I'm surprised that almost all the reviews only focus on Alexander's homosexuality. Hardly anyone is interested in the countless other historical inaccuracies. Starting with a "two-eyed" Philip of Macedon, to the completely inaccurate claim that Darius III himself was not of royal descent (although he was a great-nephew of Ataxerxes II and thus descended from a collateral line of the Achaemenids), to the complete distortion of the story of Stateira - because Alexander never had an affair with Queen Stateira. But he did have an affair with her daughter of the same name. And there was also no daughter of Darius called Barsine. This was in fact a daughter of Artabazos II, the Persian satrap of Phrygia... All in all, complete historical nonsense, even though Professor Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones, a real expert on the history of the Achaemenids, was on board...
I dug and it turns out that Stateira-the daughter WAS actually called by some ancient writers "Barsine". (Either because it was her second name, or because writers confused her with Barsine, mother of Heracles). I suspect that in Netflix they called Princess "Barsine" to distinguish her from her mother. Two Stateiras might be too much for casual viewers. 😂 However, Lord knows, why they made Stateira-mother key player in first place. 🙄 They could easily give her arc to Barsine/Stateira-daughter, especially she later became Alexander's second wife. And it seems that Stateira-daughter was enough influential and dangerous, that Queen Roxana ordered her execution after Alexander's death. So Stateira the Younger would be asbolutely plausible in the arc of ambitious, cunning politician that for some reasons Netflix gave to her mother.
Lloyd Llewelyn-Jones probably advised them on the historical accuracy of the scenes, but the director had the ultimate say. This happens ALL the time with ‘popular history’. Popular history is created solely for entertainment, and the writers/directors strive to build story arcs for their characters, not to strictly recreate historical facts. Knowing this context helped me approach popular history with grounded standards. I will say, there are some mistakes that seem rather egregious (the 2-eyed Phillip as an example).
It was se777al thing. And there is difference between abuse and consensual thing. Those weren't 'children'. They were teenagers. Sentence was in case older man broke boundary, not in case of consensual relationship.
😂 so when Henry VIII is portrayed they are amplifying their attraction for the opposite sex??? Same sex love affects you so much. Why’s that? Never mind historical facts as long as you don’t have to face them.
The vast majority of the contents on Netflix are centered around a straight protagonist. Netflix, foremost, is a business and they want to appeal to as many different demographic groups as possible. So it’s not surprising that Netflix would want to make content that appeals to the LGBTQ community just as much as they do with other demographics. If you don’t like the gay content, then you don’t have to watch it. There are plenty of other shows and movies that caters to your preferences. I think it’s so stupid when one group throws an absolute bitch fit just because they’re no longer the only ones being catered to.
@@davy209unfortunately there are still a lot of ignorant people that thinks that their love (or their sexual orientation) is the only there is. So when they have to face reality through media either portrait through a documentary or through fiction, they feel the need to deny it. Your reply was great 👍🏻 and says it all.
I'm Greek and i can assure you that in the ancient original Greek texts there is no a word to describe Alexander as gay. The historian below is so right about the terminology. Kinaidos is the ancient Greek word for gay, which is not found in any amcient Greek text about Alexander. You can see words like Erastis which now has different meaning than in antiquity. Just like the ancient Greek verb Filo, which in antiquity meant = be friend or love (Philippos= filo+ ippos= someone who loves horses). But today filo means also = to kiss
All you said was nonsens. Kindaios wasn't meaning 'gay', but effeminate passive male partner. Alexander as King and adult was suppose to take active role, so he would be never insulted as 'effeminate' - because he was quite oppsite example of virility. Alexander hadboy named Bagoas as his lover - Bagoas was enunuch and he was younger. Alexander was active there, not passive. Here is quatation from Oxford Classical Dictionary: 'Men who take pleasure in being penetrated are regularly the objects of teasing, insult, or abuse. Terms for such men include Gk. katapugōn and euruprōktos and Lat. pathicus, all of whose etymologies point to the penetrated role in anal intercourse. An especially common insult is kinaidos/cinaedus. Of unknown etymology (though one ancient explanation was that it derived from Gk. kinein ta aidoia, “stimulating the private parts”), the noun’s primary referent is an Asian dancer given to suggestive movements of the hips and buttocks. To describe a man as a kinaidos/cinaedus is to portray him as effeminate and sensual, with the strong implication that he takes pleasure in being penetrated, although that is not the only sexual role he might be imagined to enjoy'
As you should know kinaidos doesn’t translate to gay because not all gays are effeminate neither all men that had sexual relations with other men in ancient Greece were defined as such. Kinaidos were ill seen by their society, they were outcast. You must understand that human relationships are different through the ages and even geographically. There is a societal rite in an African region where the future father-in-law is penetrated by his daughter groom to proof that he can perform his duties. So I don’t grasp the scandal people like you are making about this issue. One character is not defined by their sexual orientation or by their sexuality. Even Caius Julius Caesar bedded men… and much latter Abraham Lincoln. Are you saying they were less because of that?
