Waves Should SELL the Company
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2023
- Without warning, Waves Audio has cut off support for past purchases of their plugins (Just like as if they were out of business), and all new purchases have to be through a new subscription model.
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Waves just announced they are doing a 180 on the change. But do you feel any better about them as a company? Do you trust them going forward?
Nope… I’ve already spent over 400 bucks on new plugins to replace the Waves equivalent….. they still lost me as a customer….
I think they realized they made a mistake being that they did this 180 fairly quickly. I'm good with it at this point.
Everyone fell for their PR move. Free advertising for everyone.
Part of me wonders if this wasn't an internal battle at Waves that was effectively settled by the PR apocalypse we just witnessed. I've seen this happen before. One or two powerful people at a company want to introduce some moronic way of boosting revenue that everyone knows will fail on arrival, but the powerful parties won't let it die. So eventually, everyone says, "Fine, let's do it. Let's see what happens." And, predictably, it fails, and the couple of powerful people are proven to be the greedy idiots everyone knows they are.
Nope. They’ve lost me. I’ll continue to use the plugins I’ve paid for from them until I can’t update anymore but I won’t be purchasing anymore from them
Waves? Rings a bell. They were a big plugin developer weren't they?
Yeah that one company from way back
@@creativesoundlab I believe these are actually statements of the future.
Yeah, I still have their first plugins installer on 3.5 disk for old nubus apple system.
Don’t be a slave, boycott waves! Let’s also do a class action lawsuit. We need to do a class action lawsuit as well. They must be made an example of or others will follow.
I don't like their business practice as well, but... what are you suing them for?
The product you bought, still works as intended. You can only not upgrade, when needed, without a subscription. If you stay at the current version of your DAW and your current version of the working plugin, they have delivered as intended.
So, I'm afraid that a lawsuit won't bring you anything, except a lot of costs...
And again: I don't like it either! But we have to stay realistic here. It's totally up to them to decide how they want to do business. And it's up to us to decide if we accept that or not. If not... we move on.
@@Massiefje what if you bought those plugins a fortnight ago? Or you need legacy versions to revisit an old project? Or you paid $1000s for them at their old prices? Sounds like an unfair contract to me, which you can persue in the UK at least. Besides, a class action would share the legal costs.
I doubt others will follow this. Other companies care about their customers.
They are related to half the lawyers so that won't work.
@@woodendoors9532 lol
Why ive always used physical hardware for music. "You will own nothing and you will be happy." is the new corporate MO. Renting forever means limitless income.
THE GREAT WAVES RESET
We must OBEY.
More like the Great Reject. You reap what you sow.
I've phased out Waves over the years, because I perceived Waves as the most unsympathetic plugin provider out there. And frankly, I was expecting that move. To save your projects, don't just save the raw audio, stems and the final mix, have your processed tracks rendered out as well. That'll keep you from having to start all over again, when only a small change is needed. The worst case scenario is that you have to figure out a way to make just one or a few tracks sound as desired. Disk space is much cheaper than 25 bucks a month. But that's just my two cents on the matter.
Waves lost me at the upgrade practices. I had just bought a group of waves. And when it was time to upgrade, they sent me a bill for me to have the right to upgrade. I was so shocked, didn’t even have them 3 months
The same thing happened to me. I have a few hundred bucks in Waves plugins that are completely worthless now. Great software, horrible business practices. I absolutely love Reason, but I had to walk away from that DAW as well: $150 every year to upgrade vs. $200 forever for Logic. It’s really too bad. (And I work in software, so I understand the costs and maintenance required, but as a consumer, it’s a nightmare.)
Waves lost me already 4 years ago at the moment I found out about their strategy.
I never looked back.
and they were really unclear about it too. I remember having bought the MV-2 and was happy with it. Then an update was ready and i installed it only to learn afterwards that I needed a new licence.
Same here, I am done with these crooks.
