The Case Against Billy Mitchell's Donkey Kong

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  • Опубликовано: 7 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 731

  • @omnigamer
    @omnigamer  6 лет назад +116

    I added an update and correction to the video description, based on comments and recent new information. Doesn't change the value of any of the presented material, just helped to provide extra clarity.

    • @MysteryStewpot
      @MysteryStewpot 6 лет назад +8

      Please for the love of God write a script. I don't need 2 and a half minutes of your life story before you actually talk about what I clicked the video for.

    • @Skyrilla
      @Skyrilla 6 лет назад +9

      Watch out, Billy Bitchell might sue you too.

    • @TheFr0z3nF0x
      @TheFr0z3nF0x 6 лет назад +1

      How about turning up you mic gain or speaking a bit louder. Your quieter than mouse fart in a hurricane.

    • @henkjoa8184
      @henkjoa8184 6 лет назад +1

      Great video man fuck Billy if you get off faking your scores thats facking pathetic

    • @AdamHoggatt
      @AdamHoggatt 6 лет назад +10

      @Officer Juicy - If only there was a way to skip forward!

  • @DwazeHoer
    @DwazeHoer 6 лет назад +762

    Jesus man. He didn't cheat, this wasn't an emulator. I'm sick of you people destroying everyone's reputations! See Billy is so good he found a way to start the cabinet in second gear.

    • @elli6220
      @elli6220 6 лет назад +181

      Thought you were a Billy fan till the last sentence, LOL

    • @taechuK
      @taechuK 6 лет назад +39

      Billy Rogers

    • @DwazeHoer
      @DwazeHoer 6 лет назад +15

      taechuK I tried imagining what that love child would look like. Now i have this image of a tiny 13 yr old 80's trope. Tiny molesters moustache with clumps of white powder constantly present just under the nostrils.

    • @skylar9046
      @skylar9046 6 лет назад +6

      Same as Elliot. That sentence is pretty good.

    • @dryboneskirby
      @dryboneskirby 6 лет назад +4

      life speed run 100% all collectibles (emulator)

  • @catandthesixxness
    @catandthesixxness 6 лет назад +89

    So basically MAME gave Billy Mitchell "the finger" and someone noticed after all these years.

  • @dlawlis
    @dlawlis 6 лет назад +314

    The most important lesson that I've learned from all of this is that I'm not the most immature 50 year old man out there. yay!

    • @ArtVandelayOfficial
      @ArtVandelayOfficial 5 лет назад +10

      hahahaha underrated comment

    • @bongosmcdongos4190
      @bongosmcdongos4190 4 года назад +2

      I'm your 100th like. I'm proud you hit this milestone!

    • @ShadowWizard123
      @ShadowWizard123 3 года назад +13

      Will Billy sue me if I point out his hair appears to be emulated too?

    • @ParkTheSnark
      @ParkTheSnark 3 года назад

      @@ShadowWizard123 it’s always epic when replies are better than the comment.

    • @j0nnyism
      @j0nnyism 3 года назад +1

      Yep I’m not a cheater at video games I’m just not very good at them

  • @computerkid1416
    @computerkid1416 4 года назад +63

    I watched King of Kong again last night, and it all makes sense now, especially how he refused to compete against Steve Weibe in person. I really felt for Steve in that documentary but I'm glad he has beaten Mitchell now (his score has been beaten now but he's still the first million point player).

    • @rexapis1737
      @rexapis1737 2 года назад

      @@billmitchell3266 Billy, there's only so many liberties the film makers can make before the word documentary becomes synonymous bullshit. Steve never broke your 1982 arcade record and you weren't the record holder at the time. You had a duty to correct the film makers and you didn't. Now your a laughing stock synonymous with cheating.

    • @fess3932
      @fess3932 Год назад

      @@billmitchell3266 Go home billy, your drunk and a cheat.

    • @nR00R
      @nR00R Год назад +2

      @@billmitchell3266 Someone is mad at the facts. Did you just ignore all of the actual proof in this video?

    • @nR00R
      @nR00R Год назад

      @@billmitchell3266 I have looked at the facts, and so has everyone else. It's been proven without a doubt that Mitchell is a worthless lying cheater

    • @nR00R
      @nR00R Год назад

      @@billymitchell7403 Why did Twin Galaxies rescind Mitchell's title? And Guinness is a notoriously shitty company that does not have any real integrity to speak of.

  • @mtbevins
    @mtbevins 6 лет назад +78

    I remembering watching the King of Kong when it came out and thought how slimy Twin Galaxies acted. The invalidation of the challenge after inspecting the board on Steve Wiebe's game. It was obvious to all not only was win Galaxies was unable to point to what was amiss with Wiebe's machine but that they were doing all they could to protect Billy Mitchell and his record. This story warms my heart :). Who would want to even bother with Twin Galaxies as their reputation is and has been to not play it straight.

    • @dalesfailssagaofasuslord783
      @dalesfailssagaofasuslord783 3 года назад +13

      @Vinnie Provolone the craziest part about that was the simple fact that they ignored Steve’s wife’s instructions to wait for Steve to get home and basically let themselves in when it was just the grandmother home. They’re lucky that Steve is such a nice guy and clearly not the confrontational type. A lot of men, including myself, would never let something like that go unpunished. They literally trespassed and took his machine apart. Unreal.

    • @YoursUntruly
      @YoursUntruly Год назад +1

      @@dalesfailssagaofasuslord783 he was being sarcastic. He definitely cheated LOL

    • @lasskinn474
      @lasskinn474 11 месяцев назад +1

      that was the craziest part with the whole thing. billy was part owner(basically it seems full financier) of TG at the time, yet they chose to portray the whole thing in a way of being an anti-advertisement for TG. all they had to do was to play fair or even nearly fair but no, instead decided to just piss in the bed.

    • @Shadowstar1311
      @Shadowstar1311 6 месяцев назад +2

      The new owners are working hard to restore the company's reputation, and they deserve acknowledgement for that. They're even helping Karl Jobst with his lawsuit by providing him with evidence. Nowadays, most gaming communities are self-governed which works a lot better. High scores and speedruns are adjudicated by other high ranking gamers in the community for that particular game or franchise.

  • @ShinoSarna
    @ShinoSarna 5 лет назад +77

    18:16 "Record was witnessed by two TG judges, including Todd Rodgers" - pack it up guys, witness of someone as trustworthy as Todd means the records must be legit

    • @ShinoSarna
      @ShinoSarna 5 лет назад +17

      @A D I was being sarcastic, Todd Rodgers is a well known record cheater himself.

    • @ShinoSarna
      @ShinoSarna 5 лет назад +2

      @A D Np! Here's a video on this topic: ruclips.net/video/8e-H4sEHB54/видео.html

    • @Nightenstaff
      @Nightenstaff 3 года назад +6

      Also, the second judge was Todd Rodger's girlfriend (at the time).

    • @ShadowWizard123
      @ShadowWizard123 3 года назад +3

      Spill a drink for the dozens of gamers whose world record in Drag Race went unrecognized for 30 years because of Todd. 😭

    • @ShinoSarna
      @ShinoSarna 3 года назад +3

      @@ShadowWizard123 The game is called Dragster. Drag Race is a TV show run by RuPaul :P

  • @BenG76Cards
    @BenG76Cards 6 лет назад +167

    When TG had referees I asked about submitting a score on the Time Pilot arcade machine I had at the time. It was having issues with the sound not working. Other wise it played fine. I later found it was just a loose wire. Anyhow. I was told the video could not be submitted for evidence since the sound was not working for the machine. Always been curious how he could get by with a really bad quality video with no sound.

