I am a gay male who related with a lot of your points on how women assess partners and process arousal. It's actually really validating, thank you. It also makes sense, as if you study neuroanatomy, there are a lot of similarities in the brain structures of straight females & gay males, and (although far more rarely studied) gay females & straight males. I had never personally witnessed the behavioral similarity though
There is a whole chapter on gay men and the ways that they process physical desire... and there is overlap with female desire for sure! I also think that there are non-gay males who also process desire this way, what I'd call neurotypically divergent males. We should never be ashamed about how we process life, so I'm glad this helps!
Very insightful! Sexual psychology is an interest of mine and I found that many of the theories presented are thought provoking! The jobs seen as alpha male was a surprise
~40:30 If a man has to learn to become "soft and sweet and gooey when the time is right" (meaning what a man naturally isn't but that's what women want so he just has to oblige if he wants a serious relationship) along with all the other traits (competent, reliable etc. etc.), does this mean that a woman has to learn to become "submissive and permissible" in the right times as well (since this is what men want according to the book and internet porn, essentially "loyal, elegant, classy, cultured saint in the streets, perverted sex slave in the sheets")? The greater point I really have is - people seem to use evolutionary psychology extremely instrumentally. It's either "this is our underlying code, it's terrible and we should work to fix it at all times and engineer society and culture in order to repress it or change it" (when its something they find annoying to them personally), or its the opposite - "hey, it's how things are, deal with it or accept being an evolutionary dead end" (when it's beneficial to them). In my opinion it makes perfect sense for men to be expected to mature up and accept that their wife won't be a perfect big titty goth gf perverted sex machine and they have to become dependable and cultivate a balanced parenting disposition, but why isn't such a maturation ever expected of women, at least nowhere near as fervently? People give huge push back even on the tiniest things like women approaching men and asking them out on dates instead, or splitting the restaurant bill. Let alone easing on all the other criteria they have. It's immature for a man to want an attractive loyal young woman, but it's perfectly mature for women to want "surgeons, princes, bosses" and whatever the rest of the job descriptions were. Or at least it's more accepted as normal and "just how things are".
Well, I am of the opinion that science can't determine ethics or moral codes, much less tell us how to behave as a society. It simply states the general bent of human nature. Men are attracted, as you said, to certain cues, while women are attracted to position and security. In a perfect world, a man would find his young wife, and she would be attracted to his competence and the security he represents. This isn't a perfect world. Obviously. #1 - The pendulum has shifted to favor women over men (in North America/Western Europe). (In other parts of the globe we have other situations going on.) #2 - Men aren't content with their young wives. When the reality of life sets in, when his big-boobed young wife gets sagging tits, he's out looking at the next one. #3 - When they are met with inevitable disappointment in the opposite sex, women either become archetypal devouring mothers, sirens/succubi, or doormats. And that's not mentioning other weird societal crap that happens like things happening to kids and all that, which harms their natural psychological growth and adds a wrench in this already complicated proceedings. At any rate, it should be clear from other channel videos that I'm a huge believer in women integrating their animus. I dislike how women are behaving, but then... I've disliked how women have gotten away with crap for a long time. Women have always been and will always be to a large degree more sheltered than men because having a baby is a thing for women, and the human species requires women to keep having them. Even during the conservative heyday, we had a lot of women not integrating their animus and learning to cope for themselves because the strong, conservative men weren't always allowing their wives to psychologically develop. The tyrannical father is just as destructive as the devouring mother. Now we have the devouring mother society that doesn't want to teach women to be capable individuals because they want us to rely on the state. Either way, women have been shafted and will continue to thrive in unhealthy ways at the expense of other women and men. Men will continue to figure out ways to enjoy themselves with minimal responsibility, albeit now hampered by the state breathing down their necks.
@@chiekokurokumo You missed my point. I'm not arguing with the book (with which I agree), I'm arguing with you. You read the book and your takeaway was the same as the women going down the path of the "devouring mother" - "that's just how female nature is, and if men want a serious relationship they should just step up or get left behind". I didn't hear an acknowledgement of how far male nature has already been curbed, and that maybe females have to do the same with their own nature for example. You even mentioned the cringe redpiller idea of wanting a young virgin for a wife, brought up by you with obvious derision, ridicule and laughter, but I didn't hear that same tone and derision when you described the reasons for women wanting "surgeons, princes, bosses" etc. (the detective agency idea) even though they are equally childish, immature and worthy of laughter in our current state of civilization. You are perpetuating the prevalent double standard that women can want whatever they like and they deserve it because that's simply their nature, but men can't want what their nature dictates because then they are creeps and cringe redpillers. Which is it - innate nature good or innate nature bad? As for the rest: #1 - The pendulum has been artificially forced, but it's not like women have not taken full advantage of the situation, kicking men while they are down and gloating how much better they have it and how they deserve everything while men deserve their suffering in the process, rather than realizing that what is happening is wrong and should distance themselves from it, even if it is beneficial to them. At least its beneficial in the short term, the ever increasing right backlash (both in numbers and nudging further to the extreme) I suspect will leave us in a worse situation than we were previously before the "woke" advent. And it's almost certain that women will be the biggest losers of this whole experiment. That or if no backlash happens just the worsening economic situation, partly fueled by the bad social environment, will crash us all. #2 - Excuse me what? Which men aren't content with their young wives exactly? An increasing number of men are virgins in their 30s, have never had a relationship, and can't get any female attention, let alone having a young wife. Women nowadays tend to gravitate towards a small number of men which make these men spoiled for choice, so they don't settle down and might change their partner for any tiny reason because they have a queue of women waiting on them. That's a tiny majority of men though. And are these men at fault here? Why are all these women rejecting regular men that would put them on a pedestal, and going after the unavailable men that only want to use them and toss them aside? Then complain that all men are "fuckbois and trash". LMAO. If we can paraphrase the "you are what you eat" line, one can argue that we are the sum of our decisions. So why are so many women today making "trash" decisions? What does that make them? #3 - Are women met with disappointment... or are they just entitled and have immature expectations? If a man can't get the relationship he wants, the number 1 "advice" he will immediately receive is a combination of "change your standards" (the hot women you are aiming at aren't good women, at least not good for a serious relationships) and "stop complaining and get better" (you aren't on the level of the women you want). A woman changing their standard is considered "settling