Curtis Yarvin on the Decline of the Internet
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- Опубликовано: 12 июл 2022
- Link to full interview on Odysee: odysee.com/@FUTO:e/curtisyarv...
Curtis Yarvin joins us today to discuss what made the Internet great and how and why it's going away. Don't worry - no discussion of Elves or Hobbits!
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![Eminem - Houdini [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/22tVWwmTie8/mqdefault.jpg)
My biggest peeve currently is how every site now requires you to log in, and is stripped of functionality or outright blocked until you do. ‘Strictly necessary’ cookies still track you, companies with apps actually strip functionality from their websites to encourage people to download their app. Some sites like Yelp won’t even work on mobile, and just redirect you to their app if you try to access their photos that Google has made central to all small business pages online.
"Surveillance Capitalism."
I agree this is an inconvenience, but it is borne out of a bigger problem that is tech concentration and anti-competitive collusion with government to create monopolies that nearly no one can compete with. these companies are gobbling up everyone's lives with few alternatives.
Yeah and now I’m constantly getting asked to sign into my google account, only reason I made one was because RUclips required me to get one to log in
Companies have spent so much money on the app, then when they realise users don't care about the app because the web app does the job, they force them to use the app because they don't want to admit they have wasted probably millions on developing an "app". I suspect soon all mobile development will be web development anyway
It's really simple: nothing in life is truly free, everything has an inherent cost. What did RUclips represent before it was owned by Google? You know.... when it was "decentralized"? What it represented was just a party trick. What it is now is something soooo much bigger that it's not even recognizable from 2004. It's so much more useful in so many ways.
Think about it this way: why should anyone invest all this time and money to work so hard on a valuable product like RUclips or Reddit or Yelp and then offer it to you at absolutely zero cost and zero accountability? Think about your life's work that you work 10 hours on every single day Mon-Sat , would you give it all away for nothing at all?
"I feel like this is all very solveable, but the problem is the best engineers, they're just tied up at Google, or Apple or whatever. They have no incentive to do things properly." 8:00
Oof, I feel it in my bones.
@Johan Vos Nope, couldn't be further from his line of thinking
@Johan Vos He used to be a libertarian so there's some of that still in there but it's also just true as a matter of fact that the internet used to be that way.
But I doubt he views a return to that as really possible he even has a video/interview talking about why rogue academics like Jorden Peterson lose to Universities. He's gone as far as to reject the idea that wide scale cultural change to the institutions can come from a source hostile to them.
Lucky you, you're probably a Google engineer. Imagine how a free internet would effect us blue collar people.. life would be tremendously more prosperous. It would only be marginally more prosperous for a Google engineer.
This doesn’t sound like an internet problem. It sounds like a people problem.
or a Post Inudustrial problem.
A) Engineers & Govt need information to be more private and not so spread out. It's also a security concern. Information dump to anybody and anywhere for free.
Information was free, now its monteized. Papers and Reports now require subscription.
Instagram would display free information, now monteization gets you access.
B) Wearout or Cultural Fatigue of it.
In the Internet Infancy it consited mainly of the US, UK and DE.
This was considered the golden age 1999-2014
As new countries entered th einternet like China and India and Latin America
The shift went towards them , and at the same time US, UK and DE internet share had decline.
Did people just tire of the internet just as they did with TV.
Did 2020 make people to pick up books and go outside.
The internet is declining in the west...
The internet is changing to be more private and not so free anymore.
It's almost like if we are going back to the internet from the 80s and 90s like Forums
where only a niche group people who wanted mass information would speculate and share information.
But the days where Internet influenced Pop Culture may be over.
But that leaves a void for a new company to get.
I think thats telegram and whatsapp
Google has been very open about the fact that they hire smart programmers just to pay them off from being their competition
lmao
Maybe... But if Google doesn't have real work for them, they will leave soon enough for Apple if Apple is willing to give them better work for the same pay. That's because intelligent people need good, challenging work or life becomes miserable. If Google is paying them so much they can't leave, they will leave eventually anyway because with all that money they made, they'll be able to start their own project... So in the end, the market will predict the value better than artificial inflation will.
