@@outkast978 200 million people never have a chance to meet and really get to know any politician in their lives, yet they must vote for somebody. The president is elected based on not what kind of person he/she is, but based on the image that he/she shows to the public. He/she is the product of his acting and public relations team.
When you make politicians run ads and need donors to be elected and make the election process be more a popularity contest you make them a product. The product can be very good and the ads do not necessarily lie about the product but helps creates a warped idea of what we look when we vote. I said help because no matter who you are you will, at least in part, vote with your gut .
Funny you say this because that wasn’t always the case. In the 19th century the president could have walked down the street of a busy town and not even been recognised. Back then, presidents were known by their words, and their ideology, and their promises, not their image. The invention of television was a disaster for the human race.
jbond5150 Aye, but the claim is that there is a common causal principle here: 'Being a womanizer causes attraction in (many) women.' This was not a case of illicitly inferring from a correlation. It was the assertion of a kind of causation without any reference to evidence of a general correlation.
I always thought it was funny that Don called Kennedy a silver spoon in this scene considering Roger is right on his side and Roger certainly is a silver spoon.
With respect, Mike. But is that a fair characterisation of Pete Campbell? Pete rejects his family business interests in order to go into the world of Advertising, which we see in Season 1 causes great stress between he and his family. He effectively rejects his background to strike out and become his own thing, self made in his own right... He's also deeply uncomfortable in "New Amsterdam" when asked about the history of his Dykeman background, delegating it to Trudy... Pete comes from old money but is hardly defined by it. Where as Roger lives fully in his wealthy privilege and his fathers accomplishments until Season 5 (The Black Sox analogy about his game being "thrown".)
We know that, because we've seen Pete fight with his parents. But Don, Roger and the other guys don't know that, to them he's as silver spoon as they come.
Mike Abel - Roger inherited a multimillionaire dollar business and very quickly became it's boss, if not immediately. Pete, despite coming from old money, has forged his own career almost on his own, branching out from his family. Sure his connections might have helped him get a foot in the door, but really, he's done most of it on his own. He worked his way up.
Not a major point in this scene but at :56 it looks like Don is holding a Parker brand Jotter pen that has a silver top with an arrow clip with the lower part of the pen being another color. That design is still being made in 2019. Back in 1980 or '81 when taking college classes I found an identical pen on the sidewalk and it's still being used.
@@dannysunay8099 You can get them for around $16.99 at Staples office supply stores. A refill cartridge cost from around $2.00 to around $5.00 depending on where it's sold. Staples will probably have refill cartridges at the lower end of the price range. Too the cartridges hold a lot of ink. These pens have a lifetime guarantee. I have quite a few of the Parker jotters and can tell you that if you purchase one and/or a re-fill cartridge you're getting your money's worth.
So Don is two sides of the same coin. One being Nixon, because of his origin story from nothing to something greater (from Dick to Don), and the other being Kennedy, for his personality and behaviour (womanizer, leader, moralist, fake). Love it
Then they both became presidents, one ended his career in tragedy because of what some people call 'the Kennedy curse', then the other left the office surrounded by disgrace.
It seems like, whoever Don was or pretended to be, wasn't gonna ended right. So, if you think about it, maybe this allegory is a hint of his last episode's breakdown
I agree but I don’t think I would call JFK fake. Don is definetly fake but i dont really get that for JFK, his womanizing was certainly wrong but he won the election fairly and I just don’t understand how he would be ‘fake’.
What's interesting to me is that Don draws this clear distinction between the favorable "self-made" candidate and the unfavorable "nouveau-riche" candidate. Don is quite literally both. But you see how he WANTS to think of himself and to have people see him by which perspective he privileges over the other. So much interesting character development in this scene.
As far as we know about Don, he was never a "nouveau riche". We see him survive and rise by himself, and even supporting Anna Draper as far as she lived.
There's also a parallel to be made between what Don thinks of Nixon at this point in time vs. his eventual public image and Don's own tendency to become increasingly unmoored as the the 60's move on without guys like him.
@@user-do2ev2hr7h For sure. That's starts to become clear in season 6. Don's increasingly getting more humble, in attitude, but deep down he's ego's still having trouble adapting to that reality.
@@luandesanta250 I don't know that he's getting humble so much as he is being humbled. It would be virtually impossible for him not to become more humble given the weight of circumstances bearing down upon him.
@@CharlieBrown20XD6 I know Pete’s intelligence is never mentioned much. He (if allowed to) would have pioneered in a lot of areas in that industry. The African American Market just to mention on. But his awful social skills made him less then tolerable.
One of the reasons I loved this show. The commentary on their cultural zeitgeist was always spot-on and delivered with the caveat that most everything turned by marketing sleight-of-hand. Their power to shape public attitudes was incalculable as the actual puppet masters pulling the strings, more so than any politicians they helped to elect. In this case of the 1960 election, it was pretty clear. Youth was an easier and more attractive sell than stodgy paternalism.
Once again Don is correct, in politics, positive campaigns are always more effective, negative adverts are a sign of a lack of ideas and only spur apathy.
@@samdoesvids1339 Yup he is. But not all voters are like him. Hillary's campaign put extreme PC culture in people. And those people equated everyone else as Nazi Hitler.
@@HolyRamanRajya True, running on how bad Trump is isn't a reason to vote for you. Plus, loads of Trump voters voted for Obama, so...they ain't racist.
What’s funny is that Nixon may have been a self made man but his Naval Career was one spent mostly doing administrative duties, and JFK did everything possible to put himself in a combat role and was eventually a hero.
Nixon joined the navy even thought he was a Quaker, his first job in the navy was at home in the states and he requested to go where the action was and there he experienced Japanese bombings.
Nixon requested to serve on SCAT, responsible for supporting logistics for operations on the frontlines. His unit was also bombed daily and it was considered one of the most dangerous jobs despite him married and a Quaker which could easily have gotten him out from doing such a job.
