The Sublime BMW M3 CS Has One Big Problem...
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- This is the BMW M3 CS, Munich's farewell to the F80 M3. Their first turbocharged M3, the F80 and its stablemate the M4 never had an easy ride with the press - and I am far from a big fan.
However, the CS brings some gorgeous carbon and chassis tweaks which could make this my favourite modern M car... so how good is it?
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1 year later, equal length exhausts have arrived.
My biggest problem with this review of the M3 CS is that it doesn’t do it justice, it’s not running on the staggered setup of the 763Ms with Cup 2s! Put them back on and it becomes the most sublime handling M car to date.
Yeah, not the best review at all. Sloppy knowledge. Started with the Leck of information in the beginning. Could have just asked bmw m for the changes they’ve done. Sloppy review.
Wouldn't putting Cup 2's on the Comp also make that car handle better? The question is like for like how much better is the CS than the Comp?
@@alangil40 The car was designed with the cup2
The magic of the CS materializes on the track with the Cup2 tires after a few laps. I couldn't believe the night and day difference compared to regular road driving. You just can't get enough temperature in those tires off the track.
Whenever you review a car that I have driven you always seem to highlight points and conclusions I have come to myself on certain details. It's refreshing to see because I don't see many others reflect these opinions as intricately, as they're usually too in awe to be objective.
Thanks Kurt
I just find a lot of it is him being a contrarian
It's big problem is it doesn't come in manual. 😔
It's so silly because BMW's are one of the best in driver engagement and now they remove the one thing that made it fun , we have the sheep consumers to thank for that !
Init
Was here to write exactly this comment :-)
The M3 CS's only problem is I can't afford to buy the bloody thing‼️ 😢😢😢
It does surprise me you like blue cars, Cletus, because I always thought you were colour blind‼️🙈🙈🙈
The main change BMW has made to the M3 CS is an eye watering increase in the price.🤑🤑🤑
"This car is not for the amateur enthusiast". Well, sunshine, in that case you'd better park it and walk home‼️
The awesome thing about the CS is the suspension changes don't differ that much from the Competition so you can code the CS steering, EDC, DCT & Diff onto a Comp & get basically the same result.
I think it sounds alright. Not N/A fantastic, but quite good for a turbo six. But lawks, the price.
Armytrix exhaust tend to sound atrocious and obnoxiously loud
And the best thing about M cars has always been the depreciation, picking one up cheaper is always a good thing, no?
Yeah that's something I've noticed. You can pick up a decent F80 M3 from around £32k. So it's lost about £20k in value in the last 4 years. Good for people who can manage to spend that sort of money and can't afford something £40k or more. Only thing I think I'd worry about is in the long term of owning one and coming to sell it the depreciation may hit you more than say for something like a audi RS car.
7:34 I agree as its a twin turbo setup, it uses two separate manifolds (one for each 3 cylinder), so thats why it often sounds like a 3 cylinder - although having said that, the N54 is a twinturbo engine yet sounds like a 6... But anyway if you want that 'typical' six cylinder tone from an S55, your best bet would be to do a single turbo conversion (although that'll definitely change the way the car accelerates and probably best left for drag racing setups). There are a few videos of F80/F82 S55 cars with this single turbo conversion.
You don't need to spend that much. Just to Active Autowerkes equal length midpipes and watch how good the S55 will sound
Three years on and the price of new M3 CP cars in the classifieds are 90k plus. Makes this car seem a bargain now used and it’s better looking than the new one.
I think there may be a bigger problem. The new model in September has 510hp and 4WD.
That is a major step forwards both in HP and usability, therefore the CS position as a premium vehicle is coming to an end with a bang.
100! The xdrive is a game changer.
Can you name a car that you can track and daily drive, that has 4 doors that can take the kids to school, that you can take the wife (and girlfriend) on a fancy night out, that also comes with a manual transmission?
The standard or comp pack M3 is the ONLY one with a decent amount of performance and is luxurious enough to daily.... and it's a pleasure to look at.
SUCH a pity this M3CS doesn't have a manual transmission. At that point, I wouldn't care about the price. It's worth the quality of life it provides.
Holden?
