David Brevik: Diablo 3 vs. Diablo 2 and Path of Exile (D2 Lead Dev)
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Diablo 2 lead developer David Brevik talks about Diablo 3 vs Diablo 2: skill system and loot system. Path of Exile went similar to D2 - will Diablo 4? All evidence suggests Diablo 4 is confirmed in development and possibly an MMORPG. Don't expect a reveal at Blizzcon 2017.
Diablo 3 necromancer release date is all but confirmed to be in July, since D3 Season 10 end date and Season 11 start date have been revealed.
This is part 6 of my David Brevik interview. Stay tuned for part 6!
Part 1: • Are Primal Ancients a ...
Part 2: • DIABLO 4 Will Happen, ...
Part 3: • Diablo 4 an MMO? Diabl...
Part 4: • REVEALED: StarCraft Re...
Part 5: • The Diablo 3 and D2 Ex...
More Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls guides, builds for all classes - Demon Hunter, Witch Doctor, Crusader, Barbarian, Monk, and Wizard: • Diablo 3: Reaper of So...
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Executive producers: Kiskaloo, MohEternal, NickTick, Recramorcen, 2hoste
Special thanks: Maia Nashira, Matthew Feiteira, Anyanka, Gwen Scanlon, Joel Williams, Toioiz, FrontlinePsycho
D3: easy to start, easy to get bored.
POE: hard to start, never get bored.
D2: we still like it
I got bored by PoE after 10 hours.
Thank you for interviewing Brevik. He has always been 100% correct about Diablo. Blizzard never should have let him walk away.
Diablo 3 went absolutely overboard with the casualization. There's no excitement when anything drops (because with Kanai everything is so common), everyone runs in exactly the same gear, with exactly the same rolls, playing (almost) exactly the same build. My S6 raekor barb is borderline identical to my S10 one. I did really like RoS when it came out, but now it takes literally 10h to be decked out in full legendaries + set and that's where your progression stops abruptly. Playing 2nd season of PoE, having an absolute blast depsite the fact that the combat system flows better in D3.
Amadeusz Z not only is it hard to find upgrades over a solid ancient from a logical standpoint, but the brickwall in D3 where you can't progress your character hits twice as hard. The loot system identifies which gear setups and items are most commonly in use and makes things way harder to get once the seasons progress. This is insanely flawed and the last month of every season is just paragon grind.
dont think it was "casualization" (which isnt even a real word). More like they ran out of ideas
I cant play much but Im going very slow with my barb he is paragon 100... actually Im trying to beat the last act again and it takes some time. :D
Amadeusz Z Yeah i also think that there was a point when RoS released when the game felt really great. But later they fucked up the amount of legendaries that dropped and i think thats the big reason i stopped tbh. It's sad cos i loved that game but now i feel nothing for it tbh xD
That is exactly how they managed to fuck up WoW. That and flying mounts.
d2>d3
poe>d2>d1>d3
d2 was great for its time. the ambience and all are cool but the balance and end game? non existant
This is true.
legendary game developer. All the insights on how to make a good game just from 1 interview
I just D2 yesterday after many years, and its honestly still the best game of its kind. Its more fun, and unique than all the games after it.
pls put all brevik videos in one playlist. months ago i saw these videos (different topic) and am really confused why im seeing them again. i do enjoy them.
Good idea!
Hentai offers a unique perspective on an otherwise taboo side of life.
Best first comment ever.
I love you.
Yes.
What.
I mean... where did that thought come from?
not having seen any Hentai, I'm wondering if its true!
What would I add to D3 from POE : atmosphere and amazing ambient, memories of some places like Lunaris Temple still give me chills, a bit more complexity.
What would I add to POE from D3: more dynamics, a bit less complexity(ability to fully reset talent points for example), pants.
hahaha i couldnt agree more with you. My poor marauder has never had the luxury of wearing pants
Jesus how long was this interview? Did you guys take a break at all during it? (love it by the way)
Hahah no break.. We spoke for over an hour. It was more of a conversation.
I think that one of the best features in D3 is the crafting system. I've been replaying D2 a lot recently and I noticed that more often than not, the best thing that an Elite monster drops is potions. Monsters almost never drop uniques, and most blues and yellows are either instantly sold or not picked up at all. It makes you think "oh I could have just walked past that monster and not bothered, since I got nothing" What I like in D3 is that everything is useful. every time you kill an elite, you know you're going to get a handful of Deaths Breaths, which is great. Legendaries you don't need? salvage into souls to use to make your gear better (rerolling a stat on your items is awesome too). Being able to craft gear and make it better with Kanai's Cube is great, and makes the loot system a lot stronger in my opinion.