down" and "not getting what you deserve". And women changing her behavior for a man is pretty much unheard of as an advice because every woman things she's a catch already, and second if someone give such an advice they will be viewed as chauvinistic. So again, we expect men to mature and grow out of their wannabe Casanova childish ideas... but women's childish ideas about relationships and their potential partners are perfectly fine, they don't have to calibrate to reality, it's justified if they get bitter - men were just not good enough and they should do better. "Things happening to kids" happen to all kids - boys and girls both. And it's not an excuse for anything, in the same way how if you are poor that's no excuse for stealing. Despite my language (fashioned around how this conversion usually goes online and your video) - I actually don't care about "women" and "men". Our current social fabric problems aren't because of "women" and "men" but because individuals refuse to use the head on their shoulders, and dig both theirs, their fellow citizens, and society's grave in the process. But that's entirely on them. That's also why I have zero sympathy for these stories of women getting completely destroyed by the men they desire (getting cheated on, or drugged and raped at the club), or men destroying themselves by simping for obviously horrible women that use them (whether its e-thots or brutal divorces). Should have used that head of theirs when it was the right time. Though it should absolutely go without saying that society in general has been perpetuating and cultivating absolutely horrendous "values" and everything we are seeing playing out is to a large extend a result of that. I don't see how women have been shafted. Women literally have an all they can eat buffet in front of them for the last several decades, and are miserable not for any other reason but because of their own bad individual decisions. Literally no other group in history has had it better, with more opportunities and ease of achieving a great fulfilling happy life than women have it today. Though I agree about men - they will continue to distance themselves from women and sink deeper into their hobbies, but the reality is that from this again women will be the ones suffering the most and crying about it and making it everyone else's problem, rather than realizing it's their fault in the first place and they are the only ones that can fix it by doing what they demand from men - growing up.
@@chiekokurokumo You missed my point. I'm not arguing with the book (with which I agree), I'm arguing with you. You read the book and your takeaway was the same as the women going down the path of the "devouring mother" - "that's just how female nature is, and if men want a serious relationship they should just step up or get left behind". I didn't hear an acknowledgement of how far male nature has already been curbed, and that maybe females have to do the same with their own nature for example. You even mentioned the cringe redpiller idea of wanting a young virgin for a wife, brought up by you with obvious derision, ridicule and laughter, but I didn't hear that same tone and derision when you described the reasons for women wanting "surgeons, princes, bosses" etc. (the detective agency idea) even though they are equally childish, immature and worthy of laughter in our current state of civilization. You are perpetuating the prevalent double standard that women can want whatever they like and they deserve it because that's simply their nature, but men can't want what their nature dictates because then they are creeps and cringe redpillers. Which is it - innate nature good or innate nature bad? As for the rest: #1 - The pendulum has been artificially forced, but it's not like women have not taken full advantage of the situation, kicking men while they are down and gloating how much better they have it and how they deserve everything while men deserve their suffering in the process, rather than realizing that what is happening is wrong and should distance themselves from it, even if it is beneficial to them. At least its beneficial in the short term, the ever increasing right backlash (both in numbers and nudging further to the extreme) I suspect will leave us in a worse situation than we were previously before the "woke" advent. And it's almost certain that women will be the biggest losers of this whole experiment. That or if no backlash happens just the worsening economic situation, partly fueled by the bad social environment, will crash us all. #2 - Excuse me what? Which men aren't content with their young wives exactly? An increasing number of men are virgins in their 30s, have never had a relationship, and can't get any female attention, let alone having a young wife. Women nowadays tend to gravitate towards a small number of men which make these men spoiled for choice, so they don't settle down and might change their partner for any tiny reason because they have a queue of women waiting on them. That's a tiny majority of men though. And are these men at fault here? Why are all these women rejecting regular men that would put them on a pedestal, and going after the unavailable men that only want to use them and toss them aside? Then complain that all men are "fuckbois and trash". LMAO. If we can paraphrase the "you are what you eat" line, one can argue that we are the sum of our decisions. So why are so many women today making "trash" decisions? What does that make them? #3 - Are women met with disappointment... or are they just entitled and have immature expectations? If a man can't get the relationship he wants, the number 1 "advice" he will immediately receive is a combination of "change your standards" (the hot women you are aiming at aren't good women, at least not good for a serious relationships) and "stop complaining and get better" (you aren't on the level of the women you want). A woman changing their standard is considered "settling down" and "not getting what you deserve". And women changing her behavior for a man is pretty much unheard of as an advice because every woman things she's a catch already, and second if someone give such an advice they will be viewed as chauvinistic. So again, we expect men to mature and grow out of their wannabe Casanova childish ideas... but women's childish ideas about relationships and their potential partners are perfectly fine, they don't have to calibrate to reality, it's justified if they get bitter - men were just not good enough and they should do better. "Things happening to kids" happen to all kids - boys and girls both. And it's not an excuse for anything, in the same way how if you are poor that's no excuse for stealing. Despite my language (fashioned around how this conversion usually goes online and your video) - I actually don't care about "women" and "men". Our current social fabric problems aren't because of "women" and "men" but because individuals refuse to use the head on their shoulders, and dig both theirs, their fellow citizens, and society's grave in the process. But that's entirely on them. That's also why I have zero sympathy for these stories of women getting completely destroyed by the men they desire (getting cheated on, or drugged and r@ ped at the club), or men destroying themselves by simping for obviously horrible women that use them (whether its e-thots or brutal divorces). Should have used that head of theirs when it was the right time. Though it should absolutely go without saying that society in general has been perpetuating and cultivating absolutely horrendous "values" and everything we are seeing playing out is to a large extend a result of that. I don't see how women have been shafted. Women literally have an all they can eat buffet in front of them for the last several decades, and are miserable not for any other reason but because of their own bad individual decisions. Literally no other group in history has had it better, with more opportunities and ease of achieving a great fulfilling happy life than women have it today. Though I agree about men - they will continue to distance themselves from women and sink deeper into their hobbies, but the reality is that from this again women will be the ones suffering the most and crying about it and making it everyone else's problem, rather than realizing it's their fault in the first place and they are the only ones that can fix it by doing what they demand from men - growing up.
