Your point about zoan powers is correct, but luffy already was a human when he ate the human human fruit. The only other example of this is Sengoku. And he and luffy line up pretty well. Both dont have a hybrid fom that we have seen, both have incredibly flashy forms where they become their god incarnate, and both have passive abilities -luffy is rubber and sengoku has some sort of animal charming power. Id say if oda really wanted to bait and switch any devil fruit into being a human zoan he showed it was possible in marineford
I think oda had the idea that luffys ultimate power would be some looney tunes type stuff but didn’t really have it figured out yet how luffy would obtain the power
I would assert that it was always toon force and gear 5 is just moreso. Things like gear 3 make no sense for rubber, but it's classic toon force (see: Jerry's cousin)
Wydm? Gear 3 makes a lot of sense for rubber. Rubber tires are a thing. You pump them full of air and they can get extremely extremely hard especially if it was a giant fist. Overinflated tires can be extremely dangerous so it does make sense for rubber. But im just informing you dont take this as an insult please :)
@@Fennal6723 yes it does make sense for rubber, but it doesn't make sense logistics wise. like bones are separated by cartilage, so luffy filling his thumb bone with air shouldn't transfer the air to the rest of his arm bones. but with gear 5 and luffy having a rubber body with nika's ridiculous powers, his devil fruit fills in the "gaps" of that logic. i think this also applies for gear 4 inflating his muscular system and not his individual arm muscle, and maybe even gear 2 to some extent.
it also kinda explains how luffy can seamlessly transform into gear 4 like he did on dragon momonosuke and use gear 4 attacks in base form like in elbaph
Oda always had some type of idea of Nika. Years Before one piece was a thing Oda created a concept manga for one piece. It had the MC who had the rubber fruit. The rubber fruit had a spirit that laughed after evey sentence and he had the ides of laughing off ypur weakness. All of that was before one piece was ever a manga
10:49 Its like seeing a monster from far away running towards you. Meter by meter closing on you. And then you only reacted when its right in your face. By forcing the Nika stuff into the story, Oda made the World Government incompetent and idiotic.
My response has always been that the world government simply hoped that Luffy would die on his own, as his base rubber powers are admittedly terrible. None of us could pull off a gum gum pistol maybe even if we had 10 years of training like he did. The only perks otherwise are an extended reach and being bulletproof. I think the trouble is, if the gorosei's response was far harsher and more realistic then accusations of "plot armour" would be utterly ludicrous. I think something like Luffy getting a higher bounty than others despite them doing the same things would be a better way to go about it.
@@Jenna_Talia I personally think it was a result of Oda altering the timeline to accommodate the Warlords. The original story was apparently supposed to be about challenging the Emperors. All of pre-timeskip might’ve either taken place in a much shorter time frame, or just not happened at all. If Luffy went straight to fighting other pirates instead of an entire 500 chapter trek beating Warlords and CP agents, then maybe there would be grounds for the Elders to not notice him. But that’s just my theory. Also, come on, Luffy’s powers required a lot of work but they’re not that bad at the start x”)
Zoans has always been wonky like how some zoan users have more than 3 forms and luffy doesn’t really know what his fruit is it’s like how kaku who has a very basic fruit couldn’t figure out his forms after eating it
I love gear 5 conceptually, I think in that sense it's the best shonen power up. That being said, everything you said here is complete facts and it's annoying when people get mad at me for making the same points. Also did you have another channel or something? You sound familiar
The one thing that makes me strongly suspect that the legend of Nika wasn't planned from the beginning is that Luffy's fruit was completely changed from a Paramecia into a Zoan with Paramecia characteristics. There's a problem with this. It works for Marco, because he's just a phoenix with flames that he can utilize without transforming. However, Luffy _cannot_ exhibit a single Zoan characteristic without first awakening his fruit. That screams retcon to me. Like, no one can tell me that Oda's original intention wasn't a plain and simple rubber fruit back in 97. Changing the story midway through is perfectly fine and is commonly done...but maybe do it more tidily lol.
The point about "oh Luffys power made no sense cause you cant inflate your bones" is crazy cause if we are being realistic then Luffy would of died the second he ate the fruit. Your nervous system needs electric pulses to activate your nervous system, without a nervous system you die 😂 so yeah what you said about gags and cartoon logic is spot on.
I think you exposition lacks of the moments when Oda actively compared Luffy to a god, that happened in Skypea when was Luffy that responded when all people was praying for god. In the scene right after Connys inquired in her paying if exists a god is shown Luffy and his words was literally: "Sun. Appears!" At the time he was trying to disperse Enel's ship fog, but that was there.
I can agree execution of the reveal has been really clunky and I agree with some of your points like the chapter gap between Fishman Island and Who's Who chapter(although Joyboy was also mentioned in Laughtale chapter, still your point stands) and things like treating gags as the foreshadowing of Luffy being Nika and the whole Gorosei thing. But here is my take on the whole thing. As you said yourself Luffy has always been portrayed as Sun throughout the series. It is more prevalent in arcs like Skypiea and Fishman Island and little less in Thriller Bark. Ofcourse I am not saying this proves that Luffy always had a Sun god fruit but him being a Sun or a God. Also Gear 5 reveal is a two fold thing, awakening of his fruit and his fruit being a mythical zoan. I think you are with me on the point that awakening of his fruit has been well foreshadowed from first learning of the term in Impel Down and Luffy's two major fights have been with awakened DF users in Doffy and Katakuri. Now with the part of his fruit being a mythical zoan. I agree with you that characters saying things like rubber shouldn't work like that doesn't count and Kaido said that thing like just few chapters ago. But I do believe that Luffy's fruit being a zoan type was always a possibility. Although I don't count them as solid evidence but here are some of the points that were good enough for me to count as foreshadowing: 1. Interaction between Luffy and Momo when they first met when Luffy said that he is not a Zoan type. 2. Chopper being scared that Blackbeard might be after his Hito Hito Nomi and the whole mystery of why did BB went to ""Drum"" Island (possibly to search for Hito Hito Nomi model Nika) Both of these interactions were really close to Oda name dropping Joyboy. In conclusion Luffy being a Sun God and his fruit being a Zoan have been well foreshadowed to me. His fruit being a Nika model is more of a theory on BB and Drum Island. WG handling of Luffy's fruit is definitely poor. I am completely with you on that.
Fully agree, me and friends who watched it together years ago always said we didn't think Luffy's fruit was really a Paramecia or at the very least not a normal one
@bexly96 tbh, i kinda had a similar feeling of that, too. There was a moment when I was watching the anime of One Piece where I was thinking about Logia type abilities- and now, this was honestly a silly little thought, but I almost thought that Luffy's fruit was a Logia due to attacks going through them and me putting that logic into how Luffy could take blunt attacks, but thinking back on it now, I was definitely not thinking of the whole 'rubber' aspect of things💀
Honestly, I will admit, the WG handling Luffy's fruit was definitely poor, lmfao-- and i know this isn't really any evidence or anything, but after rewatching episode 151 in a reaction video, I'll never see that part with the Elders noticing Luffy's bounty the same way ever again, not after recent events with Gear 5 and how poorly they handled in trying to 'get rid of it'-
Agreed with you, but not regarding the gags. There are no sense less gags in one piece. Let me copy paste another comment I wrote. Brother at the end of the video you literally went full on delulu. There are no nonsense gags in one piece, all of them have to make logical sense according to the world. Like every single thing has a reason or explaination behind it. Like Nami's greed, ussop's lies, sanji's obssesion with food etc are gags but also explained via their backstory. Similarly all inhuman feats, gags or not have and need explaination. The reason brook can gorw back a tooth after drinking milk is because its a extention of his devil fruit ability, he has always been able to do this even in pre timeskip just like how luffy regens after eating meat. Luffy growing back a tooth on the other hand is the proof and the foreshadowing to his toon force. He can do it because he thinks he can do it. His gear's exactly resemble zooan transformation idk what ur on about, like bruh gear 3 is literally arm point lmao. There is also the moment in punk hazar where after turning into a dragon momo specifically askes luffy how to transform back and he says "Idk I am not a zooan" while looking edgy. There is no reason for this scene to exist other than foreshadowing. Also he can do a lot of fire moves just because he believes he has inherited ace's legace. Like red hawk/ red rock. and he can even run fast enough that he leaves fire in his trail. I personally believe oda always knew about luffy's fruit being special and maybe even it being a zooan. But its in fishman island that he solidified the idea of gear 5. but the connection of "sun god nika" is the only part that didn;t exist before wano. Nami's gag does not have a explaination as of yet, you could say thats just luffy "spreading" his toon force like he does with gear 5 to make other peopel pop their eyes out. But thats stretching it to the moon. I believe she has some form of unrefined haki speciality. Two instances especially strenthed this belief. 1. She somehow survived multiple haki coated head butts from ulti. That is not possible unless nami herself has haki. She is probably unknowingly using it like how zoro did against mr1 in alabasta. 2. Jinbe looked at nami's aura when she hits everyone and called it color of supereme king haki. 3. She is the only one we have seen be able to do it. or more specifically the only 'weak' character we have seen do impossible feats.
You need to watch Mom Peice by Drawk. She was able to accurately guess that Luffy is a sun god back on little garden. Because she's a teacher for like philosophy or something she uses context clues and God damn it was hype last year.
@tylamcgilverson3923 that's interseting but idk how you can get to that unless you got spoiled. Not saying the person is wrong but gear 5 was a big thing that can change people opinons. Will check out the video and see.
@@tylamcgilverson3923 Literal Sun God? or Luffy just embodies the qualities of a Sun God or the sun? Or does it say that being the Sun God is related to his Devil Fruit? Coz Luffy being the "sun" isn't really new to anyone reading the story before the reveal of Gear 5.
@tylamcgilverson3923 Luffy being a representation of the sun or a sun god isn't what this is about. That was always set up he punches away Enel's Deathpiea well the Skypieans call on a god to save them. This isn't a crazy reveal. What is a crazy reveal is Luffy's powers/fruit and his awakening being fundamentally different from other awakenings.
I think some of Luffy's abilities in the post-timeskip are themselves a bit of foreshadowing. Hody Jones mentions after being hit with Red Hawk that Luffy even using a fire based attack as a rubber ability didn't make sense. Dolfamingo and Katakuri said the same exact things when faced against Gear 4th and Luffy's punches changing direction. Even Gear 4th itself is a huge hint given that it's a transformation that is uncharacteristic of Paramecia fruits. Pedro's Death also references the coming dawn of the world, a huge story theme in Wano and the Final Saga in general due to how much it relates to Joyboy. One other overlooked line is Hyougoro mentioning that Gear 4th looks like the God of Fire(which in a sense is kind of like the sun).
@@J-Wolf17FTW They could’ve been looking back on it. The issue always was that several characters did outlandish things with their fruits. So it always felt disingenuous to act like Luffy was an exception. Many paramecia fruits either already have transformations or theoretically could perform one if you’re creative enough.
My only head cannon thought about the Gorosei allowing Luffy to roam as a secret Nika, is because Imu has/is playing a game with the beings of the world, and strategically keeping them alive for his [hypothetical] amusement. (Think Vivi, Shirahoshi, Momo, and any other character who has connections to the void century that tha Gorosei definitely know about)
I personally think it was planned ever since "gears" were added. The sun pirates were at the very least first mentioned pre time skip in sabaody. Joyboy was girst mentioned in fishman. As for the bigger issues, i dont think its as simple as just the panel in skypeia. Dont forget, everyone in the sky was praying that someone save them from enel and at that moment, luffy burst out of that massive electric sphere. Now, more on it, the Thousand sunny travels west. Like the sun as well, it is the traveling sun. The dawn pirates were also a mink crew. So Dawn, the sun, the prayers. Skypeia had a flashback where it was mentioned that there were several gods, those gods (while not listing nika) were still a major introduction to the idea of gods. Then during marineford meet 2 mythical zoans, one of which was a human human fruit. Now, as for the sun pirates again, they were led by fisher tiger, fisher tiger freed the slaves in mary goise and the sun god is (later) called the god of freedom. As for the MOST specific, recall this: Luffy gained fire powers Luffy gained electric powers Randomly during the timeskip. Luffy even knew he made fire on the ground when running. This had nothing to do with his devil fruit. Then Gear 4? Him flying doesnt make sense, Him transforming and gaining smoke clouds doesnt make sense, and it def seemed more like a zoan than a paramecia in that end.
I think that people forgot that was Luffy that answered when all skipeans was asking for a god. Besides wasn't Maxim clouds covering the sun? And wasn't Luffy that brought the sun back?
