nico just drives and smokes. No V. No Dante. No Vergil. No Urizen. No Kyrie. No Mundus. Nothing. In terms of relevance to the series, you could have just said, _“Dante and Vergil meet up and go to the underworld.”_ That single sentence would have got you as far as the entire game. And what's more that's probably the end, forever. It literally could hardly have been worse / more disappointing. A sad fart and shuffle out for our beloved characters. And to top it all off, CAPCOM refused to bring THIS _Definitive Edition_ to PC too, saying, _“the PC couldn't handle it”_ . I mean, _excuse_ me? Just how _stupid_ does he think we are? I feel like the good wholesome feeling from DMC3 will never return now. I feel like it's over. That final spit in the mouth right at the end there. A sour, sour taste after so long.
DmC at launch was horrible for Donte... His combat was outdated compared to DMC1. In definitive edition... They removed that outdated combat system... But it's not a great game in comparison to the original. Reboot Vergil is the only good thing in the reboot, but it's not even about his character. Just his combat system. The wrest is worthless. The story... Forgettable and wasted. The script... Jeez, the God of War trilogy does better. The combat... It's mid but nothing amazing. Granted, the floating nature of air travel into air attacks is as if an indie dev worked on it. It lacks polish. Characters?... A waste of time. When DMC2 had better content despite its flaws, compared to the Reboot. You know there's something wrong... Right, Capcom, since that company wanted "changes" despite Ninja Theory's original plan. A bit out of touch but such is the higher ups.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 I'm just going to remind you that the critics and the users both rated *_DmC_* the highest in the series until *_DMC5_* just barely squeezed it out on Steam. The professional critics. And the players. That's basically everyone. They all loved it.
@@naryanr In Its own right... You're correct. But in competition at the time... There were better games and DmC wasn't that great before Definitive Edition. Once Definitive Edition was released. Most of the problems outside of the story was fixed. A solid game but the story/characters mocked the face of the original Devil May Cry franchise. If it wasn't DMC or if the reboot's story was written better, then it could be the best Devil May Cry of the modern time, second to DMC5. Unfortunately, whoever designed the story and script held the game back. Even for the Definitive Edition.
This is actually a good analogy. I’ve also thought both games had big connections. Some people just joins the hate train, in the process never giving the game a try and have an objective and original opinion. Same with dmc 2.
Oh no not DMC2. This one deserve all the hate. DmC is controversial due to the game try to reboot the story, BUT the gameplay was good, still feel like an actual DMC game. DMC2 on the other hand just trash to begin with. Still remember the very first time I play and I was like wtf is this slow ass game? This is not DMC game at all. The only way I can see DMC2 get redemption if Capcom decided to remake the game with actual DMC style
@@JeyvaSaplus the combos are generally just there to look cool, but are not actually effective at all. Rebellion takes care of the enemies better and faster then the scythe or hammer. Not to mention they feel like they are just slower rebellion, and faster rebellion. When rebellion is literally better than both, which is why I think they color coded enemies to begin with. The weapons didn’t have enough utility to be likely to be used as was. So they ham fisted a reason to use them more that sucked.
I definitely noticed that DMC5 is a spiritual successer to DmC lots of people did but I think this video definitely helps paint the picture for people who missed it
It seemed more like a spiritual sequel to DMC3 to me. It seemed like it leaned much more heavily on the themes of family than DMC 1 where the familial theme was more in the background, 2 where it was nonexistent, 4 where it was only really touched on or DMC where the protagonist never even had a family until Vergil appeared, but very much in line with the spirit of 3 where the entire story was focused around Dante's familial connections right from the beginning. Gameplay wise, it's pretty much unmistakably much more like a sequel to 4 when it comes to Dante and Nero mechanics, V's monster controlling style probably does have some inspiration in another action game, but I'm not familiar with what it would be, his Devil Trigger does kind of resemble DMC DMC though with the white hair and powerful external effect rather than the other entries' method of powering up the player while it's active, and enemies take inspiration from all five other entries.
I played the reboot a few months back for the first time doing a series playthrough like you. Has some flaws, but that game was overhated and I loved it’s artstyle so much. The story was actually interesting and I feel like some of it’s lore like the idea of Nephilim coudl still work or angels being a pivotol role to canon DMC.
@@theswig2339 If you're up for a character action game with Nephilim playing a central role, the Darksiders series has you covered. Focus on Nephilim mainly becomes a thing from Darksiders 2 onwards and they're not full-on character action games (as in, there's other gameplay aspects such as Zelda-like dungeons and puzzles), but the combat is a solid part of it. Late 2022 had the release of a game by name of Soulstice that *is* more in line with a lot of character action games. The devs have stated a few times they'd like to become like a European PlatinumGames and have taken examples and inspiration from a number of different games in the genre (as well as some manga), while still on the road to carving out an own identity. DMC: DmC has been an inspiration on Soulstice's combat as well. There is a color coding system too, but all of the seven weapons total are viable against any enemy. You just need to cast a forcefield of either red or blue color that moves alongide the player character, and there's controller remapping options to make it easier. Outside of that, there's dial combos as i believe they're called: All weapons have a combo string of generally about five hits. If you go Sword - Sword - Warhammer - Bladed Whip - Punch Daggers, you'll get the warhammer's third hit of its own combo string, the whip's fourth hit of its combo string, etc. Plus, there's a thing where you can end a pause combo string with a special finisher, depending on what weapon you finish the string with and if your Special Meter is filled up. There's a lot more. Drags on a bit and there's some annoying enemy types, but generally Soulstice is a very solid game in the genre.
@@Thonato420 Let me preface by saying I think they're both good games. DMC 3: I thought the tower was really "samey." There wasn't too much of a change of scenery. Combined with all of the backtracking, it made it feel like a chore. I also thought that it had too much of a "Zelda boss" feeling for my taste (hit him in the x, then punish). While some of the bosses were fun, others were just a slog (centipede, Jester, Balrog). I also think it was tuned a tad difficult compared to the rest of the series. It also got rid of the good Air Raid. I thought the enemy selection was slightly flat. How many "guys with scythes" do you need? DMC 5: The story was just a massive letdown and didn't exactly make sense with the rest of the series (pierced by sword = superpowers). It was overstuffed for what it was. Playing as Vergil helps, because you can skip it. It relied too heavily on fan service, but somehow didn't include Lucia or Phantom. The way playing characters worked out left you with too little time to play each character, leaving me unsatisfied. Just when I'm in my groove, it's time to switch. Bosses were unmemorable or fan servicey. The tree was aesthetically ugly (the city was great, though). Vergil's return was such an ass pull after he died. Also, they took away Nero's good arm, which was like 50% of the fun of playing as him. Also, the enemies were just bland bugs or rehashed DMC1 enemies (mostly). Also, it was baby-easy, even on hard. On DMC2: I put DMC2 over it, because Lucia was extremely fun, it had a ton of cool bosses, had Air Raid (good edition), its own Sin DT, a badass final boss, didn't shove story in the way of gameplay, had great aesthetics in enemy design, and had 2 lengthy campaigns. I hope that makes sense.
You’re almost there. DMCV is actually a reworked DmC 2. It starts off nearly identical to where DmC left off(Vergil half dead summoning demons.) and completes both Vergil’s redemptive arcs. I mean, all the story is is a fight tower. All they did was massage the story a bit to fit the OG DMC characters instead. Hell it even has the same SPARDA HOUSE from DmC.
@@umbasamufasa9676 Nah he means its like a reworked sequel to DmC, not a DMC2 remake. It picks up from Vergils Downfall and continues from there, but implements it in the main series Story. I guess it's why they never adress where Vergil was all these years between DMC1 and 5. You have to kinda pick it up from the reboot. and make what you want from that.
It's just the end of the sons of sparda saga. I do agree with you except for Capcom having Nero for a next installment, people care about Dante a lot more. I wouldn't have a problem with spinoffs though. Dante is Devil May Cry
Is kinda funny that This bullshit about the end of the sons of the sparda saga was never even said by anyone in the DMC5 development team or the director hideaki itsuno, i even search that statement and never saw this bullshit said by anyone that worked in DMC5 development. This bullshit is made up by jornalists and people that like the shit reboot and talk shit about the original series, Saying that the reboot is superior, is clear that is not, the reboot fucked the whole narrative and lore about the legendary dark night sparda being a legendary warrior and his legendary twin sons with opposite personality and different motivations in life.
@@gabszz The devs didn't say it was the end of the sons of sparda saga, but it did get marketed that way by Capcom. The journalists only spread word that the publishers and devs allow it to be spread that way via permission. The leaks did say it sooner, now the reviews say it too, even if you play it a couple of times you'd know it had given closure to all the characters and the series. Not a lot of people are experts in understanding the series, but hopefully few people do. Look, every video game has its pros and cons - DMC5 has superior combat and abilities compared to the reboot, the reboot has superior level design and platforming compared to DMC5. Both of their plots age like cheese, let's be honest but the reboot has more simple storytelling if you don't see it as a DMC game, DMC5 on the other hand is a sequel that really needs the previous installments to be fully understood, chronologically (the recap alone is useless and anyone who thinks it's helpful is a casual). As for Sparda, I know that DmC fans (fans of the reboot) wanted to be part of the large crowd and make up nonsense about him in hell with Dante and Vergil, they're still in denial that the original has nothing to do with the reboot - it just got retconned thanks to DMC4 and DMC2 switching places but it didn't ruin the story entirely. Now the reboot may have some influence under DMC5 gameplay wise and easter egg wise, but, it didn't ruin 5's plot. I said "I wouldn't have a problem with spinoffs though." That's still up to Capcom if they want to since DMC5 was Itsuno's final DMC game and judging from the gaming industry always changing and moving towards the Soulslikes, it might not happen. - they do seem more eager on franchises like Resident Evil and Monster Hunter along with their new IP, Pragmata. I did get irritated by people mixing OG Sparda with reboot Sparda, they either don't know what they're saying or they're just causing an uproar in the fanbase.
@@TonyRedgrave-of9od i don't think it gave closure to the characters, specially because Dante pretty much had his development in DMC3 gaining his sense of responsability because of lady and her father fight. going to DMC1 sealing mundus again and making his revenge about his mother death. pretty much dante went full circle on DMC3 to DMC1 in development, in DMC4 he is more like a teacher and master to the young Nero. In DMC5 he still the master and more experience one in comparison to Nero. But he find it out vergil was still alive after DMC1 story. Dante and vergil fought, and because of nero their deadly rivalry ended. And they fight like friends and like a sport thing, dante and vergil become real family in the end of DMC5 that why Dante went with vergil this time, unlike the DMC3 ending were vergil went alone to the underworld. But there is still so much more to discover. Who is Nero mother? What really happend to sparda? In the first game it said by the narrator that sparda vanished and died, by the anime two demons who fought on sparda side said that sparda went to the demon world and nobody saw him again. Another thing is, the lore of the whole franshise was kinda changed in DMC5 nico files. It was new information there about sparda lore, he having one sword that represent his full power, that he divided into 3 parts becoming new 3 swords, rebellion, yamato, and the devil sword sparda. And in the DMC5 dante fused the rebellion and the sparda sword once more, but there is still one more Yamato. And in DMC1 mundus was not fully recovery yet against Dante that was only using the sparda sword. In DMC1 mundus still had a big whole in his chest probaly because of sparda, and There is a comic book about DMC1 i don't remember the title but shows mundus his chest fully regenerated and even nelo angelo talking in DMC1. They changing the lore and making sparda full power being the main swords as one make pretty much mundus in DMC1 not in his prime, since he was still hurt by the fight with sparda and was sealed for thousand of years being recently free. Capcom could make a DMC6 using all this, showing Nero mother, and reveling what happened to sparda, making mundus come back since he was still injured in DMC1 and sealed once again. And fusing the 3 main swords to finally taking down mundus on his full prime.
@@gabszz Sparda didn't vanish, he passed away and his family made a proper burial for him months before Mundus sent demons to attack the twins and Eva. Why is it even necessary to know who Nero's mother is? In DMC4: Deadly Fortune, it was revealed that she was a human prostitute and her name was Ashleigh and left Nero to another family. Vergil had an important role to Nero than Ashleigh did. That DMC1 comic book got cancelled because the people that worked on it were being paid less, and that was the publisher's fault. I've heard couple of times about Dante's development ended with DMC1-DMC3 but even his mentor role still counts as a development, not to mention he's the face of the franchise, there's no way Nero could lead the series without Dante, he's OP yes but people like him because he's cool. He was handled poorly in both DMC2 and DMC4. Dante did have development in DMC5 when he absorbed his father's sword with the rebellion. I don't have any concerns with the yamato, it doesn't need to change - and that's fine. Dante went to the underworld with Vergil because he didn't want to go through the same depression he had experienced in DMC3, and this can help Dante come to terms with himself and teach Vergil how to embrace his humanity, just like his father, Sparda and his nephew, Nero. That's a perfect way to give closure to these characters because they deserve a happy ending. I think dragging Mundus (who is said to be dead along with Argosax in DMC5: Visions of V, the manga is still ongoing and like Deadly Fortune, it's retelling the game's plot in a deeper way) is useless because, he did say he would return but the spinoff manga said he got killed by Dante, this man isn't legendary for show, he had to finish his leftovers. I know, the world in the series has potential for more but it's fine to end it this way, DMC5 is a retcon and fanservice to end the DmC fiasco that had angered many fans. We all have different opinions because it's a single player game and people understand the series differently, it's understandable. I'm one of those who is happy with what we got and DMC5's story may not be better than DMC3's, it did focus on Dante, Vergil (or V) and Nero for a reason. I'm happy that Itsuno made the DMC game he always wanted to make and this being the canonical end to the series gave him the chance that he can do a better job in making a good game.
Long story short: if you want to apply a set of modernizing ideas to an established franchise, use them to lovingly continue the story, not to recklessly discard it. That alone can be the difference between ROCK HARD SUCCESS and abject failure.
"...what you fear would come like an explosion its like a whisper and what you thought was the end is the beginning... " you got me there... amazing video! wholesome content im a DmC hardcore fan ♥ so sad we will never had any new content from the "not Dante" Dante...