@@chiekokurokumo You missed my point. I'm not arguing with the book (with which I agree), I'm arguing with you. You read the book and your takeaway was the same as the women going down the path of the "devouring mother" - "that's just how female nature is, and if men want a serious relationship they should just step up or get left behind". I didn't hear an acknowledgement of how far male nature has already been curbed, and that maybe females have to do the same with their own nature for example. You even mentioned the cringe redpiller idea of wanting a young virgin for a wife, brought up by you with obvious derision, ridicule and laughter, but I didn't hear that same tone and derision when you described the reasons for women wanting "surgeons, princes, bosses" etc. (the detective agency idea) even though they are equally childish, immature and worthy of laughter in our current state of civilization. You are perpetuating the prevalent double standard that women can want whatever they like and they deserve it because that's simply their nature, but men can't want what their nature dictates because then they are creeps and cringe redpillers. Which is it - innate nature good or innate nature bad? As for the rest: #1 - The pendulum has been artificially forced, but it's not like women have not taken full advantage of the situation, kicking men while they are down and gloating how much better they have it and how they deserve everything while men deserve their suffering in the process, rather than realizing that what is happening is wrong and should distance themselves from it, even if it is beneficial to them. At least its beneficial in the short term, the ever increasing right backlash (both in numbers and nudging further to the extreme) I suspect will leave us in a worse situation than we were previously before the "woke" advent. And it's almost certain that women will be the biggest losers of this whole experiment. That or if no backlash happens just the worsening economic situation, partly fueled by the bad social environment, will crash us all. #2 - Excuse me what? Which men aren't content with their young wives exactly? An increasing number of men are virgins in their 30s, have never had a relationship, and can't get any female attention, let alone having a young wife. Women nowadays tend to gravitate towards a small number of men which make these men spoiled for choice, so they don't settle down and might change their partner for any tiny reason because they have a queue of women waiting on them. That's a tiny majority of men though. And are these men at fault here? Why are all these women rejecting regular men that would put them on a pedestal, and going after the unavailable men that only want to use them and toss them aside? Then complain that all men are "fuckbois and trash". LMAO. If we can paraphrase the "you are what you eat" line, one can argue that we are the sum of our decisions. So why are so many women today making "trash" decisions? What does that make them? #3 - Are women met with disappointment... or are they just entitled and have immature expectations? If a man can't get the relationship he wants, the number 1 "advice" he will immediately receive is a combination of "change your standards" (the hot women you are aiming at aren't good women, at least not good for a serious relationships) and "stop complaining and get better" (you aren't on the level of the women you want). A woman changing their standard is considered "settling down" and "not getting what you deserve". And women changing her behavior for a man is pretty much unheard of as an advice because every woman things she's a catch already, and second if someone give such an advice they will be viewed as chauvinistic. So again, we expect men to mature and grow out of their wannabe Casanova childish ideas... but women's childish ideas about relationships and their potential partners are perfectly fine, they don't have to calibrate to reality, it's justified if they get bitter - men were just not good enough and they should do better. "Things happening to kids" happen to all kids - boys and girls both. And it's not an excuse for anything, in the same way how if you are poor that's no excuse for stealing. Despite my language (fashioned around how this conversion usually goes online and your video) - I actually don't care about "women" and "men". Our current social fabric problems aren't because of "women" and "men" but because individuals refuse to use the head on their shoulders, and dig both theirs, their fellow citizens, and society's grave in the process. But that's entirely on them. That's also why I have zero sympathy for these stories of women getting completely destroyed by the men they desire (getting cheated on, or drugged and r@ ped at the club), or men destroying themselves by simping for obviously horrible women that use them (whether its e-thots or brutal divorces). Should have used that head of theirs when it was the right time. Though it should absolutely go without saying that society in general has been perpetuating and cultivating absolutely horrendous "values" and everything we are seeing playing out is to a large extend a result of that. I don't see how women have been shafted. Women literally have an all they can eat buffet in front of them for the last several decades, and are miserable not for any other reason but because of their own bad individual decisions. Literally no other group in history has had it better, with more opportunities and ease of achieving a great fulfilling happy life than women have it today. Though I agree about men - they will continue to distance themselves from women and sink deeper into their hobbies, but the reality is that from this again women will be the ones suffering the most and crying about it and making it everyone else's problem, rather than realizing it's their fault in the first place and they are the only ones that can fix it by doing what they demand from men - growing up.