@@JayEmmOnCars , I so wish we had that choice here in Canada! From what I know, the Holden wouldn't have the leather/carbon interior and technology that the M3 has... I know, I know, I am an aloof, picky bastard, but the girlfriends (and I) really enjoy the poshness of the interior and the stunning exterior looks. Thank you Jay for the response, and I will do some research on the Holden. :)
I don't think wife and girlfriend in the same car will be a good idea.
Not wanting to be a fanboy here but the current F30 M3 CS which is a 4 door saloon hasxa kerb weight of 1585 kg whilst the E92 M3, a 2 door coupe weighed 1655 kg. That's quite an effort from BMW given the significantly larger dimensions and in contrast to the other 2 main German manufacturers. Not surprised by the price though. The E46 CSL was almost twice the price of a regular M3. Its such a shame BMW have become so marketing led. IMO I don't see the point of such a hard sporty saloon.
You can fix the sound of any S55 exhaust with Active Autowerkes equal length mid pipes. Pair that with getting rid of the active sound design, a downpipe, titanium exhaust muffer, and getting rid of the charcoal liner in the intake, and no burble tune, they sound great. But the equal length midpipes is a must
If the mid pipes is such a simple solution, why wouldn't they have that out of the factory?
@@tarquin161234 Ask BMW
The suspension differences: dampers are the same EDC units as the ZCP but re-tuned software. Front swaybar is from base M4 (thinner) and the rear sway bar is the same as ZCP. I'm not sure about the springs.
Jay, where are these roads you drive on? They look great - fast, flowing and not many other cars.
The beginning of video is spot on accurate. Not typical bs from journalists. You made some good points rhroughout video. Good review honestly. Calm, clean and concise nothing more to it, def going to sub. I hate this new gen of over the top bs fake emotions when reviewing cars. I hate fact that theyll drive something like an m2 n55 ans say wow its perfect and then 2 years later drive s55 m2 and say o the old m2 was sloppy and blah blah. Please dont turn into one of those dude.
This video hits a key point with these kind of cars - the price. But keep in mind that very few people , if any, actually pay the full amount... They put it on a PCP . This means that the actual amount of money coming out of the buyers account is considerably less than the purchase price. However they still take the hit of the depreciation, which is no small sum.
Also if one does a PCP on a 90k car and it's worth only 50k two years later, that is gonna hurt
I daily an M3 saloon F80 and it’s a great car for the money
M3 jahre, is a superb daily run a round for myself with occasionally drive my g700
Dylan G Mercedes G700?
Where do you rank the Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio to the M3?
Giulia is less quality built
Llf m4 is 720hp nearly 300hp more power and puts its power down better than stock because of the power being spread more progressively across the rev range
The M4 CS would be my pick astheticly.
If only the M4 had the wide arches like the M3.
By far the pick of the F8x M3/M4 range. I heard that the F80 M3 Saloon feels better to drive or has better traction out of the corners than the F82 M4 Coupe because of additional torsional rigidity? I could be wrong. If money were no object, I'd probably still go for the extremely hard to find E90 M3 CRT because I am obsessed with that S65 engine in a relatively humble looking saloon body with use of CFRP.
Having said that, as the CRTs are very rare, so i'd probably be too intimidated to use it regularly unlike the very capable F80 M3 CS
So, they designed it with 19's at the front and 20's at the rear - you changed it to 19's all round, and then did a review on the handling and the ride (amoungst other things)?
I didn't change it, and I did drive it briefly before.
MKitson Spot on 😂😂😂
Ride improves with smaller wheels, and he has no less contact patch from a diameter change
Fee Ride doesn’t improve if the setup was designed around said wheels
JayEmm I am a huge fan btw, that change just didn't make sense to me
BMW have always charged stupid amounts of money for these specials. It used to astonish me, but it just seems to be the BMW way.
They are happy to get the car out of the dealerships because the new 3 series is already there and the M3 Version is already testing at the Nürburgring. My friend could lease this car (almost same Spec and the same color inside and out) with 0 Downpayment for 900 Euros and the first 2 months it was still running for free on the Dealership before they started the leasing.
Are you going to try and get your hands on the latest M3/4 and what do you think of the grille?
