Vent your Rheem or AO Smith Hyrbid Water Heater or Don’t vent - That’s the question!
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
- Today I’m going to talk about venting my Rheem Performance Platinum Hybrid Water Heater and why you would or wouldn’t vent you hybrid water heater. I purchased this unit from Home Depot in Southeastern Pennsylvania. You can also purchase a similar unit to this from Lowes but it will be A.O. Smith Signature Premier 4500-Watt Double Element Electric Water Heater with Hybrid Heat Pump, but the points still apply. Before you watch a video on how to vent a hybrid water heater I’d watch this and determine if you want to vent your hybrid water heater. This will give you all the reasons you would want to vent your hybrid water heater.
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Nice presentation on the building science of this, and combustion safety concerns from negative pressure! Excited to install our Rheem heat pump water heater (in our garage) soon! ;)
Thank you!!! Your videos have helped a lot, I can't wait to get one now!!! I live in GA and the cool air will help the AC kw burden in the hot humid summers here!
Glad I could help! Hope it all works out !
-Mike
I vented my Rheem to the outside. Its in a 2 car garage, and I'm in the PNW. It's often under 40° outside, and I have a garage gym. I don't like working out in a sub-50° garage in the wintertime. It was nice in the hot summers, but unbearable in the winter. I'm glad I did, and have had no issues. I have noticed zero negative pressure issues. ymmv
Nice video content. Most people don't consider where the makeup air has to come from if they decide to only vent the discharge air. These water heaters are not the best choice for every home but are a great choice for some homes.
Well said! "These water heaters are not the best choice for every home but are a great choice for some homes."
BINGO
This video is super helpful. Thanks!
Thankyou - appreciate the comment !
I live in the Chicago area, so cold winters and limited hot and humid days in summer. My plan is to vent the cold, dry exhaust air into the attic. I definitely see benefits in any of the seasons. With proper design, insulated duct, and a damper at the attic level, I should be able to prevent cold draughts during winter and condensation in the summer.
Nice job especially noting the negative pressure
Thanks ! Appreciate it. I think the negative pressure thing should be considered.
You need to vent both the air intake and output. This avoids the negative pressure issue. You also would want flapper valves so during the summer, air is no longer exchanged from outside, so you get free air conditioning.
yep !
Another thing to consider about venting conditioned air from the water heater to a warmer area is condensation dripping from the metal ductwork. You would need to have insulation on the inside or outside of the ductwork to eliminate this possibility.
GREAT POINT !! make sense !
I live in Minnesota. My situation is I had two electric water heaters (large whirlpool tub in master bathroom and 4 bathrooms) My water heaters were in the same room as my 98% gas furnace. The home is built very tight without any HRV/ERV so venting in and out of the cavity is very difficult. I also have condensation issues on the windows in the winter. My solution for the cold air from the Heat pump is ducting the cold air to the furnace ducting. There is a ducting with a valve off of the water heater. Cold air is ducted to the return side during the winter (Heating season) and supply side during the summer season (Cooling season).
How is that working out. My electric heater is 10 years old so I am doing some proactive research. I'm also in Minnesota and your solution crossed my mind. It's it working for you?
for you condensation, a dehumidifier comes to mind
@@jroalan It's working out pretty well so far.
@@williamnunez9609 The heat pump mode on the water heater acts as a central dehumidifier, that is why it is tied into the HVAC system.
@@Matt-nr3nx but does it only activate when water needs heating while a direct dehumidifier acts upon programmed percent requested or did you mod it to be able to act like its direct
Use an intake that also comes from outside. Even in the winter it will still pull heat from the air. Or vent to a warmer place in the house for circulation
just like a mini split does pulling heat out of outside coldness. very cool
Did you measure the cold air exhaust at the unit? I haven’t found that information yet
How about using flexible duct and in the summer months to draw the hot air from the attic space or garage (assuming you're not running your car in the garage) and the blow cold air into the house? In the cold months just swap input and output vents and now you're drawing warm air from the home and blowing cold air into cold attic.
My water heater is in the crawl space (no way to put is elsewhere). What are the pros and cons for venting? The crawl space is warm, especially in the winter when the oil furnace is running. I get some heating there because the ducting is in the crawl space.
Tricky business installing this heat pump inside the house, lots of considerations to think about. I'm installing in my unconditioned garage and will pull air from outside. I live in a 4 season climate and want two things: a cooler garage in the summer, and warmer intake air in the winter.
I agree with your reasoning to avoid only venting outside. If you ALSO install an intake vent you avoid the negative pressure problems.
During the winter the intake air would be too cold for the heat pump to function, no? It's not the same as a cold climate heat pump.
Good info, will be purchasing a hybrid in the near future and the present heater is located in the hall closet. Plans are to locate the hybrid in the garage but was concerned about it cooling the garage in the winter. Didn’t know about running it in electric mode which would be ideal in the winter and using the hybrid mode in the other times of the year which will be nice to have an air conditioned garage/work area.