Same! I feel hardstuck fans put too much against it and thinks it’s trying to replace the OGVDante ( Change isn’t bad for a series that’s this long and has the chance to die or beat it with a stick, Dante in DMC legit wasn’t even try hard edgy he just was and it fit, and it’s another universe, a spin-off. No need to hate in it so bad )
The title is wrong, here's why. dmc5 is literally, and I mean literally, dmc4 repackaged. with the story of dmc3 added in, vergil as the main villain, cerberus boss battle, etc. This is dmc4 and dmc3 mixed. Takes absolutely no influence from ninja dmc. The combos are heavily borrowed from dmc4, with weapons that return from dmc 3. Even the sound track is very much DMC. Ninja theory dmc is literally its own thing. And if anything, that game tried to recreate dmc 4, with graphics and level design, but to top it off, ninja theory added a unique twist to its games atmosphere. However, the combat itself was more akin to ninjas previous titles. Ninja did not like dmc3, so they preferred to make a combo system that fell flat on release, they had to patch it.
found it hilarious how everyone thought nero in the dmc5 trailer reveal was dante from the reboot then when they showed his sword getting revved up everyone was happy as hell hahah love dmc5
before a new DMC entry to the story's continuation, they better focus on *Sparda* that's somethign that has to be done Sparda almost had a game on the vita but Capcom called it off 7 months in a few years ago I'm just saying, Sparda is the foundation of DMC lore we *need* a game to play as him offically and not using a sparda skin mod or dlc skin, we need the real thing and his story to be played because Sparda is the legend that we hear about but never get to see in action on his job, I'd love to play it
It seems unlikely to me that they'd make another DMC game anytime soon. 5 worked well, but the director has been giving the impression that he's interested in making a Dragon's Dogma sequel before another DMC game. Capcom could hand off the IP to another developer, but they've also given the impression that they wanted to be a lot more hesitant with outsourcing in more recent years, so that seems somewhat unlikely too.
I hate how Dante has just become more and more of a joke. DMC 2 was a shoddy game, but that Dante was visually a MUCH cooler and Iconic character than the ones that followed. Mysterious, quiet, badass design and demeanor. Fit for a DEMON who isn't really human.
DMC5 has more loveable characters than DmC. DmC tone is bit more serious while DMC5 hept its comedic style like its previous games. DmC was not a bad game but it was also not what the fan were requesting for it. However, I am glad DmC was released ın 2013 and not DMC5 since the technology improved a lot in PS4 era and DMC5 was a fucking blast.
Another major difference between Nero and reboot Dante Nero is not as cynical. Nero just likes to act like a punk but he really does have a good heart when Virgil First shows up looking like a homeless zombie Nero's first thought is that maybe this guy needs help and something to eat and he offers him some food I think a reboot Dante would have just told him to f*** off which would be understandable LOL reboot Dante has one night stands with strippers / prostitutes Nero is completely devoted to one woman. People pick up on little things like this which makes Nero far more likable
These ARE superficial similarities, quite a few of which aren't even really there. Nero standing up to Vergil has nothing to do with having a "problem with authority", and that by itself wouldn't be a problem anyway. Especially since Nero is a separate character, so it doesn't mean Dante is being turned unrecognizable. Nor does he have Donte's most obnoxious traits. Nice observation about Kat, but... who ever complained about Kat, her outfit or her driving a car? If anything, people complained that she's bland and generic. It's not a dealbreaker to end the existing canon if there's an emotionally satisfying conclusion. After DMC4, there were lots of loose ends, and reboots usually axe a canon for good. DMC5 tied them all up and respected its roots, rather than ridiculing them and insulting the fans along the way. Story and characters aside, the GAMEPLAY is a major aspect above all else. Fans wanted fighting mechanics with so much depth, you can easily spend hundreds of hours mastering them, to make mind-boggling combo-videos. This was never Ninja Theory's forte, but it's the major selling point of Devil May Cry. If DMC:DMC had DMC5's combat, much would have been forgiven.
I hate DMC fanboys so much, they really think DMC5 is a full original game, but there's a lot of things in gameplay and in history that came from DmC. Hypocrites.
I'm one of those people who liked DmC Devil May Cry, and I still kind of feel like this is a stretch even though it is clear Itsuno doesn't loathe DmC 2013 the way he hates DMC2, which is why you see some creative influence spilling into DMC5 as he's not just dismissing that game's existence
DmC: Devil May Cry has two of the greatest things in the franchise. Combat and the beautifully awesome level designs. Lilith's Club in Limbo is absolutely amazing to the ears and especially to the eyes.
I never thought of the Kat and Nico thing. That's interesting. I also think they took the color scheme for DmC Vergil, and applied it at least a bit to DMC5 Vergil. Also I don't think Vergil ever did that "Portal Cut" thing till DmC, which he used a couple times in DMC5. Also I sincerely hope they don't ditch Dante and Vergil. I mean they're not dead, and working together now. And they're in Hell where I'm sure really crazy shit can happen. Nero being the lead I can understand though.
I think the reason people were so mad when DmC was announced was for similar reasons for people being unstable towards Ghost Busters 2016, because it was viewed as a reboot rather than a spin-off it made the fans feel like that was going to replace the main series and that was going Devil May Cry from now on until DMC 5 came out and actually felt like a spiritual reboot of the franchise satisfying both old and new fans.
Yes, only the job and accent. Absolutely nothing else, like you know, the whole personality and character. Kat doesn't even give you the power ups, she sends you to a place for a completely different reason and you just happen to find the weapons there. By this logic you could compare any character who gives power ups to the main character. I mean wow I never realized Nice was just the weapons shop owner from Skyrim.
@@antelasic1950 not really. Their point is that the format of the character was heavily and poorly recycled. It’s their series, so Dark Souls comparison has nothing to do with it since it’s its own game and series from DMC ( because in life every thing is sort of mimicked ). Cap com for this series, could’ve made it a loss less obvious for true and new fans to see this recycled garbage ( don’t get me wrong, love both games. Just word of choice ) , and they only just made her very outspoken in comparison to Kat.
@@iTacolot How is it recycled? The characters act completely differently, their purpose in the story is different, the design isn't even that similar. In what way is she just more outspoken? You can't write down the different personality to "she's just more outspoken". By the same logic Dante's personality is just like Vergil's if he was more outspoken. Kat is very serious, she only there to send Dante to a new place, her whole story is treated like some drama that needs to be taken seriously. Nico is serious about as often as Kyrie is onscreen in 5, she has a more confident and brash personality (which has a nice twist when she turns into a Dante fangirl), she makes weapons for others and that's the extent of her story (her backstory is mentioned like twice isn't trying to be some big serious plot point. Nico is obviously fine with what happened in the past and doesn't let that influence her.), and just because there's one scene where Kat drives a car is nowhere close to the screen time and attention the van and Nico's driving get's in 5. But yes, other than that, there is no difference. None whatsoever.
@@antelasic1950 i like kat, she cant fight but can support with everything she can, but clearly i dont like Kyrie, see just damsel in distress and do nothing, she doesn't even have enough screen time to show more personality
@@umbasamufasa9676 Yes. Remake is like, remaking something that is already exists out of the original with adding new things to it but leaving the old stuffs in. but Reboot, is completely different and making something a lot new! Which is the example of DmC.
I can accept DmC and DMC-V being the "same" game in spirit. I see it as a case of "It's not what you said, it's the way you said it". Both are endings and new beginnings. But while DMC-V felt more like a fond farewell, a long, warm, embrace and a toast to the future. It's bittersweet but at least you know, your old friends will be alright and you feel hopeful for whatever comes next. The reboot on the other hand, initially felt like a kick to the groined. And honestly, taking in all the points you've given. DmC, now feels less of a reboot and just the Beta Stage of V.
There are some similarities between both games. I think Nero was always a rebel type but I found Nero endearing. I can’t remember his name but the director of 5 over saw the reboot so obviously he took some of the best elements for 5.
you are brave indeed to be taking that stand lol. Just making this video got me flamed so hard on a TON of DMC fan boards...but i stand with you that both are good BUT DmC teaches you how to be very skilled with a single character by the end. DMCV teaches you to be only kind of skilled with 3 different ones by the end...
You can tell how much does people in the comment section knows about DMC in general. Dante isn't cool. He's just severely depressed all the time. He's quite literally just coping.
I've been looking for such a video ever since I played DMCV in 2019, but you've provided more parallels than I had thought of. Thanks for the awesome insight, cheers to all who enjoy the best of both worlds!
I liked the video!! I don't entirely agree but loved the vid, and can see your points. With Nero though, he had that problem with authority and cocky personality in Devil May Cry 4 itself, they didn't need to look to the Reboot to craft him that way. Also V is a much more mysterious and detached of a character to Nero, than Vergil is to Reboot Dante. I love the similarities you found though. At its core the reboot is still the more generic entry with blander gameplay, pretty unmemorable dialogue/interactions, and just doesn't have a much creative energy in it. Vergil being who he was also spoiled it for so many people, I don't blame them.
The problem with DMC reboot is not the change in Dante's archetype or gameplay. The main issue is that Dante in DMC 2013 behaves like a parody of the original Dante. He behaves like a teenager, always losing it. Dante in DMC 5 and 3 is usually a jerk with demons and foes, but he's never bitching about anything. Some ideas may be the same in DMC5, but the execution is way better.
You're making some interesting points, but I'm afraid that your arguments are standing on wrong assumptions to begin with, which is what invalidates them. Many of the things that you compare, you have to oversimplify in order to make them fit together. For example, when you mention that Kat and Nico are both "human companions", which is ridiculous since there's no way they could be anything else other than humans to begin with, along with the fact that we've had human companions before (there are also more examples in the "similarities" you mentioned like this one). You're also getting stuff wrong with backstories and then fitting them together. For example Kat was "abused" by her father and so was Nico, according to you, but fail to see that that's tying in DMC4 and DMC5 since Agnus is Nico's father, and he was obsessed with his research more than anything (also he never abused Nico). And finally you're trying to make connections where there are none, like Dino denying authority and so does Nero at the end of DMC5. Nero doesn't deny anything at the end, he is overwhelmed by the fact that his supposed father abandoned him and his mother and now suddenly shows up in front of him, and he's pretty pissed. Here's the ways DmC influenced DMC. Camera became free instead of fixed, Style got an announcer, final kill has a slowdown. That's pretty much all it did. You also showed the environment changing in DmC and the floor breaking in DMC5 to assume similarity, when it's nowhere close the same thing and it also happens ONCE in DMC5, and you did the same with Urizen's beam attack and Bob's attack. That's ridiculous. Was there no laser attack before DmC? (There was, Nefasturris) . If you read this, I hope you won't take it as an "attack" or something, because this isn't what it's meant to be. It's just me pointing out that you're drawing false equivalents where there are no similarities, either due to completely different meanings, your oversimplifications, or failing to take into consideration the similarities between DMC5 and all previous DMC series along with what DmC borrowed from the rest of the series.
To be honest I don't see the similarities between V and DmC Vergil... while they do serve similar roles, not only is V only trying to simply, you know, survive, due to the yamato separating him from Vergil, but he also shows a lot more character than DmC Vergil in my opinion... He never set out for power and openly says that he regrets his past actions... in the end he only rejoins Urizen in order to live... in a way, fix his mistakes
Finally someone not blinded by nostalgia! Dmc actually tried to give us a story beyond “Virgil has returned! Go kick his ass…again” also it always bothered me how humanity seems unaware of demon even though major cities get decimated every couple of years like how is there no anti demon army in the original series. Dmc has its problems sure but I’m someone who doesn’t like Japanese corniness I’d say Devil May Cry isn’t perfect either.
I see a lot of people talking about how DmC took ideas from DMC4, but I'm not agreeing with them. Adding to the points you've made in your video, I'd like to say that DMC5 FEELS more like DmC from a gameplay standpoint as well. The level design has more in common with the reboot than the games released prior to 2013, and each level sees you in a different location every time, whereas DMC1-4 often saw you exploring the same section of the same place two or three levels in a row with just slight variation before you move on. The plot in DMC5 feels more like 2013, too, and not just in the ways you mentioned. Where previously, DMC was mostly a streamlined experience chronologically, with very few time skips between levels, 2013 introduced us to a plotline that unfolds over days, maybe even weeks, and DMC5's story spans a couple months (or at least A month, now I gotta play it again to remind myself) Anyway, that's my two cents
The reason fans initially rejected the reboot is it wasn't time for one yet. We just had DMC 4 shortly before the reboot was even a thing. We just got introduced to Nero and we knew there was potential to his character. Nero not liking "Authority" like Donte isn't even a thing. He didn't like being called Deadweight by his mentor and uncle Dante. Another reason fans rejected DmC, we wanted closure to the original universe, Capcom was in a weird phase of hating certain franchises when Inafune left the company. DmC showed this in the literal sense, Resident Evil Operation Racoon City also showed this. Somewhere, Capcom found itself again, liking itself again. We can argue when Inafune left, Capcom became that angst Teenager angry the father of Mega Man left. Than we saw Capcom became the mature Adult, having game collections of its classic franchises to get back into the swing of things, gave us Mega Man 11 and than DMC5 and reigniting the relationship between itself and the fans once again
In my opinion, DMC 2013 would have been great if it wasn’t a Devil May Cry game. Everyone had came to love the Devil hunters of the series and felt that everything they love was thrown aside, if it wasn’t given the title of a beloved series it would have gotten more people to love it.
But its still a better dmc game then 2 and 4. This series was a mess way before the reboot happened. They has no where to go with the story and dmc5 put the series to rest unless you really want Nero to get his own games which nobody should want that. DMC has nowhere to go now unless you guess it a reboot.
@@edl4767 there are two things that the main franchise can do, make an origin game for Sparda since we know literally nothing about him except what we are told. Or make a game where Mundus returns to target Nero and Kyrie, which then Dante's son shows up to help Nero to stop him. (I say this because the last dialogue that Mundus and Dante have on Mallet Island.)
