My dad bought a brand new one in 1997. STICK SHIFT. If you get a stick one, man, you'd fall around the first block. A truly remarkable car. A Pininfarina masterpiece.
The design of the 164 is indeed a Pininfarina masterpiece! It still looks completely modern. Gearbox: I have local friends who have 164s with the manual.. fun to drive, but my wife asked for the automatic. And I can't complain at all - since driving it, the ZF automatic seems perfect to me. You can put it in 'Sport' mode for a perfect extra kick. The automatic seems natural in a lovely big comfortable 'Executive' sedan like the 164LS. I have a manual in our sporty GTV6 track car, so the 164 is my 'big' Alfa. Cheers!
Yes, I noticed that Classic & Sportscar Magazine voted the Busso V6 the 2nd-best sounding vintage engine in automotive history. The Maserati V8 was voted first.
Alfa Romeo was always a great innovative brand. Throught the years they invented many things commonly found in modern vehicles, such as all 4 disc brakes, dual overhead camshaft, variable valve timing and so on... My parents used to have Alfa Romeo 75 2.4 TD when I was a child. They sold it 13 years ago I believe and to this day I still miss it. Hopefully one day I'll have enought money to search for one in great condition and own it myself, a 3.0 V6 would be amazing! Anyways, thank you for this video. The way you filmed it is absolute perfection, a silent drive with text inserts and a calm italian music while showing the interior and exterior. It surely reminded me why I love this brand so much. I hope you keep your 164 as long as you can and enjoy every single bit of it. Cheers.
Yeah, that would be incredible. The Alfa 164 has enough support that parts are still available - I had new McPherson struts put in right after I bought it, plus new bushings, and a new exhaust.. so it drives like a very 'fresh' car. Cheers!
Yes! Thanks for the comment - I know other 164 owners who are repeat buyers, and several who own multiple 164s.. It's a much-loved platform for those who like sedans.!
I love this car: my grandfather had the Alfa 90, then the 164 (2.0 TS) and then the 166. I still drive his 166 (2.4JTD 5cyl Diesel), it has more than 200K kilometers and I still love all the features it has, the comfort and the driving dynamics. One time in your life you should drive that car on italian mountain roads, You'll love it even more. Congrats for your beautiful 164.
Grazie aox8! I would love to ship our Maserati Bora over to vacation in Europe. I do keep imagining the right group of friends willing to make that trip. ..(or buy cars in Europe to drive, then sell again at the end). The most ambitious plan would be to ship the cars into the port of Athens, drive up to Ioannina, down to Corfu, ferry across to Brindisi, across to Naples, Rome, find the Pagini Collection, continue north via Urbino, then to Modena followed by Genoa before dashing north through Switzerland or Austria, drive the Romantische Strasse in Germany, up across Denmark, over to the coast of Norway to Narvik, turn east and come back down thru Sweden and ship our cars home from Gothenburg.. Some day! :-)
Thank you for your very kind compliment, Phillip. It's an inspiration to do my best to equal this level of quality in my future clips. Learning as I go, it is very valuable to learn what viewers enjoy. Thanks again. - Art
Congratulations, great pictures, magic car, perfect music. Plus: most of the others cars' marques end their lives at the junkyards, the Alfas get a second life through passionate
Grazie Signore, It was a very satisfying car to own., even with the ZF automatic transmission. Foremost it was a very comfortable, stable, highway cruiser. In "Sport" mode, I could get the rpms up for the engine to make its lovely Busso sounds..
Iede Velde Thank you for the comment, It’s my 3rd Alfa as well.. and I enjoy the way it drives very much, even with the automatic... (first was a 1976 2.0L Alfetta Berlina way back in 1988, and in 2013 we bought a 1982 GTV6 Balocco SE that we still own). Cheers!
Thank you for that fine video. Nothing drives like an Alfa for me. I never got to drive a 164, but I have owned three, Alfa's A 1971 Berlina and two 1987 Milano's . All were a lot of fun to drive!
Thank you for your comment. So you have owned classic Alfa sedans? That must have been a lot of fun! My first Alfa was a '76 Alfetta Berlina with a 2.0L Spica and 5-speed. In fact, that was my first manual shift car ever. A fabulous machine, until it rusted away.... I had never driven a 164 either, until I made friends a few years ago with a local 'Alfisti' who loves the 164. He has a 1994 S with the 24v engine and a 5-speed manual, which he let me test drive.. it was a very strong performer! Since my wife asked for an automatic, this friend advised I find an LS because they are easier to find with the ZF automatic. The LS also doesn't have the sporty body kit, but has the same strong 24v DOHC engine.. Thanks again.
On the quiet the 164 is one of the finest cars Alfa ever made. Two of mine were the 2 litre Twin Spark, and they were really different to the V6 (I had one of those as well) You could throw the 2 litre around more and it was not slow with a top speed of nearly 130. Too many people who have never driven one are put off by the idea of FWD. In my book it just gave you more confidence in the car.
Thanks for the comments, Tim. I'm in the US and the 4cyl version was never offered here. I agree the FWD is very well sorted. Some drivers who are used to 25-years-more-modern FWD platforms still detect torque steer, but I love driving it. Roomy, quiet and comfortable. I've completed a bunch more work on the 164 and it is such a nice car... I have abandoned the plan to make it a daily driver. I just can't get myself to drive it through our harsh and salty winters, even though it is galvanized. I looked for an equivalent modern platform and after checking the Mazda 6, bought a Volkswagen CC as a reasonably comparable car. Cheers!
