Yes the cord is abandoned at the end of the abseil. Best practise is to remove any old or worn cord on arriving at any abseil position which reduces the amount of material left on the mountain.
Great video. You are superb at explaining fairly complex information on camera. That is a rare skill! Also great set up! However, I do wonder why you didn't include a rappel ring? If, somehow, your main line started running under load (even a little bit), that 6mm accessory chord would melt through real quick. Now, I grant you that if your main line is running through you are probably screwed anyway. But, I think its always a commonsense idea to avoid rope to rope connections wherever feasible. Great job again!
ive watched a couple of videos and they are brilliant ive seen this same absail set up its brilliant but i got taught to go through the top and bottom loops on ur harness not ur belay loop so you are connected by a larch hitch by 2 strong points rather than one thank you for all your videos
When tying in with a rope you should definitely go through the top and bottom loops; they are designed for this wear (unlike the belay loop). However, when using a sling which is not as resistant to abrasion as a rope it is generally considered better to larks foot the belay loop. If you use the tie-in loops then the sling is rubbed against the loops every time it is loaded, whereas there is no movement if it is only attached in one place. Two strong points is not significantly better than one strong point - you only really care about multiple points when it is two probably strong points vs one probably strong point (e.g. bolts, trad gear, snapgates that could unclip).
+Fishman Fairclough yes that is true. but I wonder if this usage of sling as necessary extension is better than using prusik tied to leg loop. How safe is using sling tied to buckle as the screw gate carbiner gets tied to the sling and not buckle
Worrying about the sling failing spontaneously for no obvious reason should be way, way down your list of potential hazards here :P probably loose rock is the one to worry about... Plus using 6mm cord is safe enough but you do need to be careful with it. If you use the leg loop technique it is better but it is always possible to lift your leg such that you release the prusik (if you invert, for example). This cannot happen if you use this sling-extension technique.
Just a note: there's no chance you'll put enough kN onto the sling to break it from a 2' fall from setting up the belay. 'Shock loading' seems to be largely a myth and was tested by HOWNOT2. Also ALWAYS always tie stopper knots into the end of the rap line so you don't rap off the end of the rope by accident.
That is not true for static material without anything dynamic in the system, and not what HowNot2 has been telling you. See the latest videos for more detail about falling on static attachments to anchors.
i like the video and the rig only thing that would make me nervous was the size of the anchor rope, personally i would use webbing instead or a climbing rope the same diameter as my rapp rope
Climbing rope is great, but it will stretch so will rub a bit more. Static rope is even better. Webbing is fine but when left permanently it degrades due to UV much worse than cord or rope, and it is also less abrasion resistant (as there is no sheath protecting a core. The reason 6mm cord is used here is because it is adequate when used correctly and it is left behind! It is neither cheap nor practical to carry round loads of full-size static rope or webbing for anchors that will be abandoned...
The ropes primary purpose is to protect you on ascent in the event of a fall and shock loading. Going down there should be no shock loading so accessory cord is fine for the anchor
You might have seen the last video when it was a long descent or heavy weight descent ... ... ... ... ... Fixed line Do not apply a knot. Video play times 01:31
When we use the sling (nylon or not) connected to our harness as part of abseil : Is this practise better than connecting the screwgate directly to the harness ? I mean is the sling good enough to absorb shock impacts ?
There should be no shock impacts (although it is so short that it would be effectively impossible to break the sling - you might break though if you go for fall factor 2 :) ). Using the sling allows the safe use of the prusik below the device (much better than above the device).
Nice video and environment. I recommend you to use a rope protector. I've already seen some deads because they didn't use one. Also try to use an angle below 120°.
1, Should have put at leas a mailon (quick link) in if using an accessory cord, they are even cheaper than the cord itself and you don't melt the rope when pulling it down. 2, Is the accessory cord absolutely necessary? 3, For the the end of the rope a simple overhand is not enough it can slip off if you hit it, at least a double fisherman on both ends and even better tying both ends together.
Yes. Part of the reason for this (and the main reason you should never reuse accessory cord which you find abandoned in such a way) is that pulling the rope free creates quite a lot of friction. That friction is focused on a small area of the accessory cord, weakening it substantially, and in some cases even burning right through it.
Good vid but two points: why not use a cheap maillon to avoid rope to rope contact and, why not use a double fisherman's to join the ends of the tat? It is much more reliable than the European death knot shown.
No redundancy… how many ropes do you use climbing? How many climbing harnesses? No rappel ring - amazing how many people using this technique aren’t dead! Not tied in near to the edge… this is mountaineering not dragging. Static connection… stop watching test videos and come back to the real world….
![Scrambling Basics that Every Hiker Should Know [Tips & Techniques]](/img/1.gif)
Yes the cord is abandoned at the end of the abseil. Best practise is to remove any old or worn cord on arriving at any abseil position which reduces the amount of material left on the mountain.
+Glenmore Lodge i was about to ask it. :D
Ian was my instructor when I did a winter mountaineering course at Glenmore several years ago. Ace guy
Great video. You are superb at explaining fairly complex information on camera. That is a rare skill! Also great set up! However, I do wonder why you didn't include a rappel ring? If, somehow, your main line started running under load (even a little bit), that 6mm accessory chord would melt through real quick. Now, I grant you that if your main line is running through you are probably screwed anyway. But, I think its always a commonsense idea to avoid rope to rope connections wherever feasible. Great job again!