@@PhilosophyofGuitar you dramatically underestimate the willingness of otherwise intelligent people to immerse themselves in comfortable, safe misery
@@firstLast-jw7bm There are definitely exceptions to every rule. But by and large, people who are really intelligent want challenging work and career advancement. Because that is the smart thing to do and smart people do the smart thing. Let's not lump in the strawman version of an intelligent computer scientist, which is the nerd who's remarkably intelligent with computer work but otherwise autistic in all other dimensions of their life, especially socially. That's just not reality.
@@firstLast-jw7bmgolden handcuffs are great when the economy is declining. I'm settling for bronze handcuffs myself so I can get the money I need for necessities
This whole show could be a massive tim and eric skit and nobody would be able to tell the difference
Also, Yes on the sunglasses for Curtis.
i have never heard of this curtis before and i all i know is i like his sunglasses
It makes him look like such an unbelievably cliche hipster that it honestly becomes charming.
@@Magicpickle5 unspeakably charming
@@uploaderofmonkeybath.mp4761 oh, no doubt; he’s so shameless about it that he actually ends up looking cool as a result.
@@uploaderofmonkeybath.mp4761 best response tbh
This fit is like a Sopranos family member that got really into the movie Hackers
Curtis really buttoned the top button on his shirt...
125+ IQ move
The internet was fun in the beginning but normies got to it and ruined it.
from this comment alone it sounds like you don’t remember or understand the Internet past your own personal experience with it
Yeah it used to be better
@@corbyndelong9374 I am the normie that broke the camel's back and ruined it.
The normie masses ruin everything. They always want more of the thing that is in fashion and bring to eventual burnout with their normieness.
@@corbyndelong9374 Nice ratio ya got there
Subscribing because of the Commodore 1541 drive on the shelf. And the single-button joystick brings back fond memories.
The only solution: Communities need to be completely self-governing and anyone needs to be able to fork them.
Anytime a community turns to shit, you make a new copy with all the same content, but under your control. If you are better everyone will switch to you and the most popular fork gets to keep the original name.
In most cases everything will probably be the same, but the mod/admin got kicked out or the user base is pruned to a core group.
Yes, bottom-up approach is the only solution. I'm from non CS background proficient with Python. Planning to learn more languages. Then, I'll mobilize techies and form a community to build things (AI, Blockchain,etc) that improve the welfare of the people.
love how everybody is talking about the classic computers in the background. Me included I suppose because I just mentioned it now.
I'm more than a little embarassed how long I just spent trying to read that thumbnail image before realising it was just a row of logo's and was never meant to spell anything.
Very nice, thanks for supporting Odysee guys.
Curtis Eöl The Dark Elf Yarvin
Re; google as a search desert.
Way back around early 2000's, i would do research on various topics, seems like it took abt a year to do a loop to get to the end ( figuratively speaking) on a topic.
Thats gone... no depth.
I've also noted some older pubmed articles been scrubbed on covi.
I also have some printed info from yahoo finance mb. Thats gone, at least i cant find any of it to check back on.
Def google search is what tptb allow.
I got to say. Yarvin sparked this in me. It's this. The internet is not bringing new ideas to the table. It doesn't ever really think outside the box. Ever
Thank you for posting this
Oh, this is what Nick Mullen was talking about when talked shit about Yarvin.
lol
its almost as if corporations stifle innovativeness
No. They just want to be the only ones to innovate. Capitalism.
@@MrRebelutionary did you know that by doing that, they are stifling innovation. facts.
Came here from Louis' new video, did not expect to find good old Mencius here. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
The only community I enjoyed and felt accepted was the mde subreddit that got banned. It’s sad how they don’t even let outsiders have a community and you’re just totally alone. They say well it was too controversial but that is how outsiders bond what are we expected to talk about marvel movies
ruclips.net/video/E6VR4NNZr1k/видео.html
I can't believe no big decentralized reddit alternative has popped up yet, where subs are completely self governing and can't be banned. Also forks would be nice.