@@chiekokurokumo You missed my point. I'm not arguing with the book (with which I agree), I'm arguing with you. You read the book and your takeaway was the same as the women going down the path of the "devouring mother" - "that's just how female nature is, and if men want a serious relationship they should just step up or get left behind". I didn't hear an acknowledgement of how far male nature has already been curbed, and that maybe females have to do the same with their own nature for example. You even mentioned the cringe redpiller idea of wanting a young virgin for a wife, brought up by you with obvious derision, ridicule and laughter, but I didn't hear that same tone and derision when you described the reasons for women wanting "surgeons, princes, bosses" etc. (the detective agency idea) even though they are equally childish, immature and worthy of laughter in our current state of civilization. You are perpetuating the prevalent double standard that women can want whatever they like and they deserve it because that's simply their nature, but men can't want what their nature dictates because then they are creeps and cringe redpillers. Which is it - innate nature good or innate nature bad? As for the rest: #1 - The pendulum has been artificially forced, but it's not like women have not taken full advantage of the situation, kicking men while they are down and gloating how much better they have it and how they deserve everything while men deserve their suffering in the process, rather than realizing that what is happening is wrong and should distance themselves from it, even if it is beneficial to them. At least its beneficial in the short term, the ever increasing right backlash (both in numbers and nudging further to the extreme) I suspect will leave us in a worse situation than we were previously before the "woke" advent. And it's almost certain that women will be the biggest losers of this whole experiment. That or if no backlash happens just the worsening economic situation, partly fueled by the bad social environment, will crash us all. #2 - Excuse me what? Which men aren't content with their young wives exactly? An increasing number of men are virgins in their 30s, have never had a relationship, and can't get any female attention, let alone having a young wife. Women nowadays tend to gravitate towards a small number of men which make these men spoiled for choice, so they don't settle down and might change their partner for any tiny reason because they have a queue of women waiting on them. That's a tiny majority of men though. And are these men at fault here? Why are all these women rejecting regular men that would put them on a pedestal, and going after the unavailable men that only want to use them and toss them aside? Then complain that all men are "fuckbois and trash". LMAO. If we can paraphrase the "you are what you eat" line, one can argue that we are the sum of our decisions. So why are so many women today making "trash" decisions? What does that make them? #3 - Are women met with disappointment... or are they just entitled and have immature expectations? If a man can't get the relationship he wants, the number 1 "advice" he will immediately receive is a combination of "change your standards" (the hot women you are aiming at aren't good women, at least not good for a serious relationships) and "stop complaining and get better" (you aren't on the level of the women you want). A woman changing their standard is considered "settling down" and "not getting what you deserve". And women changing her behavior for a man is pretty much unheard of as an advice because every woman things she's a catch already, and second if someone give such an advice they will be viewed as chauvinistic. So again, we expect men to mature and grow out of their wannabe Casanova childish ideas... but women's childish ideas about relationships and their potential partners are perfectly fine, they don't have to calibrate to reality, it's justified if they get bitter - men were just not good enough and they should do better. "Things happening to kids" happen to all kids - boys and girls both. And it's not an excuse for anything, in the same way how if you are poor that's no excuse for stealing. Despite my language (fashioned around how this conversion usually goes online and your video) - I actually don't care about "women" and "men". Our current social fabric problems aren't because of "women" and "men" but because individuals refuse to use the head on their shoulders, and dig both theirs, their fellow citizens, and society's grave in the process. But that's entirely on them. That's also why I have zero sympathy for these stories of women getting completely destroyed by the men they desire (getting cheated on, or dru gged and r@ ped at the club), or men destroying themselves by simping for obviously horrible women that use them (whether its eth0ts or brutal divorces). Should have used that head of theirs when it was the right time. Though it should absolutely go without saying that society in general has been perpetuating and cultivating absolutely horrendous "values" and everything we are seeing playing out is to a large extend a result of that. I don't see how women have been shafted. Women literally have an all they can eat buffet in front of them for the last several decades, and are miserable not for any other reason but because of their own bad individual decisions. Literally no other group in history has had it better, with more opportunities and ease of achieving a great fulfilling happy life than women have it today. Though I agree about men - they will continue to distance themselves from women and sink deeper into their hobbies, but the reality is that from this again women will be the ones suffering the most and crying about it and making it everyone else's problem, rather than realizing it's their fault in the first place and they are the only ones that can fix it by doing what they demand from men - growing up.
In my humble opinion, as a female who has been both with and without sex, I think it is just a distraction, and a very ugly vice that causes people a lot of pain. Unless you're a committed loving relationship and especially if you intend to have kids, it's a necessary evil. Sex is a biological urge to be purged- satiated in most basic means and then forgotten. Society delves way too much into sex and the vice of gratification. It's not that deep, and it's not a "good" thing.
I've not yet stepped across that threshold, and I've not fully regretted that. It sounds like something people enjoy, but it's also very complicated and messes with people.
Having a female partner who thinks that sex is a "necessary evil" is a nightmare for any healthy man. I agree that overindulgence is also unhealthy. But just imagine being a man and having this need to be accepted on an intimate level by a woman and knowing that your partner views that need as something to be "purged". That's not a recipe for a healthy and functional marriage.
