You need to talk about Adolph Metzger the bugler that fought till the end. The natives did not mutilate is body like the others because he fought bravely. They carved a cross in his chest to symbolize he faced his enemy and covered his body with a buffalo robe, to where it looked like he was sleeping.
Rule of Thumb: if there’s a cool, interesting story that I don’t mention in a video, it’s probably because I’m planning on devoting an entire video to that subject.
I have been there. Was amazed at the huge amount of land this covered . The movie makes it seem like they were just over the hill out of sight. They were actually miles away from the fort.
Yes indeed. I was at the fort and the battle site both during this last summer and i was surprised by the distance and the number of intervening hills.
Sun Tzu Art of War Know thyself, Know thy enemy.. A thousand victories know thyself but know not thy enemy one victory for one defeat. Know not thyself, and know not your enemy every challenge is certain peril. Or something like this. Don't feel like googling this
This is a great video. I'm only 16, but I have been fascinated with the Fetterman Fight for years. I even reenact at Fort Philp Kearny, and am part of Company A 18th infantry! Thanks a ton for making this!
I visited the Fetterman battle site, it’s very interesting and worth visiting. It’s very near Fort Phil Kearny, also worth a visit. Not far off the interstate, an easy trip.
I'm so happy I found your channel. A few months ago I was searching for one like this but couldn't find it. Then suddenly recommendations came through. Time to binge.
Even if the "I can ride through the whole Sioux nation with 80 men" quote is made up it doesn't change that Fetterman rode over the ridge after the Indians when he had been ordered not to. That got his command killed. So he was rightfully blamed for the disaster.
Why chase 10 Indians when your supposed to relieve an Indian attack, and you then go well beyond where your supposed to go. OK, Fetterman, wasnt arrogant, but he messed up bad.
Uh... These recorded events are perhaps exaggerations, perhaps not, perhaps a little of each. But the real truths of them will never be known. I but look at those who would write in stone today's lies born of political expediency and can't help wonder. And, neither you nor I were there.
Some Native accounts and assumptions by soldiers and historians suggest that it was Grummund’s cavalry that made the impulsive charge, and Fetterman, thinking maybe he could stop or at least relieve Grummund, ran to join him with his infantry. It is easy to call out someone’s actions with the benefit of hindsight, but you need to take into account the situation. For all Fetterman knew, the main body of warriors had retreated and it was a few young glory hounds hanging around the battlefield (Which had precedent at the time)
Very well done and informative. One gentle correction, the narration at ~12:03 says Fetterman's wife wrote the book "Home of the Crows" but it was Carrington's wife who wrote it.
Thank you for telling this story. My mother's maiden name is Fetterman. I know that the Fetterman clan have a long history of military service. There were Fetterman men serving proudly with George Washington.
Amazingly enough, in 1968 while in Marine Corps boot camp one of my platoon mates last name was Fetterman. I asked if he was aware of the name's history and he replied Captain Fetterman was a grand uncle. Interestingly enough it appears the Native Americans were accomplished strategists utilizing the same "reverse slope tactics" employed to great successes by the Duke of Wellington at Waterloo. And as an aside, this picture of Captain Fetterman facially resembles British Leftenant Gonville Bromhead VC of the 24th Regiment of Foot. One of brave defenders at Roark's Drift.
awesome in 1988 I was with 1/9 Cav at Fort Lewis.. my new roommate was part of the S2 his last name was Fetterman what a world.. he said the samething that his great grandfather was framed by the commanders wife
Finally visited Ft Phil Kearney 5 years ago. I highly recommend a visit for anyone interested in the western Indian wars. The place is out of the way and was almost deserted (unlike Little Big Horn which is a madhouse of tourists) and gives a visitor ample time to visit the sites and talk with the local rangers. I also was able to speak to some of the LBH rangers who were visiting at Phil Kearney
Well done video and glad to see this subject covered. I had read the transcripts from Carrington's court martial online some years ago and have been fascinated with this incident and Red Cloud's war in general ever since.
Custer gets more attention for the battle of little big horn, yet this disaster was just as bloody. I beg Hollywood to produce a film about this battle.
Excellent video; I have researched this Fetterman story in the past and this adds more details. The end is of personal interest to me since I have a letter from a US Army soldier who was on the detail to move the Fetterman bodies to Custer National Cemetery. He was the husband of my wife's Great Aunt who lived back in New York State.
Nice video, I have been to the site of the Fetterman Battlefield many times , as well as the Wagon Box Fight , and the site of the old Fort Phil Kearny. My wife and I lived in Sheridan, WY for 20+ years.
I'm in the UK and would love to go there and of course the Little Big Horn too. I've visited the sites of some battles of the Zulu War of 1879, in South Africa and there are some similarities, both conflicts beginning with marked successes for the native inhabitants ( Isandhlwana for the Zulus, 1200 British Army deaths) but both leading to their inevitable total defeat by a technologically superior culture with far greater resources. I don't hold to the "noble savage " concept of indigenous people but the passing of a way of life is intensely sad, nevertheless.
It's written that the burglar was the only soldier that was spared mutilation. After he ran out of ammunition, he used his bugle as a last resort. The bugle found next to him was pounded flat. A blanket was placed over his body by the warriors as a sign of reverance.
Adolph Metzger, bugler. German immigrant. He backed into some boulders to keep his six covered and used the bugle after running out of ammo. The bugle is now in a museum.
My first time watching your work. Very nice presentation, using facts and sound research. Very detailed, yet not too long. I am an instant fan. I have known for too long that history has been distorted, and I can usually smell a rat when there is one. There are certain books I just won't buy on history after reading a few pages of them, as well as look at the credentials of the writer. Your video here is a refreshing turn down the road of truth. Liked, Subscribed, and now looking to view more of your work. Thank you and keep on making them!
Indeed. After some serious study, all it takes is a look at certain index entries and the sources used by the author tells you if a new book is worth your time.
I went to the Museum and battlefield last summer. The museum is at the Fort Phil Kearney location. Unlike Little Big Horn, one can move freely over the battlefield. Very somber place. Hard to imagine what these men, on both sides of the fight, were thinking as it all happened. The Wagon Box fight location is only a few miles away too.
Is movement restricted at the Greasy Grass Battle Site now days?Back in the seventies, I lay down in a pit Reno's men dug and disrespectfully, some might say, reenacted the scene.
@@petermcculloch4933 You're not supposed to get off the sidewalks. That is only inside the park areas. Between to two areas, you can go wherever you want (with permission). We had a horseback guided tour that rode all over the area between. We rode across the Little Bighorn twice. I would recommend it to anyone, and I hope to do it again someday.
In the excellent book “The Heart of Everything There Is” by Bob Drury and Tom Clavin, the credit for planning and organizing the ambush belongs to Red Cloud, who was a master battlefield tactician. He is also credited with rallying the disparate participating tribes to join forces and fight a common enemy, so he had strategic vision as well.
Well said. But Before the 1876 unified Native American Campaign against the US Army, Red Cloud had seen that the overwhelming numbers of settlers and military. He realized that the war against the invasion was a lost cause. This brilliant warrior did not join Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull. And too few people know of this brilliant Warrior & leader.
@@johndavis586 Easy to say when you're in a fort. He would have known the chances of the fort being overun was close to zero. Big words to get attention basically.