@@Embassy_of_Jupiter People can say, well you can create your own community which theoretically is true, however, when a ban comes out of nowhere, there's no way to really coordinate everyone to go somewhere else. People all just go their own way. If they at least gave a week's notice it would be better than nothing. Ultimately the popularity and goodness of that subreddit was because it was on reddit, in other words its part of people's habits to go on this site. If for example, one wanted to create a new community somewhere, it just doesn't work the same because people have to add some new app to their daily habits and 70% of people won't do that. It's the same thing with channels banned from youtube who go to bitchute or whatever. I just stop following them because I'm not going to go to bitchute as I forget it exists. So the alternative channels and communities are rather slim. These large companies like reddit and youtube are like the town square. The alternative community concept just doesn't work all that well from what I've seen. They are better than nothing, but large extraordinary communities of people and ideas can't happen on the outskirts of the internet. They always come about on the large platforms because there's a greater selection of people using them. This could change in the future if the major platforms become so horrible that the alternatives become more popular. So, in a weird way it might be better the worse these platforms get.
@@morrisalanisette9067 Well I'm talking about a completely new app that is specifically designed to deal with this problem.
But you are right adoption is a big issue, but not as big as most people think.
It has a simple fix, namely building aggregator apps that combine the big platforms with the small ones. So you'll still browse Reddit normally, but your banned sub from another site is also there, just as conveniently as if it never left.
I can't believe no app attempted that yet. Maybe its a legal thing, but I'm sure that is a problem that can be solved.
But the app has to be as good as the original app, preserve all functions and preserve monetization for the original platform, so still show ads like RUclips (else I'm sure there's legal trouble).
Anyway it should be open source so unofficial forks could remove that anyway.
This way you get the best of both worlds, the good content from the big platform and all the benefits of scale, plus no more censorship and communities that turn to shit.
For the issue of bad mods, community degradation, I'm proposing this:
Communities need to be completely self-governing and anyone needs to be able to fork them.
Anytime a community turns to shit, you make a new copy with all the same content, but under your control. If you are better everyone will switch to you (probably need some function to encourage that) and the most popular fork gets to keep the original name.
In most cases everything will probably be the same, but the mod/admin got kicked out or the user base is pruned to a core group.
It's basically social media working like Git.
But all these communities are still accessible within the same app, like Reddit. Aka federalization, like Mastodon.
@@Embassy_of_Jupiter That's actually really interesting. I see what you're saying now. But I still think it misses the point, insofar as you need as little friction as possible for a user. I think ideas like yours can be successful in the future. This idea makes sense to me because it seems like it's closer to what the internet is supposed to be. Decentralized connections.
the sunglasses really look good on Moldbug
I think of the internet as a tool.. I've fixed cars with no training.... That being said I sometimes find myself falling into the filth. I try to remind myself what the internet is supposed to be used for.
AMIGA was the best platform for freedom - demoscene still very active - i LOVE it
Good summary of the problem.
Glad to see Steve Gutenberg finally interview this guy. I don’t understand urbit
The Commodore 64 box on the shelf. I cut my teeth 6502 assembly programming on one of those back in the early 80s.
Good chat. 👍.
Curtis lookin like a character from Wayne’s Workd
You hired Louis Rossman. Good get
Is ruthless gatekeeping the answer?
Communities need to be completely self-governing and anyone needs to be able to fork them.
Anytime a community turns to shit, you make a new copy with all the same content, but under your control. If you are better everyone will switch to you and the most popular fork gets to keep the original name.
In most cases everything will probably be the same, but the mod/admin got kicked out or the user base is pruned to a core group.
Do not cast your pearls before swine
It is all natural growing pains. When you zoom out and look at the world stage - the dollar is in a lot of trouble, and there is a nationalist movement from China / Russia that are breaking away from the world stage. What this means for Big Tech is that in the wake of conflict these companies will be shattered for national interest, and there will be an underground demand for communication that you saw in the late 90s. Decentralization will be forced by conflict.