I have never updated my waves plugins. They all still work no problems. I do hate this subscription business model though.
That's insane. Imagine selling something to a customer and then having the cheek to charge them rent as well.
First. Also this is hugely concerning. I own Mercury. That's years of investing in Waves plugins. This is just...horrible.
The previously bought plugins are yours 🙂
@@leonknorr But when it’s time to update the plugins!?! Waves pulled a dirty one IMO. Didn’t even gave us a heads up!
@@EvilSoundsEntertainment Well, you don't get updates. But at least you can keep the plugins.
@@leonknorr what you wanna say? At least you keep the trashcan?
@@leonknorr
Old plugins are useless if they’re so out of date that you can’t run them on any system or DAW in 5 or 10 years.
Either way, still a giant waste of money for people who’ve invested heavily in these plugins over the years.
Without Trust there is only Suspicion. So, like Elvis said, “We can’t go on with suspicious minds.” I’m out Waves.
Waves could have kept the purchase separately option, but they were too greedy. They could have made a sub where you pick the plugins you want, or existing owners get a discount, or different levels of subscriptions, or they could have made it super affordable, or they could have given kick backs like plugin alliance does with their subscriptions. The bottom line is Waves does what’s good for Waves.
yeah my thoghts exactlty
Seeing one of my favorite channels that's always in a good mood, always happy to explore audio more and find happy little accidents be too heated for color made me very glad I've steered clear of Waves. Looks like that's a permanent choice now.
I have almost every Waves plugins that I paid for. Now they're telling me that they want to loan me their plugins? I don't think they care that I paid them thousands of dollars. I paid $3100 for the mercury bundle on sale.
Thanks for sharing the news! I gave up on Waves some years ago due to WUP and messy upgrades between versions. There are many good alternatives out there which have better offers and really good plugs
The Waves CEO needs to be fire
I'm replacing the Waves plugins, just going through the list now
I need to know the plugin will work without having the need to pay again and again and again and again and again and again and again and OH I haven't got enough money! YOU DONE NOW!
I bought the Horizon pack a long time ago. Only worked for a few years, then the license ran out. This business model has kept me from buying their plugins ever since, even though some of them seemed really neat. I'd much rather buy from a company that respects its customers.
i dont even use their plugins, not for 2 years, i knew they were kinda shady and never really liked them, the reverbs were cool, but i easily replaced everything with other awesome companies
Same here. I long switched to Plugin Alliance, Arturia, Slate VMR and Softube. My mixes sound better. But I still use RBass and MV2
I really only use their SSL channel strip. The trouble is, this one plugin is so deeply woven into my workflow. And it's really difficult to find a plugin that does the same thing for that good of a price. But I guess I'll just have to start looking, cause no way am I gonna pay for that subscription.
@@mrcoatsworth429 SSL themselves have some channel strips, normally 200 sometimes you can get them for like 30-60 i think but i forget, maybe 40 or something. you can always email them or get some friends to email them and i've done that to get sales to trigger off.
Well hang on to your hat little buddy. They'll ALL go subscription eventually. And you'll take your government injections, wear the mask, live in the pod and eat the bugs.
@@mrcoatsworth429 From memory, IK Multimedia offer SSL style channel strips in two flavours - 'British Channel' (SSL 4k E) and 'White Channel' (SSL 9k and XR625). Give them a try.
I was completely unaware of this! Thanks for making this video man
Is it true that you can't open project files anymore? That would be a total mess. Does anyone has experience with that? I am an Ableton user..I don't know if it differs what DAW you use...?
so wait a min....im still trying to process this.......I havent recorded anything of note for a good while now, couple months maybe...but occasionally i do like to shuffle through unfinished past projects with a fresh ear..(that i used Waves on). Are they telling 'me specifically' that i can still use what i already 'own' but with no future support? (which i am fine with, since i barely use Waves anyway) but all FUTURE products will be subscription based? OR are the telling me that now those plugins i already paid for wont even work at all without a monthly fee? ( kinda like Photoshop did....i still got version 7, and honestly havent used it in years because im certainly NOT about to pay monthly for a program i only use on an 'As-Needed' basis)
This never happens to me with my rack gear, bought it once and I can always make room for more actual gear to plug in. Recording from the source is where it starts. How much money do you save with plug-ins when you have to keep paying and upgrading computers and interfaces?