Say it again for the people in the back!
@Jacob What many of you don't realize is that, because "everything" is useful, it dramatically reduces the amount of time it takes to get geared. I am playing D2 right now(76 sorc, 88 necro) the BEAUTIFUL thing about D2 is that it takes a LONG time to get geared, everything isn't thrown at you. If you want more uniques and 'useful' things from monsters you up your MF, that doesn't GUARANTEE you something useful, but it increases your chances that's exactly what you seem to want out of D3... Everything useful. This is why majority of people only play 1-2 weeks out of every season. Everything is thrown at you, that you can go from NOTHING! to something in 20-30 hours. Pathetic. You don't really earn your loot in Diablo 3, in Diablo 2 you have to. Why? because everything isn't useful. You have to understand the psychology behind the decisions.
Breezy8o8 It may seem so, but this is an incorrect conclusion. Just because everything is useful doesn't mean that less time is taken to gear up. There are a lot more variables in play to counter your conclusion just because they are part of the equation. However, the time invested can be less than in a comparison unit. You just need to give us the unit to which we compare the game in question with. We also need to remember that by adding variables, subtracting them and rearranging the variables of the equation, we change the result which in this case is the time investment.
Yes. We do need to understand the psychology behind things, but only if we want closure.
Why does everyone seem to think taking less time to gear up is bad from a gameplay perspective? I want to try new things, I want to switch specs when I get bored with one, and I want to switch back when I feel like it. And quite frankly, I like to try EVERYTHING a game has to offer, so I like that there's sort of a cap on viable specs. I'm fine with not having to try 100 different playstyles and there's no f-ing way I'm leveling 100 different characters to do so.
@Tony Kunnari yes, I should've explained more in-depth but the topic is "everything is useful" So rather than ranting on about a whole game, I am sticking to the OP's topic. Also challenging him on why he's complimenting D3 on "Everything is useful" I am actually shocked that 20 people thumbs him up, and they never seemed to question it. I thought it was general and common for people to realize that D3 sucks because loot sucks, and loot sucks cuz everything is thrown at you and "useful".
What I liked about D2 was that Rare items were better than Uniques/Sets.
Give me back my 8 player games again. Wish D3 wasn't so limited in this aspect.
I love these interview videos about Diablo :)
Doxorn- Sames :)
The biggest thing that turned me off of D3 had to of been (like was mentioned) the over the top skills, storyline, music, and the overall sense that I never felt hopeless in D3. Even in D2 when playing with a friend I still felt mortal regardless of how geared out I was. Diablo 1 and 2 have always created such a terrifying atmosphere wth visuals and music. Even pointless stats such as *+2 to light radius* helped support the fact that 'you were alone out there' and yes there got to a point where you steam rolled everything but that took quite a bit of time. Point being is that Diablo games aren't supposed to be about party synergy with cookie cutter support and damage roles, it's about a couple of normal people fighting and struggling to survive.
and getting bad ass gear and trading with people and dueling servers and rush servers and litterally just remake d2 thats all we really need geez.. lol
Holy shit.....i was away from your channel for a long time.....you had 27 000 subs when i last watched you.....gratz on 300 000k lol
Thanks!
It's funny because I prefer depth or accessibility almost entirely depending on my mood. Sometimes I just feel like booting up D3, joining the new season and plowing my way to GR70, but sometimes I feel like booting up PoE and getting lost in item interactions and passive nodes.
The challenge for any looter in this generation is to recreate the magic of the Diablo 2 loot system.
i like the way that you focused with the questions for david and when you clarified the point at the end in every question
In my opinion its a nice interview
Thanks!
The grognards were Napoleon Bonaparte's old soldiers... Sweet analogy! :)
I hope the Diablo 2 remaster keep the old loot system in it!
"When the best way to get gear, so you can be good at playing the game is to not play the game there is a problem" - very true and GGG don't seem to be acknowledging that fact. Do you think they will ever improve upon that?
I think that in-clan-only-trading would be a very good compromise on the trading issue, which means that you can only trade with people in your clan. There also needs to be a 1-2 week waiting period before you can start to trade in a new clan when you join it to disincentivise scammers.