Monkhem This US had an Indo China policy since FDR. The blame for the American involvement in Vietnam doesn’t rest with one President or individual. Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and LBJ all had blood on their hands as each escalated American involvement further. Nixon came into the war with a different strategy. Nixon vegan drawing down troop levels but increased bombing. While some argue the war was prolonged; however Nixon was able to use the war as leverage to open Sino American relations in return achieving Detente with the Soviets which cleared the way for SALT1 and 2. Kennedy is not innocent regarding Vietnam but there is plenty of blame to go around. Kennedy was a product of his time and saw the Vietnam conflict as an element of the Cold War rather than seeing it for what it truly was, a Civil War.
@aerodog2 what the hell are you talking about blocked immigration? Ted Kennedy's immigration policy exploded the number of immigrants coming into the US, disliking Ted Kennedy for "limiting" immigration is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
If you read Nixon's many biographies and take the time to think critically about the whole of his career and the spirit of the times he lived in, there is much to admire about this flawed man. But only if your mind is open.
Nixon was not as bad as the left wing media made him out to be. Nixon did spy on democrats but he and the republicans did not start the spying. Remember in that era half the democrats were KKK leaning.
2018 people still arguing that one candidate was pure good and the other utter evil and both candidates are long dead. As a writer it's very comforting that this will never changes and I don't have to be very creative with my narratives.
Candidates having good and bad charachteristcs doesn't make them equal. Sometimes, candidates can be utter evil and pure good. To think that all politicians are the same is simply not healthy because you can equate stains with shit.
It's like the "McNulty get's profiled" scene in The Wire: Don Draper: When I see Nixon, I see myself. Me: A deeply insecure man of humble roots who's riven high in a system he both desperately wants to control and also hates, who often also falls for his own self-destructive tendencies? Yeah pretty much Don.
This scene is actually about Don vs Roger, and their very different upbringings. Roger with the silver spoon and handed the business. Don had to fight for everything he has.
That's right. The episode title "Nixon vs Kennedy" is obviously about the election, but it's also about the conflict between Don (Nixon) and Pete (Kennedy), which culminates in the excellent "Who cares?" scene with Cooper.
It's ironic hearing how Sterling thinks Don hates Rachel. When in reality it's shown that she's the only girl he ever truly understood, which is why she is introduced in the pilot, and he can't stop thinking about her seasons later.
I don't know if I would have described Nixon as a war hero. He was by all accounts an efficient and popular Officer. But he was a REMF, yes? Never held a combat command!
Being in the rear area didn't spare Nixon or Kennedy bombing raids. I hate when millennials or GenXers write of Nixon, they don't know what they are talking about. Nixon was a lawyer and he made the agreements with the locals to supply the Navy ships with fresh vegetables. It kept the sailors from getting scurvy. Nixon's relationships with the local tribes was legendary. Nixon organized giant poker games when the Navy command would move island to island on transport ships. You had to have $5,000 cash to get in the game, there was a waiting list, and every Navy officer wanted in the game. After the war was done Nixon terminated millions of dollars in Naval aircraft contracts. The USAAF was getting new P-47s and P-63s to fly to the scrapyard. The US Navy's contracts terminated the day the war was ended. BTW, Nixon was JAG in the Navy & he was well respected as a lawyer, best in the Pacific. Last, Draper does not strike me as a former combat officer. He's too slick, too refined, and does not look like he has ever lived like an animal.
Don has no real political affiluation and has stated he doesnt vote though he is anti war Pete is old money New England democrat, the type who would vote for Hillary in a second. Roger is conservative though pretty lax when it comes to social issues...maybe libertarian by todays standards. Bert would probably be what is considered anarcho capitalist nowadays. He loves his Ayn Rand.
Pete was more Rockerfeller Republican. Who do you think is funding this Sterling Cooper anti-Kennedy campaign? Remember they were doing this work on free, not charging because it was about building up their brand in those WASP elite clubs that didn't want Nixon in. Those Rockerfeller types might be progressive a bit on social issues like more compassionate on race (if anything to show how virtous they were- like Pete when gets all pious attacking everyone in the office when MLK is shot). But they were certainly conservative on economics and won't have liked Kennedy coming in with big spending social programs that might raise their taxes.
In 50s and 60s New England voted Republican. It was liberal but Republican. Heck, Coolidge was from New England! There were conservatist Democrats too those days. Now it's more aligned and polarized.
@@trad13 Made a mistake. I later mentioned- 'won't have liked Kennedy coming in with big spending social programs that might raise their taxes.' Meant to say anti-Kennedy not anti-Nixon at the top.
@@nobad6134 Actually Kennedy has decreased taxes. It's Johnson who's invented second coming of New Deal. Which is paradox, becausse Johnson was perceived as a conservative, he was to balance progressivim of Kennedy.
>Kennedy Ad >Nothing but bold promises that literally any politican can make >Nixon ad >Misses the point of being an ad entirely but at the very least Nixon tries to grab your attention from an economic point of view It makes sense why Donald and co. voted for Nixon since Nixon is in the market to save you as much money from Tax Cuts and since Don and company are in the business of making money off course that appeals to their needs
Interesting thing about the Kennedy / Nixon debate. If you heard it on the radio people thought that Nixon won it. If you saw it on television people said that Kennedy won it.
Who do you think could have been a closet Kennedy supporter in Sterling Cooper at this time? Sal maybe due to Catholic heritage? Paul Kinsey? (Though Paul was a cultural liberal at that point it wasn't like the Democrats were associated with cultural and social liberalism, but his youth and seeming lack of relative family wealth may have made him a potential Kennedy voter) Pete and Ken were both young, but seems like the type of old money east coast republicans which still ruled the GOP then.
Democrats at the time had lots of KKK in their ranks. Over half the democrat senators voted against the civil rights act. By the way there is no such thing as social liberalism it is a made up term that makes no sense.
@@HansenDing Pete was born and raised in NYC, raised as a Rep. but we saw how he did not get along with his parents well at all. Ken was dyed-in-the-wool New Englander (VT) as was Kennedy. Each of them had significant reasons to support Kennedy, particularly against Californian Richard Nixon.