In my experience you could go in to a corner at almost any speed and left foot brake in to the apex with your right foot placed firmly on the floor and just lift off the brakes and go round. Easily the most fun I have ever had in a big saloon
Hey Arther, a little mistakes, the 164 was introduced in 1988 out of Italy, but alreàdy in 1987 in Italy, the manufacturer thought the car was too important to take eventually "young child disseases to important foreign markets. I was selling Alfas in 88' in Germany, and as the summer holidays passed and all german tourists returned from Italy, there was a never seen wafe of visits and interess for Alfa dealers. As the tourists saw the 164 running on Italian highways or cities. A great car, and as you drive an automatic geared one, I wonder why you don't mention the kuck-down and power of the Busso V6, but you have a Lusso, which has already much more improved front axle geometry etc. If you can test an Automatic 1 st series, meaning models before autumn 89', those were like Mustangs(the horse, not the car), it's kick down and power were too nuch for the front agle, but it was hell of fun. I helped myself and customers of 1st series, mounting 3cm shorter feathers in front and lower the dampers in the rear, this costed then ca. 350,- bucks, but it helps so much to bring the power of the V6 without dancing of the stearing-column, on the street.
Ciao Nino - Grazie for the details about the beginnings of the 164 in Europe! Yes, especially the Sport mode of the ZF automatic gets a lot more power and "spirit" from the Busso V6... the steering dynamic you describe is what I believe we call "torque steer", and I don't think I felt much of that from our LS, but that is probably my own fault - for not pressing he gas pedal HARD enough, LOL!! Thank you for your comments, and may you and all your family have a very Happy New Year! - Art
I have a euro spec 96 model Super with the same engine with the ZF auto. Both maroon exterior and interior leather. Exceptional cars and like you said exceptional enthusiast community. Enjoyed the video especially the sound of the engine. Greetings from Sri Lanka
Primarily it was for the 3.0 24v engine which was standard in the '94 LS.. and the LS gave the best package of standard features; power windows, heated seats, power sunroof, leather interior, three drive modes (Normal, Ice, Sport), etc..
And yes, there is more. Drive a 164 for a week, and then I'd be able to understand what Jeremy Clarkson means when he says "you are not a real car enthusiast until you own an Alfa".
Hey rex! That must be a blast to drive.. I have an '82 GTV6 w the standard 2.5, and I take it to local track days.. It gets lots of positive comments from other drivers and staff for its sound... Yes, I also have a weak 1-2 synchro! You can find some videos I've made of it... I bought a 3.0L from a Milano Verde to maybe put in it one day... Fun indeed!
Forza ragazzi! I think you are few but very motivated! I remember in the 80s when Alfa Romeo organized a small convoy of mechanics and spare parts to carry out maintenance on the few Alfisti of the USSR
I had the 1993 12V 3.0L manual version. It pulls fantastic. Unfortunately this car needs plenty of TLC. Need to run it hard otherwise it starts to get sick.
This one was still great as a highway cruiser with the ZF automatic. Very little wind noise and so stable.. I think the 24v just loved running at high rpms. But, yes it definitely needed to be driven regularly, which I gladly did! Cheers!
This video always brings me memories when I was in such a hype to get a 164...unfortunately it hasn't happened yet, too many personal problems to solve and the lack of a job doesn't help either...but I saw the ad for a '95 example a few days ago...Super 24v [I'm in Brazil, so EUR spec], maroon [Rosso Proteo, actually] with black interior, 5-speed manual...and less than 35k miles on it. Unfortunately it's way out of my reach, as the owner's asking nearly $13k. But goddamn, such a BEAUTIFUL car... One day...one day! :D Anyway, it was a very pleasant video to watch, thanks for sharing. ^^ Greetings from Brazil! \o_
Thanks for your comment, Razyr! That 164 sounds great - very low km's too! The 164 has a small but strong following of enthusiasts here in the US, even though not many people know them.. I like mine a lot, but there are always little things going wrong with it. This week the electric trunk and gas lid releases stopped working.. and I think the power steering is starting to leak (for the third time).. But I love it's style and it drives really nicely for an automatic. Cheers!
Thanks! Here's a link to the ad. Way$ available, she'd be in my garage already! :D www.webmotors.com.br/comprar/alfa-romeo/164/3-0-super-v6-24v-gasolina-4p-manual/4-portas/1995/23193950?idcmpint=t1:c17:m07:webmotors:clique_card_resultado_busca::anuncio-normal-pos-8& A few issues here and there are somewhat expected of a 20+ year old car, and even ends up as part of its character sometimes, heheh. Hell, even our '06 Chevrolet Corsa has some of them every now and then. Fortunately nothing really serious. And it's good to know the 164 has a loyal cult in the US. But regarding parts availability, you guys also need to order and ship from Europe or are there any good North American suppliers still (or already) making them for the examples still around? Getting parts from the US is a lot less expensive and complicated than Europoe and sometimes makes a huge difference in maintaining certain models here.
I don't think they let you loose with the manual gearbox in the states. It changes the car completely. My UK model 94 Super was the same colour as yours and I virtually gave it away in 2006 (stupid me!) , and I think the buyer broke it up for the engine as I can't find an MOT (roadworthiness test) record on line after I sold it (in excellent condition I might add), so he must have pulled it apart PDQ.
Most 164’s in the US are manual shift. My wife asked me for the automatic. As a family sedan it performed very comfortably with the ZF and the Sport mode gave some extra rpm to the shift points. I have driven a friend’s manual LS, with the same S intake runner and Squadra chip upgrades. Yes, it becomes a very different experience.
Hello Hugo - I would recommend getting whichever is in the best condition. But if they are equal, I would decide on the driving style you want. The ‘94 ZF automatic is 4-speed and has Sport mode, which adds some fun to the LS as good long distance comfortable cruising car. But if you really like a more sporty driving experience, then a manual 5-speed is the best choice. I think the ‘91 Quadrofoglio will hold its value better. Let me know what you think, or what you decide! Cheers!
So I’m the steering whine, I couldn’t hear it. Did it do it at parking lot speeds? Was it silent with the new rack? The 164 I picked up is noisier than I think it should be. Impending rack problem? I can’t find any leaks to the ground, but the fluid was down or below the minimum line when I got it. I filled it up and it hasn’t moved. Thanks.