AO Smith’s will only run in electric for 48 hrs and then switch back. They also require ambient temp to be above 40. If your garage gets cold your not going to have hot water and 40 degrees is minimum not optimum.
I am and building HVAC design engineer and I really don't think there is a simple answer to this question. There are other factors to consider like what is the local climate. I live in Canada and think the best system is where you would draw in outside air in winter and exhaust air to outside in winter such that it doesn't cool the house down and cause the heating systems to use more energy. That would defeat the whole purpose of investing in energy savings equipment. In summer mode, duct the cool air to a space that would benefit from air conditioning and to keep the air flows balanced, draw the intake air from that same space. Two wye dampers in the supply and exhaust of the unit would be the easiest and then switch positions in spring and fall. Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? I am looking for some feedback from someone who has tried it.
Bill - This would totally work, but you'd have to be in a pretty mild climate to draw outside air in during the winter and at that point it probably wouldn't even make sense to do(in general!). but like you said this is not a one size fits all or simple answer... in theory this would work !
I believe the lowest temp this will draw heat out of the air is 37 degrees and I assume the closer you get to that temp the lower the overall efficiency of the unit. Here it's 37 or lower almost every night from Nov ish - March ish... so for me this wouldn't make sense, but could for someone else !
now, if they could put a inverted heat pump on this, so that the heat pump that could pull heat from 0 degree air, then this would %100 make work !
It is nice in the winter to have air conditioning inside the basement !
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment !!!!
Mike
why not get the hot air from the attic (im from texas) and vent to inside during summer and vent outside in the winter?
Great video. I live in Fla where it is hot most of the year. My new water heater is installed in my garage which is always hot. I just realized, by watching this video, that I basically installed an air conditioner which will cool an uncomfortable area of my house. Am I right?
In Florida it may not cool it down to much but it should definitely help ! It will depend on a few factors like, how big the garage, how much direct sun it gets, how well insulated. But it should help.
Can you let me know how well it does cool it down tho after a few weeks of it running in there ?
Thanks
Mike
u have the most ideal scenario - plenty of hot humid air and not having restrictive ductwork for the unity to pull air thru.
Cool and dehumidify as well.
I am understanding that the heat pump hot water tank makes 3 to 4 times hot water than the electric can, so should we even care if the furnace has to run a little longer ( with any fuel ) to compensate? I would say vent inside unless it is extremely cold out ( meaning the furnace can't keep up ) and then just run the elements on the hybrid hot water tank and block the heat pump operation. We run a heat pump to heat the living space and that means I already get more than one unit of heat from one unit of electric. ( efficiency is dependant on outside air temp)
I was thinking about venting both intake and out to the outside and just shutting the hybrid off when the temp reach 40F.
not a bad idea, but if you're going to turn it off when it gets cold out, why vent it at all ? in the summer it's free (kinda) air conditioning
Thanks,
Mike
Has anyone asked yet what the inrush current is when the heat pump first starts up? Comparable to a 5000 BTU A/C maybe?
Can you make a video on how to duct it? I could not find a single video on RUclips on the subject. I’m in the south and would like to duct it into my house for extra savings in 100 degree summer days but am not sure how make the entry into the house. My water heater is in the garage next to kitchen, so I was thinking of venting both intake and exhaust from and back into the kitchen. I would need a way to easily switch it to not vent into the house in the winter and not cause insulation issues as well
Here you go ruclips.net/video/2PUW1J11xr8/видео.html
Depending on where you live it might be a good idea to do a Radon test before venting the unit outside and causing a negative pressure environment in the basement.
GREAT POINT!!! i can’t believe i forgot to mention that and i’m crazy about radon. I even have a digital meter.
@@FamilyDIYtv if you vented to outside, would this not help vent radon which hangs out near ground level?
I just got one. It's in a closet inside the laundry room. Closet has doors, and so does laundry room. So it's behind two sets of doors and effectively separate from the interior of the house. The closet has holes in the ceiling. I was going to suck air from Attic (holes in ceilings) and then vent it to the house during summer. Should I also vent it back up the attic during winter? Or down into the crawl space?
I'm not sure.
I don’t see why that wouldn’t work ! If pulling from attic I’d be inclined to install an additional filter. Maybe …
When it gets real cold does you Electric heat pump have to use resistance/emergency heat?