What does that have to do with anything. They were still running against each other for president. You know who else was friendly back in the day? Trump & the Clintons.
It’s interesting to see the evolution of political advertising. In the 60’s they could get away with just a catchy jingle, but now advertising is focused on policy (like Nixon’s). It’s all “Medicare for all” or “build the wall.” Americans have become much more interested in public policy.
@@WhaddupDoc yeah i know the history. However us getting of the gold standard has lead us today, with our money having been inflated to high hell and everything from steel to the stock market being inflated. What must goes up must come down.
@@WhaddupDoc so how do you feel about the current narrative of how over 1/5th of all dollars printed have been printed in the last year. Is it not as bad as it is made out to be? It sounds pretty bad to me, but I don't know shit about fuck
This scene and the plot to help Nixon's campaign always cracked me up. John Slattery in real life is a die hard Democrat, was interesting seeing him play these scenes out, he did admirably.
Huge Mad men fan, but sorry I don't get the joke. Must be because I'm not American or alive in the sixties, but what should Ethel Kennedy do with an icepick?
I don't think it's Ethel Kennedy, just "Ethel" as a generic name for a wife - and the ice pick is to drive into the head or TV. Sort of like saying "If I have to hear this song one more time, I'll blow my brains out."
Lallin92 it’s a reference to icepick lobotomies that were used as treatments for mental disorders like depression or mania. They’re essentially saying that seeing Nixon makes them go crazy.
feel like there’s an interesting reading into this with McCain and Obama. although I don’t know how early into 2007 this whole episode was written. but it does seem a bit of a reflection of conservative America using things like affirmative-action as an excuse similar to buying their way into prestigious universities. I haven’t really thought this through but it’s an interesting idea to explore on your own
In NYC today, I never assume anything about a person’s gender identity. Like, the voice gives clues to a gay man, but not always. It’s often very subtle. I’ve met butch lesbians and I’ve met lesbians who loved trying on magnificent couture dresses as a hobby but who were definetly not into men. It’s just so hard to tell in this city now and that fact is what makes it so great. 😊
Not smart to bring up how Richard Nixon made his money. The Kennedy team would have looked into it and then proceeded to win in a landslide. He did not make it playing poker
You run a positive ad because your challenge isn't to win new converts; The challenge is to get people that agree with you already to GO TO THE POLLS. If voter turnout is less than 50% then you don't need to change minds you need to motivate minds.
Yes, everyone with power in the company, in this season, was pretty much in line with everything that nixon stood for and if nixon had won it would be good for the company as whole, if i remenber correctly.
What he means is that they were doing that campaign to try to impress another client. They were doing it for free. The other clients were “paying clients” meaning they are actually giving money for the work they are doing.
"A lot of Kennedy voters were superficial and kidding themselves. Camelot was illusory." Apparently you weren't around then. Camelot was a creation of the press. Most people didn't give a shit.
"Kennedy certainly got a free pass from the MSM, not just for his peccadilloes but also his (lack of) intellectual depth" Are you talking about JFK? Lack of intellectual depth ... As compared to Nixon? Give me a fuckin' break.
This when the writers told us inconclusively that Don was a Conservative Republican. His boss Bert Cooper was a Goldwater Republican as evidenced by his Ayn Rand philosophies. I wonder which political leanings Roger Sterling possessed
I don't think Don is a conservative Republican. Throughout the show, to the extent he shows any political feelings on anything, he has anti-war sentiment. In one episode, I think set around 1968, he flatly states he's opposed to the war in Vietnam. His anti-war feelings are real and obviously derive from his personal experience. He reacts with revulsion to his father-in-law's use of a WWI German helmet as a collectible, and he is also horrified, on a trip to California, when Pete is trying to land a nuclear weapons manufacturer as a client (if I recall correctly). He is also generally pro-civil rights. Neither of these things was a popular position with conservative Republicans, especially at that time. None of this is the same thing as saying that Don has the courage of his convictions, or that he intends to act on any of his political feelings. At bottom, Don is selfish and a coward, though he does have attacks of the conscience. In this scene, Don is not talking about issues. He is talking purely from the viewpoint of the vacuous advertising world, which he knows so well: He thinks Nixon should sell himself as someone people can identify with. Roger is a conservative, as you'd expect from a patrician of his class. There's a scene where he admonishes Joan for crying after Marilyn Monroe's death, saying that there are more significant figures for whom mourning was justified, like Roosevelt: "I hated him," Roger says, "but you felt like you knew him." Cooper is an Ayn Rand worshiper and also a racist (the two usually go together, of course). We get the impression throughout the show that Pete is a liberal, but he is also so ferociously self-centered that it is not quite clear if his occasional political outbursts -- against Harry Crane in the wake of King's assassination, for instance -- are genuine or merely a posture of some sort.
SteveNelsonBrigade I don't think Roger is conservative, at least not at the end of the show, since he embrace the counter culture pretty well with the LSD experience
In real life people are more complex than a label, I think that's what this show really brings out. People are walking paradoxes, full of contradictions. My father is a life-long Democrat, but he's conservative on a lot of issues. He may vote blue at the national level but in state/local races it's really about who's talking his language. He's a far richer man than he was during his militant college years and his views on certain issues have changed as a result. I know him better than most and it's hard to classify him. That's humanity.
There were liberal Republicans, and conservative Democrats in 1960. Although Don wasn't very vocal about it, you see his views on African Americans throughout the show, talking to the black waiter in the first episode, how he treated his housekeeper, to hiring Dawn as his secretary. At that time, Republicans took pride in Lincoln freeing the slaves. This was before Johnson's Civil Rights Act. And before Nixon's Southern strategy. Most people like Roger Sterling hated Democrats because FDR created the 90% tax on the rich during WWII. That rate stayed the same until Kennedy dropped it to about 71% when he was elected. Yes, Burt was Tea Party before it had a name.
