What I LOVE about the scene with the royal family is the fact that the *actual* face-off was King Fritz's will from the past vs Eren Jaeger's will from the future
The VAs are absolutely spectacular. Say what you will about the english version, the japanese blows everything out of the water. My favorite moments from a VA pov: Erens mother yelling at them to run in despair in the first episode. Eren losing his mind when Hannes is killed. Grishas despair after Eren made him kill the family.
12:38 This is the most surprising scene in AOT for me. In the manga chapter 1, Grisha was not looking at kid Eren but looking at the door, which might mean Isayama had already built the whole plot from the very beginning. In the anime episode 1, however, it was not shown because the camera zoomed in on the key. This foreshadowing was paid off in the manga chapter 121, literally 10 years later.
Yup, I actually went back to confirm, after I realized it wasn't shown in episode 1 and you most definitely see Grisha just looking anywhere but at Eren or any other person in the room. Which isn't odd upon first reading, but with the context of the last few episodes it's undeniably a seed sown to link and close the story loop. Even Eren's dream at the start has (multiple) callbacks. One major callback, that everyone always cites, but also a minor callback: To the moment when Eren experiences Grisha's memories. And he repeats "I was dreaming", but then adds "no, not dreaming, it was a memory". And that's a BIG reveal in combination with the very first chapter/episode. Also slightly invalidating of some other story aspects, but at least it makes the story coherent.
@@theoriginalfluff5317 He wrote it from the end to the beginning, so the beginning of the show is when the viewers knew the least amount while Isayama knew everything.
Discussion timestamps: 18:35 Autosave is very Elegant 19:50 Initial thoughts 21:41 A whole new perspective 23:55 The plot twist 25:52 Grisha being a father 27:55 Eren’s looks 29:26 Eren’s confidence 30:40 Grisha’s memories 32:31 The basement scene 36:38 Ymir in the intro 38:02 Ilse’s Titan 40:52 Eren’s uno reverse 42:45 “I am who I’ve always been” 44:58 “Rather than letting someone steal my freedom- I’ll steal theirs first” 45:55 “A convenient little brother” 47:25 Kid Eren’s argument 49:31 Eren in the memories 51:23 Influencing memories rules 53:56 Waiting music 54:36 The scene from EP1 57:47 Grisha and the scouts 1:00:47 What is Grisha seeing? 1:01:45 Curating the future memories 1:03:09 The underground chapel scene 1:04:20 Eren letting it happen 1:05:51 Eren controlling Grisha 1:07:46 The moment of decision 1:10:30 Atonement of the Ignorant 1:14:30 The King’s inaction 1:16:49 Grisha glances back 1:18:36 The big moment 1:20:52 The Attack Titan 1:24:11 When did it begin? 1:27:33 Grisha’s resolve 1:28:42 Eren’s words to Grisha 1:30:56 When does Grisha realise 1:33:40 What did Eren show him 1:36:04 Grisha seeing Zeke 1:39:09 “Please, Stop Eren” 1:41:11 How is Eren doing this 1:47:11 Eren influencing without paths 1:49:18 Ben’s AOT What-if? 1:53:52 finishing thoughts 1:54:40 What does Eren want? This discussion was SO GOOD! 15:57 rip Ben’s notes 😜
What are daddy issues? Just traumatize your father back. Jokes aside, though. “Even in death. Even after death. Weren't you the one who started this story?” This has never failed to give me chills.
@@adamisajoker , we can't know that for certain. Though not sure if Eren influenced Kruger directly. Maybe the latter just used the same words unconsciously, based on future memories, just like he mentioned Mikasa and Armin. Btw, Eren was able to directly influence Grisha only thanks to the fact Zeke brought him into the memories .
@@adamisajoker In my opinion, Eren was mirroring Kruger's words. But we still haven't seen the end of how Eren has exactly influenced the past so we can't know for certain.
@@adamisajoker Just my opinion, but it seems implied to me that Eren's will has manipulated the Attack Titan users throughout history. Kind of a reverse Founder Titan situation where the past king influences future users. Which given their opposition to each other, that mirroring makes sense to me. So I think Kruger was influenced by our Eren.
@@maizeman90 Yes. The horror on Grisha's face is that he recognized that speech almost word for word from his pep talk with Kruger and he realizes that Eren was talking through Kruger, hence the Armin and Mikasa line drop.
Someone NEEDS to give Hiroshi Tsuchida, Grisha's VA, an award. He owns absolutely every episode he's in. That Day, Sole Salvation, and now Memories of the Future. Absolutely heartbreaking performances.
@Silk Sonic I dont think so, it's a father meeting his son he thought would never see again and carrying massive guilt over his mistakes. "If only we spent more time together" is the realization of what could have been if only Grisha hadn't made his mistakes.
@Silk Sonic The guy was literally goaded by his future son to kill the Reiss Family against his own will, and saw glimpses of the stuff Eren would do. Plus he had a mental breakdown, and he regretting so much about how he treated Zeke. Pile everything together, it's understandable that he'd break down
@silksonic3927 Don't think so, if he had screamed his lungs out until his throat teared apart it would still not be overdone. The word insanity to describe what Grisha felt in this moment is an understatement.
Eren whispered in Isayama's ear and told him to write this story On a serious note, it's really scary how Grisha, someone who was so anti-Marley and pro-Eldia, saw one glimpse of Eren's plan and was like, "Zeke. You have to stop him." Despite Grisha's hate for Marley and how far he was willing to go, even HE thought his plan was too far. He was genuinely horrified. Whatever Eren's plan is, Grisha does not want it to happen. Speaking of, Zeke and Grisha finally getting to work out their issues and hug each other in a moment of pure love is really heartwarming. Grisha understood his mistakes when raising Zeke before. Instead of only treating him as a tool, he treats him as his son. Zeke is finally able to take his first step towards closure after years of trauma. Even if they had their differences, Grisha and Zeke can at least agree with one thing: Stopping Eren. I think Eren does care for his older brother. The same way that Zeke cares about Eren and wanted to show him the light of his plan, Eren cares about Zeke but won't stop moving forward to reach his.
Grisha didn't care about Marley, he told Zeke to stop Eren while thinking about the other nations that even Marley held hostage, but also hated Eldians just didn't get involved.
Although it seems Grisha eventually changed his mind since he had no qualms about giving Eren the Attack Titan. Maybe after Carla's death he was like, fuck it, burn them all.
@@BhBc8f8 it was definitely Carla's death that made him give titan to Eren. And scary part is, Grisha when asking Zeke, already knew something would happen that would make him give titan to Eren. He knew Mikasa and Eren would survive, so he worried about them when riding back home on kart. He likely already knew Carla died when going back, and knew that would lead to him giving Eren a titan
Some of the best visual story-telling is seen in this episode to take note of. - Grisha on his hands and knees, praying to Frieda (God). - An angel (Zeke) on one shoulder, and a devil (Eren) on the other, both behind Grisha (as if to represent them literally standing in the past). - And just as Grisha explains the Attack Titan's powers to see into its future inheritor's memories, Eren steps in front of Grisha, as if to step into the future itself. - Cutting beautifully to Eren standing in the front, Grisha in the middle, and Zeke in the back (perfectly showing Eren stepping out of the past where Zeke is and into the future) Just phenomenal staging and visual story-telling all around.
Zeke's biggest miscalculation was thinking that Eren needed to see Grisha's memories in order to have his mind changed. Eren inherited Grisha's memories and for all Zeke knows has already seen every waking moment of Grisha's life. I love the way reshowing events from a different person's perspective makes such a massive difference to the story. I mentioned it back during one of the earlier Season4 videos using the flashback of Marcel sacrificing himself to save Reiner. It gets shown 3 different times during season 2, a 4th time in S4E3, and then again last episode during S4E19. Each time more of the scene is shown to us that adds more perspective. First it was just Reiner and Marcel, then we see Bertholdt was also there, then we see Annie was also there, then we see that the reason everyone reacted so slowly was the shocking reveal Marcel told Reiner moments earlier. The Attack Titan power of future memories makes this even more impactful when you consider different characters quoting the exact same lines to each other during pivotal moments of the story: In S1E9 Eren remembers Grisha saying "to protect Mikasa and Armin you must master this power", which we hear again when Eren Kruger says it to Grisha in S3E22. In the 2nd last episode of the Trost arc in season 1 when Armin finally manages to snap Eren out of his stupor he says something to the effect of "Because I was born into this world" or "This world is my birthright", which Carla says to Keith after he goes off at her for being ordinary in the S3E11 flashback, and we heard it again last episode when Eren told Zeke he wouldnt sterilize all the Eldians, because the world was his birthright. Another great part of the new context of specific events is realizing how some characters would have interpreted specific lines that we had no way of considering before. When Grisha asks kid Eren why he wants to go outside the walls he mentions that its more horrible than Eren could even imagine. During S1E1 the audience could only assume he meant the Titans, but he really meant the oppression of the Eldians by Marley. Young Eren responds with the phrase about the lives of those who came before us being meaningless if we dont fight on in their place, which means something very different to Grisha considering what happened to Dina, Grice and Kruger. For the specifics of how the future memories power works; remember back to S3E6 when Historia and Rob Riece touched Eren's back and he witnessed Grisha giving the injection to Eren and then being eaten by Eren FROM GRISHA's PERSPECTIVE. This is important. Throughout this episode you can notice Grisha is seeing and feeling things he should not be able to. Each time Grisha is able to see Zeke you might notice that Eren is standing in a spot in the room where he has direct line of sight of both Grisha and Zeke. This is important. All of the Titan-Shifters are able to see memories from the former holders of their titans, however the Attack Titan is able to send memories backwards to the previous holders as well. This on its own doesnt give Eren the power to mastermind this entire thing, but once Zeke had brought Eren into Grisha's memories and was able to see Zeke and witness those memories from outside Grisha's perspective, Eren had now seen those events firsthand, which he could then send back to Grisha. This means that in that moment, Grisha was experiencing those events in real time, both from his own perspective, and also from Eren's perspective, the overlap causing him to see Zeke there in real time in the past when it originally happened. This is why each time he was seeing someone he had a look of horror on his face, because he was being given a message from the future in real time of that moment happening with additional context of what Eren and Zeke were doing when they watched it years later. (Also the mind-fuck that experiencing that would be is insane. Imagine in any single moment you experience that same moment in real time from another person's perspective as well as from your own simultaneously.) A hint to this that many people overlook is back in S3E22 when Grisha is talking to Kruger. Grisha says "wont I forget all of this once you turn me into a titan" to which Kruger says something to the effect of 'You may not be the only person who gets to see these memories', which is a reference to Eren witnessing it as a memory, and getting the exact phrasing of what Kruger said to Grisha to motivate him to continue with the plan. "Even if you die, even after you die" "You are the one who started this story" "To save Mikasa and Armin" All of these things Eren learns about in S3 and is then able to incept them into Kruger's mind in that moment. Who's memories were they? Well they were Eren's memories of that exact event. The reason Eren can do all of this and seemingly none of the other Attack Titan holders have been able to do this is because Eren is the first one to have both Founding and Attack titans, and get access to The Paths directly. The Attack Titan can see past memories just like all the other Titan-Shifters, but being able to see forward and backward isn't enough on its own. Eren can do it because he has full access to all of the memories of the previous holders, and specifically not from their own perspective. He witnesses the events of Grisha's memories for himself, so sending those memories back is possible, because they are his own memories. He isnt just witnessing Grisha's memories anymore, Future Eren is experiencing those events of Grisha's past, which allows him to incept them into Grisha for the purpose of triggering Grisha to motivate him. In some cases Eren doesn't even experience those memories for the purpose of giving them to Grisha. Often times Future Eren is experiencing them so he can send them to Grisha or Kruger, so that they can send them to Child Eren or Teen Eren from the past. Its only after Future Eren gets to The Paths that he is able to do the full circle and send the memories indirectly back to his past self. Last thought: The type of "time travel" in AoT is the philosophical theory of Determinism. The TLDR version of it is that there is only a single timeline, and if someone was to go back in time or influence the past in some way, that those things had always happened and the timeline wasnt changed by them, because they had always happened. (Things like OVA Lost Girls #3 is about an entirely separate parallel universe, where the events play out differently.) Eren and Zeke were traveling through time and witnessing those events in real time. They exist outside of the passage of time and are present for all of it as it is originally happening. Eren's influence on Grisha isnt him changing the timeline; because he had always influenced the first time around. There are videos on youtube that are entirely about explaining this concept for AoT for those of us who cannot wrap their heads around the concept, ("This video will change how you see Eren" by invaderzz covers it, although it has heavy spoilers for the entire anime and manga). God I love AoT.