![[Review] Fascinating... Free Women, Free Men: Sex, Gender, Feminism by Camille Paglia](/img/1.gif)
going to listen to this when I am on a jog so I can focus on this without distraction, then i’ll come back with some of my thoughts
I am a gay male who related with a lot of your points on how women assess partners and process arousal. It's actually really validating, thank you. It also makes sense, as if you study neuroanatomy, there are a lot of similarities in the brain structures of straight females & gay males, and (although far more rarely studied) gay females & straight males. I had never personally witnessed the behavioral similarity though
There is a whole chapter on gay men and the ways that they process physical desire... and there is overlap with female desire for sure! I also think that there are non-gay males who also process desire this way, what I'd call neurotypically divergent males. We should never be ashamed about how we process life, so I'm glad this helps!
Very insightful! Sexual psychology is an interest of mine and I found that many of the theories presented are thought provoking! The jobs seen as alpha male was a surprise
~40:30 If a man has to learn to become "soft and sweet and gooey when the time is right" (meaning what a man naturally isn't but that's what women want so he just has to oblige if he wants a serious relationship) along with all the other traits (competent, reliable etc. etc.), does this mean that a woman has to learn to become "submissive and permissible" in the right times as well (since this is what men want according to the book and internet porn, essentially "loyal, elegant, classy, cultured saint in the streets, perverted sex slave in the sheets")?
The greater point I really have is - people seem to use evolutionary psychology extremely instrumentally. It's either "this is our underlying code, it's terrible and we should work to fix it at all times and engineer society and culture in order to repress it or change it" (when its something they find annoying to them personally), or its the opposite - "hey, it's how things are, deal with it or accept being an evolutionary dead end" (when it's beneficial to them). In my opinion it makes perfect sense for men to be expected to mature up and accept that their wife won't be a perfect big titty goth gf perverted sex machine and they have to become dependable and cultivate a balanced parenting disposition, but why isn't such a maturation ever expected of women, at least nowhere near as fervently? People give huge push back even on the tiniest things like women approaching men and asking them out on dates instead, or splitting the restaurant bill. Let alone easing on all the other criteria they have. It's immature for a man to want an attractive loyal young woman, but it's perfectly mature for women to want "surgeons, princes, bosses" and whatever the rest of the job descriptions were. Or at least it's more accepted as normal and "just how things are".
Well, I am of the opinion that science can't determine ethics or moral codes, much less tell us how to behave as a society. It simply states the general bent of human nature. Men are attracted, as you said, to certain cues, while women are attracted to position and security. In a perfect world, a man would find his young wife, and she would be attracted to his competence and the security he represents.
This isn't a perfect world. Obviously. #1 - The pendulum has shifted to favor women over men (in North America/Western Europe). (In other parts of the globe we have other situations going on.) #2 - Men aren't content with their young wives. When the reality of life sets in, when his big-boobed young wife gets sagging tits, he's out looking at the next one. #3 - When they are met with inevitable disappointment in the opposite sex, women either become archetypal devouring mothers, sirens/succubi, or doormats. And that's not mentioning other weird societal crap that happens like things happening to kids and all that, which harms their natural psychological growth and adds a wrench in this already complicated proceedings.
At any rate, it should be clear from other channel videos that I'm a huge believer in women integrating their animus. I dislike how women are behaving, but then... I've disliked how women have gotten away with crap for a long time. Women have always been and will always be to a large degree more sheltered than men because having a baby is a thing for women, and the human species requires women to keep having them. Even during the conservative heyday, we had a lot of women not integrating their animus and learning to cope for themselves because the strong, conservative men weren't always allowing their wives to psychologically develop. The tyrannical father is just as destructive as the devouring mother. Now we have the devouring mother society that doesn't want to teach women to be capable individuals because they want us to rely on the state.
Either way, women have been shafted and will continue to thrive in unhealthy ways at the expense of other women and men. Men will continue to figure out ways to enjoy themselves with minimal responsibility, albeit now hampered by the state breathing down their necks.
@@chiekokurokumo You missed my point. I'm not arguing with the book (with which I agree), I'm arguing with you. You read the book and your takeaway was the same as the women going down the path of the "devouring mother" - "that's just how female nature is, and if men want a serious relationship they should just step up or get left behind". I didn't hear an acknowledgement of how far male nature has already been curbed, and that maybe females have to do the same with their own nature for example. You even mentioned the cringe redpiller idea of wanting a young virgin for a wife, brought up by you with obvious derision, ridicule and laughter, but I didn't hear that same tone and derision when you described the reasons for women wanting "surgeons, princes, bosses" etc. (the detective agency idea) even though they are equally childish, immature and worthy of laughter in our current state of civilization. You are perpetuating the prevalent double standard that women can want whatever they like and they deserve it because that's simply their nature, but men can't want what their nature dictates because then they are creeps and cringe redpillers. Which is it - innate nature good or innate nature bad?
As for the rest:
#1 - The pendulum has been artificially forced, but it's not like women have not taken full advantage of the situation, kicking men while they are down and gloating how much better they have it and how they deserve everything while men deserve their suffering in the process, rather than realizing that what is happening is wrong and should distance themselves from it, even if it is beneficial to them. At least its beneficial in the short term, the ever increasing right backlash (both in numbers and nudging further to the extreme) I suspect will leave us in a worse situation than we were previously before the "woke" advent. And it's almost certain that women will be the biggest losers of this whole experiment. That or if no backlash happens just the worsening economic situation, partly fueled by the bad social environment, will crash us all.