I think that's exactly right. Don doesn't seem super politically engaged, especially outside the first season, but he definitely seems to be a slightly liberal republican, which was a thing back in the 60's.
Doesn't nouveau riche count as being self made? I mean the first Kennedy to arrive in America in the 1800s was a barrel maker, then his kids made money.
And then somewhere down the line, the Kennedys became a political fixture in Boston and one Joe Sr., whose fortune was built on bootlegging and the like, established his national bona fides bouncing around FDR’s administration. Joe then parlayed his influence in trying to make his family a national political dynasty. John Kennedy’s marble column of a jumping off point was miles higher than Nixon’s.
Recent immigrant? Hilarious how yanks consider themselves members of some other country. I’ve got an Irish Grandmother and Scottish Grandfather, but I was born to English parents in London. I’ve never considered myself as anything other than English. Why can’t Americans just say they are Americans?
Kennedy was far better for national morale, though some find it frightening when every hard-working American is suddenly invigorated with a sense of optimism.
"...doesn't cloud the mind with, I don't know, issues..." Perfect.
Most every line is so lovingly loaded.
@@onlythequestion huh
keep your logic out of politics thanks
Hey, seeing that today
"The president is a product." Some things never change, for better or worse.
These are ad guys.. everything is a product to them.
@@outkast978 200 million people never have a chance to meet and really get to know any politician in their lives, yet they must vote for somebody.
The president is elected based on not what kind of person he/she is, but based on the image that he/she shows to the public. He/she is the product of his acting and public relations team.
When you make politicians run ads and need donors to be elected and make the election process be more a popularity contest you make them a product. The product can be very good and the ads do not necessarily lie about the product but helps creates a warped idea of what we look when we vote. I said help because no matter who you are you will, at least in part, vote with your gut .
Funny you say this because that wasn’t always the case. In the 19th century the president could have walked down the street of a busy town and not even been recognised. Back then, presidents were known by their words, and their ideology, and their promises, not their image. The invention of television was a disaster for the human race.
Capitalism in a nutshell
Harry: It's catchy like it gets in your head and makes you want to blow your brains out.
Oh God. LMAO! WRONG choice of words!!
So that's what they used in MKUltra.
Holden Menard 1917*
@@SkankHunt8008 it is a dark joke, very much on purpose.
@@SkankHunt8008 Your sarcasm doesn't read in text fella.
pretty sure its intentional given that this show is fictional and is written in 2008 onwards.
"Women find out about that, it'll push him up to the top."
It's not false
***** Clinton too, though Kennedy and Clinton were a bit more smooth in their means of being outed.
jbond5150 Aye, but the claim is that there is a common causal principle here: 'Being a womanizer causes attraction in (many) women.' This was not a case of illicitly inferring from a correlation. It was the assertion of a kind of causation without any reference to evidence of a general correlation.
Only men understand this dichotomy. You don't get women by looking lonely.
@jbond5150 always some idiot like you in every thread...
“I see Nixon, I see myself” said the identity thief
I always thought it was funny that Don called Kennedy a silver spoon in this scene considering Roger is right on his side and Roger certainly is a silver spoon.
Roger Sterling comes from a wealthy family but Pete Campbell embodies old money.
With respect, Mike. But is that a fair characterisation of Pete Campbell? Pete rejects his family business interests in order to go into the world of Advertising, which we see in Season 1 causes great stress between he and his family. He effectively rejects his background to strike out and become his own thing, self made in his own right... He's also deeply uncomfortable in "New Amsterdam" when asked about the history of his Dykeman background, delegating it to Trudy... Pete comes from old money but is hardly defined by it. Where as Roger lives fully in his wealthy privilege and his fathers accomplishments until Season 5 (The Black Sox analogy about his game being "thrown".)
We know that, because we've seen Pete fight with his parents. But Don, Roger and the other guys don't know that, to them he's as silver spoon as they come.
Mike Abel - Roger inherited a multimillionaire dollar business and very quickly became it's boss, if not immediately. Pete, despite coming from old money, has forged his own career almost on his own, branching out from his family. Sure his connections might have helped him get a foot in the door, but really, he's done most of it on his own. He worked his way up.
Roger is probably simply recognising the point Don is making regarding human nature, as it perceives privilege.
I love the cut to Pete Campbell as Don says "well bred"
Little smile so you know Pete loves hearing Don values a quality Pete possesses
That song Paul makes up.... I can never get out of my head for like 4 days whenever I watch the show again.
I thought I was the only one
Not a major point in this scene but at :56 it looks like Don is holding a Parker brand Jotter pen that has a silver top with an arrow clip with the lower part of the pen being another color. That design is still being made in 2019. Back in 1980 or '81 when taking college classes I found an identical pen on the sidewalk and it's still being used.
I should say the PEN is still being used though sidewalk is still being used too!
Are these pens expensive?
@@dannysunay8099 You can get them for around $16.99 at Staples office supply stores. A refill cartridge cost from around $2.00 to around $5.00 depending on where it's sold. Staples will probably have refill cartridges at the lower end of the price range. Too the cartridges hold a lot of ink. These pens have a lifetime guarantee. I have quite a few of the Parker jotters and can tell you that if you purchase one and/or a re-fill cartridge you're getting your money's worth.
I have a Parker 51. It's top is gold. I'd like it so much more were it silver.
Andrew Brendan
Mad Pen
“Let’s go down swinging” nice attitude there Pete. 😂😂
"I agree. Let's go down swinging!"
Oh God, Pete was so hilariously bad with words in season 1.
A good foreshadow to when he went down swinging at the fist of Lane 😂
So Don is two sides of the same coin. One being Nixon, because of his origin story from nothing to something greater (from Dick to Don), and the other being Kennedy, for his personality and behaviour (womanizer, leader, moralist, fake). Love it
Then they both became presidents, one ended his career in tragedy because of what some people call 'the Kennedy curse', then the other left the office surrounded by disgrace.