    • @YusukeLover6969
      @YusukeLover6969 6 лет назад +21

      referees/judges are really inconsistant since their arnt any hard guidelines to me knowledge so its often up to the refs disgression

    • @anonony9081
      @anonony9081 6 лет назад +40

      Because Billy bankrolls TG so they don't care about the rules for him

    • @lpfan4491
      @lpfan4491 6 лет назад +1

      the human element of the rules,bois. it all makes sence

    • @electrictroy2010
      @electrictroy2010 5 лет назад +1

      TWO OTHER THINGS: a guy named Chris Ayer submitted a tape that magically jumps from level 7 to 255 in PAC-Man and TG validates it. Why? Because Chris is best friends with Billly Mitchell the scumbag. (2) one of the TG referees was arrested for molesting children. So he had bad character (obviously) and oh yes he happily validated Billy Mitchell’s scores without true verification
      TG is bad to the core
      .

    • @jnmwtkns
      @jnmwtkns 4 года назад

      @tan j maz I'm confused about your comment. if it's real and sincere then great .I cant tell if your serious or trying to portray sarcasm that no one can see. Good day

  • @Asterra2
    @Asterra2 6 лет назад +22

    Probably should have underscored two important pieces of information: 1) That the "finger" appears consistently and reliably in Billy's recordings (dozens of times), and 2) that true arcade hardware has its own hallmarks which likewise will never appear in MAME, such as the fact that the transition frame features _five_ incomplete girders, 100% reliably.
    Also the rotation issue with 1.04/1.05 is the fact that the footage was rotated 180 degrees, a result which no "direct feed" recording would ever produce, but which you _could_ accidentally get if you guessed wrong when telling MAME which direction to rotate the output for your bogus tape. As you note, this mistake was corrected with the 1.062M score.

    • @RetroGamesMas
      @RetroGamesMas 3 года назад

      And he show the entire world again on 2018 how he does the DK world record..he does it on live twitch tv in the arcade district..too bad those nerds wanna kill him because they don't fucking know the old arcade missing Memory after some points.

    • @Asterra2
      @Asterra2 3 года назад +6

      @@RetroGamesMas Getting a million points today, when everyone knows what strategies are needed to make it easy, is a completely different story from getting a million points back when almost nobody had done it. The real embarrassment here is that even after Billy Mitchell had the advantage of stealing Steve Weibe's new strategies, he still ultimately had to bust out MAME to secure the "world first million points in DK".

    • @dan7291able
      @dan7291able 3 года назад +1

      thanks for this

  • @savage1267
    @savage1267 6 лет назад +78

    I think there's something WRONG with me. I LOVE these videos exposing cheaters.

    • @rexapis2125
      @rexapis2125 6 лет назад +18

      savage1267
      Nah, it's human nature to want cheaters exposed..

    • @nahCmeR
      @nahCmeR 5 лет назад +4

      Nobody likes feeling cheated or exploited.

    • @Nodnarb69
      @Nodnarb69 Год назад

      @@nahCmeR I do

    • @humanbean3
      @humanbean3 22 дня назад

      justice. we want justice!

  • @catdespira2238
    @catdespira2238 6 лет назад +160

    Yeah, the stuff that was done to people in the past (including myself and former Ref Patrick Scott Patterson, Ref David Nelson, Dwayne Richard, and so many others) who challenged Mitchell's scores or any of the "Legacy Scores", or evenTwin Galaxies' opinions on history itself, were ostracized, harassed, threatened with legal action, and even stalked and had projects sabotaged to the point that the projects became unsalvagable and had to be abandoned. There is a very visible pattern of negative and ruinous behavior coming from Mitchell and old TG icons against people who stood up to them or who just wanted to record concise and correct history and/or scores and honestly meant no one harm. But the "iconic crowd" gets very agitated when someone starts asking questions because, frankly, they have a lot to hide. The figurative closet is packed with skeletons, smoking guns and quid pro quo arrangements.
    There's a video that shows Dwayne Richard being sabotaged by TG people at a showing of his 2012 documentary, the one that dared examine Mitchell's sketchy scores. Don't know if you've seen it but...prepare to be creeped out. Note Dwayne just stands there and takes it like he expected it. He'd seen them do this to others before, that's why. They adore publicly shaming and ostracizing people hence TGs hit piece on Apollo Legend that was full-on sanctioned by Mitchell's clique.
    ruclips.net/video/Z1VnkpX5W9Q/видео.html

    • @mitchellhorton9382
      @mitchellhorton9382 6 лет назад +3

      Too bad they suck at Twitter. And Facebook.
      The pic they used on that Facebook page is like a blown up thumbnail.

    • @gimacaca123456
      @gimacaca123456 6 лет назад +1

      Is this The King of Con you mentioned? ruclips.net/video/uHeMUSo4SDg/видео.html

    • @anthonylopez2896
      @anthonylopez2896 6 лет назад +4

      Holy shit....how deep does this rabbit hole go....

    • @catdespira2238
      @catdespira2238 6 лет назад +8

      Yes, I am the person who debunked that urban legend. I am also the person who was in the "War of the Worlds style" dramatic podcast with Ernie Cline, called The Polybius Conspiracy.

    • @lucabops4778
      @lucabops4778 6 лет назад +1

      Cat DeSpira is this Dwayne Richard documentary on RUclips?

  • @theupthere9989
    @theupthere9989 6 лет назад +38

    People seem to have no knowledge of how proof works. We have 100% PROOF that he used MAME we have NO proof that he actually did any of the scores. He is AT BEST a medum-skilled swindler, and a PROVEN 100% cheater. This is FACT and has nothing to do with "what people think". Of course his friends and employees will claim he didn't cheat but that DOES NOT MATTER, since he actually is a cheater and all his scores are fake.

    • @fuzzywzhe
      @fuzzywzhe 5 лет назад +4

      There's no doubt he was a decent player at one time, but we know he's cheated in the submission of at least one game. That alone makes him worthwhile to be entirely forgotten.

    • @HarryBalzak
      @HarryBalzak 4 года назад

      It doesn't make a difference how beautiful your guess is. It doesn't matter how smart who made the guess is, or what his name is. If it disagrees with experiment *it is wrong.*
      ruclips.net/video/LIxvQMhttq4/видео.html

  • @halley_in_stars
    @halley_in_stars 6 лет назад +6

    excellent job, this was really well presented. I saw the initial video on apollo's channel, and hadn't realized it had blown up so hard till this evening. So it's nice to see folks like yourself are already cataloging facts in a fair manner, rumor control and all that.

  • @in_vas_por8810
    @in_vas_por8810 6 лет назад +52

    The fact that Billy Mitchell has probably watched this video like 10 times is hilarious.

    • @tattletail9720
      @tattletail9720 6 лет назад +14

      Billy Finds it Offensive that you can only downvote a video once, he is putting pressure on youtube to allow unlimited Downvotes for himself.

    • @GDOsmium
      @GDOsmium 6 лет назад +2

      Tattle Tail he's gonna sue RUclips because of it

    • @ArtVandelayOfficial
      @ArtVandelayOfficial 5 лет назад +2

      I imagine him watching it over and over raging while his silicone tits wife consoles him rubbing his shoulders from behind

    • @kawaiimunism
      @kawaiimunism 2 года назад +5

      @@tattletail9720 I'm from the future, got bad news for Billy about the dislikes lol

  • @Hotrod6045
    @Hotrod6045 6 лет назад +15

    The board swap video started the dispute and was one of many pieces of evidence that led to this situation.
    The first video is something that cannot be reconciled.

    • @Hotrod6045
      @Hotrod6045 6 лет назад

      It was enough to start the dispute and get attention to it on TG. Wes Copeland said it showed the score wasn't done live.

