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Destin great interview between you both , I really enjoyed watching with him being a Dev and in the industry, maybe in mai nly PlayStation gamer since , 360 error with red ring of death on 3 machines , I've been moved to PS3 and PS4 and ps5 and then I bought a serious last year played all the halos again and the ones I missed , and that's the main reason why I bought an Xbox series s , my year subscriptions just run out but I will be renewing your end of August to play starfield , I paid the extra £30 to get the premium edition so I can play it from the 1st of September , so when you ask is starfield will be huge yes it's going to be very huge game
Starfield being huge for Xbox was clear from the showcase😁 But I have no idea where Colin is getting this 10% completion rate for Hi-Fi Rush. I've found no evidence of that claim.
@@gabrielbaker2667 i'm not assuming anything. we all saw how his "friends" stopped talking to him after he left KF. he speaks about it all the time on his show how not a single one of them stood up for him when he was being called horrible names. there isnt one public interaction with him and Legarie or McCaffery until years later. its weird you are trying to deny this when we all saw it.
@@isturbo1984exactly nobody said hey our friend Colin isn’t a racist or this or that. It’s a joke, get a life. It hurt kinda funny letting him go more than it hurt Colin in the end. After that I didn’t watch it anymore it. The PlayStation podcast he’s been a part of or started which 3 of them have been number one.
So to Colin it was OK when Sony entered and was the smallest to be buying up publisher in EU which accounted for 40% of published games? Or buying up other studios? Now that someone else is doing it then it’s bad? Why does Destin allow shit like this to stand without calling it out?
Go ahead and name these huge studios sony bought up. You cant because its uncomparable. Bethesda and activision are much much bigher purchases for a company that already owns everything in multiple fields
@@PervySage723I sincerely hope that Sony PlayStation owners will never be able to play yakuza or persona on those consoles ever again. I suspect that time is not too far off.
People easily forget that Sony was and is an electronics company that bought a video game company called "Psygnosis" to get into video games, and a record company called "CBS Records" to get into music, and a movie studio called "Columbia Pictures" to get into movies.
30 years ago is not 2023. Nothing they bought were big heavy hitting companies that people took note off. All their biggest titles are organic, (uncharted, last of us etc) grew out of the 360 generation when xbox had the biggest amount of bought exclusives and dlc of any generation. Microsoft are smash grabbing because they are failing. Look at the sales numbers of PS5 vs xbox. People trust Sony to put out the goods. Microsoft are taking by stuffing all the the cash in executive's pockets
You can’t say that Cole, that fucks with Sony good guy narrative, take that back, we all prefer the fake history that Sony hired individuals and built teams from ground up blab blah blah yawn! 😂 Yeah you are spot on!
Shh. Don't you know you can't go against the double standards in gaming? It's illegal to say anything bad ever about Sony, Nintendo, and Valve (and Idk any other super popular gaming brand where fan truly stands for fanatic).
"The acquisition was rewarding for Sony in another aspect: development kits for PlayStation consoles. As it had previously published PSY-Q development kits for various consoles by SN Systems, Psygnosis arranged for them to create a development system for the PS based on cheap PC hardware. Sony evaluated the system during CES in January 1994 and decided to adopt it." yeah, acquiring a company that had made successful and popular game development environments (some believe most Sega Genesis games were created using SN Systems Dev Environments which were the predecessor to psygnosis' PSY-Q PSX dev tools) to create a development kit for the PS1 is so evil. Fanboys dont think beyond what makes their favorite company look good
Colin is conflating correlation with causation. More people are playing those games because of Game Pass, which means more people that don't have the time or skill to finish those games are playing those games which brings the overall completion number down. There are a ton of games on Game Pass that I would have never played before, because I would have never bought them to give them a chance, this doesn't mean that I value those games less, in fact it makes me appreciate those games more because now I know what I was missing out on. It makes me more likely to buy (Buy not play through Game Pass, but buy) the sequels to those games or more games from the same developers. Very few games have had sequels come out since Game Pass, the real value of Game Pass for developers and publishers will come when people that have tried their games on Game Pass for "free" end up becoming paying consumers. It's like offering customers taste tests at supermarkets, yeah you are giving the customer your product away for free, but your hope in doing so it to make them returning customers.
Some games with longevity, that leave the service, get bought as well. Colin has never understood Gamepass or given it a chance likely because of his bias for the competitor.
@@KyleSetFireand there is so many of the same story’s from people who tried something on gp they never would have tried otherwise and now they are a life long fan. Gp has been shown to throw a wider net for games and people who try and then like a game go on to buy it and spend more in it than they would have otherwise
I have bought a fair share of the games, that I originally got for free on Gamepass, because I am able to see the value in owning it, if/when it isn't there one day.
It’s so hard to appreciate the extent to which Xbox One was a failure and the range of its impact. Thankfully, we’re finally close to stepping out of the shadow of Don Mattrick’s console-generational impact.
That E3 presentation had me sell my Xbox the next day, and buy a ps3 and then when the PS4 launched I got one of those. Now I have since come back to Xbox for my own reasons, but I was vehemently opposed to Xbox for a few years.
Well I for one do appreciate how much of a failure it was. I would not have Gamepass right now if it wasn't for Xbox one. Being in last place is the only way to get the blue turtle shell. It all worked out perfectly for me!
Don’t get me wrong, I know folks understand Xbox One was a failure. But even among us who recognize that, the situation with the brand, platform, and developer support was worse. Like Colin mentioned, Xbox 360 technically lost its generation but if it had maintained ANY momentum at all, I think they stood a real chance at making progress in the broader “console race.” As we all know, not only did Xbox not maintain momentum, it screeched to a halt. The closure of Lionhead Studios stands out as one of the seminal markers of that time. After Microsoft contemplated whether Xbox should exist after Xbox One’s underwhelming launch, the gaming community felt it. Game development is an industry that often moves in the direction of the community’s “vibe” and related narratives (whether based in reality or not). In the Mattrick era, the community had all the ingredients to create a pretty nasty narrative about Xbox and they did, which kicked Xbox back to square one. If the marketing wasn’t bad enough, Xbox eroded its fandom over night by severing Xbox One from the short, though significant legacy Xbox had built; Microsoft seemed to have abandoned indie devs and forced users to abandon their digital game libraries and console accessories. Again, back to square one… The fact that the back-compat program was one of Spencer’s first initiatives seems to validate the notion that it was a grave strategic error to have folks leave their content behind on the previous gen. What’s worse is that Sony poured salt in every one of these self-inflicted wounds and I don’t blame them. It’s a bit poetic that PlayStation dominated Xbox One with J Allard and Peter Moore’s 360 playbook. It was Sony that made the successor to the Xbox 360- not Microsoft. For anyone familiar with software development, you know it’s a bear of an industry. Mistakes are expensive and major strategic shifts can take years. It looks like these acquisitions may expedite the rate at which Xbox gains the momentum it sorely needs. I agree with the Sacred Symbols crew that organic growth is preferable but when a platform doesn’t have time for slower, organic growth and is up against a suffocating industry leader, different measures like Gamepass and acquisitions need to be options on the table, imo. Note: while I’ve mostly focused on the strategic missteps of the Xbox One era, it’s not lost on me that Halo and other platform-identity franchises have been fumbled, which kept Xbox in the hole.
Coming off of the X360 I was unimaginably hyped for the next generation of Xbox hardware to come out...but after I watched Don Mattrick fumble the ball so badly I felt like I was honestly watching the end of the Xbox era by the end of that E3 Showcase.
@@bossredd-77 I was hyped too. Though, honestly, I wasn’t as turned off by the “TV TV TV” thing as most others were. I was intrigued by the concept of an all-in-one entertainment box. What I didn’t know at the time was how underpowered the box would be, especially with the additional compute resources the entertainment features and Kinect would take up. That strange prioritization that made Xbox One lose on the spec sheet AND PRICE was pretty mind blowing. And this is coming from someone who was a fan of Kinect!
Same here. For example: I tried Remnant from the ashes, did not know what to expect, loved it. Now I bought Remnant 2 and it's amazing. Thanks to gamepass Remnant 2 has become huge.
Because it is bad for Sony. But that's it. Sony will lose a lot on this deal. They loe all the perks of their deal with Activision after 2024(unless they motion to terminate the deal early which there is word of that happening) and they will still most likely have to pay the 80/20 revenue share unless Xbox reverts that back to 70/30, which doesn't seem likely. Also after hearing this guy speak, Reforge Gaming is definitely a Colin rip-off.
Because its going to create a acquisition war. Every Fanboy is now saying , "who is Sony going to buy to counter this - Who is microsoft going to buy next!" Myself as an adult who owns and plays on all consoles - i don't want for Games / series /I.P's to be bought up and taken from each other. I think that's eventually going to be bad for gamers.
@@Dp3ch3Mod3UndrGroundThat’s my take as well, all of this will eventually lead to us no longer having publishers that have been around for decades. You can’t simply replace a publisher as you can a single studio. These are long standing publishers that have a lot of ip that will either be exclusive to one platform or never see the light of day again. Smaller studios cool, but let the publishers continue to be the life blood of the industry.
@@Dp3ch3Mod3UndrGround Do you live under a rock? The acquisitions have been happening for a lot of years. NOW people are having problems with it? Spare me!
Sony is an electronics company that bought a video game company (Psygnosis) to get into video games, a music company (CBS Records) to get into music and a movie company (Columbia Pictures) to get into movies.
Key words being "to get into" not 20 years into their lifecycle. Psygnosis also isn't even remotely comparable to ABK in terms of size or quality and quantity of IP.
Colin is a smart guy but his bias and anti-Xbox cravings get in the way more than is good for him. He was literally saying: “Microsoft doesn’t deserve any credit for the success of Starfield. It’s not their game.” But about RedFall he was saying Microsoft was completely to blame for all the failings. It’s their studio and their responsibility. See the hypocrisy and double standard?
Yeah, agreed. He wants it both ways. And nothing says un-biased like being on a show that refers to the symbols on the PS face buttons as “sacred symbols”. Sheesh.
I hate the narrative argument that PS3 ended up better than Xbox 360. its only because the world does not like USA products. Xbox360 literally out sold PS3 lifetime sales in US 47 million to 29 million.
Xbox 360 also had a higher attach rate, sold more games, etc. Sure, the PS3 ultimately sold more consoles, but that doesn't make them the "winners" if all the games were being sold on the 360.
Xbox live gold made a crap load for MS during the ps3/X360 era. While PS+ was free. In terms of pure money making, MS would have been the happier of the 2
Let's be real, Sony fears this deal not because they think they'll lose COD, it's because it'll be everywhere and it will hurt them much more than you could possibly think. How many Nintendo fans will rather buy the game for the Nintendo platform they already own? How many people will prefer to pay for Geforce now? Game Pass? Those last two don't even have the hardware barrier.
Sony enjoyed the status quo, they liked the business model as it was because they were dominating in it. So Microsoft, pushing Game Pass and having call of duty on game pass suddenly changes that business model, and Sony don’t want that which is why they were so aggressive when trying to block the deal. They know eventually, they’re going to lose.
Yea that's a way too look at it but I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say... I think this might be actually good for Sony per se even great. Sony won last gen and are dominating once again this gen. MS doing this is going to push Sony to actually be more competitive now which at the end of the day the consumers win. Also COD if it did leave PS while Sony may still be the market leader there would be devs chomping at the bit to fill that hole in the PS catalog that COD left that is a F TON of money just left on the table. I'm sure a lot of devs would love to fill that niche so if anything this if works out well will breed more creativity and competition in the space and let's not forget Sony has Bungie and Guierilla and Insomniac all are well versed in the FPS genre so I think Sony if they make the right moves will be just fine.
Sony is doing fine if you haven't noticed. Despite Gamepass,for every Xbox Series console out there,there are 2 PlayStation 5s. Gamepass is growing. PlayStation is growing even so.
I don't know why...but Colin is like nails on a blackboard for me. I don't know if its his voice, his speech pattern, his opinion or all of the above. Just seems like a dude that loves the sound of his own voice. Having said that....I watched the interview and the part where it all falls apart is that NONE of these arguments seemed to be an issue prior to MS. The concerns over the "market", consolidations, "creative" issues, the economy. It was all non-existing. It all boils down to not wanting things to change. But as someone that has been around since the 80s., buddy...gaming changes and the business models that drive that market has always been an evolving beast.
Colin's irritating speech pattern is "I'm too smart and cool to yell and be outraged" but the content of his bullshit is just the same as any creator who farms outrage content. Dude is disingenuous.
He literally claims that consolidation is good if Nintendo and Sony do it but bad when the studio with the literal highest Metacritic average in a single year of all time because of creative issues. You know, the one where they literally ask the developers what they want to do and write them a blank check. 😂
This was great. If there was a way to engineer more of these types of conversations where the other side can come on and have a friendly debate, that would be awesome. Do more with Colin in the future!
43:46 so how is Sony a creative company when all they’ve been putting out has been reboots and re-masters, and sequels we are literally going to be getting the last of us to remake a game that’s not even three years old
I hate the fact that people don't care about those of us who don't have much money who use gamepass to play most of our games and enjoy it just like the rest because they don't have money issues they aren't bothered
Facts. Games I played on PS4 in seven years: 36, Games I played on PS5 in two years: 3 (Ragnarok, GT7 and astrobot), Games I played on series X in two years: 98 out of 140 tried. 6 owned by me.
@erregibi2060 same here, I played on my ps5 gow ragnarok, Horizon forbidden west and gt7. On xbox seris x with gamepass I lost count. I bought about 6 games on xbox. When I was a lot younger, I went to the shop and rented my games. Then the shop stopped doing that. Thankfully gamepass came along and I can enjoy games for a low price. It is so good for, I guess 90% of gamers who doesn't want or can't spend 70€ every month for a game. Even Sony agreed, jumped on the wagon and did the same thing.
Colin acknowledges that it's a good deal (he says "you'd be stupid not to" use Game Pass). However, he is concerned that it is not "sustainable", or not beneficial to the industry in the long-term. For example, he might be worried that the subscription-based model does not create favourable market conditions for the creation of big budget, cinematic, narrative-driven single player games. Whether this is true or not is largely a matter of fact, independent of whether Game Pass currently offers good value for people with little disposable income.
@@G_Doggy_Jrit being sustainable is no one's problem but Microsoft. However, they are one of the smartest companies around. They've obviously done the analytics to ensure it would be sustainable for them and they can deliver it at a price point that works for us. I mean they have years of data to be able to figure out what the average person spends in a year and if the yearly gamepass subscription would make them more money or at least break even. He's also just ignoring major points all video long. I wish Destin would've pushed back more
A lot of Sony fans haven't caught up with the fact that Microsoft has several deals that appeal to low income households. This is why the Series S and Game Pass exist. Meanwhile Sony is marketed only toward high income households who want something that is more luxurious and premium. And now because they are "losing" in a market niche that they voluntarily ignored they are getting a bit worried. Regardless of what platform(s) you are on and what your income is, Microsoft wants to provide you with a way for you to access their games. And I think that is a very cool thing.
