Gee Michel, you always seem to have just the right size, shape and composition of scrap materials for your projects. This almost never happens for me. Well done.
Hi Michel, as always another great video with interesting and entertaining dialogue. The adaptation to the shaper is a great solution to the problem that you are experiencing, nicely exercised and with a simplistic approach to correcting the deflection of the table. Thanks again for the time that you have put into making this video 😀👍keep them coming. Regards Gary
Great upgrade Michel, and hopefully you will dial that shaper right on the money. Nice simple upgrade from the scrap bin. I am looking forward to your next adjustable parallel, it should be very entertaining. cheers!
Rustinox, I really enjoyed this video especially with the shaper being main character. I'm older and worn out. Funds are not easy to come up with for extra toys. I have a 1960 South Bend Lathe and a lot of tooling for it. What I don't have is a drill press or milling machine. I'm retired and was a certified welder, Boilermaker and Pipe Welder. I have been around a lot of machinery from time to time and learned a little about how to operate them. Of course, that doesn't mean anything other than I'm just a Hobbyist. I found a shaper made in Italy. Very nice-looking machine. It doesn't have a vice, but it does have an 18" stroke. I understand that a lathe and a milling machine go hand in hand, but most milling machines I have looked at are pricey$$$ and have no tooling. That's another big expense besides buying the mill. I honestly think that I could do a lot of work on a shaper and just build a drill press to accommodate it. What are your thoughts on buying a shaper verses a milling machine? Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Paul Greenlee
What a great solution. I had an old Ammco shaper that had the front leg support. I wish I never sold it. Now I have an original Atlas 7 Shaper (not the 7B), and it has the same issue you had. I will have to use some of your solutions for this same problem. Thank you for sharing.
Hi Michel, really interesting to see the deflection. Can you see the same ammount on the actual workpiece, logic says yes. I'm glad to see your filing system worked perfectly😅😅😂😂😂 look forward to seeing the MKII parallels. Great video as have a great weekend!!
Hello Rusti. May I make a couple of suggestions? You could mount the dial indicator and get a reading and then back off the sliding block to get a support/no support comparison. The other thing I might have done is make some spacers to go in the holes where the bolts go in so the machine is bolted down solidly rather than being clamped down by the angle iron flanges. Oh yeah, welcome to my world re the welding. great little project, I imagine you will see an improvement in the finish from the increased rigidity. All the best, Mart.
My Alba came with an extendible rod from the bottom of the table to serve as a support, but honestly I like your design better. As you say it spreads the load out more.
Hi MIchel, you might find that a plunging cut / slotting cut chatters a lot more with the box supported, I find on my shaper that by loosening the table support leg the chatter gets absorbed by the spring of the box. My shaper is pretty worn and to plunge cut using the head down feed I use a sprung tool holder to stop the chatter, I was very surprised when I locked the head feed and raised the box each stroke for the down (or rather up) feed. No chatter at all with a .200" wide tool at ,004" up feed per stroke (about the max my machine will handle plunging). The flexing of the box / ways obviously gives me a slot which is shallower towards the front of the machine, adjusting the support leg to take this taper out when the deepest part of the cut is to the right depth (I can adjust the support leg with the machine running) the chatter starts as soon as the box is supported by the leg. Colin
Gday, the support will make a big difference, possibly put the indicator under the vice that’s hanging over the edge to check for deflection, great job, cheers
Great idea to make support to eliminate movement of table. Only difference is i would maybe make the resting piece you attach to table in T shape(inverted or upside down) bearings to the long section. Otherwise, great job. Love to know that all of us who own these machines, they basicly fix themselves😁😎
It might have been a good idea to have had the dial indicator mounted on the moving cutting head and slowed the cut down whilst measuring the play on the table because if the table moves the same distance as the cutting tool it wouldn't be actually moving or making a difference? I'm just shooting from the hip here with this idea, but I thought I'd see what you would think? Then if the movement was the same as the measurement you got from the bottom of the table I would have tried shiming the bottom table ways to see if that eliminated the movement and then seen if the table could have been adjusted to eliminate the movement to the same degree or as close as possible. You could still try measuring the play from the top with and without the new support you have made to see if the support works. This would help people decide if they want to make one for their own shaper.. Nice videos, all the best.
