Inside the Chieftain's Hatch: CATI
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2024
- The last of our major videos from the series filmed in Belgium, we finish with an upgrade of a WW2 -design carrier with a 90mm low pressure MECAR gun. This vehicle found in the Royal Military Museum in Brussels.
This is the first batch of filming where I have invested in bringing along a cameraman/editor, goes by FixItInPost, and as you can imagine, he doesn't work for free. Any financial support you can throw in below would be greatly appreciated. This was a test case to see if it's economically viable.
Belgian Linkies:
warheritage.be/en
belgiumbattlefield.be/
Facebook: / thechieftainarmor
Twitter...erm.. X: / chieftain_armor
Instagram: / chieftain_moran
And TikTok (Not that there's much on it yet) / the_chieftains_hatch
Financial donations:
Patreon: / the_chieftain
Direct Paypal: paypal.me/thechieftainshat
Or just use the RUclips Thanks feature.
Merchandise (The carousel below seems dodgy)
the-chieftains-retail-hatch.c...
shoutout to pigeon at 2:36
I was just about to make this comment myself.
So Carrier Pigeons aren't extinct?!
@@Cemi_Mhikku no, the pidgeon is actually part of the exhibition, from the flanders WW1 part.. it is called "speckled jim"
Bird wants a museum tour!
Pigeon waddle is adorable 😻
The tracks came in 21 link service lengths for all types of carrier, you installed enough full lengths and then the last section would be shortened to whatever the specific version of carrier required. I’ve had to remove a few as my Loyd track bedded in, just grind the riveted head off and knock out the pin and remove as many links as you need to regain tension. From the factory the vehicle had a full uninterrupted 187 links with one linking pin, once that wore out you were on to the 21 link service sections as mentioned. Here is my Loyd driving the other week: ruclips.net/video/mmrAVdytSKs/видео.htmlsi=k8xDvL75kp3lU_CX
The vehicle is alive, and is commenting on RUclips!
So cool. I see you got yours from Belgium and that it was an ammo carrier for the 90mm armed CATI. Makes sense these were paired up. The Chieftain didn't mention the ammo capacity of the 90mm CATI. How many rounds did your carrier hold?
@@donjones4719 in its ww2 6Pdr towing configuration it carried 12 boxes of 6Pdr ammo. That’s 72rounds.
I wonder if the varying segment links were just because they were cannibalized wear sections.
@@loydcarrier2197 That's a lot of ammo!
I find it amusing that is under the wing of a CF-100 Canuck. and that a pigeon walked by around the 2min mark
2:40
belgium had 54 of those CF 100's, the only export of that plane.
The pigeon nailed it🤣
I wonder; did that pigeon pay admission?
@@jona.scholt4362no, it was paid an appearance fee though
As a belgian i'm very proud to see that even back then, we had no idea what we were doing or developing, just like the modern days 😂
Its badass
as a fellow Belgian, this feels like a Jupiler fueled idea someone tried and then somehow made it into production.
@@Painrunner More like Carapils 😂
We can see a theme developing in the replies that might elucidate upon the listless state of Belgium
But I thought having a nation made up off multiple different cultures and languages thrown together into arbitrary borders and told "you're a nation now" was a great recipe for success, and life was all bountiful and peaceful in Belgium and everything worked fine always?
@02:36 The Chieftain makes the vehicle tour so interesting that even the pigeons turns up to have a listen. :)
Just a cameo, no lines today...lol
Looking forward to the Chieftan's new aircraft shorts series; "it's a Canuck CF-100, it flies. Fin."
That particular model of CF-100 featured the same sort of weaponry as the American F-89D Scorpion, Oops all Rockets
Rex's Hanger is deeply alarmed over facing stiff competition.
As a Canadian myself, I find it amusing that we called called the Avro CF-100 the Canuck. It’s akin to the US having an aircraft called the Yank.
@@admiralbeez8143 The CF-100's niickname was the "Clunk" allegedly either a contraction of "Canuck" or the noise made by the nose gear locking up. Kinda reminiscient of the nickname "Thud" applied to the US F-105 Thunderchief. The Scorpion didn't have a generally agreed on nickname, although I have heard it called the Scrap Iron, mostly by people who had to struggle with it's avionics.
The thing I like most about listening to The Chieftain, besides his knowledge and sense of humor/charm.
Is his humility/lack of ego - he freely admits when he is/could be wrong.
Refreshing.
☮
How much glascannon do you want? Belguim: yes.