I didn't see how this is foreshadowing. Are we going to say the same about Katakuri's burning mochi? Since mochi doesn't normally do that, he secretly have some mythical God Zoan fruit that the someone conveniently renamed??? And if we don't assume that then how does burning mochi work??? The other stuff is closer to themes rather than foreshadowing. There being Gods that people pray to doesn't mean Luffys fruit is a God fruit or that Gods even exist in the One piece universe prior to Wano. There was also no connection to Joyboy being a God and/or having a God devil fruit prior to Wano deep into act 3.
@michaelmerchant9870 we MET God devil fruit in marineford so they do have to exist. Also, we did have confirmation of gods to begin with due to the flashback and praying, regardless sof how you loom at it- gods have always existed in the story metaphorically or not. As far as burning mochi goes that was a toei special, in the manga he just jettissons his fist, no fire there. In regards to literal foreshadowing, shanks having the fruit in the first place is not only deeply too convenient for it not to have been mildly in place at some point early in the series (due to shanks being shown to be WB level before skypeia), but also the fact that joyboy being mentioned in 800+ year old poneglyphs can easily be tied back to Roger and his journey in collecting them via skypeia writings he left behind, connecting him back to the "God" thread at least. Of which is difficult to fully deny. Additionally, Robin stated directly that the skypeia poneglyphs pointed to Fishman island as the spot where posiedon would be. Looping the two poneglyphs directly. A.k.a. joyboy connects to skypeia somehow (a.k.a. Jaya), a land where Gods have always been a thing. It's disingenuous to think that with all that skypeia had to offer in both storytelling and metaphysical that it is not alluding to godlike figures in some way shape or form.
I think what's going on here is that, although the ending of One Piece is figured out. The way we get there is not and Oda has given himself enough wiggle room by placing enough elements in the story that he can then go and retroactively tie back too. He's very good at it, but not always. There's a good analysts video by Mr Morj about how Oda is good at making it seem like his retroactive changes seem always planned and natural. Early One Piece knew HOW it was gonna get to the end, but then the manga got so popular that Oda had to extend the story (many times). Which means he no longer knew exactly how he was gonna get to the end he originally envisioned. I'm guessing after the first time he had to extend the story, he realized he needed to start placing narrative threads open ended enough for him to go back and tie back too, to give him enough flexibility to make changes to the story's direction to get to the ending of One Piece he originally envisioned. Which means Oda no longer knows exactly how he will get to end of One Piece and has to wrangle many narrative threads and weave them as seamlessly as possible to get to his ending. I think someone LIKE Joy Boy was always planned from the begging, but not the details, and Oda always planned for him to be first brought up in some future arc that about the fishmen around the halfway point of the story. Now with regards with Gear 5. I really feel that Oda built up Kaido to be so strong that he genuinely could not figure out a way for Luffy to convincingly beat him. And Oda possibly already knew he was going to have trouble writing the ending of Wano during the Totto Land arc (or even way before since punk hazzard), because if you notice during the Katakuri fight Oda makes Katakuri comment on how weird Luffy's rubber fruit is and how that's not how rubber normally behaves. I think that was Oda giving himself a narrative out because he already knew he was gonna have to change SOMETHING about luffy's awakening in wano, but not sure exactly what. And even before then, I think he knew he needed to invent another power up for devil fruits to cap the end of the four emperor's saga, so luffy could beat kaido, since before punk hazzard. That's is to say, I don't think devil fruit awakenings were planned since the start of the story, they were invented during the post timeskip. (Just to comment on Haki real quick, I think something like haki was something Oda always wanted in the story, but didn't know how to go about it and the first two prototypes for it where mantra in Jaya and the six powers during water 7 with the system being fleshed out during the timeskip). Which also means that Oda already had some idea of what his awakening was going to be, only to probably change his mind during the end of Tottoland. Which is why all the relevant info about NIka happens only in wano, because Oda lacked so much confidence in his original awakening concept that he made a hard pivot to the right (last minute) and completely changed luffy's devil fruit type so he could give him a different awakening and write a more convincing end to the Kaido vs Luffy fight. Which leads me to believe that the Nika pose foreshadowing was actually foreshadowing for Joyboy that got retroactively changed to NIka foreshadowing once he changed the nature of his devil fruit. Which also leads me to believe that the events of void century and not set in stone and HAVE changed, even though the way the One Piece ends is set.......or you know, Oda could be lying about that and actually doesn't have anything set in stone and is the reason why the reveal of the One Piece will be the very last thing we are shown at the end of the story, Like the very last manga panel. And just has a vague notion of the manner in which he wants to end the story, but not the HOW. TL;DR After timeskip, when Oda was planning four emperors saga, Oda introduced the concept of awakenings to give luiffy a power-up to defeat Kaido. During Totto Land he realized his original awakening for Luffy wasn't gonna result in a believable power-up that could be Kaido, after building him up so much. Oda makes last minute DRASTIC changes to Luffy's devil fruit, during Wano, and gives him a different power up that can convincingly beat him and future stronger opponents. Which is why the concept behind Gear 5 feels like it came out of nowhere and last minute and reveals that many of the key events of the void century were not planned from the start.
Another problem you alluded to is people try to say "rubber can't do that" as an explanation for "foreshadowing" gear 5th (lol wow) is that explanation can only apply to the awakened form. Since Luffy wasn't awakened in gears 1?-4, the cartoon powers don't apply in those form. He only gets the rubber body as explained by the Goresei. There is literally zero explanation or reason given in story that suggest awakening work graduately.
You got to realize awakening in one piece doesn’t actually mean the word “awakening”. Like law awakens his fruit and all he gets is stinking his room when he could already size up his room. Or Kidd’s awakening only got turning things into magnets when he could already attract objects. Katakuri awakens his fruit to turn things into mochi when he could already hide anything in his mochi Think of awakening as a sealed bottle of beer. The drink in the beer is the entire power. But you can’t open it so you have to deal with licking the wet sealed bottle which sort of has some beer on it but once you get a brain cell and realize if that’s how you open a beer and open it then you get the “full drink” or in short “I understand it now”
@@anime_world6684I only got about half of that ngl. Can you explain rob lucci awakening for me I never really understood how he powercrept so hard also what you think about his fight w zoro ?
@youngking4114 nothing special about lucci’s awakening. He’s a zoan so his true form was just becoming more animalistic and beastly to the leopard. In short his awakening is becoming a therian. Also lucci is a prodigy. It’s the perfect plot device for oda to say yeah he’s overpowered post timeskip and could “hang” with zoro
Exactly He tried planting it with Whos who after he realized he made Kaido way too strong oda is dumb for not just utilizing the scar Kaido had being reopened by Zoro, where Luffy strikes at with all his power which allows him to win thanks to Advanced Armanent aka RYUOU. NO ADVANCED CONQUERORS COATING BS OR GEAR 5hit needed
@@Naan_Gang @bogiewoods3037 Both of yall are wrong in Chapter 990 Hyogoro says Luffy looks like a diety. Also the nature of awakenings were there before Wano. Why would an old scar not heal after 20 years, the Scabbards reopened it sure but Kaido even says it was shallow. Also I don't get how Gear 5 isnt needed if Kaido was hyped up. Thematically Gear 5 would need to be revealed in Wano as Wano is inspired by Japan "Land of the Rising Sun", and Luffy receives his awakening then. It's one thing to be critical but to ignore obvious story elements because you didnt catch them is dumb.
Do you enjoy one piece? I love this community so much the speculation and theory crafting is next level sometimes. But I think we forget to ask ourselves theory only question that matters every now and then. Do we still love this story no matter what's going on or regardless of answers? Yes, good! Stick around its only getting better 😌 ❤
Anyone know about the movie that they say inspired once piece where humans are limited in their technological advancement, and there’s a music box or something inside the earth keeping the spell for the tech restriction going
I mean the show is called One Piece based on Luffy's end goal, and if Joyboy's story is connected to that somehow from the very beginning then it makes sense it may have been planned from the start. I mean, Arlong Park was based on Sabaody and Sabaody is the premium example of class disparities between the Celestial Dragons and everyone else, and if the CD were thought of back then, Imu might have been, as well. If Imu was thought up, then his story along with Joyboy's would be, too. From the very first scene of Roger saying "I left everything this world has to offer right there!" The old history was likely at least conceptualised along with Joyboy. Maybe Oda had time to flesh the story out over time, but it probably began with a simple "how fun would cartoon logic be in the real world?"
Yeah definitely agree with the points made, Oda's usually good at foreshadowing, dropping hints beforehand but the concept of Nika was mentionned for the first time 30 chapters before gear 5's reveal, it really feels like it was a last minute addition. He could've at least name dropped him before, by that point we had seen a bunch of giants and even had a flashback on Elbaph, so opportunities were there if that was an original intention. Hopefully the current arc can delve more into Nika now that we have him, just like the previous one did with Joyboy
I feel like the reveal couldve had better foreshadowing but i like the power up regardless. The only thing that bothers me is that the world government didnt do anything to stop the little rubber kid causing mischief in the east. Dont say its because no one has awaken the fruit in yeads so they didnt expect some random kid to do it. This is the same W.G that killed thousands of pregnant women and new born babies just to make sure a great pirate doesnt have a kid
I appreciate how thorough you were in this video and made points that align with your perspective for sure. Do I think Toon Force was planned? Definitely not, but I don't understand what you mean by the Gorosei "didn't hear about it." They very clearly do not want people exploring the Gomu Gomu No Mi and do not want to draw attention to it, so while they could send all of their forces to Luffy to try and focus on them (which is what they did as soon as they had a favorable moment in Egghead), they don't want to alert anyone to the importance of the fruit.
the easiest way to explain why the gorosei dont know about luffys fruit is because powers in one piece are sometimes just vaguely talked about like they call them power users or fruit users for like a majority of the pre time skip and when we see the gorosei there are more important matters they arent worried about a threat that hasnt happend yet like luffy because luffy isnt someone on their radar to begin with you have to take these things from the perspective of the character your taking in your perspective and saying how come they dont see luffy as a threat when its not talked about yea they wouldnt know what rubber powers look like to begin with they said its been alluding them for 800 years so thats a strong reason they dont know what he has yet until marine ford war since thats when hes on display they could of easily said his powers are stretching powers and not rubber or maybe luffy never told a marine agent his powers to begin with but he goes on a 2 year break so allocating energy to finding him would be pointless if they thought maybe he died or wasnt sure what he was doing. robin is a threat because of what she can do which is read the old pone glyphs but they dont know her location at all times and they arent an all seeing eye like you said they are we know their powers and there was no all seeing eye power shown. luffy in the beginning of the story is a nobody when realistically should they know that luffy has these powers are in marineford war but at that point he should of died and got saved and it still wasnt mentioned at all because luffy is still weak and a nobody we might give him all these titles and things but hes simply not a problem for the gorosei at this moment its at the point in wano where they try to kill him and he came back to life because they were scared of the fruits powers so realistically it took them 3 years plus to find out and allocate force to stop him which they thought they did and luffy got saved again. the next arc egghead they allocate a majority of their force to stopping him and still nothing could stop luffy.