I look at the rise of Big Tech as being partly artificial due to our financialized system that basically pumped trillions into these companies (through Fed printing / Hedge funds etc..) that gave them this rise and centralized control we see now - with a lot of back room government deals. IF the dollar fails / hyper inflates... There are wars in Europe / China / Middle east... the old incentive structure for Big Tech no longer exists. So the engineers that were sucked up by google / apple will looking for other work in a post dollar world.
Imagine when the US collapses/fractures. Big Tech will really be dead then.
@@TruthDissident My only concern really is the literal power supply issues hitting the world now. The next decade may be rough depending. I think the real "flippining" is going to be an emergence of 3rd world (3rd world in the post ww2 sense) - not scared to build as many nuclear plants or coal mines as possible to get moving - while the western world crumbles under the weight of ESG. You get a taste of what that looks like now with Russia and the EU... but that could just as easily be Africa and the EU... or South America and North America. You may see a weird era of Power Baron types if America and Europe remain stupid with environmental regs.
Sounds pretty bleak
I don't see that at all... Starting with the downfall of the dollar. I don't think so. There literally is no alternative.
@@mysterioanonymous3206 You have to look further out in history and see that empires rise and fall in cycles. When it comes to currency *from a perspective of history* every fiat currency eventually has a 100% fail rate except for gold and silver. We currently have massive manipulation in the metals markets, and have since the early 80s. When this breaks - the holders of gold and silver will massively profit - but who knows how long the dollar can hold on. The fall of empires can take generations as we saw with Rome.
It can be hard for people growing up and living inside the bubble of the current empire to see alternatives. For the last 100 years the Dollar seems to be the standard - but from a perspective of long term history there is no reason why this should remain the case.
Great, more than 1.000 subscribers ! You can now do live streams
There is nothing on the Internet that didn't originate in the human mind. There's nothing you dont already have access to.
Curtis looks like the gummy just kicked in lol. Our guy looks positively fried.
Seems like every system has problems for users (governments, corporations, computers, etc,) when there is centralization
To be fair decentralization has big issues.
I can see how you would arrive at that conclusion, but this is another form of 'generalization thinking' that is selling all those productivity hacks, Tai Lopez, self help etc material. I think we should go more case by case. The internet has worsened with cent. yes. Governments, a lot of institutions are better run with centralization. We can't be one size fits all so much: that is almost always oversimplification by people who think they know everything.
From what I understand, this is how most decentralized systems decay:
1. Start as decentalized and a bit chaotic in a fun way.
2. Then an agent recognizes that centralization can give him copious amounts of power and resources, and entises users to join his superior more governed platform which has centralized control.
3. The decentalized platform eventually dies as the gravity of the centralized platform pulls all incoming users towards it through either advertisements or through shallow surface-level shine and polish.
Touch some grass. You know why "the cathedral" gets away everything. Because they touch the grass.
Any political/social view that does not center grass-touching is missing out. Can lead to “moldbuggery” as Ratcliffe calls it
his LOTR takes might not be good, but his internet ones are.
what is his LOTR take?
@@benjaminandersson2572 reply must have not gotten through, but im memeing his latest take on his new substack (gray mirror)
@@cbeeteeshirt393 I can´t find his Lord Of The Rings take, if that is what you mean?
It's not good if you willfully misunderstand the analogy, which is apparently the popular thing to do
@@Eversca I read it a week ago, how are people misunderstanding it?
Smart talk. Funny. Miss 1st gen. For news. How do we accelerate knowledge best?
Google searching really has become unusable. I used to love Reddit too, but I've noticed its getting worse even before they took third party apps away.
Need more of this based content
Like myself, Curtis is aging, so we don't always catch all the trends, no matter how in touch we think we are. An internet renaissance is entirely possible, as young men are utterly frustrated with the tedious automated tyranny of the midwit woke. We might be surprised.
Same thing happened to HN
You guys might be the reason I move South....