Considering ones who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones should a glass tank not shoot rounds? Lol
Belgium: Hold my ridiculously strong beer
Hahaha its funny because you can apply that repetitive joke to almost any situation
Yes
Hahaha
@@Pyjamarama11 jokes?
:Yes
France put 75mm on mopeds with a two stroke. So I guess give them the life time achievement award.
It also just straight up had civilian shopping baskets to carry fuel cans. $500 and freely supplied war goods goes straigh to the brain I guess
The 90mm gun must really rock that Lloyd carrier when fired
I imagine it's with the aircraft for a reason
Not really. It only fired a 2 28 kg HE or HEAT-FS at a velocity of 633 meter/second.
m.ruclips.net/user/shortsdeVJqBZ5SYU
The fact that the Canuck is sitting on 2 foot of wood blocks might help you walk under it.
I certainly wouldn't wanna fight in that thing, but it at least seems like a nice vehicle to serve in. Small, reasonably comfortable, and simple to maintain and repair, I bet it was a dream during peacetime.
Would you prefer a towed gun that you have to hook up to a tractor to move when they start shooting at you? Or an armored vehicle that is expected to move up into the thick of the fighting and be the most conspicuous target on the battlefield? Or just a guy with a rifle who has to get in the front line and can only hide as best as you can for defense? This seems almost ideal to me. You roll up well behind the front, conceal as well as possible, and shoot and enemy positions that have nothing that can reach you to return fire. If someone figures out where you are and starts returns fire with something bigger (ideally that's not easy for them to do because you concealed yourself well), you just start the engine and leave and find a new spot. Barring lucky shots I would say you are better off than most of the other guys actually engaged in combat. If you are actually driving this into the open where they can shoot at you, you are doing it wrong. I've never heard of towed artillery, even AT guns, as being suicide assignments, although AT guns were pretty dangerous posts inherently, and most of the losses come from counter battery fire because it took so long to relocate. And assuming they operate anything like normal artillery, they would have also dug slit trenches and even revetments for protection before engaging the enemy, so if the fire came in too heavy to retreat, you all jump in your trench and will be okay unless you get a direct hit. Your vehicle might get hit, but good chance it won't, is the blast and fragmentation that is most dangerous. Towed guns usually survive much better than their crews, and they don't take enormous losses, even in direct fire roles. It's just artillery on tracks, it doesn't need armor just because it looks a bit like a tank. It isn't meant to do what a tank or even an assault gun does.
@@justforever96 Yes. Typically the infantry unit you are assigned to would direct you and the rest of the TD's in your battery to the positions they have selected. You would be supported by infantry and if on the defense probably a mine field as well.
Fill those storage bins with something like a blanket and you actually add measurably to the armored protection of the front of the Lloyd carrier.😅
Get a bunch of old flack vests and duct tape them in place LOL
The AVRO Canada CF-100 Canuck was a 1950s Canadian interceptor, broadly equivalent to the US Northrop F-89 Scorpion: subsonic, two crew, high endurance, radar in the nose. Armament in early versions was 8 x .50 cal machine-guns in a belly pack, later replaced by ever increasing numbers of 70mm unguided rockets in wingtip pods (unguided air-to-air rockets were all the rage in the 1950s before missiles started to work properly). The "Clunk" as it was nicknamed saw long service in the RCAF, but only achieved one export sale and that was to Belgium. An interceptor whose primary characteristic was it's long range was an odd choice for such a small country (their neighbours in the Netherlands used the much shorter-range Gloster Meteor NF.11, for instance). IIRC the Belgian "purchase" was actually part of some elaborate military aid maneuver in which the Americans paid for them but, for some reason I forget, they either couldn't supply US aircraft or had to do the Canadians a favour, or something like that.
Edited to change name to AVRO Canada.
IIRC, the CF-100 was also the first straight-wing jet (as opposed to straight-wing rocket aircraft) to break the sound barrier.
Interesting. I can see why the unguided rockets were popular. They're cheap, and give more punch than a solid projectile weapon. .50 cal are wonderful, but, making the other guy go boom is going to be preferable when they are shooting back.
TY- A CF 100 Canuck resides a few km away in my valley CFB museum piece. An in demand NATO night fighter, while day missions were the CF-104 starfighter with no radar , just balls an eyes, and speed...yes I still prefer armor..
@@RedXlV It was, although it did it in a dive from 45,000ft, not in in level flight or at low altittude..
