Great, great review - thank you! I realize this is 4 years old, and I only watched it now. But in particular, I appreciate the way you first explained rapidgate, then evaluated its impact from your POV and landed on it having no real impact. I drive a 2019 Nissan Leaf Plus (62 kWh battery), and our longest road trips are about 350 - 400 km in a day. That’s within the range of the car as it’s got the bigger battery pack, but usually we stop to quick charge once if not twice sometimes given the opportunity, if we make a lunch stop or so. Thus far rapidgating has never been an issue for us. But it depends on the length of trips you do, as you explained. If I drove 600 km in a day on a hot day, it would surely be an issue I’d notice.
We have had our Leaf for a few weeks now. initially, the E-Pedal was a bit odd to get used to (the first few times driving). Now, I have found it makes driving easier, especially in town. I find myself allowing it to slow myself down on hills and finding places to allow it to engage to optimize mileage. Implementing it in stop-and-go downtown driving makes it a pleasure. I very much enjoy driving it now
CLPRPSD it definitely takes some getting used to. Having driven the new Leaf for a week my 24kwh one feels like it has no regen when I lift off. Before I thought it was quite strong!!
EV Opinion it does take some getting used to...do you notice that, when you need to apply the brakes, there seems to be a slight gap where the e-pedal seems to stop and the braking takes over. Hard to explain, but it's similar to being in a stick shift and, when using the engine to slow down, you push in the clutch just before you hit the brakes.
Listened to so many of your vids over last couple of months so THANK YOU! Today I bought my first EV, a 2018 Nissan Leaf and your advice over the whole decision process has been invaluable :) Cheers from Australia!
Thank you very much. I live in the great state of Colorado, USA, so I often cover 200 miles or more in a day. This could still be a viable option for me.
Mine has been perfect but the longest journey I've done was to Fully Charge Live from Liverpool (around 160 miles). I rapid charged twice, both quite early, and had no issues but the M6 had lots of 50mph restricted zones. The second charge was to get me a fair way home before I needed to charge again. Stopped around Coventry, rapid charged for 40 minutes, while I ate some food, and got home with about 12 miles to spare. I did do 70, where possible, on the way home because it was getting late and I was confident no more stops were needed. You can manage the temperature by charging slightly earlier (say 15-20% left) and driving slower - Lemon Tea Leaf has some good tips. All in all, no issues at all. Way better than my previous 22Kw Zoe.
Another great video, Ryan. You give a good objective view of the car. We test drove it a few weeks ago, but we found the seats pretty uncomfy, unfortunately - even on a small test drive around the locality of the dealer. But we did love what the car could do and how it felt, especially the e-pedal. Although #rapidgate is not an issue for us either, there's the feeling that, due to the charging issues, there may well be more depreciation if you were to buy new. We've since bought an Ioniq and I'm finding that on max regen, it's not so different from the e-pedal, except for not coming to a complete stop. I think for someone who's not driving up and down the country every week, the Leaf's a great car still.
EV Opinion We were taken around in the demo car which I think was an n-connect. I didn't find them too bad, but my wife, who has hip arthritis, found the padding at the sides of the seats too narrow.
Ryan - this was a great honest review. It appears that despite the battery issues, you really like the Leaf, and would really appreciate the added range the 40 kWh battery has to offer. Your climate is a good match for the non-thermally managed battery, and it appears that the 2018 model could fit into your life. However, if you could swing it, I think you would appreciate the range of the 60 kWh battery once that’s available, especially considering that your next car purchase is to replace a petrol car. Pushing the range out to 200+ miles would cover 100% of your typical travels nicely. The only question would then be - is the 60 kWh battery too heavy? I’d hold off until you’re able to test the 60 kWh car and decide for yourself if the added cost and weight is worth it.
Great video, loved the scenery shots, I travel 200 miles about once a month in my 2018 Leaf, it just requires a 30-minute Motorway stop to recharge to 80% battery as you highlighted. I don't think you should hesitate to purchase one. Rapidgate may be a problem if you want 2 or more full charges but thats some mileage in a day
+ Paul Humphries, "Lemon-Tea-Leaf" here on u-Tube has a video of his trip from Scotland down to Silverstone (for the FullyCharged EV live event), detailing his battery management method. In essence, keep the charge over 20% (below that the rapid charge will really heat up the battery from the start), then the charge up to about 80% will be at quite a high rate. Allow the car to 'stand' for 5 or 10 minutes to cool the battery before beginning the charge, as that will allow for a higher charge rate, and allow 5 or 10 minutes before driving off (again, to allow the battery to cool after the rapid charge), so the battery does not build up heat incrementally. If you watch his video it does make sense, just a matter of understanding what is happening. As an after thought, If you have a petrol car stuck in very heavy traffic, on a Very HOT day, so no air-flow to cool the engine, IT TO will overheat! Funny thing though, an EV in those conditions probably won't? I am looking at getting an '18 Leaf next year, and "RAPIDGATE" does not worry me. A matter of understanding and planning. Thanks to EV Opinion for an honest evaluation. Most helpful to get a wide range of views!
Con Cahill: Thanks for the information, the problem as I see it is, when I am doing a 200 mile journey I am meeting business clients, so I have to have a meeting time and sometimes the motorway services just aren't in the appropriate place to match the state of the battery to achieve LemonTeas plan, if you're driving for pleasure, I am sure it's not a problem.
+Paul Humphries, I can see your point. Other than getting a Tesla (regardless of which model :-), the 'greenest' alternative would be one of the new generation of PHEVs that reportedly have an EV range of up to 30 miles (as opposed to the 13-16 of the first generation). I would have said the Ampera, but I believe it has been dropped by Vauxhall. This is just musing here, but I wonder if in the future meetings might be arranged so that attenedees picked a venue equidistant from the furthest 2 people, so hopefully nobody goes further than a full charge away, and all can re-charge during the meeting. Admittedly, that will fall apart, if the meeting is required to be about the venue or it's use, (you can't move a factory production-line for a meeting, after all). Then again, if Elon Musk's idea of a long distance transportation system ever arrives (the one where you park, and your car drops below the road on a lift, then joins a train of other cars in the tunnel to the next city), range will be less of an issue.
I own a 2018 Leaf and I LOVE it. Very well put together, interior is of excellent quality and the materials although not flashy - are of a very high quality. The electric range is excellent, it has respectable amount of power and torque. 100% electric and ePedal is amazing, it makes a big difference for me. What you will quickly learn is you never need to use the brake, and on top of this you brake pads and rotors will last a long, long time - bringing down cost of ownership. The rapid charge gate stuff is overblown IMHP, unless you do cross country trips weekly; for me a single charge can last 4 days easily.
My 'regular'long journey is from mid Cheshire to Somerset. It was a challenge for the LEAF24 but the LEAF40 handles it with ease. 1 stop (M5 Gloucester services) for 45 mins for a meal (used to stop there anyway in the hybrid) gives me enough to reach my destination.
Graham Millman dunno how far that is but, when i do my normal road travels i go 300-400km in one go then 15-30 minute stop and continue onwards if i need to travel 800-1000 km.
WanderingDutchman not if you are below 60 years of age and somewhat healthy. My father that is 65 can drive for 4-5h straight, which he needs sometimes due to he is involved in racing here in Sweden. heck the only time i needed a break was in my old cars without air con, anything over 2h was really a hassle for me 😅 and those without power steering AND air con i felt 1,5h was my max before i needed fresh air 🤣 however i understand if some people don't deem themselves fit enough to drive more than 2h. but imo most cars from 2010 and onwards are a breeze compared to the 80's.
Nice unbiased review. I knew about rapidgate before buying my leaf and even more so than yourself knew it was never going to be an issue for me (the furthest I've driven in the last decade is about 140 miles, easily doable on a single charge or stopping for one rapid to be safe). I do think Nissan should have been upfront about it and i would still like to see them bring out a firmware change allowing you to override the slowdown very occasionally (even for just 25% charge, that might be all you need to get home). If I had to guess I think they left out active cooling on the 40kwh to allow them to hit a low price point. This will allow them to truly differentiate it from the 60kwh version when it comes out. They will start to market the 40kwh as the "cheap" short ranged version that will suit most people and the 60kwh as the "long range" version for heavy commuters. This will let them justify a much higher price tag.
Lemon tea leaf used leaf spy to monitor how the state of charge affects the battery temperature and concluded that the 40kw leaf should always be rapid charged before the state of charge drops below 25 percent on any road trip that requires three rapid charge stops.
Hi Ryan, a very balanced video. I have a 30Kw Leaf on pcp expiring Oct next year. I have up to now, always thought I would progress to the 60Kw Leaf. However, your video has made me think twice, as I too would rarely want to rapid charge more than once on any of my occasional long journeys. When the time comes to change, I suspect there will be some very attractive deals for the 40Kw Leaf and a long lead time for the 60Kw Leaf.
Great vid, keep them coming. Admittedly the new Leaf hasn't grabbed me like some other EVs for many of the reasons you've outlined in your review. That said you've demonstrated that you don't really know until you've tried it out. I'm still on the hunt for a 1st gen Leaf which really appeals to me but if I was considering a new car the new Kona could be up there!
Just ordered my Tekna leaf today, can't wait. Like you rapidgate is not a issue, and i dont think its really a issue for most people when they sit and think about it, how often do you drive +300 miles in a day, even on holiday.
fulmarmedia every time we go on holiday to be honest which is why this can only ever be a second car for us. We're currently on holiday in France. It was a 10 hour drive just to get to Portsmouth so a leaf just wouldn't work for our holidays. Routine day to day stuff yes but not holidays
Well documented on the new nissan leaf! I found the handling of the car to be sooo much better than the last! I wouldn't mind one but the fear of rapid gate kicking in worries me for my journeys.
At approx 65% charge or more and high temperature 36-40 degrees the charge rate may throttle back to 22kw so a old model leaf may charge faster than the new model.
I'm a new subscriber and I have been enjoying your opinions on various EV topics. Especially the videos on deciding on replacing a second ICE vehicle. I did consider the 2018 Leaf and entertained the thought of a used Tesla (briefly), but we just bought a 2018 Kia Soul EV. I really love driving it! There are pros and cons but the pros outweighed the cons for my family. I bought it based on longer range than our current Leaf, price (cheaper than a Leaf), the driving experience and the need to fit 3 kids (ages 9-15) in the back and they do, comfortably. I also love that the regenerative braking (B mode) is aggressive enough that it's almost one pedal driving. So, what have you decided? You looked so happy in the Model S.
Wow. Your videos keep getting better and better. I finally got the chance to go see the new Nissan Leaf at the local dealer. I really wanted to like it but although it makes sense in many ways I just couldn’t get fired up about it. It would be ok if it were a cheaper car but at €30,000 AFTER government grants, I just cannot seriously consider it.
Eric Wadge thank you for your kind comments and I think you hit the nail on the head. For the right money it would be great but it doesn’t have that appeal factor!
Nissan have been saying recently they are going to recondition older batteries to make up 40Kwt+ packs and sell them at cheaper rates than brand new ones. So if you have an older model Leaf, you'll be able to upgrade the battery packs for new or recon ones. I pressume they will upgrade the software too, so technically speaking older cars will always be more or less up to date with new cars. Great review too!!