Steve yes it does. I have a nest thermostat
if you have central air, the ERV actually prevents heat loss while maintaining air balance, so blowing the cold air outside is balanced. ERV's really arn't expensive ($1k). Also, if you are strategic, and vent warm air generated by appliances (under fridge, heatpump dryer are good examples), your actually removing unwanted heat from your home and balancing your house. My opinion is that if you setup to vent during the winter, and put two control vanes to vent outside in the winter, and inside during the summer, the minimal heat loss is far smaller then the energy benefits, even if you have to run your hvac hotter to compensate (especially if your running a heatpump hvac). Lastly, the likelyhood of pulling gas fumes into your house is nearly zil. All gas powered devices either have their own built in fan, have a closed vent to the outside or have a fan hood thats typically much closer to the burn source then your heatpump would ever be. Gas is like water, it will follow the path of least resistance and closest source.
effectively*, separate the heat pump from the storage tank and locate the heat exchangers outside....by ducting both the exhaust AND the intake to the outside. A winter duct and a summer duct arrangement would be ideal . Most heat pumps (water heaters..not newer tech mini splits) will shut off or and/or lose efficiency around 40 deg F
What about venting the exhaust and the intake? The only concern there is does it get too cold outside for the heat pump to work efficiently...
John - thank for comment man ! This makes sense. The as the temp drops the efficiency of the unit also drops all the way down to 37 degrees. Below 37 the unit won't work. So in my case this isn't going to work but could for others ! Thanks again - Mike !
Does it only put out cold air when the units on, or does run or put cold out an estimated amount of hours per day ?
Artem, it only blows the cold air when it's running, but I don't know how long it actually runs. I'd be guessing - thinking maybe 3-4 hrs, but honestly don't know.
Thanks for the comment !
Mike
Some people put in a mini split heater to make up the difference in heat because mini splits are extremely efficient. They work just like your hybrid water heater.
I’ve seen this but seems crazy to me to install another appliance to counteract the negative impact of another appliance. But I get your point 100 percent and appreciate the comment !
At that point I’m thinking it would make more sense to just use a standard electric water heater, but in the end I guess it depends on what exactly each person goal was…. Like everything, most solutions need to fit each person specific requirements.
Happy New year !
Mike
Even adding a minisplit is still more efficient than using resistance heating elements, I plan on using a minisplit water heater but you can't find those in a big box store.
Wouldn’t it be great if you could connect it to your refrigerator somehow. Refrigerator vents heat, hot water tank vents cold. They would work together nicely.
Travis - agree 100%. I don't have anywhere in my home where I can steal heat from - now. The fridge is currently against a wall that's being removed in the next few months. Maybe after the remodel I'll duct it from my fridge. Great idea sir !
Thanks- Mike
I sort of do that. I have my same exact HPWH in a storage room which is connected to the house on the other side of the wall from my kitchen. I ran ductwork from my kitchen to pull out air from behind my refrigerator for the water heater and for the winter I exhausted into the storage room. I have a central air register also in that wall so the storage room doesn't become pressurized. In the summer I run the exhaust back in behind the refrigerator and have a duct that runs to an open cabinet over the refrigerator so it's like free air conditioning in the kitchen. Originally I pulled air out of the hot attic and just dumped into the storage room in the summer but decided making the water heater the less efficient in the summer would be worth the trade off for cooling the kitchen more and making my mini splits load a little lighter. I found the HPWH used around $10 of electricity when I had it pulling from the attic, pulling from the house to use closer to $20. Also in the Philly suburbs
but, in Winter, you really want that fridge heat to warm the place, if not fridge your furnace will heat the house, in summer it definitely makes sense.
Clothes dryer vent would be a great source. You'd need a good filter but it could work if set up as a "T". And your house would smell nice. I've always been annoyed at pumping all that hot air outside in the winter when the dryer is running.
My waterheater and refrigerator are now in an intimate relationship.
I have an unused chimney just above the water heater. It previously served the gas water heater and furnace. I could cut the chimney in the attic, cap the roof part and leave the rest open to the attic. Then use that for intake air to the water heater. When the sun is up, the attic air has a lot of heat for the heat pump to extract. It's preheated outside air. Then I can vent the exhaust too.
Sounds like a neat option. I would run a duct through the chimney..
Did you try this? Did it work. I also have an unused chimney that goes up through the attic.
I just got a new replacement from rheem for my 4 yo tank that went out. It has the new easier venting to i am venting the cold air 12 ft away into the storage room with all of our canned goods a deep freezer and a fridgerator. The airflow is the same. I am debating running a warm air intake vent from the main floor right above it behind the upstairs refridgerator. It would pull warm air down from the fridge, vent to the same basement area just a different room and seeing as the basement barely has enough return vents as is this should just improve airflow.
not a bad idea to run behind refrigerator !
How many CFM does it need to move?
We have hard water in our area and my plumber told me not to connect a water softener to it because it would destroy the anode rod quicker. I have not been able to find research into this. Do you have any ideas?
Yes, here a white paper on it
www.hotwater.com/lit/bulletin/bulletin61.pdf
Thanks for watching and thanks for comment!
So when taking a shower only half the water will be softened.