Because he was trying to support the horse mounted soldiers they went past the ridge and like all of us soldiers we support them all even the idiots who screw up
The cavalry, had orders NOT to leave Fetterman, once they caught up to him. Who was found farthest from the ridge? The cavalry. The infantry THEN had two choices....1) stay at the ridge.....and not help the cavalry........most likely leading to a "defeat in detail"....(first the cavalry getting wiped out then the infantry fighting by themselves and eventually getting wiped out)... ... or 2) March to the sound of the guns, and combining with the dismounted cavalry Indians vs 27 rifles...then Indians (with captured weapons )vs 52 rifles...... or.... Indians vs 80 rifles combined. Also, Fetterman, nor any officer, would sit and just watch 27 of his men, even disobedient ones, get killed. Even when given an order, by an officer NOT PRESENT at the fight, an officer AT THE SCENE, is expected to act as needed........sometimes against the orders given If Fetterman had sat on the ridge, letting 27 men get killed, and he calmly marching back......he probably would have been cashiered immediately, not withstanding him acting on the orders he was given Combining gave the best chance of any surviving........but with 2,000+ Indians....... the survival was doubtful.. (You think the wives and Carrington were able to blacken the name of Fetterman...lol.....in their books they'd have added COWARDICE to their claims against Fetterman, if he had sat, did nothing to help the cavalry, then return to the fort)
Infantry shouldn't be chasing cavalry. If the cavalry disobeyed orders and took off, Fetterman couldn't catch them anyway, and the cakvarymen had the best chance of escaping if surprised by Indians. Fetterman should have obeyed his orders. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Just discovered your channel and have subscribed. I'm impressed. My father was a history teacher and an historian of the American West. He even did some LA TV programs when I was a kid. I've read these books and primary sources. I've been to the battlefield. I still vividly remember standing on the rocks as a boy. Fetterman was not totally in the wrong but he obviously let his small command get spread out. If Grummond or Brown led an uncontrolled pursuit he should have recalled them with bugles and messengers. If the civilians didn't obey then the consequences were on them. We'll never know why he didn't follow sensible tactics. The most interesting thing about the fight and the war itself was the outcome. Red Cloud and Spotted Tail conducted an excellent campaign and even better negotiations. They made the cost of the war too high. Effectively they won the war. The Red Cloud Reservation is still huge, though it has lost some territory in the last 150 years. The tribes still control most of their range. They never needed to engage in another conflict with the government. I regard them as American generals and statesmen who should be taught in our military academies. Unfortunately, like George Crook, the best American military minds of the late 1800's remain largely unknown. I suspect part of the reason the fight has never been pushed by left wing academics is the undoubted torture and mutilations of the soldiers. It's hardly surprising that after similar cases in the 1850's, the Sioux Uprising in Minnesota during the Civil War where civilian men, women and children were butchered (the phtographs are truly grisly) and this incident; there were isolated cases of mutilations of dead native bodies after fights. Thanks for this presentation. I'll look at your other episodes. I notice you cover the Little Big Horn. My father had a particular expertise on this battle and my brother and I inherited his papers and some knowledge about it. I look forward to your next program. Thanks again.
@@atlanticrf The rewriting of history. In today's world there is a political push to demean different historical figures and what they may have done. Stick with the facts. In addition, during their own lifetimes there were people in Washington at work to blame dead soldiers for what happened. Some to cover their own rear ends. It's hard and dangerous to second guess the dead.
Excellent documentary! I've always thought that the "give me 80 men and I will..." quote sounded too good to be true. Shows that the more famous a battle is, the more versions there are of it. 15:10: Fetterman's wife?
I live very close to this site (about six miles as the crow flies), and I have no problem understanding how easy it would be to walk into an ambush. What looks like a little fold in the ground could hide a thousand men and horses. And there are high points around where a hidden spotter could watch the approach of the enemy and relay the position to those waiting to attack them. A few years later, and very close to the site of the Fetterman Massacre, the tables would turn dramatically during what came to be known as the Wagon Box Fight.
At the Wagon Box Fight, the soldiers were armed with new breech-loading Springfields, and were able to fight behind the improvised shelter of the wagon boxes. Fetterman's men had muzzle-loaders.
Most interesting documentary - I first learned about the Fetterman fight, at school in the mid 1960's , reading Kenneth Wylatts (spelling) "North Against the Sioux" which included an account of the scout "Portugee Phillips" ride to report the massacre.
I have read about this for over 30 years. It's the first time I've ever heard it called the Fetterman fight in this way. It was always called the Fetterman Massacre before when I researched it. But then again it was called many other names as well.
In many ways Fetterman is the polar opposite example of Major Reno at Little Big Horn. Fetterman is blamed for being too aggressive in crossing well over the ridge whilst Reno is accused of being too cautious and not leaving his dug in position on Reno's Hill to rescue Custer. Incidentally I have read the reason Carrington told Fetterman not to cross the ridge was that once he was out of line of sight of the Fort he couldn't be supported by the Fort's mountain howitzers. These were light artillery pieces which could fire canister rounds which contained an early version of shrapnel. The howitzers exceeded effective rifle range by a considerable margin and the Lakota were careful not to linger in range of these pieces of ordnance.
Absolutely BS as an excuse. Probably just another made up to confuse things later. Cannisters shot. Lol...think SHOTGUN Think distance from fort to ridge What happens to the pellets when you fire...they spread out. At THAT range, Fetterman's men would be as likely to get hit as any Indians near them...
Lol no. Cannisters shot....from a howitzer Think GIANT SHOTGUN what happens to the pellets when you fire a shotgun...they spread out At the distance from the fort to the ridge...the spread would be bad...ANYONE DOWNRANGE.... likely to get hit The ridge did not have a dug in trench or individual holes...it was open Fetterman's men as likely to get hit as Indians This was more than likely just more BS put out there to confuse the issue....
Upon hearing of the defeat, Henry Carrington, according to his wife, was so shaken that he stood butting his head against the walls of Fort Laramie, repeatedly shouting: "William Fetterman, give me back my legions!"
it shows Carrington's knowledge of classical Rome. Upon learning that three legions were wiped out by Germanic tribes, Augustus Caesar is said to have moaned, "Varus, give me back my legions." Varus was the general in command.
@@allensacharov5424 LOL. I was being cheeky by attributing Augustus' quote about Varus' lost legions at Teutonburg to Carrington. Fetterman's loss was nowhere near as devastating.
Great story. I read about this fight in Evan S. Connell's book, "Son of the Morning Star" and had the chance to visit the battlefield and monument back in 1987. You did a great job of explaining how some these myths evolved over time though I have to admit, it was always a more compelling story with the 80 soldiers quote!
connell's "son of the morning star" is the best book about custer and the native american conflicts of the last half of the 19th century i've ever seen. recommend this book to all interested persons. brilliant writing.
There are many recently published histories and bios on the late 19th c genocide of indigenous peoples. If you have not already read Custer’s published works, they are well worth reading. Some historians speculate that he disobeyed orders, divided his seventh cavalry, and assaulted the enormous Native American village at the Little Bighorn because he wanted to run on the Republican ticket for president in the next election. Custer bet it all on the assumption that Native Americans would not stand and fight such a technologically advanced US Army. vainglorious George Armstrong Custer.
Well done! I would recommend Terry C. Johnston's book "Sioux Dawn" it's a work of historical fiction but uses all of the books cited in this vid plus additional material for reference it's quite historically accurate & very authentic. As historical fiction writers go: Johnston is one of the best & at the top of his game. He really adds life to the story. Red Dawn is just the first book in "The Plainsmen" series a 16 book series which follows all of the major battles & engagements of the American west aside from Little Bighorn (he has a 3 book series dedicated to Custer) truly worth checking out if you desire a deeper understanding & more detailed account.
nice narrative and visuals - I've walked that battlefield a couple of times, and noticed on my last visit in 2019, there were interpretive signs along the ridge. The viewscape has not changed much since the original battle.
Grew up in Sheridan, and was raised on this history. Even had a 3rd grade field trip to the fort, site of the Wagon Box fight, and of course Fetterman's Hill.