First - I think you are OK if there is no loss of power steering fluid since you filled the reservoir, and there are no drips under the car. You can see the puddle of fluid on the floor of my garage at the beginning. Right at the 7:23 mark, you can hear a steering 'whine' that is different from the 'whirr' of the ZF automatic.. that is the sound of air in the power steering compressor, indicating a low fluid level has le air in, and possibly a leak. If your power steering level was low enough to have allowed air into the system, the system will bleed the air out automatically after you filled your reservoir. You bleed the air out by starting the car, and slowly turning the steering wheel full left and full right, and don't push the steering wheel hard when you get to the steering limits. Sometimes a steering rack leak can be contained inside the rubber steering bellows, but that will only hold the fluid in until it is full. If you have a leak, it will find a way to drip. Any more questions, just ask. Cheers!
Good morning Hernan, hello to you in Chile, and greetings from me in New York! I don’t remember how much fuel it used, miles per gallon, but it wasn’t terrible. If I had to guess, I would say between 14 and 16mpg in the city, and 24 to 27mpg on the highway. There is a very good group of helpful enthusiasts on www.AlfaBB.com. Cheers!
I always like Alfas (especially from the late 60's till 90's), but my favorite Alfa it will always be the gtv6 (my father had one). I'm sure I would have a hard decision If I had to choose between the Milano and 164. First 164 with an automatic I see in a video
Thanks Jorge - I would have liked a manual transmission in this 164, but my wife asked me very kindly to get an automatic so she could drive it too... I have not been disappointed by the ZF, and it is nice to drive, in Sport mode. Luckily we also drive a GTV6, so I am not missing out on pure Alfa Romeo fun! Cheers!
Arthur Harvey Oh really, do you have a gtv6? It's a great car! I'm sure you had your reasons to get the 164 with an automatic. Oh the Busso V6 singing at high Rpm it's music to my ears. Keep those Alfas running, they are great cars. Greetings from El Salvador!
Альфа Ромео это жизнь где есть начало и вечный оргазм! Это не машина это божественная техника уникальная своею динамикой резвестью !!! Альфа Ромео это самое лучшее что могли придумать Итальянцы!!!
Ciao, Biagio. If you need technical information and help with the automatic transmission, I recommend you seek assistance from the Alfa Romeo Owner’s Club in your country, or a local mechanic. The ZF transmission used in the Alfa 164 was also used in the Saab 9000. You can find help from a Saab mechanic. Cheers, Art
Ciao, Arturo.. I purchased my rebuilt rack from RockAuto.com.. but it failed quickly, and I had to send it back. Then I bought one from Alfissimo.com, and it also failed. The third rack has been OK, I still have some whiny noises.. also replaced the fluid reservoir and the pump. Serious Caution: the system is extremely sensitive to dirt or debris and this can destroy the oil seals very quickly.. I do think that’s why the first one failed. Maybe the second one too.
Arturo Cordero - One more note: Are you sure the leak is coming from the rack? Check hoses and connections to be sure because those are easier to replace than the rack. Also go visit www.AlfaBB.com and find the forum for 164. Search there for ‘Steering Rack’. I posted a full description of how to change the steering rack, pulling it out the passenger side without dropping the engine subframe. My 164 is very clean underneath, so all the nuts and bolts were easy to get apart. Good luck!
Arturo Cordero The 3rd rack I also got from Alfissimo International, as a warranty replacement for the failed 2nd rack. That was nice of them to honor. From my perspective, I think the failure was from debris in the fluid, not necessarily the rack. My last repair included the pump, and reservoir with integral filter.
Hi Gi, thanks for asking. Being over 25 years old, it needed more maintenance than a newer car, but if you are mechanically minded it responds well to repairs. Parts and technical expertise are available on the major Alfa Romeo forums. That being said, mine had enough miles on it that problems occurred regularly, so it wasn’t really reliable enough to be a daily driver. Power Steering rack replaced. Thermostat replaced. Some fuel injection hose leaks. Transmission TPS had an intermittent failure. Sunroof mechanism failed. ...It’s smart to buy the best one you can find.
Haha.. the front lights are correct... for America! We never got projector lights on our 164's, but we can buy them now from Europe and convert the electrical feed.
.. the low increase in wind noise I’m referring is not from 40mph to 75mph. The low increase spans speeds of 80mph to 120mph. Maybe that’s not your highway speed. Legend. Cheers.
Davide B. Grazie. Oh, no worries. He did, of course. My wife asked for it to be automatic. After driving it for some time she said “It’s nice to drive. I think it’s time I learned to drive a manual.. can you change out the automatic?” So it’s now sold to an Alfisto near Rochester, NY and we’ll find her something manual to drive. PS - You are correct, and Alfista is the feminine. Alfisto is the masculine.
@@65SATisfaction Oh ok, well done Ehm.. i know it may sound counter intuitive but "Alfista" works as both masculine and feminine, so "Alfisto" does not exist. It's either Alfista or Alfisti. The Italian language is plenty of exceptions, and this is one ;) Cheers from Venice Italy.
Davide B. Buona sera, Davide! I did not know such exceptions existed! Ho studato archittectura a Roma per sei mesi nel 1985.. ma il miei Italiano has unfortunately become molto rusty.! I have promised myself to learn it again. Mi dispiace I never visited Venice. Ho inhabito Roma, e visitato Napoli, Capri, Firenze, Bologna, Ravenna, Rimini e Urbino, tutti erano molto belle... Ciao!
@@65SATisfaction A-haaaa...!! Buonasera a te!! E' bello sapere che hai conosciuto il mio Paese!! E hai visto molte città! Sono sicuro che un giorno avrai un' opportunità di visitare anche Venezia.. And considered that almost 40 years have passed since you left, your Italian isn't bad at all! Was it here in Italy where you got contaminated by the Alfa thing? Here the 164 had had a huge success but i thought it had been close to a flop in the US, as it had been for the Alfa 75. You can't imagine how exciting and unusual it is to me to see an Alfa 164 riding on Us roads squeaking the tyres, and all through a cockpit view!! So damn cool,..! It was so lucky to find such a rare video!! The car has aged better than me, there's no doubt about that..:) I've just turned 49... Thank you Arthur!!