The only thing D3 needs is a Sanctuary Editor. And let the community create their own Diablo. Just give me an editor Blizzard.
Ive never really thought about why i since the beginning didnt really like the stats on items in D3. But you put it in words here Rhykker :P The D2 System is FAR superior because of this (for an arpg) in my opinion.
Pretty cool to know that he believes in things should be meaningful choices. Consequences. Like those of us who love d2. It deepens the experience because of being challenging. That you gotta think! Lol. That you really actually care about your character. I didn't mind sittin there for 10 minutes deliberating over my items in my inventory, what I was holding, what was in my stash and the cube. Made it more meaningful when you came up with the right blend. Also his idea on trading is literally what they say they're going to do in diablo 4. So glad to see they're doing things the creator would want. Im hopeful it'll be a great game.
I like the way that trade becomes limited in POE. People remove items from the economy voluntarily by Vaaling the items with inevitably ruins most of them in their chase for the ultamate late game gear.
D2 loot, D3 crafting, would like to see D4 with Cain as a young man and that story...
Its just one of those things where you gotta find the right balance between two factors. Right amount of accessibility and depth
I know you didn't feel like getting into it but do you have a link to your thoughts on D3's story? I like the depth and general viewpoint you approach a lot of subjects with blizzard games so I'd love to read your thoughts on the story.
@Rhykker Have you ever played Grim Dawn? It's Diablo 2 Advanced and Path of Exile Lite. It can hold its own against both titles quite well.
everyone i talk to misses the auction house days with the ability to trade openly back then. imo, the only problem then was the duping
I like that the D3 system is more area/monster neutral in its drop rates rather than having to dig through game files to find the right mlvl to get the right ilvl for the quality of roll you were looking for.
Moving away from a game where you speed run to kill one boss and then reset the game was a major plus point, I find playing the Ui like that (speed of closing and starting a new game) very draining.
I like that items are more consistent than d2 where some items had 3 stat properties and then another had 12-15.
Multiple stash pages that were all account wide is far better a system, being able to move away from having soo many stats on a hidden breakpoint system is better for accessibility.
Poor David when he sees Rhykker s skype call: "o shit it s him again"
Hahahah we just had one interview :) It was a very long conversation though, 1-2 hours or something
I prefer the way Diablo 1 did things. The best Diablo in my opinion would be a game that would have the atmosphere and the core gameplay of Diablo 1(only dungeons to explore with hundreds of random quests that would work exactly as D1's quests), it would have the itemization of Diablo 2 and from Diablo 3 it would have...
...the shared stash.
I think that DII was better for me at the time of my life I was at when I was playing it, while DIII is better for me now. When I played DII, I had the time to really get into the depth of the systems and build making because I was a Middle/High School student. Now, I don't have that amount of time to go into a game, and re-rolling a character because I messed up my build just isn't appealing to me. I mean, I'm married and have a 40 hr+/week job....and yes, I definitely get that I'm a filthy casual now.
I've played them all, I've loved them all, but as I'm gettin' older I've become more casual of a player so I really appreciate the ease of the latest release.
Brevik interviews are awnsome, great Job Rhykker!
Grats From Brazil :)
Cheers!
Binding is not the only way to solve trading problems.
It's just a short-sighted and lazy way to solve problems.
There are many alternatives:
- adding durability/repair costs (item lasts for 1000 hits before disintegrating)
- adding item upgrades / combining items (10 rare swords have a chance of creating one legendary sword)
- abilities that convert items to gold (high alchemy in runescape)
Dont be dumb please. The biggest problem in D3s economy wasnt the Auction house implement. Was the lack of LADDER system every 3-4 months so game could reset economy and everyone start from scratch. If someone wants to play the AH game or not , doesnt affect you , the one that want to play. Path of exile is a fine example about what im talking about. In POE you can trade almost everything and still its as healthy as it gets. Please with AH hate ...