First off luffy's mythical zoan isn't even known. We are unsure of what the beast is, it's a human model and it makes sense that Gear 3rd, Gear 2nd and gear 4th are the transformation. It definitely woulsnt function for others like Kaido's and Marco's which are actually beast who's abilities and transformations actually deviate from the human appearance. By that logic luffy was never going to change physically or have a hybrid form where he is half monster like the others. Instead, the change would only apply physical properties since he is already human. Chopper would have similar traits if he was human and not a reindeer that ate a human fruit
gear 2nd and gear 3rd arent even transformations. its just luffy creatively utilizing the properties of rubber to enhance his physical properties and attacks. gear 2nd: inflating blood vessels to increase blood flow therefore giving him more explosive physical abilities (anime logic idk) gear 3rd: inflating his bones so that his fist gets bigger thus doing more damage both of which arent transformations
@Dave-su5cd you misunderstand the entire discourse. Nika and Chopper's fruit are model human. Now, what happens if a human being eats a model of human fruit? It simply means they would only get ohyscial properties and abilities and not necessarily have a "transformation" in the sense that other zoans have. So if we actually want to say that luffy has a transformation, then it would be his gears, do you understand? His gears will substitute for hybrid forms of kaido and Lucci, and gear 5th will be full transformation like Kaido's dragon form. Remember, luffy is a zoan, and Gear5th is the full form which counts as full transformation
@frenchynoob which part of it hasn't happened in the show? Everything I have mentioned here happened in the show, so how exactly is it head canon, or are you just throwing word salad around? It's a discourse. If you don't have anything reasonable to add or disprove, then you can look away
@@90sPotato This is manga. Not a show. You read it. You do not watch it. By your own logic Luffy's gears must be classified as awakenings in their own right, yet we know that's not how awakenings work. Paramecia awakenings function by externalizing the user's ability. Zoan awakenings only offer an increase of stamina. Why does Luffy's actual awakening give him both? Because it is supposedly mythical? But that doesn't make any sense because it isn't based on anything other than an abstract idea. Songoku, Kaio, Orochi, and Yamato: their devil fruits are mythical and are based on concrete figures. "Nika", Joy, is not a figure but an idea. The only application that could work is JoyBoy, but that raises further questions (are dfs based on the wills of pre-existing people from the VC? That's what Vegapunk implied, but that doesn't explain how dfs came to be in and of themselves.) And lastly, awakenings are not transformations. Not even Chopper's rumble balls and monster point is a transformation. Again, awakenings are the devil fruits power being externalized. It is clear as day that this was not planned.
oda came up with gear 5th while in hospitle he came up with idea for a laugh that would devide fanbase it was a joke but publisher liked idea n said lets go with it,gear 5th was born
Joy boy? Possibly. Gear 5? Definitely not because that presupposes a loooooot about the story, including gears, DF awakening, and the origin of the Gomu Gomu no Mi
G5 was a mighty asspull, I had hard time accepting it... But one look at the gag, fell in love with it and luffy really needed this to be truly free. His fighting style was so apted for this transformation.. even the moves he does is pretty much from every fight he ever been to.
I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that Oda could’ve toyed with the idea when he first thought of devil fruit awakenings, which would’ve been in Impel Down at the earliest, I think. It’s definitely possible that he brainstormed some ideas for Luffy’s devil fruit awakening then, and maybe a cartoonish power set came up at some point, idk.
I'd say Luffy's awakening (Gear 5) was planned back in Dressrosa, since in that arc the concept was introduced and Luffy uses a new power up to defeat the first awakened DF user we met (also I like the theory that Gear 4 is an "incomplete awakening) But Luffy's awakening being a Mythical Zoan...yeah, that came from Wano itself
My guess is that he came up with the idea around wholecake island. I remember Katakuri talking about how Luffys powers defied logic of just rubber (which for most of the series is just fun and a gag.) Yet here its specifically pointed out and acknowledged that its not normal for just rubber. Feel free to correct if i misremembered anything
I'd been saying for years already that it was obvious Luffy's fruit was not what we thought it was before wano even started and so had plenty of others. We couldn't have thought that if it wasn't already being hinted at throughout the series. Theres many factors adding to Luffy getting some insane form eventually, the fact he's based on wukong/goku and they multiple forms he can take at will. Nami getting the staff and zues = power pole and nimbus which may seem a bit unrelated but it was obvious to me she'd get them both eventually and also that they will eventually likely be used by luffy one day/help him in someway (nika's staff too). The fact that Luffys fruit and choppers fruit act so similarly is another hint. Frankys top in Zou that said HITO with a sun symbol on it... Brook and luffy healing the same way I believe is a hint that we have another reveal coming too like with chopper. Chopper, Luffy, Brook and Robin all have mythical human fruits and models that fit their styles. Model Monster, Model Nika, Model Death/Reaper and Model Devil Call me crazy but if and when it happens I'll probably have people saying I didn't call it years in advance like people now are saying we didn't or couldn't have guessed in advance luffy's powers coming... It WAS foreshadowed
and the fact it’s in wano not government nation this infomation is avaliable unlike in the other island i can see where you are coming from but your using bias for your point
yeah idk why people cope and have to pretend there's foreshadowing behind this moment. It's weekly manga, authors retroactively build off of what they established without planning everything out all the time, and oda admits to doing so for some other scenarios in interviews. G5/Nika reveal is probably his worst executed moment at doing so, but I do think that he started toying with the idea that 'maybe luffy is a zoan' with gear 4. Some of the changes it makes to his form make absolutely zero sense even with the cartoon rubber logic (like the cloud scarf and the design/mark on his back)- still at that point I doubt he had nika planned. Even with the retcon though, I don't think the gorosei ever say they didn't know that luffy had the fruit- I think there's logical explanations as to why ramping up their attempted capture on luffy with no reason given via the marines would start to make people suspicious, but also I think everyone can admit them not even sending cp0 after the straw hats would be insane if this wasn't a retcon lol. Imu seems to care more about joyboy/nika more than anything, even more than he cares about the revolutiionary army that's literally laying siege to his city- so the gorosei not prioritizing this via cp0 wouldn't make much sense
I imagine that he did have it planned from the beginning, but it was just one option. And as time went on he chose the options best for him. He clearly used retroactive foreshadowing for certain events, but that doesnt imply he made it up on the spot. Honestly your deductions used for your reasoning are clearly missing a lot. There were countless hints connecting luffy and joyboy before this that you didnt include. Plus theres likely more that isnt outright obvious to us now, but will be once oda reveals more. but its a key part of the mystery that oda didnt show it till now. Most of Nikas foreshadowing is the foreshadowing of the void century, which is deliberately made to be mysterious. Oda has said for a long time his goal with one piece, was to tell the story he had planned for the end. Odas epic god war finale was absolutely what he planned, especially if you look at concept arts for the failed series he had originally pitched.
to me, i think the power was probably planned from the start (seriously, it really does feels tailor-made for luffy) but it being a gear and being connected to nika probably came later
I believe he had the idea of the toon force planned out but didn't have gear 5th planned out and he worked backwards on how to get Luffy to the point where he can be a rubber hose cartoon character like Popeye or something
I feel like it is shaky to make this assessment when we are talking about the void century. Specifically, those who LOST during the void century. Joyboy may not be foreshadowed directly, but his people are constantly foreshadowed throughout the story. Almost exclusively through the poneglyphs, the only written record from that civilization, and word of mouth from the few that know about what happened. The reason so much information is given in Wano is because Wano is an ancient country that has entirely cut itself off from the rest of the world w/o much WG fascist interference. Not to mention many other parts of the story, like the Will of D which I think is directly related to Joyboy's crew, haven't been fully explored yet. Still, none of this is technically foreshadowing for joyboy/g5 but that leads me to my point. This is all to say that I agree. I don't think there is that much setup. But is that not the point? The entire world was seized by a fascist government 800 years ago that erased an entire century of history. Especially history regarding the ancient kingdom and Joyboy. Ohara is a perfect example of this--they found out too much, more than we know right now, and were immediately erased. If Oda was constantly setting shit up and foreshadowing it throughout the story, what is the point of it being called the "void century" when there is clearly enough information available early into the Grandline for us to start piecing it together? As we continue to explore the new world and visit countries or meet people outside of WG jurisdiction, we'll just continue finding new information that hasn't been erased yet. Also ik I am yapping, but wdym his Zoan powers don't work like other Zoans????? Nika had a stretchy body... and his fruit is modeled after Nika. The rubbery properties of his fruit only exist because of who it is modeled after. I do agree tho, the Elders should have known from the jump lmao
Oda explained why he included he said he wanted to go back to the more goofy fights luffy used to be involved in. Ill just point this out in the most bare bones way luffy always represented the sun in one piece there's so much thematic and symbolic ties to it that you have to legitimately be blind not to notice he captains a ship called the thousand sunny. Oda simply found that if he wanted to continue writing the story the way he wants it he'd have to make it significantly more literal how luffy is the sun
I agree with everything except the it not being foreshadowed that it isn't the gum fruit , unlike the gag part u mentioned for growing back teeth both Lucci and doflamingo acknowledge the fact that luffys powers make no sense in context to rubber
HTANK YOU KALEB THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANKYOU THANKOYU genuinely, one piece is my favorite anime (at one point, was more than just a favorite media franchise). but this is so important to have addressed !!!!!!!!!!
Many characters thoughtout the series comment about Luffy's strange abilities (gears, red hawk, etc) when he is suppose to be just a rubber man. There's no "direct connection" between the Gomu and Nika fruit because the real identity of the fruit is the resolution/payoff for what we have know for a very long time, this guy is not just a rubber man. Luffy best quality as a fighter is his creativity, his imagination. Gear 5 embodies the themes of the series. Wano have big problems as an arc, imo this tainted the perception of the Nika fruit reveal. You also completely dismiss the sun symbolism when Luffy's straw hat silouette is literally the sun.
as much as i also wholly agree with this, i also think one piece is still better off having gear 5th than not. execution definitely could be improved of course. i have a feeling the live action &or (hopefully) the remake anime will allude to it a lot more
Sorry, but Gear 5 was foreshadowed since the very beginning. The reason why it caught so many people out of guard was because the hints were hidden under anime cliches. Luffy's name is literally the combination of Laugh + Goofy, his design is cartoonish and simple even for One Piece standards, his strength is ridiculous for his supposed "rubber" powers and he kept doing stuff than a rubber man was not supposed to be doing. If you watch One Piece as an average anime fan you will be like "Luffy ignites his fist on fire or flies in Gear 4 just because of anime logic" but if you are someone who doesn't watch anime youu'll be like "hey, wtf is happening with Luffy"
I think those “hints” are really reaching. Especially the one about “rubber not being able to do what Luffy” is especially disingenuous. Nothing the One Piece characters can do is possible in any sense.
@jonathandelgado3755 You are misinterprting and dismissing evrrything I said with no basis and calling it a day. The hints are right there. I never said what Luffy does is impossible, I'm saying some of what Luffy doesn't make sense if he is just rubber. Also Luffy's name is literally Laugh + Goofy. ALSO the way he inflates his fist for gear 3 is literally how old cartoons fight. You are gonna say all of that is reaching when it's on your face in retrospective?
@@user-mp3pf2ir2p I’m sorry if I seemed pushy in my comment. But I still stand by saying that those reasons are really pushing. Luffy’s design being “simple and cartoony by OP standards” is kind of subjective when you’ve got other characters running around with sillier or less intricate designs as well. Not to mention his design got altered after the timeskip so it doesn’t really hold up. Also, to say Luffy’s name was inspired by two English words (which is a language Oda seems to have a vague understanding of) and saying that was the definitive intention behind it? Again, really reaching. Especially when Oda has never made any such comment. And I’d be willing to wager even non-anime fans would just label Luffy’s powers as working under “anime logic” but just change the word “anime” with “cartoon” because that’s just how animated stories tend to work. They’re picky with their logic and go with what’ll make the story most interesting.
@jonathandelgado3755 Japanese language is literally intricated with English, saying Oda is not familiaf with English is crazy to be honest since he researches a lot AND EVEN THE 1ST CHAPTER'S TITLE IS WRITTEN IN LITERALLY ENGLISH 😆. Also Oda has hinted in an interview rhat he named Luffy like that because "it suits him", you gotta just be in denial if you don't think Luffy is the xombination of Laugh + Goofy, specially considering the emphasis the series has done to his laugh and goofyness since the Gear 5 reveal. Your only defense is to just deny pretty obvious foreshadowing. You said you wager, but just as an example, I'm watching One Piece with my mom. She knows a lick about anime, and she is constantly pointing out weird stuff with Luffy since the beginning. She has always been suspect about how he coincidentally just keeps freeing countries, how durable and strong he is and how he just takes everything with a laugh after eating the fruit (in the ASL Flashback). My mom only suspects about the strength of both Sanji and Luffy, she nevrr has asked this about Zoro for example. You and I were just biased that's why the reveal caught us off guard. But in retrospective it was really well foreshadowed with all the hints that suddenly make more sense nos.
@ I think to say Oda has a great understanding of English is perfect based off of a handful of examples is a huge reach. I’m sure he knows some english. But enough to plan it out that deeply? I’m skeptical. Especially since Oda could’ve just outright said he used the two words instead of saying he “thought it fit him.” The latter of which could imply anything as simple as he just liked the way it sounded. And no. It wasn’t obvious foreshadowing. Luffy’s actions are in line with the themes of the story. And of all the characters in the Strawhats, he’s the one who should be questioned the LEAST in strength. He ate a devil fruit, has immense strength of will, and is our main character. Of COURSE he’s absurdly strong. That’s anime mc plot armor. And keep in mind, Luffy wasn’t always happy in the ASL flashback. There’s at least three instances at the top of my head where he was miserable in that flashback alone.