Between the yen right now and Sony's equity to debt (a company's total liabilities and divide them by its total shareholders' equity), and world interest rate it would be a bad idea for Sony to spend alot right now
At the very least spending money on 3rd party exclusives seems like a bad idea as I doubt it makes Sony all that much money and is more about denying Xbox games. If they are going to spend money, it'll be better off on buying new studios but I wonder if that's going to be feasible for them right now with the world being more aware of their scummy practices due to them trying to stop the Activision/Blizzard deal and doing so poorly.
Xbox is losing money. It’s Microsoft’s biggest loser and has been for years even without acquisitions it was losing money. It’s a huge hedge bet for Microsoft. It’s got a couple years at least before they pull the plug on it or at least start to dissolve and merge studios. Gamepass still has at least 2 more price increases over the next year or so.
@@MickeyFKNMouse microsoft made 140+ Billion last year in profit. Why would they spend 70 billion and pull the plug? That's like buying a house and not moving in Here's a business lesson, value isn't always in plain sight. Microsoft bought nuance a company that makes 300 million a year for 20 billion. Just because you don't see the strategy doesn't mean one doesn't exist 🤷🏼♂️
@@technicallyme And the xbox division is making good money since 2019 more that they spend ( not counting Activision/blizzard/king ) last info was for sep 2022 and the revenue was 3.6 billions..
Saying that competition would never do this kind of acquisitions. Shall we tell him how Sony started it the game space? How they almost killed Nintendo by buying publishers and keeping those games of Saga and Nintendo. Or how they basically killed Sega this way. Even telling them go 3th party. We are the new kings in town. Sony also bought most of their studio’s. Or how they are paying studio’s to keep those games of Xbox. Even Spider-Man 2018. I mean. I try to be neutral. I play on PC anyway. But I can not finish this video Destin. Love your content normally. But this one feels like listening to someone who is much in love with his device. Like really in love. Maby they are even married, who knows. ❤ Well till something better comes along. Like the 6 😉
Everybody seems to forget that Sony purchased some Amiga developers in the beginning.Psygnosis was one of the first. Wipeout, Colony Wars, lemmings all came from that studio.
Literally vast majority of the studios Sony have nowadays, were not founded by them, they bought. Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Bluepoint, Guerrilha, Nixxes etc. and they keep buying more and more studios, the amount of studios they buy per year compare to the number of studios that an actual publisher would have.
Can you guys STOP with the revisionist history. Sony was NOT the reason Nintendo and SEGA took huge hits in the 90's, it was both respective company making missteps after missteps that harmed them. Nintendo was in an era of extreme hubris while working with Sony on a disc based console. They dropped out of the deal at the last minute without telling Sony, then announced that they were working with Phillips instead. The Phillips deal also fell through because Nintendo wasn't trying to give a revenue split. This caused a huge delay of their next successor to the SNES. When it finally came in 1996 (2 years after PSone), it had lost a ton of market share, and still being cartridge based many devs decided not to work on it because of the expense. Games like FF VII went exclusive to PSone on the simple fact that they could split the game into multiple disc, which was an impossibility on the N64. SEGA killed themselves by dropping way too many failed hardware releases in such a short amount of time, with almost no marketing. GameGear, SEGA CD, SEGA 32X, SEGA Nomad, and the SEGA Saturn all FAILED within a 5 year span. With SEGA of America making most of those missteps. SEGA announced a higher price point for the SATURN compared to the PSone, then announced that it was available IMMEDIATELY. Many retailers didn't even receive their shipments yet. 😂. They shadow dropped a console. 😂😂😂 By the time the DreamCast released they had 5 failed home and handheld consoles, and didn't even release a SONIC game for the Saturn. People forget that games like Tomb Raider and Resident Evil also released on the Saturn, they simply didn't sell well on the platform... and SEGA refused Tekken because they had Virtua Fighter. I'm tired of you guys who didn't actually live in the 90's and didn't experience what actually happened trying to change history so that you can make PS some weird boogeyman. They didn't money-hat anything, most of it just happened through circumstance of being the ONLY viable console in that era.
Interesting that Colin acknowledges that AAA 200 million budget games aren’t sustainable and that because of that publishers are to scared to take the risk to create new experiences. And at the same time Colin believes Gamepass is bad for the industry, that must be because he believes it’s bad for Sony. Subscription services like Gamepass make it less risky to be creative, because they don’t need to sell millions of copy’s to make back the investment.
The lengths people will go to to avoid engaging with criticism of their favourite brand. "Someone criticised my favourite brand... that must be because they're a fan of the competitor, which means they are biased, so I don't need to engage with their argument! Phew!"
I think you may have missed his point or perhaps he didn’t explain it clearly like he has on Sacred Symbols. He’s afraid for the art form and the potential race to the bottom due to ravenous nature subscription services have for content. I’m sure I’m missing a lot of how he has put it. I see both sides but understand his concern.
The problem with that is that gamepass will not cover the cost of a 200 million dollar game and doesn’t make it any more sustainable. What gamepass can do is alleviate the risk for smaller games and indie devs who are just trying to make it to the next game. The Last of Us Part 2, one of those $200 million games, needs to make a profit and it did. At $200 million they would need to sell almost 3 million games at $70 a piece to break even (not including production and marketing costs to keep this simple) they sold 10 million at the time I’m writing this. Can Microsoft afford to pay multiple companies $700 million+ to make up for the loss of sales by being on gamepass? And if they could is that even worth it?
Something similar is happening in Hollywood. They are sticking with IP to make gangbuster bucks. Creativity is risky. But now with the strike, we may see a whole bunch of smaller indie films made and it will be great since they get exposure. Same will happen through gamepass. Unique experiences will get the exposure they deserve
Collin saying "why cant a game just be good enough to stick around for 3 months, I don't get it" But also saying "Halo infinite was bad, xbox destroyed Halo" while the only criticism it got was about its live service content. Colin is consistently inconsistent when it comes to his criticism regarding Xbox.
Glad I just found out about Destin's channel! Great show. Destin is a super nice guy. My son and I met him at Pax South many years ago (around the time Colin and Greg had just left IGN). We saw him and said "hey Destin", he was very cool, even hung out with me and my son for lunch for about 30 minutes. Had a fun convo over cheap nachos, great memory!
I listen to both of yall each week on your respective shows and I loved this conversation. It was well informed and realistic without hyperbole, and with genuine respect given to one another. I would love to see this crossover again, either on this channel or on LSM!
Colin's bias is so blatant it is crazy. He also said about big publishers not liking sub services. But Ubisoft has there own with day and date and even include all dlc, EA has there own with day and date on PC.
Take another look at their subscriptions, they’re completely different in value and proposition from GamePass. Big publishers would never burn money in the way MS does, there’s no other subscription that mimics GamePass and Activision was never going to allow games like COD on it without acquisition. If MS had a sustainable model, both Ubisoft and EA’s would be mimicking it.
I am not entirely buying Colin's arguments, feel a bit of Sony bias from most of his discourse. "Sony is a creative party and microsoft provides services and software..." Clearly Microsoft has work on their hands for adding more to their library and improving first party but they arent a complete loss. Also square is putting final fantasy 14 (something they care for) on xbox, likely coming to gamepass. So will WoW. I own all three of the major consoles, and a decked out PC. I prefer to play on my PC mostly.
I have zero respect for Colin's opinions here. His viewpoint has ALWAYS been how does this hurt Sony or how does Sony benefit from their contacts and acquisitions. The hard truth for him to swallow is that Sony won't EVER do anything consumer friendly WITHOUT being forced to by their competitors. None of these companies truly care about their fan base, but at least Xbox is making an attempt to create a consumer friendly market.
Your viewpoint is the exact opposite if you think Xbox is doing anything out of some kind of kindness to the consumer. The image they project might, but they are just as calculating as Sony.
@themetalpig7613 Obviously, reading comprehension isn't something you've quite tackled yet. I clearly stated that "none of these companies truly care about their fan base, but at least Xbox is making an attempt to create a consumer friendly market." Sony, on the other hand, hasn't tried even in the slightest to add actual value to what they provide. They withhold first-party games from their PS+ service on day one, and they charge FULL PRICE for moderate to no effort "upgrades" of games their consumers have already purchased. Let's not forget them charging for PS5 updates to PS4 games. On the other side of the consumer market, Xbox releases ALL first-party games, and many, many more on Game Pass DAY ONE. Many of my BC Xbox 360 games have received 60fps boost and HDR support for free. EVERY game that I've purchased for the Xbox One that has seen an updated version release for Series X/S has been auto updated FOR FREE. Again, at least Xbox is TRYING to improve company/consumer relations by not squeezing every penny out of their players.
@@themetalpig7613 A competitive market IS a consumer friendly market and the ABK acquisition does exactly that it increases competition. It was not MS's goal, but the goal is achieved none the less.
Theres way too much thought going into video games from Colin. He’s peeling back layers that don’t need peeling. Sony was buying exclusives and keeping content off of Xbox, and he literally said "buy a PS" don’t champion when your allegiance company does it, then scoff at the competition for trying to level the playing field.
@@skywalk3x final fantasy 14 Just got announced for Xbox. You know what Didn’t get announced for Sony? Anything by Bethesda. If you’d like to compare the franchises that are now removed from the Sony ecosystem I’d be happy to do that.
@@scruz6293spiderman? They also tried buying Starfield to keep it off Xbox forever that's when Xbox bought Bethesda this is playstations tactics coming back to bite them and I love it 🤣 PlayStation is the most anti consumer company in gaming
The same game might have a higher completion rate on PS than on Xbox - but when that game is on Game Pass it only makes sense that would be the case. Because on Game Pass you're going to get *MANY* more people checking a game out that they otherwise would never spend money on. They may or may not play that game through to completion. But over on PS where that game isn't offered to them for "free" then the people playing it are already more engaged with it because they were willing to drop $70 on it - so of *course* the completion rate will be higher among that group of people. I've played a whole slew of games on Game Pass for just an hour or two just to check them out - games I otherwise would never give a second thought. Sometimes one of those games will click with me and I'll devote dozens of hours to it - other times I stop playing after just a short while with the game. In that latter case, me and people like me are lower the completion rate for that game - but that doesn't suggest what Colin is insisting it does (that people just aren't interested in finishing games on a subscription service) - it just says that people are more willing to try things they might otherwise never try. And that's a *GOOD* thing.
Colin has a point though. You're more incentivized to complete something that you paid for, that's just how human psychology works. It's way easier to NEVER finish the movie you started on Netflix, than it is to never finish a 4K bluray movie you bought for $25, even if it was on a whim. Completion rates and game sales are down across the board on Xbox and that includes titles that aren't on GamePass. They're actually losing market share. They've already getting outsold 2:1 (21 million vs 40 million) in only 2.5 years. Something has shifted in the Xbox fan base and you can hear it in their rhetoric. They no longer want to buy full priced titles, and they are demonstrably hyper focused on games that come to GP.
@@kthebarbarian8223 His point is meaningless though. A game being made available for free will naturally draw attention from people who have only a passing interest in it - this will depress completion rates because they'll move on once they've seen enough (or something else gets their attention) whereas people who plunked down the cash for something did so because they have more than just a passing interest and are therefore more likely to complete it. He's literally just stating the obvious and acting like it's a bad thing that people are checking out more and more games than they otherwise ever would. It's absurd.
@@kthebarbarian8223 Really? I dropped 70 bucks on Hogwarts, and I still haven't finished it. I would like to the sources he is using to keep saying this nonsense. Granted I am only one person in a group of millions. However, a quick Google search will show that about 25% of players have beaten the game at least in March, probably more now. Keep in mind that this game is NOT on Game Pass so what is the excuse for not finishing this game? It is definitely not Game Pass' fault. Colin is a dumbass if he truly believes that.
It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing, black or white. The subscription model might have some arguably good effects and some arguably bad effects. You could compare with music streaming. For some, Spotify might allow them to discover music they never otherwise would have. However, it might also encourage a shallower engagement with particular artists and albums.
@@G_Doggy_Jr I never said it had to be black and white - Colin is the one treating it that way. As for "encouraging shallower engagement with particular" content - so what? When I was a kid I played Sonic on the Sega Genesis so much that I knew more secrets in the first Sonic game than even the strategy/tip guides had. I haven't touched that game in almost 30 years and I'm confident I would still remember 90% of the secrets I knew back then because I played it over and over and over again. I didn't play it that much because it was a great game though - I did so out of necessity. It was the only game I could afford at the time and so I played it and replayed it and played it again. I beat it countless times without even getting hit. If I had access to a subscription service at the time, it would have allowed me to broaden my gaming horizons and experience many more different things - resulting in "shallower engagement" with Sonic - but... that's not a bad thing. Quite the contrary. When people have access to an expansive library of games they will only engage deeply with the ones that they feel are worthy of that deep engagement, as opposed to replaying the same shallow experiences over and over again out of necessity.
4:00 Without having to make these types of acquisitions? Um, I feel like this is a very closed minded statement. They actively made OTHER types of legal transactions that lead to the demise of the creativity pool for Xbox. Sony is notorious for buying exclusivity and blocking competitors in other territories. They don't HAVE to make these types of acquisitions when they can do other things that will ultimately make them #1 in the market. The 22 years mark is also flawed as Sony has been buying studios creativity for years. Like wtf is this guy on?
I dont necessarily agree with a lot Colin is saying here, but I'm glad to see even he knows and acknowledges that Starfield is going to be huge hit for MS/Bethesda
@@liamflan9553closet pony? He's a playstation fan thru and thru, but he plays games on any console whether it's Xbox, Nintendo, Sega etc that grabs his attention. He's a gamer in general
@@liamflan9553lol people like you are pathetic. He states his opinion, and never says it’s anything but his opinion. You guys hate him because he has the biggest PlayStation podcast, even though he criticizes Sony all the time. Stop fellating corporations. They aren’t your friends, and it isn’t a team. They want your money. That’s it.
My issue with hardcore PlayStation fans is that they try so hard to combine two CLEARLY different ideologies into one. PlayStation is in the business of selling hardware using high quality exclusives as it’s vehicle. Microsoft recognized that ideology is not working for them and decided to pivot. Offering a one stop shop of a variety of indie to high quality AAA games to gamers everywhere via a subscription based platform. Both strategies work and is unique to each company . Why should Microsoft have to use a strategy that another company believes in? ….Gaming!