Arthur - You made a huge mistake by going with an auto... Alfa needs a manual to get real power. The 5 speed Cloverleaf would be the one to go with. Red/back exterior
iamanoobiecheez , “..a huge mistake”? .. Not at all. I get where you’re coming from, but your claim is based on an assumption that I want sportiness. Maybe that’s what I’m projecting in this video, but no, that wasn’t why I bought it. Not at all. Sportiness is what my other cars and GTV6 are for (...and they sound a hell of a lot better than the 164). With this LS, I sought out and bought precisely what I wanted. So, let’s instead ask why someone would choose the ZF. And here is my answer: This is driven by both my wife and I with our 3 kids on board. As such it serves as a roomy executive sedan, not a row-through-the-gears sports sedan. It’s capable of that, yes. As are most all Alfa’s, but this is a “big car”. So the ZF totally suits the driving style this car is intended for. We sought the Champagne color and avoided the S’s sporty body panels, because it gives our LS the anonymity we want, to reduce attention by law enforcement when cracking triple digits on the interstate. The ZF is geared perfectly for the engine to sit right at its 4000 power band, purring along at 100-110. The last minutes of this clip show what that is like. You hardly notice it, but that’s 100mph right there. Thanks for the comment tho! It just doesn’t apply to us. Cheers.
I'm in South Africa ... I've got a early 164 12v manual, a 164 QV, a GTV6 and a 147 3.2 GTA ... I'm getting pretty tired of stick shifts 😂😂😂 ... I'm looking for a 164 auto, meanwhile I'll have to make do with the 147 2.0 selespeed (manu-matic) for town driving ... Oh yeah, and like the US, we also have long distances between towns and I tend to sit at around 180kph where conditions allow (about 110mph)
Getriebegeräusche sind nicht NORMAL und Du wirst demnächst , womöglich auf der autobahn bei Vollgas das Getriebe verlieren . Ein 2.0ts hatte Getriebe GERÄUSCHE - manuelle Schaltung - Es hatte das GLEICHE GERÄUSCH , wie Dein Automatikgetriebe . Das 4-Gang automatik in meinem 156 macht keinerlei GERÄUSCHE, das solltest Du bedenken . Ich tendiere zum 6-Gang Getriebe , weil es am leichtesten zu wechseln ist , im Gegensatz zum 4-Gang automatikgetriebe . Aber Ich bin ehrlich , das 4-Gang Getriebe gefällt mir im ALfa ebenso , wie das 6-Gang . Hauptsache V6 ;-)
Grazie, amico mio. Glad you enjoyed the car. The choice of music was very deliberate. You would have to know Italian culture in order to understand it.
who the f would buy a so non-torque engine coupled with ..veeery sluggish Automatic gearbox?! It's a blasphemy for alfa. A woman only could buy that configuration.. or a slave of that woman😂 A golf tdi is some spaceship as acceleration when compared against that ..automatic v6😂😂
Exceptional car, very modern for it's time, immensely comfortable and a wonderful companion. How do I know? ;) The past 100,000km with one... Alfa Romeo spent years and a huge budget on this project, no other model before or since has been more thoroughly developed and / or tested. Only consistent failure on these cars are the A/C stepper motors which happen to be German. Other things mostly work just fine after 20-some years. My windows are slow, but that is forgivable given the mileage and years... I've seen 164's with over 400,000km on the odo. Thanks for the video, kudos and Best Wishes!
Thank you Ma Che Cazz - I remember about reading the large investment Alfa Romeo made in developing the 164.. CAD design and computer simulated assembly.. I love its handing, it's not necessarily sporty, but firm and confident, just perfect for a cruising sedan. My example is very clean and rust-free (thanks to being galvanized).. It makes it easier to work on for me. .Yes about the AC stepper motors..! I have replaced my window up/down mechanisms, the plastic gears break their teeth. Cheers!
Arthur Harvey When I first got it the auto A/C functions and all still worked, and BTW it was Ice cold! They had the brains to put a reliable Japanese 'Sanden' compressor in there. These assemblies are actually 'Bosch' parts, almost identical to the E30 BMW equipment. There is a permanent fix if you redo the motors with Bronze gears but problem is getting these or having them made ($$) and then 2 days of very delicate and careful work pulling out the dash to reach them. Doable, I know a few who done it... Just requires space and time I can't spare atm... Mine is a manual.
My dad bought a brand new one in 1997. STICK SHIFT. If you get a stick one, man, you'd fall around the first block. A truly remarkable car. A Pininfarina masterpiece.
The design of the 164 is indeed a Pininfarina masterpiece! It still looks completely modern.
Gearbox: I have local friends who have 164s with the manual.. fun to drive, but my wife asked for the automatic. And I can't complain at all - since driving it, the ZF automatic seems perfect to me. You can put it in 'Sport' mode for a perfect extra kick. The automatic seems natural in a lovely big comfortable 'Executive' sedan like the 164LS. I have a manual in our sporty GTV6 track car, so the 164 is my 'big' Alfa. Cheers!
Must mention that the Busso V6 was awarded the best symphony for a V6 in its era
Yes, I noticed that Classic & Sportscar Magazine voted the Busso V6 the 2nd-best sounding vintage engine in automotive history. The Maserati V8 was voted first.
Alfa Romeo was always a great innovative brand. Throught the years they invented many things commonly found in modern vehicles, such as all 4 disc brakes, dual overhead camshaft, variable valve timing and so on...
My parents used to have Alfa Romeo 75 2.4 TD when I was a child. They sold it 13 years ago I believe and to this day I still miss it. Hopefully one day I'll have enought money to search for one in great condition and own it myself, a 3.0 V6 would be amazing!
Anyways, thank you for this video. The way you filmed it is absolute perfection, a silent drive with text inserts and a calm italian music while showing the interior and exterior. It surely reminded me why I love this brand so much. I hope you keep your 164 as long as you can and enjoy every single bit of it. Cheers.
i thought mercedes had the earliest 4 disk brakes ,in 62
I used to drive it keeping rpm at 4k just to listen its world - winning awards sound
Masterpiece of a car. Would have loved the oportunity to buy one new and keep it perfect.