#2 - Excuse me what? Which men aren't content with their young wives exactly? An increasing number of men are virgins in their 30s, have never had a relationship, and can't get any female attention, let alone having a young wife. Women nowadays tend to gravitate towards a small number of men which make these men spoiled for choice, so they don't settle down and might change their partner for any tiny reason because they have a queue of women waiting on them. That's a tiny majority of men though. And are these men at fault here? Why are all these women rejecting regular men that would put them on a pedestal, and going after the unavailable men that only want to use them and toss them aside? Then complain that all men are "fuckbois and trash". LMAO. If we can paraphrase the "you are what you eat" line, one can argue that we are the sum of our decisions. So why are so many women today making "trash" decisions? What does that make them?
#3 - Are women met with disappointment... or are they just entitled and have immature expectations? If a man can't get the relationship he wants, the number 1 "advice" he will immediately receive is a combination of "change your standards" (the hot women you are aiming at aren't good women, at least not good for a serious relationships) and "stop complaining and get better" (you aren't on the level of the women you want). A woman changing their standard is considered "settling down" and "not getting what you deserve". And women changing her behavior for a man is pretty much unheard of as an advice because every woman things she's a catch already, and second if someone give such an advice they will be viewed as chauvinistic. So again, we expect men to mature and grow out of their wannabe Casanova childish ideas... but women's childish ideas about relationships and their potential partners are perfectly fine, they don't have to calibrate to reality, it's justified if they get bitter - men were just not good enough and they should do better.
"Things happening to kids" happen to all kids - boys and girls both. And it's not an excuse for anything, in the same way how if you are poor that's no excuse for stealing.
Despite my language (fashioned around how this conversion usually goes online and your video) - I actually don't care about "women" and "men". Our current social fabric problems aren't because of "women" and "men" but because individuals refuse to use the head on their shoulders, and dig both theirs, their fellow citizens, and society's grave in the process. But that's entirely on them. That's also why I have zero sympathy for these stories of women getting completely destroyed by the men they desire (getting cheated on, or drugged and raped at the club), or men destroying themselves by simping for obviously horrible women that use them (whether its e-thots or brutal divorces). Should have used that head of theirs when it was the right time. Though it should absolutely go without saying that society in general has been perpetuating and cultivating absolutely horrendous "values" and everything we are seeing playing out is to a large extend a result of that.
I don't see how women have been shafted. Women literally have an all they can eat buffet in front of them for the last several decades, and are miserable not for any other reason but because of their own bad individual decisions. Literally no other group in history has had it better, with more opportunities and ease of achieving a great fulfilling happy life than women have it today. Though I agree about men - they will continue to distance themselves from women and sink deeper into their hobbies, but the reality is that from this again women will be the ones suffering the most and crying about it and making it everyone else's problem, rather than realizing it's their fault in the first place and they are the only ones that can fix it by doing what they demand from men - growing up.
@@chiekokurokumo You missed my point. I'm not arguing with the book (with which I agree), I'm arguing with you. You read the book and your takeaway was the same as the women going down the path of the "devouring mother" - "that's just how female nature is, and if men want a serious relationship they should just step up or get left behind". I didn't hear an acknowledgement of how far male nature has already been curbed, and that maybe females have to do the same with their own nature for example. You even mentioned the cringe redpiller idea of wanting a young virgin for a wife, brought up by you with obvious derision, ridicule and laughter, but I didn't hear that same tone and derision when you described the reasons for women wanting "surgeons, princes, bosses" etc. (the detective agency idea) even though they are equally childish, immature and worthy of laughter in our current state of civilization. You are perpetuating the prevalent double standard that women can want whatever they like and they deserve it because that's simply their nature, but men can't want what their nature dictates because then they are creeps and cringe redpillers. Which is it - innate nature good or innate nature bad?
As for the rest:
#1 - The pendulum has been artificially forced, but it's not like women have not taken full advantage of the situation, kicking men while they are down and gloating how much better they have it and how they deserve everything while men deserve their suffering in the process, rather than realizing that what is happening is wrong and should distance themselves from it, even if it is beneficial to them. At least its beneficial in the short term, the ever increasing right backlash (both in numbers and nudging further to the extreme) I suspect will leave us in a worse situation than we were previously before the "woke" advent. And it's almost certain that women will be the biggest losers of this whole experiment. That or if no backlash happens just the worsening economic situation, partly fueled by the bad social environment, will crash us all.
#2 - Excuse me what? Which men aren't content with their young wives exactly? An increasing number of men are virgins in their 30s, have never had a relationship, and can't get any female attention, let alone having a young wife. Women nowadays tend to gravitate towards a small number of men which make these men spoiled for choice, so they don't settle down and might change their partner for any tiny reason because they have a queue of women waiting on them. That's a tiny majority of men though. And are these men at fault here? Why are all these women rejecting regular men that would put them on a pedestal, and going after the unavailable men that only want to use them and toss them aside? Then complain that all men are "fuckbois and trash". LMAO. If we can paraphrase the "you are what you eat" line, one can argue that we are the sum of our decisions. So why are so many women today making "trash" decisions? What does that make them?
#3 - Are women met with disappointment... or are they just entitled and have immature expectations? If a man can't get the relationship he wants, the number 1 "advice" he will immediately receive is a combination of "change your standards" (the hot women you are aiming at aren't good women, at least not good for a serious relationships) and "stop complaining and get better" (you aren't on the level of the women you want). A woman changing their standard is considered "settling down" and "not getting what you deserve". And women changing her behavior for a man is pretty much unheard of as an advice because every woman things she's a catch already, and second if someone give such an advice they will be viewed as chauvinistic. So again, we expect men to mature and grow out of their wannabe Casanova childish ideas... but women's childish ideas about relationships and their potential partners are perfectly fine, they don't have to calibrate to reality, it's justified if they get bitter - men were just not good enough and they should do better.