I believe oda had planned joyboy since the one piece is his treasure and the straw hat being his too and all the void century setup. in terms of the nika fruit i think it was kind of planned too coz of shanks stealing it having to do something him knowing what it is coz he was a roger pirate,stealing a rubber fruit from the govt seems stupid other wise. i understand what youre saying too coz oda didnt really connect the sun god nika stuff well. I think he had a certain general idea and added stuff along the way
I basically agree with what you said. I’ve kinda just thought that gear two could be possible the way it was written. And gear 3 and 4 was him kind of imagining that it could work so it did. As far as his Zina forms being off Mayby what we have seen as gear 5 is his hybrid form and we haven’t seen his beast form yet. Sun wu Kong kinda deal Maybe. At any rate this was a really good video and you got my sub.
i like your comment because i could totally see full joyboy transformation either being a lunarian or a giant (the giant straw hat). but they dont want to give that away too early. remember in joyboys first reveal panel he's buccaneer sized at a MINIMUM.
Nika couldn’t be mentioned because nika is a taboo subject even to the Gorosei so he was hinted through symbolism and the silhouette the only way he could be mentioned was through the mention of the sun god whereas joyboy could be mentioned because it’s the name on the poneglyph. Also the government and marines went after luffy plreanty of times but the could never catch him also they didn’t put any importance on the fruit because they didnt want to make it blatantly look like his fruit was special and draw attention to it.
I first thought that luffys fruit was different from dresrosa what flamingo said “this isn’t behaving like rubber” (something along those lines) I have a feeling this is when Oda started Brian storming or planting seeds
You forgot about the mention in Ch. 287, Sun God was mentioned for the first time in Skypiea. This may not seem like much on its own, but considering the only time Joyboy/Sun God was mentioned was in isolated countries (skypiea, fishman, wano), those areas preserved history in their culture, which the WG obviously erased from the general public (humans). So the Sun imagery between all of these factions from those isolated areas are all connected pre-timeskip. It makes sense why there wasn't direct info on Nika since the existence of a being was erased, much like the Ancient Kingdom. Also the increasing emphasis of awakenings up until Wano, (Doffy - Dressrosa, Katakuri - WCI), Luffy was bound to get an awakening, we just didnt know when. Also, this is my own speculation, since Wano is heavily based of Japan, Luffy being revealed as the Sun God Nika and Japan's flag meaning "Land of the Rising Sun" is probably the reason why a bulk of it was revealed in Wano (they made the poneglyphs too), but existing threads were there before Wano.
Yeah that check out with what I’ve said about Luffy being a liberator of the people, but that doesn’t automatically checkout as “Sun God Nika” stuff that that viewer/reader could’ve got back then
@@KalebXKaleb Well. When people is praying for someone to save them, this someone is a little bit more than a liberator. Even more in a fictional story, where people reaction is controlled. The answer for their god claim is Luffy.
@@KalebXKalebYou are forgetting this isnt the first time a moniker has been adopted by other figures or beings. The fact the title Sun God was established prior to post timeskip is what I mean. Elbaf, Sun God is used as a title. The constant Sun imagery amongst these same isolated groups, the increasing importance of an awakening. The name Nika in it self is too important and specific to drop early. All the name Nika did was give a name to what these groups. Also in Ch. 990, Hyogoro thinks Luffy looked like a guardian diety.
Oda initially planned for the series to only last a few years but he introduced the Seven Warlords early on and that expanded the series. So no. He didn't plan out Gear 5 from the beginning. You could argue he planted the seeds as early as Fishman Island.
The skypiea silloute was intentional though all his other ones was later changed - After Skypieans pray for a god at the end when the sun showed - Who did they show LUFFY I hate the downplay
We got multiple mentions of the sun god in skypiea and wholecake, and symbols have been established as the most important thing for symbolism but we only got the name nika in wano. That’s usually how developing works building works Joyboy tho yeah no mention except vivi portrayal of the straw hats in her quote at the end of alabasta
Not to be that guy but the only other mythical fruit that has 2 modes is the Hito Hito no Mi Model: Daibutsu with the base form and then the big transformation, but other than that everything else is right
i do think Joyboy was hinted in fishman island i dont see an issue wifh Luffy being next joyboy there but i do agree it's retcon and major issues with his fruit and existence of sun god nika and majorly how government didn't knew
I hope you just hide previous version instead of deleting. Because RUclips hate that and may stop provide next video like " why should i provide his new video if he may just delete it too?" otherwise it still good video and previous name really may be a real problem of low views.
@KalebXKaleb I think Sun God being mentioned is still a huge hint that Sun God Nika exist. It's just that The Void Century happened and the people of skypia assumed the giant snake as a sun God.
No for the simple fact that the idea of zoan's having will's of their own disillusion's everything that One Piece was built around prior to 1044. *It implies that everything that led to Luffy eating the gumgum was in fact a manifestation of the zoan's will, including Who's Who losing it to the Red Hairs *Luffy's abilities were never insinuated to be zoan-esque and begs the question why other zoan users don't achieve similar abilities *It undermines everything Luffy worked for and endured by virtue that zoans grant the user enhanced physical capabilities *After consuming the fruit the user knows what it is including its name and Luffy never refers to it as hitahita *Sun symbology was only ever that while this makes everything far more literal and meaningless in retrospect *It makes the world government come off as cartoonishly incompetent Everything about this not only screams of retcon, it fundamentally destroys literal decades of consistent story logic and world building.
The world government didn't know about the fruit until last minute go back to chapter 1037 every gorosei there were shocked about the fruit having a different name. The problem is who told them the only logical thing is imu and for that we have to wait and see why imu waited so long. One of the reasons might be because he was too afraid of joyboy power so him or other people wanted to change the name to make it where no one will be able to awaken it. You might argue but the rubber how couldn't the WG find out multiple fruits have similar abilities but still unique. Biggest example pica (stone) vs Pizzarro (island)
The Skypea connections are pretty well-established at this point. I'm very surprised to hear you push back against that. There's even a very early SBS where Oda mentions that campfire scene in particular as one of his favorites. That's why everyone brings it up when talking about foreshadowing in One Piece. Maybe not EVERY aspect of Joyboy was thoight about beforehand, but Oda definitely intended for Luffy to become some god-like savior and liberator by the end of the story.
Also, you said "most 'evidence' only makes sense in retrospect." Bro. That's literally how foreshadowing works. Be a G5 hater all you want, but I am not convinced in the slightest by your arguments. (Except the World Government part. Ya got me there.)
@@Radi0actvChickn If foreshadowing is too obscure to clue your audience in that something is going to happen in the future, then it's bad foreshadowing. Stuff like saying "This panel was Oda's favourite that's proof!" is actually proof that G5's foreshadowing was bad to non-existent and you're just a desperate Oda glazer
@universalshadow In my opinion, foreshadowing should only be obvious on rewatch. I am perfectly fine with it being vague enough the first time that nobody understands what it means until later. I prefer it that way.
Brother at the end of the video you literally went full on delulu. There are no nonsense gags in one piece, all of them have to make logical sense according to the world. Like every single thing has a reason or explaination behind it. Like Nami's greed, ussop's lies, sanji's obssesion with food etc are gags but also explained via their backstory. Similarly all inhuman feats, gags or not have and need explaination. The reason brook can gorw back a tooth after drinking milk is because its a extention of his devil fruit ability, he has always been able to do this even in pre timeskip just like how luffy regens after eating meat. Luffy growing back a tooth on the other hand is the proof and the foreshadowing to his toon force. He can do it because he thinks he can do it. His gear's exactly resemble zooan transformation idk what ur on about, like bruh gear 3 is literally arm point lmao. There is also the moment in punk hazar where after turning into a dragon momo specifically askes luffy how to transform back and he says "Idk I am not a zooan" while looking edgy. There is no reason for this scene to exist other than foreshadowing. Also he can do a lot of fire moves just because he believes he has inherited ace's legace. Like red hawk/ red rock. and he can even run fast enough that he leaves fire in his trail. I personally believe oda always knew about luffy's fruit being special and maybe even it being a zooan. But its in fishman island that he solidified the idea of gear 5. but the connection of "sun god nika" is the only part that didn;t exist before wano. Nami's gag does not have a explaination as of yet, you could say thats just luffy "spreading" his toon force like he does with gear 5 to make other peopel pop their eyes out. But thats stretching it to the moon. I believe she has some form of unrefined haki speciality. Two instances especially strenthed this belief. 1. She somehow survived multiple haki coated head butts from ulti. That is not possible unless nami herself has haki. She is probably unknowingly using it like how zoro did against mr1 in alabasta. 2. Jinbe looked at nami's aura when she hits everyone and called it color of supereme king haki. 3. She is the only one we have seen be able to do it. or more specifically the only 'weak' character we have seen do impossible feats.
Gear five always existed. It's the other 4 gears that weren't planned. Fishman island was long ago planned. Jimbe was discussed at Arlong Park. So most of Fishman Island wasn't an after thought. It was the red poneglyphs that were the afterthough. I wasn't a thing. There is a lot of discussion about why the Red Poneglyph disappeared from Fishman Island. The answer is obvious. It didn't exist when Oda wrote Fishman Island. He created them to extend the story. But Luffy was always going to become the reincarnation of a God. Was he named Nika? Nah. Was there a being specifically named Joyboy who'd previously been linked to Luffy's Devil Fruit at the time of writing East Blue? Nah. But 800 years of the world government has been a thing for a very long time. Oda had an outline of the 5th gear awakening happening all along. It's 4 emperors things that was added to the story later. The 7 warlords were the original gauntlet of villians Luffy was supposed to defeat. Oda created a lot of things that got added to orignal outline of One Piece. But Luffy was always supposed to awaken the Fruit.
I was watching a series a while back where a teacher who'd never seen/read one piece read and reviewed each arc. She "predicted" Luffy was a god in little garden and was "convinced Luffy is a Sun God" by Skypiea. I call bs, there is no way someone who just happened to start reading one piece after Gear 5ths debut accurately predicted Luffy was a Sun God specifically.
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Your point about zoan powers is correct, but luffy already was a human when he ate the human human fruit. The only other example of this is Sengoku. And he and luffy line up pretty well. Both dont have a hybrid fom that we have seen, both have incredibly flashy forms where they become their god incarnate, and both have passive abilities -luffy is rubber and sengoku has some sort of animal charming power. Id say if oda really wanted to bait and switch any devil fruit into being a human zoan he showed it was possible in marineford
I still cant believe I found Kaleb I.A'.s one piece alt through pure algo alone
Wait this is Kaleb I.A. I didn’t realize where I had heard the voice before till you said something
ditto
Ye
I think oda had the idea that luffys ultimate power would be some looney tunes type stuff but didn’t really have it figured out yet how luffy would obtain the power
I would assert that it was always toon force and gear 5 is just moreso.
Things like gear 3 make no sense for rubber, but it's classic toon force (see: Jerry's cousin)
Wydm? Gear 3 makes a lot of sense for rubber. Rubber tires are a thing. You pump them full of air and they can get extremely extremely hard especially if it was a giant fist. Overinflated tires can be extremely dangerous so it does make sense for rubber. But im just informing you dont take this as an insult please :)
@@Fennal6723 yes it does make sense for rubber, but it doesn't make sense logistics wise. like bones are separated by cartilage, so luffy filling his thumb bone with air shouldn't transfer the air to the rest of his arm bones. but with gear 5 and luffy having a rubber body with nika's ridiculous powers, his devil fruit fills in the "gaps" of that logic. i think this also applies for gear 4 inflating his muscular system and not his individual arm muscle, and maybe even gear 2 to some extent.
it also kinda explains how luffy can seamlessly transform into gear 4 like he did on dragon momonosuke and use gear 4 attacks in base form like in elbaph
Oda always had some type of idea of Nika. Years Before one piece was a thing Oda created a concept manga for one piece. It had the MC who had the rubber fruit. The rubber fruit had a spirit that laughed after evey sentence and he had the ides of laughing off ypur weakness. All of that was before one piece was ever a manga
10:49 Its like seeing a monster from far away running towards you. Meter by meter closing on you. And then you only reacted when its right in your face. By forcing the Nika stuff into the story, Oda made the World Government incompetent and idiotic.
My response has always been that the world government simply hoped that Luffy would die on his own, as his base rubber powers are admittedly terrible. None of us could pull off a gum gum pistol maybe even if we had 10 years of training like he did. The only perks otherwise are an extended reach and being bulletproof.
I think the trouble is, if the gorosei's response was far harsher and more realistic then accusations of "plot armour" would be utterly ludicrous. I think something like Luffy getting a higher bounty than others despite them doing the same things would be a better way to go about it.