Hi there, I have had my 2nd gen Leaf since early March. Done just under 5000 trouble free miles so far. I live in Buckingham and have travelled to Blackburn and back in one day on multiple occasions. Only once having had my rapid charge throttled where I was restricted to 20kw. As you fairly pointed out in your video, Nissan should have been clearer and the response was inadequate to say the least, especially as there are so many electric vehicles comming to market soon (Kona). Great car if you don't travel 300 miles per day, and how many of us do that, really? Well balanced and enjoyable video. Jus
Collected my Leaf last Thu and I love it. Having a battery cooling would be a nice plus but it's nowhere a deal breaker for me or for the most of the drivers around. Unless you are a racer or a long range commuter - issue with an overheating battery is not a problem. Also as a driver, you can manage the temps if you are going to drive 300+ miles in a single day. It's an excellent car and an ePedal is the best feature of this car, it makes driving so much more comfortable, stress free and actually safe (it encourages you not to speed). Lots of tech toys, build quality, quietness in the cabin, performance of the engine, etc - it just the best available EV in the market today in terms of price & availability. Ioniq seems to be a nice car, but it looks and feels like a sub €20k car with a sophisticated battery. A driver needs a car not a battery :). Said that, I owned a Hyundai car before and I find them very reliable, however the build quality may likely result in rattles and squeaks. Major problem with Ioniqs is availability and I hope Hyundai sorts this out in future, however it doesn't seem to be the case for the moment. Thanks for an honest review!
Said Babayev thank you for taking the time to comment. I’m glad my findings match that of someone who has owned one. I agree that the Hyundai would be more successful if they had produced enough to meet demand but sadly that isn’t the case at the moment.
Hyundai has increased the production of the Ioniq EV from around 1000 a week to 1800 a week earlier this year. Planned production for 2018 is just under 50000 Ioniq EVs. It is not enough to meet demand, a demand that is growing as the car is made available in more countries, but it is a good step in the right direction. Sadly the rest of the Hyundai / Kia EVs seems to have similar low production volumes making the total pure EV production number from the group just around 100000 for 2018. The interesting thing is that Kia seems more interested in producing EVs, as the NIRO EV will be built in greater numbers than the Kona. I would not be surprised if the updated Soul EV set to launch later this year, same platform and technology as the Kona, will outsell its sister from Hyundai in 2019.
But why did they compromise on cooling system for such a small saving and significant limitation for at least some? Also this epedal thing? You mean 4 years behind the BMW i3? I drive the i3 and whilst I have on occasion with a blue moon rising touched the brake - this is less than 0.1% of the drive time and certainly constitutes from what I can see same as the e-pedal. e pedal schmee-pedal....what an overhyped BS
Said Babayev... Hi man congratulations!!! I just one question, if somebody car theft your car and police found but with out battery pack and just for example you don't have insurance for theft... For how much you Nissan sell new battery pack??? And just one more how much is capacity drop per cycling(4 years for example ) charging discharging
Had an Ioniq on 24 HR test, absolutely superb machine, better performance, better range, better charge rates than the leaf by miles....that all said, I still went for a 41Kwh Zoe as I really needed the range, which incidentally is a real world 200 miles during this lovely heat wave. Had the Ioniq been the 60Kwh it would be sitting on my drive.
Went to the dealer a couple of months ago, wanted to do an extended test drive since Nissan on it's website says I can. Dealership refused (not that I asked to take the car at the spot. I only wanted it in the weekend when they couldn't drive it themselves anyway). Anyway, got a short test drive. First question: where is the speed limiter. Salesguy says he doesn't know. I'm the first to ask. He's surprised to find out it doesn't have one. Major let down for me since my entire economical driving style today balances on the limiter being there. The subwoofer in the back on the Tekna is also a big mistake and makes it impossible to get the optional partitioning for the boot so you get level loading. And then we learned last winter that due to the lack of active thermal management you lose a big chunck of your range on cold winter days. Enough to make it impossible for me to drive the distance home-work-home. Something that is perfectly possible 9 months a year, the other 3 I would need to potentially find a way to charge while at work. I was excited for the Leaf 2.zero and while it looks great (honestly, most people don't want a car that screams EV all over it) it's been a big disappointment for me. If it didn't have so many small annoyances I probably would have ordered mine already. Now I'm waiting for the other manufacturers. And maybe for Nissan if they solved most of those smaller issues on the 2019 model.
Very honest review. You describe what I think. I also do about 240 max miles on occasions. I kept my zafira with 7 seats for room and mileage, but my nissan 30kwh leaf for smaller trips. Tbh, I am trying to find the balance of owning 1 car to replace both. As I drive 90% mostly leaf all year, it makes sense. It's a little headache though as I can't replace my zafira with anything as solid or size. It's just an amazing car, with great sports looks too. I'm looking at the leaf and mg at the sec, but need to be certain before I fully commit. My issue is that you want the best at the lowest possible price. It's pointless saying I could get a particular car that costs 40grand plus, as trying to recover that extra money in savings would take years, even running the 2 cars that I'd already paid for, so no finance
I just figured out that I was traveling 119 miles on a daily basis to work and returning to home with no side trips. This card would have worked beautifully as a daily commuter and I could have just charged at home.
Basically as a *used* car, it's a 100-mile range EV, which is fine for most journeys in the UK. If you have a daily round-trip commute of more than 90 miles, look elsewhere because it might not do it in winter (or in wet conditions).
12.000 Km with my Leaf so far, overall happy with it, but not so happy about the ergonomics in general. Middle console touching my knees, blind-spot caused by the rear view mirror, lack of space for the passenger feet under the front seats. Rapidgate not an issue for me but the lack of TMS does worry me purely from a resale value and battery longevity. Pro pilot works somehow but I am not a big fan of it, I would even say that I bought my Leaf in spite of it.
Excellent review as always - very balanced. I fully agree with your main conclusions that for many, the Rapidgate issue will not be too big an issue because they will rarely need to do more than 2 rapid charges in a single day. However, Nissan were utterly wrong in my opinion to not make this evident in information they make available before purchase. However in many respects this is an excellent car, and very much to the point is available fairly quickly, which regrettably other vehicles are not. It's also true that whilst the Kona is attractive in many ways, it is a smaller vehicle that nobody has yet had the opportunity to drive. The 39 kW Kona is also shorter in length than the Nissan and has much slower acceleration. True, the 64 KW version is very quick but more expensive and nobody really knows when it will be available even to test drive, let alone purchase.
as honest and as unbiased a report as anybody could wish for, only thing i would have added is the bloody console digging into my leg and the awful colour of my car (flame red) apart from that, really enjoying it..
That awful console was a major reason along with the uncertainty of how Rapid gate would impact on resale values having been scorched by Dieselgate to the tune of £2500 already even though I drove a Honda!
gary williams . the console is so bad. if it was not a new car , i would take a hacksaw to the damn tacky, unnecessary thing. i didn't notice it in the test drive. My bad.
Great video again I think you have proved a car of this range in the UK will cover the vast majority of drivers needs, especially with at it capable of at least one rapid charge after setting off with a full battery. It's well past my bladder range! I wonder why the heat of the battery is not used to supplement the car heater? In an ice car when you have been caught in a mega cue on a hot day who hasn't had the wit to switch on the heater and suffer to stop the car over heating?
When I can bare to part with my Fluence the Kia soul EV is the best financial deal on the road Which is why I will order one. No-one has had a bad word about this car apart from looks which I think personally is a terrific looking car.
Great review thanks for making it. - NY State owner of the 2018 Leaf, and I purchased it knowing the charging issue. Why? Because I chose to designate it for what it's perfect for, my daily commuter car. If I have a longer trip I'll grab my Volt, or Rent an ICE from our dealer who offers $25/day vehicles. I can drive the Leaf for 4 days with my typical use before plugging in at bedtime for a recharged vehicle the next morning. Volt provides 50+ daily miles on Electric before switching to gas. Honestly have only used 18 gallons of gas in the past year on the Volt, so even it's EV range is sufficient for my family. My comments above are to remind people to be smart about why you purchase the car, if RapidGate will come into play, get something else, but otherwise this is a pretty sweet little EV. I really enjoy this new Leaf. Hoping I feel the same in a few years. 1 Plugin Hybrid, 1 EV seems to be the best overall plan for our family. Cheers
The lack of TMS Thermal Management System for the battery pack makes it a no go. Not only because issues with DC rapid charging but also the onboard chargers is too small. People want to get full speed at 11 and 22 kW AC charging stations. This will be available on the upgraded 2019 version of Nissan Leaf.
Karl Johansen let’s hope so but for some people this isn’t an issue and as I’ve said before Nissan were wrong but if the car suits your needs then buy it 👍
I thought Nissan were doing a software patch to help with the throttling when charging? If I were to want a Leaf I would wait to see if the 60kwh one turns up at the start of next year, if it has thermal management, more power and they don’t charge too much more for it Nissan will do well.
Blue front splitter, blue rear diffuser, blue holographic front grille, and a well placed "zero emissions" badge on the rear. Not enough to show it's an EV? Also, you can option on illuminated Nissan emblem in the front if that helps your case.
I've had my 2018 Leaf for 5 months/6,000 miles, and hindsight would not change my mind. It's ~$5,000 cheaper than the Bolt and ~$15,000 cheaper than the currently available Model 3.. so it's fantastic value!
I will be steering clear from Nissan after my experience sadly. I like my 2012 leaf but am just sad at the battery quality. Download the manual for the 2018 and read the page EV-20 .. or just ctrl-f the term "direct sunlight" and read that page.
Good video - I have the 30kwh 2016 Leaf, on a PCP deal so goes back next year and I need to decide what I'm doing. The rapidgate made me concern about the v2, and although you're saying its not really an issue - I think it would impact resale value as others wont see it that way. By the time mine goes back the 64kwh should be available, but that for me depends on price and affordability. The 170 mile range is close to what I thought you'd get... Mine on paper is 155 miles, but get a little over 100 motorways miles (all my driving is essentially motorway), 235 mile range (on paper) - I was guessing about 180 - possibly upto 200 maybe with use of the e-pedal? - I wasn't sure how effective the e-padel was, although next to useless on motorways by all accounts!
I’m between the bolt ev and the leaf. I’m leaning more toward the bolt simply for a better interface and longer range. I think the bolt looks better from the outside but the leaf seems to be just a little better on price. If you get the chance to grab a Bolt EV, definitely post a video. New sub, thanks for the video!
Justin M. if the bolt doesnt annoy you ten times a day with a lawyer type nag screen which requires your input before you drive ( every time you switch on the car) . Then buy the bolt.
Hi everyone. I got my new leaf two months ago and I just love it and it is a real pleasure to drive and I just love the e-Pedle I am driving about 1000 miles a month so I am saving money on fuel...yes it will not be a car for everyone....if you can have a test drive and you will find the more you drive it the more you will love it ...