Kinaidos wasn't what we nowadays define gay. Kinaidos means womanish man/boy, effeminate, catamite, gay passive lover. Being gay does not necessarily mean being passive, effeminate and so on. Alexander was clearly portraied by ancient sources as having also homosexual relationships at least with the eunuch Bagoas, who, being an eunuch, clearly had the part of the kinaidos, the eromenos, while Alexander was the active one, the erastes. Plutarch and Curtius Rufus are quite explicit about their relationship. All the LGBTQIA+ definitions do not fit for ancient society and ancient men, but if we want to use them we can say that Alexander was bi/pan-sexual because he had sex both with female and male partners or at least with womanish boys like the eunuch Bagoas who wasn't perceived as totally "man"
@@marbet2395 finally a good and objective comment. My thoughts exactly. But I have to clarify an issue: referring to present days being passive does not necessarily mean being effeminate. And a homosexual male that really knows his body and how to maximize pleasure is versatile. :)
@@TheLonet yes being passive today does not mean to be effeminate because we percieve love affairs and sexual relationships as mutual and reciprocal pleasures, feelings, sensations shared by two persons at the same psychological level, so that two male lovers can have both passive and active roles time by time. Usually in a mutual relationship roles changes and being passive in same sex male relationships doesn't mean being less manly. But ancient people were more strict in definition of manhood and gender roles and they didn't perceive women at the same level of men, so being passive for them meant to be like women, submitted. For an adult male being passive was perceived as acting like women and so being less men.. Ancient mentality was quite phallocentric. So anything perceived as passive made a male person appear less manly and more womanish. Usually they don't care if a man had sex also with other males, but it's necessary that all these males appeared to be dominated by the first man. Sex was also a matter of power, not always partners are considered equal. Adult male in passive roles were perceived as effeminate. Other mentality. They were more fluid about sexuality and sexual orientations, but they judged more strictly gender roles. Ok, no one really knew or saw what happened behind closed doors in bedrooms, but appearances matters... These are quite generic considerations, then things can change by times , places, persons and so on. Alexander wasn't a common man, he was a conqueror, an emperor, a king of kings, even his sexual preferences and behavior cannot be understood only with psychological or emotional consideration. According with ancient sources he had 3 wives and a mistress (or 4 wives), an harem or 365 concubines and many lovers, but who knows what was done for political reasons or for his own inclinations, what was true and what was myth, like, for example, his 13 days long having sex with the queen of Amazons..
lol So it was Netflix that made Alexander having sex with men. How hilarious. The truth even Julius Caeser had sex with men, as well as a lot of other historical figures. And women had always had sex with other women. Why? Because same sex attraction always existed. It was necessary religions - the 3 of the book - to stigmatize something natural. I don’t give a dam with whom Alexander the Great bedded with. For that he was no more nor less the man he was…
Alexander wasnt gay.Alexander had with him in his campaign his Athenian courtesan , Thais . After his death Thays maried Ptolemy who was the ancestor of Cleopatra.Also in Ancient Greece the Gods such Zeus and Appolo had experiences with men this did not reduse their masculinity it was simply sex.