Really great information. You would thing that General Custer would have learned from this battle if it was possible for him to know about it in those days with limited communication
Dee Browns book “ The Fetterman Disaster” is both excellent and moving, and notes that the MSM of its day treated this battle as an opportunity to paint a lurid picture of what happened, blaming Carrington for the lost lives and making Fetterman appear almost super human. If you send a small group of soldiers into a unknown territory, then instruct that the limited number be split in three, some-one is going to die - no-one in Washington accepted responsibility (as usual).
Im in the midst of reading Dee Browns book now. Im very impressed, you can tell a lot of time an research went into this. He really paints a very good picture of what life mustve been like back then, in that open country- where food (for ppl and horses) was so important, not to mention comminication to n from the rest of the world. Along with the Indians - were they friendly, hostile...or just pretending to be friendly? Was Carrington perfect? Not by any means. But overall i thought he did a good job, all things considered. A fascinating look into a moment from the American West that not many ppl know about.
I was at this sight many years ago as I was driving along the trail of USA vs NAs during the late 1800's. My one feeling about this site was a profound humility for all the participants at the loss of life. The land remembers their stories.
Excellent video! I've been Ft Phil Kearney, and to the tower commemorating the Fetterman fight. I did not tour the battlefield, however. I have seen his grave at Little Bighorn cemetery in Montana. Great video! Just subscribed!
Dear SOW, firstly thankyou for an excellent video- you write it is your 'inaugural effort'? Surely you have done this kind of thing before, the presentation is excellent! Thankyou. The drone shots are excellent, as there is nothing like 'walking the ground' to understand the tactical situation. I see that the battlefield is identical to many of our training areas in Australia: deceptively open country, but with plenty of gullies and small streambeds in which an enemy could hide in dead ground, waiting, as the enemy did, to close with the US troops. With single shot Springfield rifles, and without the numbers to deliver a wall of shot ( and obviously without any of the modern enablers we use now, least of all automatic weapons and fire support) , it would have been almost impossible to stop an enemy who appeared virtually adjacent to your position, armed for hand to hand combat against soldiers whose only alternative was either a clumsy piece of wood and steel with a bayonet mounted at one end, or six rounds in a service revolver. ( Aside from the civvy contractors who had the better firearms) It was a different story , I think some weeks later in the 'Wagon Box fight' ( which is not covered in the video for those readers who have not heard of it) when the Springfields were replaced by repeating rifles, much to the dismay of the hostiles who assumed there would be the pause as the rifles were reloaded. You are correct that history is often the tool by which facts are manipulated. I confess, all of my knowledge as a non-American was shaped by late Dee Brown's book, 'The Fetterman Massacre', I think published ibn the late 60's or early 70's. Brown, as you well know, a noted historian of the American West and I think particularly known for his work 'Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee'. It is clear that from your narrative, Brown relied heavily on the 'Fetterman reckless officer' story. At the end of the day, the truth is unknowable and probably lies somewhere between what you have described and Carrington's defence: whatever the case, I think William Fetterman would tip his hat to you for going in over 150 years later and defending his reputation.
Thank you. The Wagon Box fight is on my list. I’m not really a Fetterman apologist, or a Custer apologist even. One of my pet peeves is untested conventional wisdom that is wrong, and one of the goals of this channel is to get under the surface level of stories that people have come to believe for decades and get a more fuller understanding. Thanks again for the kind words
Well done! Thanks for the clear explanation. It seems to me as if Fetterman followed the foolish Grummond as he dashed off after the decoy. What else could he do? They needed a Ranald MacKenzie’s good sense and leadership in charge of the cavalry but didn’t have it.
Great video. I have been to both the Little Big horn Battlefield ( several times ) and the site of the Fetterman fight ( once ) and felt the presence of the combatants who fought at both locations. I am in awe of all combatants. The native Americans were doing their best in an impossible fight to save their country and their way of life, and the soldiers were doing their duty ( as they saw it) to advance " civilization." As in most wars, many honorable lives were sacrificed in pursuit of what was thought to be right. I have the greatest respect for all involved for doing what they perceived to be right even though killing each other is never a good idea. If you are one who follows historical events, visiting various historical sites, especially battle sites, can bring a sort of Deja-Vu experience into your life.
In the middle 1960 there was an anthology series - I think it was on NBC - which dramatized this event. Robert Fuller played Fetterman ; Richard Egan and Carroll O'Connor were also in the cast.
EXCELLENT video. It goes to show how often it is easy to put the blame for an incident on a dead man who cannot defend himself. I too believed that Fetterman was the person to blame for the massacre until I saw your video. Thanks for giving much "Food for thought " !
Excellent video, the narration was outstanding. Well done! I love history and have added you to my subs. I had the somber opportunity to visit Custer battlefield a few years ago. I know now I have another place to visit. If I may, could you please do a video on the battle of the Rosebud. Again, well done.
Although not an American, I enjoy all military history and this approach to the Fetterman fight is new to me. I also see that you have an upload of the Reno/Benteen action at Greasy grass (to me, the most interesting event of that day) and I shall view that now. Subscribed!
@@TheStoryOutWest Now you can say that your YT channel has 'international' recognition! (that should work with the ladies..) On a serious note - I think that you could expand, with your knowledge of this era and area by going deeper into the personalities. Custer is a fascinating and complex character and to lesser extent, so is Reno and Keough amongst many others. Also, crazy horse, the US cavalry scouts and the list goes on and on - as do I. I'll stop there..
I'm 56. I actually had to think about "greasy grass" for a second...then connect it to the name the US gave the battle. A lot like the civil war battles having 2 names.....the north and south using different naming systems. Actually, I've often wondered about that. Why would they use 2 naming systems? Before the civil war, both sides were then one army..using one system
Excellent video sir. I went to high school in Buffalo near the Fort and massacre sight. I used to wonder about the real truth of the event as we would pass by on the “old road” to Sheridan. We lived on Carrington Av in Buffalo! Thanks
Excellent video, kudos on the narration. It's common knowledge the civilians had the Henry rifles, and i'm sure the infantry had *muzzle loading* rifles. WHat kind of rifles did the cavalry have?
Has there been any archeology digs been done at the Fetterman Fight area? I know a few people have picked up cartridges and arrow tips over the years,But i was just curious if theres been an organized and professional dig at the site
He was told not to pursue over the ridge, and he did anyhow. I read a book written by the later Mrs Carrington, I found her to be honorable, and decent. I believe her account, the pain and sadness she expressed that fateful day comes truly from her heart.
Bottom line is Fetterman fell for a simple trick and in doing so disobeyed his orders. It was very similar to the Custer fight, were Custer was ordered to scout and report back any indian presence. However he split his command on the sight of his enemy and attacked, getting his own column overrun. Out of a force of 700 men, Custer and 273 of his soldiers were killed.
@@gocatoon4591 General Terry's orders to Custer were to follow the Indians to the Little Bighorn. There wait for Col Gibbon's infantry reinforcements before attacking the indians.
@@billballbuster7186 "It is, impossible to give you any definite instructions in regard to this movement, and were it not impossible to do so the Department Commander places too much confidence in your zeal, energy, and ability to wish to impose upon you precise orders which might hamper your action when nearly in contact with the enemy." Nope you are wrong.. so just stop thinking like you know anything..