He only was able to see grisha’s memories because Zeke took him through his dad’s life. The only reason why grisha could interact with zeke and such was because eren was there, sending him the memories his is obtaining in the present while going through his dads memories, almost like a ghost.
I'm so glad to hear they'll re-watch the show, everyone should do that. Really hope they post their reactions to the re-watch bc it's a completely different experience.
I hope they do, but idk, I don't think they're planning to. But who knows, maybe if a lot of people ask them to do it, there's a chance they would go through with it
I'd rather they do it for themselves and don't post - it takes up an extra slot that could easily be given to one of many many great shows they plan to watch.
At the slow pace they post AOT reactions, they wont be able to be done with the rewatch by March, when AoT airs again. They should just rewatch by their own.
Eren and Zeke are seeing Grisha's memories which means they see everything through Grisha's eyes, that also means that every memory Grisha sees is through Eren's eyes, which means that when Grisha sees Zeke is bc Eren is in front of Zeke looking at him and that's how he knows where to go to hug him since he isn't physically there, that also means that in the scenes where it looks like Grisha is directly seeing Eren he's just actually seeing what he sees but in 3rd person through the power of the attack titan which tells him Eren must be there seeing, he must be there in his mind space even if Eren wouldn't be looking directly at him from there since he should be in front of a mirror for Eren and Zeke to be able to see his face in his own memories.
No, I think Zeke and Eren perspective is true and only Grisha is seeing Erens memories for his POV. If Zeke and Eren are watching from grisha POV then how did Grisha see Zeke? Grisha only saw Zeke because Eren was looking at Zeke while in the basement and Grisha eyes were shut at the time. This means Zeke and Eren are watching the memories from the actual perspective that is shown. Grisha me the only one who POV is different than shown. Also I think the only reason Grisha could see Zeke at the end was because Eren left the memory and aloud Grisha to make up with Zeke then after that he kicked Zeke out. I think Eren really does care about the brother and father too.
@@bigSLOW589 nope, it's confirmed they both are seeing Grisha's memories, seeing someone memories means you're seeing through their eyes bc you don't live your life seeing yourself in third person. The question you do is answered in my first comment "how does Grisha see Zeke?" bc Grisha can see the memories of Eren, he sees through Eren eyes and if you check every time Grisha sees Zeke is bc Eren is behind him looking directly at Zeke, which is why Grisha is able to see him. Grisha was sleeping at first, yeah, but you can also dream with memories, we know this since seasons ago. Grisha was first dreaming with Eren's memories where he can see Zeke, then he wakes up and at the end of the episode and he can see Zeke since Eren is behind them looking at him, the only thing Grisha is allowed to see by this power is Eren's memories and Eren doesn't see his life in third person, he sees it through his eyes as everyone else so if you see his memories then you see what he sees, not he himself and then the others as we, the public, do. There's no way for Eren and Zeke to see things from the actual perspective that is shown bc there's times they're alone with Grisha in a room and there's no one else but to see it in the perspective the show shows us we would need from someone else who's watching the three of them for them to see everyone else in third person since their own eyes but we don't have that, the only other way for them to be seeing everything through that perspective is literally time travel, literally being present in that room to even see what Grisha can't see as his own body but that's not how this power works at all, they can only see the past through memories and if they're seeing memories from someone then how are they actually seeing that someone when people don't see themselves in third person in their day to day. Grisha's pov is the same as the others, they all see memories same way bc all memories work the same and it all works with memories and nothing else, there's no human with memories that allows them to see their own body moving from another perspective than their own, if they're seeing Grisha's memories (and they're bc that's how this work and they said they're seeing tthat many times in the ep) then they're seeing through his eyes bc Grisha can't live seeing himself from someone else's eyes but from his own so that's how his memories are and what Eren and Zeke see, just as that's the exact same thing that happens when Grisha sees Eren's memories, he sees what he lives and remembers, memories, so from his eyes. And yes, obviously Grisha can only see Zeke bc Eren allows him to see that memory but since that's Eren's memory it means that's what Eren is seeing so from his eyes, so Grisha is seeing through his eyes, which means he sees from Eren's pov and he is seeing Grisha's memories and Zeke so Grisha sees from behind thanks to Eren's pov and Zeke in front of him, which is why he knows to where to move to hug him even when in his time Zeke isn't physically there but he just sees him there bc of the memory of Eren in his memories.
@@jrlombardi5251 okay lol you wrote a bit much I didn’t read it all tbh 😅. Could you explain how Grisha is seeing Zeke I’m really trying to understand. Eren and Zeke are seein Grisha POV? If this is the case how did Grisha see Zeke at the end if both Zeke and Eren are viewing grisha POV? Eren looking at Zeke in the memory means that Zeke is separate from Erens view. Unless I’m mistaken and Grisha didn’t see Zeke in the basement and just saw Zeke from Eren past memories. At the end Eren is not in the memory only Zeke and Grisha so how can he see him? This is where it sort of confuses me. Also, when and where is this confirmed? state the source please so I can rewatch. This shit confusing af bruh
@@bigSLOW589 dude, it's fine if you don't want to read it all but then stop asking me things, you literally asked me again things I already answered twice.
I normally can't find the attention span to watch the entire discussion in one sitting but back when you guys were watching season 2 I promised myself to watch the whole thing for this episode because iy's my favorite episode of the entire show and Autosave's discussions are dope and super passionate
16:30 In this scene, Grisha's left hand holding a knife is very important. Grisha is right-handed. If you watch other episodes with Grisha again, you can see that he is right-handed. Grisha is the one who started all of this, and the beginning of it is Grisha dragging Fay out of his "right hand". Eren reminded Grisha of Fay's death and promoted his vengeance. Because of that vengeance, Grisha is forced to kill the children. Grisha held a knife with his left hand to punish his right hand for putting him in this situation. +
I remember one time you asked:"Why did Grisha choose to give everything to Eren? That's a heavy burden to put on your kid. What if he doesn't want it?". There was that one scene before Grisha injects Eren and tells him: "I know you can do it."
Shoot. When it was shown in the manga that those who have royal blood are the only ones who can actually tap into the full potential of coordinate, the scene with Grisha saying you can do it didn't really sit well with me. Now I know why lol. Isayama, you magnificent bastard 🤦🏻♀️
And here we are , the single greatest plot-twist of all time. We thought Eren fights for freedom because the attack titan wishes for it, but here we see Eren made the attack titan the way it is due his sheer will.
Well the Attack Titan did want freedom. That was Erens dream...every single Attack Titan inheritor was technically lead by Eren. They all lead to him, to the end.
This is one of my favorite episodes of the show. There's also a subtlety that almost no one catched: when Grisha ask Zeke for forgiveness, it's the first time adult Zeke calls him dad (before he always referred to him by his name). I can't get tired of this show.
Isayama is a genius for such new concept of futures travel without making it time travel but it’s through memories. How futures memories exactly work, everyone just have theory but heres mine Grisha can see Zeke because he is seeing future memories of Eren and is seeing Zeke from Eren’s POV. Eren when he sees Grisha can see Zeke because of him, he realises that instead of just being a spectator he can actually influence past, that’s why he becomes intrigued to go to more memories. In next memory he tries to make Grisha know Eren is here, Grisha CANT exactly see Eren but know he is there because he sees himself from Erens POV Then in Reiss family scene, Eren knows he has to interfere in the past and he did, again Grisha can only hear Eren and not see him because he is viewing things from his POV People mostly have one question that why only Eren was able to affect past why not any other attack titan holder when they have same power, It’s because you have to be in past to affect the past , it was Zeke who brought Eren in the past (that’s why Eren later thanked him) it was Zeke who used founding titan power to go back, so both founding and attack titan’s ability was used not just attack titan hence only Eren was the one controlling and manipulating memories.