"Things happening to kids" happen to all kids - boys and girls both. And it's not an excuse for anything, in the same way how if you are poor that's no excuse for stealing.
Despite my language (fashioned around how this conversion usually goes online and your video) - I actually don't care about "women" and "men". Our current social fabric problems aren't because of "women" and "men" but because individuals refuse to use the head on their shoulders, and dig both theirs, their fellow citizens, and society's grave in the process. But that's entirely on them. That's also why I have zero sympathy for these stories of women getting completely destroyed by the men they desire (getting cheated on, or drugged and r@ ped at the club), or men destroying themselves by simping for obviously horrible women that use them (whether its e-thots or brutal divorces). Should have used that head of theirs when it was the right time. Though it should absolutely go without saying that society in general has been perpetuating and cultivating absolutely horrendous "values" and everything we are seeing playing out is to a large extend a result of that.
I don't see how women have been shafted. Women literally have an all they can eat buffet in front of them for the last several decades, and are miserable not for any other reason but because of their own bad individual decisions. Literally no other group in history has had it better, with more opportunities and ease of achieving a great fulfilling happy life than women have it today. Though I agree about men - they will continue to distance themselves from women and sink deeper into their hobbies, but the reality is that from this again women will be the ones suffering the most and crying about it and making it everyone else's problem, rather than realizing it's their fault in the first place and they are the only ones that can fix it by doing what they demand from men - growing up.
@@chiekokurokumo You missed my point. I'm not arguing with the book (with which I agree), I'm arguing with you. You read the book and your takeaway was the same as the women going down the path of the "devouring mother" - "that's just how female nature is, and if men want a serious relationship they should just step up or get left behind". I didn't hear an acknowledgement of how far male nature has already been curbed, and that maybe females have to do the same with their own nature for example. You even mentioned the cringe redpiller idea of wanting a young virgin for a wife, brought up by you with obvious derision, ridicule and laughter, but I didn't hear that same tone and derision when you described the reasons for women wanting "surgeons, princes, bosses" etc. (the detective agency idea) even though they are equally childish, immature and worthy of laughter in our current state of civilization. You are perpetuating the prevalent double standard that women can want whatever they like and they deserve it because that's simply their nature, but men can't want what their nature dictates because then they are creeps and cringe redpillers. Which is it - innate nature good or innate nature bad?
As for the rest:
#1 - The pendulum has been artificially forced, but it's not like women have not taken full advantage of the situation, kicking men while they are down and gloating how much better they have it and how they deserve everything while men deserve their suffering in the process, rather than realizing that what is happening is wrong and should distance themselves from it, even if it is beneficial to them. At least its beneficial in the short term, the ever increasing right backlash (both in numbers and nudging further to the extreme) I suspect will leave us in a worse situation than we were previously before the "woke" advent. And it's almost certain that women will be the biggest losers of this whole experiment. That or if no backlash happens just the worsening economic situation, partly fueled by the bad social environment, will crash us all.
#2 - Excuse me what? Which men aren't content with their young wives exactly? An increasing number of men are virgins in their 30s, have never had a relationship, and can't get any female attention, let alone having a young wife. Women nowadays tend to gravitate towards a small number of men which make these men spoiled for choice, so they don't settle down and might change their partner for any tiny reason because they have a queue of women waiting on them. That's a tiny majority of men though. And are these men at fault here? Why are all these women rejecting regular men that would put them on a pedestal, and going after the unavailable men that only want to use them and toss them aside? Then complain that all men are "fuckbois and trash". LMAO. If we can paraphrase the "you are what you eat" line, one can argue that we are the sum of our decisions. So why are so many women today making "trash" decisions? What does that make them?
#3 - Are women met with disappointment... or are they just entitled and have immature expectations? If a man can't get the relationship he wants, the number 1 "advice" he will immediately receive is a combination of "change your standards" (the hot women you are aiming at aren't good women, at least not good for a serious relationships) and "stop complaining and get better" (you aren't on the level of the women you want). A woman changing their standard is considered "settling down" and "not getting what you deserve". And women changing her behavior for a man is pretty much unheard of as an advice because every woman things she's a catch already, and second if someone give such an advice they will be viewed as chauvinistic. So again, we expect men to mature and grow out of their wannabe Casanova childish ideas... but women's childish ideas about relationships and their potential partners are perfectly fine, they don't have to calibrate to reality, it's justified if they get bitter - men were just not good enough and they should do better.
"Things happening to kids" happen to all kids - boys and girls both. And it's not an excuse for anything, in the same way how if you are poor that's no excuse for stealing.
Despite my language (fashioned around how this conversion usually goes online and your video) - I actually don't care about "women" and "men". Our current social fabric problems aren't because of "women" and "men" but because individuals refuse to use the head on their shoulders, and dig both theirs, their fellow citizens, and society's grave in the process. But that's entirely on them. That's also why I have zero sympathy for these stories of women getting completely destroyed by the men they desire (getting cheated on, or drugged and r@ ped at the club), or men destroying themselves by simping for obviously horrible women that use them (whether its e-thots or brutal divorces). Should have used that head of theirs when it was the right time. Though it should absolutely go without saying that society in general has been perpetuating and cultivating absolutely horrendous "values" and everything we are seeing playing out is to a large extend a result of that.
I don't see how women have been shafted. Women literally have an all they can eat buffet in front of them for the last several decades, and are miserable not for any other reason but because of their own bad individual decisions. Literally no other group in history has had it better, with more opportunities and ease of achieving a great fulfilling happy life than women have it today. Though I agree about men - they will continue to distance themselves from women and sink deeper into their hobbies, but the reality is that from this again women will be the ones suffering the most and crying about it and making it everyone else's problem, rather than realizing it's their fault in the first place and they are the only ones that can fix it by doing what they demand from men - growing up.