I have read the entirety of Carrington’s report. He, of course, could not see over the ridge. The narrative that makes the most sense to me that is more recent demonstrates that Grummond ordered his mounted infantry far beyond the ridgeline. His men were the first to be surrounded by the Indians. Apparently Fetterman tried to rescue that detail and was immediately surrounded. In any case, both Fetterman and Grummond disobeyed Carrington. Carrington never recovered his reputation and Fetterman had a massacre and fort named after him. He was no hero. What is painfully clear about the Indian war after the Civil War was over is that the US military, especially Sherman, had no idea what so ever how to engage cavalry with cavalry. Nor were the soldiers armed with the best weapons available. At the beginning of the war the cavalry had 7 shot lever action repeating rifles. Those weapons were taken away from the soldiers and replaced re-tooled muskets single shot breach loading Sharps rifles and the cavalry was mostly replaced by mounted infantry (14-20 vs. 8-10 shots per minute). Forty dollars per unit vs. $30 per unit). The best weapons available were Colt pistols and Henry rifles. The Henry held 14 rounds and could fire 28 rounds per minute and cost the same per unit, $40, as the Spencer. The mounted infantry dismounted when engaged and two men were charged with moving the horses out of the battle area, hence, two less guns fighting. The Indians would surround them and lob arrows into their midst inflicting far more casualties than they took from the muskets. A horse cost $120 to $140 dollars appease. Save ten dollars per unit on rifles and sacrifice hundreds of horses at three times or more the cost of the horses. Why? Because during the Civil War cavalry fared poorly against infantry. Different war. Dumb!!! At the battle of the Little Big Horn, the newly minted muskets jammed frequently. The firing rate of arrows was superior to any of the rifles available. The Texas Rangers figured all this out and had Colt make them pistols that they used very effectively against the Indians in Texas, so it wasn’t like no one knew how to beat the Indian cavalry.
The US military's attitude regarding firepower continued all the way through the Korean War. Soldiers were expected to be marksmen, and the were issued long-range, accurate rifles with a slow rate of fire. It took a long time to realize that bullets were a lot cheaper than soldiers, and that if you wanted to win a battle you needed to overwhelm the enemy with concentrated fire.
@@DK-gy7ll The Colt revolving rifles at the battle of Chickamauga is a classic example that should have taugt that lesson. "Units continued to arrive on Horseshoe Ridge and extended the line, most importantly a regiment that Brannan had requested from Negley's division, the 21st Ohio. This unit was armed with five-shot Colt revolving rifles, without which the right flank of the position might have been turned by Kershaw's 2nd South Carolina at 1 p.m. Historian Steven E. Woodworth called the actions of the 21st Ohio "one of the epic defensive stands of the entire war."[89] The 535 men of the regiment expended 43,550 rounds in the engagement." There are much better accounts of these men with their repeating Colt rifles. Many Union officers carried Henry rifles and Colt pistols. Contrary to what many contemporary people say, the Colt pistols could be reloaded while riding a horse as they used paper cartridges not loose powder like the reenactors use. I've made similar cartridges and shot them in a replica of a Colt 1851 Navy. The Texas Rangers reloaded their Colt Paterson revolvers on their horses. Some Civil War cavalry were able to reload their Spencer rifles while riding. P.s. I have written two three novels about the post Civil War West that have some grain of truth to them reguarding the use of Colt pistols and Henry rifles by cowboys and settlers: The French Lady's Cowboys, A Pocket Full of Stones, and Guts, Guns, and Glory; all available on Kindle at Amazon.
Thanks for a thoughtful recounting of an American tragedy. I subscribe to the school of thought that Captain Fetterman crossed to the north of Lodge Trail Ridge, disobeying Col. Carrington's orders in the process, to try to help the cavalry who had been ordered ahead and into an ambush by the rash Lt. Grummond. As you pointed out, the people with an agenda wrote the history of this sad encounter.
Thank you for the video , to see the actual location on film where this took place adds to the written accounts. I read the book ‘ The Fetterman Massacre over forty years ago , a great book , but can’t remember the author .
Fantastic! Thank you! What would be nice is a scale of miles in the area of which we are speaking. One can presume all this took place between - 3-5 miles - from the fort? Thanks again!
I have a Uberti Henry in .44WCF. It is definitely the M4 of its day. The round isn't as powerful as a .45/70 or .45/55, but out to 150 yds is powerful enough to drop a deer. With several folks who have experience with it, they could put down an amount of fire that would slow down any attack. Some have stated that the reload is too awkward: true one has to withdraw the follower and drop the rounds down the tube, but firing in relays (a few engaging while the others reload behind cover) would be effective-certainly in 19th century terms.
That's good, but a high-volume rifle requires a high-volume ammo supply. The Henry is only as effective as its ammo supply. It is superior in the short term when using this rapid rate of fire, but without ammo wagons/mules, you are limited by what you can carry. This is also true for single-shot rifles. You are as effective as a single-shot rifle if you are forced to make every shot count due to a lack of ammo resupply. And if the single-shot rifle has greater stopping power and accuracy at longer ranges, you are at a disadvantage at that point. It also cannot take a bayonet.
You need to talk about Adolph Metzger the bugler that fought till the end. The natives did not mutilate is body like the others because he fought bravely. They carved a cross in his chest to symbolize he faced his enemy and covered his body with a buffalo robe, to where it looked like he was sleeping.
Rule of Thumb: if there’s a cool, interesting story that I don’t mention in a video, it’s probably because I’m planning on devoting an entire video to that subject.
@@TheStoryOutWest Thank you for the response, Love your outlook on the battles.
Cant wait to see more
@@TheStoryOutWest i
That sign at 14:48 in the video, explains Metzger’s fight. I had to zoom into it with my iPhone. Cheers!
I have been there. Was amazed at the huge amount of land this covered . The movie makes it seem like they were just over the hill out of sight. They were actually miles away from the fort.
Once again the stupidity and avarice of whites in that era...proves to be their downfall, Custer made that same mistake.
6⁰
Yes indeed. I was at the fort and the battle site both during this last summer and i was surprised by the distance and the number of intervening hills.
Over rating your own abilities and underestimating that of your enemy can often be a fatal mistake
Sometimes your friends ARE your enemy. You just don't know it yet..
Sun Tzu Art of War Know thyself, Know thy enemy.. A thousand victories know thyself but know not thy enemy one victory for one defeat. Know not thyself, and know not your enemy every challenge is certain peril. Or something like this. Don't feel like googling this
This is a great video. I'm only 16, but I have been fascinated with the Fetterman Fight for years. I even reenact at Fort Philp Kearny, and am part of Company A 18th infantry! Thanks a ton for making this!
Thank you! Spread the word!
Great videos!
Thank you!
Read Custer! Nathaniel philbrick " The Last stand"
It's great to hear from a young person that loves history these days.
I visited the Fetterman battle site, it’s very interesting and worth visiting. It’s very near Fort Phil Kearny, also worth a visit. Not far off the interstate, an easy trip.
Also in the area is the site of the Wagon Box Fight, to round out an afternoon of battlefield visits.
I'm so happy I found your channel. A few months ago I was searching for one like this but couldn't find it. Then suddenly recommendations came through. Time to binge.
Even if the "I can ride through the whole Sioux nation with 80 men" quote is made up it doesn't change that Fetterman rode over the ridge after the Indians when he had been ordered not to. That got his command killed. So he was rightfully blamed for the disaster.
Why chase 10 Indians when your supposed to relieve an Indian attack, and you then go well beyond where your supposed to go. OK, Fetterman, wasnt arrogant, but he messed up bad.
Uh...
These recorded events are perhaps exaggerations, perhaps not, perhaps a little of each. But the real truths of them will never be known. I but look at those who would write in stone today's lies born of political expediency and can't help wonder. And, neither you nor I were there.
@@davidmoser3535 HIs what???
Some Native accounts and assumptions by soldiers and historians suggest that it was Grummund’s cavalry that made the impulsive charge, and Fetterman, thinking maybe he could stop or at least relieve Grummund, ran to join him with his infantry. It is easy to call out someone’s actions with the benefit of hindsight, but you need to take into account the situation. For all Fetterman knew, the main body of warriors had retreated and it was a few young glory hounds hanging around the battlefield (Which had precedent at the time)
Thank you. He was in charge on the scene. If Carrington's orders had been followed it would not have happened
Very well done and informative. One gentle correction, the narration at ~12:03 says Fetterman's wife wrote the book "Home of the Crows" but it was Carrington's wife who wrote it.