Agree on all points, just love that colour !! , awful exhaust sound , but that's the way things are going. On all the online reviews I read on this particular model everyone said the "competition" is the one to have , the CS is, as you state too harsh for everyday pot holed roads , I knew they had the extreme price uplift, no doubt for that collector car credibility in the future .
I will probably end up in a used M4 in the future, but I'm very reluctant to give up my characterful , maximum road taxed , old thirsty V8 . 👍👍
Use your brain if you have one: why would CS be more harsh on bad roads? Competition has 20 inch all around, the CS has 19 inch fronts and rides on Cup2s with butter soft flanks. My Z4 on comfort was more bouncy on bad roads than the CS on sport plus.
M4 CS are rubbish, stupid cardboard door and not limited. The used prices reflect that already.
Seriously fast but bet it doesn't feel like an event like the E90 or E46 CSL M3's.
The E90 is too heavy. The E46 is underpowered. The F80 is the compromise and it a pure pleasure to drive. Yes it's an event... every effing day for me. Pity you don't have a clue.
@@ccar1332 no need to get so worked up on the Internet man lol I've owned e46 and e90 m3's and driven the f80 it's just my preference Im an NA guy over turbo but let's be honest it doesn't even have the presence of an m3 looks wise!
A V8 aurally will always trump an i6 turbo for sound. My V10 sounds so much better than the v8tt, and feels more of an event, but the v8tt is the better car for normal use. I'd daresay that as a weekend car the E60 is better as it is more of an event.
I have an E92 M3 and love it to bits but this CS is a different league. Best car I ever have driven.
Interesting. I swapped an "OG" M2 for an M4CS and the ride quality is MUCH better in the CS, although I don't seem to notice much difference between the adaptive suspension settings.
The OG M2 never had adaptive suspension
@@nessuno5403 I was talking about the M4CS.
is this dude saying compaq? like the computer manufacturer? They make cars now?
Being an ex motorcyclist and fast road driver I have a real issue with using both sides of the road when not overtaking. I've seen people come unstuck because they get used to this way of driving and then get caught out with people coming the other way.
I'm a motorcyclist myself and would ask you to bear two things in mind:
1. The camera on the front of the car is often on the right, so looks much more dramatic than you think. I move over only when I have visibility and it is normally to avoid a hazard on the near side (potholes etc). My eye line is about three feet higher than the camera, I can see much more than it.
2. If you're moaning about the drive by shots, that is not me.
It's the drive by shots
I suspect in most cases it is people being a bit over cautious of going too near the cameraman
The problem with the the stock m car turbo's from this generation is that they give you the torque too low in the rev range and therefore you either get the wheels losing traction or the traction control cutting the power to the wheels
The way to overcome this is to have a hybrid turbo fitted that gives slightly less torque low down and more importantly more horsepower at the top end
So get you wallet out again because this is THE way to solve the problem
They improved the turbo & torque profile on the M2C
If you have the money for an m3/4, buy an m2 comp for fun and a Camry for daily duties😉
You found one in the classifieds? There are 10 from BMW Approved Used for £64k to £74k, most with delivery miles. Plenty of others as well which are not on the AU site if you ask any BMW dealer. BMW's list prices are a joke.
The sport suspension of the CS is still softer than the "soft" setting of my GT3. I find the comfort setting of my CS to be very compliant and not harsh at all, especially for a track focused car. I do agree the steering feedback stinks compared to the Porsche, especially since I have hydraulic steering in the GT3.
The CS has by far the best electric steering of all cars I have driven. I havent driven the new Caymans, but would not consider them anyway because of an engine not worth the Porsche badge. But anyway, this CS is a fantastic car and yes the only problem is the price.
@@peterhammer6915 agree 100% regarding the Cayman or Boxster.
I cannot stand the comfort setting. I have in sport even when cruising. Sport plus is way to hard but i would use on track. I have done Nurburgring but i wouldn't take her on track days. feel he should of had the engine in sports + for the review.
I reckon that car is lighter than your e90, even stripped out? Great review BTW completely agree price is beyond a joke
Agree not worth list but look on autotrader what you can get a M4 CS with oled lights & GTS door cards for..I also got 0% & paying same per month for a pre reg model as my comp pack was. Great car for the money!!!