@@Wastelandman7000 Yep, bringing down big, tough nuclear bombers (the Tu-4 B-29 clone was the 'reference' target). The trouble with the rockets was that they were wildly inaccurate, the most notorious exmaple being the 1956 "Battle of Palmdale" in which two F-89s fired over _two hundred_ rockets at an errant F-6F drone and didn't hit it once: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palmdale
The resemblance to the Alecto is impeccable!
A open top gun carrier with a 90mm out the front, can you top it, ngl want it in warthunder so my akecto can have a bröther
@@Rullstolsboken A big brother, even
The 25 pdr is an 84 mm, innit?
@@tomppeli. The one in game is using a 95mm although there was a variant with the 6 pounder, a prototype with the 25 pounder and the idea for one with the 32 pounder
@@Rullstolsboken I may or may not have spoken out of my hind end there, I suppose
@@tomppeli. Easy mistake tbh, similar size in calibres and I'm a bit into tanks such as the alecto, tetrach, M22 locust, l3/33, and stuff like that
Allons. My first gunnery I got to fire HEP from an M60A3, they looked like footballs flying out with such a slow muzzle velocity. This was especially true when viewed with night vision goggles, so I can imagine HE coming out of that thing. HEP was phased out after the early 80's.
What's an M603? Google's been less than useful
@@jaspergood2091 Sorry M60A3, I've since corrected it.Thanks
M60A3. Former US main battle tank used up through Vietnam. Now replaced by M1A1 and M1A2 Abram’s. Both very fine panzers.
@@RobertEHunt-dv9sq M60s weren't in Vietnam. M60A3TTS came to Europe 1979.
Brits still fire HESH from Challenger 2.
"It flies, whatever." True aviation aficionado. ;)
LOL well, to be fair, it is a tank channel not an aviation channel. World of Tanks needs to start a second channel with an aviator named The Saber or The Mig or something.
@@Wastelandman7000 should be The Sneaky and The Athlete, since in combat aviation most of the time people arguing about stealth vs super maneuverability
I gather he actually is an aircraft buff, he talks about it in some of his Q&A videos. That and trains. But this is an armor channel. Personally I don't think there is a real need to limit it to either, there is a lot of overlap. I know I like both.
Again, i'm pissed i've missed you in our city of Brussels !
But in the same time, so proud to see our great museums !
m.ruclips.net/user/shortsdeVJqBZ5SYU
How can it be an ITCH video without the loud music on loop!? 😢
No actually this is much better. Glad you are still making these, im always coming back to watch these, like old comfort food.
I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out, now everything feels wrong
The Ford engine is nice for collectors as parts are readily available (including hot rod parts of all sorts!).
The influence of Vickers Armstrong is truly global. From Japan to Belgium and South Africa to Sweden. From Canada to Brazil and Russia to the USA.
"Oi mate!" "Did you you go forgetting the Great Land Downunder, Australia???" 😮
Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺
@@markfryer9880 Sincere apologies my antipodean cousin. It was not intentional. This from someone who never misses celebrating ANZAC Day. Something started in the army (Sgt mess) and have never missed a year since. No people have proven to be more loyal allies.
When the anglosphere stand united. We are unstoppable.
I mean, small easy to hide under a bush, for infantry support it wasn't a dreadful idea for the time. Hide and wait, fire once or twice then drive like hell to somewhere else
With a 13 degree gun depression, all you would see is the gun over the ridgeline. Fire twice, watch the T-55 catch fire and then run...
"Shoot and scoot" is a valid tactic for a reason. Because no armored vehicle is invulnerable.
Funny how no one thinks anything about artillery pieces being unarmored, but the moment you put them on tracks suddenly people expect you to also armor them to they can slug it out with tanks. The tracks are only to give mobility. It doesn't need armor.
@@justforever96just enough to protect against 152 fragments and spall.
Lovely collection of aircraft there: F84, F5, F86, Mystere, JU52, Tansall, F1, Hunter, and that amazing looking C100 they parked the tank under! 🤩
Also could be a Hudson & a Viking further back but hard to tell.
Oh, the tracked thingy in the foreground was interesting as well 😆
Forgot the obvious F4 - you explaining track tension was too riveting
"To what country do you go if you want to see strange things? Well, actually, the answer to that is Japan but it's a bit far."
Chotto Matte. Now that's just mean.
It's only half way around the world. XD
ahem, that's "chotto matte" matey. And it's not necessarily TOO far; for instance at the moment it is down 4 meters from where I am sitting.
One of those, "Its better than nothing" vehicles. Always am fascinated with how smaller countries make do.
Especially Belgians. 😅
Must be an honourable avian dignitary visiting. A historic landmark between the Avian kingdom and Belgium.