Hi Ryan, a great review, I looked at the New Leaf before I choose which EV to buy about a month before rapid gate. I was told all the bumph by the dealer and they said easily 150 plus miles, but I must say I do prefer the Hyndia Ioniq, I'm getting 140 plus miles per domestic charge(28Kw), and so far the Ioniq has performed exceptionally well including a 210 mile trip to Newcastle Upon Tyne. I think it's all down to personal taste in the end and what suits you and your family. I bet though you are dying to get to try the new Kona EV?😉, perhaps you may get to also re review the Ioniq too after testing the New Leaf and compare the two?
As always a most enjoyable vlog. One thing I'd possibly consider is although you say the 40kw battery leaf will rightly cover 100% of the driving you have done in the last 3 or 4 years I wonder if it wouldn't be prudent to wait for the 60kw battery option coming out in a few months as this is rumoured to have active thermal battery management. I say this as I wonder, once that version is available, what would the resale value be for the 40kw version with no thermal battery management? I think that would certainly put a number of people off but having posed that question if you plan on keeping the 40kw version for a number of years and aren't really bothered by resale prices then... horses for courses.
Hi Ryan, nice video and good facts. I am not sure about 140 miles, as for the longer journey I found that doing 100 miles per charge makes your journey last longer, the lower percentage your battery is, the higher degrees it will get in the first charge and could even reach 50 degrees in the first charge... having said that, it is good for everyday driving, and my everyday driving is over 100 miles per day, for past 14 days we have done 1600 miles, and our chargers are free, however even if I used my home charger or paid for chargers that would be approximately 45€. Thats compared to diesel car same mileage we paid 223 euro. Thats a huge saving only over 2 weeks. If you need to do long long journey, hire a diesel or petrol car and do it, then continue to save with your eco friendly car ;-)
The vast majority use their cars to commute to work, go shopping and school runs. The 2019 Electric cars can easily do these tasks. You have the convenience of charging at home, the clean air to breath, the little to no maintenance, your brake pads lasting far longer all features ICE vehicles cannot match. I would like to see more tests commuting in traffic and the advantages an electric car has over ICE vehicles especially in the quality of life. In Australia in Summer school pick ups sees lines of various sized SUVs pumping out Diesel/Petrol Fumes with the driver sitting inside oblivious in A/C comfort not noticing the kids lined up waiting getting pollution and heat to comfort them.
Hi Ryan, In the video you say you got around 140 miles with the 2018 Leaf but I regularly get 140 miles range in this weather with my Hyundai Ionic Electric. The Ionic has a 28 kWh battery and the 2018 Leaf has 40 kWh battery. This doesn't make the new Leaf seem very efficient. Also the Leaf's e-peddle seems to work "almost" like the Ionic's Level 3 regen with 'Auto Hold' on. I've never had a problem with multiple rapid charging as the Ionic has a proper battery temperature management system. I think the Hyundai Kona or next year's bigger battery Ionic would be worth trying before you buy a 2018 Leaf. I always like watching your videos. Keep up the good work.
I reckon the car looks ok certainly better than than the last one. I had the previous one on demo for a week and quite liked it apart from the range with the 24kw battery. The lack of adjustment of the steering wheel is a pest though. What spec level was this ?
Would there be a good market for an after-market Leaf 40kW battery cooling system? Are the existing 40kw's fan cooled or just passive cooling when the car is moving? Could someone make a high-volume airflow system to supplement what they already have?
I have held off on my purchase of the 2018 Leaf. Partly because of rapidgate but also because I wonder of the 2019 6oKW Leaf with it's battery management system may force down the price of the 2018 version. What are your thoughts?
I think the Rapidgate issue is overblown. Obviously it would be better without it, but other vloggers on here have indicated that you should be able to get atleast 2 back to back rapid charges before it starts noticeably slowing down. If you charge your car the night before you go on your road trip, then unplug and let it cool down before you start your trip, you could then potentially get 3x discharges before rapidgate kicks in? (ie 3 discharges with 2 rapid charges in the middle?). If you're getting a minimum of 110 miles out of each (80%) charge, that's 330 miles driving - minimum. In hours that's probably 5 - 6 hours driving. How many of us do that much driving in one go (or more), without a significant rest stop? It's a shame it doesn't have active cooling, but I wouldn't pay, for example, £10k more for the 60Kwh with active cooling.
Chris B Judging by some of the standard responses to the suggestion that one stops to sniff the roses whilst charging (as it were), there would appear to be a significant proportion of the population who drive 500 miles non-stop on an almost daily basis.
What do you do if you want to buy a Nissan Leaf but you live in a flat with no garage or off street parking available where you can have a home charger installed
Andrew Walker you have to rely on local infrastructure. Many people do but it’s very location specific and hinges on charger availability and convenience to you. For arguments sake, if you bought the 40kwh Leaf and did 150 miles a week then one rapid charge a week when out probably wouldn’t be any issue but you wouldn’t want to stop for 30 mins every day on the way home from work to charge!
140 real world range for 40 kWh is an avg of 3.5 mi/kWh. I am happy and lucky to have an Ioniq EV which can get 140 max with 28 kWh yet charges quicker with active cooling
Great review,thank you. I was already well on the way to becoming completely EV brainwashed and your chanel brings huge clarity to all the issues those thinking about going over to the dark side have to consider. Having previously owned Nissan cars, I have a positive opinion of the brand and when I go EV I think the Leaf will be the one for me. I agree it does seem to represent good value for money,if there is such a thing with cars. Oh,Rapidgate; really appreciate your comprehensive explanation of the issues around it. Off to view your other vids now. Cheers!
I'm surprised you didn't mention the weird extra loud noise from wing mirrors, and absence of reach on the steering wheel (I'm 6 foot 4 so was ok for a test drive but not sure if I'd feel comfortable for long journeys). Whilst not necessarily deal breakers, that was instantly weird and noticeable when I test drove one, so made me wonder if I'd want to actually put up with it. Maybe, or maybe not
Aleksandr Vysockij I didn’t notice the reach issue with the steering wheel but I have since got annoyed with the Centre console rubbing against my knee!
Colin Overton if you mean the 40kwh one I tested on here then it was during the very hot spell we have had. Every day was between 25 and 30 degrees Celsius (hot for the U.K.!) so the figures I mention incorporate that 😁👍
I've had a 2018 leaf for the last 3 months putting 4k miles on it. I was gutted when I found about rapidgate, news of which broke literally a few days before I took delivery. Being a first time EV driver I was very worried about the impact of this on my driving. I do feel like nissan misled us early adopters as I researched quite extensively before jumping in, and found no mention of this feature (or lack of feature) anywhere. Its a definite downside and i'm glad I'm on a lease rather than buying. Reality is, for me at least is that rapidgate has only been an issue once so far. This involved a journey to London from the Wirral, returning the next day. The trip down was 1 rapid charge - painless. The return needed 2, and the second of these was so slow that in the 45 minutes which ecotricity allow, the indicated range was borderline to make it home (2-3 miles leeway). Slipstreaming a lorry at 60mph saw us improve the margin and made it home with 30 miles spare. If you don't often make 250 mile journeys, don't even worry about rapidgate, just be aware of it. My normal commute doesn't require any extra planning, I simply plug the car in at home overnight, and I need to do it every other night to do my 30 mile each way commute. Longer trips take planning, and I am still learning to do this.
Peter Corlett I’m glad it hasn’t caused you too many issues but for me you are exactly the customer who Nissan should be compensating as you didn’t have all the facts when you bought it.
I foresee a class action suit, on behalf of every1 who was deceived. Honestly, this was a problem, as far back as the 1st generation battery, which was only a 24 kilowatt/hour. There's been 2 upgrades, since then. The 30, & now the 46 kilowatt/hour battery. There's no excuse why this has not only been not disclosed, but should've just simply been fixed, with active thermal management, in 1 of the upgrades.
Ha, I wouldn't want the throw away the baby with the bathwater. Really - the good points are so good they outweigh any bad ones, and the only downside for me is that rapid charging on the move isn't quite as slick, easy and effective as a traditional fuel pump. - Once the industry figure out that side of things, I'm totally on board big time. Also, I didn't mention this in my other comment as it wasn't relevant, but we do keep a "real" car too, and for the foreseeable future, we will keep one electric and one petrol car for this exact reason. I think this is a sensible way to do things if you are a 2 car family and want to give electric a try. I didn't intend to do our london trip in the leaf, but the day before I had injured my left leg and couldn't operate the clutch. That london trip remains the only time in 3.5 months I've had to rapid charge at all.
I think the problem is consumers don’t understand the system. Batteries, just like a CPU in a computer, have a maximum temperature they can be operated at, and as that temperature is approached, the system will throttle power. In order to delay the throttling, either a CPU or Battery can use active cooling instead of passive cooling. My Apple iPad has passive cooling, and works fine most of the time, but if I use it in 40c environment, it will throttle. But Apple has determined that most customers will use their iPad in a temperature controlled environment. Nissan has determined that most of its customers will charge at home, but have made a provision to rapid charge. If you live in a hot sunny climate, and insist on a dark color with black interior and must park your car outside in direct sunlight and need to rapid charge each day for your daily commute, the Leaf is probably not for you. But for 99% of the buyers, the 2018 Leaf is a significant improvement over earlier Leaf, which did not have a proper BMS, and allowed the owner to fry the battery. I’ve bought an iPad mini 1, 2, and 4, just like many leaf owners bought the 24, 30 and now 40. I’m not demanding active thermal management on my iPad, and the satisfied Leaf owners aren’t demanding it on their Leaf. Those few who had a Leaf and it wasn’t capable of their needs, may be satisfied with the 60 kWh. Leaf is starting at midrange and trying to make better cars for the same price, while Tesla started at an unaffordable price and is slowly trying to make cheaper cars, but so far, the cheapest car Tesla sells new, cost $49,000. The 2018 Leaf starts at $30,000. I think Nissan Leaf will sell the 60 kWh version starting at $35,000 before Tesla offers a $35,000 new car.
IMHO and like iPads and technology expectations are moving rapidly forwards. I think the main problem is the direct comparison with ICE vehicles. People rightly expect to be able to drive a car the same no matter what the power train.
FDK, Nissan did alleviate the main problem, which was programming the BMS to allow the owner to destroy the battery prematurely. Nissan could have opted to offset that with active thermal management, but they didn’t. So for people who use the leaf as intended, it’s going to last a long time. While there are a lot of people whining about it, most 2018 leaf owners are unaffected and pleased with their vehicle. It’s not for everyone, but then again, even a Tesla isn’t for everyone.
Nissan opted for the cheap and naive solution instead of the correct solution and that came back and bit them in the end. Every competitor car that have a proper active BMS are beating them. The IONIQ for example is a far better choice than the LEAF despite having a smaller battery because of the active temperature control it outperforms the LEAF. Nissan is supposed to be the leader in the market but things like this really bring them down.