Mike
Mine is in the garage and I am sick of freezing cold air in the garage. The air outside is almost always warmer than that cold air this thing puts in the garage! It is wide open to the outdoors so there certainly isn’t any negative pressure to speak of. Why not just tell people that if the air outdoors is usually warmer than the air where this thing is sitting, and it is not hard for them to leave a window open or whatever, then it’s an obvious win to vent it. I was hoping for some advice on how to vent the darn thing, this AO Smith one has a huge Output port.
Same negative pressure occurs when using a bathroom fan or oven hood. Make up air is drawn into the house through any door or window seal, other vents, chimneys, wall sockets, wall switches or ceiling penetrations. I have a heat pump water heater in a lower level mechanical room and it was getting very cold in there despite being next to the gas fired furnace. The builder was suppose to put in venting for the water heater but never did. Fortunately I have a HRV system in the same room that I was able to tap into for exhaust and make up air. Any cold intake air coming in from outside goes into the HRV unit and is filtered then into the furnace to be heated in cold weather and the cold air form the heat pump is expelled outside. This balances the pressure. Haven't lived in he house in the summer yet but the plan is to divert warm filtered outside air into the room and exhaust cold heat pump air into the house. This has required some additional ducting and Y fitting but is working efficiently.
sounds like an AWESOME setup ! i'm jealous :)
I hope to be purchasing a hybrid water system soon to replace a propane fired hot water tank, and my intention is to vent the new unit into the hvac ducting …. The dehumidifier benefits of the new unit will benefit the entire house in summer and the furnace/heat pump will quickly reheat the house. My only concern in noise levels.
Did you see this ?
ruclips.net/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/видео.html
@@FamilyDIYtv thanks …… 67db in the basement, under the main living space doesn’t sound like a horrible amount ….. and knowing it can be programmed will help control the cycling. Thanks again!!
What's the average temperature of the heat pump's exhaust? If it's significantly colder than outside maybe it's still worth ducting it outdoors and exchanging it for outside air.
no doubt - it's definitely a case by case decision.
~30F is what mine exhausts air at.
I live in Florida and want to keep the cool air inside. I have an ac vent almost directly above where my new hybrid will go. Can you vent the cold air into the ac vent?
scott - yes you can vent either the intake or the exhaust or both
@@FamilyDIYtv Thanks. It would be great in the summer though I’m not sure how effective. But then when I run the heat, it would be counterproductive?
But no house is airtight especially with any kind of functional fireplace which vents out the top of the house and it seems as though there would be no way to suck air fumes or gas because of the vast outside atmosphere, but maybe if your heat pump for your house is close to your water heater you could vent your water heater to your home heatpump / furnace into the cold air intake and leave the water heater intake as is that way you are still maintaining the interior house pressure basically the same except the water heater and home heater work together? I would think there would be a low or no cost way to accomplish that. Just a thought.
Any thoughts on using a hybrid water heater for in-floor radiant heat? I’m designing a system for a 1,000sqft woodshop and dont have access to gas, so a hybrid water heater would be much more efficient than an electric tank or tankless system. I’m concerned about the cold air, the workshop is only 1 room, so it would likely cool it down quite a bit while trying to heat the floors….
That would be my fear, you’d be heating the floor but cooling the air ! Also, I don’t know how good it would work for that application. You might have to run it in high demand mode the entire time, which runs the coils and the heat pump. Can you get propane ?
Split the difference and set your water heater to high demand mode. That will only run the upper element until the setpoint is achieved and continue to run the heat pump portion until the setpoint is achieved on the lower portion of the tank.
Very interesting... I might try this, I appreciate the idea ! Thanks - Mike
I've been doing this for a few months ! Interesting/ Great idea ! Let's just say - good results !!! Video in the making . Thankyou. And there definitely will be a shout out !!!
can you please explain the idea a little more? I'm new to this stuff and just learning. I had one of these installed today
@@FamilyDIYtv can you plz address my question ?
@@robbybaggio4007 what exactly is your question? i’ll try to help.
thanks
Mike
Do you think the ideal spot for these are in the house or garage?
i'd say it depends where your located and the climate. if your in a warm climate, i'd say garage !
@@FamilyDIYtv I would think you would want to put it inside in a warm climate. Free cooling/dehumidifier that would just be lost to your garage. unless you want a cool dry garage, which if you use your garage a lot makes sense.
@@ljakeupl Put it in the garage so it doesn't rob any heat from the conditioned space in winter
hi, I plan to go with Rheem hybrid water heater, currently had gas water heater. What do you think get the heat from Attic? I am in San Diego.
Probably great idea. I’d just double check the model your getting to ensure It’s okay in the attic.
If the unit (water heater) is in the same room as your dryer, maybe consider using a dryer deflection device, exughts the warm hot air from dryer and use it to heat the watef
How would you do that?
Don’t do that you don’t want any kind of lint or dirt in the heat pump which is filtered and should be filtered regularly
Intake from the attic which will pull in cooler outside air from your soffit, and exhaust into your return.