It seems like, whoever Don was or pretended to be, wasn't gonna ended right. So, if you think about it, maybe this allegory is a hint of his last episode's breakdown
I agree but I don’t think I would call JFK fake. Don is definetly fake but i dont really get that for JFK, his womanizing was certainly wrong but he won the election fairly and I just don’t understand how he would be ‘fake’.
Pete isn't "hilariously bad with words", he doesn't think Nixon can win.
@@davidblau1062 Says the guy who responded to a 4 year-old comment.
@@du4lstrik3 hahaha
@@du4lstrik3 Said the guy who would have stood in line 3 hours to see the King Tut exhibit.
@@kennethlatham3133 ? What?
@@du4lstrik3 What what?
🎶Ethel
Go get the icepick
That Nixon guy is on TV again 🎶
Lmfao!!!
Should've never been this close.
a clever nod to Rosemary Kennedy's "icepick" lobotomy
Best thing Kinsey ever wrote.
That made no sense it was complete garbage, Kinsey is a useless person.
What's interesting to me is that Don draws this clear distinction between the favorable "self-made" candidate and the unfavorable "nouveau-riche" candidate. Don is quite literally both. But you see how he WANTS to think of himself and to have people see him by which perspective he privileges over the other. So much interesting character development in this scene.
As far as we know about Don, he was never a "nouveau riche". We see him survive and rise by himself, and even supporting Anna Draper as far as she lived.
There's also a parallel to be made between what Don thinks of Nixon at this point in time vs. his eventual public image and Don's own tendency to become increasingly unmoored as the the 60's move on without guys like him.
@@user-do2ev2hr7h For sure. That's starts to become clear in season 6. Don's increasingly getting more humble, in attitude, but deep down he's ego's still having trouble adapting to that reality.
@@luandesanta250 I don't know that he's getting humble so much as he is being humbled. It would be virtually impossible for him not to become more humble given the weight of circumstances bearing down upon him.
@@user-do2ev2hr7h Yes. Which is why I said "In attitude". No matter the means, he is still getting humbler in any case.
Nixon, as Dick Whitman and Kennedy as Draper. So goes Sterling Coop (Rooster, bye bye birdy).
"Catchy like it gets in your head and gets you to blow your brains out"
Lmaoo only if you knew buddy 😂
Pete was right about everything concerning Kennedy and Nixon. But they didn't listen
Just because he was right did not mean they could do anything about it.
Pete was often right about where the country was going....he was just too much of a prick for anyone to listen lol
@@CharlieBrown20XD6 I know Pete’s intelligence is never mentioned much. He (if allowed to) would have pioneered in a lot of areas in that industry. The African American Market just to mention on. But his awful social skills made him less then tolerable.
RFK should have just showed this during the superbowl
RFK is a privileged silver spoon dipshit. No to political dynasties, no more Kennedy’s, no more Bush’s, no more Clinton’s.
One of the reasons I loved this show. The commentary on their cultural zeitgeist was always spot-on and delivered with the caveat that most everything turned by marketing sleight-of-hand. Their power to shape public attitudes was incalculable as the actual puppet masters pulling the strings, more so than any politicians they helped to elect. In this case of the 1960 election, it was pretty clear. Youth was an easier and more attractive sell than stodgy paternalism.
Once again Don is correct, in politics, positive campaigns are always more effective, negative adverts are a sign of a lack of ideas and only spur apathy.
Pretty muh much how trump won when everyone got labelled as a racist, bigot, homophobic for the filmsiest of reasons
@@HolyRamanRajya TBF, I believe he is all those things, but I agree with you point. Hillary ran a shocking campaign.
@@samdoesvids1339 Yup he is. But not all voters are like him. Hillary's campaign put extreme PC culture in people. And those people equated everyone else as Nazi Hitler.
@@HolyRamanRajya True, running on how bad Trump is isn't a reason to vote for you. Plus, loads of Trump voters voted for Obama, so...they ain't racist.
Trump won a miraculous election using pretty much attack ads all the time.
What’s funny is that Nixon may have been a self made man but his Naval Career was one spent mostly doing administrative duties, and JFK did everything possible to put himself in a combat role and was eventually a hero.
Military service is military service.
@@dajanicki People didn't see it that way back then.
Nixon joined the navy even thought he was a Quaker, his first job in the navy was at home in the states and he requested to go where the action was and there he experienced Japanese bombings.
Nixon requested to serve on SCAT, responsible for supporting logistics for operations on the frontlines. His unit was also bombed daily and it was considered one of the most dangerous jobs despite him married and a Quaker which could easily have gotten him out from doing such a job.
'A hero's. The only guy to get his PT boat run over by a far larger, louder and more cumbersome boat? If you say so...
“Turn it ooooffff!” 😂 😂 😂
"I know she bothers you"
That look on Don's face. I think that's the moment he realizes how much he likes her.
Roger (old money) didn't want to understand Nixon's appeal.
Roger: “He’s a womanizer.”
Don: “That’s not going to hurt him. Women find out about that, it’ll push him over the top.”
I see Nixon, I see myself.... interesting, coming from Don Draper!
True both were men who grew up dirt poor on farms. Both were men who served in combat uniform and then pulled themselves up by boot straps to succeed.
And both great liars
Monkhem
This US had an Indo China policy since FDR. The blame for the American involvement in Vietnam doesn’t rest with one President or individual. Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and LBJ all had blood on their hands as each escalated American involvement further. Nixon came into the war with a different strategy. Nixon vegan drawing down troop levels but increased bombing. While some argue the war was prolonged; however Nixon was able to use the war as leverage to open Sino American relations in return achieving Detente with the Soviets which cleared the way for SALT1 and 2.
Kennedy is not innocent regarding Vietnam but there is plenty of blame to go around. Kennedy was a product of his time and saw the Vietnam conflict as an element of the Cold War rather than seeing it for what it truly was, a Civil War.
See a fake
@aerodog2 what the hell are you talking about blocked immigration? Ted Kennedy's immigration policy exploded the number of immigrants coming into the US, disliking Ted Kennedy for "limiting" immigration is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
" the president is a product, dont forget that!"