Chris Kelsey who did you get your 0% finance through?
You can get a comp pack for low £40s now 12 months old. Why would you even look at this
Thanks for such an honest review as I know how much you love BMWs!
Some strange frame skipping on the external shots?
May be a YT processing issue, or a symptom of 25p
@@JayEmmOnCars hmmm strange 🤔
Also your comments on the car biting and carrying speed, feel that way about any car in the last decade or so. They are so well insulated, heavy etc that you just need to go stupidly quick to enjoy them, the E92 m3 I had was boring until ban territory and didn't struggle to get there. You will know what I mean with that E92 you have... Sold it for an Integra DC5 and its a whole load of fun at half the speed. I fancy a lotus next.
Would have the Giulia QV over it and love how they are both a handful. I admire the Merc C63 but to my eyes the rear end is awful, I couldn't live with it. Alfa for me
The Alfa is such a better driving, sounding, handling, looking, steering, going faster machine.
@@thomasferrarojr.9772 until your car breaks down and stays in the dealer for months on end....
@@bryhsiao So you have one then?
@@thomasferrarojr.9772 I have 2015 M3 Dinan Stage3. Have a friend who owns Alfra QV and had a ton of issues. There are many articles talking about its reliability too.
I would not touch it at all.
@@bryhsiao Right. Everyone seems to have a friend whose Alfa sucks. But BMW's never have problems. Gotcha. Well, I own a Quadrifoglio. Has been perfect and is an amazing experience. You have a nice car too. Enjoy your ride.
you got a video on a 2007 s8 v10 model
Nobody would buy one of these at list for cash. The pcp option would probably be between 6 to 800 per month and just give it back. Or sometimes BMW offer 0% interest on pcp, this is what worked for me.
...there is even bigger problem at this price tag and it is called Alpia B3 that is more of a car for daily driving and sleeper that can keep with M3 at the same time + you can have it as estate .....
Have never been sure what the CS was all about until now, thought it was meant to be like the old E46 CSL
Great review. Honest . I like the m4 cs . Just would love it better if it had all the xtras of the compact . E.g door pockets and speakers. Proper ones . Weight saving is ball. So if your fat , your stuffed coz all that weight saving went for nothing. Just half fill fuel tank and you'll save weight always . Give me proper door cards and stereo and I'll go for the CS M4 anytime.
Glad you don't generally fixate over price because such considerations are for accountants and not for petrol heads. It's well above my league, but I daresay pocket change for some. Even so, this car, or the £30k cheaper option plus a low mileage Elise for the same money? I'd go for the latter.
A beautiful, very rapid car. Such a shame that turbocharging ruins any chance of a decent exhaust note though, but that's the only downside that I can see (although it does have the huge advantage of being incredibly tuneable) and sadly, this is the way of the future. But saying that, I'd very happily own any of the BMW M range without a second thought.
Cheers dits
I had to take a second look and make sure you were not talking about the e30 m3 because you look like you from the eighties 💥
I'll keep my E46 CS for now
E90 M3 GTS and CRT are the only newer M3 cars that keep their value or even go up in value. Even if you put some miles on it.
I honestly expected the E46 CSL would be the same, but only if you keep the miles very low. Because of the bad SMG transmission that isn’t hard to do by the way (I’m sorry to say).
*Crank Hub issue ?*
On heavily modified S55 engines
Weighs a similar amount to the r8 and Carrera 4s... but you emphasised how heavy it feels? It weighs only about 50kg more the e46 m3.
A car doesn't need to be heavy to feel heavy. It's also a much larger mass than the E46
@@JayEmmOnCars I have driven this car 3 times and it feels everything else than heavy. Feels light and fast. Compared to E46 which feels light and slow. For me a much more exciting car than the 991 Carrera S. Sensing some serious bias here.....
@@peterhammer6915 what bias? I own an M3 and have owned 911s
@@JayEmmOnCars bias like so many people that the new generations are shit because of turbo, electric steering etc....
Hope your not talking about the sports exhaust on the RS3 as that sounds mega
I think most RS models all sound like AMG's all farts and synthetic so leave my sports exhaust off... it's a turbo thing, but the CS actually sounds okay, not good, just okay...