If I install an indicater between the toolhead and the table, the mesurement will include the flexing of the ram and inperfections in the table surface.
Luv the thought process and build, begs the question…as something gets stronger what gets weaker??….can the enhancement create an issue….time will tell…KOKO
My arbor for my boring head is a BS9 drawbar threaded mount, no tang. I have an adaptor to use a Brown and Sharpe Taper 9 in my MT4 lathe tailstock... But no way to stop it from turning if i use a strong cut. And since i dont want to scar the tapers, i am going to make a thread in end with a tang machined onto it. i have a lot of BS9 drawbar tools so i can use all of it in the lathe with the removeable tang. I will send you a link once its done.
G'day Ruaty. Another great modification & bit more green paint makes it look very beefy now The front virtical plate, would that be better tacked on at the base, because the slide effect should still work
Seems funny how you do the same things i need to do. My shaper has a massive table, probably 1000 lbs total. And the elevation system is missing, i raise it with a hydraulic cylinder. i want to add an end support also, probably with iron casters. I would need a lot of heavy iron to do mine. But its not in a permanent location yet. i think i need a 1 1/2 in thick iron plate to build and set the whole shaper onto. It never had any such device, so i am imagining the thing is made extra strong to accommodate the flex, but i could build the elevator and a trolley all in one shot. Its funny how little time i spend using my machines compared to repairing and improving on them, and hunting tooling.
Just food for thought. If you encounter friction (drag)as the table moves in the X axis,mite consider milling pockets and incerting 2 stainless balls to act like a skate? Just a thought from a hobbyist :-). My 450 Klopp came with a knee brace, but I too (when I get back to it) may do the same. Sand Castle build time is drawing near :-). See you ware a sweet Shirt, please send your weather to TX !Bear.
May be a roller bearing or just a foot for the support leg ....I would add a mount for your dial indicator ...Very nice job..I always learn a great deal from you...
This must be the cleanest shaper on earth. Nice video Michel.
Not sure. Maybe there is a reason why I always film it from the same angle :)
The most enjoyable and entertaining ‘fabrication video’ yet. Such an excellent result. Well done Michel. 👏👏👍😀
Thanks.
strong looking support!
And it works :)
I love the way you recycle and reuse everything. 👍🌳🌳🌳👍 Great job .
Thanks.
More of the green machine to love, great episode.
Thanks.
Gee Michel, you always seem to have just the right size, shape and composition of scrap materials for your projects. This almost never happens for me. Well done.
Before I pick up a piece of scrap, I already know what I eventually can do with it. If not, I don't pick it up.
Always improving our machines and tools while having fun. Thanks for another great episode. Gilles
Thanks Gilles.
Nice work, as always 👍 🇬🇧
Thanks.
Love the work
Thanks.
Hi Michel, as always another great video with interesting and entertaining dialogue. The adaptation to the shaper is a great solution to the problem that you are experiencing, nicely exercised and with a simplistic approach to correcting the deflection of the table. Thanks again for the time that you have put into making this video 😀👍keep them coming. Regards Gary
Well, there was a bit of thinking before I started building :)
A good solution to an old problem, good to see you also use Confusion 24/7 for designing things like I do 😁 👍
Confusion 24/7 works very well :)
Something from nothing again Rusti, very inventive, and a good addition to the shaper. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon. And it works :)
A very inventive solution to a problem Michel. Also a good use for some more of your scrap yard steel. Cheers Nobby
Thanks Nobby.
Michel, great fun and and an important upgrade to your mighty shaper!
Thanks Allen.
Great upgrade Michel, and hopefully you will dial that shaper right on the money. Nice simple upgrade from the scrap bin. I am looking forward to your next adjustable parallel, it should be very entertaining. cheers!
Working on it.
All these jobs you do will make your machining more enjoyable!
That's the idea :)
Verry clever adition to youre machine! Nice done!
Cheers !
Thanks.
I often wondered if the table had deflection with all that force on it. Great solution Michel.
Steve.