How true is that
Everything is a product even your own words.
you want to get a high-ranking position? anywhere? sell yourself? it's how it's always been in our species.
Crazy to think that Nixon was a Quaker.
If you read Nixon's many biographies and take the time to think critically about the whole of his career and the spirit of the times he lived in, there is much to admire about this flawed man. But only if your mind is open.
Nixon was not as bad as the left wing media made him out to be. Nixon did spy on democrats but he and the republicans did not start the spying.
Remember in that era half the democrats were KKK leaning.
Nixon was a crook before he even got into politics
@@bighands69So he didn't actually call an African delegation monkeys when he was on the phone with Reagan?
"Course' the checks have cleared already but.." that line always cracks me up.
"It's catchy like it gets in your head and blows your brains out."
About a Kennedy campaign ad??? LOL
1:11
Just the boys being boys, love it.
I loved that moment too, although i dindt understand the joke
Just guys bein' dudes.
I like how to compensate for the slow start of the characters' story arks early mad men dialogue was more floral and reference-charged
2018 people still arguing that one candidate was pure good and the other utter evil and both candidates are long dead. As a writer it's very comforting that this will never changes and I don't have to be very creative with my narratives.
Hisame Artwork ^^^ smh
Kinda hard to paint Nixon as pure good unless you think Watergate and dirty tricks were in the public interest.
Candidates having good and bad charachteristcs doesn't make them equal. Sometimes, candidates can be utter evil and pure good. To think that all politicians are the same is simply not healthy because you can equate stains with shit.
So, you write space opera, then?
In Nixon's case is justified. He represents the dark side of power for obvious reasons.
It's like the "McNulty get's profiled" scene in The Wire:
Don Draper: When I see Nixon, I see myself.
Me: A deeply insecure man of humble roots who's riven high in a system he both desperately wants to control and also hates, who often also falls for his own self-destructive tendencies? Yeah pretty much Don.
This scene is actually about Don vs Roger, and their very different upbringings. Roger with the silver spoon and handed the business. Don had to fight for everything he has.
Pete was right about quite a lot of things
Campaign ad from 1962: "If you vote for Nixon, you might go to Hell."
Paid by "Lord Satan and his Demons for Nixon".
The election was in '60 you idiot. Nixon didn't run in '64. The trouble is you actually believed the idiocy of "Madmen". It's a T.V. show.
This was the 1960 election. The end of Eisenhower's 2nd term.
0:45 The man never drank a Duff in his life!
Roger actually doing some work.
Pete is Kennedy, Don is Nixon
That's right. The episode title "Nixon vs Kennedy" is obviously about the election, but it's also about the conflict between Don (Nixon) and Pete (Kennedy), which culminates in the excellent "Who cares?" scene with Cooper.
"Messaged recieved...and forgotten."
Who's here after the Super Bowl 😂
"which reminds me you're not watching enough tv".
It's ironic hearing how Sterling thinks Don hates Rachel. When in reality it's shown that she's the only girl he ever truly understood, which is why she is introduced in the pilot, and he can't stop thinking about her seasons later.
I don't know if I would have described Nixon as a war hero. He was by all accounts an efficient and popular Officer. But he was a REMF, yes? Never held a combat command!
Being in the rear area didn't spare Nixon or Kennedy bombing raids. I hate when millennials or GenXers write of Nixon, they don't know what they are talking about. Nixon was a lawyer and he made the agreements with the locals to supply the Navy ships with fresh vegetables. It kept the sailors from getting scurvy. Nixon's relationships with the local tribes was legendary. Nixon organized giant poker games when the Navy command would move island to island on transport ships. You had to have $5,000 cash to get in the game, there was a waiting list, and every Navy officer wanted in the game. After the war was done Nixon terminated millions of dollars in Naval aircraft contracts. The USAAF was getting new P-47s and P-63s to fly to the scrapyard. The US Navy's contracts terminated the day the war was ended. BTW, Nixon was JAG in the Navy & he was well respected as a lawyer, best in the Pacific. Last, Draper does not strike me as a former combat officer. He's too slick, too refined, and does not look like he has ever lived like an animal.
@@Easy-Eight Oh come on. He was a clever guy, of course he was in the fucking rear.
I really liked that quote - it's like it can be applied to any situation - like doing things you have absolutely have no desire to do!
The writing on this show is so stellar that they had Don take Nixon's side and made it sound believable.
Don has no real political affiluation and has stated he doesnt vote though he is anti war
Pete is old money New England democrat, the type who would vote for Hillary in a second.
Roger is conservative though pretty lax when it comes to social issues...maybe libertarian by todays standards.
Bert would probably be what is considered anarcho capitalist nowadays. He loves his Ayn Rand.
Pete was more Rockerfeller Republican. Who do you think is funding this Sterling Cooper anti-Kennedy campaign? Remember they were doing this work on free, not charging because it was about building up their brand in those WASP elite clubs that didn't want Nixon in. Those Rockerfeller types might be progressive a bit on social issues like more compassionate on race (if anything to show how virtous they were- like Pete when gets all pious attacking everyone in the office when MLK is shot). But they were certainly conservative on economics and won't have liked Kennedy coming in with big spending social programs that might raise their taxes.
@@nobad6134 they were working for the Nixon campaign not against him...
In 50s and 60s New England voted Republican. It was liberal but Republican. Heck, Coolidge was from New England!
There were conservatist Democrats too those days. Now it's more aligned and polarized.
@@trad13 Made a mistake. I later mentioned- 'won't have liked Kennedy coming in with big spending social programs that might raise their taxes.' Meant to say anti-Kennedy not anti-Nixon at the top.
@@nobad6134 Actually Kennedy has decreased taxes. It's Johnson who's invented second coming of New Deal. Which is paradox, becausse Johnson was perceived as a conservative, he was to balance progressivim of Kennedy.
Don's voice describing the politicians is chocolate in my ears.
but Kennedy got his brains blown out. thats kind of the point bubblin was making. imagine they were saying it about martin luther king. see.