  • @broken1394
    @broken1394 6 лет назад +13

    Amazing how a game released in 1981 can be the source of so much scandal.

    • @eriklarson9137
      @eriklarson9137 Год назад +1

      Right? Seriously odd people involved. And it's something pretty much no one on planet earth cares about.

  • @PatrickScottPatterson
    @PatrickScottPatterson 6 лет назад +145

    No allegations of him pressuring for it to be accepted. As one of the people he did it to, I’ll flat out confirm it. And no, we did not get to view the footage before voting, and actual call to take it came from then-owner Pete Bouvier rather than the voting results.

    • @andrewmcgiblets5784
      @andrewmcgiblets5784 6 лет назад +3

      Patrick Scott Patterson : I think I understand what you are saying..maybe? Are you saying video evidence of a high score is up to a vote in the end? No doubt in my mind Billy's a sheister but is there some sort of vote when a potential high score comes in that goes to the public?
      What did Billy do to "you". What are you actually talking about?

    • @Kosmicd12
      @Kosmicd12 6 лет назад +35

      He's saying Billy didn't 𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘨𝘪𝘥𝘭𝘺 pressure people into accepting his scores, he 𝘥𝘦𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘭𝘺 did. He is saying Billy did this to him personally.

    • @andrewmcgiblets5784
      @andrewmcgiblets5784 6 лет назад +4

      Kosmicd12 I think I kinda know what you are trying to say, but your verbage is very hard to understand.

    • @johnfakename1823
      @johnfakename1823 6 лет назад +13

      Andrew McGiblets he is confirming that Billy pressured him to have high scores accepted into twin galaxies. Nobody used confusing verbage, so you might just be a derp.

    • @andrewmcgiblets5784
      @andrewmcgiblets5784 6 лет назад +1

      John Fakename So he's a ref? Sorry I haven't yet googled OPs name to determine this, nor would I take a claim like that at face value. Even then, what's this voting shit about? There's some sorta vote that goes on at TG to authenticate a score?
      And kosmic's attempt at describing the situation didn't hit the mark.

  • @davidinvenio3094
    @davidinvenio3094 3 года назад +8

    Anyone still laughing at this almost 3 years later?
    Hard to believe anyone still thinks he didn't cheat but some do.

  • @XtheGreat
    @XtheGreat 4 года назад +17

    The sad thing is, he MIGHT be another case of someone who might be close to being the best, but wanted the accolades and cheated just enough to prove what he /should/ be capable of in his mind.
    Those scores might even be his legit scores but just in MAME.
    His dishonesty though, as well as his continual need to sue people for defamation and whatnot, make it hard to care even if he was almost that good.
    As we say in my group of friends: You ain't gotta lie to kick it homie.
    If he owned his BS he might still have recognized scores for MAME.

    • @iamanidiotbut5523
      @iamanidiotbut5523 4 года назад +3

      He’s a narcissistic dickhead

    • @XtheGreat
      @XtheGreat 4 года назад +2

      @@iamanidiotbut5523 yes, thank you tldr bot, for taking the poetry out of the response

    • @jacobruiz97
      @jacobruiz97 3 года назад

      That's precisely why he is one infinitesimally small step above Todd Rogers (who hasn't even touched half the games he claimed to have a world record on) in my books. Still a douche nonetheless.

    • @thefingthinkingemoji8053
      @thefingthinkingemoji8053 3 года назад +3

      >Those scores might even be his legit scores but just in MAME.
      It probably wasn't if you look at the evidence of the luck of the run at around 13 minutes into this video. Billy's run is the most luck-based score of all time, even beating runs that restarted the first level over and over until they have a good result. This is likely a result of splicing, he just played each level until he gets a really good pace and then saves and loads, and repeat. This would bias the RNG since you're only keeping good results and would have the effect of generating one o the most "lucky" runs of all time, which is what Billy had.

    • @Talking-Monkey
      @Talking-Monkey 3 года назад

      From what I remember in other videos speaking about him, people who have witnessed Billy play in public settings have stated that basically he was average or above average. And something about how he was nowhere near hitting his high score or even close to it almost the full weekends of the conventions or wherever it was. And it wasn't until the last day that he did semi well.
      Vet this to double check finer details and info. But I know I am close to what was said .

  • @jenncapili7777
    @jenncapili7777 4 года назад +7

    This is really well put. I see the effort behind all of this. Thank you!

  • @DodgyBrothersEngineering
    @DodgyBrothersEngineering 6 лет назад +4

    Why do so many Gen Y's on dismiss these classics as being not important. It's like it was before my time so it has no significance... This self importance gets right up my nose. No it isn't the latest and greatest, no they weren't the greatest games ever made, but they have a significant place in history. Just like the Model T Ford, it wasn't the first car by a long shot, and there was nothing particularly cutting edge about it, but it deserves its place in history because it represented a pivotal change in automotive thinking. Show a little respect to the games that made your current games possible.

    • @selenite1
      @selenite1 6 лет назад

      It leaks into other things as well. "I don't like or understand Thing so Thing must be irrelevant".

    • @DodgyBrothersEngineering
      @DodgyBrothersEngineering 6 лет назад

      Exactly.

    • @patsfan4life
      @patsfan4life 5 лет назад +1

      Actually DK Arcade is the greatest arcade game ever made, and it introduced legendary characters Mario, Donkey Kong, and the concept of jumping around on a platform I.e. ‘platforming’

    • @billyperry3059
      @billyperry3059 3 года назад

      Bring back flint knapping!

  • @jamesfancher7874
    @jamesfancher7874 6 лет назад +9

    This video helped me understand things i should have already known. It would have taken years before i would have realized many of the things that you have shown in this video, thank you.

  • @CoinOpTV
    @CoinOpTV 6 лет назад +20

    research for the King of Kong sequel?

  • @rhaeven
    @rhaeven 6 лет назад +43

    Thanks for working so hard on this stuff, and the Todd related stuff too. It's good to see the Old Boy's Club that is TG finally getting called out, and it's hilarious watching the cultlike behaviour of those who defend them no matter what.

    • @rexapis2125
      @rexapis2125 6 лет назад +5

      rhaeven
      Cultlike behaviour = _Dick Riders_ ..

    • @zacharymop
      @zacharymop 6 лет назад +9

      I think my favorite part is reading these old guard defending posts on the dispute threads. Always these massive horribly formatted walls of text with bizarre attempts at humor and sarcasm. Like if you're going to be a super-nerd, a guy above 40 who spends more than two hours a day involved in video games I'd expect you to present yourself really well online. It's a weird combination of alzheimers, long periods of zero socialization and being all over the spectrum.

  • @tehrackoon2021
    @tehrackoon2021 6 лет назад +5

    I don't really care at all about speed running, or record setting in games I just play them for fun, but god damn the Billy Mitchell's drama/scandal is so juicy. Good video btw.

  • @facerip356
    @facerip356 6 лет назад +8

    If you've been paying attention to this, I don't know how you could not believe that Billy is a cheater. Nothing he does seems genuine. Everything about him seems fake and designed with smoke and mirrors. His whole persona doesn't ring true. It's unsettling.
    Even without all these wonderful facts from the tireless efforts of so many, even without those facts and video proof, if someone were to just mention it to me in passing, I could easily believe it. There's something about him that disturbs me on a gut, instinctual level. I know all you people must see what I mean and feel it too.He's got the personality of a used car salesman.

    • @rexapis2125
      @rexapis2125 6 лет назад +3

      FaceRip
      I think the words you're looking for to describe him are: Slimeball Douchebag...