AH in vanilla D3 was not optional. It was only optional if you were okay with having a shit character. The drop rates were literally balanced around the assumption that you would use the AH. It was the AH combined with Loot 1.0 - I didn't bring it up in the video, but legendary items were total garbage in Loot 1.0 and drop rates were abysmal. It would take like 10-20 hours to find one legendary item, and it had no special properties and would almost always be an instant-salvage. There was no smart loot, so the legendaries wouldn't roll the right stats, so you would keep your yellow gear. There were hardly any special abilities on items. In PoE, when you find a unique item, it's generally a good item and you can use it. Also, drops aren't as rare in PoE as they were in vanilla D3. I found one legendary item in my first playthrough of D3 and it was garbage. I found a few uniques in PoE in my first playthrough, and I used most of them.
That was a problem with itemization in D3, not with AH. In D3 legendaries were just rares with 1 or 2 predefined stats (that sometimes couldn't even roll normally on that slot) and everything else was random. In PoE uniques like in D2 have predefined stats and randomness is limited to rolls or variants (random rolls on most uniques, with some extremes like Ventor's Gamble where every stat rolls from negative to positive, variants on few uniques, like Vessel of Vinktar, which has 4 different variants - with lightning penetration, added lightning damage, added lightning damage to spells and physical damage converted to lightning). Rares on the other hand are rolled completely randomly, like in vanilla D3 and D2. Another problem with D3 right now is everything below legendaries is useless, because rares are just worse than legendaries. That's not true for PoE and D2, where every class of item is useful (in PoE uniques are generally items that offer some unique properties, sometimes with strong downside coupled with strong upside, rares are just good items stat-wise, that can roll from crap to godly items + crafting system allows to craft them and most slots should be rare items with some uniques that work well with your build, magic items are for leveling, hidden potential builds, for crafting top tier gear from scratch, normal items - crafting bases). And another problem with orignal D3 AH was currency inflation that wasn't countered enough. In D2 players solved it by using runes as currency, in PoE they made currency system inspired by it. Smart loot + lack of trading was terrible solution, just as many short sighted changes D3 RoS. Reaper of Souls turned me from Diablo fan into a sceptical about D3 first and then into passionate hater with subsequent patches. With all its downsides vanilla D3 was miles better than Reaper of Souls, that had few improvements and VAST amount of shortsighted and retarded changes.
I agree , the overall D3s design was crappy from the get go thats why all those core changes had to occur. the last season i played D3 few months back i geared up 2 toons in 5 days ... thats .. toooo casual !! I mean why Blizzard is so obsessed with all of their games to be thaaaat casual friendly is beyond me. POE proves that there is room for more hardcore approach and better Blizzard understand that or else i fear already about Diablo 4.
Lol you know nothing if you think that is the problem. D3 is a dumbed down version of D2. No thinking has to be done by the player. Add to that. No PVP,,, No trading,,, No variety in builds,,,Too dumbed down,,, No calculations has to be done by the player.... It's like a mindless dumb game you play on your cellphone to make time go faster that's what D3 is!
Can you read ? What are you saying has to do with D3s economy and AH we talking about ? I agree with everything you saying , i think the same. Blizzard obsession with making their games tooo casual is starting to backfire hard. D3 and HOTS are fine examples with WoW being close , luckily for it there isnt huge competition in mmorpg market or else ...
Thank god they didnt make Starcraft 2 a walk in the park as well because everything else ... going down the casual road big time and yes, it can work with some genres and games but ... Diablo ? Beeh .
in PoE, you can trade for literally any item that drops and you can pick up
Depth vs accessibility? Really? So playing a game that is so stupidly simple where you can be a powerhouse within 2 weeks of playing you get bored of it versus what Brevik said about eating a sandwhich and looking at the passive tree planning new characters.
What game is going to keep an audience?
What game is going to feel rewarding?
What game is going to have a more dedicated community?
What game is is going to last?
Gamers are sick of this hand holding bull shit. Why do you think Dark Souls series became an instant success?
Rhykker why do you support Diablo 3 and how does it keep your attention? I'm very curious.
Obviously but a couple points if Rhykker is a streamer i assume and plays D3 constantly... how the fuck does he do it with out killing himself? I do understand some people like those kinda brainless games however this seems to be possibly his "career". People put PoE on such a high pedestal because did you ever play D2? Cuz if you did and you loved the game D3 was a huge smack in the face.
the current blizzard are cowards. they want to make their games extremely simple and easy so all the casual trashes can jump in and be held by the hand 24/7. they are afraid to risk like the dark souls series. who thought an extremely hard game will become 1 of the most famous games of all time?