I think it comes down to the sustainability on the AAA front. Legacy games (1year+ older) and the AA space I think is a great for Game Pass. I think there will be a major problem with in-house AAA's and how that works with GP. As an Xbox owner I've not been impressed the last few years
@@tombrown1979 I agree. Outside of the typical Forza, Halo, Gears trope we haven’t seen anything super worthwhile. Redfall was a bust. However, I think Microsoft is in the initial stages of doing something innovate that has never been done before by placing AAA titles day 1. They should be able to further explore this approach within a reasonable and competitive manner. If they have enough cash on hand to eat the cost of paying for games up front until Gamepass becomes profitable enough so be it.
No one’s telling MS to do business like PlayStation, but MS shouldn’t require interference with Sony’s business just for them to be successful, they can make their own games and rise to prominence without taking away long established revenue. You don’t need acquisitions regardless of which approach you take.
just say fanboy. the "hardcore playstation fanbase" lol. lets call a rose a rose. you sound ridiculous trying to repackage this old, tired convo. fanboys suck. we know.
Man all their important 1st party games are from studios they bought. Sony didn't build shit and I say this as someone that has owned multiple Sony systems and not 1 Xbox.
@joceja23 Psygnosis was also the publisher for another small Scottish studio, DMA Designs (they both worked on Lemmings) but after Sony stopped them from publishing 3rd party games DMA signed a new publishing agreement with Take2 and released the original GTA, DMA is now Rockstar North. Sony PlayStation had the keys for GTA under the Psygnosis wing!!
@@MaximumCarnage- regardless of which platform you prefer…. Buying Studio A is no different to buying Studio B….. you either have to accept that these acquisitions happen in gaming especially for that exclusive content or you’re against exclusivity and want every game on every platform. But to use Colin’s argument….. renting is bad for business so it’s always better to buy and own your content
That’s a solid feeling due to him having the largest PlayStation podcast in the world but he super anti consolidation. He has been saying for the past 2 years he doesn’t want Sony to acquire more studios. Namely square enix.
This is such a great discussion between Colin, a known Playstation fan, and Destin, a notable Xbox fan. They may not agree on everything but their arguments were way better articulated than any fanboys arguments I've seen in the comments of various websites. It was nuanced, well-argued, and in-depth. Great job to Destin and Colin. Would love to see a regular "Crossfire-style" show with them both.
36:12 it received mega amount of scrutiny that’s OK however, going around in fear mongering is not scrutiny is called what I just said, fear mongering the gaming industry is not being monopolized by Activision blizzard being bought they barely make up 10% of the gaming industry
Just as an FYI, if Starfield had a budget of $400 Million to develop, they would only have to sell 5.8 Million units to hit profit. And a game like that?! Yeeaahh... that's *completely doable.*
@@Dave_FPG Not that I know if. I was just using that number as an example because that's the number Colin threw out. I have no idea what the actual budget is, but I am pretty confident that, despite the game being on GamePass Day One, Starfield is going to sell 10 Million copies.
What xbox is doing now is what Sony did when Sony first got into gaming, Sony purched one of the biggest publishers in Europe when ps first started, xbox, when first started, got a few small studios at the time like bungie but now have realised they need the content to be there and that's something Sony has had for years.
It's not the same. Sony bought Psygnosis for $20 million in 1993, right before the launch of the PSone. Their biggest game franchise at the time was "Lemmings", and just a few short years prior to that they were just a collective of 3rd party devs sharing a workspace. WIPEOUT, and Colony Wars weren't created by them until AFTER the purchase. To compare its purchase to ABK is just asinine revisionist history. A game publisher in the 80's and early 90's was no bigger than a small dev team now. MS took on 10K new employees with this deal, Sony only took in 50 with Psygnosis. It's much closer to Sony buying BUNGIE than it is to MS buying ABK. A small self publisher, vs a giant corporate publisher.
@@kthebarbarian8223 Revisionist is saying this is revisionist! At that time gaming was nowhere near it is today, did not had a fraction of the income it has today, Psygnosis was one of the most valuable companies at the time in the gaming industry, because there was not such thing as billion dollars publishers yet! And Sony did not only buy Psygnosis, it had most of the production line for CDs and parts for their console. They lied, cheated and misinformed to take SEGA out of the picture and started trying to backstab Nintendo. Microsoft may be buying a huge publisher nowadays, but in market share, Psygnosis had at that time about the same, or even more, as ABK has now, they already had other franchises like Shadow of the Beast, Barbarian, Chrono Quest, Dracula and others... They were huge in the Atari and Amiga market. You can't compare value or even size in something that happend 30 years ago and say that "it's not the same because it was way cheaper and they were smaller", of course, the market was way smaller, besides other economic reasons, at that time being a billion dollar company was like being a trillion dollar company is today!
@@zartul All false, with ZERO examples. What did they lie, cheat or misinform about to harm SEGA? I guess having 5 failed hardware products in 5 years didn't do it, it was Sony lying according to your revisionist history. 😂😂😂 And Nintendo backstabbed Sony, not the other way around. All sources have confirmed that this is how it went, again you're spreading more revisionist history. In typical Nintendo fashion, they shot themselves in the foot leading to them delaying their next console after the SNES and Sony creating the PSone. It's amazing to think that Nintendo is Dr. Frankenstein and the PlayStation is Frankenstein's monster. 😂 Blame Nintendo for their creation. And it's NOT the same. Psygnosis was NOT the largest independent publisher in existence at the time, nor did they have a established top tier multiplatform IP that was integral to the landscape of gaming. Psygnosis wasn't integral to Nintendo or SEGA's success and had almost ZERO impact on them after being purchased. Nor was PS an established console manufacturer of 22 years when they made the purchase. You're comparing Apple's to oranges even 30 years ago. Psygnosis was so early on they helped Sony make dev kits for 3rd party's because they originally were a collective that helped Independent devs with technology. Sony were so clueless at the time they didn't even have dev kits & you think this is the same as a $70 Billion purchase of the biggest independent publisher from an established console manufacturer. Nice try though.
@@kthebarbarian8223 They were responsible for 40% of europes games market and had a ton of studios lemmings was like the flappy birds of the era, that game was made by dma design who went on to make the first ever gta game, nice try though.
So colin compared the attachment rate of Hi Fi Rush, a brand new IP, way smaller fanbase, a game that people didnt have to spend money on...to Final Fantasy 16. A huge franchise that is known worldwide, and that people PAID 70 dollars a pop for. Idk
The main reason PS3 was less competitive vs X360 was because PS3 was an inexpensive BluRay player. People would buy the system, then not buy games, dlc or subs. Which is VERY bad for highly subsidized below market cost hardware, that was supposed to be offset by pricier games/subs/DLC.
Yep I was 17 when the PS3 came out and people forget the average price of Blu Ray players back then was like $1,200 so the PS3 at $600 was a steal for that alone
@@Ranger.TomGunna Lets not forget they took a $400-$600 bath on every PS3 sold before the cost cutting revisions. They only finally dug out of that huge hold mid way through last gen.
And the 360 was a red light flashing death I know people who ran through so many 360 because they were fucked…. They rushed out a console that they knew wasn’t ready for launch just to try and jump Sony and it cost them big
Sony would need to rewrite Gabe Logan and the premise to not be so generic. My favorite by far was Omega Strain. In that one you could create multiple characters. There was co-op, though I don't recall using it.
Why Pony Moriarty? He claims MS having exlusives as bad for industry and Sony having em as next greatest thing, when Sony doesn’t have em then “why do they matter”
@@JJF-ftwRegardless, so long as Game Pass remains the way it is, it does benefit gamers. And it's consistent income on top of acting as the new Xbox Gold Membership but better in every way.
No need to make your snide comment because you didn't understand the conversation. But your comment got some likes, so I guess you're feeling good about yourself. Classic compensation.
@@deadplanet2397 literally doesn't matter. they had also began making halo well before they were acquired by MS. It was originally supposed to be a game for Mac.
I've been an Xbox guy since it came out, before I was nintendo but I also had ps1-3 and I just always gravitated to nintendo for smash mario kart/party etc but xbox for everything else. I considered getting a Ps but when everything stopped being exclusive like tekken, wrestling, mgs etc I never seen the reason to own one. I like gow and last of us but not enough to fork over $400+ for a handful of games.
Colin, people value their dollar if you spend more you will complete what you buy out of obligation and buyer’s bias. And while that is not always the case people will spend money where their interests are, they have released stats about people playing MORE games and TRYING new ones which WHY the completion rate is lower, because YOU DONT HAVE TO SPEND AN ENTIRE BILL ON ONE GAME THAT MONTH.
Many are missing the point here. People are playing more games on game pass and not finishing them. The completion rate is a way to compare the two platforms without knowing the numbers. Wether its good for the consumer is not the point, its about the people who make the games.
@@neo_wise5543 this serves as demo/full play and the numbers represent that. Do you think you complete all the shows you watch on Netflix or do you try more shows when you finish the ones you really liked lol like I can’t believe I have to explain this to people.
Microsoft funded Halo, Call of Duty, Mass Effect, Dragon Age Origins, Bioshock 1 & 2, Elder Scrolls 4 & 5, Kotor, Doom 3 on console, Gears of War. By Colin’s logic, Xbox should be fine buying at least big portions of EA, Take Two, Bethesda and Activision.
Yeah not a fan of Colin. His xbox" bad" opinion sucks and he is annoyingly biased! His game pass is bad for creativity and quality might be the worst take in gaming as a whole! This resulted in the first thumbs down i ever gave this channel.
I love Destin, but Colin has had unhinged and non-sensical takes/opinions since his days at IGN, and they have somehow gotten progressively worse since then. It is incredibly difficult to watch anything with him in it. I will skip voting on his one, cause I don't want to Thumb down any of Destin's vids, and I watch all of them.
I mean Sony paid to block 2 Bethesda games and then Xbox caught wind they were working to block Starfield next so that's why they bought Bethesda. It came out in the court docs. Serves them right.
@@PhazeyBlur Yes fanboy. Street Fighter 5 was timed all right ... timed the entire generation. FF7 remake same. Nice timed block there. Tons of Japanese/Korean blocked timed or otherwise to stop Xbox from ever getting a foothold in Japan. Having constant shit blocked doesn't hurt Xbox at all. During all the court stuff with Apple we got to see how dirt Sony plays so I don't blame Microsoft for playing hard now. Sony wants to play dirty and keep poking a bear well deal. Enjoy your church of Sony bro lmao
Soulless? What I think is soulless is just throwing a bunch of money at someone so that they can't decline it and letting them do all the hard work while you benefit. I much rather the approach that MS has gone with of buying the whole company and putting the rest of your money/company on the line to do all the hard work while you benefit from it BUT also putting yourself at risk if that company fails. Tell me what happens to Sony if Square-Enix had a string of bad games, so much so that they go bankrupt and vanish. Nothing, absolutely nothing, so PS will have a few less games, big deal. In the MS situation on the other hand, if ABK suddenly had a string of bad games so much so that they are losing money year after year, this will directly impact MS, maybe they will have to lay people off, maybe they will have to sell some part of their business, maybe if the problem is big enough it negatively impacts the rest of MS/Xbox financially and they suffer. By a company owning a another company their incentive for that second company to do well is much much stronger than it is for a company who just pays for another company to work for them, that company only cares about the second company in as far as it could hurt them personally.
57:25 - Yeah, the "Mobile MTX situation", because it's not like basically every full priced $70 game on consoles already also is filled to the brim with MTXs... Given the amount of older AAA-games I haven't played, I even before Game Pass, personally saw very little reason to pay full price at launch for a game with 100% of the bugs and 50% of the content, when the same game will be on sale for less than half the original price featuring only 10% of the bugs and 100% of the content (incl DLC/Expansions often named GOTY-Edition)
I like how Colin's whole argument about being against Game Pass had ZERO to do with the consumer & regular gamer... It was all "but the financials" and "how do they make their money back?" and "people might think games are cheap" etc etc etc.... And? Why should I, the person with limited disposable income, be concerned with the multi trillion dollar company's quarterly reports or how much money they want to dump into the service, especially if that money is going towards a service I benefit from? 🤔 I'm not a developer, nor am I shareholder. I'm just trying to enjoy my hobby & stretch those funds as much as I can. MS is giving me a way to do that. And if developers don't like it, they won't put their games on it. It's that simple. And if it only loses money (which MS says it doesn't, but Collin apparently knows more), then the good times will end. Oh well, it was great while it lasted. But until that point, I'm not going out & pretending it's a bad service for ME when it's only been a huge godsend. I only play on PC, with a tiny bit of Switch every now & then, and GP allows me to try games I'd otherwise never even consider buying.
If Colin is right, then in the long run, the lost revenue from the lack of a la carte sales will drive pubs to implement even more invasive monetization techniques on top of the ones that many gamers don't like already. If the financial model for placing AAA games on a subscription day 1 isn't healthy and stable on it's own, then the industry will be in a similar situation to film, and tv, where the big streamers are losing billions of dollars, and vaulting tons of content just for the tax breaks.
@cw-cw6nl But Colin also contradicts himself, as he said nobody puts their games on GP if they're confident in their sales. So by his logic, all publishers that are already making good money off a la carte sales won't need to change their model with encroaching monetization because their games aren't on GP anyway. They're not on GP, so they're not losing a la carte sales. Also, let's not kid ourselves... encroaching monetization has been happening for the past 15 years anyway. DLC, day 1 expansion passes, loot boxes, MTX in full price games, raising game prices to $70, remasters/remakes of games less than 5 years old, live service battle pass models, etc.... Game Pass didn't create any of these things. And because these things have become so prevalent, GP's value is even better to consumers who can't afford to keep up with this absurd race to empty people's wallets.
He's *VERY* wrong about Playstation fans not wanting ANY buyouts & being against acquisitions/contraction in general. If you spend any amount of time in PS circles on social media, they are constantly championing new buyouts. Just last night I saw a post from TCMF Games on Twitter calling for Sony to buyout Square Enix... it had 1,100+ likes & was being shared by a lot of PS fans. This is EVERYWHERE. Square, Take Two, Capcom & even Ubisoft are all being floated around on their wishlists. And if you bring up "I thought we were AGAINST buyouts?" the response is "well if the competition does it, we need to do it too!" But reading the responses, you can tell it's way beyond that. These people would love nothing more than Sony to announce a ton of buyouts... if only to flex on Xbox.
“Sony is an inherently creative company” Sony was an electronics company that used acquisitions to buy their way in to movies/music in the late 80s, and used their largesse to undercut Nintendo and Sega’s third party licensing fees in video games (to the benefit of consumers and third parties). “Nintendo is who we should want consolidating” Nintendo was an abusive monopolist in the late 80s and was forced to treat third party developers better after competing with Sega then Sony. I feel like Colin’s history only starts with PS3.