The other way to is to print more money and inflate the currency. However, there is a third way...
Burrow debt.
they could sell lotto tickets...
>Kennedy Ad
>Nothing but bold promises that literally any politican can make
>Nixon ad
>Misses the point of being an ad entirely but at the very least Nixon tries to grab your attention from an economic point of view
It makes sense why Donald and co. voted for Nixon since Nixon is in the market to save you as much money from Tax Cuts and since Don and company are in the business of making money off course that appeals to their needs
I don't think you understand the psychological significance of propaganda
A lot of people say this is why Nixon lost. First really televised presidential election, and JFK looked like a rock star.
@@SunGawdRa and it's also why lincoln and trump won
Kennedy cut taxes substantially. They liked Nixon because he was Eisenhower’s VP and Eisenhower was one of the best Republicans in history.
Kennedy actually cut taxes substantially, and women found out he was a womanizer so it pushed him over the top
I was going to comment, but then I read the comments.
Btw, that's "Flo" talking to Peggy.
18 billion dollars is like a sneeze nowadays.
It’s $155 billion adjusted for inflation.
He said it was in the key of E but he sang it in F. Very close though good job on him
He was in the princeton tigertones, ofcourse he's good :)
Interesting thing about the Kennedy / Nixon debate. If you heard it on the radio people thought that Nixon won it.
If you saw it on television people said that Kennedy won it.
Who do you think could have been a closet Kennedy supporter in Sterling Cooper at this time? Sal maybe due to Catholic heritage? Paul Kinsey? (Though Paul was a cultural liberal at that point it wasn't like the Democrats were associated with cultural and social liberalism, but his youth and seeming lack of relative family wealth may have made him a potential Kennedy voter)
Pete and Ken were both young, but seems like the type of old money east coast republicans which still ruled the GOP then.
To answer your "who? question: Everyone under the age of 27.
I'm referring to the people in that room though. I think chances are Paul, and Sal at most. I can't see Pete or Ken being Democrats at that stage.
Democrats at the time had lots of KKK in their ranks. Over half the democrat senators voted against the civil rights act.
By the way there is no such thing as social liberalism it is a made up term that makes no sense.
@@HansenDing Pete was born and raised in NYC, raised as a Rep. but we saw how he did not get along with his parents well at all. Ken was dyed-in-the-wool New Englander (VT) as was Kennedy. Each of them had significant reasons to support Kennedy, particularly against Californian Richard Nixon.
Nixon was a great president.
History has been kinder to Nixon. Historians born after Watergate have been more objective. The same with President Truman
Nixon and JFK were good friends! Nixon used to visit the Kennedy compound.
What does that have to do with anything. They were still running against each other for president.
You know who else was friendly back in the day? Trump & the Clintons.
@@flyboy152 A lot considering...learn.
It’s interesting to see the evolution of political advertising. In the 60’s they could get away with just a catchy jingle, but now advertising is focused on policy (like Nixon’s). It’s all “Medicare for all” or “build the wall.” Americans have become much more interested in public policy.
*vomits*
The President is a product. Don't forget that. - Pete Campbell
Yeah, Pete. We're beginning to get the idea.
Don saying he sees himself in Nixon is hilariously revealing
lmao and then nixon took us off the gold standard
@@WhaddupDoc and now we are neck deep in shit with fiat currency
@@WhaddupDoc or you could have stopped wasting money in Vietnam lmao. But yanks can't exist without bombing poor foreigners I guess
@@WhaddupDoc yeah i know the history. However us getting of the gold standard has lead us today, with our money having been inflated to high hell and everything from steel to the stock market being inflated. What must goes up must come down.
@@WhaddupDoc so how do you feel about the current narrative of how over 1/5th of all dollars printed have been printed in the last year. Is it not as bad as it is made out to be? It sounds pretty bad to me, but I don't know shit about fuck
"Nixon -- the Abe Lincoln of California" LOL
"I agree...let's go down swinging!" Another great Campbell pep talk! Roger's expression is funny!
In what other job does your boss tell you seriously that you’re not watching enough tv?
All I saw was ni thought this was gonna be totally different subject 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Roger made a very good point.
This scene and the plot to help Nixon's campaign always cracked me up. John Slattery in real life is a die hard Democrat, was interesting seeing him play these scenes out, he did admirably.
Huge Mad men fan, but sorry I don't get the joke. Must be because I'm not American or alive in the sixties, but what should Ethel Kennedy do with an icepick?
I don't think it's Ethel Kennedy, just "Ethel" as a generic name for a wife - and the ice pick is to drive into the head or TV. Sort of like saying "If I have to hear this song one more time, I'll blow my brains out."
Lallin92 it’s a reference to icepick lobotomies that were used as treatments for mental disorders like depression or mania. They’re essentially saying that seeing Nixon makes them go crazy.
Kennedy snr had his daughter lobotomised. They literally scooped her brains out with an ice pick.
@@tristanv.9380 Huh, your description reminded me that Jon Hamm's character lobotomizes Babydoll with the ice pick in "Sucker Punch"
feel like there’s an interesting reading into this with McCain and Obama. although I don’t know how early into 2007 this whole episode was written. but it does seem a bit of a reflection of conservative America using things like affirmative-action as an excuse similar to buying their way into prestigious universities. I haven’t really thought this through but it’s an interesting idea to explore on your own
In NYC today, I never assume anything about a person’s gender identity. Like, the voice gives clues to a gay man, but not always. It’s often very subtle. I’ve met butch lesbians and I’ve met lesbians who loved trying on magnificent couture dresses as a hobby but who were definetly not into men. It’s just so hard to tell in this city now and that fact is what makes it so great. 😊
That's disgusting.
And stop saying 'gender identity' you sound like a demented leftist.
no one asked about your deranged lifestyle, libtard.
Nixon was BASED. Nuff said.
Not smart to bring up how Richard Nixon made his money. The Kennedy team would have looked into it and then proceeded to win in a landslide.