That stare at the end disappointment, upset, I feel the same way and so do countless other people. Even if they do a U-Turn they have broken trust causing irreparable damage to their name. This means no matter what they do from here on in, no one will want their business again.
Damn that stare at the end..... Do you have kids? I imagine they are well behaved with that expert disappointed dad look!
Haha best comment of the week. I have 4 kids. 3 boys and you can tell I have practice!
@@creativesoundlab lol thanks man, thanks for creating your content, it's helped answer many of questions for me at times.
Keep doin what you do!
Pay for 220 plugins, of which you’ll use 4 or 5…
and the bonus is you get to pay every month for perpetuity!
@@tosvus The beatings will continue until moral improves.
This is why I (after years of using tons of external plugins worth over 1000€) have receded into only using the stock plugins of ableton and logic. I can feel more secure in knowing I can open up projects from years ago, without resorting to freezing every track in the project that has external plugins on it. (The only exceptions to my stock-plugins-only rule is the Izotope Ozone suite, SSL bus compressor 2 and Waves Real-Time autotune... but now I'll have to go find another autotune to use)
Save up for Anteres Auto Tune. Trust me it’s super good. I wish I could give you my login to try it but I’m out of computers to put it on
But the glue compressor is basically an SSL bus compressor brotha 😂
@@R3BBiT if you've ever actually A'B'd them on a mix you'll know that's not true
Logic's pitch flex is as good as any other autotune, if not better
Dang that sucks. I'm losing a lot of plugins.
Ive never used Waves Plug ins..do they had somethig groundshaking,,?
What happened to me was, they forced me to download the latest waves launcher, that didn’t support a few older plugins so I had to find a work around for that, but then when I upgraded to an M1 mac, if I wanted my plugins to be supported I had to pay for the upgrade, after buying a perpetual license I think that bs.
I bought only one plugin from them. The licencing was so painful I never did it again
Waves? Is that joint still open?
I totally agree 💯% with you Ryan!! I too am very concerned about this, and (in my honest opinion) waves have approached this in an extremely bad way! 🤬
If your computer doesn't have an internet connection, you can still use your Waves VST for 10 years.
My old laptop with Vista and Ableton 8 and almost all Waves bundles from back then will also be able to use the Waves VST for the next 10 years because it has never had an Internet connection and was and is only used for music production. ;)
Greetings from Germany
what happens when your laptop dies?
@@ruslanr.6171 Get me a new old Vista laptop and reinstall everything! For example ;)
Those who have physical data carriers (DVD) have a clear advantage here.
One more reason not to like software that is only available as a download.
Will this effect people who got a waves bundle by unconventional means like 10 years ago? Asking for a friend?
They have just announced a U-turn, but I won’t be going back. I agree strongly with everything you say here - they will struggle to regain the trust of their customers and the audio community at large after this.
Where are Eddie Kramer, Chris Lorde Alge, Masseratti, Puig, and all these guys now ? Whats their position/opinion on this ?
Mercury in 2007 or so I could of sworn use to be 30k from when I was in high school 🤔. I bought it recently for $2000 and they told me all those plugins will be still be mine perpetually
I got mis-sold lots of Waves' plugs years ago. At the time I bought them, I was not told it was for a limited time and that I would have to renew at more co$t.....
We call it the "sweetheart deal" in the software world. Great introductory price, but once you go to renew....different story.
Love what you said!
Fab Filter, Slate...lots more options.... thanks for your great video!