    • @RetroGamesMas
      @RetroGamesMas 3 года назад

      FUN FACT: he does this again on 2018 on live twitch tv..and show the world how he was really the original king of dk..fucking nerds who don't even know how the older machine works when they get off because of the memory losing after some points.

    • @dan7291able
      @dan7291able 3 года назад +2

      Its simple, Billy honest to god thinks he is the smartest man on the planet.
      One thing is absolutely true, he IS a very good donkey kong and pac man player, its not like he cant play video games at all
      BUT, the other thing is also very true and even more true, he also cheats to obtain the highest score, because it means that much to him, i understand it, i dont accept or condone it, but he absolutely cheats, theres just no doubt about that

    • @dan7291able
      @dan7291able 3 года назад

      @@RetroGamesMas give it up Billy

    • @RetroGamesMas
      @RetroGamesMas 3 года назад

      @@dan7291able lol

  • @5MadMovieMakers
    @5MadMovieMakers 5 лет назад +27

    I wonder if TG vs Billy Mitchell will go to court, crazy how it's still going a year later

    • @Rj-tz5kb
      @Rj-tz5kb 5 лет назад +3

      Get the popcorn, this is going to be fun

    • @thomastommy9864
      @thomastommy9864 4 года назад +2

      Well, guess he now got reinstated. :(

    • @BoboSupreme
      @BoboSupreme 4 года назад

      @@thomastommy9864 Billy did nothing you guys are just as bad as the people who get mad when an accused rapist is innocent xD

    • @chrisneto
      @chrisneto 4 года назад

      Did he :)

    • @dalesfailssagaofasuslord783
      @dalesfailssagaofasuslord783 3 года назад

      @@BoboSupreme what does that even mean? I sense sarcasm but not sure. Billy’s a total tool and a con.

  • @aboveaveragedadgaming1258
    @aboveaveragedadgaming1258 Год назад +4

    Billy's reputation has been MAMEd and destroyed 🤣

  • @fahriakalin5936
    @fahriakalin5936 6 лет назад +21

    billy mitchell is suing Apollo Legend for exposing the truth. If (and when) he loses his lawsuit Twin galaxies should be required to remove his previous scores from their records. Steve Wiebe may not hold the high score, but he rightfully deserves to be credited as the first player to break one million points in donkey kong.

    • @VickybabySJ
      @VickybabySJ 6 лет назад +2

      Spot on! Mitchell stripped of his fraudulent scores and banned from competitive gaming, Wiebe recognized as DK's first player to score 1M. What a great day, April 12th, 2018!

  • @jimmyfallon1890
    @jimmyfallon1890 6 лет назад +22

    Hahahahaha XD...
    All the hardcore 80's cheaters never took into account the advances in tech to finally catch them out.
    Serves them all right.
    Cheater culture fueled by ego brought down.

    • @rhetrochips9471
      @rhetrochips9471 4 года назад

      Absolutely!! I love how they're getting caught in ways they never expected and in some ways dont even understand. It's hilarious when they're presented with "not humanly possible" and they just dont give up

    • @RetroGamesMas
      @RetroGamesMas 3 года назад +1

      @@rhetrochips9471 fun fact... He does it on live twitch tv in the arcade district..and show the entire world that he is the original dk world champion. Check it on youtube 2018.

  • @johneygd
    @johneygd 6 лет назад +5

    Just imagine if the event was captured with a gameboycamera,then it would,ve beenreally really hard to analize the footage of frame transitions,and the high score ,hahaha

  • @irofldmylolsoff4920
    @irofldmylolsoff4920 6 лет назад +2

    I worked with Roy for years, funny guy. I had no idea when I worked with him that he was a former Missile Command world record holder, I found out all this many years later. Here's to you Mr. Awesome!

    • @robertraft
      @robertraft 3 года назад +2

      really? his obscene trans am wasnt a clue lol.
      thats an awesome story man.
      mr awesome rocks.

  • @ParodyAccount_
    @ParodyAccount_ 6 лет назад +21

    He is now removed from Twin Galaxies lmao

    • @nathanhamman418
      @nathanhamman418 5 лет назад

      @Vinnie Provolone He has packets of evidence, but he only needs 1 bit of evidence to fix it, he has to prove that an original donkey kong arcade cabinet can produce the same loading of a level that a mame cabinet can, which it can't. His evidence packets don't mean anything. They're just a waste of time.

    • @thomastommy9864
      @thomastommy9864 4 года назад

      He is now back on Twin Galaxies scoreboard, even though he will always be deemed a cheater.

  • @ryansretrotech
    @ryansretrotech 4 года назад +14

    This was well put together thank you. It is quite compelling evidence. Billy Mitchell is undoubtedly an excellent Pac-Man player and this seemingly avoidable controversy is a real shame IMO.

    • @foobarmaximus3506
      @foobarmaximus3506 2 года назад +4

      He was a good gamer. NOT the best. Not even close. THAT is the problem with Bitchell.

  • @DannyWilliamH
    @DannyWilliamH 6 лет назад +13

    He's like a dork supervillain. This guy is the easiest example to use in order to prove that people are generally weak and want someone to "follow" or lead them. Unwavering confidence alone will attract people that have none. Fact.
    A mullet-goon with Donkey Kong scores literally ruled over the activity with absolute impunity for 20+ years because bigger dorks wanted to be his minions. Watch King of Kong and you see it so clearly that it quickly becomes the real point of the documentary for me.
    A far more prescient example is the current political climate. Billy is exactly like a certain someone that uses narcissistic confidence to gather complete losers to his undying defense, no matter what lie they have to swallow or act they have to commit.
    Billy is *exatly* that on a smaller scale. It's merely comical when the stakes are fucking Donkey Kong scores 😅

  • @williamrosa5641
    @williamrosa5641 6 лет назад +16

    One funny point you got wrong -- but dont worry, it doesnt affect the legitamacy of your breakdown -- is that they didnt swap the dk jr board with another dk jr board, they swapped it with itself! Thats right, its almost like they wanted to get caught. Took out the dk jr board, put it down, then picked up the exact same board, put it in, and claimed that the board was swapped for a dk board.

    • @rexapis2125
      @rexapis2125 6 лет назад +2

      william rosa
      Ikr, how did they expect to get away with that, especially with the over-the-top acting included!!

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +16

      I had something to that effect written out in my presenter notes, but I tend to wing it when presenting, so it didn't quite make it into the soundtrack. Either way, you're right, doesn't change the end fact that some shenanigans were afoot!

  • @robthompson8285
    @robthompson8285 Год назад

    What pisses me off most of all is not just Billy being a cheat, but the added utter corruption of Twin Galaxies.

  • @reaper84
    @reaper84 3 года назад +5

    How anyone could believe for just one second that his achievements are legit, is beyond me.

    • @dan7291able
      @dan7291able 3 года назад +2

      100% , its not complicated, when theres smoke, there IS usually fire.

    • @davidlloyd1526
      @davidlloyd1526 Год назад

      I'm still not entirely sure why it matters if the record was on MAME or real hardware. I don't like Mitchell much though...

    • @reaper84
      @reaper84 Год назад

      @@davidlloyd1526 mame makes cheating easily possible, and the fact that he denies it, makes it all the more suspicious that he cheated.

    • @domenicogonzalez3167
      @domenicogonzalez3167 9 месяцев назад +1

      ​@davidlloyd1526 mame roms can be reprogrammed, so he could program levels into sequences he pre practices on and have them produce more score producing items. Billy's gameplay has been shown to have a highly unlikely number of blue barrels and hammers.