What if they only recently found out about the devil fruit monkier since they intended to erase it from history
@@Jenna_Talia I personally think it was a result of Oda altering the timeline to accommodate the Warlords. The original story was apparently supposed to be about challenging the Emperors. All of pre-timeskip might’ve either taken place in a much shorter time frame, or just not happened at all. If Luffy went straight to fighting other pirates instead of an entire 500 chapter trek beating Warlords and CP agents, then maybe there would be grounds for the Elders to not notice him. But that’s just my theory.
Also, come on, Luffy’s powers required a lot of work but they’re not that bad at the start x”)
When a JoJo RUclipsr understands one piece better than most one piece RUclipsrs
Get this man on the next reverie
PLEEEEEEASE, honestly...jojo fans are underestimated beyond belief lmao
luffy being able to talk to joy boy best friend zunesha was foreshadowing that wasn’t in wano
Biggest ass pull of the century, and fans ate it up like it's filet mignon
Zoans has always been wonky like how some zoan users have more than 3 forms and luffy doesn’t really know what his fruit is it’s like how kaku who has a very basic fruit couldn’t figure out his forms after eating it
I love gear 5 conceptually, I think in that sense it's the best shonen power up. That being said, everything you said here is complete facts and it's annoying when people get mad at me for making the same points.
Also did you have another channel or something? You sound familiar
kaleb ia/kaleb ai
The one thing that makes me strongly suspect that the legend of Nika wasn't planned from the beginning is that Luffy's fruit was completely changed from a Paramecia into a Zoan with Paramecia characteristics. There's a problem with this. It works for Marco, because he's just a phoenix with flames that he can utilize without transforming. However, Luffy _cannot_ exhibit a single Zoan characteristic without first awakening his fruit. That screams retcon to me. Like, no one can tell me that Oda's original intention wasn't a plain and simple rubber fruit back in 97. Changing the story midway through is perfectly fine and is commonly done...but maybe do it more tidily lol.
The point about "oh Luffys power made no sense cause you cant inflate your bones" is crazy cause if we are being realistic then Luffy would of died the second he ate the fruit. Your nervous system needs electric pulses to activate your nervous system, without a nervous system you die 😂 so yeah what you said about gags and cartoon logic is spot on.
I think you exposition lacks of the moments when Oda actively compared Luffy to a god, that happened in Skypea when was Luffy that responded when all people was praying for god. In the scene right after Connys inquired in her paying if exists a god is shown Luffy and his words was literally: "Sun. Appears!"
At the time he was trying to disperse Enel's ship fog, but that was there.
The same Skypean's Sun god that requires human sacrifice?
@jv124 No. These are the shandians. Don't you know the difference?
@@edusmelo i just don't care that much.
@@jv124 Evidently
I can agree execution of the reveal has been really clunky and I agree with some of your points like the chapter gap between Fishman Island and Who's Who chapter(although Joyboy was also mentioned in Laughtale chapter, still your point stands) and things like treating gags as the foreshadowing of Luffy being Nika and the whole Gorosei thing.
But here is my take on the whole thing.
As you said yourself Luffy has always been portrayed as Sun throughout the series. It is more prevalent in arcs like Skypiea and Fishman Island and little less in Thriller Bark. Ofcourse I am not saying this proves that Luffy always had a Sun god fruit but him being a Sun or a God.
Also Gear 5 reveal is a two fold thing, awakening of his fruit and his fruit being a mythical zoan. I think you are with me on the point that awakening of his fruit has been well foreshadowed from first learning of the term in Impel Down and Luffy's two major fights have been with awakened DF users in Doffy and Katakuri.
Now with the part of his fruit being a mythical zoan. I agree with you that characters saying things like rubber shouldn't work like that doesn't count and Kaido said that thing like just few chapters ago.
But I do believe that Luffy's fruit being a zoan type was always a possibility. Although I don't count them as solid evidence but here are some of the points that were good enough for me to count as foreshadowing:
1. Interaction between Luffy and Momo when they first met when Luffy said that he is not a Zoan type.
2. Chopper being scared that Blackbeard might be after his Hito Hito Nomi and the whole mystery of why did BB went to ""Drum"" Island (possibly to search for Hito Hito Nomi model Nika)
Both of these interactions were really close to Oda name dropping Joyboy.
In conclusion Luffy being a Sun God and his fruit being a Zoan have been well foreshadowed to me. His fruit being a Nika model is more of a theory on BB and Drum Island.
WG handling of Luffy's fruit is definitely poor. I am completely with you on that.
Fully agree, me and friends who watched it together years ago always said we didn't think Luffy's fruit was really a Paramecia or at the very least not a normal one
@bexly96 tbh, i kinda had a similar feeling of that, too. There was a moment when I was watching the anime of One Piece where I was thinking about Logia type abilities- and now, this was honestly a silly little thought, but I almost thought that Luffy's fruit was a Logia due to attacks going through them and me putting that logic into how Luffy could take blunt attacks, but thinking back on it now, I was definitely not thinking of the whole 'rubber' aspect of things💀
Honestly, I will admit, the WG handling Luffy's fruit was definitely poor, lmfao-- and i know this isn't really any evidence or anything, but after rewatching episode 151 in a reaction video, I'll never see that part with the Elders noticing Luffy's bounty the same way ever again, not after recent events with Gear 5 and how poorly they handled in trying to 'get rid of it'-
Agreed with you, but not regarding the gags. There are no sense less gags in one piece. Let me copy paste another comment I wrote.
Brother at the end of the video you literally went full on delulu.
There are no nonsense gags in one piece, all of them have to make logical sense according to the world. Like every single thing has a reason or explaination behind it. Like Nami's greed, ussop's lies, sanji's obssesion with food etc are gags but also explained via their backstory. Similarly all inhuman feats, gags or not have and need explaination.
The reason brook can gorw back a tooth after drinking milk is because its a extention of his devil fruit ability, he has always been able to do this even in pre timeskip just like how luffy regens after eating meat.
Luffy growing back a tooth on the other hand is the proof and the foreshadowing to his toon force. He can do it because he thinks he can do it.
His gear's exactly resemble zooan transformation idk what ur on about, like bruh gear 3 is literally arm point lmao. There is also the moment in punk hazar where after turning into a dragon momo specifically askes luffy how to transform back and he says "Idk I am not a zooan" while looking edgy. There is no reason for this scene to exist other than foreshadowing.
Also he can do a lot of fire moves just because he believes he has inherited ace's legace. Like red hawk/ red rock. and he can even run fast enough that he leaves fire in his trail.
I personally believe oda always knew about luffy's fruit being special and maybe even it being a zooan. But its in fishman island that he solidified the idea of gear 5. but the connection of "sun god nika" is the only part that didn;t exist before wano.
Nami's gag does not have a explaination as of yet, you could say thats just luffy "spreading" his toon force like he does with gear 5 to make other peopel pop their eyes out. But thats stretching it to the moon.
I believe she has some form of unrefined haki speciality. Two instances especially strenthed this belief.
1. She somehow survived multiple haki coated head butts from ulti. That is not possible unless nami herself has haki. She is probably unknowingly using it like how zoro did against mr1 in alabasta.
2. Jinbe looked at nami's aura when she hits everyone and called it color of supereme king haki.
3. She is the only one we have seen be able to do it. or more specifically the only 'weak' character we have seen do impossible feats.
My idea is when fishman island was serialized talking about joyboy that's when Oda planned gear 5.
You need to watch Mom Peice by Drawk. She was able to accurately guess that Luffy is a sun god back on little garden. Because she's a teacher for like philosophy or something she uses context clues and God damn it was hype last year.
@tylamcgilverson3923 that's interseting but idk how you can get to that unless you got spoiled. Not saying the person is wrong but gear 5 was a big thing that can change people opinons. Will check out the video and see.
@@tylamcgilverson3923 Literal Sun God? or Luffy just embodies the qualities of a Sun God or the sun? Or does it say that being the Sun God is related to his Devil Fruit? Coz Luffy being the "sun" isn't really new to anyone reading the story before the reveal of Gear 5.
Exactly
@tylamcgilverson3923 Luffy being a representation of the sun or a sun god isn't what this is about. That was always set up he punches away Enel's Deathpiea well the Skypieans call on a god to save them. This isn't a crazy reveal.
What is a crazy reveal is Luffy's powers/fruit and his awakening being fundamentally different from other awakenings.
I think some of Luffy's abilities in the post-timeskip are themselves a bit of foreshadowing.
Hody Jones mentions after being hit with Red Hawk that Luffy even using a fire based attack as a rubber ability didn't make sense. Dolfamingo and Katakuri said the same exact things when faced against Gear 4th and Luffy's punches changing direction.
Even Gear 4th itself is a huge hint given that it's a transformation that is uncharacteristic of Paramecia fruits.
Pedro's Death also references the coming dawn of the world, a huge story theme in Wano and the Final Saga in general due to how much it relates to Joyboy.
One other overlooked line is Hyougoro mentioning that Gear 4th looks like the God of Fire(which in a sense is kind of like the sun).
i believe in a dawning where nintendo starts rapid-firing greater ideas for star fox again
@@J-Wolf17FTW They could’ve been looking back on it. The issue always was that several characters did outlandish things with their fruits. So it always felt disingenuous to act like Luffy was an exception. Many paramecia fruits either already have transformations or theoretically could perform one if you’re creative enough.
My only head cannon thought about the Gorosei allowing Luffy to roam as a secret Nika, is because Imu has/is playing a game with the beings of the world, and strategically keeping them alive for his [hypothetical] amusement. (Think Vivi, Shirahoshi, Momo, and any other character who has connections to the void century that tha Gorosei definitely know about)
I personally think it was planned ever since "gears" were added.
The sun pirates were at the very least first mentioned pre time skip in sabaody.
Joyboy was girst mentioned in fishman.
As for the bigger issues, i dont think its as simple as just the panel in skypeia.
Dont forget, everyone in the sky was praying that someone save them from enel and at that moment, luffy burst out of that massive electric sphere.
Now, more on it, the Thousand sunny travels west. Like the sun as well, it is the traveling sun.
The dawn pirates were also a mink crew.
So Dawn, the sun, the prayers.
Skypeia had a flashback where it was mentioned that there were several gods, those gods (while not listing nika) were still a major introduction to the idea of gods.
Then during marineford meet 2 mythical zoans, one of which was a human human fruit.
Now, as for the sun pirates again, they were led by fisher tiger, fisher tiger freed the slaves in mary goise and the sun god is (later) called the god of freedom.
As for the MOST specific, recall this:
Luffy gained fire powers
Luffy gained electric powers
Randomly during the timeskip.
Luffy even knew he made fire on the ground when running. This had nothing to do with his devil fruit.
Then Gear 4?
Him flying doesnt make sense,
Him transforming and gaining smoke clouds doesnt make sense, and it def seemed more like a zoan than a paramecia in that end.
I think that people forgot that was Luffy that answered when all skipeans was asking for a god.
Besides wasn't Maxim clouds covering the sun? And wasn't Luffy that brought the sun back?
@edusmelo see?
I didn't see how this is foreshadowing. Are we going to say the same about Katakuri's burning mochi? Since mochi doesn't normally do that, he secretly have some mythical God Zoan fruit that the someone conveniently renamed??? And if we don't assume that then how does burning mochi work???
The other stuff is closer to themes rather than foreshadowing. There being Gods that people pray to doesn't mean Luffys fruit is a God fruit or that Gods even exist in the One piece universe prior to Wano. There was also no connection to Joyboy being a God and/or having a God devil fruit prior to Wano deep into act 3.
@michaelmerchant9870 we MET God devil fruit in marineford so they do have to exist.
Also, we did have confirmation of gods to begin with due to the flashback and praying, regardless sof how you loom at it- gods have always existed in the story metaphorically or not.
As far as burning mochi goes that was a toei special, in the manga he just jettissons his fist, no fire there.
In regards to literal foreshadowing, shanks having the fruit in the first place is not only deeply too convenient for it not to have been mildly in place at some point early in the series (due to shanks being shown to be WB level before skypeia), but also the fact that joyboy being mentioned in 800+ year old poneglyphs can easily be tied back to Roger and his journey in collecting them via skypeia writings he left behind, connecting him back to the "God" thread at least. Of which is difficult to fully deny.
Additionally, Robin stated directly that the skypeia poneglyphs pointed to Fishman island as the spot where posiedon would be. Looping the two poneglyphs directly. A.k.a. joyboy connects to skypeia somehow (a.k.a. Jaya), a land where Gods have always been a thing.