Cooler attic and cooler living space.
Win win
I get it, but my dryer also vents to the outside. I never noticed an indraft issue when the dryer is running.
Agree ! Just consider your dryer doesn’t run all the time, also a dryer vent is 4inch duct. Water heater is 8 inch duct.
Hey it’s just a consideration amount many other things.
Do you !
Mike
audio is a bit hard to hear when you are turning away from the mic
Just installed a 50gal Rheem hpwh last week. I chose to install in series upstream of my indirect water heater that runs off gas boiler. Hpwh is located next to two chest freezers in an open 1700 square ft basement built in the late 1950s in upstate NY. I chose not to vent air and use existing basement air what ever ambient is available. I now have 82gal of available hot water (36 indirect and 46hpwh) to do battle with my wife and 2 daughters. I can dehumidify basement by heating or preheating hot water depending on demand. Tank is set for heat pump only at factory setpoint of 120. So far the basement has dropped in temp 7 degrees to 65 and have turned off dehumidifier. I piped water heaters in such a fashion to run in series or each isolated and independent for servicing with bypasses. Will update as time goes on.
Guy, sound like a neat setup. With 1,700 sqft it may not cool it down as much as it did mine, but your already seeing 7 degree drop... jeez... let me know how it turns out ! Thanks for watching and thanks for comment !!!
Mike
is that 7 degrees in the summer or winter? or both? I am worried about pipes freezing if my cool storage space (where I plan on exhausting) drops 7 degrees in in the winter!
@@hesmas1 summer, now basement temp is 57° and still working
About negative pressure... I have my Laundry dryer also in the basement and it is pushing out so much hot air. Isn't that causing also a negative air pressure? Sorry, but I do not agree that the "Damage is done when the hot air was pulled into the water heater" There is more cooling done when it blows the cold air in the same area.
Hugo - yep, technically the dryer is causing negative pressure, so is your range vent as well as your shower fans but these are required to vented outside, cant avoid it. Furthermore, they're not running nearly as much as a water heater, as well as they're not vented through a 8 inch duct ! that big ! that's a lot of air ! i respect you not agreeing... cold is the absence of heat.. ...so it not my opinion. Thanks for watching, please keep commenting ..
Appreciate it ...
Mike
i've had an updated model of this hybrid water heater in place (in basement utility room) for a few weeks and did put 8" non-flexible ductwork between the unit's air intake and my kitchen a few days ago. based on the app's electric usage report, pulling in warmer air from the kitchen hasn't really helped that much, if at all. it could be because the gains from the warmer air are offset by the unit's fans having to work harder to pull air from further away and thru a register opening that is more restricted (aka a bottleneck) than the approx 50 sq inches of passageway in the 8" diameter ductwork between the unit and the kitchen register. it's also more difficult to couple between rheem's newer model and your ductwork cuz they no longer have a nice circular input/output to attach to as seen in this guy's model. my theory is rheem made it less convenient in a money-grab attempt to sell more of their overpriced vent "kits".
this guy worries about the negative pressure (a valid point) this unit would create if u push it's cold air to the outside but most of us have clothes dryers that run at least once weekly that pull a ton of air from the house then pushes it outside, essentially doing the exact same thing, from a negative pressure perspective. with that in mind, i wouldn't let the pressure change influence me 1 way or the other. the bigger concern is the work involved in putting yet another hole into the home's exterior wall and crowding even more ductwork into what is often an already overcrowded utility room.
I can appreciate the dryer comment but who says the dryer isn't a concern ? Also, the hybrid water heater vent is twice the size and I'm not 100% sure of this, but i believe the bigger the duct, the movement of air is exponential, meaning a 8 inch duct doesn't move twice as much as a 4inch duct, it's move 3 times or more (but not 100% sure of this-lol).
Also, another thing to keep in mind, what about the dyer, hybrid water heater and range hood vent running at the same time??? i don't know... is it a concern ? should it be considered ?
I also have commented to other, is the juice worth the squeeze... we need to measure what's gained out of ducting vs not, in my case it wasn't worth it.
Thanks for comment
Mike
@@FamilyDIYtvyou're right that it's exponential but I think flow is proportional to the square of the diameter (due to area). So you have to compare the ratio and square that. (8/4)^2=4 so there's actually 4 times the flow given everything else is the same.
How loud is the heat pump it when it’s running?
Hey Wayne, it's not to bad. I'd say it a tad louder than a microwave.
Thanks for watching !
Mike
We have a GE in the basement (I think they got out of the heat-pump water heater game). It's a 30s house, so it doesn't have all the insulation of a modern house, and you can definitely hear it upstairs. It's louder than the fridge, if you're in the kitchen, listening (water heater almost directly below, in basement), but we definitely were able to get used to it, and it didn't run that often (2 people, morning showers). I'd say if you're super-
sensitive to new/more noise, maybe not... unless your utility space was far away and/or well insulated from the living area.