Thank you for telling this story. My mother's maiden name is Fetterman. I know that the Fetterman clan have a long history of military service. There were Fetterman men serving proudly with George Washington.
One of my kids is half Fetterman. Russian Jewish was there heritage.
Amazingly enough, in 1968 while in Marine Corps boot camp one of my platoon mates last name was Fetterman. I asked if he was aware of the name's history and he replied Captain Fetterman was a grand uncle. Interestingly enough it appears the Native Americans were accomplished strategists utilizing the same "reverse slope tactics" employed to great successes by the Duke of Wellington at Waterloo. And as an aside, this picture of Captain Fetterman facially resembles British Leftenant Gonville Bromhead VC of the 24th Regiment of Foot. One of brave defenders at Roark's Drift.
awesome in 1988 I was with 1/9 Cav at Fort Lewis.. my new roommate was part of the S2 his last name was Fetterman what a world.. he said the samething that his great grandfather was framed by the commanders wife
-- Semper Fi. I got out of the Corps the year you entered it.
@@Dr.Pepper001 Semper Fi Brother and welcome home.
Roarke's Drift is legendary.
He certainly looks like Bromhead .
Finally visited Ft Phil Kearney 5 years ago. I highly recommend a visit for anyone interested in the western Indian wars. The place is out of the way and was almost deserted (unlike Little Big Horn which is a madhouse of tourists) and gives a visitor ample time to visit the sites and talk with the local rangers. I also was able to speak to some of the LBH rangers who were visiting at Phil Kearney
Thanks for a realistic review of these events. The art work you included is very good.
Well done video and glad to see this subject covered. I had read the transcripts from Carrington's court martial online some years ago and have been fascinated with this incident and Red Cloud's war in general ever since.
Your voice is very pleasant for these awesome tales of the past
Custer gets more attention for the battle of little big horn, yet this disaster was just as bloody. I beg Hollywood to produce a film about this battle.
This is good stuff. Well done! The music track is superb also!
Excellent video; I have researched this Fetterman story in the past and this adds more details. The end is of personal interest to me since I have a letter from a US Army soldier who was on the detail to move the Fetterman bodies to Custer National Cemetery. He was the husband of my wife's Great Aunt who lived back in New York State.
Nice video,
I have been to the site of the Fetterman Battlefield many times , as well as the Wagon Box Fight , and the site of the old Fort Phil Kearny. My wife and I lived in Sheridan, WY for 20+ years.
I'm in the UK and would love to go there and of course the Little Big Horn too. I've visited the sites of some battles of the Zulu War of 1879, in South Africa and there are some similarities, both conflicts beginning with marked successes for the native inhabitants ( Isandhlwana for the Zulus, 1200 British Army deaths) but both leading to their inevitable total defeat by a technologically superior culture with far greater resources. I don't hold to the "noble savage " concept of indigenous people but the passing of a way of life is intensely sad, nevertheless.
It's written that the burglar was the only soldier that was spared mutilation. After he ran out of ammunition, he used his bugle as a last resort. The bugle found next to him was pounded flat. A blanket was placed over his body by the warriors as a sign of reverance.
Adolph Metzger, bugler. German immigrant. He backed into some boulders to keep his six covered and used the bugle after running out of ammo. The bugle is now in a museum.
@@teutonalex v
@@MrSnidleywhiplash Teuton was the name of the forefathers of modern-day Germans under the Ancient Romans.
"Burglar"? What was a criminal doing in the U.S. Army? Speilung kauntz, even if the rest of the tale shows that he was a musician.;)
@@Otokichi786 , I'm sure there was a whole lot of criminals in the US Army. What they did to the Native Americans is testament to that.
My first time watching your work. Very nice presentation, using facts and sound research. Very detailed, yet not too long. I am an instant fan. I have known for too long that history has been distorted, and I can usually smell a rat when there is one. There are certain books I just won't buy on history after reading a few pages of them, as well as look at the credentials of the writer. Your video here is a refreshing turn down the road of truth. Liked, Subscribed, and now looking to view more of your work. Thank you and keep on making them!
Indeed. After some serious study, all it takes is a look at certain index entries and the sources used by the author tells you if a new book is worth your time.
Great rendition, Very informative to a story that's always been abridged
I went to the Museum and battlefield last summer. The museum is at the Fort Phil Kearney location. Unlike Little Big Horn, one can move freely over the battlefield. Very somber place. Hard to imagine what these men, on both sides of the fight, were thinking as it all happened. The Wagon Box fight location is only a few miles away too.
Destination Fucked.
Is movement restricted at the Greasy Grass Battle Site now days?Back in the seventies, I lay down in a pit Reno's men dug and disrespectfully, some might say, reenacted the scene.
@@petermcculloch4933 You're not supposed to get off the sidewalks. That is only inside the park areas. Between to two areas, you can go wherever you want (with permission). We had a horseback guided tour that rode all over the area between. We rode across the Little Bighorn twice. I would recommend it to anyone, and I hope to do it again someday.
In the excellent book “The Heart of Everything There Is” by Bob Drury and Tom Clavin, the credit for planning and organizing the ambush belongs to Red Cloud, who was a master battlefield tactician. He is also credited with rallying the disparate participating tribes to join forces and fight a common enemy, so he had strategic vision as well.
Jim bridger was at the fort and sent word to red cloud that he was not going down easy..the sioux women will weep for the warriors i kill.
Well said.
But Before the 1876 unified Native American Campaign against the US Army, Red Cloud had seen that the overwhelming numbers of settlers and military. He realized that the war against the invasion was a lost cause. This brilliant warrior did not join Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull.
And too few people know of this brilliant Warrior & leader.
@@johndavis586 Easy to say when you're in a fort. He would have known the chances of the fort being overun was close to zero. Big words to get attention basically.
Undoubtedly my favorite book, a thrilling tale of a great strategist and leader. Glad you enjoyed it as well!
@@ingurlund9657 it was 2000 to one why would red cloud not have overrun the fort 200 miles from any help...
It's great to see so many History RUclips channels
Watched the `dog walk` video and subscribed immediately! This is excellent stuff. British military historian, here. Respect, Sir!
I am blown away after watching your video! It is very enjoyable and interesting
I learned about this battle as a child because of Paul Goble’s wonderfully illustrated book Red Clouds War. Also of Little Big Horn.
Yes!!
Fetterman was clearly ordered not to cross the ridge, but he did. I don't really see why he's not to blame.
Because he was trying to support the horse mounted soldiers they went past the ridge and like all of us soldiers we support them all even the idiots who screw up
The cavalry, had orders NOT to leave Fetterman, once they caught up to him.
Who was found farthest from the ridge? The cavalry.
The infantry THEN had two choices....1) stay at the ridge.....and not help the cavalry........most likely leading to a "defeat in detail"....(first the cavalry getting wiped out then the infantry fighting by themselves and eventually getting wiped out)...
... or 2) March to the sound of the guns, and combining with the dismounted cavalry
Indians vs 27 rifles...then Indians (with captured weapons )vs 52 rifles...... or.... Indians vs 80 rifles combined.
Also, Fetterman, nor any officer, would sit and just watch 27 of his men, even disobedient ones, get killed.
Even when given an order, by an officer NOT PRESENT at the fight, an officer AT THE SCENE, is expected to act as needed........sometimes against the orders given
If Fetterman had sat on the ridge, letting 27 men get killed, and he calmly marching back......he probably would have been cashiered immediately, not withstanding him acting on the orders he was given
Combining gave the best chance of any surviving........but with 2,000+ Indians....... the survival was doubtful..