Well, everything is flexible :)
Nice shapertable support. Glad you took the adjustable parallel out of the bin😀
Thanks.
Ingenious and skilled. What a perfect solution Michel. I like your welding table. Cheers
Thanks Paul.
Glad the parallel made it out of the trash!🎉. Another interesting video.
Thanks.
Hi Rusty, Very nice, well thought out and from scrape materials...what's not to love 👍👍
ATB.....
Thanks Dean.
Rustinox, I really enjoyed this video especially with the shaper being main character. I'm older and worn out. Funds are not easy to come up with for extra toys. I have a 1960 South Bend Lathe and a lot of tooling for it. What I don't have is a drill press or milling machine. I'm retired and was a certified welder, Boilermaker and Pipe Welder. I have been around a lot of machinery from time to time and learned a little about how to operate them. Of course, that doesn't mean anything other than I'm just a Hobbyist. I found a shaper made in Italy. Very nice-looking machine. It doesn't have a vice, but it does have an 18" stroke. I understand that a lathe and a milling machine go hand in hand, but most milling machines I have looked at are pricey$$$ and have no tooling. That's another big expense besides buying the mill. I honestly think that I could do a lot of work on a shaper and just build a drill press to accommodate it. What are your thoughts on buying a shaper verses a milling machine? Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Paul Greenlee
Running a shaper cost close to nothing. And if you keep your eyes open for a chrap drill press, you're good to go.
God bless you Rustinox, appreciate the advice@@Rustinox
Short and sweet. Video thank you for sharing
Thanks Kimber.
What a great solution. I had an old Ammco shaper that had the front leg support. I wish I never sold it. Now I have an original Atlas 7 Shaper (not the 7B), and it has the same issue you had. I will have to use some of your solutions for this same problem. Thank you for sharing.
Go for it. It works great.
Yup, good one !!
Thanks.
That’s a neat addition to the machine! I’ll keep it in mind for the time my machine is ready!
It works great.
Hi Michel, really interesting to see the deflection. Can you see the same ammount on the actual workpiece, logic says yes.
I'm glad to see your filing system worked perfectly😅😅😂😂😂 look forward to seeing the MKII parallels.
Great video as have a great weekend!!
To make finishing pases, I take very light cuts. So the deflection will be minimal.
Hello Rusti. May I make a couple of suggestions? You could mount the dial indicator and get a reading and then back off the sliding block to get a support/no support comparison. The other thing I might have done is make some spacers to go in the holes where the bolts go in so the machine is bolted down solidly rather than being clamped down by the angle iron flanges. Oh yeah, welcome to my world re the welding. great little project, I imagine you will see an improvement in the finish from the increased rigidity. All the best, Mart.
Suggestions and ideas are always welcome, Mart.
Really enjoy your videos thank you.
Nice. Thanks.
Great idea and well executed!
Thanks Mick.
Excellent upgrade. Well executed. Curious to think such a thing wasn't part of the original design. Keep up the good work.
This shaper was build as a precision machine. It's not designed to take heavy cuts.
Very good idea! And it seems to work fine.
Thanks. It does.
My Alba came with an extendible rod from the bottom of the table to serve as a support, but honestly I like your design better. As you say it spreads the load out more.
This works very well. A very useful upgrade.
hi Michel
great addition, i did a similar thing with my little Adept shaper👍👍👍👍😉😉
atb
Kev
It seems to work just fine.
Hi MIchel, you might find that a plunging cut / slotting cut chatters a lot more with the box supported, I find on my shaper that by loosening the table support leg the chatter gets absorbed by the spring of the box.
My shaper is pretty worn and to plunge cut using the head down feed I use a sprung tool holder to stop the chatter, I was very surprised when I locked the head feed and raised the box each stroke for the down (or rather up) feed. No chatter at all with a .200" wide tool at ,004" up feed per stroke (about the max my machine will handle plunging).
The flexing of the box / ways obviously gives me a slot which is shallower towards the front of the machine, adjusting the support leg to take this taper out when the deepest part of the cut is to the right depth (I can adjust the support leg with the machine running) the chatter starts as soon as the box is supported by the leg.