  • @Saber0003
    @Saber0003 6 лет назад +11

    Personally I think its pretty obvious he used MAME, and the only reason to lie about using it is because he used save states or something else to cheat his score.

    • @jboy55
      @jboy55 2 года назад +1

      I realize its been 4 years, but it occurs to me that the original cabinet joystick is a bit weird, one advantage of MAME is to use better joysticks etc. You could also mess with the ROM and make certain higher scoring events happen more frequently.

    • @medes5597
      @medes5597 Год назад

      ​@@jboy55the frequency of his scoring events has been analysed and is normal. You're probably right about save states though. It was always heavily rumoured.

  • @yachidan
    @yachidan 3 года назад +2

    The power of social media.
    I bet they didn’t account for back in 2007.

  • @paularized1
    @paularized1 3 года назад +3

    20:20 Of course it was staged. “I’m switching it out and putting in a Donkey King Jr board. And in goes the Donkey Kong Jr board. Now we have a Donkey Kong Jr board. Did I mention it’s Donkey Kong Jr in there now?” Better acting in The Room.

  • @RedArremer
    @RedArremer 6 лет назад +2

    I'm sure people have already mentioned this, but the previous versions of MAME going all the way back to at least 0.56 can also display the 'finger' on the 3-girder transitions. This can be done one of two ways. The most simple is activating cheats and setting CPU0 to 99%. The other way started in version 0.85 which is to enable cheats and set the refresh rate to 60.6Hz, which would later become the default rate in 0.116, which is why we see the finger show up by default in that version.

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +1

      Right, that information wasn't available when the video was made. I added it to the description when it came out. Thanks!

    • @RedArremer
      @RedArremer 6 лет назад

      Cool. One other correction you might want to add is that the 1.047 and 1.05 million recordings have been provided by TG in their entirety from Greg Erway's DVD copies. I downloaded the 1.047 video and did a census of the girder transitions. Now as you know, the tape was recorded at 30fps, and therefore misses half the frames of the 60fps output of the direct feed. As such, the footage randomly lands on either an 'odd' frame or 'even' frame. My census of the tape resulted in a count of 31 'finger' girders out of 58 total transitions in the video. The remaining 27 transitions fell on the next frame due to the 30fps frame rate. This is perfectly consistent with the ENTIRE recording having been taken from MAME gameplay, since logically you should expect to see about 50% 'finger' transitions appearing in such a long video.

  • @Kilroy_5150
    @Kilroy_5150 6 лет назад +3

    The Big BM carries himself like an arrogant douche-bag. In the past he's made great efforts to have TG not accept other player's scores by making accusations about rules/regulations. The guy has no sense of modesty and it's pretty apparent he's got something going on with TG to have them defend him like no other player they could/would have defended in the past. Had Michell carried himself with some class, grace, or simple respect...probably none of this would probably ever happened.

  • @hizo64HH
    @hizo64HH 2 года назад +1

    I legit worry about making any comments on Billy Mitchell because I do not want to get sued.

  • @seanmcclure
    @seanmcclure 4 года назад +2

    The fan boys defending this cheater are sad people. However, Billy is a nobody and his life has been. Living hell because of the internet. Still, he used deception to gain some notoriety and without his chest score he has nothing.

  • @juantouche1940
    @juantouche1940 6 лет назад +6

    The music is really distracting.

  • @Duke_Togo_G13
    @Duke_Togo_G13 6 лет назад +25

    Summary: Billy fuggin cheated.

    • @kutulukutu
      @kutulukutu 6 лет назад +2

      Duke Togo - Pitchokey666 You get a thumbs up just for Golgo 13.

    • @RetroGamesMas
      @RetroGamesMas 3 года назад

      he does it on 2018..He stays again as the king of donkey kong..and all the issues and millions dollars demand..crashed!..Uff this man goes insane because his life will be nuked..but this day he does it ORIGINALY...i don't know how much time he spent to do it in true!

  • @exalented
    @exalented 6 лет назад +1

    Simple:
    1. When were Billy's scores 'recorded'
    2. When were Todd's falsified scores recorded.
    If Todd's cheated before the recording date then it's likely that in the TG rules there's something that invalidates his ref status at the time thus making Billy's submissions invalid.

    • @rexapis2125
      @rexapis2125 6 лет назад

      xXx_quackSc0porM90_xXx
      TG , like the police, always cover their backs and 'look after their own', so they would make some excuse and cover it up..

  • @dieselchevette
    @dieselchevette 6 лет назад +12

    If someone honestly thinks an RGB capture device inline with the original cabinet output is going to alter the frames doesn't understand how any of those electronics work. What a putz he is.

  • @scottsnyder4004
    @scottsnyder4004 6 лет назад +3

    great video. after watching him play more games than anyone else at kong off 6, i have high doubts he's gotten those million point games. 9 years ago, i'd doubt it even more before the new crop of players have advanced point pressing. i'd almost call his 800k score this weekend, a bit lucky, to be honest.

    • @rexapis2125
      @rexapis2125 6 лет назад

      Scott Snyder
      Yeah, he doesn't have the skill to get a million points or more, that's why he cheated..

  • @RickyPro888
    @RickyPro888 6 лет назад +3

    This was a really well done, informative video. I would love to see more like it! Thanks man

  • @aro7889
    @aro7889 6 лет назад +6

    You really need to turn up the volume, I have to crank my speakers way too high to hear you talk.

    • @Muncles
      @Muncles 4 года назад

      Ive got the same problem. Watching on a phone, volume on max

  • @freeaudiobooks7469
    @freeaudiobooks7469 6 лет назад +6

    Did He start in 2nd gear?

  • @rockme2145
    @rockme2145 5 лет назад +2

    Thanks for this!! Awesome job summarizing the situation!! :-)

  • @DeanWThomas
    @DeanWThomas 6 лет назад +1

    I don't understand why this took so many years to uncover.

  • @kirbymastah
    @kirbymastah 6 лет назад +11

    Wait, videos like this are supposed to have disclaimers about credit? I never knew!

    • @mitchellhorton9382
      @mitchellhorton9382 6 лет назад +11

      That's the slander TG is spreading about Apollo right now on their site.
      Omni wants to cut that off at the pass.

    • @snbeast9545
      @snbeast9545 6 лет назад +2

      Yep. The Twin Galaxies article announcing Billy Mitchell's suit against Apollo Legend attacked Apollo due to the fact that he did none of the research against Mitchell or Todd Rodgers. So Omnigamer pretty much had to put that disclaimer there to eliminate that excuse.
      Which makes me wonder what they're going to come up with to attack Omnigamer.

  • @sadizz455
    @sadizz455 6 лет назад +3

    If his claim is that they aren't his tapes, then the scores should be removed anyways?

    • @treterrr
      @treterrr 5 лет назад +1

      billys claiming he got those scores, but the person getting the score in the tapes isnt his game

  • @PlumbDrumb
    @PlumbDrumb 6 лет назад +7

    I don't need to sift through and endure biased, emotional outrage from other videos to garner some facts about this.
    They are all here and well formatted.
    Clear and concise, thank you.