@@edl4767 Literally most fans like Nero after 5, and there are plenty of stories to tell no he is the lead. Only reason DmC is ok at best is because Itsuno had to come over to ninja theory and literally hold their hand. Go back to shit Donte.
@@edl4767 Better than 2, yes, it's gameplay is memed for good reason. Better than 4, I'd say not. Aside from 5 which straight copied it and then added on, DMC 4 probably has the most enjoyable player mechanics in the franchise, and had great choices when it came to art and colour use that made battlefields easy to process at a glance. I'd hands down replay 4 over 1 and while it might sound controversial, 3, any day. 5 is probably still better overall, the additions to player mechanics from 4 and better enemy variety probably make up for the less clear art style.
Fair points, itsuno did say he liked the reboot, so obviously he'll puts the elements he liked in 5. Some of the similarities are absolutly coincidences thu😂
When virgil comes to gets his katana back from nero in dmc5, his stance exactly resembles virgil from DmC virgils downfall at beginning. Capcom tried to satisfiy new fans in many ways.
True... But you're fishing for nothing... The reboot is irrelevant to DMC5 since any new player wouldn't know the reboot to begin with. And even if they did... All for what?... A small showing of nothing? It's not even an easter egg to pay homage to the reboot. Or in other words... The reboot doesn't have anything substantial in DMC5 outside of reused assets for cool reasons rather than respect for a failed reboot.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Hideaki Itsuno stated that he was a fan of DmC. He really liked that game. So yeah, there might be really respect for that game involved when re-using the things that worked.
@@Traumglanz Respect is one thing. Making another DmC is another. I doubt DmC 2 will be created after everything that went down with DmC at launch. Now... DmC did end better with Definitive Edition compared to its vanilla version. The vanilla version had both performance issues and Dante's terrible Color Combat System which Ninja Theory removed in the Definitive Edition. Vergil's kit was good. Character wise, the story was trying too hard to be edgy.
I'm actually glad that DmC wasn't getting a sequel, otherwise we would not have the absolute goat, dmc5 I kinda liked DmC (artstyle, gameplay, soundtrack wise) but damn does it have probably the edgiest story I had ever seen 💀
Don't be embarrassed or ashamed that you like something just don't be as extreme as the g.c.b.a or as we all know as the goku can beat anybody dude and no im not calling you that im just try to show a example
Stfu about DmC being a great game if it was its own ip instead of devil may cry. It literally has a okayish storyline which wouldve been better originally from the TGS trailer.
DmC was a good game. It just didn’t deserve to be a “DevilMayCry” game. Like it actually comes off as a tumblr fanfic from teenage girl who wanted it as an ultra western edgy noir fantasy in the roots of America ghetto aesthetic
Honestly, I thought I was the only one who caught onto this only I felt like that DMC five took inspiration more on every single major game, including the reboot, rather than just reboot alone, but it definitely made a solid foundation for the fifth game.
Personally I like DMC. I like the concepts of the demons being mundane things used on humans to keep them sedated and docile. It was abit more interesting than just a demon. Like the symbolism of demonizing stuff you come across everyday like the media feels like it has more thought put into it. Oh well. As someone who's played very little vanilla devil may cry I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak. All I can really say is, I like DMC.
For all its said about DMC5 Nero being DmC Dante's doppleganger, I always thought he seemed more like Drew from the canceled Scalebound, which isn't surprising given that he was pretty much like a Nero anyway. What with his Dev-I mean Dragon Bringer and it was to be made by a bunch of ex-Capcom guys in Platinum Games. Plus there's also ex-NJPW/AEW wrestler Cody Rhodes as another possible inspiration for Nero. preview.redd.it/ygsyt32ox8311.png?auto=webp&s=522588e429ac1a0d9f7923ac36e3b9baa501fc7a pbs.twimg.com/media/DlKcuxkXcAIciMk.jpg
Were you really trying to say Kat was the first booty short and boot wearing female in the series because Lady would like to have a word with you. But I'll be real. The reason I was disappointed in the DmC reboot is for a myriad of small reasons that builds up to a bigger implication. DMC4 was trying to add so much to the gameplay of the series by giving us a more accessible and fun command grab style character that also rewards staying on rhythm with your attacks to greatly boost their damage and change their properties to extend combos. While also introduced style switching and Dante being able to hold more than 2 weapons of guns and devil arms. Liberating Dante's abilities and giving him full access to his arsenal at the users discretion. So to me DmC needed to show me what about the gameplay was missing. I think we can all agree the story was definitely a downgrade but I didn't tty to focus on that during my playthrough. I just wanted to know what new things Dante can do. Dante loses style switching and styles in general for a more generalized moveset. This came at to great cost for a lot of the controls. No styles means no style button which means Dante's combo structure had to be more universal like being able to Aerial Rave without sword master and instead replacing what would've been Dante shooting his guns at two enemies or using dashes and teleports is now instead a launcher button. Removed a huge grip of Dante's move pool just for a single universal launcher button was a big fat no in my book. Then to top if all off his weapons were boring and I found using the shoulder buttons for weapon switching obnoxious. They were boring in the sense of lacking any gameplay identity. Demon weapons were the slow strong weapons and Angel Weapons were the fast Crowd Control weapons. Which homogenized Dante's playstyle which was now Demon for damage, rebellion for filler, and angels for crowd control. They had very little interesting interactions outside of the delay combos allowing you to access the other weapons finisher during a switch. But I felt that was a band aid to the glaring hole that is now missing which was the style system. The reasons people loved weapons like Nevan, Beowulf, Pandora, Artemis, and Lucifer was how the style system allowed for completely different approaches with the same weapons. Nevan is a long range weapon but with Swordmaster now you can use close range combos, Artemis could rain a hail of lasers with Gunslinger, and Lucifer will always be deemed as one Dante's most technical weapon due to the amount of planning needed for to be used at a comfortable level. When compared to just about any other weapon in the series DmC's weapons feel awfully generic even when compared to something like Alistar and Ifrit from DMC1. That was largely due to the fact of how different your movepool becomes when you DT in DMC1. Which is anything that bugged me about DmC. Devil Trigger just sucked I hated how it turned the whole screen a different color and for mass majority of fights was just a screen clearer. I couldn't tell you how different DmC Dante's DT felt because of how fast it allowed me to kill enemies even on the higher difficulties. If he gets more cancelable moves or even new unique ones like in DMC1 & 3 I have no idea. Then another thing that made me realize this game wasn't for me was the Bob Barbos fight. My friends were hyping up how this was the best boss in the game and when it started I thought the design was interesting but as soon as I saw the gimmick appear I broke the entire boss fight. If you remember one of the reasons people love this fight is because as you're fighting demons Bob makes them appear as normal humans that Dante is styling on. But you know what really sucks about that? You don't need to kill a single additional enemy during that whole sequence. So I was just watching Bob talk mad shit as Dante ran in a circle not hitting anything. Then it just progresses you to the next phase of the fight because it's based on a timer and not enemy kill count making the entire sequence actually pointless and makes what should've been a edgy seen just a complete and utter joke. Hit the 3 switches wail on Bob and done. If anyone likes that Boss fight they can go eat glue. Which is how I felt about all Boss fights in DmC. Just a horrible and gimmicky fights that add no substance to any of my decision making during the fights. Look at Credo from DMC4 it's viewed as one of the best boss fights due to all the interesting interactions you can make during his fight. But somehow they made boss fights less interesting then the giant flying centipede. At least that thing had elemental weaknesses which made you think about weapon choices a lot more and was actually a helpful mechanic in the next boss fight. I would've loved DmC if they actually kept anything about the gameplay that gave it it's own unique flavor but instead made some homogenized Dante and gave us a lot of basic af boss designs that I don't care about. And again nothing to do with story on my side just how generic the combat and enemies felt. Itsuna was on the design team but that doesn't help me with anything that just makes me more afraid for the series even after DMC5. Idk how a Dev of a popular series got so out of touch with what fans loved about the series and that they completely change the gameplay from the ground up. Also I know SE fixed a lot of problems with the game but too many of my issues with it are the core mechanics I can't escape from. I don't even care about the minor improvements it's not the kind of combat I want. Never forgive color coded enemies that can only be hurt by a specific weapon type. That was just fucking dumb.
@@umbasamufasa9676 nah not really lmao, most of you points were “they look similar” and “Nero has short hair now” yes we already know that itsuno loves the DmC reboot so he took inspiration for it. But the notion that it’s the same game is ridiculous.
That's DmC fans coping mechanism, they want to believe that DMC5 is more of a DmC than the actual continuation of the original and already established DMC.
I'll take DmC over most of the mainline games any day of the week for the stages alone. The fact that it feels like the levels themselves are fighting you every step of the way on top of the enemies is something no other game in the series has ever come close too.
yes, you're right EXCEPT, people crying about the reboot DID "save" the series because if they didn't you'd be stuck with the continuation of the truly awful writing of the reboot, not to mention not a single really likable character.
I think dante matured by the end to be less brazen than he was at the begginning and willing to accept more responsability. Give him a few years and he may have become someone similar to dantes awakenings version of dante...
@@umbasamufasa9676 HMMAYBE, unless the rebootverse went through a serious tone change I can't really see Donte developing into anything like Dante. tho, I feel even if the writing was less "Shakespearean", I feel the reboot would've been met with a lukewarm reception at best, seeing how nobody wanted anything to change, people were happy with what DMC was. Personally, I think a reboot was doomed to fail regardless of the writing and tone. If too different, people wouldn't consider it "proper" Devil may cry, if too similar, they would've said that the reboot did nothing new and was pointless, truly a lose-lose situation, that I don't think had any chance working in any timeline. Also to touch on the comparisons you drew between Donte and Nero in 5 ama have to disagree on some of it. character design-wise I agree, I do also think Nero took some inspiration from the design of Donte. however the idea that Nero was "westernized" I disagree with, despite the entire game looking less anime and more realistic I don't think they change much of anything, and his DT is the most anime shit I've ever seen! as for the actual CHARACTER of Nero, he didn't "get" all those traits after the reboot, HE HAD THEM IN DMC 4! i don't know if that was what you were trying to imply but he sure as hell didn't get them from Donte. Nero always had an "edge" attitude, he swore a lot in 4, just like he does in 5 (tho he does swear more in 5), and he always had problems with authority, that's like one of the main highlights of the first cutscene after you beat Dante in the tutorial! (And he had snatch in DMC 4, and he used it for platforming, so you can't really say that THAT was an influence from DmC either) basically what I'm saying is that Donte is Nero taken to a distasteful extreme. But I do think that all the other points you brought up in the video are very valid and make sense! good video man!
Ok, so I could write an essay on everything you got wrong (like how you only look at the characters surface traits, or how Nero acts the same way he does in 4 and if anything Dante in DmC was copying him (really poorly)) but I'll just focus on the main thing you seem to have left out of this comparison. DmC dumbed down the gameplay mechanics while 5 not only advanced them from the reboot but from 4 as well, making one the most mechanically complex games out there (You know, the main reason people play these games). I swear people who think fans don't like DmC because Dante doesn't have white hair should really look at two games more closely.
Now while I would disagree that it's a reboot, I won't lie, I can see there's a lot of similiarites, for 5 and DmC. At least you helped me realize it. And if you ask me, I'd love to see a sequel in DmC. I would love to see Ninja Theory's take on Nero and Kyrie. I hope they can actually make Kyrie more plot relevant rather than just being a background character/damsel in distress. Also those dislikes. Yikes.
You understand they have sword that can cut reality and can come back when ever they feel like it and no way was anything just pushed back but was fixed
Honestly they should have taken a page out of the reboot's environment and level design. The levels in DMC5 looked bland as hell and were literally a straight line.
For me, I think a lot of the comparisons raised here are simplified to the point of being worthless, Kat and Nico for example. Aside from that, this is really stuff we already knew since Itsuno stated multiple times that he was bringing in some of the stuff that worked in the reboot. Itsuno has also stated that his favorite DMC game was the reboot. Aside from that, I think the big difference is that the reboot gave many reasons for longtime fans to be upset while DMC5 didn't. The redesign got backlash and Capcom/Ninja Theory took shots at the fans, the infamous "not in a million years" scene was taken as a insult by the fanbase, the game only ran 30fps on consoles when every other entry have run at 60, a completely different control scheme, and color coded enemies (an annoyance in every action game ever made.) DMC 5 made it very clear early on and it's very clear in the final product that it is for the fans of DMC. This is why DMC5 doesn't have puzzles or platform sections: fans don't like them. DMC5 did it's best to win fans over while the reboot, in the eyes of the fans, did everything it could to piss them off. That's what I think is the key between the reboot and DMC5. The similarities may be very similar but the differences are very different.
Btw v didn't turn against dante and nero because v is vergil's humanity while urizen is his demon side and in the end vergil didn't want to fight so much because he learned to embrase his humanity because v's memories
So, basically, they learned from their failures, cut the fat, and kept what was good from the reboot while going back to the original story everyone preferred. Yeah, this is exactly what everyone wanted. no wonder DmC V has been so beloved.
Yeah, I'm sorry but people that hated DMC either never played it or were so immovable in their expectations they didn't give it a chance. That came constantly wowed me with how it presented the demon world inside the modern world. Tons of creativity in that game, which impressed me with each new level.