(You think the wives and Carrington were able to blacken the name of Fetterman...lol.....in their books they'd have added COWARDICE to their claims against Fetterman, if he had sat, did nothing to help the cavalry, then return to the fort)
Infantry shouldn't be chasing cavalry. If the cavalry disobeyed orders and took off, Fetterman couldn't catch them anyway, and the cakvarymen had the best chance of escaping if surprised by Indians.
Fetterman should have obeyed his orders. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
@@jackkunkel ever been in a fight for your life?
@@stevesmith2171 Only in Vietnam in the Marines.
Just discovered your channel and have subscribed. I'm impressed. My father was a history teacher and an historian of the American West. He even did some LA TV programs when I was a kid. I've read these books and primary sources. I've been to the battlefield. I still vividly remember standing on the rocks as a boy. Fetterman was not totally in the wrong but he obviously let his small command get spread out. If Grummond or Brown led an uncontrolled pursuit he should have recalled them with bugles and messengers. If the civilians didn't obey then the consequences were on them. We'll never know why he didn't follow sensible tactics.
The most interesting thing about the fight and the war itself was the outcome. Red Cloud and Spotted Tail conducted an excellent campaign and even better negotiations. They made the cost of the war too high. Effectively they won the war. The Red Cloud Reservation is still huge, though it has lost some territory in the last 150 years. The tribes still control most of their range. They never needed to engage in another conflict with the government. I regard them as American generals and statesmen who should be taught in our military academies. Unfortunately, like George Crook, the best American military minds of the late 1800's remain largely unknown. I suspect part of the reason the fight has never been pushed by left wing academics is the undoubted torture and mutilations of the soldiers. It's hardly surprising that after similar cases in the 1850's, the Sioux Uprising in Minnesota during the Civil War where civilian men, women and children were butchered (the phtographs are truly grisly) and this incident; there were isolated cases of mutilations of dead native bodies after fights.
Thanks for this presentation. I'll look at your other episodes. I notice you cover the Little Big Horn. My father had a particular expertise on this battle and my brother and I inherited his papers and some knowledge about it. I look forward to your next program. Thanks again.
If there’s going to be a lot of ’wing’ talk here, I’m not going to subscribe. Keep your politics to yourself.
@@johncox2865 What are you afraid of?
@@atlanticrf The rewriting of history. In today's world there is a political push to demean different historical figures and what they may have done. Stick with the facts. In addition, during their own lifetimes there were people in Washington at work to blame dead soldiers for what happened. Some to cover their own rear ends. It's hard and dangerous to second guess the dead.
@@johncox2865 Agree. Some people just can't help but play victim to this "biased left wing academia" shibboleth.
Excellent documentary! I've always thought that the "give me 80 men and I will..." quote sounded too good to be true. Shows that the more famous a battle is, the more versions there are of it.
15:10: Fetterman's wife?
This is like the perfect movie to be made be really surprised nobody thought about making one about the story
There’s a good book to work from, Ridgeline. So I bet it happens.
The rest of the story of the Bozeman Trail and the Powder River Forts would make a great screenplay along the lines of Deadwood.
Thank you for covering this .
So we’ll done! Thanks for posting
Very well researched and documented, and a high quality production. Subscribed now to see more quality historical programs. Thank you.
I have read the books you mention . I was left with questions. Thanks for answering them
Very good video. Lots of graphics…which I really appreciate. Thank you.
John Monnett's book is a must read for info on this battle. It is right on target.
I live very close to this site (about six miles as the crow flies), and I have no problem understanding how easy it would be to walk into an ambush. What looks like a little fold in the ground could hide a thousand men and horses. And there are high points around where a hidden spotter could watch the approach of the enemy and relay the position to those waiting to attack them. A few years later, and very close to the site of the Fetterman Massacre, the tables would turn dramatically during what came to be known as the Wagon Box Fight.
At the Wagon Box Fight, the soldiers were armed with new breech-loading Springfields, and were able to fight behind the improvised shelter of the wagon boxes. Fetterman's men had muzzle-loaders.
Never heard of this story, thanks! I love our Old West stories!❤️
I've always wanted to know more about this fight., Thanks for all your hard work .
Most interesting documentary - I first learned about the Fetterman fight, at school in the mid 1960's , reading Kenneth Wylatts (spelling) "North Against the Sioux" which included an account of the scout "Portugee Phillips" ride to report the massacre.
I have read about this for over 30 years. It's the first time I've ever heard it called the Fetterman fight in this way. It was always called the Fetterman Massacre before when I researched it. But then again it was called many other names as well.
@@bad74maverick1 "The Battle of the Hundred in the Hand" is one of my favorite alternative names.
I just found this channel... wow, what a great job of teaching and explanation! This is alot like Little Bighorn and so is the terrain. I subscribed 😁
Thank you! I'm glad you found it helpful
In many ways Fetterman is the polar opposite example of Major Reno at Little Big Horn.
Fetterman is blamed for being too aggressive in crossing well over the ridge whilst Reno is accused of being too cautious and not leaving his dug in position on Reno's Hill to rescue Custer.
Incidentally I have read the reason Carrington told Fetterman not to cross the ridge was that once he was out of line of sight of the Fort he couldn't be supported by the Fort's mountain howitzers.
These were light artillery pieces which could fire canister rounds which contained an early version of shrapnel. The howitzers exceeded effective rifle range by a considerable margin and the Lakota were careful not to linger in range of these pieces of ordnance.
Absolutely BS as an excuse.
Probably just another made up to confuse things later.
Cannisters shot.
Lol...think SHOTGUN
Think distance from fort to ridge
What happens to the pellets when you fire...they spread out.
At THAT range, Fetterman's men would be as likely to get hit as any Indians near them...
Lol no.
Cannisters shot....from a howitzer
Think GIANT SHOTGUN
what happens to the pellets when you fire a shotgun...they spread out
At the distance from the fort to the ridge...the spread would be bad...ANYONE DOWNRANGE.... likely to get hit
The ridge did not have a dug in trench or individual holes...it was open
Fetterman's men as likely to get hit as Indians
This was more than likely just more BS put out there to confuse the issue....
Upon hearing of the defeat, Henry Carrington, according to his wife, was so shaken that he stood butting his head against the walls of Fort Laramie, repeatedly shouting: "William Fetterman, give me back my legions!"
it shows Carrington's knowledge of classical Rome. Upon learning that three legions were wiped out by Germanic tribes, Augustus Caesar is said to have moaned, "Varus, give me back my legions." Varus was the general in command.
@@allensacharov5424 LOL. I was being cheeky by attributing Augustus' quote about Varus' lost legions at Teutonburg to Carrington. Fetterman's loss was nowhere near as devastating.
Ha!
It's a long ways from were Fetterman was killed to Ft Laramie.
Great story. I read about this fight in Evan S. Connell's book, "Son of the Morning Star" and had the chance to visit the battlefield and monument back in 1987. You did a great job of explaining how some these myths evolved over time though I have to admit, it was always a more compelling story with the 80 soldiers quote!
connell's "son of the morning star" is the best book about custer and the native american conflicts of the last half of the 19th century i've ever seen. recommend this book to all interested persons. brilliant writing.
I like his comment about Carrington, that he seemed to prefer ostracizing them socially rather than fighting. It stuck with me.
There are many recently published histories and bios on the late 19th c genocide of indigenous peoples. If you have not already read Custer’s published works, they are well worth reading. Some historians speculate that he disobeyed orders, divided his seventh cavalry, and assaulted the enormous Native American village at the Little Bighorn because he wanted to run on the Republican ticket for president in the next election. Custer bet it all on the assumption that Native Americans would not stand and fight such a technologically advanced US Army. vainglorious George Armstrong Custer.