He did not make it playing poker
Bootlegging?
You run a positive ad because your challenge isn't to win new converts; The challenge is to get people that agree with you already to GO TO THE POLLS. If voter turnout is less than 50% then you don't need to change minds you need to motivate minds.
"ride bareback over Paul"
... Excuse me? 🧐
"Blow your head off" wink wink
"Nixon. I see myself..."
So, a liar?
" lets move to paying clients" what does he mean by that. that the potential nixon campaign ad was a public obligation or something?
Yes, everyone with power in the company, in this season, was pretty much in line with everything that nixon stood for and if nixon had won it would be good for the company as whole, if i remenber correctly.
What he means is that they were doing that campaign to try to impress another client. They were doing it for free. The other clients were “paying clients” meaning they are actually giving money for the work they are doing.
A lot of Kennedy voters were superficial and kidding themselves. Camelot was illusory.
"A lot of Kennedy voters were superficial and kidding themselves. Camelot was illusory."
Apparently you weren't around then. Camelot was a creation of the press. Most people didn't give a shit.
carver3419 Kennedy certainly got a free pass from the MSM, not just for his peccadilloes but also his (lack of) intellectual depth.
"Kennedy certainly got a free pass from the MSM, not just for his peccadilloes but also his (lack of) intellectual depth"
Are you talking about JFK? Lack of intellectual depth ... As compared to Nixon? Give me a fuckin' break.
That Nixon song is in the key of D. Another reason why Kinsey sucks.
1:59
lmao you can see that Don describing Kennedy as a silver spoon is hurting Peter at 2:03
I wish my boos would tell me to watch more TV
That olde army navy rivalry
This when the writers told us inconclusively that Don was a Conservative Republican. His boss Bert Cooper was a Goldwater Republican as evidenced by his Ayn Rand philosophies. I wonder which political leanings Roger Sterling possessed
I don't think Don is a conservative Republican. Throughout the show, to the extent he shows any political feelings on anything, he has anti-war sentiment. In one episode, I think set around 1968, he flatly states he's opposed to the war in Vietnam. His anti-war feelings are real and obviously derive from his personal experience. He reacts with revulsion to his father-in-law's use of a WWI German helmet as a collectible, and he is also horrified, on a trip to California, when Pete is trying to land a nuclear weapons manufacturer as a client (if I recall correctly). He is also generally pro-civil rights. Neither of these things was a popular position with conservative Republicans, especially at that time. None of this is the same thing as saying that Don has the courage of his convictions, or that he intends to act on any of his political feelings. At bottom, Don is selfish and a coward, though he does have attacks of the conscience.
In this scene, Don is not talking about issues. He is talking purely from the viewpoint of the vacuous advertising world, which he knows so well: He thinks Nixon should sell himself as someone people can identify with.
Roger is a conservative, as you'd expect from a patrician of his class. There's a scene where he admonishes Joan for crying after Marilyn Monroe's death, saying that there are more significant figures for whom mourning was justified, like Roosevelt: "I hated him," Roger says, "but you felt like you knew him."
Cooper is an Ayn Rand worshiper and also a racist (the two usually go together, of course).
We get the impression throughout the show that Pete is a liberal, but he is also so ferociously self-centered that it is not quite clear if his occasional political outbursts -- against Harry Crane in the wake of King's assassination, for instance -- are genuine or merely a posture of some sort.
SteveNelsonBrigade I don't think Roger is conservative, at least not at the end of the show, since he embrace the counter culture pretty well with the LSD experience
In real life people are more complex than a label, I think that's what this show really brings out. People are walking paradoxes, full of contradictions. My father is a life-long Democrat, but he's conservative on a lot of issues. He may vote blue at the national level but in state/local races it's really about who's talking his language. He's a far richer man than he was during his militant college years and his views on certain issues have changed as a result. I know him better than most and it's hard to classify him. That's humanity.
There were liberal Republicans, and conservative Democrats in 1960. Although Don wasn't very vocal about it, you see his views on African Americans throughout the show, talking to the black waiter in the first episode, how he treated his housekeeper, to hiring Dawn as his secretary. At that time, Republicans took pride in Lincoln freeing the slaves. This was before Johnson's Civil Rights Act. And before Nixon's Southern strategy. Most people like Roger Sterling hated Democrats because FDR created the 90% tax on the rich during WWII. That rate stayed the same until Kennedy dropped it to about 71% when he was elected. Yes, Burt was Tea Party before it had a name.
I think that's exactly right. Don doesn't seem super politically engaged, especially outside the first season, but he definitely seems to be a slightly liberal republican, which was a thing back in the 60's.
whats the other way they will pay for it damn it!
After the Markey win , ouch
Doesn't nouveau riche count as being self made? I mean the first Kennedy to arrive in America in the 1800s was a barrel maker, then his kids made money.
And then somewhere down the line, the Kennedys became a political fixture in Boston and one Joe Sr., whose fortune was built on bootlegging and the like, established his national bona fides bouncing around FDR’s administration. Joe then parlayed his influence in trying to make his family a national political dynasty. John Kennedy’s marble column of a jumping off point was miles higher than Nixon’s.
Recent immigrant? Hilarious how yanks consider themselves members of some other country. I’ve got an Irish Grandmother and Scottish Grandfather, but I was born to English parents in London. I’ve never considered myself as anything other than English. Why can’t Americans just say they are Americans?
this is weird watching in the context of nov. 2020
oh no, where are we gonna get, 18 billion dollars …. =\
the current debate in congress is about spending 200 times that amount … EXTRA spending!
Almost as if inflation and economic growth are things...
:38...anyone else think "Frankie Goes To Hollywood"?
For sure.
If isnt old tricky dicky
Must be 1959
I just got the “blown your brains out” comment. Lol
Kennedy was far better for national morale, though some find it frightening when every hard-working American is suddenly invigorated with a sense of optimism.
What would would have happen in Nixon won in 60 how does history change
00:27 that comment didn’t age well.
Idea for Nixon campaign slogan: I am not a crook.