@Lord Haari yes you're right, and that's why for a game that's sold 30,000,000 copies... at BlizzCon it gets a stall smaller than the bathrooms. Because it's obviously popular. Majority of players have moved on from the "GIVE ME EVERYTHING I WANT IN THE GAME AND NOT LET ME EARN IT WAAH" attitude. It shows in seasons, hardly any players compared to 30,000,000 copies sold.
People have different goals and want different experiences. So Diablo 3 caters to super-extreme casuals that want instant gratification, majority of players who want to earn their shit are gone in 1-2 weeks of Diablo 3 season because they've earned it, and there's nothing more to earn besides +5 stats. No gratification from putting in work anymore. Legendaries are too common, they don't feel legendary, and even your brain knows it's not legendary, because they're so frequent that you immediately goto Cain's book then Blacksmith for salvaging without even requiring 1 conscious thought. Your subconscious knows it's going to be shit, so it makes the decision for you so you don't have to deal with the crippling depression of the state of the game.
Misanthropic Magnate, Yes, and don't speak for me; it wasn't a smack in my face. I played D2 from release date and for about ten years, until I found Median. Still enjoyed D3, also from release and I'm currently looking forward to the Necromancer, it being my favorite class from D2 (vanilla LoD, anyway) . I promise, it's not impossible to like both.
I'm not saying this to say, "Oh, look at me, I'm a series and genre vet, I'm so good, your opinion is irrelevant," rather I just wish you'd learn some, just a little bit, of empathy. You wonder how he doesn't kill himself streaming D3? Do you seriously not realize how ridiculous of a question that is? Is it that hard for you to fathom that people enjoy things that you don't? Jesus, I'd hate to talk to you about music.
Jabet Aguiluz, they bash D3 like it's a full-time job and praise PoE like it's their religion. What they don't know is that their constant zealous fanaticism makes them and their community look like garbage.
I prefer D3 because of the gameplay. I understand the endgame is lacking and the itemization leaves something to be desired when compared to D2. But the smooth and satisfying combat in D3 keeps me coming back every season.
Ive never used trading in diablo, always try-harding to drop and I work just with items I get. Playing for 3 months actively got me to 600 paragon and being able to do t11 solo which I consider high success.
I like how Rhykker goes for the more specific intrincates of ARPGs genre without putting it softly. Videos with clickbaiting titles, which are everywhere on this channel, are disgusting, BUT, videos like THIS one and the previous one can get my upvote and my subscribe. Less blabbering and more informative (and real, not speculations) content is the way to go. Good job.
Brevik said it perfectly: moment to moment gameplay in D3 is awesome. In most ARPGs it is more of a clunky chore. My biggest problem with D3 is that the system is "legendary bound". Unless you have Gear Piece X with Stat Y then you can't even think about enjoying Playstyle Z. However, PoE and other major competitors are mostly this way as well. I guess Torchlight 2 felt more organic with builds bound to the skill tree rather than gear, but I never made it to end game to see if that held up.
3 years from now you'll still be milking these Brevik clips. :D
David Brevik looks like an intelligent and creative man. Cannot say the same about the D3 or especially SC2 lead devs, they're uninspired and shallow in comparison.
One big aspect which is causing this impression of mine is that they are trying to sell their new games as so much better than the old ones ever were. "We know how awesome our game is, because we can play it already, the critics cannot" (during the color/darkness debate during D3 alpha). "We are so inspired, we have so much story to tell, we need to divide this game into 3 installations" (SC2 alpha). Well, that was Activision's profit maximization speaking, and since then it has continued to do so. The lead devs should have the modesty to withdraw their sugarcoating until they actually match the prequels quality.
7:00: That's just wrong. Loot IS part of the game, and horse trading is just as important as horse getting. Otherwise you might as well just get loot for your class.
As someone who never played D2 or D1, I did not have a strong connection to Cain so his death did not really affect me. What affected me however was what happened to Leah because I for some reason I really liked her as a character and no one derserves the shit that happened to her. She just wanted her familiy and open an inn in the future. If there is a D4, we better be out there collecting shards of the souldstone to put her back together. Damn it.
Cerdaemonium who the fuck cares
Well. I do. So there is at least one person =P
I want items to be rare man. Like, super rare. I never got to play in those days. I hate playing a season and having decently rolled most pieces within a couple days.