Yeah, that would be incredible. The Alfa 164 has enough support that parts are still available - I had new McPherson struts put in right after I bought it, plus new bushings, and a new exhaust.. so it drives like a very 'fresh' car. Cheers!
Que recuerdos....Fue mi primer auto...
Thanks for bringing back these memories
Had a 164 same color same spec for 10 years. Only recently sold it. Great car! Now have a later model in black. Most people buy another one!
Yes! Thanks for the comment - I know other 164 owners who are repeat buyers, and several who own multiple 164s.. It's a much-loved platform for those who like sedans.!
I love this car: my grandfather had the Alfa 90, then the 164 (2.0 TS) and then the 166. I still drive his 166 (2.4JTD 5cyl Diesel), it has more than 200K kilometers and I still love all the features it has, the comfort and the driving dynamics. One time in your life you should drive that car on italian mountain roads, You'll love it even more.
Congrats for your beautiful 164.
Grazie aox8! I would love to ship our Maserati Bora over to vacation in Europe. I do keep imagining the right group of friends willing to make that trip. ..(or buy cars in Europe to drive, then sell again at the end). The most ambitious plan would be to ship the cars into the port of Athens, drive up to Ioannina, down to Corfu, ferry across to Brindisi, across to Naples, Rome, find the Pagini Collection, continue north via Urbino, then to Modena followed by Genoa before dashing north through Switzerland or Austria, drive the Romantische Strasse in Germany, up across Denmark, over to the coast of Norway to Narvik, turn east and come back down thru Sweden and ship our cars home from Gothenburg.. Some day! :-)
Well Arthur:I watch tons of car vids, from leno on down, This one was surprisingly good, a real pleasurable trip. Thanks
Thank you for your very kind compliment, Phillip. It's an inspiration to do my best to equal this level of quality in my future clips. Learning as I go, it is very valuable to learn what viewers enjoy. Thanks again. - Art
Congratulations, great pictures, magic car, perfect music.
Plus: most of the others cars' marques end their lives at the junkyards, the Alfas get a second life through passionate
Grazie Signore, It was a very satisfying car to own., even with the ZF automatic transmission. Foremost it was a very comfortable, stable, highway cruiser. In "Sport" mode, I could get the rpms up for the engine to make its lovely Busso sounds..
a fantastic car... my dad had one... amazing
Great car, especially the 3.0 24 valve. The sound, the ride, the looks. That was my 3rd Alfa Romeo with quite some more to follow.
Iede Velde Thank you for the comment, It’s my 3rd Alfa as well.. and I enjoy the way it drives very much, even with the automatic... (first was a 1976 2.0L Alfetta Berlina way back in 1988, and in 2013 we bought a 1982 GTV6 Balocco SE that we still own). Cheers!
Arthur Harvey Ah the GTV6, wonderful car. If I had the space to park it I would like to have one too 👍
Arthur Harvey I love the gtv6 2.5 (my father had an '83) he says it's the best car he every had. I think he has some regrets for selling it
Thank you for that fine video. Nothing drives like an Alfa for me. I never got to drive a 164, but I have owned three, Alfa's A 1971
Berlina and two 1987 Milano's . All were a lot of fun to drive!
Thank you for your comment. So you have owned classic Alfa sedans? That must have been a lot of fun! My first Alfa was a '76 Alfetta Berlina with a 2.0L Spica and 5-speed. In fact, that was my first manual shift car ever. A fabulous machine, until it rusted away....
I had never driven a 164 either, until I made friends a few years ago with a local 'Alfisti' who loves the 164. He has a 1994 S with the 24v engine and a 5-speed manual, which he let me test drive.. it was a very strong performer! Since my wife asked for an automatic, this friend advised I find an LS because they are easier to find with the ZF automatic. The LS also doesn't have the sporty body kit, but has the same strong 24v DOHC engine..
Thanks again.
On the quiet the 164 is one of the finest cars Alfa ever made. Two of mine were the 2 litre Twin Spark, and they were really different to the V6 (I had one of those as well) You could throw the 2 litre around more and it was not slow with a top speed of nearly 130. Too many people who have never driven one are put off by the idea of FWD. In my book it just gave you more confidence in the car.
Thanks for the comments, Tim. I'm in the US and the 4cyl version was never offered here. I agree the FWD is very well sorted. Some drivers who are used to 25-years-more-modern FWD platforms still detect torque steer, but I love driving it. Roomy, quiet and comfortable. I've completed a bunch more work on the 164 and it is such a nice car... I have abandoned the plan to make it a daily driver. I just can't get myself to drive it through our harsh and salty winters, even though it is galvanized. I looked for an equivalent modern platform and after checking the Mazda 6, bought a Volkswagen CC as a reasonably comparable car. Cheers!
In my experience you could go in to a corner at almost any speed and left foot brake in to the apex with your right foot placed firmly on the floor and just lift off the brakes and go round. Easily the most fun I have ever had in a big saloon
Una delle ammiraglie definitive italiane!
In the past I have owned 164 3.0 and 75 3.0. Both are wonderful but different. In fact the only solution was to have both!
Can't beleve I sold my 164 LS, worst mistake of my life (other than my first marriage)
Hey Arther, a little mistakes, the 164 was introduced in 1988 out of Italy, but alreàdy in 1987 in Italy, the manufacturer thought the car was too important to take eventually "young child disseases to important foreign markets. I was selling Alfas in 88' in Germany, and as the summer holidays passed and all german tourists returned from Italy, there was a never seen wafe of visits and interess for Alfa dealers. As the tourists saw the 164 running on Italian highways or cities. A great car, and as you drive an automatic geared one, I wonder why you don't mention the kuck-down and power of the Busso V6, but you have a Lusso, which has already much more improved front axle geometry etc. If you can test an Automatic 1 st series, meaning models before autumn 89', those were like Mustangs(the horse, not the car), it's kick down and power were too nuch for the front agle, but it was hell of fun. I helped myself and customers of 1st series, mounting 3cm shorter feathers in front and lower the dampers in the rear, this costed then ca. 350,- bucks, but it helps so much to bring the power of the V6 without dancing of the stearing-column, on the street.