  • @MewCast1
    @MewCast1 5 лет назад +4

    Billy also said the swap was staged

  • @sqrlmonger
    @sqrlmonger 6 лет назад +1

    I just have a couple of notes:
    15:18 - I disagree that splicing the audio given the setup Mr Mitchell is claiming is "difficult". Essentially all you need to do is spend another $3 (www.adafruit.com/product/1495) to buy cold splice with silicone to keep air out and bam you just have to insert and set your wires and the splicing is done and looks excellent. With parts in hand this is a 5-10 min job that any laymen could accomplish with a guide from the internet, with experienced techs this should have been a cinch. Also note, the stated reason by Mr Mitchell for this direct feed setup was to go above and beyond the requirements to prove the legitimacy of his recordings.
    19:00 - You will have to confirm with them directly, but I have seen multiple people involved claim that they were not allowed to view the performance before the vote. I don't know much more about it than this, and to my knowledge no reason or explanation has ever really been given for the way this was handled.
    20:30 - One of the things you didn't cover well was the original claim from earlier in your video that the score was witnessed by a crowd. The veracity of the swap video becomes important because it shows essentially nobody paying any attention to the goings on. I'm not sure what is worse for Mr Mitchell at this point, the video being legit or staged. Either results in some inescapable negative conclusions.
    27:00 - Another issue with this first "Myth" is that the understanding of how to score 1.2m+ is now publicly available for study where as it was not at the time of the disputed performances. While these techniques are very different from what Mr Mitchell was doing in the disputed performances, if he were to perform scores live now he could use these new techniques learned from current high score performances to give himself an edge to reach those scores. I think it's fair to point out that these newer techniques are quite a bit more difficult but I suspect if Mr Mitchell were to attempt scores publicly and he simply maintained a 1.2m pace for the first 6-8 levels or so before dying that this, for many people, would be proof enough that it was "only a matter of time", etc...
    The bottom line is that no performance now or in the future can change the truth of whether the submitted scores were fraudulent or not.
    0:00 - I agree with others that your intro is perhaps too long =P
    PS - I think you actually accomplished your stated goal of summarizing the dispute thread to a large degree. The only thing missing is perhaps a bit of an understanding of the petty an fractured nature of this subculture and the sheer amount of infighting that occurs between groups. It is one of the things I was most surprised about when reading through it myself. But perhaps my assumptions about how these people would/should treat each other were naive. Nevertheless, this is the best summary of the situation that I am aware of to date.

    • @RedArremer
      @RedArremer 6 лет назад

      Yeah getting audio from the arcade isn't difficult at all, especially when you have a hired tech supposedly setting everything up for you. They would easily both know and be able to simply tap into the audio feed line.

  • @istruggle4views799
    @istruggle4views799 6 лет назад +3

    This "finger" evidence is hard to argue. 9:15

  • @misturfixit45
    @misturfixit45 2 года назад

    17:28 "The 1.04 and 1.05 were rotated right-side up so that they could be shown on a TV that didn't have to be turned on its side" this is seemingly contradicted by King of Kong where we see the 1.04M score played on a TV at funspot and the TV is sideways. Not sure where the confusion lies but maybe that's based on a different tape.

  • @justin2308
    @justin2308 3 года назад +1

    I feel like game design courses should use this video among possible others in a segment on potential cheating, at least to help create awareness. I say this because things like speedrunning and unorthodox ways of playing (looking at you, Let’s Game It Out) have become more popular and a way for players and game developers to truly see a game’s limits and loopholes in practice. Cheaters tend to make everyone look bad.

  • @Frysacidtest
    @Frysacidtest 6 лет назад

    It's never difficult to capture audio off of a game. Hook up jumper leads to the terminals on the speaker, use a potentiometer to lower the voltage if necessary, and record.

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +2

      I don't disagree with that assessment, but what I state in the video is simply what was claimed in the thread.

    • @Frysacidtest
      @Frysacidtest 6 лет назад

      I understand, I was debunking their assertion. I agree with you, but I thought I'd mention an explanation for why it wouldn't be difficult.

  • @rexapis2125
    @rexapis2125 6 лет назад +5

    Billy = Busted

  • @skeeveskeeve
    @skeeveskeeve 3 года назад

    "It's not my video but it looks like that because of the video capture equipment we used when we made the video, the video that's not mine"

  • @caulfield78
    @caulfield78 6 лет назад +1

    Excellent presentation and balanced reporting. Thank you for this.

  • @ataridc
    @ataridc 6 лет назад +6

    Just goes to show how often it turns out that who you know is more important than what you know. People have covered up for these cheaters for decades.

    • @lasskinn474
      @lasskinn474 11 месяцев назад

      who you pay. billy financed tg at the time. day was unwilling to share financials with anyone too, not even people he wanted to put on the llc, which is super weird.

  • @erictroxell715
    @erictroxell715 3 года назад +1

    I had my expert buddy watch this. He thinks and agrees about your point #3 I believe. He said you could definitely redo over n over a level to either perfect the run or max the score for that level. Well done video sir!!!

  • @billybadgers9781
    @billybadgers9781 4 года назад +1

    search for Twin Galaxies: The legend of Walter day

  • @apointtomake1517
    @apointtomake1517 3 года назад +1

    Just shows how much of a mickey mouse organization TG was by accepting gameplay video that does not have audio.

  • @dorbie
    @dorbie 5 лет назад

    The lack of interlacing is beyond merely suspiscious. It would have taken advanced deinterlacing and synchronization to do that and do it well in that timeframe. But when it comes to fast character motion in a video game to do it from interlaced to deinterlaced and avoid comb artifacts even if you do deinterlace is a significant challenge beyond available affordable hardware of the era (and of course requires direct video feed). The machine literally cannot produce the pixels that Billy presented, but MAME can :-/

  • @TheRealJaceHall
    @TheRealJaceHall 6 лет назад +31

    Despite some very minor errors and omissions, which is natural when trying to present over 180 pages of dispute conversation in a short video, this is a very helpful summary video for those trying to understand the basics of this dispute. Huge compliments to Omnigamer for taking the time to do this.
    For the people who watch the video and wonder why the matter isn't a quick open-and-shut case based on what is presented, I will provide some insight as to why the TG investigation has taken and MUST take some time:
    1 - The assertion that the "finger-girder" (which seems to be the biggest smoking gun) can not be produced by an original DK arcade machine must be thoroughly examined and tested. If you are sitting there thinking that an original DK arcade machine cant do it no matter what, you are likely only thinking that because thats what you heard, not because you personally took an original Donkey Kong Arcade machine and tested it numerous ways yourself. Jeremy Young, the dispute claimant, did not provide any exhaustive evidence for TG to examine on this assertion. In fact, no one had (Chris Gleed has been of great help in the current pursuit.) Since it is such a key element, TG has to do the actual work and MAKE SURE that this critical assertion is valid and look at every reasonable scenario that could produce a result. This takes time.
    2 - TG can not rely on youtube videos of alleged Billy's performances as its primary source of reference. Billy did not upload these performances. Aside from the possibility of Billy claiming that they are not his actual performances, the very nature of their digital encoding and upload into youtube allows for subjective wiggle-room to creep into contesting any final decision that the new TG makes. Getting the actual tapes, and verifying that they match what Jeremy Young presented and are unaltered and valid copies of Billy's performances, takes time. TG has the tapes now and has been going through them.
    3 - It is because of the TG investigation, that we have been able to bring to light the exact claimed capture method of Billy's performances. That method starts with a TWO-BIT conversion board. TG needed to get that to verify and test with it to further examine point #1. This takes time. Incidentally, this was the way TG has 100% confirmed that Billy's tapes were not recorded direct from Original DK Arcade machine to VHS recorder. Billy's footage definitely was output to VHS by something that processed the TWO-BIT converter output.
    4 - etc. etc.
    The point is that it is very easy to rush to a conclusion based on initial assertions that seem "obvious" but are not actually fully vetted, and it is fine for everyone to do that EXCEPT TG. TG has to be the one place that goes through the painstaking detail to MAKE SURE. TG's decision has to withstand ongoing scrutiny, potential lawsuits, you name it. TG has to always be able to show that it looked at everything it reasonably could and gathered as much information as possible before coming to a conclusion - and what ever conclusion it comes to is entirely supported by the presented evidence.
    So this process has been very much about verifying the assertions made by this dispute and making sure that the assumptions being made are not in error. It takes time to do this, but TG is reaching a conclusion within the next 10 days.