Colin
Thanks for your input, Colin. I will give it a try.
Well done mate top job my shaper has a support standard good thing
Well, now mine has too :)
Gday, the support will make a big difference, possibly put the indicator under the vice that’s hanging over the edge to check for deflection, great job, cheers
I'll give it a try.
Nice one 😊
Thanks.
Hi Michel - here in Australia we paint things red, as we all know that makes them go faster... Good onya
I'm not in a hurry :)
Great idea to make support to eliminate movement of table. Only difference is i would maybe make the resting piece you attach to table in T shape(inverted or upside down) bearings to the long section. Otherwise, great job. Love to know that all of us who own these machines, they basicly fix themselves😁😎
A bearing will push on one line. The block pushes over the whole surface.
As usual an excellent video and I cant fault you idea but wouldn't an adjustable leg straight to the floor been easier.
Don't think so. The machine moves a bit in relation to the floor.
It might have been a good idea to have had the dial indicator mounted on the moving cutting head and slowed the cut down whilst measuring the play on the table because if the table moves the same distance as the cutting tool it wouldn't be actually moving or making a difference? I'm just shooting from the hip here with this idea, but I thought I'd see what you would think? Then if the movement was the same as the measurement you got from the bottom of the table I would have tried shiming the bottom table ways to see if that eliminated the movement and then seen if the table could have been adjusted to eliminate the movement to the same degree or as close as possible. You could still try measuring the play from the top with and without the new support you have made to see if the support works. This would help people decide if they want to make one for their own shaper.. Nice videos, all the best.
If I install an indicater between the toolhead and the table, the mesurement will include the flexing of the ram and inperfections in the table surface.
Thanks Rusti 👍!
My pleasure.
Luv the thought process and build, begs the question…as something gets stronger what gets weaker??….can the enhancement create an issue….time will tell…KOKO
After a build like this one, the only thing that gets weaker is my financial situation :)
My arbor for my boring head is a BS9 drawbar threaded mount, no tang. I have an adaptor to use a Brown and Sharpe Taper 9 in my MT4 lathe tailstock... But no way to stop it from turning if i use a strong cut. And since i dont want to scar the tapers, i am going to make a thread in end with a tang machined onto it. i have a lot of BS9 drawbar tools so i can use all of it in the lathe with the removeable tang. I will send you a link once its done.
Go for it.
G'day Ruaty. Another great modification & bit more green paint makes it look very beefy now
The front virtical plate, would that be better tacked on at the base, because the slide effect should still work
I'm not sure I understand your suggestion, Ted.
Thanks for sharing. Better tools better parts. Use the tools you have to make better tools.
Spot on.
Seems funny how you do the same things i need to do. My shaper has a massive table, probably 1000 lbs total. And the elevation system is missing, i raise it with a hydraulic cylinder. i want to add an end support also, probably with iron casters. I would need a lot of heavy iron to do mine. But its not in a permanent location yet. i think i need a 1 1/2 in thick iron plate to build and set the whole shaper onto. It never had any such device, so i am imagining the thing is made extra strong to accommodate the flex, but i could build the elevator and a trolley all in one shot. Its funny how little time i spend using my machines compared to repairing and improving on them, and hunting tooling.
Fixing machines is all part of the fun :)
That should stop the table flex. 👍
That's the plan anyway :)
Just food for thought. If you encounter friction (drag)as the table moves in the X axis,mite consider milling pockets and incerting 2 stainless balls to act like a skate? Just a thought from a hobbyist :-). My 450 Klopp came with a knee brace, but I too (when I get back to it) may do the same. Sand Castle build time is drawing near :-). See you ware a sweet Shirt, please send your weather to TX !Bear.
The table is moving only on the back stroke, so there is no down force.
Went back to watch this morning, quess at 1:11 you said down ? But you probley left a few tenths clearance between new brace & bed? Cheers from TX.
A pin in one of the holes in the table could be a good indicator spot.?
Don't think so. The table is moving left and right.
May be a roller bearing or just a foot for the support leg ....I would add a mount for your dial indicator ...Very nice job..I always learn a great deal from you...
A bearing will push on one line. The block pushes over the whole surface.