Ciao Nino - Grazie for the details about the beginnings of the 164 in Europe! Yes, especially the Sport mode of the ZF automatic gets a lot more power and "spirit" from the Busso V6... the steering dynamic you describe is what I believe we call "torque steer", and I don't think I felt much of that from our LS, but that is probably my own fault - for not pressing he gas pedal HARD enough, LOL!! Thank you for your comments, and may you and all your family have a very Happy New Year! - Art
I have a euro spec 96 model Super with the same engine with the ZF auto. Both maroon exterior and interior leather. Exceptional cars and like you said exceptional enthusiast community. Enjoyed the video especially the sound of the engine. Greetings from Sri Lanka
Tharanga Wijayaratna Thanks for your comment, I’m glad your are enjoying your Sport!
Great Taranga!!
164 one love
Very very nice video. Thanks.
Thank you very much for the compliment! Cheers!
Beautiful car, I'm trading one of my cars for a '91 Alfa 164L next week!
I have 2 identical like this - first `93 and second `95 with Recaro seats.
👍🏻👍🏽
So why in particular did your friend recommend you get the LS trim? Was it the 3.0 engine?
Primarily it was for the 3.0 24v engine which was standard in the '94 LS.. and the LS gave the best package of standard features; power windows, heated seats, power sunroof, leather interior, three drive modes (Normal, Ice, Sport), etc..
And yes, there is more. Drive a 164 for a week, and then I'd be able to understand what Jeremy Clarkson means when he says "you are not a real car enthusiast until you own an Alfa".
Beautiful car
I have an ‘86 GTV6 with a 3.0 swapped in ...fun indeed! ...except for that 1-2 shift...😁
Hey rex! That must be a blast to drive.. I have an '82 GTV6 w the standard 2.5, and I take it to local track days.. It gets lots of positive comments from other drivers and staff for its sound... Yes, I also have a weak 1-2 synchro! You can find some videos I've made of it... I bought a 3.0L from a Milano Verde to maybe put in it one day... Fun indeed!
really good, thanks
Nice! Respect from russian alfisti.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the clip! Have a good, warm winter..
Forza ragazzi! I think you are few but very motivated!
I remember in the 80s when Alfa Romeo organized a small convoy of mechanics and spare parts to carry out maintenance on the few Alfisti of the USSR
Sera io ho una 3.0 v6 24v super del 1994 cambio automatico...come va il cambio automatico?Ha difetti?qualche precauzione?
Grazie Biagio da Italia
I had the 1993 12V 3.0L manual version. It pulls fantastic. Unfortunately this car needs plenty of TLC. Need to run it hard otherwise it starts to get sick.
This one was still great as a highway cruiser with the ZF automatic. Very little wind noise and so stable.. I think the 24v just loved running at high rpms. But, yes it definitely needed to be driven regularly, which I gladly did! Cheers!
This video always brings me memories when I was in such a hype to get a 164...unfortunately it hasn't happened yet, too many personal problems to solve and the lack of a job doesn't help either...but I saw the ad for a '95 example a few days ago...Super 24v [I'm in Brazil, so EUR spec], maroon [Rosso Proteo, actually] with black interior, 5-speed manual...and less than 35k miles on it. Unfortunately it's way out of my reach, as the owner's asking nearly $13k. But goddamn, such a BEAUTIFUL car...
One day...one day! :D
Anyway, it was a very pleasant video to watch, thanks for sharing. ^^
Greetings from Brazil! \o_
Thanks for your comment, Razyr! That 164 sounds great - very low km's too! The 164 has a small but strong following of enthusiasts here in the US, even though not many people know them.. I like mine a lot, but there are always little things going wrong with it. This week the electric trunk and gas lid releases stopped working.. and I think the power steering is starting to leak (for the third time).. But I love it's style and it drives really nicely for an automatic. Cheers!
Thanks! Here's a link to the ad. Way$ available, she'd be in my garage already! :D
www.webmotors.com.br/comprar/alfa-romeo/164/3-0-super-v6-24v-gasolina-4p-manual/4-portas/1995/23193950?idcmpint=t1:c17:m07:webmotors:clique_card_resultado_busca::anuncio-normal-pos-8&
A few issues here and there are somewhat expected of a 20+ year old car, and even ends up as part of its character sometimes, heheh. Hell, even our '06 Chevrolet Corsa has some of them every now and then. Fortunately nothing really serious.
And it's good to know the 164 has a loyal cult in the US. But regarding parts availability, you guys also need to order and ship from Europe or are there any good North American suppliers still (or already) making them for the examples still around? Getting parts from the US is a lot less expensive and complicated than Europoe and sometimes makes a huge difference in maintaining certain models here.
I don't think they let you loose with the manual gearbox in the states. It changes the car completely. My UK model 94 Super was the same colour as yours and I virtually gave it away in 2006 (stupid me!) , and I think the buyer broke it up for the engine as I can't find an MOT (roadworthiness test) record on line after I sold it (in excellent condition I might add), so he must have pulled it apart PDQ.
Most 164’s in the US are manual shift. My wife asked me for the automatic. As a family sedan it performed very comfortably with the ZF and the Sport mode gave some extra rpm to the shift points. I have driven a friend’s manual LS, with the same S intake runner and Squadra chip upgrades. Yes, it becomes a very different experience.
I'm stuck between a 1991 164 quadrifoglio and a 1994 ls automatic, which one do you recommend me?
Hello Hugo - I would recommend getting whichever is in the best condition. But if they are equal, I would decide on the driving style you want. The ‘94 ZF automatic is 4-speed and has Sport mode, which adds some fun to the LS as good long distance comfortable cruising car. But if you really like a more sporty driving experience, then a manual 5-speed is the best choice. I think the ‘91 Quadrofoglio will hold its value better. Let me know what you think, or what you decide! Cheers!
..manual gear of course
So I’m the steering whine, I couldn’t hear it. Did it do it at parking lot speeds? Was it silent with the new rack? The 164 I picked up is noisier than I think it should be. Impending rack problem? I can’t find any leaks to the ground, but the fluid was down or below the minimum line when I got it. I filled it up and it hasn’t moved. Thanks.