@@chiekokurokumo You missed my point. I'm not arguing with the book (with which I agree), I'm arguing with you. You read the book and your takeaway was the same as the women going down the path of the "devouring mother" - "that's just how female nature is, and if men want a serious relationship they should just step up or get left behind". I didn't hear an acknowledgement of how far male nature has already been curbed, and that maybe females have to do the same with their own nature for example. You even mentioned the cringe redpiller idea of wanting a young virgin for a wife, brought up by you with obvious derision, ridicule and laughter, but I didn't hear that same tone and derision when you described the reasons for women wanting "surgeons, princes, bosses" etc. (the detective agency idea) even though they are equally childish, immature and worthy of laughter in our current state of civilization. You are perpetuating the prevalent double standard that women can want whatever they like and they deserve it because that's simply their nature, but men can't want what their nature dictates because then they are creeps and cringe redpillers. Which is it - innate nature good or innate nature bad?
As for the rest:
#1 - The pendulum has been artificially forced, but it's not like women have not taken full advantage of the situation, kicking men while they are down and gloating how much better they have it and how they deserve everything while men deserve their suffering in the process, rather than realizing that what is happening is wrong and should distance themselves from it, even if it is beneficial to them. At least its beneficial in the short term, the ever increasing right backlash (both in numbers and nudging further to the extreme) I suspect will leave us in a worse situation than we were previously before the "woke" advent. And it's almost certain that women will be the biggest losers of this whole experiment. That or if no backlash happens just the worsening economic situation, partly fueled by the bad social environment, will crash us all.
#2 - Excuse me what? Which men aren't content with their young wives exactly? An increasing number of men are virgins in their 30s, have never had a relationship, and can't get any female attention, let alone having a young wife. Women nowadays tend to gravitate towards a small number of men which make these men spoiled for choice, so they don't settle down and might change their partner for any tiny reason because they have a queue of women waiting on them. That's a tiny majority of men though. And are these men at fault here? Why are all these women rejecting regular men that would put them on a pedestal, and going after the unavailable men that only want to use them and toss them aside? Then complain that all men are "fuckbois and trash". LMAO. If we can paraphrase the "you are what you eat" line, one can argue that we are the sum of our decisions. So why are so many women today making "trash" decisions? What does that make them?
#3 - Are women met with disappointment... or are they just entitled and have immature expectations? If a man can't get the relationship he wants, the number 1 "advice" he will immediately receive is a combination of "change your standards" (the hot women you are aiming at aren't good women, at least not good for a serious relationships) and "stop complaining and get better" (you aren't on the level of the women you want). A woman changing their standard is considered "settling down" and "not getting what you deserve". And women changing her behavior for a man is pretty much unheard of as an advice because every woman things she's a catch already, and second if someone give such an advice they will be viewed as chauvinistic. So again, we expect men to mature and grow out of their wannabe Casanova childish ideas... but women's childish ideas about relationships and their potential partners are perfectly fine, they don't have to calibrate to reality, it's justified if they get bitter - men were just not good enough and they should do better.
"Things happening to kids" happen to all kids - boys and girls both. And it's not an excuse for anything, in the same way how if you are poor that's no excuse for stealing.
Despite my language (fashioned around how this conversion usually goes online and your video) - I actually don't care about "women" and "men". Our current social fabric problems aren't because of "women" and "men" but because individuals refuse to use the head on their shoulders, and dig both theirs, their fellow citizens, and society's grave in the process. But that's entirely on them. That's also why I have zero sympathy for these stories of women getting completely destroyed by the men they desire (getting cheated on, or dru gged and r@ ped at the club), or men destroying themselves by simping for obviously horrible women that use them (whether its eth0ts or brutal divorces). Should have used that head of theirs when it was the right time. Though it should absolutely go without saying that society in general has been perpetuating and cultivating absolutely horrendous "values" and everything we are seeing playing out is to a large extend a result of that.
I don't see how women have been shafted. Women literally have an all they can eat buffet in front of them for the last several decades, and are miserable not for any other reason but because of their own bad individual decisions. Literally no other group in history has had it better, with more opportunities and ease of achieving a great fulfilling happy life than women have it today. Though I agree about men - they will continue to distance themselves from women and sink deeper into their hobbies, but the reality is that from this again women will be the ones suffering the most and crying about it and making it everyone else's problem, rather than realizing it's their fault in the first place and they are the only ones that can fix it by doing what they demand from men - growing up.
very interesting
Glad you think so!
Nice 😂
In my humble opinion, as a female who has been both with and without sex, I think it is just a distraction, and a very ugly vice that causes people a lot of pain. Unless you're a committed loving relationship and especially if you intend to have kids, it's a necessary evil. Sex is a biological urge to be purged- satiated in most basic means and then forgotten. Society delves way too much into sex and the vice of gratification. It's not that deep, and it's not a "good" thing.
I've not yet stepped across that threshold, and I've not fully regretted that. It sounds like something people enjoy, but it's also very complicated and messes with people.
Having a female partner who thinks that sex is a "necessary evil" is a nightmare for any healthy man.
I agree that overindulgence is also unhealthy. But just imagine being a man and having this need to be accepted on an intimate level by a woman and knowing that your partner views that need as something to be "purged".
That's not a recipe for a healthy and functional marriage.
That's like saying that the female need for attention or romance is not that deep or necessary. Its an extremely naive perspective to have.