    • @bladechild2449
      @bladechild2449 6 лет назад +18

      Buddy, it seems pretty evident from TG's actions, especially with that ridiculous article, that TG have already decided which way it's gonna go. If they were really this neutral party that is merely a referee, this "lawsuit" wouldn't be happening. But of course we all know what's going on. You're not interested in "investigating".
      It's as if you need a frickin spreadsheet done by NASA (or Omnigamer) to basically make it with these dinosaurs, hanging on to any remote relevance they have anymore. The deniability of all this evidence is just laughable. Incidentally, it seems more like TG is trying its hardest to find some way of making #3 work, by whatever method possible. That's what's taking its time.

    • @GoulartGH
      @GoulartGH 6 лет назад +4

      BladeChild: i just wanted to quote this from the article:
      (Editors’ Note: Twin Galaxies Editorial and the Adjudication Team are completely separate entities under the same website. Although the Editorial Team investigates on their own, the decisions made on disputes lie entirely on the Adjudication Team and is not influenced by Editorial. We seriously have no say either way and just find stories we find interesting and relevant.)
      although Jace is still at fault for letting such a biased, poorly-written article be published (and ruin his website's reputation even more), this doesn't mean that the actual adjudication team aren't unbiased. of course, it's still possible that they have some sort of bias, but i'm optimistic; after all, if TG didn't want to get rid of cheated scores, they wouldn't have created the dispute system in the first place.

    • @Hotrod6045
      @Hotrod6045 6 лет назад +1

      Editorial threw Adjudication under the bus
      However, I bet Jace is railing on Editorial for the piece

    • @bladechild2449
      @bladechild2449 6 лет назад +3

      GoulartGH The notion that both exist without joint cooperation to some degree seems like a fallacy to me. If editorial did release that without adjudication's authorization (or indeed, knowledge) then it surely would be taken down, as the article is quite clearly unacceptable. Regardless of whether they're two entities, the article represents TG's stance; that stance is they're taking Apollo Legend to court. (Or certain other parties are. Regardless, the article indicates total support of such action)
      With that understanding, it's not hard to see where this all going.

    • @GoulartGH
      @GoulartGH 6 лет назад +1

      i agree with you to some extent, but then again, the same thing happened during Todd Rodgers' dispute; articles biased towards Todd were published, but ultimately he ended up being banned from the website by the adjudication team. granted there was a lot of pressure from the community, but it isn't too different on this case.
      one thing to clarify, though: TG is NOT the one suing apollo legends; billy mitchell is.

  • @jonopens
    @jonopens 6 лет назад

    What about the recent claim of the impossibility due to the MAME version with the finger not existing yet? There was some kind of TG & Billy Mitchell press conference where that versioning issue was brought up - I saw via George Riley's channel.

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +3

      Hello Jonathan, I addressed that in the edits. Basically, every version of MAME going back to even 2001 produces the finger when you adjust the video refresh rate to more closely match the original hardware timing. In fact, this is likely the reason the finger shows up at all in MAME .116 and up - that was the first time the MAME developers updated the default refresh rate when playing DK. Alternatively, it also shows up when processing speed is adjusted to 99%, which MAME would do automatically in some cases. Either way, the argument that the earlier versions couldn't have produced it do not hold up.

    • @jonopens
      @jonopens 6 лет назад +2

      Sorry Omni! I must have missed that. Appreciate the clarification.

  • @raypeila
    @raypeila 2 года назад +1

    Billy is an amazing player regardless. That was MAME all day however. 🤷 It's very obvious. Not knocking MAME , I have a couple myself but I don't use them to cheat nor am I submitting any scores.

  • @thomastommy9864
    @thomastommy9864 4 года назад +1

    Myth: Billy's hair helps him get higher scores.

  • @MrDazzlerdarren
    @MrDazzlerdarren 6 лет назад +1

    What if he thought he was playing real cabinets but the arcade owners; trying to save money, were making out is was real when it was a MAME emulator inside a real cabinets?

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +2

      If he had been unknowingly playing on a MAME cabinet masquerading as real hardware, this would have absolutely been discovered over the course of hooking up the alleged capture components. Even without that, MAME had numerous notable audio differences that a keen player would have picked up on immediately.

    • @MrDazzlerdarren
      @MrDazzlerdarren 6 лет назад +3

      Hey, I ain't defending the guy; just trying to look at things from another direction.

  • @sydtopia1
    @sydtopia1 Год назад

    Nice video BTW that. It is good to see someone just present the evidence not stamp what they think happened on top of everything.
    12:54 Not sure how they came to the conclusion he would have had to have a lot of luck, when the top score got 200,000 points more, but Billy only got 6000 more in smashing barrels. In order to get the high score and the barrels to be close he would have to finish the levels fast and got more stuff during the level. The maths don't make sense when you think about it.

  • @spearfisherman308
    @spearfisherman308 3 года назад

    For the last mame comparison Billy's screen looks like a computer screen and not an arcade cabinet you can tell by the edge.

  • @cellardoor7500
    @cellardoor7500 6 лет назад +2

    Amazing. Great coverage of the facts.

  • @MafFilms
    @MafFilms 6 лет назад

    We need to get roy shildt involved. His best line talking about billy mitchell "Everytime mitchell opens up his checkbook their(twin galaxies) legs start to tremble." LOLOL omg

    • @rexapis2125
      @rexapis2125 6 лет назад

      MafFilms
      That dude is pretty crazy, but has been right about Mitchell the whole time..

  • @HoushouRattengod
    @HoushouRattengod 6 лет назад +4

    I may be wrong about this, but...
    Concerning the Allegations of Splicing.
    As I understood it. It was not a Video Splice, but an Audio Splice. That if you went through the Audio of the videos you would find very obvious spots in which the audio appears to be spliced. Which ALLUDES to the idea that the video was spliced together.... as if a Saved State was reloaded multiple times to get "The Perfect Run". Then they kept the best run.
    I don't know, and am not a technician. I don't know if the "splice spot" was just transition between levels or not.
    But I do believe that was where the allegations came from.

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +5

      None of the original direct feed videos have audio, so I don't know why you'd be looking to the audio for such things. The consensus is that the "splice" discrepancies you are thinking of were in fact just a poor attempt at copying the original footage.

    • @ant3x7
      @ant3x7 6 лет назад +1

      There are two copies of the 1.050M score on RUclips. One is a camera capture of the VHS tape being played on a TV while the other is a VHS-to-DVD transfer, which actually spanned two DVDs. The "video splicing" is from the uploader joining the two DVDs onto a single file to upload to RUclips. This splicing doesn't exist in the camera capture version.
      ruclips.net/video/qfk0WxlSqpo/видео.htmlh52m38s
      ruclips.net/video/Y0ZKEGZpggI/видео.htmlh53m14s

    • @HoushouRattengod
      @HoushouRattengod 6 лет назад +1

      I'm glad yall can correct me. I'm only paying attention to this briefly.

    • @MichaelPohoreski
      @MichaelPohoreski 6 лет назад

      Apollo Legend noticed the 1,050,200 tape had several suspicious audio cuts.
      ruclips.net/video/234Y76_3YPE/видео.html

    • @TheClassicWorld
      @TheClassicWorld 6 лет назад

      Ant, that video was cheated, though. The first link. He cut the video? And used MAME/recorded directly, which can not be done on the arcade you have to play on, thus he cheated?