Sony has been in the music business since 1968. Sony didn’t undercut Sega or Nintendo. Sega and Nintendo made less capable machines with the Saturn and the N64.
@@ltw126 They got big in the music industry via acquisition of CBS Records and ATV, and through merging with BMG. Nobody knew of Sony as a music company before then. For PS1, they charged $7.50/game as royalty to the platform owner where Nintendo was charging $15/game. This was even before the cost savings from the new CD ROM technology. Undercutting the competition was part of their strategy to win.
Shoutout Destin & Colin! Here from the Beyond years, and been a Sacred Symbols Patron from the beginning. Now, newly subbed to Destin’s channel. Happy to see you two hash it out in a respectable manner. 🙏🏽
Yeah, and less Sony pony fan girls like ign has been clown. This interview is as awful. Destin do better with the people you select interview. It’s good to get people that aren’t pro Xbox. But at least someone that isn’t an obvious salty hater. Talks a million words a second and in the end this was an hour and half + of gibberish.
Colin seems like one of those guys that spouts crazy theories from his basement. 😂 In terms of acquisitions, I’d much rather see a big company like Microsoft acquire a studio vs them going out of business and closing shop. Like the THQ and other gaming companies that closed up shop. As Destin said, Activision wanted to be bought. We’ll have to see how everything goes… But from a gamer standpoint I feel Activision will do better under Microsoft.
@@ShadyDBZ4aww, someone is upset they didn’t get a shill to talk to. Colin’s reputation for fairness is pretty well known. Nothing he said isn’t true in practice. MS has been dominated for for the better part of two hardware generations in hardware and games revenue. I love my Xbox, but this fanboy idea that its all ok is ridiculous. They failed to manage ~20 studios, and will now own double that. Nothing so far inspires confidence, and I desperately hope they change that over the next couple of years. Jesus man, they released Redfall…. It was embarrassing to people like me who suggest Game pass to others
Collin made some great and some less great points. I think he is off when it comes to the economics of Gamepass. If Microsoft can grow subscription counts, it will be fine. Their ventures into mobile will help towords this goal for sure. His argument about "natural Groth/acquisitions" on the other hand makes more sense I think. It creates a common sense inside the teams, a shared vision and better structure, which lead to better games. That's why Xbox isn't trying to absorb all the teams into Xbox game studios, they want the publishers they buy to manage those studios for them, so that they don't have to take that burden. I think both ways are valid. Also his point about player behaviour changing isn't wrong. We all know how Netflix changed our view on shows, the same thing could happen to games, I don't know.
It’s worrying reading comments on this interview that obviously haven’t understood what Colin has said. It’s just so strange to me people defending and having fights about a plastic box and a giant corporation…(both Sony and Microsoft)
Destin is an actual journalist who researches topics, interviews people. For the AbK acquisition he poured through legal filings and spoke to numerous experts. Colin Moriarty is a troll who caters to the worst, most aggressive Sony fanboys and says vacuous things to get a rise out of people.
Colin also does take his time and does research just like Destin. Also Colin doesn't cater to fanboys. I think anyone who watches any of LSM's content would realise that.
@@JoltinJoe I think it's such a shame that people are so quick to just and just make assumptions. I guess that was happens when people are blinded by tribalism.
1:03:23 I’m just gonna point out here that they were both wrong how they are calculated for how the business sees it, and how shareholders is the increase of monthly active users alone justifies the $70 billion purchase price. This is not only a game pass move. This is a platform expansion move to grab mine share that was lost during the Xbox one generation.
Great episode, Nice to see people with differing, genuine good points of view that discuss like adults and listen to each other. It’s a video games media revolution. Viva la revolution
The guest’s comments that Microsoft should buy Embracer completely misses the mark, IMO. The console and PC game space is relatively stagnant, and Microsoft wants to invest in mobile. The reason they’re buying Activision is mostly due to mobile.
@@JoltinJoe No there IP were not dead Lemmings was put on everything in the beginning of the 90s. I am not saying Psygnosis is or was as big as ABK. Not even Bethesda was as big when MS bought them. I just saying Sony did acquired companies in the past, there not innocent either. One reason Sony did buy Psygnosis was for there 3d tools.
A factor that probably helped the PS3 take the lead towards the end of its lifestyle was because it was a cheap option as a Blu-ray player which had the advantage of also playing games. I know a lot of people who I know personally that picked up a PS3 in the last year of its life after spending the entire generation on Xbox because they wanted a reasonably priced Blu-ray player as Blu-ray was starting to grow its library and they had the benefit of playing some PS3 games
35:30 - I suspect it is because people (myself included) realizes that ever since the launch of PS4/XBONE, PlayStation has been completely dominating Xbox to the point where Microsoft might abandon their Xbox business (like Zune and Windows Phone/Nokia), thereby entirely ceding the "High-Performance Console Market" to a Sony which has been "riding" the wallets of their "Sony Ponies" increasingly harder over the past 5+ years - "Pay has NO LIMITS!". We subsequently understand that this deal "commits" Microsoft to the gaming business and all but ensures that Sony PlayStation will not be "The Only Game in Town" for gamers wanting high quality graphics without the hassles associated with Gaming-PCs. I doubt the reactions would have been equally positive if PlayStation and Xbox had been more Neck-to-Neck!
It also means that the gaming landscape is changing, and it's going to be more about the services than the hardware. It's a disruption of the industry, and disruption is sorely needed.
Colin just doesnt like business models that compete with Sony's big budget AAA franchises. Gamepass is good for consumers charging $70+ per game is unsustainable for the consumer.
Some how Colin finds a way to call Xbox exclusives bad without saying it. I think Xbox has a lot of quality games. I like PS5 also, but damn, there are people with different perspectives with what they like from games.
He only likes a certain type of game, it’s apparent when he dismissed starfield because it’s “too big.” He’s been catered to with Sonys cinematics third party action adventure games.
@@2robjenkinsno its obsession with plastic box. I literally saw many ponies brushing off racing genre until gt7 was announced. Then, I saw lamenting cause racing game does not win goty. They actually like racing game but pretended to hate the genre only because xbox is dominating racing genre. Very same thing happening with starfield. Ponies Were delightful, then started bashing after knowing its ms exclusive. Colin follows the same pattern. He will find a way to hate hellblade 2, just because its ms Ip. Even, though its a playstation type game.
Yep. Dudes a PlayStation fanboy. Always shading Microsoft very chance he got. Dudes arrogant. Not sure why Destin thinks interviewing this ign has been was some epic get. 🙄
No, he wouldn’t, he’s been speaking out against this stuff when Sony buys devs for over a decade. Just like he did when they bought Bungie. Unlike you, he doesn’t shill for companies. His company refuses all gaming advertising and funding , and refuses to take free games and hardware from any company in the space. Frankly, he’s one of the only influencers with real morals.
@@praisethesun6078 inside info? Watch his damn show, it’s the biggest PS show out there. He was dead against Sony buying bungie. They refuse all game’s advertising and early copies, and have since they started. Those are facts. Im sorry you’re ignorant?
I couldn't get through the intro of this Colin fellow but the TLDR of his position basically seems to be "Because they are the SMALLEST console player, Xbox should not be allowed to acquire ABK to compete."
Have followed Colin since his beginning, never really was a fan of Destin but this has made me one. Great conversation and video! Hope to see more of you two in the feature.
Colin's *entire* argument about Game Pass being a "race to the bottom" akin to mobile games and micro transactions - is just absurd. You need only look to Apple Arcade to see an example of a mobile service much like Game Pass that has *ZERO* micro transactions and is a service that is very popular and works very well. The idea that Game Pass will inevitably lead to something like the micro transaction hellscape we see on mobile is silly given that all those $70 games you're buying today are still feeding you micro transactions. Subscription services literally allow these companies to count on a guaranteed income stream so they're less reliant on micro transactions. Colin has no idea what he's talking about and ignores every example that directly contradicts his incredibly uninformed opinions.
And how someone so "knowledgeable" about the economics of the industry can seem to forget numerous publishers including Sony have come out saying AAA as is, is unsustainable and high risk.
Bungie was not necessarily a stupid buy for Sony. Sony purchased them for Games as Service. A revenue stream. Similar to why Microsoft bought Mojang. Bungie will bring in a constant flow of money along with other incentives like the studios assets and very important... experience in FPS development.
It was a smart buy, but Sony implemented them horribly. It's smart for them to have Bungie oversee live service games, but it was stupid to have live service games live and die on Bungie's authority; that's nuts.
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Destin this was an excellent discussion. It would be great to have Colin on again for another Xbox cross PlayStation discussion.
Yes I do,and Sherlock is hot on his trail as well😏
Destin great interview between you both , I really enjoyed watching with him being a Dev and in the industry, maybe in mai nly PlayStation gamer since , 360 error with red ring of death on 3 machines , I've been moved to PS3 and PS4 and ps5 and then I bought a serious last year played all the halos again and the ones I missed , and that's the main reason why I bought an Xbox series s , my year subscriptions just run out but I will be renewing your end of August to play starfield , I paid the extra £30 to get the premium edition so I can play it from the 1st of September , so when you ask is starfield will be huge yes it's going to be very huge game
Really enjoyed this discussion Destin! Hoping to see more collaboration between you guys in the future!
Starfield being huge for Xbox was clear from the showcase😁
But I have no idea where Colin is getting this 10% completion rate for Hi-Fi Rush. I've found no evidence of that claim.
Im happy to see you are one of the few people from his past that will still talk to him. You are a stand up guy Destin
Mad props to Destin for not turning your back on Colin like countless others. Great convo, cheers 🍻
Honestly makes me happy that there are some people at IGN Colin is still close with
Right! Colin also had Ryan Mccaffrey on for an interview on the Last Stand Patreon
Yet... none of them had the balls to even interact with him for over a year after he left KF. It's "safe" now. That's all.
@@isturbo1984 very weird of you to assume people’s personal relationships behind the scenes
@@gabrielbaker2667 i'm not assuming anything. we all saw how his "friends" stopped talking to him after he left KF. he speaks about it all the time on his show how not a single one of them stood up for him when he was being called horrible names. there isnt one public interaction with him and Legarie or McCaffery until years later. its weird you are trying to deny this when we all saw it.
@@isturbo1984exactly nobody said hey our friend Colin isn’t a racist or this or that. It’s a joke, get a life. It hurt kinda funny letting him go more than it hurt Colin in the end. After that I didn’t watch it anymore it. The PlayStation podcast he’s been a part of or started which 3 of them have been number one.
Rare to see Colin getting any public support from industry folks or ign peeps. Bravo Destin! You a real one!
As an LSM patron, this was awesome. Good, level headed discussion between two industry veterans. Thanks, Destin!
Fellow LSM patron here as well 🤜 I love listening to colin.
Thanks Dustin for your openness to discussion! Enjoyed it.
As an old school devourer of IGN podcast I love seeing Colin and Destin coming together. ❤
So to Colin it was OK when Sony entered and was the smallest to be buying up publisher in EU which accounted for 40% of published games? Or buying up other studios? Now that someone else is doing it then it’s bad? Why does Destin allow shit like this to stand without calling it out?
Go ahead and name these huge studios sony bought up. You cant because its uncomparable. Bethesda and activision are much much bigher purchases for a company that already owns everything in multiple fields
@@PervySage723Sony purchased all their studios and you can blame Sony for MS acquisitions anyways. 🦄😭🤫
@@ryanb3908 didnt realize only 1 company is allowed to buy studios. You shoot your own arguement in the foot by saying that
@@PervySage723I sincerely hope that Sony PlayStation owners will never be able to play yakuza or persona on those consoles ever again. I suspect that time is not too far off.
@@manateemilk1 and I sincerely hope xbox gamers get good games coming. Maybe then theyll stop acting like wild animals
People easily forget that Sony was and is an electronics company that bought a video game company called "Psygnosis" to get into video games, and a record company called "CBS Records" to get into music, and a movie studio called "Columbia Pictures" to get into movies.
But it doesn’t fit Colin’s narrative so to him that’s organic😂
30 years ago is not 2023. Nothing they bought were big heavy hitting companies that people took note off. All their biggest titles are organic, (uncharted, last of us etc) grew out of the 360 generation when xbox had the biggest amount of bought exclusives and dlc of any generation. Microsoft are smash grabbing because they are failing.
Look at the sales numbers of PS5 vs xbox. People trust Sony to put out the goods. Microsoft are taking by stuffing all the the cash in executive's pockets
You can’t say that Cole, that fucks with Sony good guy narrative, take that back, we all prefer the fake history that Sony hired individuals and built teams from ground up blab blah blah yawn! 😂
Yeah you are spot on!
Shh. Don't you know you can't go against the double standards in gaming? It's illegal to say anything bad ever about Sony, Nintendo, and Valve (and Idk any other super popular gaming brand where fan truly stands for fanatic).
"The acquisition was rewarding for Sony in another aspect: development kits for PlayStation consoles. As it had previously published PSY-Q development kits for various consoles by SN Systems, Psygnosis arranged for them to create a development system for the PS based on cheap PC hardware. Sony evaluated the system during CES in January 1994 and decided to adopt it."
yeah, acquiring a company that had made successful and popular game development environments (some believe most Sega Genesis games were created using SN Systems Dev Environments which were the predecessor to psygnosis' PSY-Q PSX dev tools) to create a development kit for the PS1 is so evil. Fanboys dont think beyond what makes their favorite company look good
Colin is conflating correlation with causation. More people are playing those games because of Game Pass, which means more people that don't have the time or skill to finish those games are playing those games which brings the overall completion number down. There are a ton of games on Game Pass that I would have never played before, because I would have never bought them to give them a chance, this doesn't mean that I value those games less, in fact it makes me appreciate those games more because now I know what I was missing out on. It makes me more likely to buy (Buy not play through Game Pass, but buy) the sequels to those games or more games from the same developers.
Very few games have had sequels come out since Game Pass, the real value of Game Pass for developers and publishers will come when people that have tried their games on Game Pass for "free" end up becoming paying consumers.
It's like offering customers taste tests at supermarkets, yeah you are giving the customer your product away for free, but your hope in doing so it to make them returning customers.
Some games with longevity, that leave the service, get bought as well. Colin has never understood Gamepass or given it a chance likely because of his bias for the competitor.
@@TheCybercoco 100% he is so enamored with Sony that the man advocates against the consumer.
I bought Remnant II directly because of GamePass. I'd have never touched the first game without it coming to the service.
@@KyleSetFireand there is so many of the same story’s from people who tried something on gp they never would have tried otherwise and now they are a life long fan. Gp has been shown to throw a wider net for games and people who try and then like a game go on to buy it and spend more in it than they would have otherwise
I have bought a fair share of the games, that I originally got for free on Gamepass, because I am able to see the value in owning it, if/when it isn't there one day.