Hey im 1 year late, if youre talkinf about DmC, No it suked lmao The world design is pretty much their normal world but with that thanos snap filter.. and it looks like new york, ew If DMC: yeah they pretty much didn't played 3 and 4 enough
And people called me crazy for saying that DMC5 is just DMC Reboot 2.0 , Everything I loved in DMC1 , DMC3 and DMC4 is completely butchered in DMC5 Reboot 2.0 , The only thing they got right was the gameplay which is great but my god , the characters design , Clothes , Personality looked and felt like a bunch of street bums , The soundtrack is ass and easily the worst in the franchise , The bosses are forgettable outside king Cerberus , the story is garbage , The map design and platforming is hands the worst and most generic I’ve seen in a DMC game , Lady And Trish are reduced to side characters and damsels in distress and you can’t play as them , The final boss is a huge disappointment , I was expecting a big 3 team fight between Dante , Vergil , and Nero against a returning Mundus but nope , Virgil Vs Dante round 4 baby ! , such a huge disappointment , 😒🤦♂️
@@umbasamufasa9676 Lol , Only if you’re a tentacle hentai fan , 😏 ,,, But Seriously fella , The map design and levels are absolutely trash , Heck DMC Reboot has better levels design and platforming sequences , This is baffling to me fella , 😒
@@umbasamufasa9676 Sadly I completely disagree , The past games had way much better locations and also better platforming sequences , And Yeah V is trash to me , It’s totally fine to like this game , but for me I was expecting a home run of a DMC game , A satisfying conclusion to Dante and Vergil , A great finale that ties in the real villain of the franchise aka mundus , He’s the reason why Vergil is more corrupted than when was in DMC 3 , And Also the reason why Dante’s family is dead , So logically it should have been Mundus for a final showdown while Dante is the one to finish him off , After all Mundus did say in DMC 1 finale , “ Dante , I will return and I will rule this world , Dante reply’s : Goodbye , And if you do comeback , Give my regards to my son will ya !? , Such a waste of a conclusion 😔
I mean, Nero already had the edgy attitude and problem with authority in DMC 4. He always had a smart mouth, didn't go to church and had a bad reputation with his fellow Knights in The Order of the Sword, because he had a rebellious streak and a power that they didn't understand. It's just that Nero's rebellious character traits weren't overplayed to the point of being embarrassing to watch. Also I feel like the attempts to connect Nico and Kat are a stretch. Sure they have similar looking clothes, but the way the two act couldn't be more different. They also both had issues with one or more of their parental figures, but that applies to literally every major character in this series. it was in no way unique to Kat's character before this. Considering Nico's father is Agnus from DMC 4, her lineage feels more like an attempt to build off DMC 4 and set up the whole running theme of family that DMC 1, 3, 4 and 5 had going on. It really didn't feel like an intentional nod to DmC to me at all. DMC 4 was Capcom's first attempt at giving the series a fresh start with a new main character, but due to issues in development, DMC 4, while still fun, ended up feeling unfinished, with character arcs being put on pause instead of reaching a natural conclusion. Because of this, Nero never really came into his own as the new main character for the franchise the way Capcom had intended. DMC 5 really just goes back and finishes the job that DMC 4 started, setting Nero up to be the new protagonist going forward. But this time, his position as the new future for the franchise feels way more well deserved. So I don't really see this as a reboot of DmC, but rather the completion of what was left unfinished from DMC 4. They definitely took inspiration from ideas they had in DmC of course, but the game felt far more like a classic DMC in terms of how the story plays out and how the returning characters are written. The seeds for this game were planted way back in DMC 4. DmC was just used as additional fertilizer on top of what was already there. I definitely see what you mean about the actual character design for Nero being similar to DmC Dante though.
Let's not forget about the fact that we might not have gotten the Faust hat if it wasn't for Ninja Theory saying Dante is a gay cowboy.
Dante is seen looking at pictures of half naked women in 4 and 5.
@@flashxd6040 well a bisexual cowboy
@@arturoenriquerodriguezvill7819 I don't think he's bisexual either.
@@flashxd6040 I do that would rule
@@allancastellon9248 It wouldn't change anything really
I really like how the ending of DMC5 eases you into saying goodbye to Dante and Vergil. It doesn't feel like a farewell to them, but more of a "see you when I see you" kinda thing. Even Vergil himself says "we're still around" and promises Nero a round 2 at some point, so they're not really gone for good, but damn they got a great send-off.
agree 100%. everyone is so hype about re4r while dmcv is madd underrated
okay so while i agree that they did take some elements from the reboot, a lot of what you said goes beyond simple liberties and goes into being outright factually incorrect about many elements. i will brake this down for you without going silly alright?
while initially the appearance and new attidude of the reboot dante did piss people off, people were more annoyed that a reboot was happening overall since 4 wasn't received badly or sold poorly, it did really well and even left questions unanswered about nero and how he's a relative of the sparda bloodline
you say they kept with the direction of dante in the reboot but they didn't? they changed his design so he wasn't so emaciated, changed the hair so it wouldn't be so flamboyant and toned it down, the face no longer resembled the dev and now resembles the voice actor, they changed the coat a few times afterwards and changed dante's attitude from a tortured angry man who has moments of loosing his mind to basically an angstier version of nero, so they didn't maintain there original direction.
nero back in 4 was a punk, he didn't like authority much, the reboot didn't influence that on him really, the only influence of the reboot is changing nero's outfit making it more punk inspired with the shorter blue denim/leather jacket, short and spikey hair with combat boots and cargo pants.
no, vergil was not manipulating people for his own ends in the reboot, based on the dialog at the end he genuinely thought they were all up him ruling the world as if he thought they already knew what they were signing up for. this is why this moment sucks because he spent years leading the order and only just now he realised 'wait, you guys didn't want me to rule the world? but i totally thought you guy's would feel that it was kino'. vergil didn't turn on anyone in the reboot, he GENINELY thought they'd be fine with his plan and was surprised when they didnt agreed with it. dante and kat were the ones who turned on vergil. V on the other hand did manipulat everyone and only turned on dante because dante is his target. V was manipulating everyone so he could reunite with Urizen so he could live since he was dying, so no similarities there since vergil in reboot wasn't manipulating them to begin with. V revealing secrets to nero about his past? no, the only things he told nero was of the relationship between dante and vergil and that urizen is vergil, that's not secrets to nero's past. him telling nero that this is the demon that took his arm isn't a secret of his past, nero already knew it was this demon that did it.
nico's father didn't abuse her? there's nothing that stated that her father abused her, all he did was abandoned her and that's it. i have the art book and nothing about kat in that piece of art suggested she has an affinity for mechanics, sure she likes motorcycles but that's it? either that or she was a musician. the grease monkey idea is all nico. nico's design was based on a combo of grease monkey mechanic and sassy bad girls, nothing in the info out there suggests kat was the inspiration, kat's design is based on her being a wiccan, a punk and her shutting people out due to her trauma. kat never granted dante new combat abelites, the most she did was open gates and allowed dante to interact with key objects and....that's it. nico on the other hand made the player weapons which directly helps with combat throughout the entire game.
again....the main problem wasn't 'it's not my dante or vergil' it's 'wait fuck off i don't want a reboot, it's not needed' plus the end of the sons of sparda arc doesn't meant no more dante and vergil, it means they no longer fight each other to the death over ideology, now their bonds are healed and now at most, they fight, with no intention of killing the other just as some friendly rivalry.
all in all, yeah there are some things lifted like how music ramps up with the style rank, the slow mo combat finishers and the more grounded character designs and they made nero's design finally match his character by being inspired by reboot dante...but that's really it, your video is disliked for a reason and that's because you got so much wrong in it
Interesting
OMG THANK YOU SO SO MUCH you said what what was in my mind but 10000 times better now i can happily delete my hate filled essay
God damn dude, thats a very well made explaination. Well done
still like DMC 2013 more
You must be *REALLLLLLYyyy* FUN at parties,
aren't cha'?
This is DMC... *Not a thesis paper* on why this guy, or anything else sucks:
*colossal donkey balls...*
Lol xD
A Ninja Theory programmer spoke about plans they had for the sequel, and I found it shocking for several reasons:
- Dante choosing the angelic way more | as Nero has a more "angelic" demon form;
- Dante being saved by his uncle | as Nero being saved by Dante;
- Nature's life being drained by something | like the Tree in DMC5
- an "evolved" version of Vergil showing up while nature is being drained; he is considered a "mistery man" at the start and they discover his identity later | as DMC5
It looks, in general terms, A LOT similiar to what we got in DMC5, and I'm wondering if they actually used all of this for 5 or it is just a coincidence...
To me, it is clear that Nero has a lot of connection to reboot's Dante. Both have an "angelic" form, Nero is the successor of dante's (reboot) design and Dante (reboot) has a lot of Nero's combo.
Now I think even more DMC5 being a sequel to both series, original and (spiritually) reboot.
Reddit comments were just: "This was so far the original series. Luckily we didn't get it 😢😭". Are they blinded or what?
I know the OG DMC creator was a fan of the reboot so maybe he used those ideas in 5 for sure!
Makes perfect sense but you know these DMC fanboys are nuts.
Guys writing posts 3-4 times larger than OPs to not give DmC any credit for how DMC5 turned out, even with the creator flat out stating he loved DmC
@@RUclipsCensors I hate fanboys for this reason. They treat their favourite games as something so important that no one can make contructive critics or analysis about it. It's ironic, because this makes fanboys hardly the most expert people about their favourite games, movies etc Lol. Overall, I loved DmC's plot. It was simple, but it had clear development for their characters and you can actually see how they change through the game. Instead, DMC5's felt out of its nature. What it seriously lacked was that sense of continuity with the previous Vergil and that's because they fused DMC3's vergil with DmC's, and as a result we got a terrible and unnatural character who resemble Vegeta a lot more than the og Vergil. And that's because they didn't know how to insert him in this plot already created by Ninja Theory. And fanboys ignore it lol
@@beluuzzz I still don't comprehend how someone can hate DmC today. I think that it is still the most stylish game speaking about animations and camera. And story, despite being simpler, was coherent and all characters had their development, while DMC5 was an overhall fail for character and storywise. Vergil was turned into a copy of Vegeta for stupid reasons and fans still don't complain about his stupidity respect to vergil of dmc3. What the f***
@@brando_duurieI hate DMC fanboys so much, they really think DMC5 is a full original game, but there's a lot of things in gameplay and in history that came from DmC. Hypocrites.
The fight with Vergil is very similar for both games. This take is cool.
Thanks man, the both copy dmc3 as well but they gave vergil doppleganger in 5 just like reboot as well. Cheers!
It's like they literally can't fuck up vergil
I mean it is a copy paste from the Vergil fight in DMC 3 so I don't see how they could fuck it up
@@idoitforthememes6011 Nah, the plot about climbing a tower to stop the big bad Vergil, sure. The whole thing has really strong DMC3 vibes, while V acts as the human partner here instead of Arkham , which makes it imho narrativity weaker.
But the fight itself? It's really much closer to DmC with some sprinkles of DMC3 and DMC4. Looks and feels like a harder version of DmC.
2013 gets a needless amount of flak, no other game has such a great and unique art style and abstract combat environments that hits on those grungy elements, and the setting is honestly great. I don't think there will be no more games with Dante and Vergil though.
I really want a DmC reboot sequel because the combat in that version is my favorite
The definitive combat, yes. I love how intuitive the shoulders for angel and demon mode are and swapping weapons on the fly has never felt better!
@@umbasamufasa9676all we need is to bring back forward and back specials on the melee and style button and maybe three more of each weapon type and we'd have a grand ol time.
We should honestly get a proper DmC2 and have it be it’s own thing next to the mainline games. That way everyone is happy and we can combo more in style.
I really want the DmC Sequel, i enjoyed the first one, while the characters might not be as great as the OG, the gameplay is fun and the world is interesting and felt different, and the ending left me wanting more, and see how this version of Dante evolve.
I agree wholeheartedly, it would serve as the perfect prequel
Compromise: crossover DLC in a future mainline sequel?
I always said it, and I will say it again DmC should have used Nero instead of Dante. And not reuse Mundus, but instead something more sinister.
Vergil wasn’t motivated in DmC. So dmc 5 takes the spot 😂
Well not till the Virgil's Downfall DLC at least.
@@wiseguy240Winston he was motivated to kill donte
Atleast DmC Vergil got his own story, levels and unique enemies. Mainline Vergil has been stuck with getting second hand campaigns since day one.
@@soulcyclone360And people say DmC didn’t do anything right.
@@theatheistbear3117 weebs
Yes, let's completely forget DMC4 and say DMC5 rehashes ideas from DmC.
This is the biggest problem I noticed with his points. I think he doesn't see the fact that most of what he talked about is similar to DMC4 and back, and even some things that might be similar to DmC, DmC just "copied" them from DMC4, therefore it'd still be a similarity between DMC4.
@@zffrailgun1630 While his video isn't supposed to be taken seriously, Itsuno clearly took some inspiration from DmC. I'd say the biggest problem with classic DMC titles was no definitive art direction. Each game differed so much in its approach to visual style because they coudsn't figure out what would scream "style". I like DMC 4 a lot but it isn't all that stylish to me, looks more like a Final Fantasy game. The good thing about DmC is they took a more urban approach to its art design and boldly followed that direction till the end. It had its issues but a large portion of it inspired DMC5 and helped establish, what I like to concider, a definitive visual style for this series. Loud, bold and urban (epidemy of Western style). You can't also deny that they implemented some smaller elements from DmC either as a nod to that game's fanbase or simply because these elements genuinly enhanced the game's aesthetic.
@@sharavy6851wdym, dmcs 1-3 stuck to the whole Gothic aesthetics throughout, dmc 4 still was Gothic but a more "modernized" tone, though having almost completely different biomes definitely gave a more "varied" feel to it, but all installments stuck to a specific art direction, 4 just took a bit more liberty to changing things up a bit, and dmc5 was different since we've stuck most of the time in a tree, but the times were outside, it still has a Gothic feel, tho you can barely tell, and tho the world can feel bland, it easily gets overshone by the characters with how they portray them, especially Dante, dmc3 was bleak as fuck but it still feels like a party every time dantes in a cutscene
@@theysaidimasian9766 I'd say the art direction in 4 is more clashing rather than varied. All we have is a bunch of monotonous locations not resembling one another and holding no integrity beyond being connected. You could say they wanted to take the approach of having each area have its own theme unlike previously but the line up they presented us with was very unimpressive. Also, this is the game that change approaches to architecture. Unlike the other 3's Gothic direction, they decided to mainly go with Roman style instead. The whole city of Fortuna has a distinct Roman flair from its building and roads to the chapel. That was what I had in mind when I said DMC team had no clear vision and that they kept changing directions. The only time you see Gothic architecture in the game is when you encounter the snowy castle in mission 3/4 (and when you come back as Dante), which, I'll admit I really enjoy the visuals of.
i doubt he played that gem it kinda shows
The reaction to *_DmC_* back in 2013
was the most embarrassed I've ever been to call myself a gamer.