Anyone fighting a towed AT gun during WW2 would have loved the little thing.
That really is an outstanding museum, for any North Americans thinking of going. Was there 2 years ago. Well worth it.
Sunday sermon with @The Chieftain
Preach 🙌🏼🙏🏼🙌🏼
amen
Oh, it just a long barrel 90mm on Loyd Carrier... wait, hold on a second!
P.S.: 2:36 :D
co-host
*_coo_* -host
Re the odd track links, if this is the only example left, then perhaps cobbled together any existing bits and pieces together just yo get it moving!
I was about to post the same thing. If t isn’t the original track or they bought it with tracks missing or not working then maybe they frankensteined something together with track sections they had to hand.
@@kemikade The Pigeon did try to get a word in....
Extremely glad to find this channel. Time to binge watch lol
Thanks for the video. I always look forward to these
I read about these and it is the first time I have seen one, so thank you for the share
I really enjoy learning about the different engineering ideas out there for suspensions. 🤠 Thanx for the info.
always love to see obscure vehicles 😊👍
at 1:20 man, that's helluva lot of tiny rifling grooves...I've never seen that many on any other tank gun before.
At the 2:26 mark .. a pigeon walks by at the bottom left of screen for a few seconds. He says Hi.
Love seeing the Avro Canada CF-100 Canuck interceptor. The Belgium air force was the sole foreign user of the Canuck.
A nice little machine although I wouldn't care to fight in one. Fun to drive around I'll bet.
One of my favourite places to visit when I’m in Brussels! My friend used to live just around the corner so very handy!
Another excellent video in the Chieftain's Collection of Obscurities (otherwise known as Belgium) series.
Hey, i was here just a few hours go. amazing place, worth the visit.
thank you
Quite interesting and informative. Thx.
I don't know why but i really like the smaller vehicles. They look like a lot of fun to drive (at least on the range)
always interesting and informative
Huh. I really like that. Simple, economical, easy to produce and easy to maintain, probably does the job!
When you were on your knees leaning forward looking into the sight, you were actually behind the gunner’s position
Looks like the same ford flathead V8 used in the CMP Ford Blitz trucks (F15, F30, F60). Remember them well, used to have one and rewired it when I was 12.
Thanks
The infantry can always disappear though, which is a benefit for sure. You can't get down on your face in an a vehicle. But you can fire from well outside the range of whatever they are shooting back at your guys, which i think is the idea with this vehicle. If they locate you and start laying down fire on your position you can leave in a hurry. Your alternatives are a totally unprotected towed gun, which seem to work okay, or a much more expensive and difficult armored vehicle. This is a self contained artillery tractor more than an AFV.
Was thinking the same thing. Just slap the damn thing on the towing vehicle and call it a day.
Reminds me of the British 'Harry Hopkins' Alecto that never progressed beyond trials.
Aha been and seen that! Loved it!
$50 says that Pidgeon follows the travel path better than 85.7% of guest visiting the Museum.
An even more crazy combination of gun and chassis than the Panhard AML90
‘To what country do you go if you want to see strange things?’ Britain! Of course.
Hopefully this gets added in WARNO.
Having been a U.S. 11B10 '80-'83, if there's on thing I appreciate is a smooth talking Irish used tank salesman.
Finally, a vehicle that can give the mighty Bob Semple stiff competition for the title of greatest AFV of all time.
cute little thing, somewhat reminds me of the Alecto I just smaller
5:20 More links would simply let it ride a bit higher, have more compliance, and have a steeper approach angle. Fewer would but the bogie springs under some tension, compressing them up and ruining your ride but giving you that cool low-slung look.
M 56 Scorpion had a non low pressure 90mm and that thing was crazy with recoil in the old videos.
I would think "shoot and scoot" on this would look like when he fired the 40mm at the sub in the movie 1941!
"Shoot and wait until everything stops moving".
LOL I have to wonder if a 40mm auto-cannon wouldn't work better in this vehicle for this purpose.
@@Wastelandman7000 40 mm does not the job since mid WW II.
For a modified troop carrier that thing just straight up is good looking.
2:35 pidgeonbomb
No, pigeon recon. The pigeon bombs came later. LOL
"4 Decimetre recoil stroke" sounds like a Jazz fusion band.
Different track length segments could be useful for setting the correct track tension, or adjusting for wear.
A most peculiar and curious vehicle
Nice video
It's definitely not my tankette, very cramped for the driver and the loader/co-driver or whatever you want to call him. But using the suspensions of the Bren Carrier was a pure stroke of genius in economics with an outdated system...
