Nissan Truck Crank NO-START when COLD - Part 1
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2021
- This is a fun one :)
2009 Nissan Titan V8, 130k miles.
Customer says that after a limp-home incident and replacing the battery, he parked the truck and it would refuse to start the next morning.
Let's take the logical diagnostic approach and see where it leads...
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Enjoy!
Ivan 
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I'm always astonished by your ability to solve such complex electronic issues and dive into these diagrams. Your customers must be thankful.
Yep I’d be lost my existent of electrical is plug it in or unplug it lol
Yes they are very thankful to avoid the parts cannon :)
Have a u1000 no start on my 2010 nissan titan se 5.6 need help
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics any help.to.my issue u1000
Com no start
Great troubleshooting, and that is why I come here... You get stuff you don't see every day, love your content !
Thank you for the kind words, Carl! Glad you are enjoying the vids :)
Great work showing your thought process on circuits you're going to test!
Down goes TITAN!!! Down goes TITAN!!!
Winner and still champion...Ivan the Great!!!
no tach just started to watch. got that tip from you and SMA
I'm surprised Pico haven't sent you an 8 channel scope after all the years you have advocated & used their kit.
Perhaps he needs to throw a few hints... "using the Pico... not a sponsor..."
I’m sure Ivan has “sold” enough scope kits for them to make it more than worth their while.....
As always..thank you so much for the valuable training session. God bless you my friend.
Ivan, the Wave Pattern Master, strikes again! No sick car is safe from him...on or off the road! 😎
This has got to be one of the most frustrating problems, and in severe cold weather. Yikes. Great job.
Nice one, thoroughly diagnosed and a fix produced ..impressive Ivan and I understood everything!
Finally we got some Nissan Titan video. Thanks Ivan!
Amazing that this guy always works to find exact problem & doesn't guess. Brilliant mind
Wow that was a cool one Ivan thanks for posting!
Bernie Thompson method: You too will become more successful in your bays! Great diag bro! Another tip to store in the back of my mind and that scope capture was flawless!
I had this same issue on the same year of truck same make. I scoped it and checked relays and grounds since the customer was trying to fix it on his own. I thought it was the cam and crank sensor so i replaced both but they were aftermarket parts though. Didnt fix it. Was kinda weird was the u1000 code for can comm. If i erased codes the truck would start. Customer didnt have money to invest in OE sensors. I found a tip on ALLDATA where a tech removed the ECM and put it in the freezer to recreate the problem and narrowed it down to the ECM. Hard to make that call though. Cant wait for part 2. Thanks Ivan.
I’m so tired of seeing cold air intakes in the engine bay. It defeats the purpose people it’s called cold air intake for a reason it may look cool but it’s not doing anything for your engine it’s just sucking hot air back into the engine. Cold air intakes and KNN air filters god stop just stop
Not to mention, using a $200 piece of garbage to defeat what took many thousands to engineer.
@@CedroCron Man you got that right. I despise K&N filters too. Used one in my trike, and after a thousand miles I found dust in the intake tract! One thing about the MAF sensor and K&N's is that if the user oils them too much, the oil does screw up the sensor.
Unless you connect them to an outside air source ..
@@CedroCron I agree. Spot-on.
I love keeping things OEM unless there is a good reason to change something.
Ivan.rhe bloodhound of sniffing out all of your automotive woes.😎👍
Interesting indeed! Great vid, Ivan. I sure do miss the days when Japanese engineers PURPOSELY engineered parts so they COULD NOT be mixed up, or installed wrong under any circumstances! Those days are long gone, apparently. Imagine an identical, yet different sensor with the same number for different applications! This goes against everything those old time Japanese engineers stood for. I've come to expect this sort of thing from GM or FoMoCo, but it's looking like no brands are immune from the craziness today. All of it makes our jobs twice as difficult!
Oh, I wanted to tell you, in April I'll be heading to FL for paramotor trike training! WOOHOO! Not at Aviator, but with PPG Gorilla, a little southwest of Aviator. He knocked $300 off the price for bringing my own equipment. SUPER stoked!! My friend Chris Fennimore (you might have seen him in the comments here and there on auto repair and paramotor vids) will be at Aviator getting trained at the same time, only his class is about a week longer than mine. We 're going to do a cross country flight over there to visit him, weather and time permitting. Can't wait!! :) :) :)
Nice work Ivan. Thanks!