This big fellow and the CS don't seem like a good match. I could see him driving a pickup truck and being more satisfied in that. The CS is really for the serious sportsmen who understands knife-edge performance.
How does one manage to mess up the cs. Why in the world would anyone change the wheels. The original cs wheels and tire setup was engineered to work together. If people r gonna mod their cs might as well buy a normal comp.
Nobody pays list price on a BMW. Not once the cars have been out for more than a few months anyway. Stunning car. But you could get a slightly used F90 M5 for less.
g9icy they are different cars
@@SenszR Yeah, sure, they're for different customers, I was just pointing it out. I'd have an M5 over any M3 personally.
Love the last M3 👍
Seriously quick car and if I’m honest nearly the complete sports saloon.
Amazing kit ☝️
50k - 55k Tops!
You’d need to be clinically insane to pay more than 60k for that!
One big problem is, its not naturally aspirated engine so it will have the same fake pop & bang exhaust that features on every new car on steroids. The engine will have that synthetic sound with a droning sound from the back, I bet it will be absolutely fast but soulless and lacking in character. We might as well go all electric cars as they have killed off the internal combustion engine.
Pop and bang maps are for insufferable people.
Reminds me of the natural BMW sound it used to have. Almost
Thank heavens everything is subjective...except for the shirt that’s just wrong in every respect with absolutely no redeeming aspects
Your shirt ..... 😅
Can you imagine if they’d kept their balls about them and just fixed the reliability issues and turbocharged the v8/v10 ? Then it would actually compete with Mercedes...which they seem so keen to do
I think you’re a bit mixed up there chum, these cars are significantly more reliable than the Mercedes C63s, they are also significantly better as a drivers car. BMW pretty much invented this type of car and Mercedes and Audi are the ones who have been trying and failing for many years to compete.
I agree, as whenever u see a track test the Bmw destroys the amg round the bends even with less power. And the m4s are totally reliable odd comment 🤷🏻♂️
when you watch the video and skip to the middle at 2:08. NOPE.
Does the placement of the car mean on the other side of the road
Always have to be different. Its a sick car
Yes new M3 Hybrid xdrive G70 is coming July 19
Nice video, roads look great! Perfect for an M3
Love description of love first sight
Try an M2 Competition if you haven't already
Sir... the M4 GTS does not come with 510 bhp
Sorry, 500ps
Why are you dressed like its the eighties?..
Because he can!
nice shirt
That shirt is so bad its good haha! Love the new m3 m4s they got turbos so there good.
£86k, when you can get the new M3 (or M4) for 70-75k.... BMW have obviously done their research on the size of the market, but fuck knows who's buying these at that price.
Ahah what is a fault to you (lack of traction on demand), at the same time it's the main reason I had and are looking for another one 😅 Everything has become awfully boring and dull.
Skinny back tyres???, mines got 285/30/20’s !!!
86k what, thought it might be 50k. I’d go buy some really cool fun cars with 86k
I know you would!
This is much better than all the Porsches I have driven including 997 Turbo and 991 Carrera S. And they cost loads more. The 991 Turbo felt much faster but its kind of a meh car unfortunately. Sound is a disgrace to the Porsche badge.
@@peterhammer6915 that 997 turbo with ohlins and akra exhaust is epic man! And much faster than this with a tune
@@zaheerkader7426 Surely its much faster. And any M3 CS with common sense would never ever tune that car. Already now you can see that prices in Germany are going up on the CS and there are not so many for sale anymore.
@@peterhammer6915 it's the new csl no doubt
Guy reminds me of Robbie Coltrane
YER A WIZARD DIGITALVIDEOTOOLS.ORG
Lul £86k the memes. You could get a decent car for that price.
You could get the V10 m5 and run it for a year or two with that money. 205mph V10 beast Vs a discount sales rep with go fast bits stuck on that farts when you change gear.
E60 M5's are not the feint of wallet. Mine is about to be hoovered for the bargain price of £12000 for a new clutch and engine rebuild after the previous company to work on it fucked me over.
If you can afford an M3 CS, you won't be looking at a V10 M5.