ERV are still pulling in cold air it does nothing for efficiency. They HEAT the incoming air but it’s still the same thing
How much did it cool down the area it is in?
Here ya go, sorry missed your comment
ruclips.net/video/ikt3yfNQoKY/видео.html
Others already mentioned ducting both intake and vent, so I'll skip that.
Did you run any calculations to decide if the makeup heat from your heating system was more expensive than placing the water heater in resistance mode? Yes, venting outdoors will cause cold air from outside to come in, but it may be cheaper to just accept that and let the heating system work a little harder than making the water heater work entirely in resistance mode. Also, the air that comes back in will come from lots of little cracks in your home, so it should make the space feel more comfortable than having all that cold air vented in one spot indoors.
Caveat: not a good solution if anyone in the family suffers from allergies.
Another possible solution: insulation. The unit needs 1,000 cubic feet of space to operate properly. I can't really tell from your video the layout of the space, but maybe there is a way to contain it to that 1k cf and simply insulate that space so it's not stealing heat from the rest of your basement. Then stick some of your heat producing equipment (fridges, freezers, inverters, server equipment, etc.) in there with it and you've got a nice little symbiotic ecosystem.
Yes, if your heating system is much more efficient than resistive electric heat, that heating system will help save $$$
You can reverse engineer this problem so to speak. Take the kWh hours it takes to heat the water to the set temperature for say a winter month. Those BTU’s need to come from somewhere. Then solve for that.
Another possible better solution might be a split system heat pump like the one sold by Sanco which uses CO2 as the refrigerant. The units are more expensive but the current Federal Tax Credit plus any State or Utility Incentives might still give you a great payback period.
Have you ever had a T132 error? If anyone has had issues please reply. Rheem has sent me a new control and thermistors but still get the T132 error.
Richard I have not had the error. Sorry man ! Good luck.
Did you fix this issue? Looks like it mean water heater can’t satisfy demand, very odd error ! Did you fix it ?
@@FamilyDIYtv No I haven’t. Rheem said if the thermistors didn’t work then I need to replace the unit. Now they have changed their mind and advised me to use high demand mode which increase kW usage to 9-10+ kW a day. We are only 2 people. I use less energy but using electric only mode.
Make the basement a food storage cellar. Cold is perfect.
agree
I appreciate your video for how real it is. Ignore the armchair quarterbacks.
If you have a gas furnace, a water heater heat pump is just transferring the heating load to your furnace so you are still in effect heating with gas (since it is pulling heated air warmed by gas).
If you heat your house with a heat pump, you just need to take into account the additional thermal load when sizing your home heat pump.
So only operate in electric mode, this defeats the purpose for a piece of technology (heat pump) that returns 3.75 to 4 times return of a $1 vs. an electric resistance heater at 0.7 to 0.9 (loss). Thanks though for the video and trying to look deeper, only way to get better.
This is correct ! It’s a trade off, do I want comfort or savings from this unit. Unfortunately, I can’t have both in the coldest few months of the year. Unless I come up with some other solution.
I have some other ideas I might try this winter
Mike
I'm thinking you take air from the attic, or crawlspace... exhaust it *inside* in the summer, and *outside* in the winter... I think the HVAC pros have tools that would measure the flow of air, how leaky your house is, etc. It's hard for me to imagine the heat pump pulling so much air that it sucks exhaust gas from the stove/fireplace so much that it's a problem... esp. if it's in another part of the house. Gas stoves & ovens *do* create a certain amount of pollution that stays in the house, and for efficiency we're supposed to be moving to *induction* anyhow (though these units are ridiculously expensive, unless you buy the single-burner ones... they work great, btw). Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching and thanks for comment !
Mike
i've spent a few weeks drawing up various ways to direct the input/output air to the most advantageous place, depending on the season. sadly this approach takes a lot of ductwork and multiple T's with embedded baffles that would need to be flipped twice annually. getting a tight internal fit on the baffles is a challenge too given what's commonly available in the marketplace. i love the idea of doing this (negative/positive pressures aside) but so far haven't come up w/ a clean enuf way to pull it off.
Dude. If you’re just going to run it on electric resistance mode, there’s no reason to have a heat pump.
Agree
Thanks
Mike
AO Smiths won’t let you run on resistance mode for more than 48 hrs. Dude, Running in electric mode waster money and the difference in exhaust is MINIMAL compared to running in resistance.
Doesn't solve your winter time blues, but you could technically duct this thing right into your outbound HVAC ducting for warmer months, then turn on your HVAC's fan to distribute the cold air through the house rather than running the AC; saving you money in the summer. Keep the basement door open of course to pull the hot air down to the basement. You could also throw a freezer chest in the basement next to the water heater, then the heat from the freezer will be sucked up by the water heater, hopefully helping to balance the amount of cold air dispersing through your basement. People really should consider getting rid of their gas stoves and replace them with an induction stove.