When Eren tells Grisha that if no one follows the scout's work then their deaths would be in vain, you can tell Grisha feels touched by that bc he literally abandoned his mission being the only one left to make it and now that hits him bc it makes him think he's letting Dina, Krueger, Grice and everyone else die in vain.
with Ben and Anna it felt like my emotions and exact reaction when I went through the manga was the same as theirs it's actually amazing 😭 most reactors think Grisha showing Eren the key means seeing him Yes, But, with their reaction it felt like they knew at that moment Grisha wasn't talking to the younger Eren at this scene. Thank you for understanding the series :') and yes , it's the best show ever. Eren's glory days when this chapter was released was definitely unmatched by any other MC ever
The pay off of watching and listening to your discussion for this episode is so great, like i feel great right now. Been here since you guys started reacting to season 1 and let me tell you, the wait, the build up to this is so worth it. You guys are my fav aot reactors fr 🤩
You can see the point where it totally hits you. So heartbreaking and masterful for a story to pull this off. So amazing and easily a top episode or piece of show out of anything I've ever seen
Remember that when Grisha took Eren to the forest to turn him into a titan he was really mad and treating him in a cold and angry way? I always felt that scene was a bit weird but after I watched this episode it all connected and that treatment and interaction of Grisha with Eren in his final moments was explained
@@Etphoneholmes it was when he realised that while he was out taking the founder from the royal family his house was destroyed and Carla had already died... And that's why after he told Zeke to stop Eren he still entrusted the founding and the attack titan to Eren
Remember that we also saw Ymir in season 2 in her backstory getting to the paths and she wasn't about to die or badly injured, that kinda goes against your theory
Just when you think this story can't possibly have anything else to show you than repup it goes and gives you episodes like this which you can sit through and start realize how much this change how you saw past episodes and the whole story
Nah its because Eren went back in time to when Isayama was writing it and was leaning over his shoulder incepting future memories of the plot having already been written to perfection. Lmao
He's just standing there ... menacingly! I just love this image: Zeke, posessing godly power, is laying on the ground, petrified with fear. Eren, being in chains, stands unwavering and terrifying.
We have made it to the most insane moment in Attack on Titan literally changing everything we’ve known. Edit: F in the Chat for Ben’s notes they have not been doing good since these recent reactions
Grisha has many amazing lines in this episode but one little line always tugs my heartstrings. "My wife, son, and daughter..." He'd only had Mikasa in his life for a year at that point and he cared for her like a daughter. This man, traumatized by the death of his little sister, dared make room in his heart for another little girl. Damn ninjas cutting onions...
After rewatching this with you guys I realized that what the Owl said to Grisha is more clear. When Grisha asks if his hatred for the world and Marley and all that is why he chose him, the Owl responded that it was an aspect. I wonder if Eren also influenced the Owl to choose Grisha to be his dad.
1:39:10 Grisha is telling Zeke to stop Eren because what he saw in Eren future memory is so horrible and he knows it's gonna happen. But at that time, kid Eren didn't have the Attack Titan yet, so Grisha can simply stop Eren by not giving him the power. You have already noticed in the episode that Grisha didn't know Carla's dead because Eren didn't show him all the memories. If you go back to SS3 EP11, you will see that it was kid Eren who reveal Carla's death and that's the moment when Grisha lost his mind. He immediately drag Eren to the forest and gave him the power. It was Eren's plan all along.
@@GerblerM , he did, actually. Though not thanks to the Attack Titan but the Founder. Specifically because Zeke made them walk the memories of the past. Eren himself said later he got a chance to show Grisha the future memories most convenient for him.
@@dimaudalow He wasn't in control of the founder then, nor were we ever shown him "sending" memories. Eren was never in control of what Grisha saw - Grisha saw what he did, because it was always like that. If he didn't then Eren would never have ended up in a position to walk through Grisha's memories. The AoT universe is a fixed and causal system with no free will
@@GerblerMGrisha states that all attack titan users have been guided by a single wielder, and in the very first episode and in the manga adult eren sends kid eren specific memories of the future and end of the series when he was sleeping under the tree (even before kid eren inherited the titan).
@@GerblerM , it's explicitly stated Eren was in control. Zeke said Eren was able to choose the memories he could show Grisha, while Eren himself mentioned it became possible thanks to Zeke using the Founder to walk Grisha's memories.
@Autosave I am so happy you guys have reached this point! @Ben....when you ripped your notes into...OMG!! This season(4) each episode adds to the previous! Get ready for the next two - They are phenomenal!! Also, I went back and watched most of Season One yesterday just to see your reaction! Love your channel!
So.. since you’re at this point, a fan theory is adult Eren can be seen in a few spots in season 1. There’s 3 moments that I can think of where this random adult that looks like Eren is in the same area as him but his face is covered up
@@Etphoneholmes The kids are on a cart talking and there’s a cloaked figure next to them and Eren actually looks at him The other is when the Survey Corp return the first time, there’s someone in the front of the crowd watching them walk by
15:02 The true power of Attack Titan as I understand it is "To not be controlled by Founder so that it can oppose it", the "seeing in future" is due to Grisha eventually eating the founder and Eren using the coordinate to send images from past into the future. Hopefully this message is seen by them at some point, I love them and their reactions so much.
Love that show, and I enjoy even more the way you guys react, deconstruct, interact with each other with such chemistry and respect for each other, and yet with such passion. I've watched 4-5 YTbers react to the whole show, and nothing comes even close to me to what you guys do with it. Thank you for all the time you invest in this and sharing so much with us. It feels wholesome and it warms my soul seeing and hearing you guys 👍🏻❤️
When Grisha said "We were led by our memories all for this moment", he realized that he was standing at the inception of it all. Which explains why Eren tells him "Even after death". As if Grisha continues to serve his purpose trapped in this window of time, on repeat. And it was only made possible because Zeke intervened. Masterful storytelling
Omg I was waiting for this and your reaction definitely didn't disappoint! I can't wait to listen to the discussion once I finally get home from school😩 This episode is definitely one of the best episodes of Attack on Titan, it's such an insane twist. I wish I could see the way Isayama's brain works...
The moment Grisha decided he had to go meet the king of the walls was when kid Eren said “If no one takes the places from the ones who died, all their deaths will be in vain”. That reminded him that he had to complete his mission, otherwise his wife and comrades sacrifice will be meaningless. Also he knew someday he would need to do that, because he knew someday the warriors would break the wall.
Guys you just cannot make us wait 5 days for the next reaction... This episodes (19, 20 y 21) are like a trilogy, like S3 episodes 16, 17 y 18. AoT it's a MASTERPIECE. Guys, Keep Moving Forward
Wooooooooo boy!!! The moment is here at last! I wish I had a notebook to tear apart when I first watched this show, Ben 😄Although I still feel like I could do that rewatching it lol
Great reaction. I can't wait to watch your reaction to the next episode. By the way, in my opinion Grisha was very lucky he didn't go for the Founding Titan when he discovered the Reiss hideout, because at that point he wouldn't be facing the inexperienced Frieda, but the experienced Uri.
Zeke: Father has brainwashed you brother, let me save you Zeke: *Sees the twist* Eren: I'm the brainwashed one? Ooooooh No brother, I'm the one who does the brainwashing here Zeke: *Shocked Pikachu face*
when you've watched "the world the girl saw", you'd also realize gabi being there at that moment to turn eren's head into a beyblade was also planned so eren can gain his 'other' memories.
Them being able to touch is an EXTRA plot twist on an already huge plot twist. If anyone was watching grisha in that moment they would have seen a dude screaming in the air hugging nothing, but it was an extra twist to it. Zeke felt that hug
If there ever was an episode where we say goodbye to Ben's notebook, it HAD to be this one lmao. That poor books been tossed around and abused so much, RIP 😔. Also AMAZING post episode discussion, I've rewatched this episode about 5 times with multiple different reactions, but this is the first time I've learnt so many new things that you guys pointed out! Like Eren looking at grishas photo and then all of a sudden grisha is able to see Zeke 👀
You both have the best AOT reactions! Love the discussions and how invested you guys are! I was the same way when I was watching for the first time. Such a special show.
The brilliant writing choice here is its less of a plot twist and more of a plot reveal. It hits so hard because of how it explains things. Eren was acting odd every since he kissed Historia's hand. Kruger saying to "Save Mikasa and Armin" and so on. We always were given clues there was more going on, so it doesn't so much twist the plot back on you, but reveals the story but to a magnitude that you don't expect. Yes there is some time shennigans, and its been older Eren pulling the strings. Same with the walls, many people suspected there were people outside them. What we didn't expect was the rest of the world being just fine and this little island being the only place really living in a Titan controlled land and that even that wasn't what it seemed. The titans were there to keep people out as much as others in. It encourages suspicion, but the reveal is "Oh you were right to suspect, you just didn't suspect enough you fool!"
I really admire both of you because you spent more than an hour to discuss each episode into depth and show us the best reaction to this show. And I have never seen the reacter saying so much from his heart "Is it the best show you've ever seen?"
I just let the discussion play out while I was studying for my project, and I was drawn back to this when I hear that cat analogy.. it's bizarre but strangely accurate lmao... Eldians from the walls truly are innocent cats
When I first watched this, when Grisha said that he could see the memories of the AT's future inheritors I had this stomach loop moment that reminded me of Seven when Morgan Freemen was trying to push back the cops "John Doe has the upper hand!". It was just the "Oh no what's in the box?!" feeling.
Loving these back to back drops! Haven't even seen the video yet, but this is how uploads should be for a show that isn't currently airing Sidenote: I'm surprised they didn't connect the dots with Historia kissing Eren's hand. Good thing it's clarified next episode.
If you see that moment in the reaction portion, there's a text at 16:41 at the bottom left at the historia moment where it says ben noticed that and will talk about it next episode.