FDK, the Ioniq looks better on paper, but apparently Nissan customers believe Nissan makes a better car. The Ioniq does charge faster, but it’s got a 28 kWh battery. The Nissan Leaf has a 40 kWh battery, and can cover a much bigger radius without needing to charge. Anyone buying a leaf that needs daily fast charging has purchased the wrong car, and Nissan’s solution was to provide a car that can go further on a charge. GM did the same thing. They had the Spark EV with a very powerful but tiny 20 kWh battery with super cooling. It could charge to 80% in 20 minutes. The Bolt used a low power battery with simple cooling and it cannot charge to 80% in 20 minutes, but it can add almost the same range as the Spark EV in 20 minutes, with the added capability of slow charging up to 238 miles range. If you look at the 24 kWh Leaf range, and run the 40 kWh Leaf the same way, just adding 20 kWh with fast charging, it will normally accept that at the same rate as the 24 kWh battery would, but has the advantage of being able to charge to 40 kWh at home, on cheaper electricity. The eNV200 40 kWh battery does have active thermal management. The question is how much did that cost, and why did Nissan elect not to include that in the 2018 Leaf. So far Nissan has not allowed any of their engineers to speak, only the PR and accountants. But so far the Leaf is still the best selling EV in the world, and after all the incentives are gone, Nissan can still make a profitable car people can afford, long after Tesla has gone bankrupt.
This car would do everything I ever need. Except it doesn’t tow a caravan very well. PHEV Outlander for me next as a second car. Keeping my trusty 24kwh Tekna Leaf though 👍😜
Ryan, you seemed happy with the 140 mile range; but I think you should have been disappointed because at the beginning it showed 170 mile range. Great video though!
I ordered my 40kWh Leaf on January 2nd. I'm retired and wanted it to travel long distances with successive rapid charges in UK and on the continent. Had Nissan told me before I bought it about the charge throttling at 60% and when the battery is hot, I would have waited for the 60kWh version with battery temperature management. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. The car itself is great, but #rapidgate ruins it for me. I fully understand I'm in a minority but it IS a significant minority. In my view, Nissan were dishonest in their advertising. How does one read the manual before buying the car?
Nigel Wickenden, I foresee a class action suit, on behalf of you, & many others, who were also deceived. Honestly, this was a problem, as far back as the 1st generation battery, which was only a 24 kilowatt/hour. There's been 2 upgrades, since then. The 30, & now the 40 kilowatt/hour battery. There's no excuse why this has not only been not disclosed, but should've just simply been fixed, with active thermal management, in 1 of the upgrades.
websaint, no. If you go to a gym, & burn out, that's because you're out of shape. That's got nothing to do with the gym membership. In fact, that's the reason for the gym membership. Nissan is selling the Leaf, as a long range vehicle, & not informing buyers of the caveat of #Rapidgate. That is a direct miss representation of THEIR product.
websaint, yes, but that's in a week. We're talking about road trips like, 800 kilometers, in a day. Like has been said, here, already, for most people, like yourself, who only drives 120 kilometers per day, that's o.k. I'd you're happy with that, that's fine, too. But if that's all that it was meant for, then it should've been marketed as a city car. That's not "do anything".
Nice video, I like the honesty. The drone shots were a really cool detail too. One thing strikes me though. You say the seats are good. I tried one here in Denmark, and I just had to get in the car, to realize I will never buy it. The seats are way to short and offers me no support for my legs. Since with my 180 cm I am pretty average. Are you a short person ? To be honest except the Quashqai, the seat problem seems to be an issue in most Nissan cars, at least here in Denmark. Maybe you have other seats in the UK, but I doubt it. Rapidgate would never be an issue for me, since after 30 miles I would run away from the car screaming ;) The Ioniq have way better seats, and with the Kona and Niro comming up, I would choise one of them. Keep up the good work :)
CAC that’s interesting and you aren’t the only one to comment on the seats. I didn’t have any issues with them but I guess we are all built differently 🤔. I’m 5’9” tall. Lots of great cars coming in the next 12 months which only means better choice and more competition. Hopefully we as consumers will benefit 😁👍
I don’t think I’d be to affected by #Rapidgate either as my daily miles are likely to be under 30 most days, and longer journeys which we do rarely are unlikely to be over 150-200 miles. I had all the knowledge when I test drove & subsequently ordered the new leaf. Now is the anti climate of the 5 month wait for delivery.
After I bought an 2013 leaf, I had a chance to test ride the new leaf. Many items almost the same, many improvements. I could imagine to swap to the new one if my present one reached his lifetime end and I could afford a new one. With the exception of the battery the old leaf is a very reliable car and seems not to produce high maintenance or repair costs. If the battery is worn out I can decide to replace it and have a good car for long time again. If I decide to swap to the new leaf I will have a new car with a longer range but with almost the same battery technology as my leaf. And at this point I don't understand why Nissan, who sold the most ev's ever (before tesla)set on the same technology. They collected terabytes of battery data from the users by the tcu. Is it why they want to save costs? A water cooling infrastructure is just build in for the motor and motor electronics. Why not for the battery? Why not install simple tubes and hoses inside the battery and connect it to the existing system? Radiator, pump and collector is just present!
I’ll probably wait for the 60 kWh I have to drive to Edinburgh from Colchester where I’m based quite often, most weekends to be honest. I’ve got the 30 kWh now and I still make the drive but it takes sooo long to get to Edinburgh haha.
Keep 12v battery charged if car left for a while with a solar panel battery trickle charger costing £25 from Halfords. Plugs in to point under dashboard.
Nice impartial video Glyn. I do think Nissan have handled RapidGate poorly. They knew all along the car had limitations, but spent a good while pretending it was just a small number of vehicles with faults, rather than acknowledging they had hobbled the charging because they'd gone cheap on thermal management. It's such a pity, as they fitted it to the eNV200 40kWh model. I really want to like the Leaf, but we do a fairly regular trip to southern France, so need an EV that can charge consistently on rapids. What was your miles per kWh? You mention getting 140 miles on your charge. That seems quite low; we have a 41kWh Zoe and at the moment see nothing less than 180 on a charge and have been getting over 200 for the past month. That's with a similar mix of driving as you did. It sounds like the Leaf is a bit thirsty? What do you think?
Mike Winter sounds like the new Leaf isn’t for you with that trip to France. I was holding off giving a miles per kWh until it goes back to get a good average. At the moment I’m on 3.9.
Hi Ryan, nice video as always. I've got to say if you buy a new Nissan leaf in 2018 you've got to expect in 2019 it will seem old and less relevant. 2019 will see the launch of several newer and probably better EVs with much better range. I'd be concerned about the 140mile range just making the leaf a poor investment financially.
yes thats so true, its hard to spend good money for a ev when it will depreciate so fast due to better tech/rage/price on upcoming evs in the next few years.
'Investment' is the wrong way to look at it. It's an *expense* for a service, and that service is *transport*. If the cost, amortised over the time you own the car, is cheaper than the alternatives, it's a wise decision. If not, it's not. And leasing isn't always a better option... unless you're getting a new car every few years, in which case you need to ask yourself why you think that's appropriate or socially responsible.
No more fuel and no more oil change , now that is a good point you forgot to say. That make you save around 4000$ every year. Electric motor dont need much care so you save on that. No water and no exhaust pipe il a lot better too.
For local use and the occasional road trip the LEAF is perfect, but when it comes to long distance travel, the Ionic has been proven to be a better vehicle. Moreover, I would think the Kona EV would also be an option for long distance travel, as the 60kWh LEAF if it ever arrives. Cheers from Arizona, USA.
Looking at all the EVs on the market, I wonder if it would make more sense for the manufacture to state the minimum distance the car can drive under the most unfavorable conditions. It would give me a peace of mind know that I can go in EV for 200km under any conditions even though the maximum range could be 400km.
Aliaksei Ivanov I agree with you in theory but any test that puts an end figure as a result is open to interpretation. Just look at the emissions issue! We just need consistency. We all know the mpg advertised by manufacturers is never right but we have learnt over time to adjust this. If we can find and stick to a EV range test then we will learn what it means in the real world.
They can do threw simple test drives from 100% charge to 0%: 1. Motorway drive at 120 kmh in winter at around - 20 c. 2. Motorway at 120 kmh in hot condition at around +20c. 3. Roads in the mountains. Then pick up the worst result. If a car can do 200km in all three scenarios, it can do 200 anywhere.
Great video review. Nissan are a joke by training to justify rapidgate by saying it's mentioned in the manual. People who put down a deposit and buy the car wouldn't have had access to the manual until they took delivery. The fact it's in the manual is irrelevant, they should be informing users so they are completely clear before they take a single penny.
sorphin, how many times have you read the car manual before buying a new car? Perhaps never, like most of us! I have not done it myself and some manuals are terribly long making it practically impossible. BUT I have definitely seen and read many reviews before buying a new car.
"I wasn't expecting to like it as much." Yup. Right there with you 😂.
Great, great review - thank you! I realize this is 4 years old, and I only watched it now. But in particular, I appreciate the way you first explained rapidgate, then evaluated its impact from your POV and landed on it having no real impact. I drive a 2019 Nissan Leaf Plus (62 kWh battery), and our longest road trips are about 350 - 400 km in a day. That’s within the range of the car as it’s got the bigger battery pack, but usually we stop to quick charge once if not twice sometimes given the opportunity, if we make a lunch stop or so. Thus far rapidgating has never been an issue for us. But it depends on the length of trips you do, as you explained. If I drove 600 km in a day on a hot day, it would surely be an issue I’d notice.
We have had our Leaf for a few weeks now. initially, the E-Pedal was a bit odd to get used to (the first few times driving). Now, I have found it makes driving easier, especially in town. I find myself allowing it to slow myself down on hills and finding places to allow it to engage to optimize mileage. Implementing it in stop-and-go downtown driving makes it a pleasure. I very much enjoy driving it now
CLPRPSD it definitely takes some getting used to. Having driven the new Leaf for a week my 24kwh one feels like it has no regen when I lift off. Before I thought it was quite strong!!
EV Opinion it does take some getting used to...do you notice that, when you need to apply the brakes, there seems to be a slight gap where the e-pedal seems to stop and the braking takes over. Hard to explain, but it's similar to being in a stick shift and, when using the engine to slow down, you push in the clutch just before you hit the brakes.
Brilliant video. Positive too. I thought the same before I bought mine. Works for my journeys 100% of the time. 4 months in no regrets.
Anthony Palmer great news 😁👍
Listened to so many of your vids over last couple of months so THANK YOU! Today I bought my first EV, a 2018 Nissan Leaf and your advice over the whole decision process has been invaluable :) Cheers from Australia!
Thank you very much. I live in the great state of Colorado, USA, so I often cover 200 miles or more in a day. This could still be a viable option for me.
Greetings from Las Vegas, Nevada, Great Video! looking into buying one and your video helped tremendously! Cheerio!!
Mine has been perfect but the longest journey I've done was to Fully Charge Live from Liverpool (around 160 miles). I rapid charged twice, both quite early, and had no issues but the M6 had lots of 50mph restricted zones. The second charge was to get me a fair way home before I needed to charge again. Stopped around Coventry, rapid charged for 40 minutes, while I ate some food, and got home with about 12 miles to spare. I did do 70, where possible, on the way home because it was getting late and I was confident no more stops were needed.