Am not supporting this move by Waves but I don't really get why you can't open an old project. Weren't the plugins working before the announcement? It's not as though they've disabled your existing plugins, I don't think I'm entitled to updates if Mac OS changes break things. *I just don't update Mac OS if it is going to cause problems*
People should REALLY be mad at themselves first and Apple second.
Me? I'm on a Windows 7 computer and happily working away!
@@RealHomeRecording That's cool, I run Waves plugins I bought on both Mac OS Monteray and Windows 11 so you could update your Windows PC without issues, there are many audio companies telling you not to update to Ventura so yes this is an Apple problem
This is the same reason years ago I ditched Adobe. As a graphic designer, I had spent thousands on software and the suddenly, I couldn't upgrade anything. They wanted me to take a total loss on my investment and do the subscription model. Where if I ever stopped I couldn't go back and edit my old projects. It was pure greed. Because I had AfterEffects, Premiere and Photoshop, plus all their other software like Flash, etc. But all my video editing software was useless without updates due to new camera and video drivers. Same thing as a musician with plugins, etc. I've decided to only go with non-subsctiption companies I can trust. Or when I can aggird it buy hardware alternatives.
I really wish people responded this same way to Adobe to force them back to Perpetual licenses. But at least our voices were heard this time with "Waves".
I owned Waves plugins back in the windows 95 days. They migrated to XP and the old plugins and dongle didn't work. The upgrade offered by the company was more expensive than buying new plugins from a retailer. I've never purchased a Waves plugin since.
There was awesome music before WAVES, there will be more awesome music after WAVES. They'll won't get my money after this.
The people who buy, stream, run MP3's from iPhones etc., etc. - they don't care what plug-ins we use. A great shame, least I didn't sink thousands in to them. Their loss. Good honest vid, an easy like.
wow i think this was the harshest take i've seen on this, but also yeah a pretty good idea. i suggested something similar in my video (premiering tomorrow). essentially that they do what PA does and take other brands on board so they can sell more plugins a year vs 1-2 that they do which would make their sub model more valuable. the sub only has real value if new things are being added to it, otherwise it's just exploiting people and no one likes that. waves isn't a monopoly anymore, they are one of a million different people/companies creating plugins.
I agree with every word here. Perfectly said, man. This is all very basic business commonsense, really. It’s a shame Waves is this bad.
Fr, the first time they sent me an email about upgrade plans, I was like "well that's the last time I'm buying a waves product" and I don't even bother installing them anymore
We all need to get together and show to Waves that they need us to make money. We can proof to waves that we can produce the mixing with the same quality without any waves plugins. Thank you great video.
They should allow existing plugin users access to the installers for V14 (but no further updstes) and also allow a 2nd licence as a goodwill gesture to existing customers. By sheer coincidence, I updated all Waves plugins to V14 in my main PC and travel laptop 2 or 3 hrs before their announcement was made.
I'd ask for a refund
So True...They could have brought the subscription model as an add-on to the existing way of their working...totally moving to the subscription based model is sooooo uncool....they must withdraw this change
Thankfully I don't have too many waves plugins, and I doubt I'll be getting any more.
Well said.
I think it is a good idea. Their management has basically killed the reputation, so the only way to backtrack and save face is to get new management in somehow.
I so agreeee! Very well put. Waves ( and Avid to some extent) adopt an unfrendly business model. Close to unsustainable for us users. Things has to be said, shout out is good.
This is part of why I'm in favor of the hardware route. Yeah, it has some workflow inconveniences, they're more expensive, however hardware doesn't require software updates, and they won't disappear once I physically own them.