I did this. IT works
I live near Charlotte, NC - so it a lot warmer than the NE US. I have mine installed in the utility room in garage - and I have a 8 inch duct that pulls hot air from the attic (I have a ranch style house - single story). I monitor the inlet and outlet temps with sensors - and normally only let the unit run between noon and 6PM (when the attic is at its highest temp). During the winter I cut that back to between noon and 5PM. I use Emporia to monitor my usage - and as the summer here gets hotter my hot water cost goes lower. Last week my usage was down to around 8KWH - or 8 cents worth of power. During my normal heating time in the afternoon the inlet air temp is above 110 degree (should be close to 120 tomorrow - outside temp is suppose to be around 91). My highest weekly cost was back in February - where one week it hit 33KWH ($3.30). When my attic is below 45 degrees during the afternoon (during the winter) I normally just set the Rheems on electric strips - just to keep the heat pump from struggling for hours. I'm retired - it just my wife and I - so our hot water requirements are low - most folks should expect to pay more. On how much I save with the Rheems - the last 2 months (warmer months) my power bill from the local utility was around $25 less for each of those bills than compared to a year ago - when I heated with the traditional electric hot water heater. I would expect the current usage for this month to be at least $30 lower. These are kind of guessimates at this time - I can compare power bills 12 months ago - but I don't know if those months were colder or warmer compared to now - but it should be pretty close...I'm very happy with the Rheem hybrid - but it not for everyone...
Can you say more about your attic inlet? Presumably it's got a screen of some sort?
Actually installing a screen would be a good idea but no - I'm using the one built into the HP...
Hello, Thanks for your information . I'm curious how you controlled when it can run . I'm on solar power and about to install one of these and would like to control it's run time also . Thanks for your help.
Thinking about what you said about negative air within your home , Home air input and output considerations should ALWAYS be taken into account. Simple terms , Fireplace , Why do you smell it when you walk into your home. 1- have to many fans 400 cfm in your home sucking the air out of your home. You need to add air intakes to ballance the possible air flow. So, with the Air pump on the hot water tank , I would NOT vent it outside. Let it circulate and keep the air flow equal . (nothing in or out of your home) Simple calculated air adjustments.
yep !
The best location is in a wash/utility room on a ground floor with average room temperature that's about 100 square feet.
Heat Exchanger! Problem solved. ;-)
Great video but I would suggest that for at least one hour a day you bring the temperature up to 140 degrees. This is the minimum temperature to kill bacteria. This will prevent any issues and potential health problems. This unit has the settings that you can change the temperature around makes this simple and will still keep it efficient. The higher temperature of 140 is most beneficial probably around the time you might run a dishwasher as well.
120 is enough to keep legionella and other bacteria based diseases away and still saves you money
This is the first I've heard of this... can you cite some sources? Unless one was on a well, I wouldn't have thought this would be a problem... and even so, don't they say your chicken needs to reach 160 inside? Another thought, if you *did* have a problem with bacteria might be UV... they use them in fish ponds, but as with the earlier comment, I don't ever remember hearing about this kind of thing for residential supply. Thanks.
VENT THE INTAKE ON A SPLIT. WHEN IS HOT OUTSIDE, GET THE AIR FROM THE OUTSIDE OR FROM A HOT ATTIC. WHEN IT'S COLD OUTSIDE, CHANGE IT AT THE SPLIT AND TAKE IT FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE. NOW, FOR VENTING OUT THE "COLD", WELL, LET YOUR IMAGINATION RUN WILD !!! YOU COULD VENT IT OUT TO A HOT GARAGE!!! YOU COULD USE A SPLIT FOR VENTING OUT THE COLD AIR TOO.
THIS IS NOOOOT COMPLICATED!!!
THE NOISE IS NOT AN ISSUE. PUT THE TRIM ON THAT DOOR AND EVERYTHING IS GOOD.
BEST!
i feel like you might have not watched the whole video , i explained exactly why i’m not venting mine outside. it may work for you and thousands of other people and i think that’s great ! but like most issues/problems this is not a 1 size fits all solution, you need to take every situation, understand nuances and make best decision for that exact situation/problem. i appreciate the comment tho ! thanks again -Mike
also - running a 8 inch duct from a basement to an attic that’s two stores above the water heater does seem complicated or running an 8 inch duct to a garage is complicated, at least to me it does. maybe not for new build, but for a retro fit application, this is allot of work.
again, thanks for comment ! -Mike
@@FamilyDIYtv I agree with you . My comment was more for others that want to try it differently. Also, my approach is more suitable for a new build.
I did watch the whole video and I do understand your reasoning - I agree with you.
Thanks for showing us your videos and for trying things for me to watch!