Great job Ivan. You're absolutely right, how can you diag this without a scope. Love your detailed breakdown of circuits, well done.
Thanks for the vid Ivan. Very indepth diagnosis and it looks like the scope for the win again. So sorry this time it's parts required ;-(
That was another awesome diagnosis, Nissan dealer would be selling you a new truck probably. Looking forward to the follow up to see if it solves it. You make it look so easy with your knowledge and tools 😁
The Nissan dealer, or just about any dealer, would try to sell you a new vehicle if the air filter was dirty.
@@adotintheshark4848 Thanks for the insult
love this channel
The use of 'No-lead' solder is the cause of many of these types of faults. The solder points will crack and/or separate from the pads or traces on the PCB. I had this problem with the clock in my Toyota Camry. I pulled the clock from the dash, took it apart and soldered all the attachment points that I could get to with 60/40 rosin core solder. It worked and has continued to work for many years.
Yes, no-lead solder has much lower ductility than regular old fashioned solder. IOW, it has much less”flex” (more brittle) and is more prone to cracking over time. Best practice is to remove ALL the old no-lead stuff and reflow with the good stuff as you did....
Great find Ivan, the CAM sensor signal is inverted at first then it changes direction, personally I've seen many Nissan CMP sensor's signal inverted with no issues or fault codes. Also I've seen Nissan CMP sensors start inverted then change direction with no issues or codes.
Interesting case study! Bless your soul for working in that cold lol 👍
This was a fun one Thank You Ivan !
Great video, like the bonus tips!
I can just imagine how many parts the dealer would throw at this issue.
AND charge the customer $$$$$$
Thanks for the insult. my experience is that not only cars from other dealers end up in my Bay. But also cars from independence end up in my Bay. Thanks for the insult
Ivan, nice work on trouble shooting those issues. Surprisingly the truck started after clearing codes!
That kind of threw me off...coincidence?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics mmm, part of me says yes, but i don't think so. Maybe I'll see part 2 to see. Lol
The interactive schematic is really nice.
Excellent diagnosis...!
Intermittent problems are so much fun. It reminds me of when a car I was working on had a failing crank sensor. The only time the car would not start was during a hot soak period. Like when you would stop for gas and only have the engine off for 5 minutes or so. The under hood temperature would go up causing resistance in the sensor to go haywire or maybe even completely open circuit. Changing the crank sensor fixed it.
was it a gm 90 degree or 60 degree v6? (3800/3100)
Another great case study. Saturday evening. Time for a good cigar and bourbon. Cheers my friend.
Hi Bill! Did you fire up the pressure transducer yet?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Not yet but I have 2015 chevy camaro with a compression problem to look at this week. Will let you know.
That Kill&Neutralize air intake is certainly good for an extra 50HP
Said no one ever .
Actually my home made cold air ( 97 Jeep Grand. 4.0 ) really woke my engine up. My 99 IT DID NOTHING AT ALL ?
i seen the name "spectre" on it, so knockoff which is far worse.
Good one! Good information to have too.
Интересная интрига!
На CMP может прилипнуть металлическая стружка. Дает похожий эффект - пропуск импульса.
Pico, not a sponsor. But should be. Amazing find
no scope , no chance. great video
Looks like the parts cannon is loaded..at least you found the problem. I would've bet on the ECM, as microprocessors can be cold-sensitive.
Great stuff. Bernie Thompson will scope your tire valves. ATS kit comes with adapters for it
WOW lol
Exellent passionate tech
Ivan, AWESOME video/information as always so which CAM sensor will be changing there is 3 of them.
Nice. Video. Thanks 👍👍
Nice find Ivan . Pays not to jump from your basic tests first . Could have worked out expensive 👍👍👍
Nice work
Good work Ivan GT n.c.
Tengo una nissan titan 2007 solo la puedo usar en el verano en le invierno cuando comienza el frío no enciende.
Creo que este video me ayudará mucho, gracias amigo 👍
You're very good at this stuff, personally I'd want to know if it's a marginal connection " aka faulty connection " you know I'm thinking green crusty at a connection somewhere
Thank you so much
Ivan, I’m curious, I see you using the Launch scan tool a lot and the Snap On Verus a lot. What criteria determines which one you choose to use? I see Eric O likes his Autel. Right now I’m using an Autel MD906bt but am consider launch unit like your using in this video?
