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I saw this for the first time in the fall of 2001 when I along with a group of other youngsters were in front of the draft board. The officer in charge showed us this video and there was also a WW2 veteran who gave us a speech. I kinda liked it.
Thanks Mikko and Somefool for sharing your stories - that must have been a powerful combination for motivation to train hard and well as I realise it must be difficult being conscripted for some people who just don't want to be there - not saying that for you guys - just in general. The most we got were warnings not to join the IRA and watch out for people who may be suicidal on firing ranges :) Although I think some of us were luckier then others as our Quartermaster was the Son of one of the Guys who fought in the Congo with the Irish Army on UNIFIL where 150 Irish Guys fought 10K Congolese, French and Belgian Mercenaries in the 60s and killed over 3K of the enemy and took no deaths - there is a film about it on Netflix called The Siege of Jadotville. So we got to hear that story secondhand as he relayed his fathers accounts.
It was often shown at the end of the basic training phase and the conscripts were tasked to spotting mistakes that can cost lives from it. Like the fact the radio is on the right channel for air situation alerts at the supply base, but nobody is listening to it, so they miss the early warning.
For some reason my reply isn't here - not sure why this is happening continuously now - but regardless I was just saying that it's good that it's used in that manner - the one that stuck out to me was the guy ordered by the Sergeant out on to the street who gets shot.
Great stuff once again. I was shown this in call-ups and also in the beginning of the service. It really hit home and the classroom was quite quiet for a moment, just like in the film. I liked the more gritty feel of the 1998 film. I think a mix of 1998 and 2020 would be great. This was also used as a training aid and the instructors explained several right and wrong actions made by the troops. For example the guys as the depot paid no notice to the airwarning given in the radio. 9:07 It is an AT-mine. Only the top mounting is shown while the detonator is installed. 19:50 Would be great to have enough helicopters for that, it is amoney thing. There is tactics you can use to make ground vehicles harder targets for the enemy. Only camouflage is shown here, propably because of filming things (scattered vehicles during nighttime, driving dark on small and temporary roads would be boring to watch) 21:56 Skiing is considered a basic skill, so all infantry units are capable to use skis if needed.. So yes, we still have skitroops. But to be honest the individual skiing skills of the troopers is quite varied nowadays ;) 23:54 Antitank obstacles and trenches are still a thing and would be used. 26:35 It is the KvKK 62. Forgotten weapons has a good video on it. Keep at it! Hopefully things will work out, they usually do.
Thanks again mate for watching the video - I always appreciate it! Thank you as well again for the information you provided. I definitely prefer the '98 version too but as I mentioned that may be age bias but I did like the whole realism of it in many aspects. I was also glad to hear that the instructors explained the mistakes! Never heard of the KvKK 62 until this video so thanks for the reference where I can find out more about it. I have heard mixed reports from the comments on here.. Have a good day and thanks for the encouragement by the way - I really appreciate it!
2020 is supplementary to this. 1998 was strictly for military use , aiming for deliberate psychological effect 2020 is more instructional civil defense PR-film ,
So about special effects and stuff, the 2020 one edition is almost completely filme on actual millitary exercises and thus has left over the top scenes. Finland doesn't have permanent snow, at least on ground level, and really no ski troops either, since all troops use skis, but some troops definetely train more with skis than others. The Finnish defence strategy is total defence, all routes to the country are defended and the defence line would most likely retreat sowly towards Helsinki, the good thing is that Finland has few lateral roads and many impenetrable forests and lakes so it would be easy to defend and slow down an invasio coming from the east. If said attack would manage to take over Helsinki (at this point the situation would be almos thopeless anyway) the fighting retreat would probably go northwest. That I do not know how the millitary would fight if the southern major cities got taken over my amphibious landings. I suppose helicopters could be useful in Finnish woods but recoursewise it is impossible to have enough fuel and vehicles to transport a huge army via air, and also helicopters are easier to spot, and can't really transport heavy weapons that well. When it comes to mines as far as I know there aren't permanent mine fields (and the leftist soscial democrat first female president Halonen signed the Ottawa treaty banning anti-personnel mines, but we do now have some cluster mine rocket launchers. Finland does have tons of good old anti tank mines tho, and all bridges are designed to be explodable. When it comes to anti-tank infantry weapons among the humble anti-tank mine we have the everymans M76? 66m law light anti tank "bazooka" mostly effective against just lighter tanks, then we have the heavy 112mm bazooka APILAS like a mean older brother of the small law, this is mostly used by mechanized infantry as far as I know, this one does enjoy playing with main battle tanks. Finland also has NLAWS that are partially replacing APILAS, finland doesn't currently have Javelins since in the forested low combat distance grounds of Finland an NLAW is better value for money, tho Finland will probably get Javelins at some point. As a designetade anti tank missile finland uses the Israeli spike (that also has heavier anti ship missiles in use). One of the main anti-tank weapons in Finland are also our own Leopard 2A4 and 2A6 tanks that are mostly meant to be used as an anti armour fighting force, 200 Leos can hold the few roads to east quite well against lower quality yellow nation tanks.
I went to army in Finland in second group in 1998 and this was shown to us. They really hit the spot. The song that is singed in the beginning "Under the Northern Star" and first Ice Hockey gold medal was really emotional. What I remember that time they told us that Finland does not believe it can beat the Russians. Our strategy was to make the invasion so hard and so expensive to them that it wouldn't be smart to invade.
Thanks TheSerub for watching the Video, for your comments and for sharing your experience on how this video impacted you as someone who would have seen it in real time. That was interesting to read. Unfortunately I had to remove the original song as they were blocking the entire video because of a copyright on that. You're strategy is similar to the Irish strategy - we are too small to defeat anyone on the field hence we switched to guerilla tactics back in the War of Independence. An interesting fact on that is Mao Tse Tung and Israel in their six day way named their operations after Michael Collins who devised those Irish Guerilla Tactics such was their impact on modern warfare for good and bad.
Thanks again! I definately agree with you comparing these videos. And 1998 equipments are much more familiar to me. 🫡 It was nice time to serve in Lebanon with Irish! In 2007!👍🙏
And thanks again to you mate for watching my video again. I appreciate it. I'm glad you enjoyed your time with the Irish over there in 2007. Mine was way back in 95 and 97 before the IDF withdrawals after which I believe it quietened down a bit. But I know there were still some casualties . Just last year we lost one guy to a Hezbollah attack.
19:50 FDF didn´t have that time much of helos, so air transport was out of question. Nowadays, I think, the helos are in use mostly for special jaegers in Utti. 22:00 Even in Lapland there is a summer! All 4 seasons, though summer is a little bit shorter than in southern Finland.
Thanks again Timonen for watching my videos and for your comments - much appreciated! not sure why I thought that Lapland was permanent snow - probably too many Santa Claus Movies as a kid :). Have a good rest of your Sunday.
Honestly I think the omission of the beginning part and many others are due to the current trend of them just wanting to make cool action sequences rather than actual story telling. It’s the reason the channel has a decently big worldwide following.
Fair enough mate - I'm just an outsider speculating - to me, the '98 version is more suitable for a movie then the 2020. Thanks for watching and enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
@@JTRetroReactions Yep definitely the 98 version is better and more realistic. Also more hard hitting and deeply patriotic. Love the beginning montage with the beautiful song. Of course the better filming and editing and cooler gear in the new version is also cool, but it's just a bit unrealistic and a few things are a bit silly. Also the lack of practical effect compared to the original are definitely noticeable.
Thanks Cassu for watching my videos again and for your comment. I 100% agree as an outsider - as I spoke about in commentary - I thought the loss of the sense of why you are fighting is a big miss from the 2020 version and as you say, some over the top stuff. For me the 98 version is what would likely happen - of course updated for modern times but the rate of casualties and the use of terrain in the forests and snipers in the Cities etc.
Hey Karl - good to hear from you mate and thanks for watching the Video. Do you like Mr. InBetween if you're in Aussie land now? I love it and think it's one of the best shows ever but the reactions I do to it get very little views. Have a good rest of your day.