If PoE could have D3s gameplay...heaven
hopefully 3.0 fix that =(
Well Cyclones new function is so smooth, just the AoE is a bit small. But if doing a cyclone gladiator you can get the poison explosions which clean almost any pack effortlessly.
It's finally happening with PoE 2!!!
In honor of Rhyker, I will also not go into a tirade about the story of D3.
I really like the fact that Diablo 3 gives as much info on item stats and upgrades as possible. I *cannot stand* hidden numbers and effects in games like this. More info is always better.
I mean the reason you keep playing is to improve your character and if its very difficult to tell what's an improvement and what is not then, at least for me, there's no reason to keep playing. It just becomes a crap shoot with no identifiable direction of advancement.
This was a problem I often had with Torchlight....not reliably knowing what was an upgrade or which stats were more important.
is it bad that I didn't notice rhyker in the corner for three quarters of the video
Great video again. Also I did like D2 in it's time a LOT, I personally much prefer the D3 for it's accessibility (well after the loot 2.0, not vanilla). At least one does not have to spend whole year grinding to try new build. And the skill-based legendaries just cry to try them all. There is still enough depth in climbing ladders, especially for hardcore (I personally only play hardcore) challenge rift would bring even more.
World of Diablo with latest unique graphic engine will look cool and interesting. Those days WoW just sucked. No more balanced factions, there is open world but you are alone... no faction balance, I think its the time for something new and fresh or maybe WoW 2... and D4
i would love wow 2 or diablo mmo
In D2 trading was community tool, while in D3 was earning tool.
In D2 you needed to go and talk to the people. You needed to engage in community.
In D3 you don't take part in community, I've literally never got response from players in D3 when trying to talk.
D2 trading was perfect, because it was hard. I hate auction hauses. The only way such can have healthy existance in a loot based game is if people are forced to stand in marketplace and market their items. Good trading system requires communication between players, therefore making it slow and not high-earning process.
D2 is the best end video
9:57 " I wonder if Diablo 3 would have healthier community if they wouldnt have removed trading completely " Well ofcourse it would have. By removing trading completely, they made D3 a single player game. Why would you join a guild / clan or play with others when all the loot is un-tradeable.. It was so nice to see that a witch doctor in my clan found that barbarian weapon what i had been looking for weeks. Only that there were no option to trade. Not even between clan or even friends.
obviously +skills is better than damage if you do more damage with your skills than you lose from the equip, aka if you're a spellcaster
to crushing blow or not to crushing blow, that is the question, is it not?
Feels like Brevik doesn't wanna insult D3-devs, and really dislike the game. But maybe that is just my impression cause that is how I feel about it. :D
very nice interview rhykker, good work!
Thanks!
watching interviews with former diablo people makes me enter the weekend smiling
Your right, those decisions of what is better or how much dps is this are things that add depth to the game. its very easy to say they are pointless and remove them for convenience but your removing depth at the same time.
Thanks for the videos, really enjoyed it!
will like 3 bind on equip (from different account) then you can't trade anymore. Because in 1st month of season with my friend we often find upgrade but can't trade them because we don't play together all the time.
"Hey um......................what do you think of how they killed off Deckard Cain?"
quality question; something I'm sure every D1-D2 player has for Brevik and it made me lol
I've been thoroughly enjoying this series. Thanks guys!
Hahah cheers!
So one big thing about PoE is that it does have full trade. But the currency is consumable. So the economy has that natural money sink by people simply crafting items. The other is the skill system makes it so different characters may want different things out of a similar item. Even down to the colors of the slots. So while there are definitely better and weaker items, there is a bit more of that apples and oranges rather than apples and better apples thing going on.
Another biggie is that the top tier items are rare, not uniques. That means that it is not a matter of simply farming a specific item and going to poe trade and getting it. Getting that really good rare may take the average player days or weeks of farming currency to get. And since we are getting currency rather than wanting a specific legendary drop, it means that it always feels like we are progressing. Sure I may not have gotten that 6 link Atziri's Disfavor today. But I got 2 exalts worth of stuff. So at least I made progress towards that item I'm chasing.
But since the currency gets spent in game, the inflation only gets just so bad. A few weeks into a temporary league, exalts are about 30-50 chaos. By the end, they are 70-90. So there is definitely some form of inflation (well really it is that people are using chaos more than EX in the early league and people crafting lots of chaos using the recipe as the league progresses). But it is not nearly as much as the inflation of a game like Diablo 3 which didn't have many gold sinks during the AH days.