Good job 👍 👏
Makes the Pz38t Hetzer look like overkill. I do wonder the effect of firing a 90mm gun several times on the structural integrity of the little UC. But easy to tension those tracks, so extra good work, Belgium.
The clunk was the first all weather jet interceptor 😊
I want to see more of that CF-100 Canuck. Very underrated jets, definitely interesting and full of character. That and the Saab J/A 32 Lansen, which is similar. Maybe a generation newer.
And an F-84F? And is that a Albatros? 😮
Youhave been doing this for many years now, getting to see many old and new vehicles. I wonder what AFVs are still on your bucket list to want to see?
Easy. All the ones I haven't seen yet.
Since you're over on this side on the pond i really hope you get to visit Overloon in the Netherlands.
Overloon have a Cruiser Mk VIII Challenger, that would be an interesting walkaround
Is that a 6-pounder cannon mount that the Mecar gun is mounted on? I mean the Loyd Carrier was used to tow the 6-pdr, so it would make sense...
Small & large section of track for replacement & ordering maybe?
Well, they had to add length for the fourth wheel, maybe they just added some tread until they got to what they needed. Then the tension would come into play for those last few segments, along with vibration.
have enjoyed the series greatly sad to know it is at an end such is life, I am told.
Would the difference in pin numbers be a way to account for any imperfections in the building?
Co-driver was also the radio operator? Using a Motorola SCR-536 perhaps?
I like it and i want one for Christmas 🎄🎅 🎁
A Belgian Alecto? But like, lighter?
Reminds me a bit of the Alecto.
The gun looks like an enlarged 6pdr, from the recoil mech, breech and shoulder aiming.
I bet each Recoil was a joy for the crew
Good god the thing looks like a slightly more refined Saint-Chamond.
Just a wild guess on the track length difference, but perhaps the gun was slightly offset and thus would tear up / wear down / stretch out the tracks unevenly?
The real kicker is the F-16 in a museum. Kinda makes ya feel old.
1:43 under the differential...is that a puddle of oil?
Is this monstruosity still in running order?
2:35 🫡 Salute, Mr Pigeon
I wish they sold Loyd carrier kits. I'd love to build one in my garage. Might be handy on the farm. 🙂
Reminds me of the AMX-10M in a way
the belgian M56! When judging this very small and light vehicle,remember the eastrern border of belgium is the Ardennes, high hills and low mountains, steep slopes and forest everywhere. the germans proved it could be crossed by vehicles, but they better be small.....
We might be surprised at how effective an AT gun on a light carriage like that might be. Obviously the crew would rely on cover and concealment to stay alive on the battlefield, like the crew of a towed AT gun. But for an ambush mode, shoot-and-scoot approach, it's not terrible. Also, at that weight, it's air transportable, so could provide a basic AT capability for airborne.The point about infantry don't have much armor either is well taken and often forgotten.
I have seen tanks fireing, and proper tank "feels" recoil of its gun. It is a shock to 45t or more tons monster.
For this vehicule, i have feeling that first shot from that large cannon would rip those tracks and whole thing would accelerate backwards like rocket.
90mm towed guns do not have earth blade at back for nothing.
Obvisouly it didn’t .
@@alangordon3283 Obviusly, but life of that carrier was shortened. 90mm cannon would kick life out of it.
400mm of recoil stroke was not in its design for nothing.
It's not a bug. It's an automatic shoot and scoot feature.
Well, it is a low pressure gun. But, look at it this way, you'll slide out of your firing position so you have a head start evading the return fire LOL A high pressure gun would probably flip it end for end.
@@Wastelandman7000 😁 exactly.
Yay the CATI !!! Belgium's dip into complete insanity that kinda works if you squint hard enough !!!
You mean a jeep with a M40 recoilless 90mm would have been totally different?
@@2adamast According to people who did see it in action you best got out and stayed back, not so much because of the blast, but because the thing would rock so violently that the access doors might swing and hit you in the face. Shooting when sitting inside was not fun at all so a sensible crew tended to dismount run back in and drive away if necessary.
Does Chieftain fit underneath the wing because the plane is tall or because the plane is on top of blocks?
It's hideous. I love it!
I kind of wonder why we wouldn't have ammo stockpiled for some of these older weapons. What about Red Dawn? Are our kids going to have to fight them off with ceremonial shots? I think we should keep some 75mm Shrapnel rounds around just in case. 🤠 90mm is still a good gun!