No worries mate - I wasn't really shilling - it's just one of the best Shows I have seen and very little interest outside of Australia which is a pity - also I'll give you a sub :)
The LMG at 26:40 was KVKK62 (Kevyt KoneKivääri). It's not in use anymore and many didn't like it, but I did find it quite enjoyable and reliable edit: the mines on the bridge were antitank ones
Just found your videos so my comments are a "bit" delayed. I entered service in January 1999 and saw this video during the first week of basic training. I think it was shown during the "chaplain's lessons" which were actually very little about religion and more about the ethics, morals and psychology of war. I remember it did have an impact on me back then and kinda still does. Which brings us to the comparison of the two versions. And it might be just old geezer in me talking, but I think this older version hits the spot much better. The 2020 version is more like a showcase or recruitment video. FDF has really attracted more attention internationally with their video productions so the target audience is clearly much more non-Finns. That might also be the main reason to omit all the nationalistic stuff from the 2020 version. The biggest issue I had with the new one is exactly that showcase ideology. This one actually shows own casualties, mistakes, difficulty and brutality and doesn't look down on the "potential enemy for the Yellow nation to the East". The new one just says "look how cool we are". Few questions you had in both videos I'd like to offer my answers; 1) we don't get the service weapons to be stored at home. You are probably thinking about Switzerland. We've never had that possibility. All ammo, weapons and gear are stored by the FDF. And not going into details but they are very well dispersed. The mobilization system is very well planned to the smallest detail and people involved in it get trained regularly. There are some rapid response volunteer reserve units that store their personal non-lethal gear at home but everything that goes boom is stored by the FDF. It is basically a legal issue which can't be solved easily or fast. Finns have a lot of civilian guns already so it isn't about that. 2) coastal jaegers are basically marines. I think their beret color is actually the same as what the Royal Marines in UK use. 3) Doctrine issue. If I understood the Irish doctrine correctly, that is our plan B. And it actually has been the plan B since late 1930s. Plan A is to defend and repel the enemy and protect key objectives with everything we got. Plan B (full on guerilla warfare) is only implemented if the country is occupied. Actually in 1944, after the armistice was signed, there was a department of the Finnish army that prepared for guerilla war, hid weapons and munitions all over the country just in case the Soviets would break the armistice and take control of the country. It caused a major diplomatic incident when the information about the operation was leaked (probably by some Soviet-sympathetic civil officials) to the Soviet monitoring commission and they saw that as a breach to the armistice agreement. So, the government was forced to shut it down and prosecute the officers and officials involved in it. Which was an absolute mess. It is a long and fascinating story though, and part of the reason why there were so many Finnish officers in the US Army during 1950-70s, especially in the Special Forces and Rangers. But not going to go into it this time, this comment is long enough as is. The current doctrine is to delay and harass the enemy, control their movement, stop them from capturing key objectives and counter-attack to regain important positions. We have different units for different tasks, some are tasked to do local defense of key targets, some conduct sabotage and guerilla operations against enemy MSRs and C3I, some delay and funnel the enemy spearheads and some are focused on counter-attacks (mostly mechanized units with strong fire support assets). The main doctrine has been the same for decades but the methods have changed and now we have defined more clearly which unit does what and they are equipped accordingly. And obviously now that we are in NATO, the whole doctrine may be revisited and adjusted once again. As for fighting in the cities and towns, my understanding is that if there are still civilians in the area, focus is on evacuation and trying to defend outside the urban area. Urban warfare is very attritional and we don't really have the resources to do it long-term. The enemy won't win the war sitting in towns anyway. 4) coastal gun batteries are not in active use anymore, they are way too vulnerable in modern warfare. Some are still kept as museums, but they are not part of the war-time order of battle anymore. Coastal defense relies on mobile gun and missile batteries, missile ships, minelaying and coastal jaegers. 5) air defense used to rely more on gun batteries back in the 1990s, and the few SAM batteries (also the mobile Crotale and BUK ones we see in this video) were used to defend the capital area and a few strategic objectives. On a tactical level, brigades had MANPADS in addition to AA gun batteries. Nowadays we have more SAM capabilities to cover some operative units as well, but honestly it is still a weakness in the system. The F-35s are planned to fill some gaps (more so how the F-18s did) but I am a bit skeptical of that promise, looking at how things are going in Ukraine. The only good thing is, we kept the AA guns in storage and modernized a lot of them so we have a cost-effective way to fight the drones. 6) helicopters have never been a big part of logistics in Finland. You see them a lot in the promotional videos, but in the pre-NATO era we couldn't assume to have even a contested airspace in war-time so using helicopters on a larger scale would've been a waste of resources since we would've lost them very easily and very fast. Mostly they are tasked to transport the special forces and do peacetime tasks related to the SF elements. Now that we are in NATO, that might change. We might even get assault helicopters, fingers crossed. I hope I gave you some answers you were looking for. You said in one video you served with UNIFIL. I served with UNMEE for a year in 2003-04 and we actually took over from an Irish company stationed in Asmara so I have a bit of experience with the Irish military too. Sadly I can't remember what unit it was but they used MOWAGs so maybe a cavalry unit? I did hope to serve later in UNIFIL too, but then I got kids and that was that... Have a nice day! I'll keep following your channel from now on :)
The group in which I entered the military service was 2/98. It was the first group where some completed 6 months of service. That gun is Assault rifle (rynnäkkökivääri) 62 or RK 62 7,62. The manufacturer is Valmet and later also Sako. You have to remember that the world was very different in 1998. Finland had just received the Hornets and joined the EU. The Soviet Union had collapsed less than ten years ago. Cell phones were just coming in and the internet in its current form was not even in the wildest dreams. But we still didn't trust the Russians. Even in the northernmost parts of Finland it is a real summer. Although a rather short one. Since this is a promotional video, the soldiers are dressed in the best that the house has to offer. We didn't have such good things in Rovaniemi. The same stuff that fathers used to wear in the seventies.
Thanks raven for watching the video and the comments. I hear you on obsolete equipment. I started with a 1960s FN - I was offered an upgrade to a NATO standard Aug Steyr but never took it as I was at the time a platoon sniper and found the heavier weight of the 7.62 ammo for the FN more accurate for longer range shooting - others disagreed with me but I still beat them at competition time. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
@@JTRetroReactions My RK62 was a great gun. It was made in 1969, but when I got it was brand new. It was accurate and easy to maintain. By equipment I meant, for example, clothes. The camouflage M/91 was only allowed to be worn in parades and when visiting home on holidays. We still had a camouflage m/62 in service. The same applied to better combat boots. Fortunately, things are different today, because good equipment makes even miserable things more bearable.
The dog at 11:00 is my family's dog, that was in the care of my father as he was her handler, and the guy handling her is my father, a former Finnish army Staff Sgt. You can see the IED has just a hot dog sausage to attract the dog. Fun fact.
Cool anecdote mate - a super star Dog - I love it! This movie probably holds a lot of found memories for you with your Dad and Family Dog in it! Thanks for sharing your story!
I think you should watch "Tulikaste" (Baptism of fire in English), which was released around the same time as this, but is solely from the perspective of inside a division.
The modern version mostly concentrates on how things advance towards real war and how we respond to all those steps. Regarding the rifle, Wikipedia has a good article on our RK62 7,62 including all subversions like RK95.
Thanks for sharing your story and It makes sense but I preferred the 90s version. If you haven't seen my reaction to that or indeed that video it's worth checking out. The 90s version felt much more realistic to me.
towards to end that was belt fed 7.62 LMG. we had 2 of them in our small signal squad, didn't like them because they didn't operate very well with blank ammo, with live ammo no problems.
Thanks Gibbetto - I have heard from a few people on here that it also have some reliability issues. Someone has provided me with a link to a video on it which I will watch later as it sounds interesting - It's on the forgotten weapons channel I believe. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
In those "old days", FDF conscripts were using the oldest and worst gear and other equipment that had been repaired for a thousand times. Simultaneously, the FDF was hogging all the newest and best gear in the storage, nobody ever using it, until it became obsolete.
Thanks Paanikki for watching the Video and for the comment. Sounds like ever Government Organisation ever mate - same in the Irish army - I started out with a 1960s 7.62 FN and this was in '94.