Hey guys, I saw this comment in an other video and it explains everything that's happened this episode so I though I'd paste it here for everyone who hasn't seen it yet cause there is a lot to unpack and it might get confusing for first time watchers so here it is: Just to clear something. Time travel is not a thing in AoT. Only the memories and will to act travel. Zeke and eren were there the entire time, but grisha saw Zeke only twice. One was when he was in the basement and the other was outside the cave. Again, it's the memories. Grisha saw everything from eren's pov. The reason being eren was standing behind grisha and looking at Zeke on those two occasions. That's why grisha was able to see zeke only on those two occasions. Another thing, grisha never saw future eren, he just felt his presence. In the 🗝 scene when grisha is looking at future eren, he's basically looking at himself in 3rd person. Also in the cave grisha felt eren's angry presence behind him. Grisha was literally being watched by eren all along and grisha knew this. Lastly, attack titan can see the future is a very oversimplified explanation. Actually it's the memories sent by eren to the past that makes AT see the future. Same happened when eren passed the memories to Kruger (the owl) when se said "you have to save Mikasa and Armin" to grisha. You may think how grisha touched Zeke. It's just that he was hugging the space where zeke was standing. In real time.if anyone had seen grisha would have thought grisha is just hugging air. That scene symbolises a "fake" hug or a "hollow" hug symbolising it's too late for.grisha to.redeem himself as zeke's father. Hope this adds another layer to what you already understood ☺ There are also quite a few twitters threads going a bit more in details so if anyone is interested reply and I'll look up the link again for you :)
Yeah, so everything was shown to Eren the moment he touched Historia's hand back in the final episode of season 3. He touched her hand which activated the founder's ability to look into the past but since he is also the attack titan, his future was shown to Grisha by himself thus, making the season 3 Eren seeing all of his future that was showed to Grisha which then changed him because he know right there and then what his future was and what he needed to do. But this doesn't mean he can see everything because the future that was shown to him was the future that he selected to lead Grisha. So he doesn't have complete knowledge of the future and that is why there are certain things that he is surprised to see.
The ability of the Attack Titan to share the memories of their successors from the past to the future. It is the combination of the founder titan's ability and the blood of the royal family that has given Eren the ability of the time travel.
I wrote that comment for another reaction channel to explain what happened here. I share this with you: trust me, this is worth reading and ofc, without spoilers (also, there will not be any other explanation in the following episodes up until the end so...). Two thousand years ago, the titans were born from the powers of Ymir and in the previous episode, Zeke told us that she is a slave of the royal family for unknown reasons (at least for now). In this episode, Grisha tells us that the attack titan was created to fight the king's self-righteousness and that Frieda (the royal family) was unaware of it. In other words, Ymir would have created the attack titan behind the back of the royal family. We know that each primordial can see the memories of its predecessors (Porco seeing Marcel's memories or Armin with Bertholdt). But, in this episode, we learned that the attack titan has the power to read the memories of its future holders. This power, only Eren discovered it... When? How?. The response is simple: by mistake. When Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his father killing the royal family but he also saw his father chatting with Zeke and his future self. The power of the attack titan is not to see the future directly but simply to observe the memories of the next holder if this one accepts it. For example, at the end of the episode, Grisha does not see Zeke, he sees himself, facing Zeke, from Eren's point of view. You can see Eren as a camera where he can choose, whenever he wants, to share his current vision to his predecessors. Then, to "know" the future, he has to share his vision to the predecessors and then see in Grisha's memories what's going to happen. There can only be one future (obviously). So when Eren decided to share his memories, he writes history, and the future cannot change anymore, otherwise his memories could not be transmitted to others and history would change. It's fate. When Eren shows his memories, he transmits them to all his predecessors simultaneously. Now you know why Eren was saying "TATAKAE" in front of the mirror: he was actually sharing his memories and using the mirror so that his predecessors can see him. Try to imagine: the first person gets the attack titan two thousand years ago and sees Eren telling him "fight, if you don't fight, you can't win". Apart from this person, all those who inherited this titan thought they were seeing the memories of the first owner, when in fact, they were seeing the memories of the last owner of this titan. Exactly, Eren must be the last attack titan, because if there is a new one, he could share is memories to change history and that is not possible. To be precise, Grisha was also aware of the impact of the future on his time. When Eren shared his memories, by "mistake", he revealed the presence of Zeke. From this moment, Grisha start understanding the power of the attack titan. Another thing: Now, we know why Eren Kruger said "To save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else, you must see it through.". In fact, everyone who had the attack titan knew they had to save Mikasa and Armin, but they didn't know it was future memories. -------> To be clear: the moment the attack titan was created by Ymir, the whole story was written and could not be changed. To understand how the story is written, you have to admit that the story is written from the end. Okay, so Eren wants freedom for him and his friends. When he thinks he got that freedom, he shares his memories and the past can't change. In fact: two thousand years of history has been written at that exact moment. Inevitably, we are going to the future that Eren saw, and no one can change a thing. If for example, Eren wanted to be a pizza maker (yeah...), the attack titan goal would not be to fight the king's self-righteousness with freedom, but with pizza and the history would have been different. That's because Eren wants freedom that every holder of the attack titan wanted freedom as well. Eren Kruger told us on the wall that Grisha was "chosen" to have the attack titan. In fact, this titan is transmitted each time to someone revolutionary. Indeed, if someone revolutionary has the attack titan, he will want to bequeath it to someone who shares his revolutionary ideas and that's how the titan has travelled through history to "fight" the royal line. It's funny to see that Zeke thought that Eren was being manipulated by his father, when we learn that Eren was manipulating two thousand years of history ^^. The story is actually a loop: Grisha steals the founding titan -> Grisha gives both titans to Eren -> Eren can attack Marley -> they can "kidnap" Zeke -> they can "touch" each other -> they can travel in Grisha's memory -> Eren can "contact" Grisha through memories and tell him to steal the founding titan -> ... (loop) This is the ultimate paradox of Attack on Titan. You can't find a beginning to the story except from the end. Another paradox: Eren ordered Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> So he's going to look for his daughter (Historia) -> he will get killed by her -> She will become the new Queen of Eldia -> Eren will kiss her hand for the presentation of survey corps medals -> So he can look at his father's memories and see himself ordering to Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> ... (loop) Here is my last point: When Zeke wanted to use his scream, Eren said "Wait!". At first sight, we can think that Eren hesitates and does not want to lose the people dear to him (Pixis for example). It's not that at all. Eren tells him to wait a second, so that Falco, his brother (Colt) and Gabi can arrive and do their dialogue. Once Zeke uses his scream, he orders Falco to "defend" Eren. That's what allows Eren's run. Also, without that little second, Gabi wouldn't be there and couldn't shoot Eren. Since Eren kissed Historia's hand, there are many details like that and I encourage you all to watch SNK again to find out more. Thanks you for reading this, it is always with great pleasure that I like to discuss this masterpiece that is SNK.
Eren is a genius character. A master manipulator. He is so desensitized that from the time he was a kid, he has wanted to be something more, and boy was he not ready for the road ahead. Life hits you hard, but FUCKING HELL IT HIT THAT BOY LIKE A DAMN SEMI-TRUCK. That reality that you can’t be free until all roots of power must be lost and free will ultimately grants power and oppression to more power and oppression, is not enough for the brain of a young adult. HOLY FUCK.
What I LOVE about the scene with the royal family is the fact that the *actual* face-off was King Fritz's will from the past vs Eren Jaeger's will from the future
I've never thought of it that way. THAT is amazing.
Eren's expression after Frieda's monologue says it all lol.
Ben ripping up his notebook was peak AutoSave. That man's entire life was just turned upside down. xD
"We are really calm and collected civilized individuals"
Some minutes before this was said: * aggressively rips notebook apart *
Plot twist: Eren whispered into Ben's ears to ask him to rip up his notebook
@@susbedo9258 it all makes sense now! o_O
The best reaction to this plot twist ever
Grisha's voice actor deserves an award for his performance in this episode
Best voice actor ever!
Second is Eren voice actor.
The VAs are absolutely spectacular. Say what you will about the english version, the japanese blows everything out of the water.
My favorite moments from a VA pov:
Erens mother yelling at them to run in despair in the first episode.
Eren losing his mind when Hannes is killed.
Grishas despair after Eren made him kill the family.
I don't even know who has the best voice. At first I thought it was Eren, but then I chose Grisha. Then Connie, Floch, Levi, Nicolo, Colt...
@@KING_FLOCH... Ikr. They are all so talented
@@KING_FLOCH... Don't want to put spoilers, but I know which scene you put Connie on that list for, and that's the one that hits the hardest to me.
12:38 This is the most surprising scene in AOT for me.
In the manga chapter 1, Grisha was not looking at kid Eren but looking at the door, which might mean Isayama had already built the whole plot from the very beginning. In the anime episode 1, however, it was not shown because the camera zoomed in on the key. This foreshadowing was paid off in the manga chapter 121, literally 10 years later.
Yup, I actually went back to confirm, after I realized it wasn't shown in episode 1 and you most definitely see Grisha just looking anywhere but at Eren or any other person in the room.
Which isn't odd upon first reading, but with the context of the last few episodes it's undeniably a seed sown to link and close the story loop.
Even Eren's dream at the start has (multiple) callbacks. One major callback, that everyone always cites, but also a minor callback: To the moment when Eren experiences Grisha's memories. And he repeats "I was dreaming", but then adds "no, not dreaming, it was a memory".
And that's a BIG reveal in combination with the very first chapter/episode. Also slightly invalidating of some other story aspects, but at least it makes the story coherent.
pretty sure isayama said he had the whole story figured out before starting it
@@theoriginalfluff5317 He wrote it from the end to the beginning, so the beginning of the show is when the viewers knew the least amount while Isayama knew everything.
Discussion timestamps:
18:35 Autosave is very Elegant
19:50 Initial thoughts
21:41 A whole new perspective
23:55 The plot twist
25:52 Grisha being a father
27:55 Eren’s looks
29:26 Eren’s confidence
30:40 Grisha’s memories
32:31 The basement scene
36:38 Ymir in the intro
38:02 Ilse’s Titan
40:52 Eren’s uno reverse
42:45 “I am who I’ve always been”
44:58 “Rather than letting someone steal my freedom- I’ll steal theirs first”
45:55 “A convenient little brother”
47:25 Kid Eren’s argument
49:31 Eren in the memories
51:23 Influencing memories rules
53:56 Waiting music
54:36 The scene from EP1
57:47 Grisha and the scouts
1:00:47 What is Grisha seeing?
1:01:45 Curating the future memories
1:03:09 The underground chapel scene
1:04:20 Eren letting it happen
1:05:51 Eren controlling Grisha
1:07:46 The moment of decision
1:10:30 Atonement of the Ignorant
1:14:30 The King’s inaction
1:16:49 Grisha glances back
1:18:36 The big moment
1:20:52 The Attack Titan
1:24:11 When did it begin?