It's disingenuous to think that with all that skypeia had to offer in both storytelling and metaphysical that it is not alluding to godlike figures in some way shape or form.
One Piece fans are so desperate it's pathetic. Your favourite manga isn't perfectly written, accept it and move on.
I think what's going on here is that, although the ending of One Piece is figured out. The way we get there is not and Oda has given himself enough wiggle room by placing enough elements in the story that he can then go and retroactively tie back too. He's very good at it, but not always. There's a good analysts video by Mr Morj about how Oda is good at making it seem like his retroactive changes seem always planned and natural. Early One Piece knew HOW it was gonna get to the end, but then the manga got so popular that Oda had to extend the story (many times). Which means he no longer knew exactly how he was gonna get to the end he originally envisioned. I'm guessing after the first time he had to extend the story, he realized he needed to start placing narrative threads open ended enough for him to go back and tie back too, to give him enough flexibility to make changes to the story's direction to get to the ending of One Piece he originally envisioned. Which means Oda no longer knows exactly how he will get to end of One Piece and has to wrangle many narrative threads and weave them as seamlessly as possible to get to his ending.
I think someone LIKE Joy Boy was always planned from the begging, but not the details, and Oda always planned for him to be first brought up in some future arc that about the fishmen around the halfway point of the story. Now with regards with Gear 5. I really feel that Oda built up Kaido to be so strong that he genuinely could not figure out a way for Luffy to convincingly beat him. And Oda possibly already knew he was going to have trouble writing the ending of Wano during the Totto Land arc (or even way before since punk hazzard), because if you notice during the Katakuri fight Oda makes Katakuri comment on how weird Luffy's rubber fruit is and how that's not how rubber normally behaves. I think that was Oda giving himself a narrative out because he already knew he was gonna have to change SOMETHING about luffy's awakening in wano, but not sure exactly what. And even before then, I think he knew he needed to invent another power up for devil fruits to cap the end of the four emperor's saga, so luffy could beat kaido, since before punk hazzard. That's is to say, I don't think devil fruit awakenings were planned since the start of the story, they were invented during the post timeskip. (Just to comment on Haki real quick, I think something like haki was something Oda always wanted in the story, but didn't know how to go about it and the first two prototypes for it where mantra in Jaya and the six powers during water 7 with the system being fleshed out during the timeskip). Which also means that Oda already had some idea of what his awakening was going to be, only to probably change his mind during the end of Tottoland. Which is why all the relevant info about NIka happens only in wano, because Oda lacked so much confidence in his original awakening concept that he made a hard pivot to the right (last minute) and completely changed luffy's devil fruit type so he could give him a different awakening and write a more convincing end to the Kaido vs Luffy fight. Which leads me to believe that the Nika pose foreshadowing was actually foreshadowing for Joyboy that got retroactively changed to NIka foreshadowing once he changed the nature of his devil fruit. Which also leads me to believe that the events of void century and not set in stone and HAVE changed, even though the way the One Piece ends is set.......or you know, Oda could be lying about that and actually doesn't have anything set in stone and is the reason why the reveal of the One Piece will be the very last thing we are shown at the end of the story, Like the very last manga panel. And just has a vague notion of the manner in which he wants to end the story, but not the HOW.
TL;DR
After timeskip, when Oda was planning four emperors saga, Oda introduced the concept of awakenings to give luiffy a power-up to defeat Kaido.
During Totto Land he realized his original awakening for Luffy wasn't gonna result in a believable power-up that could be Kaido, after building him up so much.
Oda makes last minute DRASTIC changes to Luffy's devil fruit, during Wano, and gives him a different power up that can convincingly beat him and future stronger opponents.
Which is why the concept behind Gear 5 feels like it came out of nowhere and last minute and reveals that many of the key events of the void century were not planned from the start.
This sounds too plausible 👍
U need more subs, your channel is so underrated
Thank you!
Another problem you alluded to is people try to say "rubber can't do that" as an explanation for "foreshadowing" gear 5th (lol wow) is that explanation can only apply to the awakened form. Since Luffy wasn't awakened in gears 1?-4, the cartoon powers don't apply in those form. He only gets the rubber body as explained by the Goresei. There is literally zero explanation or reason given in story that suggest awakening work graduately.
You got to realize awakening in one piece doesn’t actually mean the word “awakening”. Like law awakens his fruit and all he gets is stinking his room when he could already size up his room. Or Kidd’s awakening only got turning things into magnets when he could already attract objects. Katakuri awakens his fruit to turn things into mochi when he could already hide anything in his mochi
Think of awakening as a sealed bottle of beer. The drink in the beer is the entire power. But you can’t open it so you have to deal with licking the wet sealed bottle which sort of has some beer on it but once you get a brain cell and realize if that’s how you open a beer and open it then you get the “full drink” or in short “I understand it now”
@@anime_world6684I only got about half of that ngl. Can you explain rob lucci awakening for me I never really understood how he powercrept so hard also what you think about his fight w zoro ?
@youngking4114 nothing special about lucci’s awakening. He’s a zoan so his true form was just becoming more animalistic and beastly to the leopard. In short his awakening is becoming a therian. Also lucci is a prodigy. It’s the perfect plot device for oda to say yeah he’s overpowered post timeskip and could “hang” with zoro
Gonna be fr, Oda didn't even have that planned 30 chapters in advance
Exactly
He tried planting it with Whos who after he realized he made Kaido way too strong
oda is dumb for not just utilizing the scar Kaido had being reopened by Zoro, where Luffy strikes at with all his power which allows him to win thanks to Advanced Armanent aka RYUOU. NO ADVANCED CONQUERORS COATING BS OR GEAR 5hit needed
@@Naan_Gang @bogiewoods3037 Both of yall are wrong in Chapter 990 Hyogoro says Luffy looks like a diety. Also the nature of awakenings were there before Wano. Why would an old scar not heal after 20 years, the Scabbards reopened it sure but Kaido even says it was shallow. Also I don't get how Gear 5 isnt needed if Kaido was hyped up. Thematically Gear 5 would need to be revealed in Wano as Wano is inspired by Japan "Land of the Rising Sun", and Luffy receives his awakening then. It's one thing to be critical but to ignore obvious story elements because you didnt catch them is dumb.
@@bangn521
JAPAN IS RISING SUN VROOOO
NO
No Gear 5HIT NIKA JESUS in the series in general
@@bangn521 His Awakening could EASILY be something cooler like Vulcanization instead of the bullshit Lolda came up with
12:00 luffy's df is human human zoan so i don't think he'll have some hybrid form of human on it
Do you enjoy one piece? I love this community so much the speculation and theory crafting is next level sometimes. But I think we forget to ask ourselves theory only question that matters every now and then. Do we still love this story no matter what's going on or regardless of answers? Yes, good! Stick around its only getting better 😌 ❤
No it wasn’t. Oda didn’t have this idea way back in 1997. I’d say at the earliest, Fishman Island Chapters, at the latest, Dressrosa chapters.
The thousand sunny ☀️ was definitely foreshadowing. So I’d say that Nila them probably fully emerged as a concept around water seven/skypieia
Anyone know about the movie that they say inspired once piece where humans are limited in their technological advancement, and there’s a music box or something inside the earth keeping the spell for the tech restriction going
I mean the show is called One Piece based on Luffy's end goal, and if Joyboy's story is connected to that somehow from the very beginning then it makes sense it may have been planned from the start. I mean, Arlong Park was based on Sabaody and Sabaody is the premium example of class disparities between the Celestial Dragons and everyone else, and if the CD were thought of back then, Imu might have been, as well. If Imu was thought up, then his story along with Joyboy's would be, too. From the very first scene of Roger saying "I left everything this world has to offer right there!" The old history was likely at least conceptualised along with Joyboy. Maybe Oda had time to flesh the story out over time, but it probably began with a simple "how fun would cartoon logic be in the real world?"
Yeah definitely agree with the points made, Oda's usually good at foreshadowing, dropping hints beforehand but the concept of Nika was mentionned for the first time 30 chapters before gear 5's reveal, it really feels like it was a last minute addition. He could've at least name dropped him before, by that point we had seen a bunch of giants and even had a flashback on Elbaph, so opportunities were there if that was an original intention. Hopefully the current arc can delve more into Nika now that we have him, just like the previous one did with Joyboy
I feel like the reveal couldve had better foreshadowing but i like the power up regardless. The only thing that bothers me is that the world government didnt do anything to stop the little rubber kid causing mischief in the east. Dont say its because no one has awaken the fruit in yeads so they didnt expect some random kid to do it. This is the same W.G that killed thousands of pregnant women and new born babies just to make sure a great pirate doesnt have a kid
Garp chased him, though." The hero of Marines". They probably thought it would be enough.
I wholly agree, and this is a big reason why I really don't like Gear 5 the way it is in the story, even if I like the visual design
I appreciate how thorough you were in this video and made points that align with your perspective for sure. Do I think Toon Force was planned? Definitely not, but I don't understand what you mean by the Gorosei "didn't hear about it." They very clearly do not want people exploring the Gomu Gomu No Mi and do not want to draw attention to it, so while they could send all of their forces to Luffy to try and focus on them (which is what they did as soon as they had a favorable moment in Egghead), they don't want to alert anyone to the importance of the fruit.
Im the sub 313, this Channel has potential. Keep up the good work
the easiest way to explain why the gorosei dont know about luffys fruit is because powers in one piece are sometimes just vaguely talked about like they call them power users or fruit users for like a majority of the pre time skip and when we see the gorosei there are more important matters they arent worried about a threat that hasnt happend yet like luffy because luffy isnt someone on their radar to begin with you have to take these things from the perspective of the character your taking in your perspective and saying how come they dont see luffy as a threat when its not talked about yea they wouldnt know what rubber powers look like to begin with they said its been alluding them for 800 years so thats a strong reason they dont know what he has yet until marine ford war since thats when hes on display they could of easily said his powers are stretching powers and not rubber or maybe luffy never told a marine agent his powers to begin with but he goes on a 2 year break so allocating energy to finding him would be pointless if they thought maybe he died or wasnt sure what he was doing. robin is a threat because of what she can do which is read the old pone glyphs but they dont know her location at all times and they arent an all seeing eye like you said they are we know their powers and there was no all seeing eye power shown. luffy in the beginning of the story is a nobody when realistically should they know that luffy has these powers are in marineford war but at that point he should of died and got saved and it still wasnt mentioned at all because luffy is still weak and a nobody we might give him all these titles and things but hes simply not a problem for the gorosei at this moment its at the point in wano where they try to kill him and he came back to life because they were scared of the fruits powers so realistically it took them 3 years plus to find out and allocate force to stop him which they thought they did and luffy got saved again. the next arc egghead they allocate a majority of their force to stopping him and still nothing could stop luffy.
First video of yours I'm checking out, but from the sgt frog pfp I can already tell you are a man of taste.
First off luffy's mythical zoan isn't even known.
We are unsure of what the beast is, it's a human model and it makes sense that Gear 3rd, Gear 2nd and gear 4th are the transformation.
It definitely woulsnt function for others like Kaido's and Marco's which are actually beast who's abilities and transformations actually deviate from the human appearance.
By that logic luffy was never going to change physically or have a hybrid form where he is half monster like the others.
Instead, the change would only apply physical properties since he is already human.
Chopper would have similar traits if he was human and not a reindeer that ate a human fruit
gear 2nd and gear 3rd arent even transformations. its just luffy creatively utilizing the properties of rubber to enhance his physical properties and attacks.
gear 2nd: inflating blood vessels to increase blood flow therefore giving him more explosive physical abilities (anime logic idk)
gear 3rd: inflating his bones so that his fist gets bigger thus doing more damage
both of which arent transformations
@Dave-su5cd you misunderstand the entire discourse. Nika and Chopper's fruit are model human.
Now, what happens if a human being eats a model of human fruit? It simply means they would only get ohyscial properties and abilities and not necessarily have a "transformation" in the sense that other zoans have.
So if we actually want to say that luffy has a transformation, then it would be his gears, do you understand?
His gears will substitute for hybrid forms of kaido and Lucci, and gear 5th will be full transformation like Kaido's dragon form. Remember, luffy is a zoan, and Gear5th is the full form which counts as full transformation
That sounds like a bunch of headcanon to me @@90sPotato
@frenchynoob which part of it hasn't happened in the show?
Everything I have mentioned here happened in the show, so how exactly is it head canon, or are you just throwing word salad around?
It's a discourse. If you don't have anything reasonable to add or disprove, then you can look away
@@90sPotato This is manga. Not a show. You read it. You do not watch it.