Loved the video, your commentary was great. These "what if" scenario videos hit really close to home, as I'm currently serving in the FDF. Loving it so far, the training is really hard and tiring-but the harshness is a good reminder of how important our roles are. By the way, do you have any tips for a private in training like me? :)
Thanks mate for watching the video and for your kind comments. I really appreciate it. My tips would be simple as listen to your NCOs particularly those who have UNIFIL service/seen action. My other tip and this is the main one. Try and get specialised in cyber. That will be the focus of modern warfare and likely keep you off the front. In addition it will set you up for a great high earning career outside of the army. Last tip, if you like the army and want to go career speak to an officer you find approachable and ask what's the best path to become an officer and follow their advice. Other than that enjoy it, you'll look back on it fondly when you're older. Oh and don't volunteer for anything unless it benefits you.
@@JTRetroReactions Thank you very much sir for taking the time to write this. I really appreciate it, and will take the advice to heart. All the best to you :)
Same to you mate and best of luck to you in your service - you'll do fine as anyone who takes care to ask questions has their wits and mind about them and contrary to what most people think, the army actually wants Soldiers who can think!
If i remember right The pressure that explodes The Finnish anti tank mine IS 150kg so If you jump on The right spot IT Will Be not so pretty.🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮SLAVA🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
Thanks Tomo for watching the video and the comment. I agree - that's why I preferred it to the 2020 version. I know some commenters have pointed out that they are aimed at different audiences but still, I think the '98 version is superior and more realistic. Have a good evening.
The guns they're using are RK-62's a Finnish variant of the akm platform. The coastal artillery from my understanding seems to be in the process of retirement. A reason for them not showing off stuff like signal jamming and such is probably because these videos are usually meant for conscripts and propaganda rather than a demonstration of our capabilities. The Finnish army doesn't have that many helicopters. Ground transport vehicles they do have loads of and most are pretty well suited for off road. As to why the 2020 video didn't have ski troops is because most if not all the footage in the video was filmed during the last major training exercise the conscripts take part in during their service, referred to as "loppusota" which translates to "final war", these exercises are held twice a year during winter and summer. Conscripts are drafted twice as well in two separate "classes" the winter and summer (class/wave???).
Good gear eh sure there is a bunch of that, but only for the "highspeed guys" ie the more specialized guys, I say this as some units are still using old stuff, ps my gun was from the year 1967. Oh the mines laid on the bridge were at mines.
The machinegun was a KVKK 62 which is a Finnish machinegun designed by Valmet. The reason for the vehicles having sisu written on em is because that happens to be their manufacturer. Which is the only finnish truck manufacturer, they make stuff like the Pasi armored vehicles.
ha ha - I hear you - when I started in the Irish Army - I had an FN 7.62 that was first used in 1960 in the Congo by Irish UN Troops - so I get it mate!
Thanks again mate for sharing that - I have seen SISU trucks over here as well but I never knew what it meant until I watched that movie SISU recently.
This old one is definitely a lot better than the new one. I guess the new one focuses a little more on the impacts on civil society and more "grey zone" activities. This older one is almost exclusively what the soldiers would face, and it does it incredibly well. I've never been to war obviously but this looks close to what I imagine it might be like and similar to what's going on in Ukraine now. For nearing on 3 decades old, it's definitely on point, but perhaps that's because Russia's way of fighting hasn't exactly changed with the times. The mines you thought were AP mines are indeed AT mines. TM65 77 to be exact. What you see there is only the pressure plate. No part of Finland is snow covered around the year. Even in the far north it easily hits +20 to +30 degrees during the summers. There aren't (nor were there) any specialized ski troops, that's just a basic skill expected from every soldier. These days some are better at it than others. Outdoor activities and sports aren't what they used to be. That being said, almost everyone is able to ski okay, but they're certainly not going to the olympics anytime soon. You've asked some questions about how the Finnish army intends to fight and there are videos on that too from 2015 when there was a doctrine "reform" following you guessed it... budget cuts and smaller age groups leading to less troops available. Because of what happened east and southeast of us since then, the spending has gone up significantly but every army suffers from shortages. Anyway what I was trying to say was that this video may be partly outdated by now as well and it's a very very basic overview. Not sure if it's interesting enough for a video but maybe it is. There are subtitles in English as well. It comes in 2 parts, the first explaining the doctrine and concepts and the second is a sort of "combat example" video. Maavoimien uudistettu taistelutapa - Perusteet | Army Doctrine 2015 - Basics Maavoimien uudistettu taistelutapa - Taistelu | Army Doctrine 2015 - Combat
Thanks as always mate for watching and for the additional information - I appreciate it! Thanks also for the recommendations - I have added them to the list. I actually don't know why I thought Lapland was always snow bound - I guess too many Santa Claus movies as a kid :) So you live and learn. Thanks also for the explanation on the skiing skills of all troops and the mines - I never dealt with mines as that was/is an exclusively Sapper skill in the Irish Army which was a different unit to me so pretty useless at identifying them as you can see. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
@@JTRetroReactions That's an interesting difference that mines were only for the sappers in Ireland. In the Finnish army these particular AT mines are part of basic training. Every single soldier of every branch learns their basic use. The TM mines are everywhere. I have heard from an interview with some higher Finnish officer that we have literal millions of them in storage, during peacetime. They are very cheap and simple too. a 10kg block of TNT, a pressure plate and a detonator. What was exclusive to the engineers (like myself) in regards to mines were more advanced mines, advanced minefields and usages, AP mines (before they were banned), learning how to deal with the enemy mines, clearing of mines and the construction and mapping of various minefields and traps.
The 2015 doctrine was abandoned real quick. It relied way too much on fortifications and prepared fighting positions. It was quickly realized there'd almost certainly not be enough time and engineering capacity to make it work. Which is reflected in the 2020 version. Anyway, both doctrines were much influenced by the war in Ukraine (since 2014), and again we're seeing a bunch of surprises and expected things in Ukraine. And now NATO membership as well. So again the Finnish doctrine is changing quickly and much.
It's more to do with size of forces to be honest - we are quite a small army (8-10K professionals) so there aren't enough training officers to go around - so each soldier was very specialised in what they did and Platoons were comprised of those specialists. The thinking again that this was more useful in both Overseas duty - send one Platoon get one specialist with each or in the case of defence to be able to organise Guerilla forces with each of the skills required.
Thanks Jaakko for watching the video and for sharing that information - it was interesting to read about the change / changing in doctrines so I appreciate it! Have a good rest of your Sunday.
And thanks to you eeroron for watching the video. I actually have my reaction to Rukajarven Tie done and the full reaction is up on Patreon. You can get a 7 day free trial by clicking the link below if you want to view it. However, it's proving impossible at the moment to get anything up on RUclips as a Norwegian Distributor keeps blocking me by claiming copyright even though they have no such ability under EU Copyright law - YT doesn't care so I'm unable to move forward to get it up on YT which is a pity as it was a good reaction. Anyways here's the link if you want to check it out! patreon.com/JaysRetroReactions?Link
Hey Mikko thanks for watching the video. If I'm understanding correctly - that was you then? If so, fair play mate - did you get any acting training beforehand?
@@JTRetroReactions I just get order to go there and do what film crew says. I realy hate to be there. Director dont like my acting and he order me run top of big hill and then we try again 🤣.
Ha ha - I hear you mate - The Irish Army was used as extras in Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan - so yeah lots of telling us off in both - in Braveheart it was to ease up on the beating up of each other - in Saving Private Ryan it was about act better despite the hypothermia from being in the Irish Sea in October for 8 hours a day and more sometimes. Anyways, I bet you're glad you are in it and can look back on it now :)
The Finnish army doctrine totally changed between the two videos. The Army Doctrine 2015 has two excellent videos about it in the Defence Forces channel with English subs if you are interested. But still, the whole country will be defended, not letting the enemy into cities in the first place is the aim. There is a lot of forest and trees, especially on the eastern border for the Russian bear to hit it's head against.
Thanks Aquell for watching the videos and the comments. Sure - please let me have the recommendation but it maybe a few weeks before I can get to them as I have a lot of requests at the moment but I can never have enough to be honest!