1:27:33 Grisha’s resolve
1:28:42 Eren’s words to Grisha
1:30:56 When does Grisha realise
1:33:40 What did Eren show him
1:36:04 Grisha seeing Zeke
1:39:09 “Please, Stop Eren”
1:41:11 How is Eren doing this
1:47:11 Eren influencing without paths
1:49:18 Ben’s AOT What-if?
1:53:52 finishing thoughts
1:54:40 What does Eren want?
This discussion was SO GOOD!
15:57 rip Ben’s notes 😜
Good to see you, king.
Hero💥
how the fuck did you do this this quick
bro the video has only been out 30 mins!!!
@@ChickenAndFries09Twitch They are probably a patreon member
What are daddy issues? Just traumatize your father back.
Jokes aside, though.
“Even in death. Even after death. Weren't you the one who started this story?”
This has never failed to give me chills.
Was Erin parroting Kruger's words, or did Erin make Kruger say that in the first place?
@@adamisajoker , we can't know that for certain. Though not sure if Eren influenced Kruger directly. Maybe the latter just used the same words unconsciously, based on future memories, just like he mentioned Mikasa and Armin. Btw, Eren was able to directly influence Grisha only thanks to the fact Zeke brought him into the memories .
@@adamisajoker In my opinion, Eren was mirroring Kruger's words. But we still haven't seen the end of how Eren has exactly influenced the past so we can't know for certain.
@@adamisajoker Just my opinion, but it seems implied to me that Eren's will has manipulated the Attack Titan users throughout history. Kind of a reverse Founder Titan situation where the past king influences future users. Which given their opposition to each other, that mirroring makes sense to me. So I think Kruger was influenced by our Eren.
@@maizeman90 Yes. The horror on Grisha's face is that he recognized that speech almost word for word from his pep talk with Kruger and he realizes that Eren was talking through Kruger, hence the Armin and Mikasa line drop.
Someone NEEDS to give Hiroshi Tsuchida, Grisha's VA, an award. He owns absolutely every episode he's in. That Day, Sole Salvation, and now Memories of the Future. Absolutely heartbreaking performances.
He did, Aot got the best VA performance of the year award.
@Silk Sonic I dont think so, it's a father meeting his son he thought would never see again and carrying massive guilt over his mistakes. "If only we spent more time together" is the realization of what could have been if only Grisha hadn't made his mistakes.
@Silk Sonic The guy was literally goaded by his future son to kill the Reiss Family against his own will, and saw glimpses of the stuff Eren would do. Plus he had a mental breakdown, and he regretting so much about how he treated Zeke. Pile everything together, it's understandable that he'd break down
Apparently the poor guy seriously fucked up hir throat doing lines for this episode. Had trouble speaking for a day or two afterwards.
@silksonic3927 Don't think so, if he had screamed his lungs out until his throat teared apart it would still not be overdone. The word insanity to describe what Grisha felt in this moment is an understatement.
Eren whispered in Isayama's ear and told him to write this story
On a serious note, it's really scary how Grisha, someone who was so anti-Marley and pro-Eldia, saw one glimpse of Eren's plan and was like, "Zeke. You have to stop him." Despite Grisha's hate for Marley and how far he was willing to go, even HE thought his plan was too far. He was genuinely horrified. Whatever Eren's plan is, Grisha does not want it to happen.
Speaking of, Zeke and Grisha finally getting to work out their issues and hug each other in a moment of pure love is really heartwarming. Grisha understood his mistakes when raising Zeke before. Instead of only treating him as a tool, he treats him as his son. Zeke is finally able to take his first step towards closure after years of trauma. Even if they had their differences, Grisha and Zeke can at least agree with one thing: Stopping Eren.
I think Eren does care for his older brother. The same way that Zeke cares about Eren and wanted to show him the light of his plan, Eren cares about Zeke but won't stop moving forward to reach his.
Yeah.... the difference in numbers is unbelievable.
Grisha didn't care about Marley, he told Zeke to stop Eren while thinking about the other nations that even Marley held hostage, but also hated Eldians just didn't get involved.
@Silk Sonic I'm definitely talking about something else.
Although it seems Grisha eventually changed his mind since he had no qualms about giving Eren the Attack Titan. Maybe after Carla's death he was like, fuck it, burn them all.
@@BhBc8f8 it was definitely Carla's death that made him give titan to Eren. And scary part is, Grisha when asking Zeke, already knew something would happen that would make him give titan to Eren. He knew Mikasa and Eren would survive, so he worried about them when riding back home on kart. He likely already knew Carla died when going back, and knew that would lead to him giving Eren a titan
"is this the Best show we ever seen?"
Yes, it is, thx Isayama for this Masterpiece
*Thanks Eren
Yeah
The end, tho...
@@Carol-91 the end is perfect lol go back to watching disney with that happy ending
@@kenshinPH the problem is the ending being happy after such a tragedy. If you find it good, maybe you're a nazist.
@@kenshinPH yeah. Smh ppl really were expecting 4everafter at tye end of dark fantasy horror story about racism, genocide and such.
Some of the best visual story-telling is seen in this episode to take note of.
- Grisha on his hands and knees, praying to Frieda (God).
- An angel (Zeke) on one shoulder, and a devil (Eren) on the other, both behind Grisha (as if to represent them literally standing in the past).
- And just as Grisha explains the Attack Titan's powers to see into its future inheritor's memories, Eren steps in front of Grisha, as if to step into the future itself.
- Cutting beautifully to Eren standing in the front, Grisha in the middle, and Zeke in the back (perfectly showing Eren stepping out of the past where Zeke is and into the future)
Just phenomenal staging and visual story-telling all around.
Zeke's biggest miscalculation was thinking that Eren needed to see Grisha's memories in order to have his mind changed. Eren inherited Grisha's memories and for all Zeke knows has already seen every waking moment of Grisha's life.
I love the way reshowing events from a different person's perspective makes such a massive difference to the story. I mentioned it back during one of the earlier Season4 videos using the flashback of Marcel sacrificing himself to save Reiner. It gets shown 3 different times during season 2, a 4th time in S4E3, and then again last episode during S4E19. Each time more of the scene is shown to us that adds more perspective. First it was just Reiner and Marcel, then we see Bertholdt was also there, then we see Annie was also there, then we see that the reason everyone reacted so slowly was the shocking reveal Marcel told Reiner moments earlier.
The Attack Titan power of future memories makes this even more impactful when you consider different characters quoting the exact same lines to each other during pivotal moments of the story:
In S1E9 Eren remembers Grisha saying "to protect Mikasa and Armin you must master this power", which we hear again when Eren Kruger says it to Grisha in S3E22.
In the 2nd last episode of the Trost arc in season 1 when Armin finally manages to snap Eren out of his stupor he says something to the effect of "Because I was born into this world" or "This world is my birthright", which Carla says to Keith after he goes off at her for being ordinary in the S3E11 flashback, and we heard it again last episode when Eren told Zeke he wouldnt sterilize all the Eldians, because the world was his birthright.
Another great part of the new context of specific events is realizing how some characters would have interpreted specific lines that we had no way of considering before. When Grisha asks kid Eren why he wants to go outside the walls he mentions that its more horrible than Eren could even imagine. During S1E1 the audience could only assume he meant the Titans, but he really meant the oppression of the Eldians by Marley. Young Eren responds with the phrase about the lives of those who came before us being meaningless if we dont fight on in their place, which means something very different to Grisha considering what happened to Dina, Grice and Kruger.
For the specifics of how the future memories power works; remember back to S3E6 when Historia and Rob Riece touched Eren's back and he witnessed Grisha giving the injection to Eren and then being eaten by Eren FROM GRISHA's PERSPECTIVE. This is important.
Throughout this episode you can notice Grisha is seeing and feeling things he should not be able to. Each time Grisha is able to see Zeke you might notice that Eren is standing in a spot in the room where he has direct line of sight of both Grisha and Zeke. This is important.
All of the Titan-Shifters are able to see memories from the former holders of their titans, however the Attack Titan is able to send memories backwards to the previous holders as well. This on its own doesnt give Eren the power to mastermind this entire thing, but once Zeke had brought Eren into Grisha's memories and was able to see Zeke and witness those memories from outside Grisha's perspective, Eren had now seen those events firsthand, which he could then send back to Grisha.
This means that in that moment, Grisha was experiencing those events in real time, both from his own perspective, and also from Eren's perspective, the overlap causing him to see Zeke there in real time in the past when it originally happened. This is why each time he was seeing someone he had a look of horror on his face, because he was being given a message from the future in real time of that moment happening with additional context of what Eren and Zeke were doing when they watched it years later.
(Also the mind-fuck that experiencing that would be is insane. Imagine in any single moment you experience that same moment in real time from another person's perspective as well as from your own simultaneously.)
A hint to this that many people overlook is back in S3E22 when Grisha is talking to Kruger. Grisha says "wont I forget all of this once you turn me into a titan" to which Kruger says something to the effect of 'You may not be the only person who gets to see these memories', which is a reference to Eren witnessing it as a memory, and getting the exact phrasing of what Kruger said to Grisha to motivate him to continue with the plan.
"Even if you die, even after you die" "You are the one who started this story" "To save Mikasa and Armin" All of these things Eren learns about in S3 and is then able to incept them into Kruger's mind in that moment. Who's memories were they? Well they were Eren's memories of that exact event.
The reason Eren can do all of this and seemingly none of the other Attack Titan holders have been able to do this is because Eren is the first one to have both Founding and Attack titans, and get access to The Paths directly. The Attack Titan can see past memories just like all the other Titan-Shifters, but being able to see forward and backward isn't enough on its own. Eren can do it because he has full access to all of the memories of the previous holders, and specifically not from their own perspective. He witnesses the events of Grisha's memories for himself, so sending those memories back is possible, because they are his own memories. He isnt just witnessing Grisha's memories anymore, Future Eren is experiencing those events of Grisha's past, which allows him to incept them into Grisha for the purpose of triggering Grisha to motivate him. In some cases Eren doesn't even experience those memories for the purpose of giving them to Grisha. Often times Future Eren is experiencing them so he can send them to Grisha or Kruger, so that they can send them to Child Eren or Teen Eren from the past.
Its only after Future Eren gets to The Paths that he is able to do the full circle and send the memories indirectly back to his past self.