It’s so hard to appreciate the extent to which Xbox One was a failure and the range of its impact. Thankfully, we’re finally close to stepping out of the shadow of Don Mattrick’s console-generational impact.
That E3 presentation had me sell my Xbox the next day, and buy a ps3 and then when the PS4 launched I got one of those. Now I have since come back to Xbox for my own reasons, but I was vehemently opposed to Xbox for a few years.
Well I for one do appreciate how much of a failure it was. I would not have Gamepass right now if it wasn't for Xbox one. Being in last place is the only way to get the blue turtle shell. It all worked out perfectly for me!
Don’t get me wrong, I know folks understand Xbox One was a failure. But even among us who recognize that, the situation with the brand, platform, and developer support was worse.
Like Colin mentioned, Xbox 360 technically lost its generation but if it had maintained ANY momentum at all, I think they stood a real chance at making progress in the broader “console race.”
As we all know, not only did Xbox not maintain momentum, it screeched to a halt. The closure of Lionhead Studios stands out as one of the seminal markers of that time.
After Microsoft contemplated whether Xbox should exist after Xbox One’s underwhelming launch, the gaming community felt it. Game development is an industry that often moves in the direction of the community’s “vibe” and related narratives (whether based in reality or not).
In the Mattrick era, the community had all the ingredients to create a pretty nasty narrative about Xbox and they did, which kicked Xbox back to square one.
If the marketing wasn’t bad enough, Xbox eroded its fandom over night by severing Xbox One from the short, though significant legacy Xbox had built; Microsoft seemed to have abandoned indie devs and forced users to abandon their digital game libraries and console accessories. Again, back to square one…
The fact that the back-compat program was one of Spencer’s first initiatives seems to validate the notion that it was a grave strategic error to have folks leave their content behind on the previous gen.
What’s worse is that Sony poured salt in every one of these self-inflicted wounds and I don’t blame them. It’s a bit poetic that PlayStation dominated Xbox One with J Allard and Peter Moore’s 360 playbook. It was Sony that made the successor to the Xbox 360- not Microsoft.
For anyone familiar with software development, you know it’s a bear of an industry. Mistakes are expensive and major strategic shifts can take years.
It looks like these acquisitions may expedite the rate at which Xbox gains the momentum it sorely needs. I agree with the Sacred Symbols crew that organic growth is preferable but when a platform doesn’t have time for slower, organic growth and is up against a suffocating industry leader, different measures like Gamepass and acquisitions need to be options on the table, imo.
Note: while I’ve mostly focused on the strategic missteps of the Xbox One era, it’s not lost on me that Halo and other platform-identity franchises have been fumbled, which kept Xbox in the hole.
Coming off of the X360 I was unimaginably hyped for the next generation of Xbox hardware to come out...but after I watched Don Mattrick fumble the ball so badly I felt like I was honestly watching the end of the Xbox era by the end of that E3 Showcase.
@@bossredd-77 I was hyped too. Though, honestly, I wasn’t as turned off by the “TV TV TV” thing as most others were.
I was intrigued by the concept of an all-in-one entertainment box.
What I didn’t know at the time was how underpowered the box would be, especially with the additional compute resources the entertainment features and Kinect would take up. That strange prioritization that made Xbox One lose on the spec sheet AND PRICE was pretty mind blowing. And this is coming from someone who was a fan of Kinect!
Gamepass has introduced me to so many games that I would have never tried and now love.
Same here. For example: I tried Remnant from the ashes, did not know what to expect, loved it. Now I bought Remnant 2 and it's amazing. Thanks to gamepass Remnant 2 has become huge.
Same here, a lot of games I probably wouldn’t of played but gamepass gives these great games that fly under the radar a chance to shine.
Me too I feel like a kid again I can’t afford $70 every month
Yup but that’s a bad thing apparently 🤷🏻♂️
@@Helghast73 what's so funny it's a bad thing but he's putting his game in game pass LOL
I still haven't heard a good reason or example as to why the acquisition is bad. Every excuse is how its bad for Sony
Because it is bad for Sony. But that's it. Sony will lose a lot on this deal. They loe all the perks of their deal with Activision after 2024(unless they motion to terminate the deal early which there is word of that happening) and they will still most likely have to pay the 80/20 revenue share unless Xbox reverts that back to 70/30, which doesn't seem likely.
Also after hearing this guy speak, Reforge Gaming is definitely a Colin rip-off.
Because its going to create a acquisition war. Every Fanboy is now saying , "who is Sony going to buy to counter this - Who is microsoft going to buy next!"
Myself as an adult who owns and plays on all consoles - i don't want for Games / series /I.P's to be bought up and taken from each other. I think that's eventually going to be bad for gamers.
@@Dp3ch3Mod3UndrGround No its not. Sony doesn't have the resources. They're way in the red as a whole, and even their Bungie purchase was via loans.
@@Dp3ch3Mod3UndrGroundThat’s my take as well, all of this will eventually lead to us no longer having publishers that have been around for decades. You can’t simply replace a publisher as you can a single studio. These are long standing publishers that have a lot of ip that will either be exclusive to one platform or never see the light of day again. Smaller studios cool, but let the publishers continue to be the life blood of the industry.
@@Dp3ch3Mod3UndrGround Do you live under a rock? The acquisitions have been happening for a lot of years. NOW people are having problems with it? Spare me!
Sony is an electronics company that bought a video game company (Psygnosis) to get into video games, a music company (CBS Records) to get into music and a movie company (Columbia Pictures) to get into movies.
Yeah, I loved Psygnosis (I was an Amiga fan). You’re completely right in everything you say here.
Likewise an Amiga fan. Psygnosis was a massive publisher Europe, that's why Colin writes them off as small, Amiga wasn't a big thing over in America.
How organic! lol
@@lukesp00kColin is not using reason and rationale regarding Sony's entrance into the industry!
Key words being "to get into" not 20 years into their lifecycle. Psygnosis also isn't even remotely comparable to ABK in terms of size or quality and quantity of IP.
Colin is a smart guy but his bias and anti-Xbox cravings get in the way more than is good for him.
He was literally saying: “Microsoft doesn’t deserve any credit for the success of Starfield. It’s not their game.”
But about RedFall he was saying Microsoft was completely to blame for all the failings. It’s their studio and their responsibility.
See the hypocrisy and double standard?
Yeah, agreed. He wants it both ways. And nothing says un-biased like being on a show that refers to the symbols on the PS face buttons as “sacred symbols”. Sheesh.
I watched about 4 minutes and you can just hear it in his voice , his poor wife ! (She plays xbox, im sure he rips her every chance)!
@@ScrapKing73 "symbols on the PS face buttons as “sacred symbols”
Wait what?! lol
Hes not smart he just talks fast. It's like saying Ben Shipiro is a smart guy.
Such an intellectually dishonest dude, he knows exactly what he is doing.
I hate the narrative argument that PS3 ended up better than Xbox 360. its only because the world does not like USA products. Xbox360 literally out sold PS3 lifetime sales in US 47 million to 29 million.
Xbox 360 also had a higher attach rate, sold more games, etc. Sure, the PS3 ultimately sold more consoles, but that doesn't make them the "winners" if all the games were being sold on the 360.
Games are the moneymaker, not consoles.
Xbox live gold made a crap load for MS during the ps3/X360 era. While PS+ was free. In terms of pure money making, MS would have been the happier of the 2
No the PS3 only sold better than the Xbox 360 because it was the cheapest Blu-ray player😂
Xbox isn't officially present in as many countries as PlayStation for whatever reason.
IF they were , Xbox 360 would very likely sell over 100mil
Let's be real, Sony fears this deal not because they think they'll lose COD, it's because it'll be everywhere and it will hurt them much more than you could possibly think. How many Nintendo fans will rather buy the game for the Nintendo platform they already own? How many people will prefer to pay for Geforce now? Game Pass? Those last two don't even have the hardware barrier.
Sony enjoyed the status quo, they liked the business model as it was because they were dominating in it. So Microsoft, pushing Game Pass and having call of duty on game pass suddenly changes that business model, and Sony don’t want that which is why they were so aggressive when trying to block the deal. They know eventually, they’re going to lose.
@@sillymikeyOh well. Sucks to be Sony. Perhaps they should've done something to compete.
Yea that's a way too look at it but I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say... I think this might be actually good for Sony per se even great. Sony won last gen and are dominating once again this gen. MS doing this is going to push Sony to actually be more competitive now which at the end of the day the consumers win. Also COD if it did leave PS while Sony may still be the market leader there would be devs chomping at the bit to fill that hole in the PS catalog that COD left that is a F TON of money just left on the table. I'm sure a lot of devs would love to fill that niche so if anything this if works out well will breed more creativity and competition in the space and let's not forget Sony has Bungie and Guierilla and Insomniac all are well versed in the FPS genre so I think Sony if they make the right moves will be just fine.
Sony is doing fine if you haven't noticed.
Despite Gamepass,for every Xbox Series console out there,there are 2 PlayStation 5s.
Gamepass is growing.
PlayStation is growing even so.
@@GameslordXY Those are totally made up numbers. Don't say things you don't actually know.
I don't know why...but Colin is like nails on a blackboard for me. I don't know if its his voice, his speech pattern, his opinion or all of the above. Just seems like a dude that loves the sound of his own voice.
Having said that....I watched the interview and the part where it all falls apart is that NONE of these arguments seemed to be an issue prior to MS. The concerns over the "market", consolidations, "creative" issues, the economy. It was all non-existing. It all boils down to not wanting things to change. But as someone that has been around since the 80s., buddy...gaming changes and the business models that drive that market has always been an evolving beast.
I agree. Well said 👏👏👏
Colin's irritating speech pattern is "I'm too smart and cool to yell and be outraged" but the content of his bullshit is just the same as any creator who farms outrage content. Dude is disingenuous.
He literally claims that consolidation is good if Nintendo and Sony do it but bad when the studio with the literal highest Metacritic average in a single year of all time because of creative issues. You know, the one where they literally ask the developers what they want to do and write them a blank check. 😂
I agree 100%. Of all the people Destin has brought in his videos this guy is the least likable and interesting.
Agree with all of the above from everyone that commented.
This was great. If there was a way to engineer more of these types of conversations where the other side can come on and have a friendly debate, that would be awesome. Do more with Colin in the future!
Colin is always open to friendly debates. Unfortunately, the industry turned him into a boogie man because of one bad joke.
The world we live in.
43:46 so how is Sony a creative company when all they’ve been putting out has been reboots and re-masters, and sequels we are literally going to be getting the last of us to remake a game that’s not even three years old
Ikr?
And Xbox has put out what? If they don’t buy starfield what else do they have…
@@jshjsh6191Hi-Fi Rush was a totally new IP with an unused game style, a fresh art style by a Dev team that usually don't do anything like it.
@@jshjsh6191tell me you’re not a pony without telling me you’re a pony. 🧂
@@ShadyDBZ4 And tell me yr not a idiot without telling me
I hate the fact that people don't care about those of us who don't have much money who use gamepass to play most of our games and enjoy it just like the rest because they don't have money issues they aren't bothered
Facts. Games I played on PS4 in seven years: 36, Games I played on PS5 in two years: 3 (Ragnarok, GT7 and astrobot), Games I played on series X in two years: 98 out of 140 tried. 6 owned by me.
@erregibi2060 same here, I played on my ps5 gow ragnarok, Horizon forbidden west and gt7.
On xbox seris x with gamepass I lost count. I bought about 6 games on xbox.
When I was a lot younger, I went to the shop and rented my games. Then the shop stopped doing that. Thankfully gamepass came along and I can enjoy games for a low price. It is so good for, I guess 90% of gamers who doesn't want or can't spend 70€ every month for a game. Even Sony agreed, jumped on the wagon and did the same thing.
Colin acknowledges that it's a good deal (he says "you'd be stupid not to" use Game Pass).
However, he is concerned that it is not "sustainable", or not beneficial to the industry in the long-term. For example, he might be worried that the subscription-based model does not create favourable market conditions for the creation of big budget, cinematic, narrative-driven single player games. Whether this is true or not is largely a matter of fact, independent of whether Game Pass currently offers good value for people with little disposable income.
@@G_Doggy_Jrit being sustainable is no one's problem but Microsoft. However, they are one of the smartest companies around. They've obviously done the analytics to ensure it would be sustainable for them and they can deliver it at a price point that works for us. I mean they have years of data to be able to figure out what the average person spends in a year and if the yearly gamepass subscription would make them more money or at least break even.
He's also just ignoring major points all video long. I wish Destin would've pushed back more
A lot of Sony fans haven't caught up with the fact that Microsoft has several deals that appeal to low income households. This is why the Series S and Game Pass exist. Meanwhile Sony is marketed only toward high income households who want something that is more luxurious and premium. And now because they are "losing" in a market niche that they voluntarily ignored they are getting a bit worried.
Regardless of what platform(s) you are on and what your income is, Microsoft wants to provide you with a way for you to access their games. And I think that is a very cool thing.
Between the yen right now and Sony's equity to debt (a company's total liabilities and divide them by its total shareholders' equity), and world interest rate it would be a bad idea for Sony to spend alot right now
At the very least spending money on 3rd party exclusives seems like a bad idea as I doubt it makes Sony all that much money and is more about denying Xbox games. If they are going to spend money, it'll be better off on buying new studios but I wonder if that's going to be feasible for them right now with the world being more aware of their scummy practices due to them trying to stop the Activision/Blizzard deal and doing so poorly.
@@urazz7739 whered that come from. I don't care about the console war just debunked a bad claim
Xbox is losing money. It’s Microsoft’s biggest loser and has been for years even without acquisitions it was losing money. It’s a huge hedge bet for Microsoft. It’s got a couple years at least before they pull the plug on it or at least start to dissolve and merge studios. Gamepass still has at least 2 more price increases over the next year or so.
@@MickeyFKNMouse microsoft made 140+ Billion last year in profit. Why would they spend 70 billion and pull the plug? That's like buying a house and not moving in
Here's a business lesson, value isn't always in plain sight. Microsoft bought nuance a company that makes 300 million a year for 20 billion. Just because you don't see the strategy doesn't mean one doesn't exist 🤷🏼♂️
@@technicallyme And the xbox division is making good money since 2019 more that they spend ( not counting Activision/blizzard/king ) last info was for sep 2022 and the revenue was 3.6 billions..
Saying that competition would never do this kind of acquisitions. Shall we tell him how Sony started it the game space? How they almost killed Nintendo by buying publishers and keeping those games of Saga and Nintendo. Or how they basically killed Sega this way. Even telling them go 3th party. We are the new kings in town. Sony also bought most of their studio’s.