We've got pretty much all of the old Waves plugins. We have older systems though and stopped purchasing anything new or upgrades when they started making the whole process more complicated. We're happy with the Waves plugins we have and use some of them in every project, but it's just not worth the hassle to upgrade or buy any of the new ones. I remember speaking to a guy a Waves years ago about this. Looking at the frequency of sales etc, I suspect Waves aren't doing too well as a business. It's a shame really because they've released some great stuff. The older Waves plugins also use very little CPU, which means more CPU for other things. I just hope that we can still continue to use and reinstall them in 5he future. The company might well be managed better by someone else.
Plugin Alliance have some great stuff with different ownership options and dead simple authorisation.
Didn't really use a lot of Waves plugins, but Scheps Omni Channel is great for me whilst I'm waiting for the DBX 160 from UAD to be put on Spark now I've sold my Apollo. It's a great plugin in its own right, but I'm not going to pay a subscription to just use that along with RBass. The WUP ecosystem was a bit of a con when they introduced that, too.
Just had an email, looks like they've backtracked and are reinstating perpetual licences. Not suprising given how many similar videos have been posted over the last few days.
Spot on. Business is about relationships, people.
One of the only RUclipsrs to rip’em a new one! Spot on. Plugin Alliance runs their business much better than waves. Wouldn’t send another nickel to anything waves is involved in.
They lost the customer code
Unfortunately companies like this cannot survive without reoccurring revenue. Once most people purchase their 20 plugins that they regularly use they don't buy many others. I've been using the same one's now for a couple of years. I don't mind that they went to an all subscription service providing they will support their existing customers, which is where my gripe is. There should be a fair less expensive purchase plan to keep your purchased plugins updated. This keeps the small guys like myself who record music as a hobby in the mix. For people who do this for a living, the subscription plans are actually a decent deal. Why not cater to both the hobbyist and the professionals?
why wouldnt you be able to open old project though
Waves screwed me over so many times that I started really invested in analog gear and I've never been happier. As far as plugins go, Analog Obsession is where it's at.
I remember, 8k for the Waves back when,
Waves is dead..
stock plugs, gets it done.
You can do this, when you are the only one. Like Adobe did. But there is no real alternative to many Adobe products. Some are good enough for a lot of users, but if you are dependend on your work on Photoshop and are a wizard with it, there is simply no alternative. But there are many alternatives to waves products.
That's one of the biggest headscratchers here. Waves has very, very few plugins that aren't imminently replaceable today by some other vendor, or a dozen other vendors, that work just as well. The only advantage they have is that everyone has their legacy sessions saturated with these Waves versions of plugins and never thought to print stems. So, they're literally holding people hostage with their own project files. It's funny and kind of sick at the same time.
I didn't mind the Update Plan - it was about £50 a year for me as I only updated the plugins I actually used. The subscription is not viable for me - so I will be weaning myself off Waves plugins as eventually they will stop working. So best to stop now. More sensible would be to allow those who actually updated and paid, to continue.
What about the plugins I already own?
No worries. You continue to own your plugins, at the latest version you bought or to which you updated.
According to the newsletter.. So I wouldn't be too worried about opening past projects but that's absolutely the end of my interest in the company.
This was coming. A sale every other week, so that a plugin someone paid a ridiculous $300 for was now only $29. Sales predicted “new plugins” with disappointing one knob series and the classic “vu meter” plug.
Are we really surprised the “K-mart” of plugins is digging their own grave?
Back to hardware kids!
I never left!
Well said Ryan.
Music to a pirates ear.
Wait, they what? I'm so used to ignoring their emails that I didn't even see this. SMH
Well I think they’ve made a free visibility campain. However they can go where the wind brings … far …
I kinda wonder if this move is a last ditch effort to save the company. Maybe they are on the brink of insolvency.
Great video!
Can a company get ratioed with RUclips videos?...
We all music maker producer should stand up together and do something about this wave nonsense let them down for six months or a year they will reconsider about their bad choices on going subscription on us and we need to find different alternatives.And 👍to all producers that agreed and 👎for wave with their stupid subscription.
Well said!
I’ve got these vintage plugins
Doesn’t it say that the plug ins you own will still operate?