Diablo 2 is the game I grew up on. Currently 31, I've played d2 through hardcore to 99 dodging tppk trigger hacks, dupes and low level duels pkrs. I lived on both sides of the spectrum from magic finding mephesto on hours on end to hunting people down in act 2 of of the sewers. Obviously I went to d3 expecting a lot more than what was offered. Lacking choice in the arpg and refusing to go to wow I gave Poe a chance. I've made it to the end game of all 3 of these arpg's with countless hours under my belt. I'm just going to say this. The answer is simple, take all of them and push them together. You should have a game that feels good and runs smooth when killing shit "d3" you should have a game that creates a lot of depth skill and build wise "Poe" and you should also have a loot system on d2's scale but also the heart stopping moments where someone could hostile you and hunt you down. You can stay and fight or die and lose 100's of hours of your life in an instant. Each one of these games has it's pluses. Why not push them all together and finally make something for the people. It's really not that hard to see and it's the reason so many of us are butt hurt honestly. I don't ever comment because I'm old now and feel like it's not worth my time but I'm on vacation and the pool is cold as fuck. So here you go.
I think we can still get the both o both words by going deeper into secondary attributes. Put only in primary attributes that are measurable, and in secondary attributes you can't compare.
Voila! Less skilled players and player with less time can trust the numeric comparisons. And players who want a more in-depth experience can dig deeper on those secondaries.
Hate trading, but I see why people like it. So I think arpgs should have 2 modes - with and without trading. The second one with better drops obviously so that you can eventually get every item.
When I loot axe in Diablo 3, I just search for better damage, better str stat, vit stat. Thats it.
While on Diablo 2, you can get Axe with aura skill, chance to freeze, chance to summon skeleton, increase specific Barb Skill, etc
I got bored of Diablo 3 so fast, while I'm still played Diablo 2 til this day
PoE doesn't pass the mom test. Grognard told me so @11:30.
I really miss knockback weapons.
I really miss using weapons
Loot 2.0 is on the other side of radical approach to the loot. Loot 1.0 you were finding no items and in loot 2.0 you're flooded with random good quality loot so in both scenario you're not gonna find a really good item. You need the right stats with right secondary stats with right values which isn't good either but now you're not very likely to find very good item you don't need and you cannot trade it for good item for your class/build.
Right now Diablo 2 trading system wouldn't have the same positive effect in a new game.
PoE shows that with 3rd party websites where you can "streamline" the process to the point where it would break the economy in a gold-based game like Diablo 2.
What makes PoE work is that the currency is spent (gambled) to upgrade items.
The ideal solution for me is different from soulbinding. :)
The part where he mentions that Diablo 3 wont be getting massive patch updates/updates like expansions sounds too true too me. Only due to them mentioning they're making the Necromancer, which A LOT of us feel should've been in the game since launch. It took them a year to make it. Granted the Diablo 3 team is small. I thought it would've been maybe 6 months? Not a full year. But I be the person that says the Diablo 2 loot system was WAAY better/is way better than Diablo 3. Simply because you were able to build heavy Magic Find while still being able to clear things & you were able to get other class sets. Which was normally the higher Magic Find you had, the better chance at finding certain items. In Diablo 3 they literally give you everything. The ONLY kind of grind that there is, is terms of gear is finding ancients & now primal ancients(Which either or having the correct stats). People will say " Well you can get other class gear pieces in D3 ". Yes you can, but.. I don't wanna say as easy, cause then that sounds as if I just want it handed. But it'll literally take for some people 50-100 runs just to get another Dex/Str or Int class item. Which I think is pretty lame.
Kadala is a prime example of that. I think for every 10-15 rare/blue item, you should get at least 1 legendary/set piece. Whether it's the correct set piece/legendary that you need for the build is random. But you should be able to get at least 1 for every 10-15 pieces. As opposed to where you can spend 1k+ shards & only get yellows and blues Lol
I honestly love both. However I will say this. When I was playing D2 I was in High school and preferred a much more deeper approach and depth in games. Now that I am older (turning 35) I prefer to kind of just "get in the game." I do not really have that time for depth and planning and such. I liked PoE but was turned off by how much hardcore depth there is at time. D3 is perfect to jump into a new season. Bang out a few weeks or so and move on feeling like you at least had fun for those weeks without having to think hard about it.