Or how they are paying studio’s to keep those games of Xbox. Even Spider-Man 2018.
I mean. I try to be neutral.
I play on PC anyway. But I can not finish this video Destin.
Love your content normally.
But this one feels like listening to someone who is much in love with his device. Like really in love.
Maby they are even married, who knows. ❤ Well till something better comes along. Like the 6 😉
Everybody seems to forget that Sony purchased some Amiga developers in the beginning.Psygnosis was one of the first.
Wipeout, Colony Wars, lemmings all came from that studio.
I didnt listen to that lying whining Colin either . What a Joke. Destin might be showing his true colors with this video. thumbs DOWN!
Literally vast majority of the studios Sony have nowadays, were not founded by them, they bought. Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Bluepoint, Guerrilha, Nixxes etc. and they keep buying more and more studios, the amount of studios they buy per year compare to the number of studios that an actual publisher would have.
>implying that Spider-Man 2018 was ever going to not be an exclusive.
Can you guys STOP with the revisionist history. Sony was NOT the reason Nintendo and SEGA took huge hits in the 90's, it was both respective company making missteps after missteps that harmed them.
Nintendo was in an era of extreme hubris while working with Sony on a disc based console. They dropped out of the deal at the last minute without telling Sony, then announced that they were working with Phillips instead. The Phillips deal also fell through because Nintendo wasn't trying to give a revenue split.
This caused a huge delay of their next successor to the SNES. When it finally came in 1996 (2 years after PSone), it had lost a ton of market share, and still being cartridge based many devs decided not to work on it because of the expense. Games like FF VII went exclusive to PSone on the simple fact that they could split the game into multiple disc, which was an impossibility on the N64.
SEGA killed themselves by dropping way too many failed hardware releases in such a short amount of time, with almost no marketing.
GameGear, SEGA CD, SEGA 32X, SEGA Nomad, and the SEGA Saturn all FAILED within a 5 year span. With SEGA of America making most of those missteps.
SEGA announced a higher price point for the SATURN compared to the PSone, then announced that it was available IMMEDIATELY. Many retailers didn't even receive their shipments yet. 😂. They shadow dropped a console. 😂😂😂
By the time the DreamCast released they had 5 failed home and handheld consoles, and didn't even release a SONIC game for the Saturn.
People forget that games like Tomb Raider and Resident Evil also released on the Saturn, they simply didn't sell well on the platform... and SEGA refused Tekken because they had Virtua Fighter.
I'm tired of you guys who didn't actually live in the 90's and didn't experience what actually happened trying to change history so that you can make PS some weird boogeyman.
They didn't money-hat anything, most of it just happened through circumstance of being the ONLY viable console in that era.
Interesting that Colin acknowledges that AAA 200 million budget games aren’t sustainable and that because of that publishers are to scared to take the risk to create new experiences. And at the same time Colin believes Gamepass is bad for the industry, that must be because he believes it’s bad for Sony. Subscription services like Gamepass make it less risky to be creative, because they don’t need to sell millions of copy’s to make back the investment.
The lengths people will go to to avoid engaging with criticism of their favourite brand.
"Someone criticised my favourite brand... that must be because they're a fan of the competitor, which means they are biased, so I don't need to engage with their argument! Phew!"
I think you may have missed his point or perhaps he didn’t explain it clearly like he has on Sacred Symbols. He’s afraid for the art form and the potential race to the bottom due to ravenous nature subscription services have for content. I’m sure I’m missing a lot of how he has put it. I see both sides but understand his concern.
The problem with that is that gamepass will not cover the cost of a 200 million dollar game and doesn’t make it any more sustainable. What gamepass can do is alleviate the risk for smaller games and indie devs who are just trying to make it to the next game. The Last of Us Part 2, one of those $200 million games, needs to make a profit and it did.
At $200 million they would need to sell almost 3 million games at $70 a piece to break even (not including production and marketing costs to keep this simple) they sold 10 million at the time I’m writing this.
Can Microsoft afford to pay multiple companies $700 million+ to make up for the loss of sales by being on gamepass? And if they could is that even worth it?
Well said
Something similar is happening in Hollywood. They are sticking with IP to make gangbuster bucks. Creativity is risky. But now with the strike, we may see a whole bunch of smaller indie films made and it will be great since they get exposure.
Same will happen through gamepass. Unique experiences will get the exposure they deserve
Collin saying "why cant a game just be good enough to stick around for 3 months, I don't get it" But also saying "Halo infinite was bad, xbox destroyed Halo" while the only criticism it got was about its live service content.
Colin is consistently inconsistent when it comes to his criticism regarding Xbox.
This is an awesome conversation. Really enjoy your content and LSM. Would love to see more of this.
Glad I just found out about Destin's channel! Great show. Destin is a super nice guy. My son and I met him at Pax South many years ago (around the time Colin and Greg had just left IGN). We saw him and said "hey Destin", he was very cool, even hung out with me and my son for lunch for about 30 minutes. Had a fun convo over cheap nachos, great memory!
It's very brave of Destin to have Colin on his show, especially since everyone at IGN and kinda Funny black balled Colin in 2017.
Colin’s show is bigger than Kinda Funny’s. His patreon dwarves theirs.
I listen to both of yall each week on your respective shows and I loved this conversation. It was well informed and realistic without hyperbole, and with genuine respect given to one another. I would love to see this crossover again, either on this channel or on LSM!
Colin's bias is so blatant it is crazy. He also said about big publishers not liking sub services. But Ubisoft has there own with day and date and even include all dlc, EA has there own with day and date on PC.
Take another look at their subscriptions, they’re completely different in value and proposition from GamePass. Big publishers would never burn money in the way MS does, there’s no other subscription that mimics GamePass and Activision was never going to allow games like COD on it without acquisition. If MS had a sustainable model, both Ubisoft and EA’s would be mimicking it.
Remind me how Ubisoft is faring as of late.
Thank you Destin for putting this up! I like both of you guys so it's nice to see you get together :)
I am not entirely buying Colin's arguments, feel a bit of Sony bias from most of his discourse. "Sony is a creative party and microsoft provides services and software..." Clearly Microsoft has work on their hands for adding more to their library and improving first party but they arent a complete loss. Also square is putting final fantasy 14 (something they care for) on xbox, likely coming to gamepass. So will WoW.
I own all three of the major consoles, and a decked out PC. I prefer to play on my PC mostly.
I have zero respect for Colin's opinions here. His viewpoint has ALWAYS been how does this hurt Sony or how does Sony benefit from their contacts and acquisitions.
The hard truth for him to swallow is that Sony won't EVER do anything consumer friendly WITHOUT being forced to by their competitors. None of these companies truly care about their fan base, but at least Xbox is making an attempt to create a consumer friendly market.
Yeah, that's why I scoff when Colin claims to look from a "consumer perspective". What a joke.
Well put!
Your viewpoint is the exact opposite if you think Xbox is doing anything out of some kind of kindness to the consumer. The image they project might, but they are just as calculating as Sony.
@themetalpig7613 Obviously, reading comprehension isn't something you've quite tackled yet. I clearly stated that "none of these companies truly care about their fan base, but at least Xbox is making an attempt to create a consumer friendly market."
Sony, on the other hand, hasn't tried even in the slightest to add actual value to what they provide.
They withhold first-party games from their PS+ service on day one, and they charge FULL PRICE for moderate to no effort "upgrades" of games their consumers have already purchased.
Let's not forget them charging for PS5 updates to PS4 games.
On the other side of the consumer market, Xbox releases ALL first-party games, and many, many more on Game Pass DAY ONE. Many of my BC Xbox 360 games have received 60fps boost and HDR support for free. EVERY game that I've purchased for the Xbox One that has seen an updated version release for Series X/S has been auto updated FOR FREE.
Again, at least Xbox is TRYING to improve company/consumer relations by not squeezing every penny out of their players.
@@themetalpig7613 A competitive market IS a consumer friendly market and the ABK acquisition does exactly that it increases competition. It was not MS's goal, but the goal is achieved none the less.
Theres way too much thought going into video games from Colin. He’s peeling back layers that don’t need peeling. Sony was buying exclusives and keeping content off of Xbox, and he literally said "buy a PS" don’t champion when your allegiance company does it, then scoff at the competition for trying to level the playing field.
Sony never removed traditional 3rd party publishers from the Xbox ecosystem.
@@scruz6293 yeah just everything else. Stop dude we all see what Sony does. Oh Final Fantasy is Sony’s? GTFOH
@@skywalk3x final fantasy 14 Just got announced for Xbox. You know what
Didn’t get announced for Sony? Anything by Bethesda. If you’d like to compare the franchises that are now removed from the Sony ecosystem I’d be happy to do that.
@@scruz6293 no shit but how many are t on Xbox? What about the one that’s on PS5 NOW. Don’t be so stupid, oops Too late
@@scruz6293spiderman? They also tried buying Starfield to keep it off Xbox forever that's when Xbox bought Bethesda this is playstations tactics coming back to bite them and I love it 🤣 PlayStation is the most anti consumer company in gaming
Yes!!! Colin X Destin X Ryan mcafery make it happen
Get Colin on Podcast Unlocked! Lol
The same game might have a higher completion rate on PS than on Xbox - but when that game is on Game Pass it only makes sense that would be the case. Because on Game Pass you're going to get *MANY* more people checking a game out that they otherwise would never spend money on. They may or may not play that game through to completion. But over on PS where that game isn't offered to them for "free" then the people playing it are already more engaged with it because they were willing to drop $70 on it - so of *course* the completion rate will be higher among that group of people.
I've played a whole slew of games on Game Pass for just an hour or two just to check them out - games I otherwise would never give a second thought. Sometimes one of those games will click with me and I'll devote dozens of hours to it - other times I stop playing after just a short while with the game. In that latter case, me and people like me are lower the completion rate for that game - but that doesn't suggest what Colin is insisting it does (that people just aren't interested in finishing games on a subscription service) - it just says that people are more willing to try things they might otherwise never try. And that's a *GOOD* thing.
Colin has a point though. You're more incentivized to complete something that you paid for, that's just how human psychology works.
It's way easier to NEVER finish the movie you started on Netflix, than it is to never finish a 4K bluray movie you bought for $25, even if it was on a whim.
Completion rates and game sales are down across the board on Xbox and that includes titles that aren't on GamePass. They're actually losing market share. They've already getting outsold 2:1 (21 million vs 40 million) in only 2.5 years.
Something has shifted in the Xbox fan base and you can hear it in their rhetoric. They no longer want to buy full priced titles, and they are demonstrably hyper focused on games that come to GP.
@@kthebarbarian8223 His point is meaningless though. A game being made available for free will naturally draw attention from people who have only a passing interest in it - this will depress completion rates because they'll move on once they've seen enough (or something else gets their attention) whereas people who plunked down the cash for something did so because they have more than just a passing interest and are therefore more likely to complete it. He's literally just stating the obvious and acting like it's a bad thing that people are checking out more and more games than they otherwise ever would. It's absurd.
@@kthebarbarian8223 Really? I dropped 70 bucks on Hogwarts, and I still haven't finished it. I would like to the sources he is using to keep saying this nonsense. Granted I am only one person in a group of millions. However, a quick Google search will show that about 25% of players have beaten the game at least in March, probably more now. Keep in mind that this game is NOT on Game Pass so what is the excuse for not finishing this game? It is definitely not Game Pass' fault. Colin is a dumbass if he truly believes that.
It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing, black or white. The subscription model might have some arguably good effects and some arguably bad effects.
You could compare with music streaming. For some, Spotify might allow them to discover music they never otherwise would have. However, it might also encourage a shallower engagement with particular artists and albums.
@@G_Doggy_Jr I never said it had to be black and white - Colin is the one treating it that way. As for "encouraging shallower engagement with particular" content - so what?
When I was a kid I played Sonic on the Sega Genesis so much that I knew more secrets in the first Sonic game than even the strategy/tip guides had. I haven't touched that game in almost 30 years and I'm confident I would still remember 90% of the secrets I knew back then because I played it over and over and over again. I didn't play it that much because it was a great game though - I did so out of necessity. It was the only game I could afford at the time and so I played it and replayed it and played it again. I beat it countless times without even getting hit. If I had access to a subscription service at the time, it would have allowed me to broaden my gaming horizons and experience many more different things - resulting in "shallower engagement" with Sonic - but... that's not a bad thing. Quite the contrary.
When people have access to an expansive library of games they will only engage deeply with the ones that they feel are worthy of that deep engagement, as opposed to replaying the same shallow experiences over and over again out of necessity.
4:00 Without having to make these types of acquisitions? Um, I feel like this is a very closed minded statement. They actively made OTHER types of legal transactions that lead to the demise of the creativity pool for Xbox. Sony is notorious for buying exclusivity and blocking competitors in other territories. They don't HAVE to make these types of acquisitions when they can do other things that will ultimately make them #1 in the market. The 22 years mark is also flawed as Sony has been buying studios creativity for years. Like wtf is this guy on?
I dont necessarily agree with a lot Colin is saying here, but I'm glad to see even he knows and acknowledges that Starfield is going to be huge hit for MS/Bethesda
Yeah he is way too much of a closet pony. He throws in so many subtle jabs and lies whenever he can
Should be yes.
Let's hope it's not next Redfall
I hope Bethesda will release Elder Scrolls 1 and 2.
@@liamflan9553closet pony? He's a playstation fan thru and thru, but he plays games on any console whether it's Xbox, Nintendo, Sega etc that grabs his attention. He's a gamer in general
@@liamflan9553lol people like you are pathetic. He states his opinion, and never says it’s anything but his opinion. You guys hate him because he has the biggest PlayStation podcast, even though he criticizes Sony all the time.
Stop fellating corporations. They aren’t your friends, and it isn’t a team. They want your money. That’s it.
My issue with hardcore PlayStation fans is that they try so hard to combine two CLEARLY different ideologies into one. PlayStation is in the business of selling hardware using high quality exclusives as it’s vehicle. Microsoft recognized that ideology is not working for them and decided to pivot. Offering a one stop shop of a variety of indie to high quality AAA games to gamers everywhere via a subscription based platform. Both strategies work and is unique to each company . Why should Microsoft have to use a strategy that another company believes in? ….Gaming!
I think it comes down to the sustainability on the AAA front. Legacy games (1year+ older) and the AA space I think is a great for Game Pass. I think there will be a major problem with in-house AAA's and how that works with GP. As an Xbox owner I've not been impressed the last few years
@@tombrown1979 I agree. Outside of the typical Forza, Halo, Gears trope we haven’t seen anything super worthwhile. Redfall was a bust. However, I think Microsoft is in the initial stages of doing something innovate that has never been done before by placing AAA titles day 1. They should be able to further explore this approach within a reasonable and competitive manner. If they have enough cash on hand to eat the cost of paying for games up front until Gamepass becomes profitable enough so be it.