Last thought:
The type of "time travel" in AoT is the philosophical theory of Determinism. The TLDR version of it is that there is only a single timeline, and if someone was to go back in time or influence the past in some way, that those things had always happened and the timeline wasnt changed by them, because they had always happened.
(Things like OVA Lost Girls #3 is about an entirely separate parallel universe, where the events play out differently.)
Eren and Zeke were traveling through time and witnessing those events in real time. They exist outside of the passage of time and are present for all of it as it is originally happening. Eren's influence on Grisha isnt him changing the timeline; because he had always influenced the first time around. There are videos on youtube that are entirely about explaining this concept for AoT for those of us who cannot wrap their heads around the concept, ("This video will change how you see Eren" by invaderzz covers it, although it has heavy spoilers for the entire anime and manga).
God I love AoT.
And remember what Eren said to Annie at the end of season 1 when he was going berserk?
He only was able to see grisha’s memories because Zeke took him through his dad’s life. The only reason why grisha could interact with zeke and such was because eren was there, sending him the memories his is obtaining in the present while going through his dads memories, almost like a ghost.
I'm so glad to hear they'll re-watch the show, everyone should do that. Really hope they post their reactions to the re-watch bc it's a completely different experience.
Same, I hope they post the rewatch as well
I hope they do, but idk, I don't think they're planning to. But who knows, maybe if a lot of people ask them to do it, there's a chance they would go through with it
I'd rather they do it for themselves and don't post - it takes up an extra slot that could easily be given to one of many many great shows they plan to watch.
At the slow pace they post AOT reactions, they wont be able to be done with the rewatch by March, when AoT airs again. They should just rewatch by their own.
@@aquilesbrinco3295 who said anything about re-watching before march? 😂
Eren and Zeke are seeing Grisha's memories which means they see everything through Grisha's eyes, that also means that every memory Grisha sees is through Eren's eyes, which means that when Grisha sees Zeke is bc Eren is in front of Zeke looking at him and that's how he knows where to go to hug him since he isn't physically there, that also means that in the scenes where it looks like Grisha is directly seeing Eren he's just actually seeing what he sees but in 3rd person through the power of the attack titan which tells him Eren must be there seeing, he must be there in his mind space even if Eren wouldn't be looking directly at him from there since he should be in front of a mirror for Eren and Zeke to be able to see his face in his own memories.
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No, I think Zeke and Eren perspective is true and only Grisha is seeing Erens memories for his POV. If Zeke and Eren are watching from grisha POV then how did Grisha see Zeke? Grisha only saw Zeke because Eren was looking at Zeke while in the basement and Grisha eyes were shut at the time. This means Zeke and Eren are watching the memories from the actual perspective that is shown. Grisha me the only one who POV is different than shown. Also I think the only reason Grisha could see Zeke at the end was because Eren left the memory and aloud Grisha to make up with Zeke then after that he kicked Zeke out. I think Eren really does care about the brother and father too.
@@bigSLOW589 nope, it's confirmed they both are seeing Grisha's memories, seeing someone memories means you're seeing through their eyes bc you don't live your life seeing yourself in third person. The question you do is answered in my first comment "how does Grisha see Zeke?" bc Grisha can see the memories of Eren, he sees through Eren eyes and if you check every time Grisha sees Zeke is bc Eren is behind him looking directly at Zeke, which is why Grisha is able to see him. Grisha was sleeping at first, yeah, but you can also dream with memories, we know this since seasons ago. Grisha was first dreaming with Eren's memories where he can see Zeke, then he wakes up and at the end of the episode and he can see Zeke since Eren is behind them looking at him, the only thing Grisha is allowed to see by this power is Eren's memories and Eren doesn't see his life in third person, he sees it through his eyes as everyone else so if you see his memories then you see what he sees, not he himself and then the others as we, the public, do. There's no way for Eren and Zeke to see things from the actual perspective that is shown bc there's times they're alone with Grisha in a room and there's no one else but to see it in the perspective the show shows us we would need from someone else who's watching the three of them for them to see everyone else in third person since their own eyes but we don't have that, the only other way for them to be seeing everything through that perspective is literally time travel, literally being present in that room to even see what Grisha can't see as his own body but that's not how this power works at all, they can only see the past through memories and if they're seeing memories from someone then how are they actually seeing that someone when people don't see themselves in third person in their day to day. Grisha's pov is the same as the others, they all see memories same way bc all memories work the same and it all works with memories and nothing else, there's no human with memories that allows them to see their own body moving from another perspective than their own, if they're seeing Grisha's memories (and they're bc that's how this work and they said they're seeing tthat many times in the ep) then they're seeing through his eyes bc Grisha can't live seeing himself from someone else's eyes but from his own so that's how his memories are and what Eren and Zeke see, just as that's the exact same thing that happens when Grisha sees Eren's memories, he sees what he lives and remembers, memories, so from his eyes. And yes, obviously Grisha can only see Zeke bc Eren allows him to see that memory but since that's Eren's memory it means that's what Eren is seeing so from his eyes, so Grisha is seeing through his eyes, which means he sees from Eren's pov and he is seeing Grisha's memories and Zeke so Grisha sees from behind thanks to Eren's pov and Zeke in front of him, which is why he knows to where to move to hug him even when in his time Zeke isn't physically there but he just sees him there bc of the memory of Eren in his memories.
@@jrlombardi5251 okay lol you wrote a bit much I didn’t read it all tbh 😅. Could you explain how Grisha is seeing Zeke I’m really trying to understand. Eren and Zeke are seein Grisha POV? If this is the case how did Grisha see Zeke at the end if both Zeke and Eren are viewing grisha POV? Eren looking at Zeke in the memory means that Zeke is separate from Erens view. Unless I’m mistaken and Grisha didn’t see Zeke in the basement and just saw Zeke from Eren past memories. At the end Eren is not in the memory only Zeke and Grisha so how can he see him? This is where it sort of confuses me. Also, when and where is this confirmed? state the source please so I can rewatch. This shit confusing af bruh
@@bigSLOW589 dude, it's fine if you don't want to read it all but then stop asking me things, you literally asked me again things I already answered twice.
I normally can't find the attention span to watch the entire discussion in one sitting but back when you guys were watching season 2 I promised myself to watch the whole thing for this episode because iy's my favorite episode of the entire show and Autosave's discussions are dope and super passionate
This episode goated the show forever for me. We’ve never seen writing like this. Absolutely insane
Laughs in Code Geass, Monster, 20th century boys, OP, Berserk...
@@narommalagonmorales2663 should’ve said I never seen writing like this, because I’ve never seen those shows.
@@marleymarsss If you like AoT you should definitely watch Berserk. Both are peak writing.
@@庫倫亞利克 thanks fam, I will definitely give it a go!
@@narommalagonmorales2663code Geass LMAO
16:30 In this scene, Grisha's left hand holding a knife is very important.
Grisha is right-handed.
If you watch other episodes with Grisha again, you can see that he is right-handed.
Grisha is the one who started all of this, and the beginning of it is Grisha dragging Fay out of his "right hand".
Eren reminded Grisha of Fay's death and promoted his vengeance.
Because of that vengeance, Grisha is forced to kill the children.
Grisha held a knife with his left hand to punish his right hand for putting him in this situation.
+
Nice observation
Isamaya: lmfao
[Plot Tiwst]
Isayama : "Oh okay well, i never planifed that, it was pure accident ^^' "
You’re reaching
@@prankmaster0Any observation/interpretation is beautiful as farfetched as it is is still beautiful as long as it's logical
I remember one time you asked:"Why did Grisha choose to give everything to Eren? That's a heavy burden to put on your kid. What if he doesn't want it?". There was that one scene before Grisha injects Eren and tells him: "I know you can do it."
Shoot. When it was shown in the manga that those who have royal blood are the only ones who can actually tap into the full potential of coordinate, the scene with Grisha saying you can do it didn't really sit well with me. Now I know why lol. Isayama, you magnificent bastard 🤦🏻♀️
Man, rip to quite a few things this episode. Frieda, Grisha’s sanity, but most importantly, rip Ben’s notes.
probably my favorite episode in the entire series
Peak fiction
It's my personal favorite one. Until 131 is adapted probably
@@KeangoDLuke it will be the first episode of part 3 right? cant wait!!
@@pilliharshit6710 yep. Gonna be brutal
And here we are , the single greatest plot-twist of all time. We thought Eren fights for freedom because the attack titan wishes for it, but here we see Eren made the attack titan the way it is due his sheer will.
Well the Attack Titan did want freedom. That was Erens dream...every single Attack Titan inheritor was technically lead by Eren. They all lead to him, to the end.
@@Emarq31 the end? What exactly is the end?I’ve seen the end over and over again
All time is a bit much, but it's a pretty great one.
Freedom is just one of his motive, sure he want freedom, it's just it isn't his main reason/motive.
@@Emarq31 this is true
This is one of my favorite episodes of the show. There's also a subtlety that almost no one catched: when Grisha ask Zeke for forgiveness, it's the first time adult Zeke calls him dad (before he always referred to him by his name). I can't get tired of this show.
Isayama is a genius for such new concept of futures travel without making it time travel but it’s through memories.
How futures memories exactly work, everyone just have theory but heres mine
Grisha can see Zeke because he is seeing future memories of Eren and is seeing Zeke from Eren’s POV. Eren when he sees Grisha can see Zeke because of him, he realises that instead of just being a spectator he can actually influence past, that’s why he becomes intrigued to go to more memories.
In next memory he tries to make Grisha know Eren is here, Grisha CANT exactly see Eren but know he is there because he sees himself from Erens POV
Then in Reiss family scene, Eren knows he has to interfere in the past and he did, again Grisha can only hear Eren and not see him because he is viewing things from his POV
People mostly have one question that why only Eren was able to affect past why not any other attack titan holder when they have same power, It’s because you have to be in past to affect the past , it was Zeke who brought Eren in the past (that’s why Eren later thanked him) it was Zeke who used founding titan power to go back, so both founding and attack titan’s ability was used not just attack titan hence only Eren was the one controlling and manipulating memories.
IMO this is the best episode of all-time. The twist, the stakes, the emotions, the performances, the music. Perfection.