Well done! I would recommend Terry C. Johnston's book "Sioux Dawn" it's a work of historical fiction but uses all of the books cited in this vid plus additional material for reference it's quite historically accurate & very authentic. As historical fiction writers go: Johnston is one of the best & at the top of his game. He really adds life to the story. Red Dawn is just the first book in "The Plainsmen" series a 16 book series which follows all of the major battles & engagements of the American west aside from Little Bighorn (he has a 3 book series dedicated to Custer) truly worth checking out if you desire a deeper understanding & more detailed account.
been there too. thanks for shedding new light on this
nice narrative and visuals - I've walked that battlefield a couple of times, and noticed on my last visit in 2019, there were interpretive signs along the ridge. The viewscape has not changed much since the original battle.
Grew up in Sheridan, and was raised on this history. Even had a 3rd grade field trip to the fort, site of the Wagon Box fight, and of course Fetterman's Hill.
Really great information. You would thing that General Custer would have learned from this battle if it was possible for him to know about it in those days with limited communication
Custer undoubtedly studied the adversaries tactics here...his civilwar bravado blinding his conclusions
Dee Browns book “ The Fetterman Disaster” is both excellent and moving, and notes that the MSM of its day treated this battle as an opportunity to paint a lurid picture of what happened, blaming Carrington for the lost lives and making Fetterman appear almost super human. If you send a small group of soldiers into a unknown territory, then instruct that the limited number be split in three, some-one is going to die - no-one in Washington accepted responsibility (as usual).
Im in the midst of reading Dee Browns book now. Im very impressed, you can tell a lot of time an research went into this. He really paints a very good picture of what life mustve been like back then, in that open country- where food (for ppl and horses) was so important, not to mention comminication to n from the rest of the world. Along with the Indians - were they friendly, hostile...or just pretending to be friendly? Was Carrington perfect? Not by any means. But overall i thought he did a good job, all things considered. A fascinating look into a moment from the American West that not many ppl know about.
Great video. Being only superficially familiar with US history, I found this fascinating. I love your disciplined approach.
Thank you for this video. I actually visited the site of the Fetterman massacre back in the '80s having never heard of it. Fascinating story.
I was at this sight many years ago as I was driving along the trail of USA vs NAs during the late 1800's. My one feeling about this site was a profound humility for all the participants at the loss of life. The land remembers their stories.
I grew up in Story WY and remember riding to the Fetterman monument and the old fort site as a kid on horseback with my friends. Love the history.
My first time there a fella was riding along the ridge with his dogs, getting his horse some exercise. Not many battlefields where you can do that
Awesome video man.
Excellent video! I've been Ft Phil Kearney, and to the tower commemorating the Fetterman fight. I did not tour the battlefield, however. I have seen his grave at Little Bighorn cemetery in Montana. Great video! Just subscribed!
Dear SOW, firstly thankyou for an excellent video- you write it is your 'inaugural effort'?
Surely you have done this kind of thing before, the presentation is excellent! Thankyou. The drone shots are excellent, as there is nothing like 'walking the ground' to understand the tactical situation. I see that the battlefield is identical to many of our training areas in Australia: deceptively open country, but with plenty of gullies and small streambeds in which an enemy could hide in dead ground, waiting, as the enemy did, to close with the US troops. With single shot Springfield rifles, and without the numbers to deliver a wall of shot ( and obviously without any of the modern enablers we use now, least of all automatic weapons and fire support) , it would have been almost impossible to stop an enemy who appeared virtually adjacent to your position, armed for hand to hand combat against soldiers whose only alternative was either a clumsy piece of wood and steel with a bayonet mounted at one end, or six rounds in a service revolver. ( Aside from the civvy contractors who had the better firearms)
It was a different story , I think some weeks later in the 'Wagon Box fight' ( which is not covered in the video for those readers who have not heard of it) when the Springfields were replaced by repeating rifles, much to the dismay of the hostiles who assumed there would be the pause as the rifles were reloaded.
You are correct that history is often the tool by which facts are manipulated. I confess, all of my knowledge as a non-American was shaped by late Dee Brown's book, 'The Fetterman Massacre', I think published ibn the late 60's or early 70's. Brown, as you well know, a noted historian of the American West and I think particularly known for his work 'Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee'. It is clear that from your narrative, Brown relied heavily on the 'Fetterman reckless officer' story.
At the end of the day, the truth is unknowable and probably lies somewhere between what you have described and Carrington's defence: whatever the case, I think William Fetterman would tip his hat to you for going in over 150 years later and defending his reputation.
Thank you. The Wagon Box fight is on my list.
I’m not really a Fetterman apologist, or a Custer apologist even. One of my pet peeves is untested conventional wisdom that is wrong, and one of the goals of this channel is to get under the surface level of stories that people have come to believe for decades and get a more fuller understanding. Thanks again for the kind words
Well done! Thanks for the clear explanation. It seems to me as if Fetterman followed the foolish Grummond as he dashed off after the decoy. What else could he do? They needed a Ranald MacKenzie’s good sense and leadership in charge of the cavalry but didn’t have it.
Just another General Cluster, arrogance is no excuse for stupidity.
Great video. I have been to both the Little Big horn Battlefield ( several times ) and the site of the Fetterman fight ( once ) and felt the presence of the combatants who fought at both locations. I am in awe of all combatants. The native Americans were doing their best in an impossible fight to save their country and their way of life, and the soldiers were doing their duty ( as they saw it) to advance " civilization." As in most wars, many honorable lives were sacrificed in pursuit of what was thought to be right. I have the greatest respect for all involved for doing what they perceived to be right even though killing each other is never a good idea. If you are one who follows historical events, visiting various historical sites, especially battle sites, can bring a sort of Deja-Vu experience into your life.
Excellent video!
Incredible! I’ve never heard of this. Great story 👍
In the middle 1960 there was an anthology series - I think it was on NBC - which dramatized this event. Robert Fuller played Fetterman ; Richard Egan and Carroll O'Connor were also in the cast.
Thanks. ✌🏻👊
Excellent. Many thanks.
EXCELLENT video. It goes to show how often it is easy to put the blame for an incident on a dead man who cannot defend himself. I too believed that Fetterman was the person to blame for the massacre until I saw your video. Thanks for giving much "Food for thought " !
Well done!
Outstanding video. 👍
Damn good story. Thank you for the how perceptions change over time aspect.
Excellent video, the narration was outstanding. Well done! I love history and have added you to my subs. I had the somber opportunity to visit Custer battlefield a few years ago. I know now I have another place to visit. If I may, could you please do a video on the battle of the Rosebud. Again, well done.
I will throw it on the list. Thank you!
. . . Rosebud Battle, Grattan Fight, New Ulm Battles, Beecher's Island Battle, The Wagon Box Fight, Sand Creek Massacre, Washita River Massacre, Powder River Battle, Big Hole Battle, Bear Paw Battle, Adobe Walls, Warren Wagon Train Battle, Whitestone Hill Battle, Wounded Knee . . .
That place is worth a visit if you go that way as it's just off of I-90 and the fort has a nice little museum.
Although not an American, I enjoy all military history and this approach to the Fetterman fight is new to me.
I also see that you have an upload of the Reno/Benteen action at Greasy grass (to me, the most interesting event of that day) and I shall view that now.
Subscribed!
Thank you! If you’d like, let me know where you’re from!
@@TheStoryOutWest
Born in France, now resident in Cornwall, England for the past 9 years.
(It's complicated..)
Very cool!
@@TheStoryOutWest
Now you can say that your YT channel has 'international' recognition! (that should work with the ladies..)
On a serious note - I think that you could expand, with your knowledge of this era and area by going deeper into the personalities.
Custer is a fascinating and complex character and to lesser extent, so is Reno and Keough amongst many others. Also, crazy horse, the US cavalry scouts and the list goes on and on - as do I.
I'll stop there..
I'm 56. I actually had to think about "greasy grass" for a second...then connect it to the name the US gave the battle.
A lot like the civil war battles having 2 names.....the north and south using different naming systems.