No one’s telling MS to do business like PlayStation, but MS shouldn’t require interference with Sony’s business just for them to be successful, they can make their own games and rise to prominence without taking away long established revenue. You don’t need acquisitions regardless of which approach you take.
just say fanboy. the "hardcore playstation fanbase" lol. lets call a rose a rose. you sound ridiculous trying to repackage this old, tired convo. fanboys suck. we know.
Sony started the PS1 by buying publishers …… it took MS 20 years to buy their first publisher 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Man all their important 1st party games are from studios they bought. Sony didn't build shit and I say this as someone that has owned multiple Sony systems and not 1 Xbox.
@joceja23 Psygnosis was also the publisher for another small Scottish studio, DMA Designs (they both worked on Lemmings) but after Sony stopped them from publishing 3rd party games DMA signed a new publishing agreement with Take2 and released the original GTA, DMA is now Rockstar North.
Sony PlayStation had the keys for GTA under the Psygnosis wing!!
@@MaximumCarnage-
regardless of which platform you prefer…. Buying Studio A is no different to buying Studio B….. you either have to accept that these acquisitions happen in gaming especially for that exclusive content or you’re against exclusivity and want every game on every platform.
But to use Colin’s argument….. renting is bad for business so it’s always better to buy and own your content
I can’t help the feeling that if Sony was buying ABK Colin wouldn’t be saying half the things he is, very pro Sony
That’s a solid feeling due to him having the largest PlayStation podcast in the world but he super anti consolidation. He has been saying for the past 2 years he doesn’t want Sony to acquire more studios. Namely square enix.
@@gethatmoney1 his bs would outweigh that feeling
This is such a great discussion between Colin, a known Playstation fan, and Destin, a notable Xbox fan. They may not agree on everything but their arguments were way better articulated than any fanboys arguments I've seen in the comments of various websites. It was nuanced, well-argued, and in-depth. Great job to Destin and Colin. Would love to see a regular "Crossfire-style" show with them both.
Well said.
How can you tell?
Right. This is phenomenal content damn that word. A well informed well argued discussion on both sides.
To sum up all of Colin's interviews:
XBox does it: Bad
PlayStation does it: Perfectly fine.
He's so salty of XBox.
Did you watch the interview?
@@MrBeesknees95 nope they only hear what they wnat to hear for "console war points".
Who is here from the golden era IGN days? Love seeing these two together again ❤
Just keep Colin off of anything Xbox related. May he have the strength to endure this generation!
36:12 it received mega amount of scrutiny that’s OK however, going around in fear mongering is not scrutiny is called what I just said, fear mongering the gaming industry is not being monopolized by Activision blizzard being bought they barely make up 10% of the gaming industry
Just as an FYI, if Starfield had a budget of $400 Million to develop, they would only have to sell 5.8 Million units to hit profit.
And a game like that?! Yeeaahh... that's *completely doable.*
Has the budget been reported? Bethesda budgets tend to be lower than people expect.
@@Dave_FPG The budget was over $200 million according to some reports on Google but haven't seen any reports of 400m
@@Dave_FPG
Not that I know if. I was just using that number as an example because that's the number Colin threw out. I have no idea what the actual budget is, but I am pretty confident that, despite the game being on GamePass Day One, Starfield is going to sell 10 Million copies.
Nah Bethesda made it for 50 million and the modderes will make the rest for free😂😂😂
Nah. Probably $200~$250 million. Maybe $300m.
No way it costs as much as Star Citizen.
This was seriously, seriously good content. Thanks so much for doing this!
What xbox is doing now is what Sony did when Sony first got into gaming, Sony purched one of the biggest publishers in Europe when ps first started, xbox, when first started, got a few small studios at the time like bungie but now have realised they need the content to be there and that's something Sony has had for years.
It's not the same.
Sony bought Psygnosis for $20 million in 1993, right before the launch of the PSone. Their biggest game franchise at the time was "Lemmings", and just a few short years prior to that they were just a collective of 3rd party devs sharing a workspace.
WIPEOUT, and Colony Wars weren't created by them until AFTER the purchase.
To compare its purchase to ABK is just asinine revisionist history. A game publisher in the 80's and early 90's was no bigger than a small dev team now. MS took on 10K new employees with this deal, Sony only took in 50 with Psygnosis.
It's much closer to Sony buying BUNGIE than it is to MS buying ABK. A small self publisher, vs a giant corporate publisher.
@@kthebarbarian8223I'm guessing his talking point came from an Xbox fanboy, been seeing this alot lately and its sad.
@@kthebarbarian8223 Revisionist is saying this is revisionist! At that time gaming was nowhere near it is today, did not had a fraction of the income it has today, Psygnosis was one of the most valuable companies at the time in the gaming industry, because there was not such thing as billion dollars publishers yet! And Sony did not only buy Psygnosis, it had most of the production line for CDs and parts for their console. They lied, cheated and misinformed to take SEGA out of the picture and started trying to backstab Nintendo.
Microsoft may be buying a huge publisher nowadays, but in market share, Psygnosis had at that time about the same, or even more, as ABK has now, they already had other franchises like Shadow of the Beast, Barbarian, Chrono Quest, Dracula and others... They were huge in the Atari and Amiga market.
You can't compare value or even size in something that happend 30 years ago and say that "it's not the same because it was way cheaper and they were smaller", of course, the market was way smaller, besides other economic reasons, at that time being a billion dollar company was like being a trillion dollar company is today!
@@zartul
All false, with ZERO examples.
What did they lie, cheat or misinform about to harm SEGA?
I guess having 5 failed hardware products in 5 years didn't do it, it was Sony lying according to your revisionist history. 😂😂😂
And Nintendo backstabbed Sony, not the other way around. All sources have confirmed that this is how it went, again you're spreading more revisionist history. In typical Nintendo fashion, they shot themselves in the foot leading to them delaying their next console after the SNES and Sony creating the PSone.
It's amazing to think that Nintendo is Dr. Frankenstein and the PlayStation is Frankenstein's monster. 😂 Blame Nintendo for their creation.
And it's NOT the same. Psygnosis was NOT the largest independent publisher in existence at the time, nor did they have a established top tier multiplatform IP that was integral to the landscape of gaming.
Psygnosis wasn't integral to Nintendo or SEGA's success and had almost ZERO impact on them after being purchased. Nor was PS an established console manufacturer of 22 years when they made the purchase. You're comparing Apple's to oranges even 30 years ago.
Psygnosis was so early on they helped Sony make dev kits for 3rd party's because they originally were a collective that helped Independent devs with technology.
Sony were so clueless at the time they didn't even have dev kits & you think this is the same as a $70 Billion purchase of the biggest independent publisher from an established console manufacturer. Nice try though.
@@kthebarbarian8223 They were responsible for 40% of europes games market and had a ton of studios lemmings was like the flappy birds of the era, that game was made by dma design who went on to make the first ever gta game, nice try though.
So colin compared the attachment rate of Hi Fi Rush, a brand new IP, way smaller fanbase, a game that people didnt have to spend money on...to Final Fantasy 16. A huge franchise that is known worldwide, and that people PAID 70 dollars a pop for. Idk
The main reason PS3 was less competitive vs X360 was because PS3 was an inexpensive BluRay player. People would buy the system, then not buy games, dlc or subs.
Which is VERY bad for highly subsidized below market cost hardware, that was supposed to be offset by pricier games/subs/DLC.
Yep I was 17 when the PS3 came out and people forget the average price of Blu Ray players back then was like $1,200 so the PS3 at $600 was a steal for that alone
@@Ranger.TomGunna Lets not forget they took a $400-$600 bath on every PS3 sold before the cost cutting revisions. They only finally dug out of that huge hold mid way through last gen.
And the 360 was a red light flashing death I know people who ran through so many 360 because they were fucked…. They rushed out a console that they knew wasn’t ready for launch just to try and jump Sony and it cost them big
Syphon filter would be a cool pick. I think people are primed for a kind of futuristic tactical espionage game.
100%
Sony would need to rewrite Gabe Logan and the premise to not be so generic. My favorite by far was Omega Strain. In that one you could create multiple characters. There was co-op, though I don't recall using it.
Why Pony Moriarty? He claims MS having exlusives as bad for industry and Sony having em as next greatest thing, when Sony doesn’t have em then “why do they matter”
Ponies do major mental gymnastics.
Great conversation
So Microsoft is going to make so many of these games more accessibility than ever. And this is a bad thing? LOL.
@@JJF-ftwRegardless, so long as Game Pass remains the way it is, it does benefit gamers. And it's consistent income on top of acting as the new Xbox Gold Membership but better in every way.
@@JJF-ftwNice try Colin. Everyone knows you are a complete muppet. 🤦🏻
Exactly!
No need to make your snide comment because you didn't understand the conversation. But your comment got some likes, so I guess you're feeling good about yourself. Classic compensation.
@@themetalpig7613I think you and I would be good friends, I think it and post the comment.
sony paying to keep games off xbox and keeping it a secret is a problem
Also Colin, speaking of fostered things...did Sony foster Bungie? Or was that Microsoft.
It was neither. Bungie was already a well established developer before they even made Halo.
As well-established as they were after making Halo for years? Eh nah.
@@deadplanet2397 literally doesn't matter. they had also began making halo well before they were acquired by MS. It was originally supposed to be a game for Mac.
I've been an Xbox guy since it came out, before I was nintendo but I also had ps1-3 and I just always gravitated to nintendo for smash mario kart/party etc but xbox for everything else. I considered getting a Ps but when everything stopped being exclusive like tekken, wrestling, mgs etc I never seen the reason to own one. I like gow and last of us but not enough to fork over $400+ for a handful of games.
Colin, people value their dollar if you spend more you will complete what you buy out of obligation and buyer’s bias. And while that is not always the case people will spend money where their interests are, they have released stats about people playing MORE games and TRYING new ones which WHY the completion rate is lower, because YOU DONT HAVE TO SPEND AN ENTIRE BILL ON ONE GAME THAT MONTH.
whats the point of playing games if you don't finish them?
Many are missing the point here. People are playing more games on game pass and not finishing them. The completion rate is a way to compare the two platforms without knowing the numbers. Wether its good for the consumer is not the point, its about the people who make the games.
@@neo_wise5543 this serves as demo/full play and the numbers represent that. Do you think you complete all the shows you watch on Netflix or do you try more shows when you finish the ones you really liked lol like I can’t believe I have to explain this to people.
@@imniallg I’m sorry was this comment for me or neo above you
@@neo_wise5543 To have fun.
Microsoft funded Halo, Call of Duty, Mass Effect, Dragon Age Origins, Bioshock 1 & 2, Elder Scrolls 4 & 5, Kotor, Doom 3 on console, Gears of War. By Colin’s logic, Xbox should be fine buying at least big portions of EA, Take Two, Bethesda and Activision.
And by Xbox fan logic, those are all examples of moneyhatting games and should be condemned. Right?
@@hanspennyloaf335 I think money hatting games is fine, too.
Yeah not a fan of Colin. His xbox" bad" opinion sucks and he is annoyingly biased! His game pass is bad for creativity and quality might be the worst take in gaming as a whole! This resulted in the first thumbs down i ever gave this channel.
Not a surprise. Colin has been dishing out extremely dumb takes for more than a decade now. I can't believe people still listen to this dingus.
I love Destin, but Colin has had unhinged and non-sensical takes/opinions since his days at IGN, and they have somehow gotten progressively worse since then. It is incredibly difficult to watch anything with him in it. I will skip voting on his one, cause I don't want to Thumb down any of Destin's vids, and I watch all of them.
The 3rd Party exclusive deals were killing the brand so Microsoft decided to buy the companies altogether. Look who they acquired and when they did
I mean Sony paid to block 2 Bethesda games and then Xbox caught wind they were working to block Starfield next so that's why they bought Bethesda. It came out in the court docs. Serves them right.
@@MaximumCarnage- Timed block, bro Timed, huge difference. MS could easily outbid Sony in this timed wars don't you think?
@@PhazeyBlur Yes fanboy. Street Fighter 5 was timed all right ... timed the entire generation. FF7 remake same. Nice timed block there. Tons of Japanese/Korean blocked timed or otherwise to stop Xbox from ever getting a foothold in Japan. Having constant shit blocked doesn't hurt Xbox at all. During all the court stuff with Apple we got to see how dirt Sony plays so I don't blame Microsoft for playing hard now. Sony wants to play dirty and keep poking a bear well deal.
Enjoy your church of Sony bro lmao
@@PhazeyBlurthey wanted starfield exclusive forever not timed this is playstations tactics coming to bite them
Soulless?
What I think is soulless is just throwing a bunch of money at someone so that they can't decline it and letting them do all the hard work while you benefit.
I much rather the approach that MS has gone with of buying the whole company and putting the rest of your money/company on the line to do all the hard work while you benefit from it BUT also putting yourself at risk if that company fails.
Tell me what happens to Sony if Square-Enix had a string of bad games, so much so that they go bankrupt and vanish. Nothing, absolutely nothing, so PS will have a few less games, big deal.
In the MS situation on the other hand, if ABK suddenly had a string of bad games so much so that they are losing money year after year, this will directly impact MS, maybe they will have to lay people off, maybe they will have to sell some part of their business, maybe if the problem is big enough it negatively impacts the rest of MS/Xbox financially and they suffer.
By a company owning a another company their incentive for that second company to do well is much much stronger than it is for a company who just pays for another company to work for them, that company only cares about the second company in as far as it could hurt them personally.
57:25 - Yeah, the "Mobile MTX situation", because it's not like basically every full priced $70 game on consoles already also is filled to the brim with MTXs... Given the amount of older AAA-games I haven't played, I even before Game Pass, personally saw very little reason to pay full price at launch for a game with 100% of the bugs and 50% of the content, when the same game will be on sale for less than half the original price featuring only 10% of the bugs and 100% of the content (incl DLC/Expansions often named GOTY-Edition)
I like how Colin's whole argument about being against Game Pass had ZERO to do with the consumer & regular gamer...
It was all "but the financials" and "how do they make their money back?" and "people might think games are cheap" etc etc etc.... And?
Why should I, the person with limited disposable income, be concerned with the multi trillion dollar company's quarterly reports or how much money they want to dump into the service, especially if that money is going towards a service I benefit from? 🤔
I'm not a developer, nor am I shareholder. I'm just trying to enjoy my hobby & stretch those funds as much as I can. MS is giving me a way to do that. And if developers don't like it, they won't put their games on it. It's that simple.
And if it only loses money (which MS says it doesn't, but Collin apparently knows more), then the good times will end. Oh well, it was great while it lasted.