I couldn't believe what a pathetic bunch of little squibs I was surrounded by.
*_DmC_* was a fantastic game, the depth of which wasn't fully appreciated until just a few years ago.
We often fear change. Its natural. Its my favorite combat system maybe. Tied with 3? Its just so good...(definitive edition)
@@umbasamufasa9676 This is mostly from a post I wrote a few weeks back:
I wasn't that into *_DMC1_* (or *_DMC2_* obviously),
but I liked every game after that. They all had their negatives though,
with the negatives of *_DmC_* being some the most stupid and wasteful I've ever seen in my life.
• *_DMC1_* was pretty good, but I played it after DMC3, so it just seemed to me dated in many ways.
I liked the art direction, but not the level designs. The combat wasn't deep enough for me.
It was very unforgiving in the worst way, the way that just wastes your time. It was over 20 years ago though.
• *_DMC2_* just didn't have good combat, that was the killer, but far from the only problem.
We all know why that game failed, at least, we know well enough.
• *_DMC3_* will always be the most fondly-remembered entry for two reasons:
a) It came after the game that came before. It was a massively welcome surprise in attitude and combat.
b) It had a fully-fleshed out and meaningful story, which makes it the ONLY game in the series ever to be truly well-rounded.
( *_DmC_* did better than most, but objectively still not very good in regards to story. )
• *_DMC4_* took the combat of *_DMC3_* to another level, with a seemingly infinite skill ceiling and player expression.
It was the first game to really show the world how insane a combat system can really be.
It also had a pretty good story, but every player noticed being asked to play through everything backwards again with Dante.
They ran out of money, and you could feel it. Levels were frequently copy/paste, or lazy, or terrible, or incredibly frustrating.
It had mazes, it had magic portals which just reshuffled the rooms, it had giant board games with spinning dice,
it had enemies which appeared under you and sent you back, it had giant statue bosses that you got lost navigating.
I have a love/hate relationship with that game. It drives me crazy.
• *_DmC_* was great. So fresh and new, so modern, OK story, different more accessible combat.
New and interesting characters, fantastically colourful and vibrant world compared to DMC4's completely static one.
But then... red... and blue... enemies... I just... I thought it was like a temporary disability for one part of one level.
But no... another level later and I was so angry I almost uninstalled right then and there.
I just couldn't believe how STUPID they could be to implement something like this.
One of the stupidest things I've ever seen in a AAA game. In a game people ONLY PLAY to make COMBOS,
you cut the player off from ALMOST ALL OF HIS WEAPONS? I literally could hardly believe it.
Then when CAPCOM fixed all those problems in the _Definitive Edition_ , then refused to bring it to PC,
ignoring all their PC fans and making nonsensical excuses as to why, I just gave up and will probably never play it again.
• *_DMC5_* was an interesting one, because firstly is has BY FAR the best combat system in any game ever.
The weapons, the sheer number, how they work together, all the different modes and arms, V's familiars, the DSD mode,
with *_DMC4_* I thought I'd seen it all, but I would even go as far as to say *_DMC5_* combat is as big a leap again.
Once again I'm left wondering how on earth anyone could ever do much better. I can't see how it could be better.
But man... the story of *_DMC5_* ... what a complete bread sandwich. If you remove V's familiars,
there is almost NOTHING of flavour there at all. I think that's why they messed with the chronology so much, to hide it.
Here's DMC5's story: A weird new guy shows up. There's a big new demon. They all try go beat it. They fail.
They mostly split up. Dante gets a new form, making everyone else useless. Dante beats the new demon.
SURPRISE. V + Ergil = Vergil. Wow. But his tower is a tree. You beat Vergil, again and again and again.
Vergil is Nero's father??? Yes, we know. We've known that for 13 years. Dante and Vergil both leave. The end.
And what're you left with? Lady and Trish Never do anything. Nico just drives and smokes.
No V. No Dante. No Vergil. No Urizen. No Kyrie. No Mundus. Nothing.
In terms of relevance to the series, you could have just said, _“Dante and Vergil meet up and go to the underworld.”_
That single sentence would have got you as far as the entire game. And what's more that's probably the end, forever.
It literally could hardly have been worse / more disappointing. A sad fart and shuffle out for our beloved characters.
And to top it all off, CAPCOM refused to bring THIS _Definitive Edition_ to PC too,
saying, _“the PC couldn't handle it”_ . I mean, _excuse_ me? Just how _stupid_ does he think we are?
I feel like the good wholesome feeling from DMC3 will never return now. I feel like it's over.
That final spit in the mouth right at the end there. A sour, sour taste after so long.
DmC at launch was horrible for Donte... His combat was outdated compared to DMC1.
In definitive edition... They removed that outdated combat system... But it's not a great game in comparison to the original.
Reboot Vergil is the only good thing in the reboot, but it's not even about his character. Just his combat system. The wrest is worthless.
The story... Forgettable and wasted.
The script... Jeez, the God of War trilogy does better.
The combat... It's mid but nothing amazing. Granted, the floating nature of air travel into air attacks is as if an indie dev worked on it. It lacks polish.
Characters?... A waste of time.
When DMC2 had better content despite its flaws, compared to the Reboot. You know there's something wrong... Right, Capcom, since that company wanted "changes" despite Ninja Theory's original plan. A bit out of touch but such is the higher ups.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 I'm just going to remind you that the critics and the users both rated *_DmC_* the highest in the series until *_DMC5_* just barely squeezed it out on Steam.
The professional critics. And the players.
That's basically everyone. They all loved it.
@@naryanr
In Its own right... You're correct.
But in competition at the time... There were better games and DmC wasn't that great before Definitive Edition.
Once Definitive Edition was released. Most of the problems outside of the story was fixed. A solid game but the story/characters mocked the face of the original Devil May Cry franchise.
If it wasn't DMC or if the reboot's story was written better, then it could be the best Devil May Cry of the modern time, second to DMC5. Unfortunately, whoever designed the story and script held the game back. Even for the Definitive Edition.
This is actually a good analogy. I’ve also thought both games had big connections. Some people just joins the hate train, in the process never giving the game a try and have an objective and original opinion. Same with dmc 2.
I gave both a try, dmc 2 still sucks, combat is slower you can kill with just gun needing no combos. The reboot is good if it wasn't a dmc game
Oh no not DMC2. This one deserve all the hate. DmC is controversial due to the game try to reboot the story, BUT the gameplay was good, still feel like an actual DMC game. DMC2 on the other hand just trash to begin with. Still remember the very first time I play and I was like wtf is this slow ass game? This is not DMC game at all. The only way I can see DMC2 get redemption if Capcom decided to remake the game with actual DMC style
@@davidjones1666 in reboot combat is boring, too easy..... i hate demon and angelic weapons
@@JeyvaSaplus the combos are generally just there to look cool, but are not actually effective at all. Rebellion takes care of the enemies better and faster then the scythe or hammer. Not to mention they feel like they are just slower rebellion, and faster rebellion. When rebellion is literally better than both, which is why I think they color coded enemies to begin with. The weapons didn’t have enough utility to be likely to be used as was. So they ham fisted a reason to use them more that sucked.
I definitely noticed that DMC5 is a spiritual successer to DmC lots of people did but I think this video definitely helps paint the picture for people who missed it
Thanks for watching man, hope you enjoyed it!
It seemed more like a spiritual sequel to DMC3 to me.
It seemed like it leaned much more heavily on the themes of family than DMC 1 where the familial theme was more in the background, 2 where it was nonexistent, 4 where it was only really touched on or DMC where the protagonist never even had a family until Vergil appeared, but very much in line with the spirit of 3 where the entire story was focused around Dante's familial connections right from the beginning.
Gameplay wise, it's pretty much unmistakably much more like a sequel to 4 when it comes to Dante and Nero mechanics, V's monster controlling style probably does have some inspiration in another action game, but I'm not familiar with what it would be, his Devil Trigger does kind of resemble DMC DMC though with the white hair and powerful external effect rather than the other entries' method of powering up the player while it's active, and enemies take inspiration from all five other entries.
People still deny it though.They are copeing
@@housemouseshorts They may be coping but at least they're not malding like you.
im currently working my way through the whole series (including DmC reboot) and so far im loving the reboot
Right? I think the shoulder button combat and traversal integration is pretty damn good! Especially Definitive Edition
I played the reboot a few months back for the first time doing a series playthrough like you. Has some flaws, but that game was overhated and I loved it’s artstyle so much. The story was actually interesting and I feel like some of it’s lore like the idea of Nephilim coudl still work or angels being a pivotol role to canon DMC.
@@theswig2339 If you're up for a character action game with Nephilim playing a central role, the Darksiders series has you covered. Focus on Nephilim mainly becomes a thing from Darksiders 2 onwards and they're not full-on character action games (as in, there's other gameplay aspects such as Zelda-like dungeons and puzzles), but the combat is a solid part of it.
Late 2022 had the release of a game by name of Soulstice that *is* more in line with a lot of character action games. The devs have stated a few times they'd like to become like a European PlatinumGames and have taken examples and inspiration from a number of different games in the genre (as well as some manga), while still on the road to carving out an own identity.
DMC: DmC has been an inspiration on Soulstice's combat as well. There is a color coding system too, but all of the seven weapons total are viable against any enemy. You just need to cast a forcefield of either red or blue color that moves alongide the player character, and there's controller remapping options to make it easier.
Outside of that, there's dial combos as i believe they're called:
All weapons have a combo string of generally about five hits. If you go Sword - Sword - Warhammer - Bladed Whip - Punch Daggers, you'll get the warhammer's third hit of its own combo string, the whip's fourth hit of its combo string, etc.
Plus, there's a thing where you can end a pause combo string with a special finisher, depending on what weapon you finish the string with and if your Special Meter is filled up.
There's a lot more. Drags on a bit and there's some annoying enemy types, but generally Soulstice is a very solid game in the genre.
"Capcom brought back all the fan favorites for DMC5"
* looks for Lucia *
She's in the DMC5 comics at least, I guess.
DmC is absolutely my favorite one, and I played them all in order.
DmC > DMC > DMC4 > DMC2 (for Lucia) > DMC3 > DMC5
dmc2 higher than 3 and 5? goddamn what did you dislike bout those games 😳
@@Thonato420
Let me preface by saying I think they're both good games.
DMC 3:
I thought the tower was really "samey." There wasn't too much of a change of scenery. Combined with all of the backtracking, it made it feel like a chore. I also thought that it had too much of a "Zelda boss" feeling for my taste (hit him in the x, then punish). While some of the bosses were fun, others were just a slog (centipede, Jester, Balrog). I also think it was tuned a tad difficult compared to the rest of the series. It also got rid of the good Air Raid. I thought the enemy selection was slightly flat. How many "guys with scythes" do you need?
DMC 5:
The story was just a massive letdown and didn't exactly make sense with the rest of the series (pierced by sword = superpowers). It was overstuffed for what it was. Playing as Vergil helps, because you can skip it. It relied too heavily on fan service, but somehow didn't include Lucia or Phantom. The way playing characters worked out left you with too little time to play each character, leaving me unsatisfied. Just when I'm in my groove, it's time to switch. Bosses were unmemorable or fan servicey. The tree was aesthetically ugly (the city was great, though). Vergil's return was such an ass pull after he died. Also, they took away Nero's good arm, which was like 50% of the fun of playing as him. Also, the enemies were just bland bugs or rehashed DMC1 enemies (mostly). Also, it was baby-easy, even on hard.
On DMC2:
I put DMC2 over it, because Lucia was extremely fun, it had a ton of cool bosses, had Air Raid (good edition), its own Sin DT, a badass final boss, didn't shove story in the way of gameplay, had great aesthetics in enemy design, and had 2 lengthy campaigns.
I hope that makes sense.
The fact is that I played DMC: Devil May Cry first and I really loved it tho 😭❤
dmc has the best action and gameplay but why people hate it?? cuz the gameplay and stry are completely different
@@obsidian1798simply it got rid of the characters and game fans liked.
You’re almost there. DMCV is actually a reworked DmC 2. It starts off nearly identical to where DmC left off(Vergil half dead summoning demons.) and completes both Vergil’s redemptive arcs. I mean, all the story is is a fight tower. All they did was massage the story a bit to fit the OG DMC characters instead. Hell it even has the same SPARDA HOUSE from DmC.
Ahhh i never played dmc2 because...reasons but thats cool know!
@@umbasamufasa9676 Nah he means its like a reworked sequel to DmC, not a DMC2 remake. It picks up from Vergils Downfall and continues from there, but implements it in the main series Story. I guess it's why they never adress where Vergil was all these years between DMC1 and 5. You have to kinda pick it up from the reboot. and make what you want from that.
Ah yes...the Sparda house from DmC...you mean the same Sparda house that was shown in the dmc3 manga over a decade ago?
DMC4 came before DmC, so some points get kinda invalidated right from the start lol.
Other than that, enjoyable video man.
I may have taken SOME liberties with it...thanks for watching!
It's just the end of the sons of sparda saga. I do agree with you except for Capcom having Nero for a next installment, people care about Dante a lot more. I wouldn't have a problem with spinoffs though.
Dante is Devil May Cry
100% true.
Is kinda funny that This bullshit about the end of the sons of the sparda saga was never even said by anyone in the DMC5 development team or the director hideaki itsuno, i even search that statement and never saw this bullshit said by anyone that worked in DMC5 development. This bullshit is made up by jornalists and people that like the shit reboot and talk shit about the original series, Saying that the reboot is superior, is clear that is not, the reboot fucked the whole narrative and lore about the legendary dark night sparda being a legendary warrior and his legendary twin sons with opposite personality and different motivations in life.
@@gabszz The devs didn't say it was the end of the sons of sparda saga, but it did get marketed that way by Capcom. The journalists only spread word that the publishers and devs allow it to be spread that way via permission. The leaks did say it sooner, now the reviews say it too, even if you play it a couple of times you'd know it had given closure to all the characters and the series. Not a lot of people are experts in understanding the series, but hopefully few people do.