You can manage the temperature by charging slightly earlier (say 15-20% left) and driving slower - Lemon Tea Leaf has some good tips.
All in all, no issues at all. Way better than my previous 22Kw Zoe.
Another great video, Ryan. You give a good objective view of the car. We test drove it a few weeks ago, but we found the seats pretty uncomfy, unfortunately - even on a small test drive around the locality of the dealer. But we did love what the car could do and how it felt, especially the e-pedal. Although #rapidgate is not an issue for us either, there's the feeling that, due to the charging issues, there may well be more depreciation if you were to buy new. We've since bought an Ioniq and I'm finding that on max regen, it's not so different from the e-pedal, except for not coming to a complete stop. I think for someone who's not driving up and down the country every week, the Leaf's a great car still.
David Dupplaw the Ioniq is a great car. Interestingly I found the seats comfortable. I had the Technik which has leather seats. Did you have the same?
EV Opinion We were taken around in the demo car which I think was an n-connect. I didn't find them too bad, but my wife, who has hip arthritis, found the padding at the sides of the seats too narrow.
Ryan - this was a great honest review. It appears that despite the battery issues, you really like the Leaf, and would really appreciate the added range the 40 kWh battery has to offer. Your climate is a good match for the non-thermally managed battery, and it appears that the 2018 model could fit into your life. However, if you could swing it, I think you would appreciate the range of the 60 kWh battery once that’s available, especially considering that your next car purchase is to replace a petrol car. Pushing the range out to 200+ miles would cover 100% of your typical travels nicely. The only question would then be - is the 60 kWh battery too heavy? I’d hold off until you’re able to test the 60 kWh car and decide for yourself if the added cost and weight is worth it.
Dennis Lyon very sensible advice. Something tell me there may be some deals before the end of the year😁👍
Great video, loved the scenery shots, I travel 200 miles about once a month in my 2018 Leaf, it just requires a 30-minute Motorway stop to recharge to 80% battery as you highlighted. I don't think you should hesitate to purchase one.
Rapidgate may be a problem if you want 2 or more full charges but thats some mileage in a day
Paul Humphries thank you. It’s nice to hear from people with real experience 😁👍
+ Paul Humphries, "Lemon-Tea-Leaf" here on u-Tube has a video of his trip from Scotland down to Silverstone (for the FullyCharged EV live event), detailing his battery management method. In essence, keep the charge over 20% (below that the rapid charge will really heat up the battery from the start), then the charge up to about 80% will be at quite a high rate. Allow the car to 'stand' for 5 or 10 minutes to cool the battery before beginning the charge, as that will allow for a higher charge rate, and allow 5 or 10 minutes before driving off (again, to allow the battery to cool after the rapid charge), so the battery does not build up heat incrementally. If you watch his video it does make sense, just a matter of understanding what is happening.
As an after thought, If you have a petrol car stuck in very heavy traffic, on a Very HOT day, so no air-flow to cool the engine, IT TO will overheat! Funny thing though, an EV in those conditions probably won't?
I am looking at getting an '18 Leaf next year, and "RAPIDGATE" does not worry me. A matter of understanding and planning.
Thanks to EV Opinion for an honest evaluation. Most helpful to get a wide range of views!
Con Cahill: Thanks for the information, the problem as I see it is, when I am doing a 200 mile journey I am meeting business clients, so I have to have a meeting time and sometimes the motorway services just aren't in the appropriate place to match the state of the battery to achieve LemonTeas plan, if you're driving for pleasure, I am sure it's not a problem.
+Paul Humphries, I can see your point. Other than getting a Tesla (regardless of which model :-), the 'greenest' alternative would be one of the new generation of PHEVs that reportedly have an EV range of up to 30 miles (as opposed to the 13-16 of the first generation). I would have said the Ampera, but I believe it has been dropped by Vauxhall.
This is just musing here, but I wonder if in the future meetings might be arranged so that attenedees picked a venue equidistant from the furthest 2 people, so hopefully nobody goes further than a full charge away, and all can re-charge during the meeting. Admittedly, that will fall apart, if the meeting is required to be about the venue or it's use, (you can't move a factory production-line for a meeting, after all). Then again, if Elon Musk's idea of a long distance transportation system ever arrives (the one where you park, and your car drops below the road on a lift, then joins a train of other cars in the tunnel to the next city), range will be less of an issue.
I own a 2018 Leaf and I LOVE it. Very well put together, interior is of excellent quality and the materials although not flashy - are of a very high quality. The electric range is excellent, it has respectable amount of power and torque. 100% electric and ePedal is amazing, it makes a big difference for me. What you will quickly learn is you never need to use the brake, and on top of this you brake pads and rotors will last a long, long time - bringing down cost of ownership. The rapid charge gate stuff is overblown IMHP, unless you do cross country trips weekly; for me a single charge can last 4 days easily.
AlphaMatt Fitness zu
My 'regular'long journey is from mid Cheshire to Somerset. It was a challenge for the LEAF24 but the LEAF40 handles it with ease. 1 stop (M5 Gloucester services) for 45 mins for a meal (used to stop there anyway in the hybrid) gives me enough to reach my destination.
Graham Millman dunno how far that is but, when i do my normal road travels i go 300-400km in one go then 15-30 minute stop and continue onwards if i need to travel 800-1000 km.
3-4 hours driving without a break sounds unsafe...
WanderingDutchman not if you are below 60 years of age and somewhat healthy. My father that is 65 can drive for 4-5h straight, which he needs sometimes due to he is involved in racing here in Sweden.
heck the only time i needed a break was in my old cars without air con, anything over 2h was really a hassle for me 😅 and those without power steering AND air con i felt 1,5h was my max before i needed fresh air 🤣
however i understand if some people don't deem themselves fit enough to drive more than 2h. but imo most cars from 2010 and onwards are a breeze compared to the 80's.
Nice unbiased review. I knew about rapidgate before buying my leaf and even more so than yourself knew it was never going to be an issue for me (the furthest I've driven in the last decade is about 140 miles, easily doable on a single charge or stopping for one rapid to be safe). I do think Nissan should have been upfront about it and i would still like to see them bring out a firmware change allowing you to override the slowdown very occasionally (even for just 25% charge, that might be all you need to get home).
If I had to guess I think they left out active cooling on the 40kwh to allow them to hit a low price point. This will allow them to truly differentiate it from the 60kwh version when it comes out. They will start to market the 40kwh as the "cheap" short ranged version that will suit most people and the 60kwh as the "long range" version for heavy commuters. This will let them justify a much higher price tag.
Ross McMillan a
Lemon tea leaf used leaf spy to monitor how the state of charge affects the battery temperature and concluded that the 40kw leaf should always be rapid charged before the state of charge drops below 25 percent on any road trip that requires three rapid charge stops.
also highlighted that Nissan possibly based info on lower speed roads in japan and not the 70mph the rest of the world does!
Hi Ryan, a very balanced video. I have a 30Kw Leaf on pcp expiring Oct next year. I have up to now, always thought I would progress to the 60Kw Leaf. However, your video has made me think twice, as I too would rarely want to rapid charge more than once on any of my occasional long journeys. When the time comes to change, I suspect there will be some very attractive deals for the 40Kw Leaf and a long lead time for the 60Kw Leaf.
The 2019 60kWh LEAF has TM.
I've been wanting to buy a leaf for almost 10 years now. When Nissan finally puts a competitve battery in one, I'll be all in
Great vid, keep them coming. Admittedly the new Leaf hasn't grabbed me like some other EVs for many of the reasons you've outlined in your review. That said you've demonstrated that you don't really know until you've tried it out. I'm still on the hunt for a 1st gen Leaf which really appeals to me but if I was considering a new car the new Kona could be up there!
Just ordered my Tekna leaf today, can't wait. Like you rapidgate is not a issue, and i dont think its really a issue for most people when they sit and think about it, how often do you drive +300 miles in a day, even on holiday.
fulmarmedia every time we go on holiday to be honest which is why this can only ever be a second car for us. We're currently on holiday in France. It was a 10 hour drive just to get to Portsmouth so a leaf just wouldn't work for our holidays. Routine day to day stuff yes but not holidays
Well documented on the new nissan leaf! I found the handling of the car to be sooo much better than the last! I wouldn't mind one but the fear of rapid gate kicking in worries me for my journeys.
At approx 65% charge or more and high temperature 36-40 degrees the charge rate may throttle back to 22kw so a old model leaf may charge faster than the new model.
I'm a new subscriber and I have been enjoying your opinions on various EV topics. Especially the videos on deciding on replacing a second ICE vehicle. I did consider the 2018 Leaf and entertained the thought of a used Tesla (briefly), but we just bought a 2018 Kia Soul EV. I really love driving it! There are pros and cons but the pros outweighed the cons for my family. I bought it based on longer range than our current Leaf, price (cheaper than a Leaf), the driving experience and the need to fit 3 kids (ages 9-15) in the back and they do, comfortably. I also love that the regenerative braking (B mode) is aggressive enough that it's almost one pedal driving. So, what have you decided? You looked so happy in the Model S.
Wow. Your videos keep getting better and better. I finally got the chance to go see the new Nissan Leaf at the local dealer.
I really wanted to like it but although it makes sense in many ways I just couldn’t get fired up about it. It would be ok if it were a cheaper car but at €30,000 AFTER government grants, I just cannot seriously consider it.
Eric Wadge thank you for your kind comments and I think you hit the nail on the head. For the right money it would be great but it doesn’t have that appeal factor!
Nissan have been saying recently they are going to recondition older batteries to make up 40Kwt+ packs and sell them at cheaper rates than brand new ones.
So if you have an older model Leaf, you'll be able to upgrade the battery packs for new or recon ones. I pressume they will upgrade the software too, so technically speaking older cars will always be more or less up to date with new cars.
Great review too!!
Hi there, I have had my 2nd gen Leaf since early March. Done just under 5000 trouble free miles so far.
I live in Buckingham and have travelled to Blackburn and back in one day on multiple occasions. Only once having had my rapid charge throttled where I was restricted to 20kw.
As you fairly pointed out in your video, Nissan should have been clearer and the response was inadequate to say the least, especially as there are so many electric vehicles comming to market soon (Kona).
Great car if you don't travel 300 miles per day, and how many of us do that, really?
Well balanced and enjoyable video.
Jus
Collected my Leaf last Thu and I love it. Having a battery cooling would be a nice plus but it's nowhere a deal breaker for me or for the most of the drivers around. Unless you are a racer or a long range commuter - issue with an overheating battery is not a problem. Also as a driver, you can manage the temps if you are going to drive 300+ miles in a single day. It's an excellent car and an ePedal is the best feature of this car, it makes driving so much more comfortable, stress free and actually safe (it encourages you not to speed). Lots of tech toys, build quality, quietness in the cabin, performance of the engine, etc - it just the best available EV in the market today in terms of price & availability.
Ioniq seems to be a nice car, but it looks and feels like a sub €20k car with a sophisticated battery. A driver needs a car not a battery :). Said that, I owned a Hyundai car before and I find them very reliable, however the build quality may likely result in rattles and squeaks. Major problem with Ioniqs is availability and I hope Hyundai sorts this out in future, however it doesn't seem to be the case for the moment.