First - I think you are OK if there is no loss of power steering fluid since you filled the reservoir, and there are no drips under the car. You can see the puddle of fluid on the floor of my garage at the beginning. Right at the 7:23 mark, you can hear a steering 'whine' that is different from the 'whirr' of the ZF automatic.. that is the sound of air in the power steering compressor, indicating a low fluid level has le air in, and possibly a leak. If your power steering level was low enough to have allowed air into the system, the system will bleed the air out automatically after you filled your reservoir. You bleed the air out by starting the car, and slowly turning the steering wheel full left and full right, and don't push the steering wheel hard when you get to the steering limits. Sometimes a steering rack leak can be contained inside the rubber steering bellows, but that will only hold the fluid in until it is full. If you have a leak, it will find a way to drip. Any more questions, just ask. Cheers!
Great car!!! It consumes much gas??? I am thinking to buy the same as you have but i cant find to much information of the car... hi from chile!!!
Good morning Hernan, hello to you in Chile, and greetings from me in New York! I don’t remember how much fuel it used, miles per gallon, but it wasn’t terrible. If I had to guess, I would say between 14 and 16mpg in the city, and 24 to 27mpg on the highway. There is a very good group of helpful enthusiasts on www.AlfaBB.com. Cheers!
I always like Alfas (especially from the late 60's till 90's), but my favorite Alfa it will always be the gtv6 (my father had one). I'm sure I would have a hard decision If I had to choose between the Milano and 164. First 164 with an automatic I see in a video
Thanks Jorge - I would have liked a manual transmission in this 164, but my wife asked me very kindly to get an automatic so she could drive it too... I have not been disappointed by the ZF, and it is nice to drive, in Sport mode. Luckily we also drive a GTV6, so I am not missing out on pure Alfa Romeo fun! Cheers!
Arthur Harvey Oh really, do you have a gtv6? It's a great car! I'm sure you had your reasons to get the 164 with an automatic. Oh the Busso V6 singing at high Rpm it's music to my ears. Keep those Alfas running, they are great cars. Greetings from El Salvador!
Gracias and Greetings from New York, mi amigo!
Petrolicious and Doug Demuro should make a video with you, sir )
Thank you Theodor. That is a very big compliment. I will do my best to learn and live up to this level of quality.
Альфа Ромео это жизнь где есть начало и вечный оргазм! Это не машина это божественная техника уникальная своею динамикой резвестью !!! Альфа Ромео это самое лучшее что могли придумать Итальянцы!!!
@65SATisfaction Buongiorno Arthur gentilmente potresti darmi info al cambio automatico? Grazie Biagio
Ciao, Biagio. If you need technical information and help with the automatic transmission, I recommend you seek assistance from the Alfa Romeo Owner’s Club in your country, or a local mechanic. The ZF transmission used in the Alfa 164 was also used in the Saab 9000. You can find help from a Saab mechanic. Cheers, Art
Where did you get your rebuilt steering rack for $350? I have a 95 164Q with a leaking rack.
Ciao, Arturo.. I purchased my rebuilt rack from RockAuto.com.. but it failed quickly, and I had to send it back. Then I bought one from Alfissimo.com, and it also failed. The third rack has been OK, I still have some whiny noises.. also replaced the fluid reservoir and the pump. Serious Caution: the system is extremely sensitive to dirt or debris and this can destroy the oil seals very quickly.. I do think that’s why the first one failed. Maybe the second one too.
Arturo Cordero - One more note: Are you sure the leak is coming from the rack? Check hoses and connections to be sure because those are easier to replace than the rack. Also go visit www.AlfaBB.com and find the forum for 164. Search there for ‘Steering Rack’. I posted a full description of how to change the steering rack, pulling it out the passenger side without dropping the engine subframe. My 164 is very clean underneath, so all the nuts and bolts were easy to get apart. Good luck!
Where did you buy your 3rd rack from?
Arturo Cordero The 3rd rack I also got from Alfissimo International, as a warranty replacement for the failed 2nd rack. That was nice of them to honor. From my perspective, I think the failure was from debris in the fluid, not necessarily the rack. My last repair included the pump, and reservoir with integral filter.
What about the infamous Alfa reliability issues?
Hi Gi, thanks for asking. Being over 25 years old, it needed more maintenance than a newer car, but if you are mechanically minded it responds well to repairs. Parts and technical expertise are available on the major Alfa Romeo forums. That being said, mine had enough miles on it that problems occurred regularly, so it wasn’t really reliable enough to be a daily driver. Power Steering rack replaced. Thermostat replaced. Some fuel injection hose leaks. Transmission TPS had an intermittent failure. Sunroof mechanism failed. ...It’s smart to buy the best one you can find.
Just right manutention by a proper mechanic
the automatic takes all the pleasure of driving it and maintenance is much higher in price
Hello my friend amazing car i have 93 v6 turbo is a beauty . I think you have wrong front lights. 1994 have the small light with projector ;-)
Haha.. the front lights are correct... for America! We never got projector lights on our 164's, but we can buy them now from Europe and convert the electrical feed.
ooo i dont know it that!!!
Huge increase in wind noise as the car get speed on the highway.
legend - "there is hardly any increase in wind noise...."
I had a good laugh :)
.. the low increase in wind noise I’m referring is not from 40mph to 75mph. The low increase spans speeds of 80mph to 120mph. Maybe that’s not your highway speed. Legend. Cheers.
I have one. Spetacular...
Your Alfista friend ("Alfisti" is plural) should have advised you to get a manual gear.
Davide B. Grazie. Oh, no worries. He did, of course. My wife asked for it to be automatic. After driving it for some time she said “It’s nice to drive. I think it’s time I learned to drive a manual.. can you change out the automatic?” So it’s now sold to an Alfisto near Rochester, NY and we’ll find her something manual to drive. PS - You are correct, and Alfista is the feminine. Alfisto is the masculine.