But until that point, I'm not going out & pretending it's a bad service for ME when it's only been a huge godsend. I only play on PC, with a tiny bit of Switch every now & then, and GP allows me to try games I'd otherwise never even consider buying.
If Colin is right, then in the long run, the lost revenue from the lack of a la carte sales will drive pubs to implement even more invasive monetization techniques on top of the ones that many gamers don't like already. If the financial model for placing AAA games on a subscription day 1 isn't healthy and stable on it's own, then the industry will be in a similar situation to film, and tv, where the big streamers are losing billions of dollars, and vaulting tons of content just for the tax breaks.
@cw-cw6nl But Colin also contradicts himself, as he said nobody puts their games on GP if they're confident in their sales.
So by his logic, all publishers that are already making good money off a la carte sales won't need to change their model with encroaching monetization because their games aren't on GP anyway.
They're not on GP, so they're not losing a la carte sales.
Also, let's not kid ourselves... encroaching monetization has been happening for the past 15 years anyway. DLC, day 1 expansion passes, loot boxes, MTX in full price games, raising game prices to $70, remasters/remakes of games less than 5 years old, live service battle pass models, etc....
Game Pass didn't create any of these things. And because these things have become so prevalent, GP's value is even better to consumers who can't afford to keep up with this absurd race to empty people's wallets.
He's *VERY* wrong about Playstation fans not wanting ANY buyouts & being against acquisitions/contraction in general.
If you spend any amount of time in PS circles on social media, they are constantly championing new buyouts. Just last night I saw a post from TCMF Games on Twitter calling for Sony to buyout Square Enix... it had 1,100+ likes & was being shared by a lot of PS fans.
This is EVERYWHERE. Square, Take Two, Capcom & even Ubisoft are all being floated around on their wishlists. And if you bring up "I thought we were AGAINST buyouts?" the response is "well if the competition does it, we need to do it too!"
But reading the responses, you can tell it's way beyond that. These people would love nothing more than Sony to announce a ton of buyouts... if only to flex on Xbox.
Wow a 1000 like dang that's massive....
@@Siboshi Is 10,000 cooler? Beats me. Should I go find more liked Tweets, or is the rest of my point still the same regardless?
“Sony is an inherently creative company”
Sony was an electronics company that used acquisitions to buy their way in to movies/music in the late 80s, and used their largesse to undercut Nintendo and Sega’s third party licensing fees in video games (to the benefit of consumers and third parties).
“Nintendo is who we should want consolidating”
Nintendo was an abusive monopolist in the late 80s and was forced to treat third party developers better after competing with Sega then Sony.
I feel like Colin’s history only starts with PS3.
Sony has been in the music business since 1968. Sony didn’t undercut Sega or Nintendo. Sega and Nintendo made less capable machines with the Saturn and the N64.
@@ltw126 They got big in the music industry via acquisition of CBS Records and ATV, and through merging with BMG. Nobody knew of Sony as a music company before then.
For PS1, they charged $7.50/game as royalty to the platform owner where Nintendo was charging $15/game. This was even before the cost savings from the new CD ROM technology. Undercutting the competition was part of their strategy to win.
Honestly, I wouldn't get upset if XBox bought Take2. I feel like it would be funny to watch guys like this absolutely lose their shit.
I see Colin and i click. Really dug the last bunch of content i've seen you on though. Im late but instant sub my friend
Shoutout Destin & Colin! Here from the Beyond years, and been a Sacred Symbols Patron from the beginning. Now, newly subbed to Destin’s channel. Happy to see you two hash it out in a respectable manner. 🙏🏽
I would love more podcast/discussions like this in the future
yes! But please more compressed / shorter!!
Yeah, and less Sony pony fan girls like ign has been clown. This interview is as awful. Destin do better with the people you select interview. It’s good to get people that aren’t pro Xbox. But at least someone that isn’t an obvious salty hater. Talks a million words a second and in the end this was an hour and half + of gibberish.
Yeah. Let’s get Destin on SS and do it twice as long. Love the long form conversations where both sides can breathe. Perfect listening for commuting.
Colin seems like one of those guys that spouts crazy theories from his basement. 😂
In terms of acquisitions, I’d much rather see a big company like Microsoft acquire a studio vs them going out of business and closing shop. Like the THQ and other gaming companies that closed up shop.
As Destin said, Activision wanted to be bought. We’ll have to see how everything goes… But from a gamer standpoint I feel Activision will do better under Microsoft.
He’s just your generic pony know it all. He’s basically Reforge Gaming. Certified 🤡
Terrible selection for a discussion.
Colin definitely doesn’t spew conspiracy theories, ever.
@@ShadyDBZ4aww, someone is upset they didn’t get a shill to talk to.
Colin’s reputation for fairness is pretty well known. Nothing he said isn’t true in practice. MS has been dominated for for the better part of two hardware generations in hardware and games revenue.
I love my Xbox, but this fanboy idea that its all ok is ridiculous. They failed to manage ~20 studios, and will now own double that. Nothing so far inspires confidence, and I desperately hope they change that over the next couple of years.
Jesus man, they released Redfall…. It was embarrassing to people like me who suggest Game pass to others
@@ShadyDBZ4”waaaaaah Colin doesn’t agree with me 😭 “
@@bozzwick Look at ign HAS BEEN nobody Colin creating burner accounts. Lmao! Sad. 🤡
Collin made some great and some less great points.
I think he is off when it comes to the economics of Gamepass. If Microsoft can grow subscription counts, it will be fine. Their ventures into mobile will help towords this goal for sure.
His argument about "natural Groth/acquisitions" on the other hand makes more sense I think. It creates a common sense inside the teams, a shared vision and better structure, which lead to better games.
That's why Xbox isn't trying to absorb all the teams into Xbox game studios, they want the publishers they buy to manage those studios for them, so that they don't have to take that burden.
I think both ways are valid.
Also his point about player behaviour changing isn't wrong. We all know how Netflix changed our view on shows, the same thing could happen to games, I don't know.
Great guest Destin! He kind of sounds like the guy who did all the video guides for Final Fantasy XIII at IGN.
It’s worrying reading comments on this interview that obviously haven’t understood what Colin has said. It’s just so strange to me people defending and having fights about a plastic box and a giant corporation…(both Sony and Microsoft)
It is sad, it's like people only want to hear what they want to her for Console warrior points. No one wants to be resonable or open.
Destin is an actual journalist who researches topics, interviews people. For the AbK acquisition he poured through legal filings and spoke to numerous experts.
Colin Moriarty is a troll who caters to the worst, most aggressive Sony fanboys and says vacuous things to get a rise out of people.
Yeah. Colin gave up journalism to be a fanboy. His credibility is gone.
Nope, but it’s okay to be wrong sometimes. Better luck next time Stephen.
Colin also does take his time and does research just like Destin. Also Colin doesn't cater to fanboys. I think anyone who watches any of LSM's content would realise that.
@@JoltinJoe I think it's such a shame that people are so quick to just and just make assumptions. I guess that was happens when people are blinded by tribalism.
@@JoltinJoe Very true.
It's great to see Colin and Destin get together. It's a shame we can't see more Xbox/PlayStation crossovers.
This is what we need, respectfuI debates instead of toxic consoIe wars.
@@F1BERFRENZY I don't know what politics has to do with videogames but nevermind. There's always one.
@@Donald_Allan The real sad thing is that that is seen as political. This society is lost and needs to go back to the basics.
No we don't keep those ponies in the pasture
@@elvangulley3210 Colin is not a fanboy.
1:03:23 I’m just gonna point out here that they were both wrong how they are calculated for how the business sees it, and how shareholders is the increase of monthly active users alone justifies the $70 billion purchase price. This is not only a game pass move. This is a platform expansion move to grab mine share that was lost during the Xbox one generation.
Truly one of my favorite video game interviews of all time. I enjoy both of your perspectives.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Of All Time? Lmao!! This must be the first interview you’ve ever since in your existence. 🤡
Great episode,
Nice to see people with differing, genuine good points of view that discuss like adults and listen to each other.
It’s a video games media revolution.
Viva la revolution
The guest’s comments that Microsoft should buy Embracer completely misses the mark, IMO. The console and PC game space is relatively stagnant, and Microsoft wants to invest in mobile. The reason they’re buying Activision is mostly due to mobile.
I cannot stand Colin’s PS takes!
I’ll give this a shot, but this might be the first long form Dustin I skip.
People forget that Sony did acquired Psygnosis in 1993 for the playstation.
@@JoltinJoe You are worng thay had other games like Ballistix,The Killing Game Show. and they were big on Amiga and other computers.
Just a correction. Psygnosis were acquired in 1993.
@@JoltinJoe No there IP were not dead Lemmings was put on everything in the beginning of the 90s. I am not saying Psygnosis is or was as big as ABK. Not even Bethesda was as big when MS bought them. I just saying Sony did acquired companies in the past, there not innocent either. One reason Sony did buy Psygnosis was for there 3d tools.
@@Donald_Allan thank you
Colins point at 6:15 is essentially EXACTLY WHY its a monopoly issue.
A factor that probably helped the PS3 take the lead towards the end of its lifestyle was because it was a cheap option as a Blu-ray player which had the advantage of also playing games.
I know a lot of people who I know personally that picked up a PS3 in the last year of its life after spending the entire generation on Xbox because they wanted a reasonably priced Blu-ray player as Blu-ray was starting to grow its library and they had the benefit of playing some PS3 games
35:30 - I suspect it is because people (myself included) realizes that ever since the launch of PS4/XBONE, PlayStation has been completely dominating Xbox to the point where Microsoft might abandon their Xbox business (like Zune and Windows Phone/Nokia), thereby entirely ceding the "High-Performance Console Market" to a Sony which has been "riding" the wallets of their "Sony Ponies" increasingly harder over the past 5+ years - "Pay has NO LIMITS!".
We subsequently understand that this deal "commits" Microsoft to the gaming business and all but ensures that Sony PlayStation will not be "The Only Game in Town" for gamers wanting high quality graphics without the hassles associated with Gaming-PCs. I doubt the reactions would have been equally positive if PlayStation and Xbox had been more Neck-to-Neck!
It also means that the gaming landscape is changing, and it's going to be more about the services than the hardware. It's a disruption of the industry, and disruption is sorely needed.
I never thought I would see the day that I didn't want to watch one of your videos. Today is that day.
Same
Same here. Trying to skim through it.
😬😬🤦♂️🤦♂️ I just can’t lol
Debating it, but I think ima just skip
embrace difference of opinion
Colin's source for everything: "Just trust me"
As if people before didn’t buy used games or trade the one bought
@@Richard-IkerdUsed games are a godsend. Anybody arguing otherwise is delusional, not to mention doesn't like saving money.
Colin's a toxic hack.
Usually works
@@AUTI5T1XI’m thankful that PlayStation gamers are still buying and reselling their physical games days/weeks after a new games launch
Colin just doesnt like business models that compete with Sony's big budget AAA franchises. Gamepass is good for consumers charging $70+ per game is unsustainable for the consumer.
Some how Colin finds a way to call Xbox exclusives bad without saying it. I think Xbox has a lot of quality games. I like PS5 also, but damn, there are people with different perspectives with what they like from games.
He only likes a certain type of game, it’s apparent when he dismissed starfield because it’s “too big.” He’s been catered to with Sonys cinematics third party action adventure games.
@@2robjenkinsno its obsession with plastic box. I literally saw many ponies brushing off racing genre until gt7 was announced. Then, I saw lamenting cause racing game does not win goty. They actually like racing game but pretended to hate the genre only because xbox is dominating racing genre. Very same thing happening with starfield. Ponies Were delightful, then started bashing after knowing its ms exclusive. Colin follows the same pattern. He will find a way to hate hellblade 2, just because its ms Ip. Even, though its a playstation type game.
I guarantee with 100% if PlayStation would have bought Activision he will be smiling
Yep. Dudes a PlayStation fanboy. Always shading Microsoft very chance he got. Dudes arrogant. Not sure why Destin thinks interviewing this ign has been was some epic get. 🙄
@@ShadyDBZ4 I 100% agree with you
No, he wouldn’t, he’s been speaking out against this stuff when Sony buys devs for over a decade. Just like he did when they bought Bungie.
Unlike you, he doesn’t shill for companies. His company refuses all gaming advertising and funding , and refuses to take free games and hardware from any company in the space. Frankly, he’s one of the only influencers with real morals.
@@Stonehornsure. I'd love to see this inside information your claiming to know 😂
@@praisethesun6078 inside info? Watch his damn show, it’s the biggest PS show out there. He was dead against Sony buying bungie. They refuse all game’s advertising and early copies, and have since they started. Those are facts.
Im sorry you’re ignorant?
Wonder if Colin thinks money hatting half the industry is good for sony culture 🤔
I couldn't get through the intro of this Colin fellow but the TLDR of his position basically seems to be "Because they are the SMALLEST console player, Xbox should not be allowed to acquire ABK to compete."
Sony is a creative company loooooooool i am dead by bias
@@kgrasss976Game Of The Year 😂😂😂😂
God of war, created under Sony.
Last of us, created under Sony.
Horizon, created under Sony.
They are. Cope.
@@bozzwick no they’re not. Cope harder
Destin absolutely took Colins famed "organic" argument about Xbox/Playstation out to dry. Long time coming on that. Good job Destin
Have followed Colin since his beginning, never really was a fan of Destin but this has made me one. Great conversation and video! Hope to see more of you two in the feature.
Only 25 min in but wanted to say great talk. More please!
Colin's *entire* argument about Game Pass being a "race to the bottom" akin to mobile games and micro transactions - is just absurd. You need only look to Apple Arcade to see an example of a mobile service much like Game Pass that has *ZERO* micro transactions and is a service that is very popular and works very well. The idea that Game Pass will inevitably lead to something like the micro transaction hellscape we see on mobile is silly given that all those $70 games you're buying today are still feeding you micro transactions. Subscription services literally allow these companies to count on a guaranteed income stream so they're less reliant on micro transactions. Colin has no idea what he's talking about and ignores every example that directly contradicts his incredibly uninformed opinions.
Colin is wrong, GamePass isn't teaching people to not buy games, $70 games is teaching people to not buy games...
And how someone so "knowledgeable" about the economics of the industry can seem to forget numerous publishers including Sony have come out saying AAA as is, is unsustainable and high risk.
Bungie was not necessarily a stupid buy for Sony. Sony purchased them for Games as Service. A revenue stream. Similar to why Microsoft bought Mojang. Bungie will bring in a constant flow of money along with other incentives like the studios assets and very important... experience in FPS development.
It was a smart buy, but Sony implemented them horribly. It's smart for them to have Bungie oversee live service games, but it was stupid to have live service games live and die on Bungie's authority; that's nuts.