Thank you for sharing that recommendation. It's already on the list and I will be posting it here after Rukajarven Tie, if I ever get it up as some Norwegian Company is trying to claim ownership of the copyright. Long story. Anyways enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
Thanks for watching the video Petri - not sure why I thought that Lapland was permanent snow - probably too many Santa Claus Movies as a kid :) Interesting fact - the Polar Bear is descended from the Irish Bear they have recently discovered. The Irish Bear is long extinct - along with Wolves they were hunted to extinction due to the threat to live stock. Have a good rest of your Sunday.
If the war was deemed to to last more than 2 weeks, evacuating the adults and children would be reasonable, evacuating the kids and separating them from their parents would have consequences as there were in UK in the 2nd WW. Finland has a magnificent network of civilian defense shelters which can provided for in lapses in air danger, and keeping families together is a priority.
I t hink why trhey removed the cultural thing from the new Taistelukenttä, is because it is meant for a different purpose. It has more emphasis on showing how the war escalates slowly in modern environment. Basically it is the part that was shown as news snippets at the starting of the old video. The new video has a totally different emphasis.
@@JTRetroReactions Back in those times, and I think it's still the same, everyone got very familiar with anti-tank track mine. Regardless of specialty. Trainers loved them because training version is just 10kg block of concrete and it was "fun" to drag them along with everything else you had :-) I think everything else is answered, but the AD missile you asked is Crotale NG, a French missile still in use today, most likely next to retire. There are also Soviet era BUK and Igla manpads shown here - both retired. Oh BTW, the LMG, KvKK 62, comes from the same Czech lineage as BREN - you might be surprisingly familiar with it. And please do the Irish rant video sometime. It's always interesting to hear insiders comments on things we know only superficially from other countries. I was surprised by many things when I finally visited Ireland just before pandemic - hope I get to come back someday. Take care.
Thanks Samul for watching the video and the comments and also for the information we shared. As I mentioned in another comment due to the size of our Army, a Platoon was compromised of specialists, i.e. a radio guy, a sapper guy, a medic, a sniper etc. etc. With a small 8-10k army we have no choice. Plus it works better for overseas missions and for guerilla tactics which our defence would be so that units can operate independent of each other. I will do the Irish rant, I promise, I will be just waiting for the backlash from the officers - the enlisted men will be fine with it :)
What I find the 2020 version lacks is all and everything what the War in Ukraine changed on the battlefield. Our readiness plans aren't changed, and what the 2020 version adressed was the fighting doctrine. The element of personalized experience wasn't the main focus. Having conscripts act roles is also rather gringe, IMO....😅 Ukraine war brought FPV drones with a lethal capacity as a perminent element among group level action. We have long waited for the AP mine replacement which we were promised would come immediately, but it took them 20 years as it seems. Ottawa agreement was a deadly mistake. We were tought to secure our operation with AP mines, pipe bombs/charges and claymores. I mean it's not difficult to fashion pipe charges on the field if you've premade the pipes with screw caps, but still, that would be a "warcrime" under the current modus....😂 The modern element should be made into a renewed Battlefield version. When you look into how Russia began the war in Ukraine, it's eerily similar how the 2020 saw the same prewar actions play out, and how they were rebuffed. The way the RuZZishitz filth came from the North and were countered and then forced away, how they infiltrated the Hostomel Airport and sent SOF units to Kiev.... ..it's also the same way they attacked during the Winter war. The most critical fronts which we won early on were the Battles around Suomussalmi middle of the country and the Battle of Pelkosenniemi up in Lapland Need to add that we are already in a wartime economy in Finland and the private sector has been activated for war production.
Thanks Lumi for watching the video and for sharing your perspective. I agree with a lot of what you said, as an outsider, and you will see if you look through the comments on this and the 2020 video that I talk about drone warfare a lot and how now Russia and Ukraine are the two leading forces in this and counter drone warfare as well. You will also see in those comments that I agree with you on the Ottawa Treaty - again just speaking from an outside perspective. Another thing I mentioned as well is not having weapons at home - for me - again as an outsider - that's a serious strategic risk as even though weapons depots are classified, it only takes one high level traitor to compromise a lot of your defence plans. The only thing I would disagree with and this is purely from a selfish point of view is the use of conscripts / army in the videos as I was in the Irish Army when we were used to film Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan :) Have a good rest of your day.
Sorry that I've told you this before but you need to fix your audio levels. It's not clipping this time but the music that you replaced the original is way too loud.
I have never actually seen this one before and im from Finland.. In the beginning they showed seasons and important times, even midsummer fire. I dont think it has anything to do with woke culture they didnt in the new video. We finns shouldnt be reminded of what we have like that anyway? :D If you understand what i mean. But yes the country is getting more woke etc but thats not related to the videos
Hey spoonzor - thanks for watching the video mate. Thanks for the explanation as well. You guys have a similar history to ours and you can see that in my latest video if you're not aware. But I'm sure you can understand why I was wondering if it was the woke thing - given the current trend around Europe generally to downplay any national pride as much as possible in favour of diversity etc. But it's good to hear that was not the reason.
Sorry but that is one of the most foolish comments I have read in a while. By your logic you can't show weapons, IFVs, Tanks etc. as it would be breaking OpSec - it would be easy to show EW without showing what you do - the same as everything else they showed in both videos. They do that in Movies all of the time!
@@JTRetroReactions FDF videos rarely show anything modern/special stuff, all are just stuff which all conscripts can see or which are well known by the public. more specialized stuff is not on these videos.
Absolutely freeze and to be expected. You don't reveal your plans in public - in fact I would even go so far to say that some of the videos may be deliberately misleading in case the enemy is viewing, which of course they are.
I'm anti tank sergeant at FDF reserve. Maybe I know something. I have practiced that for years. At civil, I'm an IT-Specialist. Worked at IBM for years. Maybe I'm only stupid?
I was head of IT for JP Morgan Europe and Head of Cyber Inspection for the Central Bank of Ireland and finished up an Officer in the Professional Irish Army starting from a Private with several UNIFIL tours- maybe I know something too :)
Hey all - if anyone is interested in checking out my Patreon where you can get access to all of my full length reactions, plus access to exclusives such as Rukajarven Tie and Band of Brothers - you can get a 7 day free trial by clicking the link below. Cheers.
patreon.com/JaysRetroReactions?Link
I saw this for the first time in the fall of 2001 when I along with a group of other youngsters were in front of the draft board. The officer in charge showed us this video and there was also a WW2 veteran who gave us a speech. I kinda liked it.
Same here
Thanks Mikko and Somefool for sharing your stories - that must have been a powerful combination for motivation to train hard and well as I realise it must be difficult being conscripted for some people who just don't want to be there - not saying that for you guys - just in general. The most we got were warnings not to join the IRA and watch out for people who may be suicidal on firing ranges :) Although I think some of us were luckier then others as our Quartermaster was the Son of one of the Guys who fought in the Congo with the Irish Army on UNIFIL where 150 Irish Guys fought 10K Congolese, French and Belgian Mercenaries in the 60s and killed over 3K of the enemy and took no deaths - there is a film about it on Netflix called The Siege of Jadotville. So we got to hear that story secondhand as he relayed his fathers accounts.
It was often shown at the end of the basic training phase and the conscripts were tasked to spotting mistakes that can cost lives from it. Like the fact the radio is on the right channel for air situation alerts at the supply base, but nobody is listening to it, so they miss the early warning.
For some reason my reply isn't here - not sure why this is happening continuously now - but regardless I was just saying that it's good that it's used in that manner - the one that stuck out to me was the guy ordered by the Sergeant out on to the street who gets shot.
Great stuff once again.
I was shown this in call-ups and also in the beginning of the service. It really hit home and the classroom was quite quiet for a moment, just like in the film. I liked the more gritty feel of the 1998 film. I think a mix of 1998 and 2020 would be great.
This was also used as a training aid and the instructors explained several right and wrong actions made by the troops. For example the guys as the depot paid no notice to the airwarning given in the radio.
9:07 It is an AT-mine. Only the top mounting is shown while the detonator is installed.