Venting to the garage will put a large hole in the firewall (literally) between your home and garage and will not pass a home inspection.
But the question is how cool of temperature are we talking about?
58 degrees !!!
But why buy and install a hybrid water heater to then use it as a plain old electric water heater? It costs 5X as much to run, and the hybrid water heater purchase price is about 3X as much!
All the reasons are in the videos my man. Do you have one ?
negative pressure isn't an issue in a house with an ERV and a tight envelope
Agree, if a house has an ERV that's correct, but mine doesn't. Maybe one day !
So without ERV, I'm not venting.
Thanks,
Mike
In your other video of the update, I linked you to how the negative air pressure can be addressed. ruclips.net/video/saz8ci4WUsc/видео.html
agree 100%, retro fit ERV without some pretty big mods to the house is not really possible, but appreciate the comment and you watching !!!
I actually talking about this in the video.
Thanks again for watching,
Mike
You clearly didn't do your due diligence prior to investing in this unit , you need a minimum envelope for which to operate this unit in or you need it to be ducted! So Add a short piece of 8 inch duct on top within 3 inches of the ceiling, extend the discharge within 8 inches of the floor. Keep the door to that space ajar...
1. Look up the definition of assumption…
2. The unit has about 1,000 sqft “envelope” to pull from
3. False, mine doesn’t need to be ducted but agree, in some cases it needed.
Hope you’re having a happy holiday and great new year ! Wooo
Mike
Shazam!
Warning; Rheem Scam!! Rheem sells their Plus model in Platinum boxes. This happened to me with the water heater I bought at Home Depot.
Could this just have been a mix up on their end?
It's not just Rheem. I bought an AO Smith from big-box... they make them more cheaply for these outlets, and the accessories for the "real ones" don't fit the "big box" ones. Scandalous.
So at the end of the video you say you only use electric mode, not hybrid. Why buy a hybrid in the 1st place as it's substantially more expensive than a standard electric tank? Makes no sense. Also too paranoid about negative pressure if venting outside. Sure newer homes are more air tight, but I have an older house & there's plenty of outside air leaking in even without cracking open a window to compensate. I have a forced air natural gas furnace that pulls considerably more air than the little fan of the heat pump on the hybrid water heater. I concede the furnace is a closed loop as air is pulled from indoor registers & pushed back into the house. The bigger issue is the oxygen being used up burning the gas. I recall almost 20 years ago living in eastern Canada they came up with a new code requirement where we had to install a duct from outside to the gas furnace for fresh air. The duct was placed next to the furnace near the intake. My new Rheem isn't vented yet, it's in the basement. I do plan to pull air from the kitchen during the winter to try & gain a bit of efficiency from the heat pump as the basement will be much colder. Next summer I'll look at running an outlet duct to the living room for cooling.
I've explained why i used electric mode this in my other videos, but I now use high demand mode in winter and hybrid in summer. yeah, all new gas furnaces have fresh air intake and exhaust, so they're basically a closed loop system. I always wonder why someone with a gas furnace would install an electric water heater, this never made sense to me BUT i understand there's cases where this makes sense. this stuff is never 1 size fits all...
I'd be interested to hear how your duct project goes and when you do it if you feel it was worth it, like was the juice worth the squeeze. Good luck with your project, interested to hear how it turned out !!
Mike
There’s a new video of a guy venting his hybrid water heater to a vent and/or venting it outside in the winter. I think he is wasting time and money but either way it’s a “case study”
Agree 100 percent but I'd be interested in seeing his results! We're all learning !
I obviously have an opinion on this but not everyone's scenario is the same and there's definitely not a one size fits all. So we'll see ... I hope it works out for him !
Thanks for your comment!
Mike
Wtf?
Way too babbly...
Your video is NOT that well thought through. All you talk about is venting OUTSIDE, what about venting to another, WARMER, part of the house INSIDE. Also what about venting the intake FROM THE HOT ATTIC? Very poor video
Thankyou !
Why not create a "y" vent that would evacuate the cold air outside and pull outside air through that vent to balance the pressure? you might need to put another fan on the outside of the house on one end of that y to get it to circulate correctly. That should work. I think having your water heater in a separate utility room would be helpful as well.
Mine is in a separate storage room but instead of venting outside I originally pulled hot air from my steaming hot attic in the summer and exhausted into that storage room, the door to the storage room leads outside and it had a vent in it to eliminate the pressure issues. And the winter I adapted to pulling hot air from the kitchen behind my refrigerator and exhausting in the storage room. I put a 14x8-in central air register in that one wall to balance the pressure. In the summer I run the exhaust in behind the refrigerator and up to a cabinet to cool the kitchen. It's less efficient than pulling from the attic but it helps the air conditioning load and the kitchen is a bit of a warm spot. In the winter I just steal heat from the Mitsubishi mini splits, it's still more efficient and regular electric resistant mode
@@chrisd4432 that's awesome!