Ivan! You are awesome! I wish I could ship my parts cannon'd Titan to you or fly you out to eastern Washington State.
One could possibly have gotten in the ball park without a scope by doing your old fashioned way of first trying to determine if the problem was spark or fuel by spraying some carb cleaner into the intake then trying to start it. Some vehicles (not sure if it's this one) will fall back to a default strategy if either the crankshaft or camshaft sensors are unplugged (but not both) so that could be one's next test (also unplugging a MAF can be instructive). Much tougher on an intermittent for sure.
When a module is in doubt reflowing it in an oven could eliminate the possibility of a bad solder joint or "tin solder hair."
In most cases, no comm codes or U codes are indicative that the other modules are not receiving the correct information within the data from the ECM, not that communication is completely gone from the ECM. It is a thing that can send you down the wrong path when trying to diagnose while using non-proprietary scan tools.
Good job. What scanner are you useing?
Great find! Too bad you couldn't see CMP signal during the crank NS. You were on to something when the INJ pulsed AFTER the cranking but not during. Yet with so much going on with goofy scan data, U codes, and then losing data etc, I kinda dismissed it to.
Was the cam sensor breaking down due to temperature variations? I wonder if it dropped out after engine warmed up to temp?
thank you for the info
Great diag Ivan. Without a scope you would need a "parts cannon" the size of the 16" guns on the USS New Jersey. Even with a cannon this size, how would you know all the parts replaced were good?
This Titan experience "make me wonder". Do the engineers at Nissan really know how their "creations" work?
To your point. How tough can it be for the ECM to punch out a DTC when it has received a crank position pulse and no cam position pulse? You know the ECM saw it.
It keep the fuel injector from pulsing.
It nothing else the ECM the could have been programmed to capture "missing cam position count". Similar to a spark misfire count (Mode 6 data).
It looked to me like as soon as you took pressure off of the key the engine still had enough rotation so that the injectors were able to fire before the engine quit turning. Because you were not starting the engine at that time the one cylinder that fired managed to have enough force to continue the engine rotation and actually continued running operation. Although you still may have a bad cam sensor the ignition system still had the system locked out until you took presdure off of the key and it was able to start like that for quite a few cycles until it got out of cam timing from the bad sensor every once in a while. That system has quite a few flaws in it. I have a 2006 Titan, why does the engine start having a ticking noise that turns into a knock? Do you know why the engine finally fails with these symptoms? It actually turned into a heavy knock before the engine finally quit altogether. I have not done anything with the engine yet so I don't know what happened yet. Have you ever run across this problem before? The engine just has 113K on it, it should have lasted longer than that. I brought the truck in before the 75K warranty expired for the same noise but all they could tell me is they thought it may be an exhaust leak. I think they knew what it was and just wanted me to continue driving it so that the warranty would pass.
What scanner software are you using? Thanks.
..i used to deliver these engines when i was a Truckdriver, dedicated route from Decherd TN to Canton Mississippi to the Nissan Plant..well, Both Ends were Plants, just One Only Made the Engines..
I'm just curious it seemed like there was a release of the key at the last second during the cranking and at that point in time is when the vehicle actually started was that correct
Could intermittent cam sensor function result from old engine oil or improper viscosity engine oil? Repeated cranking attempts would also lead to decreased viscosity (faster sensor response time).
Hey Ivan something I noticed I don’t think you didn’t noticed. At the very beginning the tach didn’t work during cranking. When you cranked it again and it started you could see the tach move right away. So does that mean the cam signals the tach?
Hi
I have Nissan frontier 2014 with trouble,some time when stop it (turn key off) at hot when restart directly in rang around 5 min start normally but after 5 min the car crunk no start for around 45min than start normally.
Note
When i put cold water behind engine at passenger side start normally
I have changed crunk sensor 3time
Camsensor both side
Cooling sensor
Fuel pump
Fuel filter
Sec. Trouble cooling fan not work .i make external relay but working only high speed.
So any can help what do.and if any some problem before and he get solution.thanks
I think Keith is right never trust your tools If something looks off it probably is.
That single problem with CMPCKP is what killed Nissan in the US. It was very common the overseas used car market rejected all Nissan, and that is why the incresed sales number in New Nissan did not show any increase in residual value
it couldnt just start on crank sensor ? if u unplugged cam sensor ? take long crank time ? then set code for cam sensor ?