19:50 Would be great to have enough helicopters for that, it is amoney thing. There is tactics you can use to make ground vehicles harder targets for the enemy. Only camouflage is shown here, propably because of filming things (scattered vehicles during nighttime, driving dark on small and temporary roads would be boring to watch)
21:56 Skiing is considered a basic skill, so all infantry units are capable to use skis if needed.. So yes, we still have skitroops. But to be honest the individual skiing skills of the troopers is quite varied nowadays ;)
23:54 Antitank obstacles and trenches are still a thing and would be used.
26:35 It is the KvKK 62. Forgotten weapons has a good video on it.
Keep at it! Hopefully things will work out, they usually do.
Thanks again mate for watching the video - I always appreciate it! Thank you as well again for the information you provided. I definitely prefer the '98 version too but as I mentioned that may be age bias but I did like the whole realism of it in many aspects. I was also glad to hear that the instructors explained the mistakes! Never heard of the KvKK 62 until this video so thanks for the reference where I can find out more about it. I have heard mixed reports from the comments on here.. Have a good day and thanks for the encouragement by the way - I really appreciate it!
2020 is supplementary to this.
1998 was strictly for military use , aiming for deliberate psychological effect
2020 is more instructional civil defense PR-film ,
Fair enough mate - I only had the videos to go off from an outside perspective but as you mention, context is everything
So about special effects and stuff, the 2020 one edition is almost completely filme on actual millitary exercises and thus has left over the top scenes.
Finland doesn't have permanent snow, at least on ground level, and really no ski troops either, since all troops use skis, but some troops definetely train more with skis than others.
The Finnish defence strategy is total defence, all routes to the country are defended and the defence line would most likely retreat sowly towards Helsinki, the good thing is that Finland has few lateral roads and many impenetrable forests and lakes so it would be easy to defend and slow down an invasio coming from the east. If said attack would manage to take over Helsinki (at this point the situation would be almos thopeless anyway) the fighting retreat would probably go northwest. That I do not know how the millitary would fight if the southern major cities got taken over my amphibious landings.
I suppose helicopters could be useful in Finnish woods but recoursewise it is impossible to have enough fuel and vehicles to transport a huge army via air, and also helicopters are easier to spot, and can't really transport heavy weapons that well.
When it comes to mines as far as I know there aren't permanent mine fields (and the leftist soscial democrat first female president Halonen signed the Ottawa treaty banning anti-personnel mines, but we do now have some cluster mine rocket launchers. Finland does have tons of good old anti tank mines tho, and all bridges are designed to be explodable.
When it comes to anti-tank infantry weapons among the humble anti-tank mine we have the everymans M76? 66m law light anti tank "bazooka" mostly effective against just lighter tanks, then we have the heavy 112mm bazooka APILAS like a mean older brother of the small law, this is mostly used by mechanized infantry as far as I know, this one does enjoy playing with main battle tanks. Finland also has NLAWS that are partially replacing APILAS, finland doesn't currently have Javelins since in the forested low combat distance grounds of Finland an NLAW is better value for money, tho Finland will probably get Javelins at some point. As a designetade anti tank missile finland uses the Israeli spike (that also has heavier anti ship missiles in use). One of the main anti-tank weapons in Finland are also our own Leopard 2A4 and 2A6 tanks that are mostly meant to be used as an anti armour fighting force, 200 Leos can hold the few roads to east quite well against lower quality yellow nation tanks.
Thanks Jaggarz again for sharing all of that information - that was interesting to read so I appreciate it! Have a good rest of your Sunday!
@@JTRetroReactions Thank you, and also sorry for all the typos, wrote that on my phone quite quickly and autocorrect is what it is sometimes
No worries mate I answer most comments on my phone so have the same issue.
@@JTRetroReactionsyou really red it ? 😄
I went to army in Finland in second group in 1998 and this was shown to us. They really hit the spot. The song that is singed in the beginning "Under the Northern Star" and first Ice Hockey gold medal was really emotional. What I remember that time they told us that Finland does not believe it can beat the Russians. Our strategy was to make the invasion so hard and so expensive to them that it wouldn't be smart to invade.
Thanks TheSerub for watching the Video, for your comments and for sharing your experience on how this video impacted you as someone who would have seen it in real time. That was interesting to read. Unfortunately I had to remove the original song as they were blocking the entire video because of a copyright on that. You're strategy is similar to the Irish strategy - we are too small to defeat anyone on the field hence we switched to guerilla tactics back in the War of Independence. An interesting fact on that is Mao Tse Tung and Israel in their six day way named their operations after Michael Collins who devised those Irish Guerilla Tactics such was their impact on modern warfare for good and bad.
Thanks again! I definately agree with you comparing these videos. And 1998 equipments are much more familiar to me. 🫡
It was nice time to serve in Lebanon with Irish! In 2007!👍🙏
And thanks again to you mate for watching my video again. I appreciate it. I'm glad you enjoyed your time with the Irish over there in 2007. Mine was way back in 95 and 97 before the IDF withdrawals after which I believe it quietened down a bit. But I know there were still some casualties . Just last year we lost one guy to a Hezbollah attack.
19:50 FDF didn´t have that time much of helos, so air transport was out of question. Nowadays, I think, the helos are in use mostly for special jaegers in Utti. 22:00 Even in Lapland there is a summer! All 4 seasons, though summer is a little bit shorter than in southern Finland.
Thanks again Timonen for watching my videos and for your comments - much appreciated! not sure why I thought that Lapland was permanent snow - probably too many Santa Claus Movies as a kid :). Have a good rest of your Sunday.
Honestly I think the omission of the beginning part and many others are due to the current trend of them just wanting to make cool action sequences rather than actual story telling.
It’s the reason the channel has a decently big worldwide following.
Fair enough mate - I'm just an outsider speculating - to me, the '98 version is more suitable for a movie then the 2020. Thanks for watching and enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
@@JTRetroReactions Yep definitely the 98 version is better and more realistic. Also more hard hitting and deeply patriotic. Love the beginning montage with the beautiful song.
Of course the better filming and editing and cooler gear in the new version is also cool, but it's just a bit unrealistic and a few things are a bit silly. Also the lack of practical effect compared to the original are definitely noticeable.
Thanks Cassu for watching my videos again and for your comment. I 100% agree as an outsider - as I spoke about in commentary - I thought the loss of the sense of why you are fighting is a big miss from the 2020 version and as you say, some over the top stuff. For me the 98 version is what would likely happen - of course updated for modern times but the rate of casualties and the use of terrain in the forests and snipers in the Cities etc.
Yeah… I was there in ‘91 for my national service. Greetings from Karl in Australia.
Hey Karl - good to hear from you mate and thanks for watching the Video. Do you like Mr. InBetween if you're in Aussie land now? I love it and think it's one of the best shows ever but the reactions I do to it get very little views. Have a good rest of your day.
@@JTRetroReactionsHey! Karl here…have not seen that show, too busy with my YT subs.😊
No worries mate - I wasn't really shilling - it's just one of the best Shows I have seen and very little interest outside of Australia which is a pity - also I'll give you a sub :)
The LMG at 26:40 was KVKK62 (Kevyt KoneKivääri). It's not in use anymore and many didn't like it, but I did find it quite enjoyable and reliable
edit: the mines on the bridge were antitank ones
Thanks for the information and for watching the video. I appreciate it
Just found your videos so my comments are a "bit" delayed. I entered service in January 1999 and saw this video during the first week of basic training. I think it was shown during the "chaplain's lessons" which were actually very little about religion and more about the ethics, morals and psychology of war. I remember it did have an impact on me back then and kinda still does. Which brings us to the comparison of the two versions. And it might be just old geezer in me talking, but I think this older version hits the spot much better. The 2020 version is more like a showcase or recruitment video. FDF has really attracted more attention internationally with their video productions so the target audience is clearly much more non-Finns. That might also be the main reason to omit all the nationalistic stuff from the 2020 version. The biggest issue I had with the new one is exactly that showcase ideology. This one actually shows own casualties, mistakes, difficulty and brutality and doesn't look down on the "potential enemy for the Yellow nation to the East". The new one just says "look how cool we are".