Subscriptions are WACK
LUCKILY I ONLY HAVE 2 waves plug-ins .
The sales deadline extended forever was the red flag for me. Boikot them
sales are usually not needed if the product is killer
I don't understand them doing this at all; why didn't they just make it an OPTION like other companies? Some people love their Slate Digital or Plugin Alliance subscriptions and some people like just having a few useful plugins from those companies; either way, people can choose what they want to do and everyone is usually pretty happy. I don't see the upside of making every person go onto subscription; are they over estimating the conversation rate? Judging from the extremely negative reaction to the announcement, it seems like they are.
I Totally agree !! Madmen are running this company 😢 sell it like a sports team
👏
I'm as pissed as anyone about this. That being said, from a practical standpoint, I have some ideas. 1) If you own Waves plugins, & you want to try the subscription, create a new account & use them on a different computer. 2) Don't sign up until you absolutely have to. 3) If you can, find & begin using alternatives to Waves. If you're a professional, & you need to access Waves plugins in the future, in order to revise an old project, simply sign up for a month, get it done & then cancel.
“It’s not 2004 anymore”… WELL. SAID.
It's not incompetence, its one of those disgusting calculations some those noob marketer yuppies came up with. The owners should fire those. At least I see many search for alternatives, and there are already great tips out there. I'm changing this as well with better alternatives.
I love my Waves plugins and always liked Waves. However, I cannot afford the upgrades charges. It's literally robbery. So, I'll be letting my Waves vsts fade into the past and replace them with other alternatives as time goes on.
Well I wouldn't have made that move with UAD recently opening up to native PC users..
Totally agree. I’m done with Waves.
DAMN. guess its time to ditch Waves plugins. wont miss them
but wait! They have a decades old flanger!!!!! Vintage!!!! lol. So greedy on their part. They are so incredibly blind.
I never thought I'd see the day when the "Big Corporation" ruled in favor of the consumer...kudos to everyone who posted a video!
Yeah, this is some BS. I have waves plugins from way back and I was turned off when they started doing to billing for upgrades and now this..... 😢
Wait I just got an email, they are now going back to perpetual license ownership? Wtf Waves...
SAW IT COMING FROM 100 MILES AND MESSED WITH SLATE DIGITAL A LONG TIME AGO
Oh wait, they heard our complaints. Waves just sent this out... "After respectfully listening to your concerns, I want to share with you that we are bringing back the perpetual plugin license model, side-by-side with the new subscriptions. You will again be able to get plugins as perpetual licenses, just as before."
I’ve already been pissed at them after being fleeced out of huge amounts of money over the years just to update these plugins. I’m done. Gonna go through all my projects and get a head start on removing them.
I invested a good amount of money in Waves plug-ins early on without fully understanding their practices. That was a big enough let down. My money is much better spent else where these days. RIP Waves. 🌊 ✌️ 😂
I completely agree! Unbelievably waaaaayyyyyy off the mark in terms of what their customer base needs and wants from them. Honestly, the management team have probably been envious of literally every other damn company going this route and wanted to get theirs... Never bothered with their stupid video and sounds like I saved some time not. Hopefully they can feel the heat from this decision and revert their stance 🤷🏻♂️
I feel so cheated. God I was willing to buy the upgrade license. But now I can't at all. Fuck they ruined it.
I already didn't like their old update mechanism. I never updated a plugin. why would I if they still work? instead I have Wave Plug-Ins V9 V10 V 11 V12 and V13 on my computer. So dumb. But now with that subscription model they lost me completely. No more Wave plugins for me. I just hope I can manage to use my V9-13 somehow. From now on I either buy plugins from other companies, or even better I just go with the StudioOne stock plugins. Goodbye Waves. -1 customer.
When you buy software, you don't buy code. The code is never yours. You by a license, a permission to use the code according to the editor's conditions. That's why we always end fucked up...