I loved you in Ratatouille
Wait, he's the Urbit guy?
Yes
Whatsup with curtis wearing Raybans? Did his wife hit him or something?
his wifes dead
He got two black eyes because she had to tell him to take out the trash, Twice!
@@bobhonkhonk9843 Didn't he got himself a new Fiancée/Girlfriend?
@@pinochets1fan177 no clue
@@bobhonkhonk9843 "He has two children with his late wife, Jennifer Kollmer (1971-2021), who died in San Francisco in April 2021 as a result of complications caused by hereditary cardiomyopathy.[53] On April 7, 2022, Yarvin announced that he was engaged again.[54] His fiancée was later revealed to be Lydia Laurenson, a 37-year-old woman, who was a co-founder of the website The New Modality.[1]
His father is Herbert Yarvin"
From wiki.
This stings a little because the AOL days were so great, as a teenager that's when the internet was most fun, but I guess for the older guys that's when it started to suck, because us brats got there and wrecked the place.
I need to know wtf kind of satire is going on here with his outfit 😆
I do not think it is really the internet declining as the people using/dictating the internet decline in intelligence
didn't know the ramones were into this kind of stuff
Curtis Ramone.
you nerds are right. usenet and IRC were peak internet.
So Curtis is a Burner...
Seemed like the IQ comment came out of nowhere
Curtis looks like Stern lol
we need usenet 2
why is that guy wearing sunglasses indoors
So he can, so he can see the light that's right before his eyes.
I love how despite being a gian merd curtis does not hesitate to serve ✨lewks✨
TOFU....FUTO
Why is he wearing sunglasses?
to block the sun
Get rid of these chatty dweebs and just zoom in on the Commodore 64
In summation, the plebs shouldn’t have the internet
Sorry the best engineers are not at Google. I dare say if they have any engineers
Wah all the popular kids are playing with my toys
What is futo ?
Another social media platform ?
We need Internet outside isp. Enough platforms already.
Am I missing something ?
FUTO is a 501c3 charity that gives grants to small platforms and open source projects. Their goal is to fight tech oligarchy and corporate censorship.
These guys are your friends for the right to repair
RSS audio podcast when? 😅
Hello PCM
The internet socializes people to wokism by the threat of punishment
4:29 😏
what is he defining as "high quality" and "low quality"???
Imagine you are looking to get a specific stain out of a shirt, back in the day google would send you to mother's forums and you would read posts from masters of stain removal, the perfect way to get that one stain out, as they had learnt over the years.
Today, you would get sent to some ad-riddled site with the "top 10" stain removal techniques, and some retard had written down the most basic cleaning tips. They are not masters, they are just filling up their website to get ad money.
Wait.. this is the guy behind the hyper-masculine bronze age twitter shit? LOL
This isnt BAP. Curtis yarvin wrote under the pseudonym Moldbug.
New theory…”BAP is Moldbug”…lmao
@@mysteryman6918 I was under the assumption that whole thing came from this Yarvin character's writings.
@@DustinCarico nope, two totally different people. Occasionally adjacent though.
They did a podcast together
When the brownies arrive in town, it’s time to move out right? Disgusting! Nonsense!
As someone you would refer to as a "brownie", stop pretending to be outraged on my behalf. F off.
Pretty much.
Go integrate with 80 iqs homo erectus then lmao
Statistically this is what rich progressive whites do
Considering all they do is express hatred for the white people they want access to, yes, I don't want to live near them.
Once my man said, "it probably had the same IQ as burning man," I knew I had nothing to hear from this man.
Enjoy ignorance
@@mysteryman6918 you too ;)
Curtis you're way too soyed out to be a rightwing thought leader. We need you to do some pushups and then get back to us.
Futon
Make people take an IQ test before they can use the service.
Unfortunately some really shitty people have high IQs. Also IQ tests can be unreliable. There's a deviation of like 15 and anything above 180 Is likely horse shit.
@@juanmccoy3066I know, I was mostly trolling.