Few questions you had in both videos I'd like to offer my answers;
1) we don't get the service weapons to be stored at home. You are probably thinking about Switzerland. We've never had that possibility. All ammo, weapons and gear are stored by the FDF. And not going into details but they are very well dispersed. The mobilization system is very well planned to the smallest detail and people involved in it get trained regularly. There are some rapid response volunteer reserve units that store their personal non-lethal gear at home but everything that goes boom is stored by the FDF. It is basically a legal issue which can't be solved easily or fast. Finns have a lot of civilian guns already so it isn't about that.
2) coastal jaegers are basically marines. I think their beret color is actually the same as what the Royal Marines in UK use.
3) Doctrine issue. If I understood the Irish doctrine correctly, that is our plan B. And it actually has been the plan B since late 1930s. Plan A is to defend and repel the enemy and protect key objectives with everything we got. Plan B (full on guerilla warfare) is only implemented if the country is occupied. Actually in 1944, after the armistice was signed, there was a department of the Finnish army that prepared for guerilla war, hid weapons and munitions all over the country just in case the Soviets would break the armistice and take control of the country. It caused a major diplomatic incident when the information about the operation was leaked (probably by some Soviet-sympathetic civil officials) to the Soviet monitoring commission and they saw that as a breach to the armistice agreement. So, the government was forced to shut it down and prosecute the officers and officials involved in it. Which was an absolute mess. It is a long and fascinating story though, and part of the reason why there were so many Finnish officers in the US Army during 1950-70s, especially in the Special Forces and Rangers. But not going to go into it this time, this comment is long enough as is.
The current doctrine is to delay and harass the enemy, control their movement, stop them from capturing key objectives and counter-attack to regain important positions. We have different units for different tasks, some are tasked to do local defense of key targets, some conduct sabotage and guerilla operations against enemy MSRs and C3I, some delay and funnel the enemy spearheads and some are focused on counter-attacks (mostly mechanized units with strong fire support assets). The main doctrine has been the same for decades but the methods have changed and now we have defined more clearly which unit does what and they are equipped accordingly. And obviously now that we are in NATO, the whole doctrine may be revisited and adjusted once again. As for fighting in the cities and towns, my understanding is that if there are still civilians in the area, focus is on evacuation and trying to defend outside the urban area. Urban warfare is very attritional and we don't really have the resources to do it long-term. The enemy won't win the war sitting in towns anyway.
4) coastal gun batteries are not in active use anymore, they are way too vulnerable in modern warfare. Some are still kept as museums, but they are not part of the war-time order of battle anymore. Coastal defense relies on mobile gun and missile batteries, missile ships, minelaying and coastal jaegers.
5) air defense used to rely more on gun batteries back in the 1990s, and the few SAM batteries (also the mobile Crotale and BUK ones we see in this video) were used to defend the capital area and a few strategic objectives. On a tactical level, brigades had MANPADS in addition to AA gun batteries. Nowadays we have more SAM capabilities to cover some operative units as well, but honestly it is still a weakness in the system. The F-35s are planned to fill some gaps (more so how the F-18s did) but I am a bit skeptical of that promise, looking at how things are going in Ukraine. The only good thing is, we kept the AA guns in storage and modernized a lot of them so we have a cost-effective way to fight the drones.
6) helicopters have never been a big part of logistics in Finland. You see them a lot in the promotional videos, but in the pre-NATO era we couldn't assume to have even a contested airspace in war-time so using helicopters on a larger scale would've been a waste of resources since we would've lost them very easily and very fast. Mostly they are tasked to transport the special forces and do peacetime tasks related to the SF elements. Now that we are in NATO, that might change. We might even get assault helicopters, fingers crossed.
I hope I gave you some answers you were looking for. You said in one video you served with UNIFIL. I served with UNMEE for a year in 2003-04 and we actually took over from an Irish company stationed in Asmara so I have a bit of experience with the Irish military too. Sadly I can't remember what unit it was but they used MOWAGs so maybe a cavalry unit? I did hope to serve later in UNIFIL too, but then I got kids and that was that...
Have a nice day! I'll keep following your channel from now on :)
The group in which I entered the military service was 2/98. It was the first group where some completed 6 months of service.
That gun is Assault rifle (rynnäkkökivääri) 62 or RK 62 7,62. The manufacturer is Valmet and later also Sako.
You have to remember that the world was very different in 1998. Finland had just received the Hornets and joined the EU. The Soviet Union had collapsed less than ten years ago. Cell phones were just coming in and the internet in its current form was not even in the wildest dreams. But we still didn't trust the Russians.
Even in the northernmost parts of Finland it is a real summer. Although a rather short one.
Since this is a promotional video, the soldiers are dressed in the best that the house has to offer. We didn't have such good things in Rovaniemi. The same stuff that fathers used to wear in the seventies.
Thanks raven for watching the video and the comments. I hear you on obsolete equipment. I started with a 1960s FN - I was offered an upgrade to a NATO standard Aug Steyr but never took it as I was at the time a platoon sniper and found the heavier weight of the 7.62 ammo for the FN more accurate for longer range shooting - others disagreed with me but I still beat them at competition time. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
@@JTRetroReactions My RK62 was a great gun. It was made in 1969, but when I got it was brand new. It was accurate and easy to maintain. By equipment I meant, for example, clothes. The camouflage M/91 was only allowed to be worn in parades and when visiting home on holidays. We still had a camouflage m/62 in service. The same applied to better combat boots. Fortunately, things are different today, because good equipment makes even miserable things more bearable.
Very true mate. My FN that I was issued with, I loved that gun. That FN was a 1962 model but tough, didn't need much cleaning, accurate but heavy
That AT bazooka was an 66 kkes 88. Single use rocket.
Thanks again mate for the information - much appreciated!
@@JTRetroReactions 66KES88 is a Finnish model name. It is a modernised version of US M72LAW and made by Raufoss in Norway.
A
Thanks mate for sharing that extras information with me. Much appreciated
The dog at 11:00 is my family's dog, that was in the care of my father as he was her handler, and the guy handling her is my father, a former Finnish army Staff Sgt.
You can see the IED has just a hot dog sausage to attract the dog. Fun fact.
Cool anecdote mate - a super star Dog - I love it! This movie probably holds a lot of found memories for you with your Dad and Family Dog in it! Thanks for sharing your story!
I think you should watch "Tulikaste" (Baptism of fire in English), which was released around the same time as this, but is solely from the perspective of inside a division.
Thanks for watching the video and the recommendation K3ntry - much appreciated! Is is on youtube?
@@JTRetroReactions It can be found on the Finnish Defence Forces youtube channel
Thanks mate - I'll check it out! Enjoy the rest of your Sunday!
Finland has never had any special "ski troops" because skiing is considered a basic method of moving of every soldier in wintertime.
Okay. Thanks for letting me know and for watching the video.
No, Finland is not covered in snow all year round, not even the northernmost parts.
Thanks for watching and the comment. I know mate - I was just joking - I have been to Finland before with work.
Every soldier can ski in finland
Makes sense mate but I just wanted to check rather then assume a stereotype.
The modern version mostly concentrates on how things advance towards real war and how we respond to all those steps.
Regarding the rifle, Wikipedia has a good article on our RK62 7,62 including all subversions like RK95.
Thanks for the information and for watching the video. I appreciate it
I went to the army in 2010 and they showed us this
Thanks for sharing your story and It makes sense but I preferred the 90s version. If you haven't seen my reaction to that or indeed that video it's worth checking out. The 90s version felt much more realistic to me.
They showed exactly this 90s version
Cool - thanks for letting me know. Cheers.
towards to end that was belt fed 7.62 LMG. we had 2 of them in our small signal squad, didn't like them because they didn't operate very well with blank ammo, with live ammo no problems.
Thanks Gibbetto - I have heard from a few people on here that it also have some reliability issues. Someone has provided me with a link to a video on it which I will watch later as it sounds interesting - It's on the forgotten weapons channel I believe. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
have a lovely day@@JTRetroReactions
Thanks mate - will do.
In those "old days", FDF conscripts were using the oldest and worst gear and other equipment that had been repaired for a thousand times.
Simultaneously, the FDF was hogging all the newest and best gear in the storage, nobody ever using it, until it became obsolete.