Look, every video game has its pros and cons - DMC5 has superior combat and abilities compared to the reboot, the reboot has superior level design and platforming compared to DMC5. Both of their plots age like cheese, let's be honest but the reboot has more simple storytelling if you don't see it as a DMC game, DMC5 on the other hand is a sequel that really needs the previous installments to be fully understood, chronologically (the recap alone is useless and anyone who thinks it's helpful is a casual).
As for Sparda, I know that DmC fans (fans of the reboot) wanted to be part of the large crowd and make up nonsense about him in hell with Dante and Vergil, they're still in denial that the original has nothing to do with the reboot - it just got retconned thanks to DMC4 and DMC2 switching places but it didn't ruin the story entirely. Now the reboot may have some influence under DMC5 gameplay wise and easter egg wise, but, it didn't ruin 5's plot. I said "I wouldn't have a problem with spinoffs though." That's still up to Capcom if they want to since DMC5 was Itsuno's final DMC game and judging from the gaming industry always changing and moving towards the Soulslikes, it might not happen. - they do seem more eager on franchises like Resident Evil and Monster Hunter along with their new IP, Pragmata.
I did get irritated by people mixing OG Sparda with reboot Sparda, they either don't know what they're saying or they're just causing an uproar in the fanbase.
@@TonyRedgrave-of9od i don't think it gave closure to the characters, specially because Dante pretty much had his development in DMC3 gaining his sense of responsability because of lady and her father fight. going to DMC1 sealing mundus again and making his revenge about his mother death. pretty much dante went full circle on DMC3 to DMC1 in development, in DMC4 he is more like a teacher and master to the young Nero. In DMC5 he still the master and more experience one in comparison to Nero. But he find it out vergil was still alive after DMC1 story. Dante and vergil fought, and because of nero their deadly rivalry ended. And they fight like friends and like a sport thing, dante and vergil become real family in the end of DMC5 that why Dante went with vergil this time, unlike the DMC3 ending were vergil went alone to the underworld. But there is still so much more to discover. Who is Nero mother? What really happend to sparda? In the first game it said by the narrator that sparda vanished and died, by the anime two demons who fought on sparda side said that sparda went to the demon world and nobody saw him again. Another thing is, the lore of the whole franshise was kinda changed in DMC5 nico files. It was new information there about sparda lore, he having one sword that represent his full power, that he divided into 3 parts becoming new 3 swords, rebellion, yamato, and the devil sword sparda. And in the DMC5 dante fused the rebellion and the sparda sword once more, but there is still one more Yamato. And in DMC1 mundus was not fully recovery yet against Dante that was only using the sparda sword. In DMC1 mundus still had a big whole in his chest probaly because of sparda, and There is a comic book about DMC1 i don't remember the title but shows mundus his chest fully regenerated and even nelo angelo talking in DMC1. They changing the lore and making sparda full power being the main swords as one make pretty much mundus in DMC1 not in his prime, since he was still hurt by the fight with sparda and was sealed for thousand of years being recently free. Capcom could make a DMC6 using all this, showing Nero mother, and reveling what happened to sparda, making mundus come back since he was still injured in DMC1 and sealed once again. And fusing the 3 main swords to finally taking down mundus on his full prime.
@@gabszz Sparda didn't vanish, he passed away and his family made a proper burial for him months before Mundus sent demons to attack the twins and Eva. Why is it even necessary to know who Nero's mother is? In DMC4: Deadly Fortune, it was revealed that she was a human prostitute and her name was Ashleigh and left Nero to another family. Vergil had an important role to Nero than Ashleigh did. That DMC1 comic book got cancelled because the people that worked on it were being paid less, and that was the publisher's fault.
I've heard couple of times about Dante's development ended with DMC1-DMC3 but even his mentor role still counts as a development, not to mention he's the face of the franchise, there's no way Nero could lead the series without Dante, he's OP yes but people like him because he's cool. He was handled poorly in both DMC2 and DMC4. Dante did have development in DMC5 when he absorbed his father's sword with the rebellion. I don't have any concerns with the yamato, it doesn't need to change - and that's fine.
Dante went to the underworld with Vergil because he didn't want to go through the same depression he had experienced in DMC3, and this can help Dante come to terms with himself and teach Vergil how to embrace his humanity, just like his father, Sparda and his nephew, Nero. That's a perfect way to give closure to these characters because they deserve a happy ending.
I think dragging Mundus (who is said to be dead along with Argosax in DMC5: Visions of V, the manga is still ongoing and like Deadly Fortune, it's retelling the game's plot in a deeper way) is useless because, he did say he would return but the spinoff manga said he got killed by Dante, this man isn't legendary for show, he had to finish his leftovers.
I know, the world in the series has potential for more but it's fine to end it this way, DMC5 is a retcon and fanservice to end the DmC fiasco that had angered many fans. We all have different opinions because it's a single player game and people understand the series differently, it's understandable. I'm one of those who is happy with what we got and DMC5's story may not be better than DMC3's, it did focus on Dante, Vergil (or V) and Nero for a reason. I'm happy that Itsuno made the DMC game he always wanted to make and this being the canonical end to the series gave him the chance that he can do a better job in making a good game.
Long story short: if you want to apply a set of modernizing ideas to an established franchise, use them to lovingly continue the story, not to recklessly discard it. That alone can be the difference between ROCK HARD SUCCESS and abject failure.
i hope we'll see DmC 2 in the future some day i was in love that game back in the time and still.
"...what you fear would come like an explosion its like a whisper and what you thought was the end is the beginning... " you got me there... amazing video! wholesome content im a DmC hardcore fan ♥ so sad we will never had any new content from the "not Dante" Dante...
I did steal it from a twilight zone episode...but don't tell anyone! Lol
Same! I feel hardstuck fans put too much against it and thinks it’s trying to replace the OGVDante ( Change isn’t bad for a series that’s this long and has the chance to die or beat it with a stick, Dante in DMC legit wasn’t even try hard edgy he just was and it fit, and it’s another universe, a spin-off. No need to hate in it so bad )
Donte just kind of struck me as an asshole.
Holy shit bro, the quality is clean and neat. Points were clearly demonstrated with visual aids. You have my respect sir
Cheers! Thanks so much for watching and your feedback! I hope to keep the quality high for all my videos!
Agree with your insight in the similarities of dmc’s devil may cry’s dante and nero, and nero being a reincarnation of dmc dante
Finally a comment that doesnt want to see me dead lol
The title is wrong, here's why.
dmc5 is literally, and I mean literally, dmc4 repackaged. with the story of dmc3 added in, vergil as the main villain, cerberus boss battle, etc.
This is dmc4 and dmc3 mixed. Takes absolutely no influence from ninja dmc.
The combos are heavily borrowed from dmc4, with weapons that return from dmc 3. Even the sound track is very much DMC.
Ninja theory dmc is literally its own thing.
And if anything, that game tried to recreate dmc 4, with graphics and level design, but to top it off, ninja theory added a unique twist to its games atmosphere. However, the combat itself was more akin to ninjas previous titles.
Ninja did not like dmc3, so they preferred to make a combo system that fell flat on release, they had to patch it.
found it hilarious how everyone thought nero in the dmc5 trailer reveal was dante from the reboot then when they showed his sword getting revved up everyone was happy as hell hahah love dmc5
before a new DMC entry to the story's continuation, they better focus on *Sparda* that's somethign that has to be done
Sparda almost had a game on the vita but Capcom called it off 7 months in a few years ago
I'm just saying, Sparda is the foundation of DMC lore we *need* a game to play as him offically and not using a sparda skin mod or dlc skin, we need the real thing and his story to be played because Sparda is the legend that we hear about but never get to see in action on his job, I'd love to play it
I really hope we get a sparda game! That would be incredible to get the origins of the rebellion and yamato
It seems unlikely to me that they'd make another DMC game anytime soon. 5 worked well, but the director has been giving the impression that he's interested in making a Dragon's Dogma sequel before another DMC game. Capcom could hand off the IP to another developer, but they've also given the impression that they wanted to be a lot more hesitant with outsourcing in more recent years, so that seems somewhat unlikely too.
The fact that Sparda's fate was never confirmed is still boggling me, where is he? what is he doing? Is he alive or dead? I need answers
@@Aquilenne it’s already confirmed that a new dmc is in the works
I hate how Dante has just become more and more of a joke.
DMC 2 was a shoddy game, but that Dante was visually a MUCH cooler and Iconic character than the ones that followed.
Mysterious, quiet, badass design and demeanor.
Fit for a DEMON who isn't really human.
DMC5 has more loveable characters than DmC. DmC tone is bit more serious while DMC5 hept its comedic style like its previous games. DmC was not a bad game but it was also not what the fan were requesting for it. However, I am glad DmC was released ın 2013 and not DMC5 since the technology improved a lot in PS4 era and DMC5 was a fucking blast.
Another major difference between Nero and reboot Dante Nero is not as cynical. Nero just likes to act like a punk but he really does have a good heart when Virgil First shows up looking like a homeless zombie Nero's first thought is that maybe this guy needs help and something to eat and he offers him some food I think a reboot Dante would have just told him to f*** off which would be understandable LOL reboot Dante has one night stands with strippers / prostitutes Nero is completely devoted to one woman. People pick up on little things like this which makes Nero far more likable
A good point indeed but he was pretty much a punk in DMC4 aside from gf
Everything Ends Dante
Even us.
-Vergil
I disagree, but respect your opinion
thanks for the civil disagreement, the video is probably 50/50 meme vs serious. hope you enjoyed the video!
@@umbasamufasa9676 I did
Controversial but true, and as someone who actually likes DmC i can see the similarities a lot
Considering most people don't really open descriptions, it was really hard from the video alone to get that this wasn't 100% serious.
@housemouseshorts I said nothing like that.
DmC stil sux tho lawl
These ARE superficial similarities, quite a few of which aren't even really there. Nero standing up to Vergil has nothing to do with having a "problem with authority", and that by itself wouldn't be a problem anyway. Especially since Nero is a separate character, so it doesn't mean Dante is being turned unrecognizable. Nor does he have Donte's most obnoxious traits.
Nice observation about Kat, but... who ever complained about Kat, her outfit or her driving a car? If anything, people complained that she's bland and generic.
It's not a dealbreaker to end the existing canon if there's an emotionally satisfying conclusion. After DMC4, there were lots of loose ends, and reboots usually axe a canon for good. DMC5 tied them all up and respected its roots, rather than ridiculing them and insulting the fans along the way.
Story and characters aside, the GAMEPLAY is a major aspect above all else. Fans wanted fighting mechanics with so much depth, you can easily spend hundreds of hours mastering them, to make mind-boggling combo-videos. This was never Ninja Theory's forte, but it's the major selling point of Devil May Cry. If DMC:DMC had DMC5's combat, much would have been forgiven.
Honestly, DmC is truly underrated. I played it not long ago, and it was fantastic. I hope one day, they'll make sequel to DmC
pretty pain to play, and plot/characters kinda suck
Cap
@@brandonmartin8628 i mean only can use 2 weapons per enemy? like what is the point of using ebony and ivory except for the first boss
I hate DMC fanboys so much, they really think DMC5 is a full original game, but there's a lot of things in gameplay and in history that came from DmC. Hypocrites.
thank you!
I'm one of those people who liked DmC Devil May Cry, and I still kind of feel like this is a stretch even though it is clear Itsuno doesn't loathe DmC 2013 the way he hates DMC2, which is why you see some creative influence spilling into DMC5 as he's not just dismissing that game's existence
DmC: Devil May Cry has two of the greatest things in the franchise. Combat and the beautifully awesome level designs. Lilith's Club in Limbo is absolutely amazing to the ears and especially to the eyes.
Yeah those level designs were all incredible! Much better than all the "blood tunnels" in dmcv
Ones look cooler if your Castlevania fan
Would be so awesome if DMC was from another earth. DMC Multiverse would be great to see some different versions of Dante and Vergil.
I would love to see that crossover!
Now imagine Nero and DmC Dante
I never thought of the Kat and Nico thing. That's interesting. I also think they took the color scheme for DmC Vergil, and applied it at least a bit to DMC5 Vergil. Also I don't think Vergil ever did that "Portal Cut" thing till DmC, which he used a couple times in DMC5.
Also I sincerely hope they don't ditch Dante and Vergil. I mean they're not dead, and working together now. And they're in Hell where I'm sure really crazy shit can happen. Nero being the lead I can understand though.
Yeah, "Dante and Vergil VS Mundus rematch", when Capcom?
@@ИгорьДушкин-ш1к Yeah seriously! This would be a HUGE missed opportunity
Vergil Portal Cuts at the middle of the Arkham battle at DMC 3 though, during a cutscene
@@doncinati7644 Ooo I forgot about that or didnt notice
@@Ragiroth it’s all good :)
I think the reason people were so mad when DmC was announced was for similar reasons for people being unstable towards Ghost Busters 2016, because it was viewed as a reboot rather than a spin-off it made the fans feel like that was going to replace the main series and that was going Devil May Cry from now on until DMC 5 came out and actually felt like a spiritual reboot of the franchise satisfying both old and new fans.
Damn that intro about Kat and Nico was eye opening. They just changed the accent and Class Job for the everygirl sidekick archetype in dmc. 😨😨
Yes, only the job and accent. Absolutely nothing else, like you know, the whole personality and character. Kat doesn't even give you the power ups, she sends you to a place for a completely different reason and you just happen to find the weapons there.
By this logic you could compare any character who gives power ups to the main character. I mean wow I never realized Nice was just the weapons shop owner from Skyrim.
@@antelasic1950 not really. Their point is that the format of the character was heavily and poorly recycled. It’s their series, so Dark Souls comparison has nothing to do with it since it’s its own game and series from DMC ( because in life every thing is sort of mimicked ). Cap com for this series, could’ve made it a loss less obvious for true and new fans to see this recycled garbage ( don’t get me wrong, love both games. Just word of choice ) , and they only just made her very outspoken in comparison to Kat.
@@iTacolot How is it recycled? The characters act completely differently, their purpose in the story is different, the design isn't even that similar. In what way is she just more outspoken? You can't write down the different personality to "she's just more outspoken". By the same logic Dante's personality is just like Vergil's if he was more outspoken.