Thanks for an honest review!
Said Babayev thank you for taking the time to comment. I’m glad my findings match that of someone who has owned one. I agree that the Hyundai would be more successful if they had produced enough to meet demand but sadly that isn’t the case at the moment.
Hyundai has increased the production of the Ioniq EV from around 1000 a week to 1800 a week earlier this year. Planned production for 2018 is just under 50000 Ioniq EVs. It is not enough to meet demand, a demand that is growing as the car is made available in more countries, but it is a good step in the right direction.
Sadly the rest of the Hyundai / Kia EVs seems to have similar low production volumes making the total pure EV production number from the group just around 100000 for 2018.
The interesting thing is that Kia seems more interested in producing EVs, as the NIRO EV will be built in greater numbers than the Kona. I would not be surprised if the updated Soul EV set to launch later this year, same platform and technology as the Kona, will outsell its sister from Hyundai in 2019.
But why did they compromise on cooling system for such a small saving and significant limitation for at least some?
Also this epedal thing? You mean 4 years behind the BMW i3?
I drive the i3 and whilst I have on occasion with a blue moon rising touched the brake - this is less than 0.1% of the drive time and certainly constitutes from what I can see same as the e-pedal.
e pedal schmee-pedal....what an overhyped BS
Said Babayev... Hi man congratulations!!! I just one question, if somebody car theft your car and police found but with out battery pack and just for example you don't have insurance for theft... For how much you Nissan sell new battery pack??? And just one more how much is capacity drop per cycling(4 years for example ) charging discharging
Had an Ioniq on 24 HR test, absolutely superb machine, better performance, better range, better charge rates than the leaf by miles....that all said, I still went for a 41Kwh Zoe as I really needed the range, which incidentally is a real world 200 miles during this lovely heat wave. Had the Ioniq been the 60Kwh it would be sitting on my drive.
Very honest review, thank you.
Went to the dealer a couple of months ago, wanted to do an extended test drive since Nissan on it's website says I can. Dealership refused (not that I asked to take the car at the spot. I only wanted it in the weekend when they couldn't drive it themselves anyway). Anyway, got a short test drive. First question: where is the speed limiter. Salesguy says he doesn't know. I'm the first to ask. He's surprised to find out it doesn't have one. Major let down for me since my entire economical driving style today balances on the limiter being there. The subwoofer in the back on the Tekna is also a big mistake and makes it impossible to get the optional partitioning for the boot so you get level loading. And then we learned last winter that due to the lack of active thermal management you lose a big chunck of your range on cold winter days. Enough to make it impossible for me to drive the distance home-work-home. Something that is perfectly possible 9 months a year, the other 3 I would need to potentially find a way to charge while at work.
I was excited for the Leaf 2.zero and while it looks great (honestly, most people don't want a car that screams EV all over it) it's been a big disappointment for me. If it didn't have so many small annoyances I probably would have ordered mine already. Now I'm waiting for the other manufacturers. And maybe for Nissan if they solved most of those smaller issues on the 2019 model.
Very honest review. You describe what I think. I also do about 240 max miles on occasions. I kept my zafira with 7 seats for room and mileage, but my nissan 30kwh leaf for smaller trips. Tbh, I am trying to find the balance of owning 1 car to replace both. As I drive 90% mostly leaf all year, it makes sense. It's a little headache though as I can't replace my zafira with anything as solid or size. It's just an amazing car, with great sports looks too. I'm looking at the leaf and mg at the sec, but need to be certain before I fully commit. My issue is that you want the best at the lowest possible price. It's pointless saying I could get a particular car that costs 40grand plus, as trying to recover that extra money in savings would take years, even running the 2 cars that I'd already paid for, so no finance
Really helpful Ryan. I've got a day long test drive in 2 weeks when we get back from France. Looking forward to it now
I just figured out that I was traveling 119 miles on a daily basis to work and returning to home with no side trips. This card would have worked beautifully as a daily commuter and I could have just charged at home.
Basically as a *used* car, it's a 100-mile range EV, which is fine for most journeys in the UK.
If you have a daily round-trip commute of more than 90 miles, look elsewhere because it might not do it in winter (or in wet conditions).
Great video as always :) I liked most of the new Leaf but hated the analogue speedo and the old bits from the old leaf
12.000 Km with my Leaf so far, overall happy with it, but not so happy about the ergonomics in general. Middle console touching my knees, blind-spot caused by the rear view mirror, lack of space for the passenger feet under the front seats. Rapidgate not an issue for me but the lack of TMS does worry me purely from a resale value and battery longevity. Pro pilot works somehow but I am not a big fan of it, I would even say that I bought my Leaf in spite of it.
I love you Ryan.
You have the best presenting skills on RUclips.
I want you presenting top gear.
Excellent review as always - very balanced. I fully agree with your main conclusions that for many, the Rapidgate issue will not be too big an issue because they will rarely need to do more than 2 rapid charges in a single day. However, Nissan were utterly wrong in my opinion to not make this evident in information they make available before purchase. However in many respects this is an excellent car, and very much to the point is available fairly quickly, which regrettably other vehicles are not. It's also true that whilst the Kona is attractive in many ways, it is a smaller vehicle that nobody has yet had the opportunity to drive. The 39 kW Kona is also shorter in length than the Nissan and has much slower acceleration. True, the 64 KW version is very quick but more expensive and nobody really knows when it will be available even to test drive, let alone purchase.
Excellent review. Thank you for all of that information.
I got the chance to drive one of these recently. Very nice car. Smooth, quiet, quick. All good really.
as honest and as unbiased a report as anybody could wish for, only thing i would have added is the bloody console digging into my leg and the awful colour of my car (flame red) apart from that, really enjoying it..
That awful console was a major reason along with the uncertainty of how Rapid gate would impact on resale values having been scorched by Dieselgate to the tune of £2500 already even though I drove a Honda!
gary williams good news and yes, after a few more days I have noticed the console rubbing my leg!
gary williams . the console is so bad. if it was not a new car , i would take a hacksaw to the damn tacky, unnecessary thing. i didn't notice it in the test drive. My bad.
Great video again I think you have proved a car of this range in the UK will cover the vast majority of drivers needs, especially with at it capable of at least one rapid charge after setting off with a full battery. It's well past my bladder range! I wonder why the heat of the battery is not used to supplement the car heater? In an ice car when you have been caught in a mega cue on a hot day who hasn't had the wit to switch on the heater and suffer to stop the car over heating?
So how come no one is not really showing Kia Soul Electric and the Volkswagen e-Golf any attention. I'm aware that their milage is a little lower?
Not available retail due to very limited production. VW is not thermally managed either.
When I can bare to part with my Fluence the Kia soul EV is the best financial deal on the road Which is why I will order one. No-one has had a bad word about this car apart from looks which I think personally is a terrific looking car.
Great review thanks for making it. - NY State owner of the 2018 Leaf, and I purchased it knowing the charging issue. Why? Because I chose to designate it for what it's perfect for, my daily commuter car. If I have a longer trip I'll grab my Volt, or Rent an ICE from our dealer who offers $25/day vehicles. I can drive the Leaf for 4 days with my typical use before plugging in at bedtime for a recharged vehicle the next morning. Volt provides 50+ daily miles on Electric before switching to gas. Honestly have only used 18 gallons of gas in the past year on the Volt, so even it's EV range is sufficient for my family. My comments above are to remind people to be smart about why you purchase the car, if RapidGate will come into play, get something else, but otherwise this is a pretty sweet little EV. I really enjoy this new Leaf. Hoping I feel the same in a few years. 1 Plugin Hybrid, 1 EV seems to be the best overall plan for our family. Cheers
Martin Smith exactly the advice I give people. Only buy an EV if it will Work for you 😁👍
The lack of TMS Thermal Management System for the battery pack makes it a no go. Not only because issues with DC rapid charging but also the onboard chargers is too small. People want to get full speed at 11 and 22 kW AC charging stations. This will be available on the upgraded 2019 version of Nissan Leaf.
Karl Johansen let’s hope so but for some people this isn’t an issue and as I’ve said before Nissan were wrong but if the car suits your needs then buy it 👍
I thought Nissan were doing a software patch to help with the throttling when charging? If I were to want a Leaf I would wait to see if the 60kwh one turns up at the start of next year, if it has thermal management, more power and they don’t charge too much more for it Nissan will do well.
The MG4 Looks really good as it has battery temperature management.
Blue front splitter, blue rear diffuser, blue holographic front grille, and a well placed "zero emissions" badge on the rear. Not enough to show it's an EV? Also, you can option on illuminated Nissan emblem in the front if that helps your case.
I've had my 2018 Leaf for 5 months/6,000 miles, and hindsight would not change my mind. It's ~$5,000 cheaper than the Bolt and ~$15,000 cheaper than the currently available Model 3.. so it's fantastic value!
On a mile per $ metric both the Bolt and LR Model 3 are cheaper.
I will be steering clear from Nissan after my experience sadly. I like my 2012 leaf but am just sad at the battery quality. Download the manual for the 2018 and read the page EV-20 .. or just ctrl-f the term "direct sunlight" and read that page.
Good video - I have the 30kwh 2016 Leaf, on a PCP deal so goes back next year and I need to decide what I'm doing. The rapidgate made me concern about the v2, and although you're saying its not really an issue - I think it would impact resale value as others wont see it that way. By the time mine goes back the 64kwh should be available, but that for me depends on price and affordability. The 170 mile range is close to what I thought you'd get... Mine on paper is 155 miles, but get a little over 100 motorways miles (all my driving is essentially motorway), 235 mile range (on paper) - I was guessing about 180 - possibly upto 200 maybe with use of the e-pedal? - I wasn't sure how effective the e-padel was, although next to useless on motorways by all accounts!
I’m between the bolt ev and the leaf. I’m leaning more toward the bolt simply for a better interface and longer range. I think the bolt looks better from the outside but the leaf seems to be just a little better on price. If you get the chance to grab a Bolt EV, definitely post a video. New sub, thanks for the video!
Justin M great to have your sub. I wish I could get hold of a Bolt to test but unfortunately there aren’t available in the U.K.!
EV Opinion oh, dang! I’d take a right hand drive leaf over a bolt though hahaha
Justin M. if the bolt doesnt annoy you ten times a day with a lawyer type nag screen which requires your input before you drive ( every time you switch on the car) . Then buy the bolt.
James Hamilton This was fixed with the latest update I was told?? That's why I'm looking at a few EVs now.
Hi everyone. I got my new leaf two months ago and I just love it and it is a real pleasure to drive and I just love the e-Pedle
I am driving about 1000 miles a month so I am saving money on fuel...yes it will not be a car for everyone....if you can have a test drive and you will find the more you drive it the more you will love it ...
Andrew Johnston that was certainly true with my 24kwh Leaf. I bought it as a local run around and it turned into our main car!