So true
The soundtrack combined with the voice acting gives me goosebumps every time
All of the freedoms hits different
@Silk Sonic cry more
When Eren tells Grisha that if no one follows the scout's work then their deaths would be in vain, you can tell Grisha feels touched by that bc he literally abandoned his mission being the only one left to make it and now that hits him bc it makes him think he's letting Dina, Krueger, Grice and everyone else die in vain.
with Ben and Anna it felt like my emotions and exact reaction when I went through the manga was the same as theirs it's actually amazing 😭 most reactors think Grisha showing Eren the key means seeing him Yes, But, with their reaction it felt like they knew at that moment Grisha wasn't talking to the younger Eren at this scene. Thank you for understanding the series :') and yes , it's the best show ever. Eren's glory days when this chapter was released was definitely unmatched by any other MC ever
The pay off of watching and listening to your discussion for this episode is so great, like i feel great right now. Been here since you guys started reacting to season 1 and let me tell you, the wait, the build up to this is so worth it. You guys are my fav aot reactors fr 🤩
You can see the point where it totally hits you. So heartbreaking and masterful for a story to pull this off. So amazing and easily a top episode or piece of show out of anything I've ever seen
Remember that when Grisha took Eren to the forest to turn him into a titan he was really mad and treating him in a cold and angry way? I always felt that scene was a bit weird but after I watched this episode it all connected and that treatment and interaction of Grisha with Eren in his final moments was explained
I actually never really noticed that good catch
@@Etphoneholmes it was when he realised that while he was out taking the founder from the royal family his house was destroyed and Carla had already died... And that's why after he told Zeke to stop Eren he still entrusted the founding and the attack titan to Eren
Remember that we also saw Ymir in season 2 in her backstory getting to the paths and she wasn't about to die or badly injured, that kinda goes against your theory
Just when you think this story can't possibly have anything else to show you than repup it goes and gives you episodes like this which you can sit through and start realize how much this change how you saw past episodes and the whole story
I've been waiting sooooo long for you to get to this moment. Finally all the pieces have come together.
Not all pieces have came together...... Not all
The reason why this plot twist works so well is because Isayama had this whole damn thing planned since the beginning
Nah its because Eren went back in time to when Isayama was writing it and was leaning over his shoulder incepting future memories of the plot having already been written to perfection. Lmao
15:56 Eren whispered on ben ear to rip the notes.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ben ripping his precious notebook to shreds upon realising that NOTHING in the show was as it seemed, pure gold
He's just standing there ... menacingly!
I just love this image: Zeke, posessing godly power, is laying on the ground, petrified with fear. Eren, being in chains, stands unwavering and terrifying.
To think that the line of "bc I was born into this world" has been here since season 1
We have made it to the most insane moment in Attack on Titan literally changing everything we’ve known. Edit: F in the Chat for Ben’s notes they have not been doing good since these recent reactions
Best reaction I've seen on any channel. Thank you both. I love this episode and you did it justice.
Grisha has many amazing lines in this episode but one little line always tugs my heartstrings. "My wife, son, and daughter..." He'd only had Mikasa in his life for a year at that point and he cared for her like a daughter. This man, traumatized by the death of his little sister, dared make room in his heart for another little girl. Damn ninjas cutting onions...
After rewatching this with you guys I realized that what the Owl said to Grisha is more clear. When Grisha asks if his hatred for the world and Marley and all that is why he chose him, the Owl responded that it was an aspect. I wonder if Eren also influenced the Owl to choose Grisha to be his dad.
1:39:10 Grisha is telling Zeke to stop Eren because what he saw in Eren future memory is so horrible and he knows it's gonna happen. But at that time, kid Eren didn't have the Attack Titan yet, so Grisha can simply stop Eren by not giving him the power. You have already noticed in the episode that Grisha didn't know Carla's dead because Eren didn't show him all the memories. If you go back to SS3 EP11, you will see that it was kid Eren who reveal Carla's death and that's the moment when Grisha lost his mind. He immediately drag Eren to the forest and gave him the power. It was Eren's plan all along.
Casual reminder that Eren didn't show Grisha anything - the attack titan cannot send memories, Eren didn't plan this.
@@GerblerM , he did, actually. Though not thanks to the Attack Titan but the Founder. Specifically because Zeke made them walk the memories of the past. Eren himself said later he got a chance to show Grisha the future memories most convenient for him.
@@dimaudalow He wasn't in control of the founder then, nor were we ever shown him "sending" memories. Eren was never in control of what Grisha saw - Grisha saw what he did, because it was always like that. If he didn't then Eren would never have ended up in a position to walk through Grisha's memories.
The AoT universe is a fixed and causal system with no free will
@@GerblerMGrisha states that all attack titan users have been guided by a single wielder, and in the very first episode and in the manga adult eren sends kid eren specific memories of the future and end of the series when he was sleeping under the tree (even before kid eren inherited the titan).
@@GerblerM , it's explicitly stated Eren was in control. Zeke said Eren was able to choose the memories he could show Grisha, while Eren himself mentioned it became possible thanks to Zeke using the Founder to walk Grisha's memories.
@Autosave I am so happy you guys have reached this point! @Ben....when you ripped your notes into...OMG!!
This season(4) each episode adds to the previous! Get ready for the next two - They are phenomenal!!
Also, I went back and watched most of Season One yesterday just to see your reaction! Love your channel!
So.. since you’re at this point, a fan theory is adult Eren can be seen in a few spots in season 1. There’s 3 moments that I can think of where this random adult that looks like Eren is in the same area as him but his face is covered up
Can you point out the times? I only caught the one in 1x2 when Armin and Eren are arguing just before Mikasa steps in
@@Etphoneholmes
The kids are on a cart talking and there’s a cloaked figure next to them and Eren actually looks at him
The other is when the Survey Corp return the first time, there’s someone in the front of the crowd watching them walk by
15:02 The true power of Attack Titan as I understand it is "To not be controlled by Founder so that it can oppose it", the "seeing in future" is due to Grisha eventually eating the founder and Eren using the coordinate to send images from past into the future. Hopefully this message is seen by them at some point, I love them and their reactions so much.
I'm so glad I found your channel you two. Watching you guys take this perfect piece of story telling in was something else! All the best to you both!
you guys are 2/3 into 3 of the greatest episodes .... yes , its not over yet
Love that show, and I enjoy even more the way you guys react, deconstruct, interact with each other with such chemistry and respect for each other, and yet with such passion. I've watched 4-5 YTbers react to the whole show, and nothing comes even close to me to what you guys do with it. Thank you for all the time you invest in this and sharing so much with us. It feels wholesome and it warms my soul seeing and hearing you guys 👍🏻❤️
So high quaility reaction, you are catching most of the details of this show 😮
When Grisha said "We were led by our memories all for this moment", he realized that he was standing at the inception of it all. Which explains why Eren tells him "Even after death". As if Grisha continues to serve his purpose trapped in this window of time, on repeat.
And it was only made possible because Zeke intervened.
Masterful storytelling
Omg I was waiting for this and your reaction definitely didn't disappoint! I can't wait to listen to the discussion once I finally get home from school😩 This episode is definitely one of the best episodes of Attack on Titan, it's such an insane twist. I wish I could see the way Isayama's brain works...
HERE WE ARE! This is THE episode I've been waiting since day 1!!
The moment Grisha decided he had to go meet the king of the walls was when kid Eren said “If no one takes the places from the ones who died, all their deaths will be in vain”. That reminded him that he had to complete his mission, otherwise his wife and comrades sacrifice will be meaningless. Also he knew someday he would need to do that, because he knew someday the warriors would break the wall.
Not only one of the best episodes of any show ever but also one of the best reactions ever❤
Goosebumps all over watching it again, it so perfect execute aaah wish I can watch it again for first time
Guys you just cannot make us wait 5 days for the next reaction... This episodes (19, 20 y 21) are like a trilogy, like S3 episodes 16, 17 y 18.
AoT it's a MASTERPIECE.
Guys, Keep Moving Forward
AOT is absolutely masterpieces period.
Wooooooooo boy!!! The moment is here at last! I wish I had a notebook to tear apart when I first watched this show, Ben 😄Although I still feel like I could do that rewatching it lol
Ahh, so excited, have been waiting this the whole day. Love you guys.
Just a friendly reminder, The Owl told Grisha to save Mikasa and Armin and than said he didn’t know who memories these are.
Eren sent him those memories
"Rumbling,Rumbling, Its coming."
Great reaction. I can't wait to watch your reaction to the next episode.
By the way, in my opinion Grisha was very lucky he didn't go for the Founding Titan when he discovered the Reiss hideout, because at that point he wouldn't be facing the inexperienced Frieda, but the experienced Uri.
Brother Uri+Uncle Kenny=💀)
@@Paketovvv Exactly. I had forgotten to mention Kenny, the friend loyal only to Uri.
Zeke: Father has brainwashed you brother, let me save you
Zeke: *Sees the twist*
Eren: I'm the brainwashed one? Ooooooh No brother, I'm the one who does the brainwashing here
Zeke: *Shocked Pikachu face*
This is even longer then the last one and i am very happy!
when you've watched "the world the girl saw", you'd also realize gabi being there at that moment to turn eren's head into a beyblade was also planned so eren can gain his 'other' memories.
Them being able to touch is an EXTRA plot twist on an already huge plot twist. If anyone was watching grisha in that moment they would have seen a dude screaming in the air hugging nothing, but it was an extra twist to it. Zeke felt that hug
15:56 same man, same. When you gotta hype you gotta hype ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Have been waiting quite a while for you guys to get to this episode. Can’t wait for your reaction to the next one!
The best moment when my man tore apart all those notes like Eren tore apart everyone!
If there ever was an episode where we say goodbye to Ben's notebook, it HAD to be this one lmao. That poor books been tossed around and abused so much, RIP 😔.
Also AMAZING post episode discussion, I've rewatched this episode about 5 times with multiple different reactions, but this is the first time I've learnt so many new things that you guys pointed out! Like Eren looking at grishas photo and then all of a sudden grisha is able to see Zeke 👀
15:57 The exact moment where Ben lost his shit
You both have the best AOT reactions! Love the discussions and how invested you guys are! I was the same way when I was watching for the first time. Such a special show.
fun fact: if you go and see the ep1,2 of s1 you can see the adult eren in some scene . thing like this makes show a masterpiece
15:33 Anna was ready to turn 😆
He ripped his fucking book in half! 🤣😭🤣😭🤣😭🤣
This might have been the greatest reaction to this episode I've seen so far!