By your own logic Luffy's gears must be classified as awakenings in their own right, yet we know that's not how awakenings work. Paramecia awakenings function by externalizing the user's ability. Zoan awakenings only offer an increase of stamina. Why does Luffy's actual awakening give him both?
Because it is supposedly mythical? But that doesn't make any sense because it isn't based on anything other than an abstract idea. Songoku, Kaio, Orochi, and Yamato: their devil fruits are mythical and are based on concrete figures. "Nika", Joy, is not a figure but an idea. The only application that could work is JoyBoy, but that raises further questions (are dfs based on the wills of pre-existing people from the VC? That's what Vegapunk implied, but that doesn't explain how dfs came to be in and of themselves.)
And lastly, awakenings are not transformations. Not even Chopper's rumble balls and monster point is a transformation. Again, awakenings are the devil fruits power being externalized.
It is clear as day that this was not planned.
oda came up with gear 5th while in hospitle he came up with idea for a laugh that would devide fanbase it was a joke but publisher liked idea n said lets go with it,gear 5th was born
No
*audience gives a round of applause*
thank you, thank you, I'm here till Thursday
Joy boy? Possibly. Gear 5? Definitely not because that presupposes a loooooot about the story, including gears, DF awakening, and the origin of the Gomu Gomu no Mi
Subbed immediately when I heard your voice.
G5 was a mighty asspull, I had hard time accepting it... But one look at the gag, fell in love with it and luffy really needed this to be truly free. His fighting style was so apted for this transformation.. even the moves he does is pretty much from every fight he ever been to.
I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that Oda could’ve toyed with the idea when he first thought of devil fruit awakenings, which would’ve been in Impel Down at the earliest, I think. It’s definitely possible that he brainstormed some ideas for Luffy’s devil fruit awakening then, and maybe a cartoonish power set came up at some point, idk.
Oda said op was supposed to end after albasta and it's supposed to be a story of pirate vs the yonku
I'd say Luffy's awakening (Gear 5) was planned back in Dressrosa, since in that arc the concept was introduced and Luffy uses a new power up to defeat the first awakened DF user we met (also I like the theory that Gear 4 is an "incomplete awakening)
But Luffy's awakening being a Mythical Zoan...yeah, that came from Wano itself
My guess is that he came up with the idea around wholecake island. I remember Katakuri talking about how Luffys powers defied logic of just rubber (which for most of the series is just fun and a gag.) Yet here its specifically pointed out and acknowledged that its not normal for just rubber.
Feel free to correct if i misremembered anything
I'd been saying for years already that it was obvious Luffy's fruit was not what we thought it was before wano even started and so had plenty of others. We couldn't have thought that if it wasn't already being hinted at throughout the series. Theres many factors adding to Luffy getting some insane form eventually, the fact he's based on wukong/goku and they multiple forms he can take at will. Nami getting the staff and zues = power pole and nimbus which may seem a bit unrelated but it was obvious to me she'd get them both eventually and also that they will eventually likely be used by luffy one day/help him in someway (nika's staff too). The fact that Luffys fruit and choppers fruit act so similarly is another hint. Frankys top in Zou that said HITO with a sun symbol on it... Brook and luffy healing the same way I believe is a hint that we have another reveal coming too like with chopper. Chopper, Luffy, Brook and Robin all have mythical human fruits and models that fit their styles. Model Monster, Model Nika, Model Death/Reaper and Model Devil Call me crazy but if and when it happens I'll probably have people saying I didn't call it years in advance like people now are saying we didn't or couldn't have guessed in advance luffy's powers coming... It WAS foreshadowed
and the fact it’s in wano not government nation this infomation is avaliable unlike in the other island i can see where you are coming from but your using bias for your point
yeah idk why people cope and have to pretend there's foreshadowing behind this moment. It's weekly manga, authors retroactively build off of what they established without planning everything out all the time, and oda admits to doing so for some other scenarios in interviews. G5/Nika reveal is probably his worst executed moment at doing so, but I do think that he started toying with the idea that 'maybe luffy is a zoan' with gear 4. Some of the changes it makes to his form make absolutely zero sense even with the cartoon rubber logic (like the cloud scarf and the design/mark on his back)- still at that point I doubt he had nika planned. Even with the retcon though, I don't think the gorosei ever say they didn't know that luffy had the fruit- I think there's logical explanations as to why ramping up their attempted capture on luffy with no reason given via the marines would start to make people suspicious, but also I think everyone can admit them not even sending cp0 after the straw hats would be insane if this wasn't a retcon lol. Imu seems to care more about joyboy/nika more than anything, even more than he cares about the revolutiionary army that's literally laying siege to his city- so the gorosei not prioritizing this via cp0 wouldn't make much sense
put this video in a museum, a time-capsule - plzzzzzzz
Great vid
I imagine that he did have it planned from the beginning, but it was just one option. And as time went on he chose the options best for him. He clearly used retroactive foreshadowing for certain events, but that doesnt imply he made it up on the spot. Honestly your deductions used for your reasoning are clearly missing a lot. There were countless hints connecting luffy and joyboy before this that you didnt include. Plus theres likely more that isnt outright obvious to us now, but will be once oda reveals more. but its a key part of the mystery that oda didnt show it till now. Most of Nikas foreshadowing is the foreshadowing of the void century, which is deliberately made to be mysterious. Oda has said for a long time his goal with one piece, was to tell the story he had planned for the end. Odas epic god war finale was absolutely what he planned, especially if you look at concept arts for the failed series he had originally pitched.
to me, i think the power was probably planned from the start (seriously, it really does feels tailor-made for luffy) but it being a gear and being connected to nika probably came later
I believe he had the idea of the toon force planned out but didn't have gear 5th planned out and he worked backwards on how to get Luffy to the point where he can be a rubber hose cartoon character like Popeye or something
I feel like it is shaky to make this assessment when we are talking about the void century. Specifically, those who LOST during the void century. Joyboy may not be foreshadowed directly, but his people are constantly foreshadowed throughout the story. Almost exclusively through the poneglyphs, the only written record from that civilization, and word of mouth from
the few that know about what happened. The reason so much information is given in Wano is because Wano is an ancient country that has entirely cut itself off from the rest of the world w/o much WG fascist interference. Not to mention many other parts of the story, like the Will of D which I think is directly related to Joyboy's crew, haven't been fully explored yet. Still, none of this is technically foreshadowing for joyboy/g5 but that leads me to my point.
This is all to say that I agree. I don't think there is that much setup. But is that not the point? The entire world was seized by a fascist government 800 years ago that erased an entire century of history. Especially history regarding the ancient kingdom and Joyboy. Ohara is a perfect example of this--they found out too much, more than we know right now, and were immediately erased. If Oda was constantly setting shit up and foreshadowing it throughout the story, what is the point of it being called the "void century" when there is clearly enough information available early into the Grandline for us to start piecing it together? As we continue to explore the new world and visit countries or meet people outside of WG jurisdiction, we'll just continue finding new information that hasn't been erased yet.
Also ik I am yapping, but wdym his Zoan powers don't work like other Zoans????? Nika had a stretchy body... and his fruit is modeled after Nika. The rubbery properties of his fruit only exist because of who it is modeled after. I do agree tho, the Elders should have known from the jump lmao
Oda explained why he included he said he wanted to go back to the more goofy fights luffy used to be involved in. Ill just point this out in the most bare bones way luffy always represented the sun in one piece there's so much thematic and symbolic ties to it that you have to legitimately be blind not to notice he captains a ship called the thousand sunny. Oda simply found that if he wanted to continue writing the story the way he wants it he'd have to make it significantly more literal how luffy is the sun
I agree with everything except the it not being foreshadowed that it isn't the gum fruit , unlike the gag part u mentioned for growing back teeth both Lucci and doflamingo acknowledge the fact that luffys powers make no sense in context to rubber
Well thought video
HTANK YOU KALEB THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANKYOU THANKOYU
genuinely, one piece is my favorite anime (at one point, was more than just a favorite media franchise). but this is so important to have addressed !!!!!!!!!!
Many characters thoughtout the series comment about Luffy's strange abilities (gears, red hawk, etc) when he is suppose to be just a rubber man. There's no "direct connection" between the Gomu and Nika fruit because the real identity of the fruit is the resolution/payoff for what we have know for a very long time, this guy is not just a rubber man. Luffy best quality as a fighter is his creativity, his imagination. Gear 5 embodies the themes of the series. Wano have big problems as an arc, imo this tainted the perception of the Nika fruit reveal. You also completely dismiss the sun symbolism when Luffy's straw hat silouette is literally the sun.
as much as i also wholly agree with this, i also think one piece is still better off having gear 5th than not. execution definitely could be improved of course. i have a feeling the live action &or (hopefully) the remake anime will allude to it a lot more
Clearly was thought of during the udon mines.
Sorry, but Gear 5 was foreshadowed since the very beginning. The reason why it caught so many people out of guard was because the hints were hidden under anime cliches.
Luffy's name is literally the combination of Laugh + Goofy, his design is cartoonish and simple even for One Piece standards, his strength is ridiculous for his supposed "rubber" powers and he kept doing stuff than a rubber man was not supposed to be doing.
If you watch One Piece as an average anime fan you will be like "Luffy ignites his fist on fire or flies in Gear 4 just because of anime logic" but if you are someone who doesn't watch anime youu'll be like "hey, wtf is happening with Luffy"
I think those “hints” are really reaching. Especially the one about “rubber not being able to do what Luffy” is especially disingenuous. Nothing the One Piece characters can do is possible in any sense.
@jonathandelgado3755 You are misinterprting and dismissing evrrything I said with no basis and calling it a day. The hints are right there. I never said what Luffy does is impossible, I'm saying some of what Luffy doesn't make sense if he is just rubber. Also Luffy's name is literally Laugh + Goofy. ALSO the way he inflates his fist for gear 3 is literally how old cartoons fight. You are gonna say all of that is reaching when it's on your face in retrospective?
@@user-mp3pf2ir2p I’m sorry if I seemed pushy in my comment. But I still stand by saying that those reasons are really pushing. Luffy’s design being “simple and cartoony by OP standards” is kind of subjective when you’ve got other characters running around with sillier or less intricate designs as well. Not to mention his design got altered after the timeskip so it doesn’t really hold up. Also, to say Luffy’s name was inspired by two English words (which is a language Oda seems to have a vague understanding of) and saying that was the definitive intention behind it? Again, really reaching. Especially when Oda has never made any such comment.
And I’d be willing to wager even non-anime fans would just label Luffy’s powers as working under “anime logic” but just change the word “anime” with “cartoon” because that’s just how animated stories tend to work. They’re picky with their logic and go with what’ll make the story most interesting.
@jonathandelgado3755 Japanese language is literally intricated with English, saying Oda is not familiaf with English is crazy to be honest since he researches a lot AND EVEN THE 1ST CHAPTER'S TITLE IS WRITTEN IN LITERALLY ENGLISH 😆. Also Oda has hinted in an interview rhat he named Luffy like that because "it suits him", you gotta just be in denial if you don't think Luffy is the xombination of Laugh + Goofy, specially considering the emphasis the series has done to his laugh and goofyness since the Gear 5 reveal.
Your only defense is to just deny pretty obvious foreshadowing. You said you wager, but just as an example, I'm watching One Piece with my mom. She knows a lick about anime, and she is constantly pointing out weird stuff with Luffy since the beginning. She has always been suspect about how he coincidentally just keeps freeing countries, how durable and strong he is and how he just takes everything with a laugh after eating the fruit (in the ASL Flashback). My mom only suspects about the strength of both Sanji and Luffy, she nevrr has asked this about Zoro for example. You and I were just biased that's why the reveal caught us off guard. But in retrospective it was really well foreshadowed with all the hints that suddenly make more sense nos.
@ I think to say Oda has a great understanding of English is perfect based off of a handful of examples is a huge reach. I’m sure he knows some english. But enough to plan it out that deeply? I’m skeptical. Especially since Oda could’ve just outright said he used the two words instead of saying he “thought it fit him.” The latter of which could imply anything as simple as he just liked the way it sounded.
And no. It wasn’t obvious foreshadowing. Luffy’s actions are in line with the themes of the story. And of all the characters in the Strawhats, he’s the one who should be questioned the LEAST in strength. He ate a devil fruit, has immense strength of will, and is our main character. Of COURSE he’s absurdly strong. That’s anime mc plot armor. And keep in mind, Luffy wasn’t always happy in the ASL flashback. There’s at least three instances at the top of my head where he was miserable in that flashback alone.