Hi Ryan, a great review, I looked at the New Leaf before I choose which EV to buy about a month before rapid gate. I was told all the bumph by the dealer and they said easily 150 plus miles, but I must say I do prefer the Hyndia Ioniq, I'm getting 140 plus miles per domestic charge(28Kw), and so far the Ioniq has performed exceptionally well including a 210 mile trip to Newcastle Upon Tyne.
I think it's all down to personal taste in the end and what suits you and your family.
I bet though you are dying to get to try the new Kona EV?😉, perhaps you may get to also re review the Ioniq too after testing the New Leaf and compare the two?
As always a most enjoyable vlog. One thing I'd possibly consider is although you say the 40kw battery leaf will rightly cover 100% of the driving you have done in the last 3 or 4 years I wonder if it wouldn't be prudent to wait for the 60kw battery option coming out in a few months as this is rumoured to have active thermal battery management. I say this as I wonder, once that version is available, what would the resale value be for the 40kw version with no thermal battery management? I think that would certainly put a number of people off but having posed that question if you plan on keeping the 40kw version for a number of years and aren't really bothered by resale prices then... horses for courses.
L
Hi Ryan, nice video and good facts. I am not sure about 140 miles, as for the longer journey I found that doing 100 miles per charge makes your journey last longer, the lower percentage your battery is, the higher degrees it will get in the first charge and could even reach 50 degrees in the first charge... having said that, it is good for everyday driving, and my everyday driving is over 100 miles per day, for past 14 days we have done 1600 miles, and our chargers are free, however even if I used my home charger or paid for chargers that would be approximately 45€. Thats compared to diesel car same mileage we paid 223 euro. Thats a huge saving only over 2 weeks. If you need to do long long journey, hire a diesel or petrol car and do it, then continue to save with your eco friendly car ;-)
Aleksei Jusev my figures were theory based so perhaps a road trip is in order to see how it performs going to Manchester 😁👍
EV Opinion oh yeah, that will definitely show you :-) I have just finished today from 89% charge to 5% mostly on highway 100km an hour with 200km.
The vast majority use their cars to commute to work, go shopping and school runs. The 2019 Electric cars can easily do these tasks. You have the convenience of charging at home, the clean air to breath, the little to no maintenance, your brake pads lasting far longer all features ICE vehicles cannot match. I would like to see more tests commuting in traffic and the advantages an electric car has over ICE vehicles especially in the quality of life. In Australia in Summer school pick ups sees lines of various sized SUVs pumping out Diesel/Petrol Fumes with the driver sitting inside oblivious in A/C comfort not noticing the kids lined up waiting getting pollution and heat to comfort them.
If you have two (or more) cars the the Leaf is an ideal second car for your local trips whilst keeping the proper car for longer journeys.
As ever a nice balanced review.
Meanwhile in indonesia to protect a local and goverment oil company (pertamina), to get an EV licence its very hard...
Isn't there more battery degradation without the cooling system?
Hi Ryan,
In the video you say you got around 140 miles with the 2018 Leaf but I regularly get 140 miles range in this weather with my Hyundai Ionic Electric. The Ionic has a 28 kWh battery and the 2018 Leaf has 40 kWh battery. This doesn't make the new Leaf seem very efficient.
Also the Leaf's e-peddle seems to work "almost" like the Ionic's Level 3 regen with 'Auto Hold' on.
I've never had a problem with multiple rapid charging as the Ionic has a proper battery temperature management system.
I think the Hyundai Kona or next year's bigger battery Ionic would be worth trying before you buy a 2018 Leaf.
I always like watching your videos. Keep up the good work.
you should really update this even with just a bit of text to say they have fixed it rapid gate it was too conservative.
I reckon the car looks ok certainly better than than the last one. I had the previous one on demo for a week and quite liked it apart from the range with the 24kw battery. The lack of adjustment of the steering wheel is a pest though. What spec level was this ?
Would there be a good market for an after-market Leaf 40kW battery cooling system? Are the existing 40kw's fan cooled or just passive cooling when the car is moving? Could someone make a high-volume airflow system to supplement what they already have?
I have held off on my purchase of the 2018 Leaf. Partly because of rapidgate but also because I wonder of the 2019 6oKW Leaf with it's battery management system may force down the price of the 2018 version. What are your thoughts?
I think the Rapidgate issue is overblown. Obviously it would be better without it, but other vloggers on here have indicated that you should be able to get atleast 2 back to back rapid charges before it starts noticeably slowing down. If you charge your car the night before you go on your road trip, then unplug and let it cool down before you start your trip, you could then potentially get 3x discharges before rapidgate kicks in? (ie 3 discharges with 2 rapid charges in the middle?). If you're getting a minimum of 110 miles out of each (80%) charge, that's 330 miles driving - minimum. In hours that's probably 5 - 6 hours driving. How many of us do that much driving in one go (or more), without a significant rest stop? It's a shame it doesn't have active cooling, but I wouldn't pay, for example, £10k more for the 60Kwh with active cooling.
Chris B Judging by some of the standard responses to the suggestion that one stops to sniff the roses whilst charging (as it were), there would appear to be a significant proportion of the population who drive 500 miles non-stop on an almost daily basis.
Spot on review. Great work.
Tom Mackenzie thank you 😁👍
What do you do if you want to buy a Nissan Leaf but you live in a flat with no garage or off street parking available where you can have a home charger installed
Andrew Walker you have to rely on local infrastructure. Many people do but it’s very location specific and hinges on charger availability and convenience to you. For arguments sake, if you bought the 40kwh Leaf and did 150 miles a week then one rapid charge a week when out probably wouldn’t be any issue but you wouldn’t want to stop for 30 mins every day on the way home from work to charge!
140 real world range for 40 kWh is an avg of 3.5 mi/kWh. I am happy and lucky to have an Ioniq EV which can get 140 max with 28 kWh yet charges quicker with active cooling
themadjock1977 Leaf can do 180 easily.
I saw your review of the Hyundai Ioniq and this Nissan Leaf 2018. Which is a better EV car in your experience? thanks.
Great review,thank you. I was already well on the way to becoming completely EV brainwashed and your chanel brings huge clarity to all the issues those thinking about going over to the dark side have to consider. Having previously owned Nissan cars, I have a positive opinion of the brand and when I go EV I think the Leaf will be the one for me. I agree it does seem to represent good value for money,if there is such a thing with cars. Oh,Rapidgate; really appreciate your comprehensive explanation of the issues around it. Off to view your other vids now. Cheers!
Thanks for taking the time to comment and I’m really please the videos help. Good luck with your search 😁👍
I'm surprised you didn't mention the weird extra loud noise from wing mirrors, and absence of reach on the steering wheel (I'm 6 foot 4 so was ok for a test drive but not sure if I'd feel comfortable for long journeys). Whilst not necessarily deal breakers, that was instantly weird and noticeable when I test drove one, so made me wonder if I'd want to actually put up with it. Maybe, or maybe not
Aleksandr Vysockij I didn’t notice the reach issue with the steering wheel but I have since got annoyed with the Centre console rubbing against my knee!
I would be interested to know whether the recent hot spell in England caused much range degradation in your Nissan Leaf?
Colin Overton if you mean the 40kwh one I tested on here then it was during the very hot spell we have had. Every day was between 25 and 30 degrees Celsius (hot for the U.K.!) so the figures I mention incorporate that 😁👍
I've had a 2018 leaf for the last 3 months putting 4k miles on it.
I was gutted when I found about rapidgate, news of which broke literally a few days before I took delivery. Being a first time EV driver I was very worried about the impact of this on my driving.
I do feel like nissan misled us early adopters as I researched quite extensively before jumping in, and found no mention of this feature (or lack of feature) anywhere. Its a definite downside and i'm glad I'm on a lease rather than buying.
Reality is, for me at least is that rapidgate has only been an issue once so far. This involved a journey to London from the Wirral, returning the next day. The trip down was 1 rapid charge - painless. The return needed 2, and the second of these was so slow that in the 45 minutes which ecotricity allow, the indicated range was borderline to make it home (2-3 miles leeway). Slipstreaming a lorry at 60mph saw us improve the margin and made it home with 30 miles spare.
If you don't often make 250 mile journeys, don't even worry about rapidgate, just be aware of it. My normal commute doesn't require any extra planning, I simply plug the car in at home overnight, and I need to do it every other night to do my 30 mile each way commute. Longer trips take planning, and I am still learning to do this.
Peter Corlett I’m glad it hasn’t caused you too many issues but for me you are exactly the customer who Nissan should be compensating as you didn’t have all the facts when you bought it.
I foresee a class action suit, on behalf of every1 who was deceived. Honestly, this was a problem, as far back as the 1st generation battery, which was only a 24 kilowatt/hour. There's been 2 upgrades, since then. The 30, & now the 46 kilowatt/hour battery. There's no excuse why this has not only been not disclosed, but should've just simply been fixed, with active thermal management, in 1 of the upgrades.
Matthew Williams it will interesting to see what happens????
Get a real car and do away with planning. ..problems solved!
Ha, I wouldn't want the throw away the baby with the bathwater. Really - the good points are so good they outweigh any bad ones, and the only downside for me is that rapid charging on the move isn't quite as slick, easy and effective as a traditional fuel pump. - Once the industry figure out that side of things, I'm totally on board big time.
Also, I didn't mention this in my other comment as it wasn't relevant, but we do keep a "real" car too, and for the foreseeable future, we will keep one electric and one petrol car for this exact reason. I think this is a sensible way to do things if you are a 2 car family and want to give electric a try. I didn't intend to do our london trip in the leaf, but the day before I had injured my left leg and couldn't operate the clutch. That london trip remains the only time in 3.5 months I've had to rapid charge at all.
I think the problem is consumers don’t understand the system. Batteries, just like a CPU in a computer, have a maximum temperature they can be operated at, and as that temperature is approached, the system will throttle power. In order to delay the throttling, either a CPU or Battery can use active cooling instead of passive cooling.
My Apple iPad has passive cooling, and works fine most of the time, but if I use it in 40c environment, it will throttle. But Apple has determined that most customers will use their iPad in a temperature controlled environment. Nissan has determined that most of its customers will charge at home, but have made a provision to rapid charge.
If you live in a hot sunny climate, and insist on a dark color with black interior and must park your car outside in direct sunlight and need to rapid charge each day for your daily commute, the Leaf is probably not for you. But for 99% of the buyers, the 2018 Leaf is a significant improvement over earlier Leaf, which did not have a proper BMS, and allowed the owner to fry the battery.
I’ve bought an iPad mini 1, 2, and 4, just like many leaf owners bought the 24, 30 and now 40. I’m not demanding active thermal management on my iPad, and the satisfied Leaf owners aren’t demanding it on their Leaf.
Those few who had a Leaf and it wasn’t capable of their needs, may be satisfied with the 60 kWh. Leaf is starting at midrange and trying to make better cars for the same price, while Tesla started at an unaffordable price and is slowly trying to make cheaper cars, but so far, the cheapest car Tesla sells new, cost $49,000. The 2018 Leaf starts at $30,000. I think Nissan Leaf will sell the 60 kWh version starting at $35,000 before Tesla offers a $35,000 new car.