That said this was a great vid and loved David insight on everything.
Itemization in D2 was much better than in D3. Mainstat, All Res, Vit, CHD, CHC are just too streamlined. I would have preferred if for example several singe resistances that can roll on gear and when All Res rolls, the amount is smaller than a a single resistance, which would make itemization more interesting.
Legendaries drop waaaaaaay too often in D3. I liked the idea of having an average legendary drop rate of 1legendary per 60-90 minutes. Also yellow items should be rare and useful, which they are not in D3.
I love both. I just love em both as two different things. D2 is fun to grind and play headphones on alone at night, whereas D3 is always my go to stress reliever when I get home from work, it's instant gratification. D2 is all about memories with friends for me and the nostalgia factor will always be the driving force. D3 also has been pretty popular among my friends lately which is also nice.
I disagree about the auction house/trading stuff. For those of us who only play a few hours a week (and we are the majority), that greatly increases my enjoyment of the game. I don't play D3, but without poe.trade I would probably almost never play PoE or any ARPG. With my lack of time, I would never come close to getting the items I want or need to do high level content myself.
everytime i watch i hope the d3 team watches them
Basically - David Brevik likes PoE more than he does what his franchise became by Blizzard making it.
actually wow mithyc dungeon system and also some of the skills in wow are basicly like diablo 3 and another thing, something about last interview about diablo 4, they'll do maibe but they also could do something more wow style with diablo give it another direction that would save, that game that could redem it in some sense
What things D3 teams done right: graphics, sound, good server. And David means, they fucked up everything else like skill systems, stories.
Dont be confused guys, d2 is better in every single way. Quantify that.
The only improvement D3 had was individual loot. D2 is superior in all other aspects. I really think developers should not shy away from complex systems. If the game is good, players will invest the time to learn it. If its simple and easy player will get bored and abandon the game for something else. Look at POE its super complex but its known there is a learning curve and players are fine with that, myself included I value depth.
Still trying to get Diablo 2 to run on this computer, without color glitches and terribad framerates...
diablo 2´s system seems SO much more interesting.. unfortunately i have never played this highly praised game ):
I prefer the way Grim Dawn is approaching this. Mods. Every game with a dedicated modding community was a sucess. Skyrim, Grim Dawn, Fallout, Terraria, Starbound, Dragon Age Origins, Mount & Blade, i could go on forever. The main reason for community mods to be a major point in a games sucess is the variety, longevity and in some cases just an objective improvement to the game. Better sound, graphics, animations or a smoother experience (FPS).
Grim Dawn with mods, has more modes, classes and build variety than all ARPG's combined.
I can appreciate D2's in-depth nature, but running a character for each build and mis-clicking or screwing up your whole build aren't very attractive. I prefer D3's dynamic talent system to help showcase all the capabilities of a class. Then again, I find PoE's talent and skill systems enthralling. Keep up the good work Rhykker!
I think D3 had it's time but i think it will be good for blizzard to move on learn from their mistakes and achieve the best possible outcome
Maybe a little better if it had some sort of trading, but its not the problem with D3.
i think i hate almost everything he said
please dont ruin poe with soulbound items and rather stay and produce more games that have no content but please leave the good ones alone
this is part 6, stay tuned for part 6?
That auction house was the worst idea Blizzard EVER implemented into a game. And by that I mean philosphically, it was absolutely repulsive. Best way to describe it : "how to want to make money SO much that you ruin an otherwise decent game". The loot system was a nightmare and getting just SLIGHTLY better by playing was basically impossible. You HAD TO buy stuff.
I HATED that fucking auction house. And I HATED these randomly generated stats. IT was godawful and it's honestly, to this day, still a memory of the game that makes me distrust Blizzard. I play their games, but not with the innocence and naive pleasure I used to have. Now I look for the moment when they're gonna try and rip me off. It definitely left a mark.
Meaningful progression is what D3 lacks. It's a core concept of any arpg and that's why it's irreparable at this point. When D3 was first announced and they said Items will be the source of your baseline character progression, I was on board, but now I realize this was a mistake that can't be reverted. This fact became clearer to me with the introduction of paragon levels and when they dropped balancing character skills and focused on legendary item properties instead. Thematically as well, it felt like the nephalem were actually a bunch of powerless jobbers without their "legendary items".
Anybody notice Rhykker at the top right semi-off screen?