  • @isocubesoftware2713
    @isocubesoftware2713 6 лет назад +1

    Great video. When you say that a statistical analysis shows a low likelihood (regarding the barrel smashes), do you mind showing that analysis? Did you do an ANOVA or t-test or something? Just upon looking at the number 1 score (Wes Copeland), it seems that Billy isn't much higher than him in those areas. 380 vs 371. I doubt that you can find a statistical model that won't write that off as natural variation.

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +3

      The main analysis of those aspects took place on Donkey Kong Forums. That thread is a much more manageable size, so I'd suggest looking through the last few pages there for more details on the statistical analyses.
      That said, I think the total number you reference is less important than the concentration of smashes across the individual stages. I'm not knowledgeable enough to say for sure, but the relative low number of Barrel stage smashes is likely a difference in strategy between the older scorers and newer scorers. It appears much better if you start comparing it against only Tim's score and below. In any case, the key piece of luck is winding up in a good part of the smash distribution for each stage. Each one in isolation is merely unusual; all of them happening in a single run are miraculous.

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +4

      For what it's worth, the chart was originally made by Wes, and his run did receive the same scrutiny. I don't remember where it was in the thread, but if I remember right Wes's run was in the 62nd-percentile by overall likelihood - pretty good luck, but nothing outlandish. By the same metrics, Billy's smash rates were higher than 99th-percentile. Again, you're better off hunting down those original posts if you want more information about the methodology.

    • @medes5597
      @medes5597 Год назад

      ​@@isocubesoftware2713he did. Those are wes' numbers. He concluded Billy's numbers were insanely suspicious based on his own.

    • @gustavolopes5094
      @gustavolopes5094 6 месяцев назад

      The thing is that you're comparing it to the highest known score, which was likely already very lucky, and probably required a lot of attempts to get.

  • @bryede
    @bryede 6 лет назад +2

    Is there a reason you didn't show the GIF of real hardware building the levels from the sides inward? I think that helps to show that the differences are not subtle.

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад

      The simple answer is that I cut it in the interest of making the whole presentation shorter. You're right that a real direct feed is starkly different from any of the versions of MAME, but if you get too stuck on certain parts of that explanation you can fall into traps. The "girder finger" is the clearest and most straightforward indication that many of the folks in the thread point to as a clear sign of very specific MAME versions, so that's why I focused on it.

    • @bryede
      @bryede 6 лет назад

      Ah, okay. Billy seems like the kind of guy who is going to keep up this charade to the very end. He'd be a lot better off coming clean and trying to put this behind him. I'm sure a lot of people associated with TG are sitting on damaging info and he's going to end up alone once it all comes out.

  • @NEHWind
    @NEHWind 5 лет назад

    I love the Shining Wisdom soundtrack near the beginning. First time I've ever found someone using that soundtrack out in the wild. Super underrated game!

  • @nathansmith1085
    @nathansmith1085 6 лет назад +27

    Thank God you colored this picture with crayons, now maybe Jace Hall will be able to understand what is going on here! You should also write a book, To Catch a Cheater for Dummies and send him a copy.

    • @TheRealJaceHall
      @TheRealJaceHall 6 лет назад +10

      That would be great. Thanks.

    • @catdespira2238
      @catdespira2238 6 лет назад +1

      BWAHAHAHA!!!

    • @bonchbonch
      @bonchbonch 6 лет назад +2

      If you write a book, Jace Hall will passive-aggressively question you about it.

    • @tattletail9720
      @tattletail9720 6 лет назад

      Are You Saying He Shouldn't?

  • @FloydMaxwell
    @FloydMaxwell 6 лет назад +1

    Seeing people in the comments trying to defend Billy, and their actions related -- hilarious

  • @GamingtheOtter
    @GamingtheOtter 6 лет назад

    110 people believe the high school drop out from empire arcadia...

  • @DerHoschi
    @DerHoschi Год назад

    Thank you. Learnd about him today. But everyone else thinks that the origin is known?!

  • @morten5939
    @morten5939 6 лет назад +3

    the audio-jump-cuts really makes it hard to follow at times; just a thought from someone who dont follow arcade stuff at all except this situation; when they start writing such hit-piece articles as the one on twin galaxies, a tactic they do extremely often and is so similar to other situations. this is when you know you hit the bomb.

  • @angelomattei2304
    @angelomattei2304 6 лет назад +2

    just a question,Billy win a lot of money because of this so my question is: the other guy on the movie can sue because of this?

  • @bobosprinkles
    @bobosprinkles 3 года назад +1

    Billy Mitchell: The Donald Trump of competitive gaming

  • @Talking-Monkey
    @Talking-Monkey 3 года назад +4

    It's been 3 years since watching this the first time. And it is still awesome to see Mitchell's nonsense get picked apart piece by piece using logic and science and math.

    • @RetrofIex
      @RetrofIex 2 года назад +1

      Billy doesn’t care about your logic and facts because Billy Mitchell ALWAYS wins.

  • @IceDelight
    @IceDelight 6 лет назад +1

    Good video so far, I'm half way. Also haven't read all the comments so forgive me if these have already come up; As far as I know, (I use Mame quite a bit), save states don't exist in Mame. Also concerning the video footage of the Pie Factory stage; If someone is recording a CRT with an old phone or video camera, it won't be capturing as many frames as the game is actually rendering. So it'll miss a load and it'll seem like the whole level appears all at once. A lot of the other stuff is pretty damning evidence though :P

    • @omnigamer
      @omnigamer  6 лет назад +3

      I don't know the exact version they first appeared in, but MAME has had some variety of save state functionality since about 2003. And you're right about the recording devices capturing at different rates, however this is something that was accounted for in the threads. You do get higher reliability from having multiple sources/samples to compare, but there's enough information in the existing footage to confirm MAME-specific artifacts that would never occur in a true direct feed capture.

    • @IceDelight
      @IceDelight 6 лет назад +1

      Yes, things like the finger sticking out of the garter and direct feed recordings are more solid evidence, I'm only referring to the video camera footage. I've just looked it up and I was wrong, it does look like some games used to support save states in old versions of Mame.

  • @chrisjokuhn3968
    @chrisjokuhn3968 Год назад

    Thanks for the clarification. Really helpful

  • @childofcascadia
    @childofcascadia 2 года назад

    Gotta say, I love the dragon quest music playing in the background around 15:20-17:15. I listened to this first years ago and didnt pick up on it.

  • @cattycats4
    @cattycats4 6 лет назад +1

    Seems like he put effort in trying to cover it up like the video where the dk jr boards are swapped.
    If he had not done this he couldve claimed that the arcade machine he was playing on was in fact MAME and not a real arcade machine as the evidence proves but also that he was completely unaware of it and played the machine without using any savestate or other bugs, therefore giving the possibility that his scores could remain as good.
    No doubt a skilled player but it seems he needed to manipulate the games rng in order to achieve a world record.
    Probably got tired when he thought about potentially how many different games he would need to play to get that kind of rng luck and then decided to take a shortcut.
    It is the dishonesty that is the thing that needs to be punished , and he got famous off his dishonesty. no sympathy for BM

  • @jf_valdivieso
    @jf_valdivieso 6 лет назад

    Around 16:00-16:30, I felt like continuing my game of Dragon Quest Warriors for some reason. I wondered why but didn't think much of it. Then I turned up the volume of this video and concentrated on the BG music. Ah!!

  • @CatherineBert
    @CatherineBert Год назад

    Very detailed, but why doesn’t he go into Joy stick colour?

  • @deftones953
    @deftones953 6 лет назад +3

    As much as I hate this guy for cheating, his persona and look is what inspired dr disrespect. Love/hate relationship with this guy