@@65SATisfaction Oh ok, well done
Ehm.. i know it may sound counter intuitive but "Alfista" works as both masculine and feminine, so "Alfisto" does not exist. It's either Alfista or Alfisti.
The Italian language is plenty of exceptions, and this is one ;)
Cheers from Venice Italy.
Davide B. Buona sera, Davide! I did not know such exceptions existed! Ho studato archittectura a Roma per sei mesi nel 1985.. ma il miei Italiano has unfortunately become molto rusty.! I have promised myself to learn it again. Mi dispiace I never visited Venice. Ho inhabito Roma, e visitato Napoli, Capri, Firenze, Bologna, Ravenna, Rimini e Urbino, tutti erano molto belle... Ciao!
@@65SATisfaction A-haaaa...!! Buonasera a te!! E' bello sapere che hai conosciuto il mio Paese!! E hai visto molte città! Sono sicuro che un giorno avrai un' opportunità di visitare anche Venezia.. And considered that almost 40 years have passed since you left, your Italian isn't bad at all!
Was it here in Italy where you got contaminated by the Alfa thing? Here the 164 had had a huge success but i thought it had been close to a flop in the US, as it had been for the Alfa 75.
You can't imagine how exciting and unusual it is to me to see an Alfa 164 riding on Us roads squeaking the tyres, and all through a cockpit view!! So damn cool,..!
It was so lucky to find such a rare video!! The car has aged better than me, there's no doubt about that..:) I've just turned 49...
Thank you Arthur!!
Arthur - You made a huge mistake by going with an auto... Alfa needs a manual to get real power. The 5 speed Cloverleaf would be the one to go with. Red/back exterior
iamanoobiecheez , “..a huge mistake”? .. Not at all. I get where you’re coming from, but your claim is based on an assumption that I want sportiness. Maybe that’s what I’m projecting in this video, but no, that wasn’t why I bought it. Not at all. Sportiness is what my other cars and GTV6 are for (...and they sound a hell of a lot better than the 164). With this LS, I sought out and bought precisely what I wanted. So, let’s instead ask why someone would choose the ZF. And here is my answer: This is driven by both my wife and I with our 3 kids on board. As such it serves as a roomy executive sedan, not a row-through-the-gears sports sedan. It’s capable of that, yes. As are most all Alfa’s, but this is a “big car”. So the ZF totally suits the driving style this car is intended for. We sought the Champagne color and avoided the S’s sporty body panels, because it gives our LS the anonymity we want, to reduce attention by law enforcement when cracking triple digits on the interstate. The ZF is geared perfectly for the engine to sit right at its 4000 power band, purring along at 100-110. The last minutes of this clip show what that is like. You hardly notice it, but that’s 100mph right there. Thanks for the comment tho! It just doesn’t apply to us. Cheers.
ok
..a man of few words.. Seriously, thanks for the comment tho. I think it's a good point for buyers to know what to look for.. Cheers!
I'm in South Africa ... I've got a early 164 12v manual, a 164 QV, a GTV6 and a 147 3.2 GTA ... I'm getting pretty tired of stick shifts 😂😂😂 ... I'm looking for a 164 auto, meanwhile I'll have to make do with the 147 2.0 selespeed (manu-matic) for town driving ... Oh yeah, and like the US, we also have long distances between towns and I tend to sit at around 180kph where conditions allow (about 110mph)
Getriebegeräusche sind nicht NORMAL und Du wirst demnächst , womöglich auf der autobahn bei Vollgas das Getriebe verlieren . Ein 2.0ts hatte Getriebe GERÄUSCHE - manuelle Schaltung - Es hatte das GLEICHE GERÄUSCH , wie Dein Automatikgetriebe . Das 4-Gang automatik in meinem 156 macht keinerlei GERÄUSCHE, das solltest Du bedenken .
Ich tendiere zum 6-Gang Getriebe , weil es am leichtesten zu wechseln ist , im Gegensatz zum 4-Gang automatikgetriebe . Aber Ich bin ehrlich , das 4-Gang Getriebe gefällt mir im ALfa ebenso , wie das 6-Gang . Hauptsache V6 ;-)
Horrible music,nice car.
Grazie, amico mio. Glad you enjoyed the car. The choice of music was very deliberate. You would have to know Italian culture in order to understand it.
who the f would buy a so non-torque engine coupled with ..veeery sluggish Automatic gearbox?! It's a blasphemy for alfa. A woman only could buy that configuration.. or a slave of that woman😂
A golf tdi is some spaceship as acceleration when compared against that ..automatic v6😂😂
Exceptional car, very modern for it's time, immensely comfortable and a wonderful companion. How do I know? ;) The past 100,000km with one...
Alfa Romeo spent years and a huge budget on this project, no other model before or since has been more thoroughly developed and / or tested. Only consistent failure on these cars are the A/C stepper motors which happen to be German. Other things mostly work just fine after 20-some years. My windows are slow, but that is forgivable given the mileage and years...
I've seen 164's with over 400,000km on the odo. Thanks for the video, kudos and Best Wishes!
Thank you Ma Che Cazz - I remember about reading the large investment Alfa Romeo made in developing the 164.. CAD design and computer simulated assembly.. I love its handing, it's not necessarily sporty, but firm and confident, just perfect for a cruising sedan. My example is very clean and rust-free (thanks to being galvanized).. It makes it easier to work on for me. .Yes about the AC stepper motors..! I have replaced my window up/down mechanisms, the plastic gears break their teeth. Cheers!
Arthur Harvey
When I first got it the auto A/C functions and all still worked, and BTW it was Ice cold! They had the brains to put a reliable Japanese 'Sanden' compressor in there.
These assemblies are actually 'Bosch' parts, almost identical to the E30 BMW equipment. There is a permanent fix if you redo the motors with Bronze gears but problem is getting these or having them made ($$) and then 2 days of very delicate and careful work pulling out the dash to reach them. Doable, I know a few who done it... Just requires space and time I can't spare atm...
Mine is a manual.
I have seen an Alfa 164 with over 540.000 km on the odo. In fact I see it every day and drive it every day :D