Thanks Paanikki for watching the Video and for the comment. Sounds like ever Government Organisation ever mate - same in the Irish army - I started out with a 1960s 7.62 FN and this was in '94.
Loved the video, your commentary was great.
These "what if" scenario videos hit really close to home, as I'm currently serving in the FDF.
Loving it so far, the training is really hard and tiring-but the harshness is a good reminder of how important our roles are.
By the way, do you have any tips for a private in training like me? :)
Thanks mate for watching the video and for your kind comments. I really appreciate it. My tips would be simple as listen to your NCOs particularly those who have UNIFIL service/seen action.
My other tip and this is the main one. Try and get specialised in cyber. That will be the focus of modern warfare and likely keep you off the front. In addition it will set you up for a great high earning career outside of the army.
Last tip, if you like the army and want to go career speak to an officer you find approachable and ask what's the best path to become an officer and follow their advice.
Other than that enjoy it, you'll look back on it fondly when you're older. Oh and don't volunteer for anything unless it benefits you.
@@JTRetroReactions Thank you very much sir for taking the time to write this. I really appreciate it, and will take the advice to heart. All the best to you :)
Same to you mate and best of luck to you in your service - you'll do fine as anyone who takes care to ask questions has their wits and mind about them and contrary to what most people think, the army actually wants Soldiers who can think!
Mines are 10Kg TNT so maeby dont want to jump one of them
If i remember right The pressure that explodes The Finnish anti tank mine IS 150kg so If you jump on The right spot IT Will Be not so pretty.🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮SLAVA🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
This is more realistic and doesn’t glorify war which in return forces the conscipts take the training more seriously. War never changes.
Thanks Tomo for watching the video and the comment. I agree - that's why I preferred it to the 2020 version. I know some commenters have pointed out that they are aimed at different audiences but still, I think the '98 version is superior and more realistic. Have a good evening.
The guns they're using are RK-62's a Finnish variant of the akm platform. The coastal artillery from my understanding seems to be in the process of retirement. A reason for them not showing off stuff like signal jamming and such is probably because these videos are usually meant for conscripts and propaganda rather than a demonstration of our capabilities. The Finnish army doesn't have that many helicopters. Ground transport vehicles they do have loads of and most are pretty well suited for off road. As to why the 2020 video didn't have ski troops is because most if not all the footage in the video was filmed during the last major training exercise the conscripts take part in during their service, referred to as "loppusota" which translates to "final war", these exercises are held twice a year during winter and summer. Conscripts are drafted twice as well in two separate "classes" the winter and summer (class/wave???).
Good gear eh sure there is a bunch of that, but only for the "highspeed guys" ie the more specialized guys, I say this as some units are still using old stuff, ps my gun was from the year 1967. Oh the mines laid on the bridge were at mines.
The machinegun was a KVKK 62 which is a Finnish machinegun designed by Valmet. The reason for the vehicles having sisu written on em is because that happens to be their manufacturer. Which is the only finnish truck manufacturer, they make stuff like the Pasi armored vehicles.
Thanks for watching mate and for sharing that - it was interesting to read and makes sense in the context of the video - I appreciate it!
ha ha - I hear you - when I started in the Irish Army - I had an FN 7.62 that was first used in 1960 in the Congo by Irish UN Troops - so I get it mate!
Thanks again mate for sharing that - I have seen SISU trucks over here as well but I never knew what it meant until I watched that movie SISU recently.
This old one is definitely a lot better than the new one. I guess the new one focuses a little more on the impacts on civil society and more "grey zone" activities. This older one is almost exclusively what the soldiers would face, and it does it incredibly well. I've never been to war obviously but this looks close to what I imagine it might be like and similar to what's going on in Ukraine now.
For nearing on 3 decades old, it's definitely on point, but perhaps that's because Russia's way of fighting hasn't exactly changed with the times.
The mines you thought were AP mines are indeed AT mines. TM65 77 to be exact. What you see there is only the pressure plate.
No part of Finland is snow covered around the year. Even in the far north it easily hits +20 to +30 degrees during the summers. There aren't (nor were there) any specialized ski troops, that's just a basic skill expected from every soldier. These days some are better at it than others. Outdoor activities and sports aren't what they used to be. That being said, almost everyone is able to ski okay, but they're certainly not going to the olympics anytime soon.
You've asked some questions about how the Finnish army intends to fight and there are videos on that too from 2015 when there was a doctrine "reform" following you guessed it... budget cuts and smaller age groups leading to less troops available. Because of what happened east and southeast of us since then, the spending has gone up significantly but every army suffers from shortages.
Anyway what I was trying to say was that this video may be partly outdated by now as well and it's a very very basic overview. Not sure if it's interesting enough for a video but maybe it is. There are subtitles in English as well.
It comes in 2 parts, the first explaining the doctrine and concepts and the second is a sort of "combat example" video.
Maavoimien uudistettu taistelutapa - Perusteet | Army Doctrine 2015 - Basics
Maavoimien uudistettu taistelutapa - Taistelu | Army Doctrine 2015 - Combat
Thanks as always mate for watching and for the additional information - I appreciate it! Thanks also for the recommendations - I have added them to the list. I actually don't know why I thought Lapland was always snow bound - I guess too many Santa Claus movies as a kid :) So you live and learn. Thanks also for the explanation on the skiing skills of all troops and the mines - I never dealt with mines as that was/is an exclusively Sapper skill in the Irish Army which was a different unit to me so pretty useless at identifying them as you can see. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
@@JTRetroReactions That's an interesting difference that mines were only for the sappers in Ireland.
In the Finnish army these particular AT mines are part of basic training. Every single soldier of every branch learns their basic use. The TM mines are everywhere. I have heard from an interview with some higher Finnish officer that we have literal millions of them in storage, during peacetime.
They are very cheap and simple too. a 10kg block of TNT, a pressure plate and a detonator.
What was exclusive to the engineers (like myself) in regards to mines were more advanced mines, advanced minefields and usages, AP mines (before they were banned), learning how to deal with the enemy mines, clearing of mines and the construction and mapping of various minefields and traps.
The 2015 doctrine was abandoned real quick. It relied way too much on fortifications and prepared fighting positions. It was quickly realized there'd almost certainly not be enough time and engineering capacity to make it work. Which is reflected in the 2020 version. Anyway, both doctrines were much influenced by the war in Ukraine (since 2014), and again we're seeing a bunch of surprises and expected things in Ukraine. And now NATO membership as well. So again the Finnish doctrine is changing quickly and much.
It's more to do with size of forces to be honest - we are quite a small army (8-10K professionals) so there aren't enough training officers to go around - so each soldier was very specialised in what they did and Platoons were comprised of those specialists. The thinking again that this was more useful in both Overseas duty - send one Platoon get one specialist with each or in the case of defence to be able to organise Guerilla forces with each of the skills required.
Thanks Jaakko for watching the video and for sharing that information - it was interesting to read about the change / changing in doctrines so I appreciate it! Have a good rest of your Sunday.
Thanks again for the reaction. Please see the movie "Rukajärven tie"
And thanks to you eeroron for watching the video. I actually have my reaction to Rukajarven Tie done and the full reaction is up on Patreon. You can get a 7 day free trial by clicking the link below if you want to view it. However, it's proving impossible at the moment to get anything up on RUclips as a Norwegian Distributor keeps blocking me by claiming copyright even though they have no such ability under EU Copyright law - YT doesn't care so I'm unable to move forward to get it up on YT which is a pity as it was a good reaction. Anyways here's the link if you want to check it out!
patreon.com/JaysRetroReactions?Link
Time 20:21(this video) it's my turn to act 😎
Hey Mikko thanks for watching the video. If I'm understanding correctly - that was you then? If so, fair play mate - did you get any acting training beforehand?
@@JTRetroReactions I just get order to go there and do what film crew says. I realy hate to be there. Director dont like my acting and he order me run top of big hill and then we try again 🤣.
Ha ha - I hear you mate - The Irish Army was used as extras in Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan - so yeah lots of telling us off in both - in Braveheart it was to ease up on the beating up of each other - in Saving Private Ryan it was about act better despite the hypothermia from being in the Irish Sea in October for 8 hours a day and more sometimes.