The CS is a better car than the E60 M5 in every aspect apart from engine sound. On steering feel they are level.
How can you call a 3300 pound car a boat? Its lighter than the new STI
This guy is a straight up boomer. I bet his lawn care is on point.
ok zoomer, i bet your fortnite is on point.
James is a millennial, he’s only 29
£90 grand.....! eye watering.
The best bmw on sale today in my opinion is the m5 competition hands down. The m4 cs isn’t worth the money, u could buy a Nissan GT-R for that, and I know what I would rather have. 0-60 in 2.7 seconds. Buy buy bmw.🤚
GT-R? 😂😂 wrong channel mate
So you're saying you'd buy the BMW? (You spelled bye wrong...).
If all you care about is straight line performance then there are much better ways of doing it without having to buy a dated Nissan.
11:34 not true. In fact you get M4 GTS Oled lights in this car.
No you don't
@@JayEmmOnCars Oh yes, sorry. Only M4 Cs gets Oled lights. Yes, it's logical why Bmw would make lights for sedan version of the car which is so limited production.
90k 😀😁😂😂😃 now that's funny!
just get the new m2 comp and save a packet
jonny jones And not end up with a boat lol
You need the hot hatch channel, this is for grown ups.
grown ups with money to burn on crap lol
@@26Tackle.reviews yeah the higher up range of BMW is crap not the cheaper stuff below. Dillusional.
scook2003 The M2 isn’t a hatch you fucking imbecile 😂😂😂😂😂😂
And the M2 Comp and M3/M3 CS share the same engine *YOU FUCKING IDIOT* 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
for all people that think the stock sound is shit (like me) look up the active autowerke midpipe it totaly neutralizes the raspy metallic sound and makes it much more deeper for just around 1k you get so much more fun from the car
Does it do the same for the m4 comp
@@leekindell9937 yes its the same exhaust you can order it from active autowerke.
get the remus muffler too this rounds up the sound. look up videos of the two things combined its stunning
FutureGameLight mm ok as the m4 is too raspy I don’t like it so wanna stage two the car with down pipes and something like this set up you mention would be great if it makes it deeper
@@leekindell9937 i would leave the main down pipes for the beginning and look how it sounds ... and it is much deeper
FutureGameLight I guess. But for a stage two tune I’d need to change downpipes .
90 grand? I wouldn't pay half that.
green grass to be fair 45k would be a bargain. Those are m2 prices.
These are now nudging towards £50k....
How can you review it and give feedback without "driving it"? 🤦♂️😫
I did drive it
Yes, no manual!!
Great review. This car is a poor substitute for a Porsche. 911, Cayman or Boxster tbh.
Not really a rival for any of them
At 66 grand however... 😈
here in Finland 160.000 eur used.....
My dealer keeps calling me to trade my m4 in for this lol.....i test drove it with no intentions of trading in 4 it and for that price lol it was easy 2 say NO if you spend 8k on a reg m4 you'll be more satisfied
trade that M4 in for an education, GED for example.
The one big problem is that it sounds like absolute garbage! Just like every other S55 equipped M car before it
@@VidNibs I disagree. The 1M sounded great, as did the original M2. It's the specific twin turbo setup of the S55 which makes it sound awful. All other BMW I6 turbo engines sound fantastic
@@VidNibs I'll agree that the rasp of the E46 was a bit much, but I have an E36 M3 and the S50B32 sounds incredible. The stock exhaust is no good, but with an aftermarket exhaust it's one of the best sounding 6 cylinder engines ever made. I have an Eissenmann system on my E36 and I haven't heard a better sounding 6 cylinder engine this side of a 911 GT3
@@VidNibs and the M2 sounds completely different to the M2 Competition (again due to the difference in turbo manifold design). You might need to get your ears checked...
@@VidNibs you owned a 98 M5? You realise that's a V8 right?
@@VidNibs never heard that abbreviation in my life. Must be an American thing? If so, that probably means you got the watered down 3.0L S50 engine too, which may go someway to explaining why you were less than impressed with the sound. The Euro spec engine sound much better. Plus we didn't get the 4 door car in Australia
It has four problems... four doors.
I see that as the bonus, it has an extra 2, coupes look trash to be honest.