So don't make it happen... The cord is abandoned, so using additional gear means losing additional gear.
@andrewmcleod1 a rappel ring is like $5, small price to pay for safety.
Excellent instructional video as usual. Thanks a lot.
Is it explained in any video how do you fold the sling in that practical way?
ive watched a couple of videos and they are brilliant
ive seen this same absail set up its brilliant
but i got taught to go through the top and bottom loops on ur harness
not ur belay loop
so you are connected by a larch hitch by 2 strong points rather than one
thank you for all your videos
When tying in with a rope you should definitely go through the top and bottom loops; they are designed for this wear (unlike the belay loop). However, when using a sling which is not as resistant to abrasion as a rope it is generally considered better to larks foot the belay loop. If you use the tie-in loops then the sling is rubbed against the loops every time it is loaded, whereas there is no movement if it is only attached in one place. Two strong points is not significantly better than one strong point - you only really care about multiple points when it is two probably strong points vs one probably strong point (e.g. bolts, trad gear, snapgates that could unclip).
Cristian Breeze, probably passing the sling through the harness add safety to the sistem. Thanks
The sling gives the prusik clearance if you don't use the sling it could touch other components which could cause it to fail.
+Fishman Fairclough yes that is true. but I wonder if this usage of sling as necessary extension is better than using prusik tied to leg loop.
How safe is using sling tied to buckle as the screw gate carbiner gets tied to the sling and not buckle
Worrying about the sling failing spontaneously for no obvious reason should be way, way down your list of potential hazards here :P probably loose rock is the one to worry about... Plus using 6mm cord is safe enough but you do need to be careful with it. If you use the leg loop technique it is better but it is always possible to lift your leg such that you release the prusik (if you invert, for example). This cannot happen if you use this sling-extension technique.
Just a note: there's no chance you'll put enough kN onto the sling to break it from a 2' fall from setting up the belay. 'Shock loading' seems to be largely a myth and was tested by HOWNOT2.
Also ALWAYS always tie stopper knots into the end of the rap line so you don't rap off the end of the rope by accident.
That is not true for static material without anything dynamic in the system, and not what HowNot2 has been telling you. See the latest videos for more detail about falling on static attachments to anchors.
Thanks
😮😮 nice video
i like the video and the rig only thing that would make me nervous was the size of the anchor rope, personally i would use webbing instead or a climbing rope the same diameter as my rapp rope
Climbing rope is great, but it will stretch so will rub a bit more. Static rope is even better. Webbing is fine but when left permanently it degrades due to UV much worse than cord or rope, and it is also less abrasion resistant (as there is no sheath protecting a core. The reason 6mm cord is used here is because it is adequate when used correctly and it is left behind! It is neither cheap nor practical to carry round loads of full-size static rope or webbing for anchors that will be abandoned...
excellent vid thanks.
What's the point in using ropes, carabineers and anchors with a much higher shock loading threshold than an accessory chord?
The ropes primary purpose is to protect you on ascent in the event of a fall and shock loading. Going down there should be no shock loading so accessory cord is fine for the anchor
You might have seen the last video when it was a long descent or heavy weight descent ... ... ... ... ... Fixed line Do not apply a knot. Video play times 01:31
When we use the sling (nylon or not) connected to our harness as part of abseil : Is this practise better than connecting the screwgate directly to the harness ?
I mean is the sling good enough to absorb shock impacts ?
There should be no shock impacts (although it is so short that it would be effectively impossible to break the sling - you might break though if you go for fall factor 2 :) ). Using the sling allows the safe use of the prusik below the device (much better than above the device).
Nice video and environment.
I recommend you to use a rope protector.
I've already seen some deads because they didn't use one.
Also try to use an angle below 120°.
nice.
What type of rope you use for the abseil? Static or dynamic, and what is the thickness?
dynamic
1, Should have put at leas a mailon (quick link) in if using an accessory cord, they are even cheaper than the cord itself and you don't melt the rope when pulling it down.
2, Is the accessory cord absolutely necessary?
3, For the the end of the rope a simple overhand is not enough it can slip off if you hit it, at least a double fisherman on both ends and even better tying both ends together.
Is the accessory cord abandoned at the end of the abseil?
Yes. Part of the reason for this (and the main reason you should never reuse accessory cord which you find abandoned in such a way) is that pulling the rope free creates quite a lot of friction. That friction is focused on a small area of the accessory cord, weakening it substantially, and in some cases even burning right through it.
good stuff
Good vid but two points: why not use a cheap maillon to avoid rope to rope contact and, why not use a double fisherman's to join the ends of the tat? It is much more reliable than the European death knot shown.
6mm cord tied to the belt keeping me Wranglers up and off I go.
this is the same video as your multi pitch abseil
no redundancy. 6mm cord. no rappel ring. not tied in near the edge. static connection to anchor. this guy is a guide? how is he not dead?
No redundancy… how many ropes do you use climbing? How many climbing harnesses? No rappel ring - amazing how many people using this technique aren’t dead! Not tied in near to the edge… this is mountaineering not dragging. Static connection… stop watching test videos and come back to the real world….
bad practice. when checking if your carabiner is locked, dont click it, but screw.
You need to learn how to do it correct if you are going to try to teach others.