Anyways, I bet you're glad you are in it and can look back on it now :)
The Finnish army doctrine totally changed between the two videos. The Army Doctrine 2015 has two excellent videos about it in the Defence Forces channel with English subs if you are interested. But still, the whole country will be defended, not letting the enemy into cities in the first place is the aim. There is a lot of forest and trees, especially on the eastern border for the Russian bear to hit it's head against.
Thanks Aquell for watching the videos and the comments. Sure - please let me have the recommendation but it maybe a few weeks before I can get to them as I have a lot of requests at the moment but I can never have enough to be honest!
You might like this movie: "1944: The Final Defence (Tali-Ihantala 2007) [1080p] - full movie with English subtitles".
Thank you for sharing that recommendation. It's already on the list and I will be posting it here after Rukajarven Tie, if I ever get it up as some Norwegian Company is trying to claim ownership of the copyright. Long story. Anyways enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
We don't have ski trooos. Everyone have skis and know how to ski. And we don't have permanent snow areas. And no polar bears eighter
Thanks for watching the video Petri - not sure why I thought that Lapland was permanent snow - probably too many Santa Claus Movies as a kid :) Interesting fact - the Polar Bear is descended from the Irish Bear they have recently discovered. The Irish Bear is long extinct - along with Wolves they were hunted to extinction due to the threat to live stock. Have a good rest of your Sunday.
@@JTRetroReactions only harbour witch was ice free was in Petsamo shore of artic sea. And Finland lost it on soviet union in ww2.
Sorry to hear that. Who knows, one day it may return home
If the war was deemed to to last more than 2 weeks, evacuating the adults and children would be reasonable, evacuating the kids and separating them from their parents would have consequences as there were in UK in the 2nd WW. Finland has a magnificent network of civilian defense shelters which can provided for in lapses in air danger, and keeping families together is a priority.
Thanks for watching and for the comment. That makes sense given that there is shelters built
I t hink why trhey removed the cultural thing from the new Taistelukenttä, is because it is meant for a different purpose. It has more emphasis on showing how the war escalates slowly in modern environment. Basically it is the part that was shown as news snippets at the starting of the old video. The new video has a totally different emphasis.
Thanks mate - That's makes sense when you put it like that
Realistinen sotakokemus, ei elokuva!
I believe I said that in my commentary on multiple occasions
Every troop, IS a skitroop.
Mg IS Finnish light mg. Designed and made in Finland.
RK IS orginal Galil.
Thanks Jon for watching the video and for sharing that information - I appreciate it! Have a good rest of your Sunday.
Thanks Jon for watching the video and for sharing that information - I appreciate it! Have a good rest of your Sunday.
@@JTRetroReactions sorry m8 Im Joni not Jon or John.
Think the mine was a TM 65 77
AT mine anyway
Thanks mate - I never messed with Mines so pretty useless at identifying them - that was left exclusively to our Sappers.
@@JTRetroReactions Back in those times, and I think it's still the same, everyone got very familiar with anti-tank track mine. Regardless of specialty. Trainers loved them because training version is just 10kg block of concrete and it was "fun" to drag them along with everything else you had :-)
I think everything else is answered, but the AD missile you asked is Crotale NG, a French missile still in use today, most likely next to retire. There are also Soviet era BUK and Igla manpads shown here - both retired. Oh BTW, the LMG, KvKK 62, comes from the same Czech lineage as BREN - you might be surprisingly familiar with it.
And please do the Irish rant video sometime. It's always interesting to hear insiders comments on things we know only superficially from other countries. I was surprised by many things when I finally visited Ireland just before pandemic - hope I get to come back someday. Take care.
Thanks Samul for watching the video and the comments and also for the information we shared. As I mentioned in another comment due to the size of our Army, a Platoon was compromised of specialists, i.e. a radio guy, a sapper guy, a medic, a sniper etc. etc. With a small 8-10k army we have no choice. Plus it works better for overseas missions and for guerilla tactics which our defence would be so that units can operate independent of each other. I will do the Irish rant, I promise, I will be just waiting for the backlash from the officers - the enlisted men will be fine with it :)
What I find the 2020 version lacks is all and everything what the War in Ukraine changed on the battlefield. Our readiness plans aren't changed, and what the 2020 version adressed was the fighting doctrine. The element of personalized experience wasn't the main focus. Having conscripts act roles is also rather gringe, IMO....😅
Ukraine war brought FPV drones with a lethal capacity as a perminent element among group level action. We have long waited for the AP mine replacement which we were promised would come immediately, but it took them 20 years as it seems. Ottawa agreement was a deadly mistake. We were tought to secure our operation with AP mines, pipe bombs/charges and claymores. I mean it's not difficult to fashion pipe charges on the field if you've premade the pipes with screw caps, but still, that would be a "warcrime" under the current modus....😂
The modern element should be made into a renewed Battlefield version. When you look into how Russia began the war in Ukraine, it's eerily similar how the 2020 saw the same prewar actions play out, and how they were rebuffed. The way the RuZZishitz filth came from the North and were countered and then forced away, how they infiltrated the Hostomel Airport and sent SOF units to Kiev....
..it's also the same way they attacked during the Winter war. The most critical fronts which we won early on were the Battles around Suomussalmi middle of the country and the Battle of Pelkosenniemi up in Lapland
Need to add that we are already in a wartime economy in Finland and the private sector has been activated for war production.
Thanks Lumi for watching the video and for sharing your perspective. I agree with a lot of what you said, as an outsider, and you will see if you look through the comments on this and the 2020 video that I talk about drone warfare a lot and how now Russia and Ukraine are the two leading forces in this and counter drone warfare as well. You will also see in those comments that I agree with you on the Ottawa Treaty - again just speaking from an outside perspective.
Another thing I mentioned as well is not having weapons at home - for me - again as an outsider - that's a serious strategic risk as even though weapons depots are classified, it only takes one high level traitor to compromise a lot of your defence plans.
The only thing I would disagree with and this is purely from a selfish point of view is the use of conscripts / army in the videos as I was in the Irish Army when we were used to film Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan :) Have a good rest of your day.
Sorry that I've told you this before but you need to fix your audio levels. It's not clipping this time but the music that you replaced the original is way too loud.
That's RUclips that did that. I've no control over that volume.
To elaborate - got hit with a copyright, youtube allow you to auto replace the song - first time I had used that functionality and that is the result.
I have never actually seen this one before and im from Finland.. In the beginning they showed seasons and important times, even midsummer fire. I dont think it has anything to do with woke culture they didnt in the new video. We finns shouldnt be reminded of what we have like that anyway? :D If you understand what i mean. But yes the country is getting more woke etc but thats not related to the videos
Hey spoonzor - thanks for watching the video mate. Thanks for the explanation as well. You guys have a similar history to ours and you can see that in my latest video if you're not aware. But I'm sure you can understand why I was wondering if it was the woke thing - given the current trend around Europe generally to downplay any national pride as much as possible in favour of diversity etc. But it's good to hear that was not the reason.
A country foundation of Nokia telecommunication, no electronic warfare? Are you kidding me? Maybe we don't want to show that.
Sorry but that is one of the most foolish comments I have read in a while. By your logic you can't show weapons, IFVs, Tanks etc. as it would be breaking OpSec - it would be easy to show EW without showing what you do - the same as everything else they showed in both videos. They do that in Movies all of the time!
@@JTRetroReactions FDF videos rarely show anything modern/special stuff, all are just stuff which all conscripts can see or which are well known by the public. more specialized stuff is not on these videos.
Absolutely freeze and to be expected. You don't reveal your plans in public - in fact I would even go so far to say that some of the videos may be deliberately misleading in case the enemy is viewing, which of course they are.
I'm anti tank sergeant at FDF reserve. Maybe I know something. I have practiced that for years. At civil, I'm an IT-Specialist. Worked at IBM for years. Maybe I'm only stupid?
I was head of IT for JP Morgan Europe and Head of Cyber Inspection for the Central Bank of Ireland and finished up an Officer in the Professional Irish Army starting from a Private with several UNIFIL tours- maybe I know something too :)