Actually, I've often wondered about that. Why would they use 2 naming systems? Before the civil war, both sides were then one army..using one system
Excellent video sir. I went to high school in Buffalo near the Fort and massacre sight. I used to wonder about the real truth of the event as we would pass by on the “old road” to Sheridan. We lived on Carrington Av in Buffalo! Thanks
Well done.
Thank you for sharing.
That had to be one hell of a chapter in history.
Excellent video, kudos on the narration. It's common knowledge the civilians had the Henry rifles, and i'm sure the infantry had *muzzle loading* rifles. WHat kind of rifles did the cavalry have?
Spencer carbines, good out to about 200 yards.
Please make more
Has there been any archeology digs been done at the Fetterman Fight area? I know a few people have picked up cartridges and arrow tips over the years,But i was just curious if theres been an organized and professional dig at the site
He was told not to pursue over the ridge, and he did anyhow. I read a book written by the later Mrs Carrington, I found her to be honorable, and decent. I believe her account, the pain and sadness she expressed that fateful day comes truly from her heart.
I really enjoyed this video. I also did a video on the Fetterman Fight and our facts are along the same line. I liked your graphics. Superb video.
Thank you!
Excellent video
Bottom line is Fetterman fell for a simple trick and in doing so disobeyed his orders. It was very similar to the Custer fight, were Custer was ordered to scout and report back any indian presence. However he split his command on the sight of his enemy and attacked, getting his own column overrun. Out of a force of 700 men, Custer and 273 of his soldiers were killed.
Custer did not disobey orders..
@@gocatoon4591 General Terry's orders to Custer were to follow the Indians to the Little Bighorn. There wait for Col Gibbon's infantry reinforcements before attacking the indians.
@@billballbuster7186 wrong.. show me exactly where this was ever stated anywhere, ever.
@@billballbuster7186 "It is, impossible to give you any definite instructions in regard to this movement, and were it not impossible to do so the Department Commander places too much confidence in your zeal, energy, and ability to wish to impose upon you precise orders which might hamper your action when nearly in contact with the enemy." Nope you are wrong.. so just stop thinking like you know anything..
@@gocatoon4591 If you Google the battle it gives you more or less the same account.
I have read the entirety of Carrington’s report. He, of course, could not see over the ridge. The narrative that makes the most sense to me that is more recent demonstrates that Grummond ordered his mounted infantry far beyond the ridgeline. His men were the first to be surrounded by the Indians. Apparently Fetterman tried to rescue that detail and was immediately surrounded. In any case, both Fetterman and Grummond disobeyed Carrington. Carrington never recovered his reputation and Fetterman had a massacre and fort named after him. He was no hero.
What is painfully clear about the Indian war after the Civil War was over is that the US military, especially Sherman, had no idea what so ever how to engage cavalry with cavalry. Nor were the soldiers armed with the best weapons available. At the beginning of the war the cavalry had 7 shot lever action repeating rifles. Those weapons were taken away from the soldiers and replaced re-tooled muskets single shot breach loading Sharps rifles and the cavalry was mostly replaced by mounted infantry (14-20 vs. 8-10 shots per minute). Forty dollars per unit vs. $30 per unit). The best weapons available were Colt pistols and Henry rifles. The Henry held 14 rounds and could fire 28 rounds per minute and cost the same per unit, $40, as the Spencer.
The mounted infantry dismounted when engaged and two men were charged with moving the horses out of the battle area, hence, two less guns fighting. The Indians would surround them and lob arrows into their midst inflicting far more casualties than they took from the muskets.
A horse cost $120 to $140 dollars appease. Save ten dollars per unit on rifles and sacrifice hundreds of horses at three times or more the cost of the horses.
Why? Because during the Civil War cavalry fared poorly against infantry. Different war. Dumb!!!
At the battle of the Little Big Horn, the newly minted muskets jammed frequently. The firing rate of arrows was superior to any of the rifles available.
The Texas Rangers figured all this out and had Colt make them pistols that they used very effectively against the Indians in Texas, so it wasn’t like no one knew how to beat the Indian cavalry.
The US military's attitude regarding firepower continued all the way through the Korean War. Soldiers were expected to be marksmen, and the were issued long-range, accurate rifles with a slow rate of fire. It took a long time to realize that bullets were a lot cheaper than soldiers, and that if you wanted to win a battle you needed to overwhelm the enemy with concentrated fire.
@@DK-gy7ll The Colt revolving rifles at the battle of Chickamauga is a classic example that should have taugt that lesson. "Units continued to arrive on Horseshoe Ridge and extended the line, most importantly a regiment that Brannan had requested from Negley's division, the 21st Ohio. This unit was armed with five-shot Colt revolving rifles, without which the right flank of the position might have been turned by Kershaw's 2nd South Carolina at 1 p.m. Historian Steven E. Woodworth called the actions of the 21st Ohio "one of the epic defensive stands of the entire war."[89] The 535 men of the regiment expended 43,550 rounds in the engagement."
There are much better accounts of these men with their repeating Colt rifles. Many Union officers carried Henry rifles and Colt pistols. Contrary to what many contemporary people say, the Colt pistols could be reloaded while riding a horse as they used paper cartridges not loose powder like the reenactors use. I've made similar cartridges and shot them in a replica of a Colt 1851 Navy. The Texas Rangers reloaded their Colt Paterson revolvers on their horses. Some Civil War cavalry were able to reload their Spencer rifles while riding.
P.s. I have written two three novels about the post Civil War West that have some grain of truth to them reguarding the use of Colt pistols and Henry rifles by cowboys and settlers: The French Lady's Cowboys, A Pocket Full of Stones, and Guts, Guns, and Glory; all available on Kindle at Amazon.
Failed to read Murphy's Laws of Combat item 13. If your attack is going really well, it’s an ambush.
Thank you...
Thanks for a thoughtful recounting of an American tragedy. I subscribe to the school of thought that Captain Fetterman crossed to the north of Lodge Trail Ridge, disobeying Col. Carrington's orders in the process, to try to help the cavalry who had been ordered ahead and into an ambush by the rash Lt. Grummond. As you pointed out, the people with an agenda wrote the history of this sad encounter.
Really good stuff have you done any work on the Modoc Indian wars
Great recounting, thanks!
Awesome narrative, great job.
Thank you for the video , to see the actual location on film where this took place adds to the written accounts. I read the book ‘ The Fetterman Massacre over forty years ago , a great book , but can’t remember the author .
Really well crafted.
Custer is better remembered because his widow was a formidable one woman public relations firm.
Fantastic! Thank you!
What would be nice is a scale of miles in the area of which we are speaking.
One can presume all this took place between - 3-5 miles - from the fort?
Thanks again!
Excellent presentation.
Great account of this battle. My only criticism is continually referring to mounted troops as Calvary instead of Cavalry.
I have a Uberti Henry in .44WCF. It is definitely the M4 of its day. The round isn't as powerful as a .45/70 or .45/55, but out to 150 yds is powerful enough to drop a deer.
With several folks who have experience with it, they could put down an amount of fire that would slow down any attack. Some have stated that the reload is too awkward: true one has to withdraw the follower and drop the rounds down the tube, but firing in relays (a few engaging while the others reload behind cover) would be effective-certainly in 19th century terms.
That's good, but a high-volume rifle requires a high-volume ammo supply. The Henry is only as effective as its ammo supply. It is superior in the short term when using this rapid rate of fire, but without ammo wagons/mules, you are limited by what you can carry. This is also true for single-shot rifles. You are as effective as a single-shot rifle if you are forced to make every shot count due to a lack of ammo resupply. And if the single-shot rifle has greater stopping power and accuracy at longer ranges, you are at a disadvantage at that point. It also cannot take a bayonet.
Never under estimate your enemy.
Very well done, thank you…
Excellent Documentary
Glad you enjoyed it!