Hey Ivan,
Could you maybe test if the Nissan Computer has a default strategy if the Cam sensor(s) is/are unplugged to see if it will start in that case?
As ScannerDanner has proved in some of his videos, **SOME** ECM's are capable of starting the engine with just either the Crank OR Cam sensor inputs available and the other not working.
My Recollection is that what some of these ECM's do is they Batch fire the injectors / plugs during the crank in various combinations, and when the engine does kick off and fire, the ECU is able to "Guess" where the engine rotation is, and the engine will run. Often in such case the crank is extended (ie several seconds while the ECM guesses)
So i have to wonder if you deliberately set a Camshaft sensor fault by unplugging the offending sensor, if the the Donk will then run.
Maybe you could test that for us?
I love the way you diagnose Ivan. I am starting a diag buisness after 5 yrs of watching , buying tools etc.
Can you help me decide which to use, mitchellpro or aldata? It will be a slow start and the program is not cheap. Any suggestions?
I have been buying single car subs so far. Thank you for sharing your videos and insight to all you guys out there doing this! Ps, 1st parts give me something to look forward to, the 2nd and 3rd parts! And the bonus footage is always priceless.
I've been doing the same thing although I find their diy sites to be lacking much of the information. Neither has rewrites on the diy sites. Some autoparts stores will give you access to data with a commercial account, others might offer a discount on sub services.
@@bradfaught1695 thank you. I am pulling the trigger and going to go with a full program, either mitchell or aldata.. Probably will go with aldata.. 175 a month.
Having used both alldata and prodemand, I prefer prodemand as it seems to have more info. That said, it is definitely clunkier to use. Our shop also has the version of identifix that includes service manuals, TSBs, sometimes different wiring diagrams than Mitchell. Service information is almost like scan tools - they can compliment each other and no single one has everything. The feature of identifix where other techs can post their diag procedure and you can see common failures is also a big time saver very often. Of course it must be used properly - as in you still have to do your own independent testing and verification - but it's great to point you in the right direction. They also have a similar estimating guide called MOTOR. They include Chilton's as well, but I consider that more of a DIYer's guide. Pointing this stuff out because I wasn't originally aware they had actual SI. If I could only have one, I would consider picking identifix over Prodemand even though I am a bit less familiar with it. It seems to offer more and be easier to use. I will point out one downside is that it is linked to IP address, so you're limited on devices. In the nature of full disclosure, I will also say it has been about 4 years since I used alldata regularly. Good luck on your journey!
@@ClaytheBMXer thank you very much for your input.. I have not concidered identifix, it is a pre set on my autel so i will research it now.. Thanks again !
@@raychad5058 No problem! Love my MS906BT by the way. It's slower than snap on and the graphing isn't as good, but I think it covers more for like a third of the cost. If cost wasn't a factor, I'd have every available scan tool and every available service information service, haha.
Thank u sir👍
I had a 2014 frontier with bad cam sensor. I bought oem off of fleabay took ten mi n uses to change ran beautiful after that until i got the the cross contamination that took out the trans.
What scanner are you using that you using your phone to access
😃¹💥👌🤛 thanks Man , good diagnostic .👍
Thanks Tony!
Experience would have you do a cam and crank sensor test for the symptoms this vehicle was displaying IE the crank, no start and (not sure if you picked it up) extended crank time when the engine was firing up. Great diag, Ivan, you would have been kicking yourself if you called the ECM as the problem.
We'll "circle back" to the ECM...just like Jen Psiaki haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yeh I know there is a part 2 coming, my point still stands though, it is usually the thing you don't check that gets you into trouble 👍
just had a 2007 nissan maxima today long crank time and a p0340 for bank 1 cam sensor. i scoped bank 2 signal nice square wave bank 1 had flat line battery voltage. new sensor fixed the problem
What scan tool is that? Looks like the thinkdiag? Been looking at that. Do you like it?
Launch Diagun IV. It kicks ass!
Im pretty sure the position sensors also have a 5v supply and not 12v as you stated in the video. That would give really different signals when starting, ignition on or engine running.
Check out the wiring diagram and scope captures. On this truck they are 12V.
What was with the 4WD DTC codes?
😎 video. I have always enjoyed them of recent since I subscribed
Do you have any vids on transmission diagnostics of solenoids? Specifically p0744 on a RE4F04B transmission?