I believe oda had planned joyboy since the one piece is his treasure and the straw hat being his too and all the void century setup. in terms of the nika fruit i think it was kind of planned too coz of shanks stealing it having to do something him knowing what it is coz he was a roger pirate,stealing a rubber fruit from the govt seems stupid other wise. i understand what youre saying too coz oda didnt really connect the sun god nika stuff well. I think he had a certain general idea and added stuff along the way
There's no way you dropped this purely out of luck on a week after jellyapocalypse vid.
I basically agree with what you said. I’ve kinda just thought that gear two could be possible the way it was written. And gear 3 and 4 was him kind of imagining that it could work so it did. As far as his Zina forms being off Mayby what we have seen as gear 5 is his hybrid form and we haven’t seen his beast form yet. Sun wu Kong kinda deal Maybe. At any rate this was a really good video and you got my sub.
i like your comment because i could totally see full joyboy transformation either being a lunarian or a giant (the giant straw hat). but they dont want to give that away too early. remember in joyboys first reveal panel he's buccaneer sized at a MINIMUM.
@ oh yeah! I haven’t thought about luffy becoming a lunarian of giant. It makes sense though.
Nika couldn’t be mentioned because nika is a taboo subject even to the Gorosei so he was hinted through symbolism and the silhouette the only way he could be mentioned was through the mention of the sun god whereas joyboy could be mentioned because it’s the name on the poneglyph.
Also the government and marines went after luffy plreanty of times but the could never catch him also they didn’t put any importance on the fruit because they didnt want to make it blatantly look like his fruit was special and draw attention to it.
I first thought that luffys fruit was different from dresrosa what flamingo said “this isn’t behaving like rubber” (something along those lines) I have a feeling this is when Oda started Brian storming or planting seeds
Doflammingo said that because Luffy was also using armament.
@ any chance you know which episode it was? I have been trying to find it for ages
You forgot about the mention in Ch. 287, Sun God was mentioned for the first time in Skypiea. This may not seem like much on its own, but considering the only time Joyboy/Sun God was mentioned was in isolated countries (skypiea, fishman, wano), those areas preserved history in their culture, which the WG obviously erased from the general public (humans). So the Sun imagery between all of these factions from those isolated areas are all connected pre-timeskip. It makes sense why there wasn't direct info on Nika since the existence of a being was erased, much like the Ancient Kingdom. Also the increasing emphasis of awakenings up until Wano, (Doffy - Dressrosa, Katakuri - WCI), Luffy was bound to get an awakening, we just didnt know when. Also, this is my own speculation, since Wano is heavily based of Japan, Luffy being revealed as the Sun God Nika and Japan's flag meaning "Land of the Rising Sun" is probably the reason why a bulk of it was revealed in Wano (they made the poneglyphs too), but existing threads were there before Wano.
The Sun God mentioned in Skypeia is the Giant Snake
@@KalebXKalebAnd what about Luffy being the answer for skypeans prays when they was asking for a god?
Yeah that check out with what I’ve said about Luffy being a liberator of the people, but that doesn’t automatically checkout as “Sun God Nika” stuff that that viewer/reader could’ve got back then
@@KalebXKaleb Well. When people is praying for someone to save them, this someone is a little bit more than a liberator. Even more in a fictional story, where people reaction is controlled.
The answer for their god claim is Luffy.
@@KalebXKalebYou are forgetting this isnt the first time a moniker has been adopted by other figures or beings. The fact the title Sun God was established prior to post timeskip is what I mean. Elbaf, Sun God is used as a title. The constant Sun imagery amongst these same isolated groups, the increasing importance of an awakening. The name Nika in it self is too important and specific to drop early. All the name Nika did was give a name to what these groups. Also in Ch. 990, Hyogoro thinks Luffy looked like a guardian diety.
Oda initially planned for the series to only last a few years but he introduced the Seven Warlords early on and that expanded the series. So no. He didn't plan out Gear 5 from the beginning. You could argue he planted the seeds as early as Fishman Island.
Zunisha may have been in the end of thriller bark... remember the silhouette 🤔
Eh sure, and just climbed over the red line to get into the new world without anyone noticing? Or had a dive through fishmen island?
The skypiea silloute was intentional though all his other ones was later changed - After Skypieans pray for a god at the end when the sun showed - Who did they show LUFFY
I hate the downplay
We got multiple mentions of the sun god in skypiea and wholecake, and symbols have been established as the most important thing for symbolism but we only got the name nika in wano. That’s usually how developing works building works
Joyboy tho yeah no mention except vivi portrayal of the straw hats in her quote at the end of alabasta
Not to be that guy but the only other mythical fruit that has 2 modes is the Hito Hito no Mi Model: Daibutsu with the base form and then the big transformation, but other than that everything else is right
i do think Joyboy was hinted in fishman island i dont see an issue wifh Luffy being next joyboy there but i do agree it's retcon and major issues with his fruit and existence of sun god nika and majorly how government didn't knew
Bro, it's more than hinted, Joy Boy was straight up mentioned in fishman island it was the first time he was ever name dropped
I hope you just hide previous version instead of deleting. Because RUclips hate that and may stop provide next video like " why should i provide his new video if he may just delete it too?"
otherwise it still good video and previous name really may be a real problem of low views.
Thank you for the support on the last one! And yes I think it was the titling and thumbnail but it worked better this time!
Wasnt joy boy also mentioned in skypiea? On the bell
Maybe you skip but Sun God was mentioned in Skypia. 😅
It’s the Giant Snake
@KalebXKaleb I think Sun God being mentioned is still a huge hint that Sun God Nika exist. It's just that The Void Century happened and the people of skypia assumed the giant snake as a sun God.
Sgt frog 🐸 brought me to watch this ke-ro ke-ro ke-ro
It most certainly a retcon
No for the simple fact that the idea of zoan's having will's of their own disillusion's everything that One Piece was built around prior to 1044.
*It implies that everything that led to Luffy eating the gumgum was in fact a manifestation of the zoan's will, including Who's Who losing it to the Red Hairs
*Luffy's abilities were never insinuated to be zoan-esque and begs the question why other zoan users don't achieve similar abilities
*It undermines everything Luffy worked for and endured by virtue that zoans grant the user enhanced physical capabilities
*After consuming the fruit the user knows what it is including its name and Luffy never refers to it as hitahita
*Sun symbology was only ever that while this makes everything far more literal and meaningless in retrospect
*It makes the world government come off as cartoonishly incompetent
Everything about this not only screams of retcon, it fundamentally destroys literal decades of consistent story logic and world building.
No gear 5 is a asspull
I ain’t sayin’ nuthin!
No I'm pretty sure he just made up a lot of this shit as he went along
No, the story was supposed to end after 5 years and there was not a single sign about gear 5, the nika fruit or even haki. this all came later
How did you miss that blatant foreshadowing panel from Skypeia? People have been connecting Luffy to the sun long before Wano.
The world government didn't know about the fruit until last minute go back to chapter 1037 every gorosei there were shocked about the fruit having a different name. The problem is who told them the only logical thing is imu and for that we have to wait and see why imu waited so long. One of the reasons might be because he was too afraid of joyboy power so him or other people wanted to change the name to make it where no one will be able to awaken it. You might argue but the rubber how couldn't the WG find out multiple fruits have similar abilities but still unique. Biggest example pica (stone) vs Pizzarro (island)
The Skypea connections are pretty well-established at this point. I'm very surprised to hear you push back against that. There's even a very early SBS where Oda mentions that campfire scene in particular as one of his favorites. That's why everyone brings it up when talking about foreshadowing in One Piece. Maybe not EVERY aspect of Joyboy was thoight about beforehand, but Oda definitely intended for Luffy to become some god-like savior and liberator by the end of the story.
Also, you said "most 'evidence' only makes sense in retrospect." Bro. That's literally how foreshadowing works. Be a G5 hater all you want, but I am not convinced in the slightest by your arguments. (Except the World Government part. Ya got me there.)
@@Radi0actvChickn If foreshadowing is too obscure to clue your audience in that something is going to happen in the future, then it's bad foreshadowing.
Stuff like saying "This panel was Oda's favourite that's proof!" is actually proof that G5's foreshadowing was bad to non-existent and you're just a desperate Oda glazer
@universalshadow In my opinion, foreshadowing should only be obvious on rewatch. I am perfectly fine with it being vague enough the first time that nobody understands what it means until later. I prefer it that way.
Joyboy was first mentioned in skypea
By name?
Nope👎
Joyboy was actively mentioned, by name, in chapter 628/Episode 548.
Nico Robin reads his name one the Fishman Island Poneglyph.
Its hard to write a story if you dont know how it ends
it wasnt
Brother at the end of the video you literally went full on delulu.
There are no nonsense gags in one piece, all of them have to make logical sense according to the world. Like every single thing has a reason or explaination behind it. Like Nami's greed, ussop's lies, sanji's obssesion with food etc are gags but also explained via their backstory. Similarly all inhuman feats, gags or not have and need explaination.
The reason brook can gorw back a tooth after drinking milk is because its a extention of his devil fruit ability, he has always been able to do this even in pre timeskip just like how luffy regens after eating meat.
Luffy growing back a tooth on the other hand is the proof and the foreshadowing to his toon force. He can do it because he thinks he can do it.
His gear's exactly resemble zooan transformation idk what ur on about, like bruh gear 3 is literally arm point lmao. There is also the moment in punk hazar where after turning into a dragon momo specifically askes luffy how to transform back and he says "Idk I am not a zooan" while looking edgy. There is no reason for this scene to exist other than foreshadowing.
Also he can do a lot of fire moves just because he believes he has inherited ace's legace. Like red hawk/ red rock. and he can even run fast enough that he leaves fire in his trail.
I personally believe oda always knew about luffy's fruit being special and maybe even it being a zooan. But its in fishman island that he solidified the idea of gear 5. but the connection of "sun god nika" is the only part that didn;t exist before wano.
Nami's gag does not have a explaination as of yet, you could say thats just luffy "spreading" his toon force like he does with gear 5 to make other peopel pop their eyes out. But thats stretching it to the moon.
I believe she has some form of unrefined haki speciality. Two instances especially strenthed this belief.
1. She somehow survived multiple haki coated head butts from ulti. That is not possible unless nami herself has haki. She is probably unknowingly using it like how zoro did against mr1 in alabasta.
2. Jinbe looked at nami's aura when she hits everyone and called it color of supereme king haki.
3. She is the only one we have seen be able to do it. or more specifically the only 'weak' character we have seen do impossible feats.
Jajaja of course not!
No it wasn’t
ruclips.net/video/SRG9B5jJmi4/видео.htmlfeature=shared&t=370 I don't remember this imagery being in the manga
I dont think so, Luffy Bounty was way too low for having a Devil Fruit the Governmeent wanted
As usual cultist are scared to exposed this overrated trash manga 😴
lazy bait 😴
You a cultists lil bro😂
@ you a Mid Piece cultist brudda 🤣
@@TheBladeForge blind cult fanboy 🥱
@@banjonetero2376 blind cult fanboy lol
Gear five always existed. It's the other 4 gears that weren't planned. Fishman island was long ago planned. Jimbe was discussed at Arlong Park. So most of Fishman Island wasn't an after thought. It was the red poneglyphs that were the afterthough. I wasn't a thing. There is a lot of discussion about why the Red Poneglyph disappeared from Fishman Island. The answer is obvious. It didn't exist when Oda wrote Fishman Island. He created them to extend the story. But Luffy was always going to become the reincarnation of a God. Was he named Nika? Nah. Was there a being specifically named Joyboy who'd previously been linked to Luffy's Devil Fruit at the time of writing East Blue? Nah. But 800 years of the world government has been a thing for a very long time. Oda had an outline of the 5th gear awakening happening all along. It's 4 emperors things that was added to the story later. The 7 warlords were the original gauntlet of villians Luffy was supposed to defeat. Oda created a lot of things that got added to orignal outline of One Piece. But Luffy was always supposed to awaken the Fruit.
Gear 5 never existed😂
Nika means toothy grin
it's onomatopoeia was used in chapter one
I was watching a series a while back where a teacher who'd never seen/read one piece read and reviewed each arc. She "predicted" Luffy was a god in little garden and was "convinced Luffy is a Sun God" by Skypiea. I call bs, there is no way someone who just happened to start reading one piece after Gear 5ths debut accurately predicted Luffy was a Sun God specifically.
No I'm pretty sure he just made up a lot of this shit as he went along.