Kat is very serious, she only there to send Dante to a new place, her whole story is treated like some drama that needs to be taken seriously. Nico is serious about as often as Kyrie is onscreen in 5, she has a more confident and brash personality (which has a nice twist when she turns into a Dante fangirl), she makes weapons for others and that's the extent of her story (her backstory is mentioned like twice isn't trying to be some big serious plot point. Nico is obviously fine with what happened in the past and doesn't let that influence her.), and just because there's one scene where Kat drives a car is nowhere close to the screen time and attention the van and Nico's driving get's in 5. But yes, other than that, there is no difference. None whatsoever.
@@antelasic1950 i like kat, she cant fight but can support with everything she can, but clearly i dont like Kyrie, see just damsel in distress and do nothing, she doesn't even have enough screen time to show more personality
For me DmC Reboot is so much better than original series, I love it so much.. story line and everything about reboot is better than original
the remake we deserve!
No need, we need second part of it :)
@@umbasamufasa9676remake and reboot is... a very far different thing...
@muhammadwaldanaltaf but is it really???
@@umbasamufasa9676 Yes. Remake is like, remaking something that is already exists out of the original with adding new things to it but leaving the old stuffs in. but Reboot, is completely different and making something a lot new! Which is the example of DmC.
I can accept DmC and DMC-V being the "same" game in spirit. I see it as a case of "It's not what you said, it's the way you said it".
Both are endings and new beginnings. But while DMC-V felt more like a fond farewell, a long, warm, embrace and a toast to the future. It's bittersweet but at least you know, your old friends will be alright and you feel hopeful for whatever comes next.
The reboot on the other hand, initially felt like a kick to the groined.
And honestly, taking in all the points you've given. DmC, now feels less of a reboot and just the Beta Stage of V.
The strategy to reach new players worked for some.
Old fans got some points, and so do you, loved the video.
Thanks for the feedback!
There are some similarities between both games. I think Nero was always a rebel type but I found Nero endearing. I can’t remember his name but the director of 5 over saw the reboot so obviously he took some of the best elements for 5.
Great Video. Ignore the people who clearly just hate any form of change and expect a reboot to be an exact rehash of the original l.
Cheers! Thanks for the positive vibes!
Great video. I personally love DMC over 5. And this is from someone who was playing the first game when it came out.
you are brave indeed to be taking that stand lol. Just making this video got me flamed so hard on a TON of DMC fan boards...but i stand with you that both are good BUT DmC teaches you how to be very skilled with a single character by the end. DMCV teaches you to be only kind of skilled with 3 different ones by the end...
You can tell how much does people in the comment section knows about DMC in general. Dante isn't cool. He's just severely depressed all the time. He's quite literally just coping.
and after this might grow somwhow to become DMC3 Dante...an underrated prequel at its worst...
I've been looking for such a video ever since I played DMCV in 2019, but you've provided more parallels than I had thought of. Thanks for the awesome insight, cheers to all who enjoy the best of both worlds!
Also Kat = Cat, Nico = Neko = Cat in japanese
Mind Blown!!!!
I liked the video!! I don't entirely agree but loved the vid, and can see your points. With Nero though, he had that problem with authority and cocky personality in Devil May Cry 4 itself, they didn't need to look to the Reboot to craft him that way. Also V is a much more mysterious and detached of a character to Nero, than Vergil is to Reboot Dante.
I love the similarities you found though. At its core the reboot is still the more generic entry with blander gameplay, pretty unmemorable dialogue/interactions, and just doesn't have a much creative energy in it. Vergil being who he was also spoiled it for so many people, I don't blame them.
You don't agree with WHAT? he showed parts of it frame by frame and you're still denying cope harder
The problem with DMC reboot is not the change in Dante's archetype or gameplay.
The main issue is that Dante in DMC 2013 behaves like a parody of the original Dante. He behaves like a teenager, always losing it.
Dante in DMC 5 and 3 is usually a jerk with demons and foes, but he's never bitching about anything.
Some ideas may be the same in DMC5, but the execution is way better.
What if he was a petty jerk as a teen and slowly matured into propper dante though? You know like character growth? I like that idea personally
You're making some interesting points, but I'm afraid that your arguments are standing on wrong assumptions to begin with, which is what invalidates them. Many of the things that you compare, you have to oversimplify in order to make them fit together. For example, when you mention that Kat and Nico are both "human companions", which is ridiculous since there's no way they could be anything else other than humans to begin with, along with the fact that we've had human companions before (there are also more examples in the "similarities" you mentioned like this one). You're also getting stuff wrong with backstories and then fitting them together. For example Kat was "abused" by her father and so was Nico, according to you, but fail to see that that's tying in DMC4 and DMC5 since Agnus is Nico's father, and he was obsessed with his research more than anything (also he never abused Nico). And finally you're trying to make connections where there are none, like Dino denying authority and so does Nero at the end of DMC5. Nero doesn't deny anything at the end, he is overwhelmed by the fact that his supposed father abandoned him and his mother and now suddenly shows up in front of him, and he's pretty pissed. Here's the ways DmC influenced DMC. Camera became free instead of fixed, Style got an announcer, final kill has a slowdown. That's pretty much all it did. You also showed the environment changing in DmC and the floor breaking in DMC5 to assume similarity, when it's nowhere close the same thing and it also happens ONCE in DMC5, and you did the same with Urizen's beam attack and Bob's attack. That's ridiculous. Was there no laser attack before DmC? (There was, Nefasturris) .
If you read this, I hope you won't take it as an "attack" or something, because this isn't what it's meant to be. It's just me pointing out that you're drawing false equivalents where there are no similarities, either due to completely different meanings, your oversimplifications, or failing to take into consideration the similarities between DMC5 and all previous DMC series along with what DmC borrowed from the rest of the series.
To be honest I don't see the similarities between V and DmC Vergil... while they do serve similar roles, not only is V only trying to simply, you know, survive, due to the yamato separating him from Vergil, but he also shows a lot more character than DmC Vergil in my opinion... He never set out for power and openly says that he regrets his past actions... in the end he only rejoins Urizen in order to live... in a way, fix his mistakes
DmC: devil may cry had such a good soundtrack
DMC 5 has good soundtrack as well
He wasn't trying to make a comparison 😅
@@flori-9115 I think he was just stating his opinion
@@flori-9115 not a comparison lol
*Laughs in bury the light*
Finally someone not blinded by nostalgia! Dmc actually tried to give us a story beyond “Virgil has returned! Go kick his ass…again” also it always bothered me how humanity seems unaware of demon even though major cities get decimated every couple of years like how is there no anti demon army in the original series. Dmc has its problems sure but I’m someone who doesn’t like Japanese corniness I’d say Devil May Cry isn’t perfect either.
4:30 bro did you have a stroke?
I see a lot of people talking about how DmC took ideas from DMC4, but I'm not agreeing with them.
Adding to the points you've made in your video, I'd like to say that DMC5 FEELS more like DmC from a gameplay standpoint as well. The level design has more in common with the reboot than the games released prior to 2013, and each level sees you in a different location every time, whereas DMC1-4 often saw you exploring the same section of the same place two or three levels in a row with just slight variation before you move on.
The plot in DMC5 feels more like 2013, too, and not just in the ways you mentioned. Where previously, DMC was mostly a streamlined experience chronologically, with very few time skips between levels, 2013 introduced us to a plotline that unfolds over days, maybe even weeks, and DMC5's story spans a couple months (or at least A month, now I gotta play it again to remind myself)
Anyway, that's my two cents
The reason fans initially rejected the reboot is it wasn't time for one yet. We just had DMC 4 shortly before the reboot was even a thing. We just got introduced to Nero and we knew there was potential to his character. Nero not liking "Authority" like Donte isn't even a thing. He didn't like being called Deadweight by his mentor and uncle Dante. Another reason fans rejected DmC, we wanted closure to the original universe, Capcom was in a weird phase of hating certain franchises when Inafune left the company. DmC showed this in the literal sense, Resident Evil Operation Racoon City also showed this. Somewhere, Capcom found itself again, liking itself again. We can argue when Inafune left, Capcom became that angst Teenager angry the father of Mega Man left. Than we saw Capcom became the mature Adult, having game collections of its classic franchises to get back into the swing of things, gave us Mega Man 11 and than DMC5 and reigniting the relationship between itself and the fans once again
In my opinion, DMC 2013 would have been great if it wasn’t a Devil May Cry game. Everyone had came to love the Devil hunters of the series and felt that everything they love was thrown aside, if it wasn’t given the title of a beloved series it would have gotten more people to love it.
But its still a better dmc game then 2 and 4. This series was a mess way before the reboot happened. They has no where to go with the story and dmc5 put the series to rest unless you really want Nero to get his own games which nobody should want that. DMC has nowhere to go now unless you guess it a reboot.
@@edl4767 there are two things that the main franchise can do, make an origin game for Sparda since we know literally nothing about him except what we are told. Or make a game where Mundus returns to target Nero and Kyrie, which then Dante's son shows up to help Nero to stop him. (I say this because the last dialogue that Mundus and Dante have on Mallet Island.)
@@edl4767 Literally most fans like Nero after 5, and there are plenty of stories to tell no he is the lead. Only reason DmC is ok at best is because Itsuno had to come over to ninja theory and literally hold their hand. Go back to shit Donte.
@@edl4767 Better than 2, yes, it's gameplay is memed for good reason. Better than 4, I'd say not. Aside from 5 which straight copied it and then added on, DMC 4 probably has the most enjoyable player mechanics in the franchise, and had great choices when it came to art and colour use that made battlefields easy to process at a glance.
I'd hands down replay 4 over 1 and while it might sound controversial, 3, any day. 5 is probably still better overall, the additions to player mechanics from 4 and better enemy variety probably make up for the less clear art style.
I thought I was trippin when I first played. Thank you someone who agrees. DmC 2013 is very underated.
For real. Esp definitive
Fair points, itsuno did say he liked the reboot, so obviously he'll puts the elements he liked in 5.
Some of the similarities are absolutly coincidences thu😂
When virgil comes to gets his katana back from nero in dmc5, his stance exactly resembles virgil from DmC virgils downfall at beginning.
Capcom tried to satisfiy new fans in many ways.
True... But you're fishing for nothing... The reboot is irrelevant to DMC5 since any new player wouldn't know the reboot to begin with.
And even if they did... All for what?... A small showing of nothing? It's not even an easter egg to pay homage to the reboot.
Or in other words... The reboot doesn't have anything substantial in DMC5 outside of reused assets for cool reasons rather than respect for a failed reboot.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Hideaki Itsuno stated that he was a fan of DmC. He really liked that game. So yeah, there might be really respect for that game involved when re-using the things that worked.
@@Traumglanz
Respect is one thing. Making another DmC is another. I doubt DmC 2 will be created after everything that went down with DmC at launch.
Now... DmC did end better with Definitive Edition compared to its vanilla version. The vanilla version had both performance issues and Dante's terrible Color Combat System which Ninja Theory removed in the Definitive Edition. Vergil's kit was good. Character wise, the story was trying too hard to be edgy.
I have some disagreements, but you still got some solid points
Thanks for watching!
The jump cancel system from DmC is in DMC5 as well
true!
You know Dmc have great ost, but jesus fuck, Dmc 2013 ost is blasting as fuck
100% agree
I'm actually glad that DmC wasn't getting a sequel, otherwise we would not have the absolute goat, dmc5
I kinda liked DmC (artstyle, gameplay, soundtrack wise) but damn does it have probably the edgiest story I had ever seen 💀
I loved dmc reboot😓..
Don't be embarrassed or ashamed that you like something just don't be as extreme as the g.c.b.a or as we all know as the goku can beat anybody dude and no im not calling you that im just try to show a example
Same here bruh 😥
@Darth Nutsack I mean I can think of a few but let's not start that I've been called idiot [blank] fanboy enough to last a lifetime
This just confirms that DmC would’ve been a great game if you just scrub away any references to Devil May Cry.
Stfu about DmC being a great game if it was its own ip instead of devil may cry. It literally has a okayish storyline which wouldve been better originally from the TGS trailer.
DmC was a good game. It just didn’t deserve to be a “DevilMayCry” game. Like it actually comes off as a tumblr fanfic from teenage girl who wanted it as an ultra western edgy noir fantasy in the roots of America ghetto aesthetic
Basically anything that the CW churns out and Diablo Cody...
me, who likes DmC and DMC 5: Great video, made some good points.
*looks at the dislikes*
me: Is that salt I smell?
Bro i think you mean "SSSalt"
Honestly, I thought I was the only one who caught onto this only I felt like that DMC five took inspiration more on every single major game, including the reboot, rather than just reboot alone, but it definitely made a solid foundation for the fifth game.
Personally I like DMC. I like the concepts of the demons being mundane things used on humans to keep them sedated and docile. It was abit more interesting than just a demon. Like the symbolism of demonizing stuff you come across everyday like the media feels like it has more thought put into it.
Oh well. As someone who's played very little vanilla devil may cry I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak.
All I can really say is, I like DMC.
Its a lot like the movie "they live" in that way whichbi really enjoyed as well!
For all its said about DMC5 Nero being DmC Dante's doppleganger, I always thought he seemed more like Drew from the canceled Scalebound, which isn't surprising given that he was pretty much like a Nero anyway. What with his Dev-I mean Dragon Bringer and it was to be made by a bunch of ex-Capcom guys in Platinum Games. Plus there's also ex-NJPW/AEW wrestler Cody Rhodes as another possible inspiration for Nero.
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Were you really trying to say Kat was the first booty short and boot wearing female in the series because Lady would like to have a word with you.