For solenoids I like to manually energize them and listen for a solid "click". Could also be a rationality code, which could point to internal trans problems.
I still haven't figured out where, exactly, he acquired the mechanical aspects of an electronically controlled engine. So much for having the wrong points gap!
That car sounds like an old alarm clock... and honestly, I prefer that to the usual "bong".
So what ended up being the problem because my xterra does the same thing in the cold but if you jump start it it’ll start fine
I'm just thinking out loud...it was suspected that the vehicle started because all of the codes were cleared.
Prior to clearing the codes you ran the fuel pump i.e. primed the system. I also noticed what appeared to be no rpm while cranking, but then started reading after the engine was running. Maybe that goes back to the cam position sensor issue?
I think I'd want to try to catch it in the act again to try to rule out all of these "coincidences".
many things rely upon cam signal to actuate injection/ignition with correct timing. when in crank mode, many things are ignored for code setting and possibly even into short run time.
yeehaw!
I would have cleaned that sensor first because there was no tach at the first start. Could have been frozen damp on the sensor or such.
Now that was an odd one, even you were thinking about the engine confuser being dodgy, but that was just a passing verbal thought.
That vehicle has far too many sensors, they are acting like bmw with over complex systems.
Imagine if there was a 20 channel version of your oscilliscope, you would be monitoring everything :-D.
Now now calm down ivan ;-D
My 2006 Altima had a bad camshaft sensor with no codes. I just guessed that was the problem from reading comments on videos.
It's always REWARDING DOING SOME HOMEWORK, NICE FIX.
I have a 09 Nissan Titan it cranks but won't start I sprayed with starting fluid it'll start and run and I can go somewhere I come back turn it off and it'll start back up and if I let it sit all night it won't start I got to spray it with starting fluid again
So...did you replace the crankshaft sensor?
I think the owner is ?
Just went though this with a 2008 Titan. You could jump it when it was cold and it would start and restart the rest of the day. Next cold morning no start without a jump. Ran through all the spark, fuel, injector tests and no injectors pulse. After checking grounds and fuse box related stuff I finally threw the ecu in the house for the night. Next two days it start right up with a low charged battery. Sent the ecu off and had it repaired for $100. Been fine since.
Yup that seems to be a common issue on these trucks when they get 10 years old or so. Part 2 will be more revealing :)
Hey Jeremy, I'm the owner of this Titan, and looking into an ECM repair or replacement. What company did you use for the repair?
@@flintlock50 SIA Electronics. I went through their site on ebay since it was a bit cheaper than their website. Seemed to be a pretty common thing with nissans. I had a heck of a time coming up with the answer since I've drilled it into my head it's "never the ecu".
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics It's funny you would do this video now. Three months ago when I got this truck with this issue I was for sure going to go in the archives of Pine Hollow or South Main and have the answer to this problem since its all over the nissan forums but no real answers. Most guys head down the IPDM route or get a huge battery. Oh, and my launch also wouldn't read anything during cranking which at the time had me scratching my head.
@@jeremywilliams5111 Thanks, I just checked and SIA has it for $90 plus shipping right now. Their website lists it at $200, so you saved me some coin! I have the identical problem, truck will start right away if I jump it, even with a fresh battery. I was going to replace the IPDM, glad I called Ivan @ PineHollow first.
Since there are 3 cam sensors, how you know which one to replace?
The one with the injector pulse.
crazy all the Nissan vids and no frontier loll
I see if has a Katie and Natalie intake system. Guaranteed for an extra 10 HP.
-10hp maybe
Karen and Nancy and only the sticker gives you the extra HPs🤣🤣🤣
@@bigdaddymak1439 Damn. Beat me to it!
Do those two suck?
i seen the name "spectre" on it, so knockoff which is far worse.
Is it always winter there
if you ever make another trip south going thru Alabama let me know have a ford that sometimes will not shut off
seeing the single injector pulse. it looks very similar to a motorcycle spark wen the kill switch circuit is engaged
Interesting...
Yes dealing with one now lol. Have cheated with you in email lol. Except i do actually loose ecm coms . Its very frustrating lol.
I will never understand manufacturers using dummy gauges for oil pressure. They wasted all the time to put a gauge and a light in there and then made the sending unit a switch. That is also a heck of a CAN delay for an 09
Does that car have tack