IMHO and like iPads and technology expectations are moving rapidly forwards. I think the main problem is the direct comparison with ICE vehicles. People rightly expect to be able to drive a car the same no matter what the power train.
The problem isn't that batteries get hot. The problem is that Nissan did nothing to alleviate that known problem when other car manufacturers do.
FDK, Nissan did alleviate the main problem, which was programming the BMS to allow the owner to destroy the battery prematurely. Nissan could have opted to offset that with active thermal management, but they didn’t. So for people who use the leaf as intended, it’s going to last a long time. While there are a lot of people whining about it, most 2018 leaf owners are unaffected and pleased with their vehicle. It’s not for everyone, but then again, even a Tesla isn’t for everyone.
Nissan opted for the cheap and naive solution instead of the correct solution and that came back and bit them in the end. Every competitor car that have a proper active BMS are beating them. The IONIQ for example is a far better choice than the LEAF despite having a smaller battery because of the active temperature control it outperforms the LEAF.
Nissan is supposed to be the leader in the market but things like this really bring them down.
FDK, the Ioniq looks better on paper, but apparently Nissan customers believe Nissan makes a better car. The Ioniq does charge faster, but it’s got a 28 kWh battery. The Nissan Leaf has a 40 kWh battery, and can cover a much bigger radius without needing to charge. Anyone buying a leaf that needs daily fast charging has purchased the wrong car, and Nissan’s solution was to provide a car that can go further on a charge.
GM did the same thing. They had the Spark EV with a very powerful but tiny 20 kWh battery with super cooling. It could charge to 80% in 20 minutes. The Bolt used a low power battery with simple cooling and it cannot charge to 80% in 20 minutes, but it can add almost the same range as the Spark EV in 20 minutes, with the added capability of slow charging up to 238 miles range.
If you look at the 24 kWh Leaf range, and run the 40 kWh Leaf the same way, just adding 20 kWh with fast charging, it will normally accept that at the same rate as the 24 kWh battery would, but has the advantage of being able to charge to 40 kWh at home, on cheaper electricity.
The eNV200 40 kWh battery does have active thermal management. The question is how much did that cost, and why did Nissan elect not to include that in the 2018 Leaf. So far Nissan has not allowed any of their engineers to speak, only the PR and accountants. But so far the Leaf is still the best selling EV in the world, and after all the incentives are gone, Nissan can still make a profitable car people can afford, long after Tesla has gone bankrupt.
This car would do everything I ever need. Except it doesn’t tow a caravan very well. PHEV Outlander for me next as a second car. Keeping my trusty 24kwh Tekna Leaf though 👍😜
Thing is it now has competiton, Hyundia....etc
I'm a disabled guy, war pensioner. Seriously thinking about one of these as a daily runabout.
Ryan, you seemed happy with the 140 mile range; but I think you should have been disappointed because at the beginning it showed 170 mile range. Great video though!
I ordered my 40kWh Leaf on January 2nd. I'm retired and wanted it to travel long distances with successive rapid charges in UK and on the continent. Had Nissan told me before I bought it about the charge throttling at 60% and when the battery is hot, I would have waited for the 60kWh version with battery temperature management. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. The car itself is great, but #rapidgate ruins it for me. I fully understand I'm in a minority but it IS a significant minority. In my view, Nissan were dishonest in their advertising. How does one read the manual before buying the car?
Nigel Wickenden, I foresee a class action suit, on behalf of you, & many others, who were also deceived. Honestly, this was a problem, as far back as the 1st generation battery, which was only a 24 kilowatt/hour. There's been 2 upgrades, since then. The 30, & now the 40 kilowatt/hour battery. There's no excuse why this has not only been not disclosed, but should've just simply been fixed, with active thermal management, in 1 of the upgrades.
Sounds like if I go gym and burn myself out on a treadmill I blame the gym that I couldn't work out for 2 hours as planned.
websaint, no. If you go to a gym, & burn out, that's because you're out of shape. That's got nothing to do with the gym membership. In fact, that's the reason for the gym membership.
Nissan is selling the Leaf, as a long range vehicle, & not informing buyers of the caveat of #Rapidgate. That is a direct miss representation of THEIR product.
Matthew Williams in the UK I am not aware that the Nissan LEAF is not sold as a long range vehicle. My weekly range is 120 miles so this is ok for me.
websaint, yes, but that's in a week. We're talking about road trips like, 800 kilometers, in a day. Like has been said, here, already, for most people, like yourself, who only drives 120 kilometers per day, that's o.k. I'd you're happy with that, that's fine, too. But if that's all that it was meant for, then it should've been marketed as a city car. That's not "do anything".
MAIJSN A005 with 2 seats or 4seats EV , looking for global car agency cooperation
Nice video, I like the honesty. The drone shots were a really cool detail too. One thing strikes me though. You say the seats are good. I tried one here in Denmark, and I just had to get in the car, to realize I will never buy it. The seats are way to short and offers me no support for my legs. Since with my 180 cm I am pretty average. Are you a short person ? To be honest except the Quashqai, the seat problem seems to be an issue in most Nissan cars, at least here in Denmark. Maybe you have other seats in the UK, but I doubt it. Rapidgate would never be an issue for me, since after 30 miles I would run away from the car screaming ;) The Ioniq have way better seats, and with the Kona and Niro comming up, I would choise one of them.
Keep up the good work :)
CAC that’s interesting and you aren’t the only one to comment on the seats. I didn’t have any issues with them but I guess we are all built differently 🤔. I’m 5’9” tall. Lots of great cars coming in the next 12 months which only means better choice and more competition. Hopefully we as consumers will benefit 😁👍
I don’t think I’d be to affected by #Rapidgate either as my daily miles are likely to be under 30 most days, and longer journeys which we do rarely are unlikely to be over 150-200 miles. I had all the knowledge when I test drove & subsequently ordered the new leaf. Now is the anti climate of the 5 month wait for delivery.
After I bought an 2013 leaf, I had a chance to test ride the new leaf. Many items almost the same, many improvements. I could imagine to swap to the new one if my present one reached his lifetime end and I could afford a new one. With the exception of the battery the old leaf is a very reliable car and seems not to produce high maintenance or repair costs. If the battery is worn out I can decide to replace it and have a good car for long time again.
If I decide to swap to the new leaf I will have a new car with a longer range but with almost the same battery technology as my leaf.
And at this point I don't understand why Nissan, who sold the most ev's ever (before tesla)set on the same technology. They collected terabytes of battery data from the users by the tcu.
Is it why they want to save costs? A water cooling infrastructure is just build in for the motor and motor electronics. Why not for the battery? Why not install simple tubes and hoses inside the battery and connect it to the existing system? Radiator, pump and collector is just present!
I’ll probably wait for the 60 kWh I have to drive to Edinburgh from Colchester where I’m based quite often, most weekends to be honest. I’ve got the 30 kWh now and I still make the drive but it takes sooo long to get to Edinburgh haha.
Keep 12v battery charged if car left for a while with a solar panel battery trickle charger costing £25 from Halfords. Plugs in to point under dashboard.
J Mack I have seen these. Do they really make a difference?
The new leaf is more an evolution of the leaf 1. It’s like Golf 6 and 7. A big plus for all brits I would say that it’s Made in UK.
Nice impartial video Glyn. I do think Nissan have handled RapidGate poorly. They knew all along the car had limitations, but spent a good while pretending it was just a small number of vehicles with faults, rather than acknowledging they had hobbled the charging because they'd gone cheap on thermal management. It's such a pity, as they fitted it to the eNV200 40kWh model. I really want to like the Leaf, but we do a fairly regular trip to southern France, so need an EV that can charge consistently on rapids. What was your miles per kWh? You mention getting 140 miles on your charge. That seems quite low; we have a 41kWh Zoe and at the moment see nothing less than 180 on a charge and have been getting over 200 for the past month. That's with a similar mix of driving as you did. It sounds like the Leaf is a bit thirsty? What do you think?
Mike Winter sounds like the new Leaf isn’t for you with that trip to France. I was holding off giving a miles per kWh until it goes back to get a good average. At the moment I’m on 3.9.
Very nice review thank you.
Love your new content and how you are presenting. Keep up the great work.
I think you need to try a long trip to be sure.
Hi Ryan, nice video as always. I've got to say if you buy a new Nissan leaf in 2018 you've got to expect in 2019 it will seem old and less relevant. 2019 will see the launch of several newer and probably better EVs with much better range. I'd be concerned about the 140mile range just making the leaf a poor investment financially.
The EV Puzzle It's so sad. I can never buy an EV because there will always be a better one coming "next year".
yes thats so true, its hard to spend good money for a ev when it will depreciate so fast due to better tech/rage/price on upcoming evs in the next few years.
Lease instead. Ditto with mobile phones, why would you buy this type of tech that is superseded in a matter of months?
The EV Puzzle A car is always a bad investment of money. That’s why few people buy for cash and lease instead.
'Investment' is the wrong way to look at it. It's an *expense* for a service, and that service is *transport*. If the cost, amortised over the time you own the car, is cheaper than the alternatives, it's a wise decision. If not, it's not. And leasing isn't always a better option... unless you're getting a new car every few years, in which case you need to ask yourself why you think that's appropriate or socially responsible.
So Ryan, are you going to buy one?
No more fuel and no more oil change , now that is a good point you forgot to say. That make you save around 4000$ every year. Electric motor dont need much care so you save on that. No water and no exhaust pipe il a lot better too.
For local use and the occasional road trip the LEAF is perfect, but when it comes to long distance travel, the Ionic has been proven to be a better vehicle. Moreover, I would think the Kona EV would also be an option for long distance travel, as the 60kWh LEAF if it ever arrives. Cheers from Arizona, USA.
Looking at all the EVs on the market, I wonder if it would make more sense for the manufacture to state the minimum distance the car can drive under the most unfavorable conditions. It would give me a peace of mind know that I can go in EV for 200km under any conditions even though the maximum range could be 400km.
Aliaksei Ivanov I agree with you in theory but any test that puts an end figure as a result is open to interpretation. Just look at the emissions issue! We just need consistency. We all know the mpg advertised by manufacturers is never right but we have learnt over time to adjust this. If we can find and stick to a EV range test then we will learn what it means in the real world.
They can do threw simple test drives from 100% charge to 0%: 1. Motorway drive at 120 kmh in winter at around - 20 c. 2. Motorway at 120 kmh in hot condition at around +20c. 3. Roads in the mountains. Then pick up the worst result. If a car can do 200km in all three scenarios, it can do 200 anywhere.
Great review! Has the test drive made you want to get one? Or are you waiting for something else to come out? :)
Hi did you get you car fixed by Nissan?
Great video review. Nissan are a joke by training to justify rapidgate by saying it's mentioned in the manual. People who put down a deposit and buy the car wouldn't have had access to the manual until they took delivery. The fact it's in the manual is irrelevant, they should be informing users so they are completely clear before they take a single penny.
sorphin, how many times have you read the car manual before buying a new car? Perhaps never, like most of us! I have not done it myself and some manuals are terribly long making it practically impossible. BUT I have definitely seen and read many reviews before buying a new car.
i feel like the leaf is the affordable way to go for ev especially used id love one