Best way to summarize, you started the show thinking Eren was the hero, but this was a villain origin story
The brilliant writing choice here is its less of a plot twist and more of a plot reveal. It hits so hard because of how it explains things. Eren was acting odd every since he kissed Historia's hand. Kruger saying to "Save Mikasa and Armin" and so on. We always were given clues there was more going on, so it doesn't so much twist the plot back on you, but reveals the story but to a magnitude that you don't expect. Yes there is some time shennigans, and its been older Eren pulling the strings. Same with the walls, many people suspected there were people outside them. What we didn't expect was the rest of the world being just fine and this little island being the only place really living in a Titan controlled land and that even that wasn't what it seemed. The titans were there to keep people out as much as others in. It encourages suspicion, but the reveal is "Oh you were right to suspect, you just didn't suspect enough you fool!"
This is the reaction that I needed. amazing reaction!
5th time crying while watching the part where Grisha tells Zeke that he loves him .... Grisha arc is the best... the redemption was real .....
I really admire both of you because you spent more than an hour to discuss each episode into depth and show us the best reaction to this show.
And I have never seen the reacter saying so much from his heart "Is it the best show you've ever seen?"
I just let the discussion play out while I was studying for my project, and I was drawn back to this when I hear that cat analogy.. it's bizarre but strangely accurate lmao... Eldians from the walls truly are innocent cats
12:46
Berthold's pose when he saw ymir
This episode is a masterpice god 👏👏one of the best if not the best from AOT
what a masterpiece of an episode
My favorite episode of the show for some reason…finally made it lol
When I first watched this, when Grisha said that he could see the memories of the AT's future inheritors I had this stomach loop moment that reminded me of Seven when Morgan Freemen was trying to push back the cops "John Doe has the upper hand!". It was just the "Oh no what's in the box?!" feeling.
Loving these back to back drops! Haven't even seen the video yet, but this is how uploads should be for a show that isn't currently airing
Sidenote: I'm surprised they didn't connect the dots with Historia kissing Eren's hand. Good thing it's clarified next episode.
If you see that moment in the reaction portion, there's a text at 16:41 at the bottom left at the historia moment where it says ben noticed that and will talk about it next episode.
18:35 Nooo, we need to see the reaction in this gap. They're so much fun. Also, I'm surprised you don't know Isayama, Hajime's name yet (mangaka).
I knew the discussion on this one would be legendary
Hey guys, I saw this comment in an other video and it explains everything that's happened this episode so I though I'd paste it here for everyone who hasn't seen it yet cause there is a lot to unpack and it might get confusing for first time watchers so here it is:
Just to clear something. Time travel is not a thing in AoT. Only the memories and will to act travel. Zeke and eren were there the entire time, but grisha saw Zeke only twice. One was when he was in the basement and the other was outside the cave. Again, it's the memories. Grisha saw everything from eren's pov. The reason being eren was standing behind grisha and looking at Zeke on those two occasions. That's why grisha was able to see zeke only on those two occasions. Another thing, grisha never saw future eren, he just felt his presence. In the 🗝 scene when grisha is looking at future eren, he's basically looking at himself in 3rd person. Also in the cave grisha felt eren's angry presence behind him. Grisha was literally being watched by eren all along and grisha knew this. Lastly, attack titan can see the future is a very oversimplified explanation. Actually it's the memories sent by eren to the past that makes AT see the future. Same happened when eren passed the memories to Kruger (the owl) when se said "you have to save Mikasa and Armin" to grisha. You may think how grisha touched Zeke. It's just that he was hugging the space where zeke was standing. In real time.if anyone had seen grisha would have thought grisha is just hugging air. That scene symbolises a "fake" hug or a "hollow" hug symbolising it's too late for.grisha to.redeem himself as zeke's father. Hope this adds another layer to what you already understood ☺
There are also quite a few twitters threads going a bit more in details so if anyone is interested reply and I'll look up the link again for you :)
Yeah, so everything was shown to Eren the moment he touched Historia's hand back in the final episode of season 3. He touched her hand which activated the founder's ability to look into the past but since he is also the attack titan, his future was shown to Grisha by himself thus, making the season 3 Eren seeing all of his future that was showed to Grisha which then changed him because he know right there and then what his future was and what he needed to do. But this doesn't mean he can see everything because the future that was shown to him was the future that he selected to lead Grisha. So he doesn't have complete knowledge of the future and that is why there are certain things that he is surprised to see.
Was eagerly waiting for this one Yaay!!
"I love how Zeke is just speedrunning the first 3 seasons" That had me laughing haha
The ability of the Attack Titan to share the memories of their successors from the past to the future. It is the combination of the founder titan's ability and the blood of the royal family that has given Eren the ability of the time travel.
Grishia only being alive for one episode and yet his influence and character spans the entire show.
I wrote that comment for another reaction channel to explain what happened here. I share this with you: trust me, this is worth reading and ofc, without spoilers (also, there will not be any other explanation in the following episodes up until the end so...).
Two thousand years ago, the titans were born from the powers of Ymir and in the previous episode, Zeke told us that she is a slave of the royal family for unknown reasons (at least for now). In this episode, Grisha tells us that the attack titan was created to fight the king's self-righteousness and that Frieda (the royal family) was unaware of it. In other words, Ymir would have created the attack titan behind the back of the royal family.
We know that each primordial can see the memories of its predecessors (Porco seeing Marcel's memories or Armin with Bertholdt). But, in this episode, we learned that the attack titan has the power to read the memories of its future holders. This power, only Eren discovered it... When? How?. The response is simple: by mistake. When Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his father killing the royal family but he also saw his father chatting with Zeke and his future self.
The power of the attack titan is not to see the future directly but simply to observe the memories of the next holder if this one accepts it. For example, at the end of the episode, Grisha does not see Zeke, he sees himself, facing Zeke, from Eren's point of view. You can see Eren as a camera where he can choose, whenever he wants, to share his current vision to his predecessors. Then, to "know" the future, he has to share his vision to the predecessors and then see in Grisha's memories what's going to happen.
There can only be one future (obviously). So when Eren decided to share his memories, he writes history, and the future cannot change anymore, otherwise his memories could not be transmitted to others and history would change. It's fate.
When Eren shows his memories, he transmits them to all his predecessors simultaneously. Now you know why Eren was saying "TATAKAE" in front of the mirror: he was actually sharing his memories and using the mirror so that his predecessors can see him.
Try to imagine: the first person gets the attack titan two thousand years ago and sees Eren telling him "fight, if you don't fight, you can't win". Apart from this person, all those who inherited this titan thought they were seeing the memories of the first owner, when in fact, they were seeing the memories of the last owner of this titan.
Exactly, Eren must be the last attack titan, because if there is a new one, he could share is memories to change history and that is not possible.
To be precise, Grisha was also aware of the impact of the future on his time. When Eren shared his memories, by "mistake", he revealed the presence of Zeke. From this moment, Grisha start understanding the power of the attack titan.
Another thing: Now, we know why Eren Kruger said "To save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else, you must see it through.". In fact, everyone who had the attack titan knew they had to save Mikasa and Armin, but they didn't know it was future memories.
-------> To be clear: the moment the attack titan was created by Ymir, the whole story was written and could not be changed. To understand how the story is written, you have to admit that the story is written from the end.
Okay, so Eren wants freedom for him and his friends. When he thinks he got that freedom, he shares his memories and the past can't change. In fact: two thousand years of history has been written at that exact moment. Inevitably, we are going to the future that Eren saw, and no one can change a thing.
If for example, Eren wanted to be a pizza maker (yeah...), the attack titan goal would not be to fight the king's self-righteousness with freedom, but with pizza and the history would have been different. That's because Eren wants freedom that every holder of the attack titan wanted freedom as well.
Eren Kruger told us on the wall that Grisha was "chosen" to have the attack titan. In fact, this titan is transmitted each time to someone revolutionary. Indeed, if someone revolutionary has the attack titan, he will want to bequeath it to someone who shares his revolutionary ideas and that's how the titan has travelled through history to "fight" the royal line.
It's funny to see that Zeke thought that Eren was being manipulated by his father, when we learn that Eren was manipulating two thousand years of history ^^.
The story is actually a loop:
Grisha steals the founding titan -> Grisha gives both titans to Eren -> Eren can attack Marley -> they can "kidnap" Zeke -> they can "touch" each other -> they can travel in Grisha's memory -> Eren can "contact" Grisha through memories and tell him to steal the founding titan -> ... (loop)
This is the ultimate paradox of Attack on Titan. You can't find a beginning to the story except from the end.
Another paradox:
Eren ordered Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> So he's going to look for his daughter (Historia) -> he will get killed by her -> She will become the new Queen of Eldia -> Eren will kiss her hand for the presentation of survey corps medals -> So he can look at his father's memories and see himself ordering to Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> ... (loop)
Here is my last point:
When Zeke wanted to use his scream, Eren said "Wait!". At first sight, we can think that Eren hesitates and does not want to lose the people dear to him (Pixis for example). It's not that at all. Eren tells him to wait a second, so that Falco, his brother (Colt) and Gabi can arrive and do their dialogue. Once Zeke uses his scream, he orders Falco to "defend" Eren. That's what allows Eren's run. Also, without that little second, Gabi wouldn't be there and couldn't shoot Eren.
Since Eren kissed Historia's hand, there are many details like that and I encourage you all to watch SNK again to find out more.
Thanks you for reading this, it is always with great pleasure that I like to discuss this masterpiece that is SNK.
Eren is a genius character. A master manipulator. He is so desensitized that from the time he was a kid, he has wanted to be something more, and boy was he not ready for the road ahead. Life hits you hard, but FUCKING HELL IT HIT THAT BOY LIKE A DAMN SEMI-TRUCK. That reality that you can’t be free until all roots of power must be lost and free will ultimately grants power and oppression to more power and oppression, is not enough for the brain of a young adult. HOLY FUCK.
Had to rewatch this! I love seeing the book be ripped! Please upload the rewatch of attack on titan like a bunch of eps grouped together or something!
16:25 And these are the words Eren Kruger said. This is the Plot Fracture of the Century! 😂