But I'll be real. The reason I was disappointed in the DmC reboot is for a myriad of small reasons that builds up to a bigger implication. DMC4 was trying to add so much to the gameplay of the series by giving us a more accessible and fun command grab style character that also rewards staying on rhythm with your attacks to greatly boost their damage and change their properties to extend combos. While also introduced style switching and Dante being able to hold more than 2 weapons of guns and devil arms. Liberating Dante's abilities and giving him full access to his arsenal at the users discretion. So to me DmC needed to show me what about the gameplay was missing. I think we can all agree the story was definitely a downgrade but I didn't tty to focus on that during my playthrough. I just wanted to know what new things Dante can do. Dante loses style switching and styles in general for a more generalized moveset. This came at to great cost for a lot of the controls. No styles means no style button which means Dante's combo structure had to be more universal like being able to Aerial Rave without sword master and instead replacing what would've been Dante shooting his guns at two enemies or using dashes and teleports is now instead a launcher button. Removed a huge grip of Dante's move pool just for a single universal launcher button was a big fat no in my book. Then to top if all off his weapons were boring and I found using the shoulder buttons for weapon switching obnoxious. They were boring in the sense of lacking any gameplay identity. Demon weapons were the slow strong weapons and Angel Weapons were the fast Crowd Control weapons. Which homogenized Dante's playstyle which was now Demon for damage, rebellion for filler, and angels for crowd control. They had very little interesting interactions outside of the delay combos allowing you to access the other weapons finisher during a switch. But I felt that was a band aid to the glaring hole that is now missing which was the style system. The reasons people loved weapons like Nevan, Beowulf, Pandora, Artemis, and Lucifer was how the style system allowed for completely different approaches with the same weapons. Nevan is a long range weapon but with Swordmaster now you can use close range combos, Artemis could rain a hail of lasers with Gunslinger, and Lucifer will always be deemed as one Dante's most technical weapon due to the amount of planning needed for to be used at a comfortable level. When compared to just about any other weapon in the series DmC's weapons feel awfully generic even when compared to something like Alistar and Ifrit from DMC1. That was largely due to the fact of how different your movepool becomes when you DT in DMC1. Which is anything that bugged me about DmC. Devil Trigger just sucked I hated how it turned the whole screen a different color and for mass majority of fights was just a screen clearer. I couldn't tell you how different DmC Dante's DT felt because of how fast it allowed me to kill enemies even on the higher difficulties. If he gets more cancelable moves or even new unique ones like in DMC1 & 3 I have no idea. Then another thing that made me realize this game wasn't for me was the Bob Barbos fight. My friends were hyping up how this was the best boss in the game and when it started I thought the design was interesting but as soon as I saw the gimmick appear I broke the entire boss fight. If you remember one of the reasons people love this fight is because as you're fighting demons Bob makes them appear as normal humans that Dante is styling on. But you know what really sucks about that? You don't need to kill a single additional enemy during that whole sequence. So I was just watching Bob talk mad shit as Dante ran in a circle not hitting anything. Then it just progresses you to the next phase of the fight because it's based on a timer and not enemy kill count making the entire sequence actually pointless and makes what should've been a edgy seen just a complete and utter joke. Hit the 3 switches wail on Bob and done. If anyone likes that Boss fight they can go eat glue. Which is how I felt about all Boss fights in DmC. Just a horrible and gimmicky fights that add no substance to any of my decision making during the fights. Look at Credo from DMC4 it's viewed as one of the best boss fights due to all the interesting interactions you can make during his fight. But somehow they made boss fights less interesting then the giant flying centipede. At least that thing had elemental weaknesses which made you think about weapon choices a lot more and was actually a helpful mechanic in the next boss fight. I would've loved DmC if they actually kept anything about the gameplay that gave it it's own unique flavor but instead made some homogenized Dante and gave us a lot of basic af boss designs that I don't care about. And again nothing to do with story on my side just how generic the combat and enemies felt. Itsuna was on the design team but that doesn't help me with anything that just makes me more afraid for the series even after DMC5. Idk how a Dev of a popular series got so out of touch with what fans loved about the series and that they completely change the gameplay from the ground up. Also I know SE fixed a lot of problems with the game but too many of my issues with it are the core mechanics I can't escape from. I don't even care about the minor improvements it's not the kind of combat I want.
Never forgive color coded enemies that can only be hurt by a specific weapon type. That was just fucking dumb.
I would like to have a word with her as well
@@umbasamufasa9676 Ye she a cutie
This is some quality content right here.
Can we push this channel to 1k subs?
Thanks for the support! Hoping to get another one out soon!
Does this mean that Capcom might entertain the notion of exploring the concept of Vergil's downfall? Just their version of it?
Do you mean the reboot version
@@user-sd4le2tk1j Reboot, Ninja Theory version however one calls it
nero seems more stylish than reboot dante
The mental gymnastics are insane
Stylish even???
@@umbasamufasa9676 nah not really lmao, most of you points were “they look similar” and “Nero has short hair now” yes we already know that itsuno loves the DmC reboot so he took inspiration for it. But the notion that it’s the same game is ridiculous.
@@durpy8184 but...the v/vegil 3rd act betrayal???
@@umbasamufasa9676 as I said before itsuno likes the reboot so there’s going to be similarities sure, but it ain’t the same game.
That's DmC fans coping mechanism, they want to believe that DMC5 is more of a DmC than the actual continuation of the original and already established DMC.
I'll take DmC over most of the mainline games any day of the week for the stages alone. The fact that it feels like the levels themselves are fighting you every step of the way on top of the enemies is something no other game in the series has ever come close too.
yes, you're right EXCEPT, people crying about the reboot DID "save" the series because if they didn't you'd be stuck with the continuation of the truly awful writing of the reboot, not to mention not a single really likable character.
I think dante matured by the end to be less brazen than he was at the begginning and willing to accept more responsability. Give him a few years and he may have become someone similar to dantes awakenings version of dante...
@@umbasamufasa9676 HMMAYBE, unless the rebootverse went through a serious tone change I can't really see Donte developing into anything like Dante.
tho, I feel even if the writing was less "Shakespearean", I feel the reboot would've been met with a lukewarm reception at best, seeing how nobody wanted anything to change, people were happy with what DMC was.
Personally, I think a reboot was doomed to fail regardless of the writing and tone. If too different, people wouldn't consider it "proper" Devil may cry, if too similar, they would've said that the reboot did nothing new and was pointless, truly a lose-lose situation, that I don't think had any chance working in any timeline.
Also to touch on the comparisons you drew between Donte and Nero in 5 ama have to disagree on some of it.
character design-wise I agree, I do also think Nero took some inspiration from the design of Donte.
however the idea that Nero was "westernized" I disagree with, despite the entire game looking less anime and more realistic I don't think they change much of anything, and his DT is the most anime shit I've ever seen!
as for the actual CHARACTER of Nero, he didn't "get" all those traits after the reboot, HE HAD THEM IN DMC 4! i don't know if that was what you were trying to imply but he sure as hell didn't get them from Donte. Nero always had an "edge" attitude, he swore a lot in 4, just like he does in 5 (tho he does swear more in 5), and he always had problems with authority, that's like one of the main highlights of the first cutscene after you beat Dante in the tutorial!
(And he had snatch in DMC 4, and he used it for platforming, so you can't really say that THAT was an influence from DmC either) basically what I'm saying is that Donte is Nero taken to a distasteful extreme.
But I do think that all the other points you brought up in the video are very valid and make sense! good video man!
@@ThisMusician586 we're probably getting it anyway so we'd have it earlier yes
Ok, so I could write an essay on everything you got wrong (like how you only look at the characters surface traits, or how Nero acts the same way he does in 4 and if anything Dante in DmC was copying him (really poorly)) but I'll just focus on the main thing you seem to have left out of this comparison. DmC dumbed down the gameplay mechanics while 5 not only advanced them from the reboot but from 4 as well, making one the most mechanically complex games out there (You know, the main reason people play these games). I swear people who think fans don't like DmC because Dante doesn't have white hair should really look at two games more closely.
I would watch that essay
I'm also a fan of the DMC game. I think it's great. Not perfect, but great. Loved this take on it. Good video dood.
Thanks for the feedback!
Now while I would disagree that it's a reboot, I won't lie, I can see there's a lot of similiarites, for 5 and DmC. At least you helped me realize it.
And if you ask me, I'd love to see a sequel in DmC. I would love to see Ninja Theory's take on Nero and Kyrie. I hope they can actually make Kyrie more plot relevant rather than just being a background character/damsel in distress.
Also those dislikes. Yikes.
Lol Devil May Cry fans can be...passionate...lol...thanks for the kind words!
You understand they have sword that can cut reality and can come back when ever they feel like it and no way was anything just pushed back but was fixed
Honestly they should have taken a page out of the reboot's environment and level design. The levels in DMC5 looked bland as hell and were literally a straight line.
The intro comparison is perfect! Lol
For me, I think a lot of the comparisons raised here are simplified to the point of being worthless, Kat and Nico for example. Aside from that, this is really stuff we already knew since Itsuno stated multiple times that he was bringing in some of the stuff that worked in the reboot. Itsuno has also stated that his favorite DMC game was the reboot.
Aside from that, I think the big difference is that the reboot gave many reasons for longtime fans to be upset while DMC5 didn't. The redesign got backlash and Capcom/Ninja Theory took shots at the fans, the infamous "not in a million years" scene was taken as a insult by the fanbase, the game only ran 30fps on consoles when every other entry have run at 60, a completely different control scheme, and color coded enemies (an annoyance in every action game ever made.) DMC 5 made it very clear early on and it's very clear in the final product that it is for the fans of DMC. This is why DMC5 doesn't have puzzles or platform sections: fans don't like them. DMC5 did it's best to win fans over while the reboot, in the eyes of the fans, did everything it could to piss them off. That's what I think is the key between the reboot and DMC5. The similarities may be very similar but the differences are very different.
Abandonment and abuse are two separate things
Btw v didn't turn against dante and nero because v is vergil's humanity while urizen is his demon side and in the end vergil didn't want to fight so much because he learned to embrase his humanity because v's memories
I guess a more accurate statement would have been "resulted in a twist in which both games reenact the final fight of DMC3"
V first scene in the game > The whole edge moments and dialogues in DmC reboot
This is the best intro to a video ever
hey thanks for that! hope you enjoy the video!
So, basically, they learned from their failures, cut the fat, and kept what was good from the reboot while going back to the original story everyone preferred.
Yeah, this is exactly what everyone wanted. no wonder DmC V has been so beloved.
The problem about original fans is that they really can't understand the word "reboot"
all good, as long as they rage 5 paragraph essays in my comment section, algorithm likey!
So you say.
Yeah, I'm sorry but people that hated DMC either never played it or were so immovable in their expectations they didn't give it a chance. That came constantly wowed me with how it presented the demon world inside the modern world. Tons of creativity in that game, which impressed me with each new level.
Hey im 1 year late, if youre talkinf about DmC, No it suked lmao
The world design is pretty much their normal world but with that thanos snap filter.. and it looks like new york, ew
If DMC: yeah they pretty much didn't played 3 and 4 enough
And people called me crazy for saying that DMC5 is just DMC Reboot 2.0 , Everything I loved in DMC1 , DMC3 and DMC4 is completely butchered in DMC5 Reboot 2.0 , The only thing they got right was the gameplay which is great but my god , the characters design , Clothes , Personality looked and felt like a bunch of street bums , The soundtrack is ass and easily the worst in the franchise , The bosses are forgettable outside king Cerberus , the story is garbage , The map design and platforming is hands the worst and most generic I’ve seen in a DMC game , Lady And Trish are reduced to side characters and damsels in distress and you can’t play as them , The final boss is a huge disappointment , I was expecting a big 3 team fight between Dante , Vergil , and Nero against a returning Mundus but nope , Virgil Vs Dante round 4 baby ! , such a huge disappointment , 😒🤦♂️
Gotta love those tentacle hallways!
@@umbasamufasa9676 Lol , Only if you’re a tentacle hentai fan , 😏 ,,, But Seriously fella , The map design and levels are absolutely trash , Heck DMC Reboot has better levels design and platforming sequences , This is baffling to me fella , 😒
@@shintenku I think level design is one of DMCs best features. V did not impress
@@umbasamufasa9676 Sadly I completely disagree , The past games had way much better locations and also better platforming sequences , And Yeah V is trash to me , It’s totally fine to like this game , but for me I was expecting a home run of a DMC game , A satisfying conclusion to Dante and Vergil , A great finale that ties in the real villain of the franchise aka mundus , He’s the reason why Vergil is more corrupted than when was in DMC 3 , And Also the reason why Dante’s family is dead , So logically it should have been Mundus for a final showdown while Dante is the one to finish him off , After all Mundus did say in DMC 1 finale , “ Dante , I will return and I will rule this world , Dante reply’s : Goodbye , And if you do comeback , Give my regards to my son will ya !? , Such a waste of a conclusion 😔
I mean, Nero already had the edgy attitude and problem with authority in DMC 4. He always had a smart mouth, didn't go to church and had a bad reputation with his fellow Knights in The Order of the Sword, because he had a rebellious streak and a power that they didn't understand. It's just that Nero's rebellious character traits weren't overplayed to the point of being embarrassing to watch. Also I feel like the attempts to connect Nico and Kat are a stretch. Sure they have similar looking clothes, but the way the two act couldn't be more different. They also both had issues with one or more of their parental figures, but that applies to literally every major character in this series. it was in no way unique to Kat's character before this. Considering Nico's father is Agnus from DMC 4, her lineage feels more like an attempt to build off DMC 4 and set up the whole running theme of family that DMC 1, 3, 4 and 5 had going on. It really didn't feel like an intentional nod to DmC to me at all. DMC 4 was Capcom's first attempt at giving the series a fresh start with a new main character, but due to issues in development, DMC 4, while still fun, ended up feeling unfinished, with character arcs being put on pause instead of reaching a natural conclusion. Because of this, Nero never really came into his own as the new main character for the franchise the way Capcom had intended. DMC 5 really just goes back and finishes the job that DMC 4 started, setting Nero up to be the new protagonist going forward. But this time, his position as the new future for the franchise feels way more well deserved. So I don't really see this as a reboot of DmC, but rather the completion of what was left unfinished from DMC 4. They definitely took inspiration from ideas they had in DmC of course, but the game felt far more like a classic DMC in terms of how the story plays out and how the returning characters are written. The seeds for this game were planted way back in DMC 4. DmC was just used as additional fertilizer on top of what was already there. I definitely see what you mean about the actual character design for Nero being similar to DmC Dante though.