Blshts. There is no gay to fight like badass Alexander did Any historian with basic knowledge in ancient Greek language knows that the ancient original Greek word for gay (as it is described today) is : Kinaidos. (So called historian at the beginning of the 1st episode said that there was no word for gays. WRONG....) There was this word (KINAIDOS) which is not used by any ancient historian to describe Alexander
Kindaios wasn't meaning 'gay', but effeminate passive male partner. Alexander as King and adult was suppose to take active role, so he would be never insulted as 'effeminate' - because he was quite oppsite example of virility. Alexander hadboy named Bagoas as his lover - Bagoas was enunuch and he was younger. Alexander was active there, not passive. Here is quatation from Oxford Classical Dictionary: 'Men who take pleasure in being penetrated are regularly the objects of teasing, insult, or abuse. Terms for such men include Gk. katapugōn and euruprōktos and Lat. pathicus, all of whose etymologies point to the penetrated role in anal intercourse. An especially common insult is kinaidos/cinaedus. Of unknown etymology (though one ancient explanation was that it derived from Gk. kinein ta aidoia, “stimulating the private parts”), the noun’s primary referent is an Asian dancer given to suggestive movements of the hips and buttocks. To describe a man as a kinaidos/cinaedus is to portray him as effeminate and sensual, with the strong implication that he takes pleasure in being penetrated, although that is not the only sexual role he might be imagined to enjoy'
@@issavisisland9870 He didn't explain, anything - he LIED. That word he is talking about was apllied to feminine men. Alexander was masculine warrior - none would apply this word to him. Alexander is well recorded to have interest in men.
Also - correction - Alexander had TWO legitimate children, both by Roxana. Their first child was born and died during their campaign in India in 326 BC, as recorded in Metz Epitome . Then, Alexander the Younger was born in 323 BC.
Many scholars question whether Alexander had two sons and that he was actually the father of Heracles. Because Alexander never formally acknowledged this child. Because you read it in some website it doesn't mean that it is true.
@@AllThatMattersByDrTK What is speculation??? Metz Epitome states that Roxana had her first child in India and this child did not survive. You need birth certificate of the baby to acknowledge historical record?
@@AllThatMattersByDrTK I was talking about two children of Roxana. I never mentioned Heracles. Alexander had TWO LEGITIMATE children. Heracles was bastard, I wasn't talking about him.
They didn't turned Alexander into gay, as historical Alexander is recorde to have affairs with men. And I don't get when you saw him "weak" in show. He is quite brutal.
One of the guys on the documentary drama straight up lied. He said that the ancient breaks didn't have a word for homosexual. They actually had a word for a feminine homosexual. Alexander's parent s were worried that Alexander was one. He supposedly had a relationship with a Persian eunuch. Will never know for sure. But it does appear Alexander's sexuality was at least fluid.
The word for a male homosexual was ''κίναιδος'', he who provoke the public shame, meaning the man with a passive role and womanlike behavior. As in modern Greece, where I live, everything was a matter of appearances. If you had a manly look, a manly behavior and was into manly things, everything was ok. Even if occasionally you were fucking something else beside of women.
Not just Netflix, even the fanfictions written on Alexander are mostly about his "love affair" Hephaestion, as if there was nothing else about Alexander worth mentioning! Why are these people so obsessed with Alexander & Hephaestion being lovers?? This is honestly so annoying! There are so many fascinating aspects of Alexander's life. It's for these that he's still celebrated after 2 millennia, not for being gay! Why ain't these aspects highlighted??
I bet it would not confound you when they portray Henry VIII and his wives or the relationship between Napoleon and Josephine. I agree with you that his love and sexual relationships aren’t the most relevant but for a world and a time where there are still people executed because of they love; when you have a state like Florida ruled by an homophobe; when you have people ostracized only because of who they love I find rather important to portray same sex love in popular culture and in entertainment to for once and for all normalize something that always existed and as this youtuber up in his pedestal says it still shocks people (although those that feel like that doesn’t deserve any consideration from me).
@@TheLonetit's not relevant because it's un-proven fan fiction ffs , what are you waffling about? 😂🤡 just netflix re-writting history for their own weird fan fiction 😂 not even a documentary , soooooo many inaccuracies
Because the fleeting mention here of Alexander’s relationship sends those with deep seated sexual insecurities into a rage. At no point did the programme state that Alexander was gay? It touched so briefly on his relationship.
@@sonmarsha69 lol unproven? 😂😂😂😂 What is proven is the panic guys like you have when they find out that virility has nothing to do with one goes to bed. Get a grip. Grow up, get an education because it has nothing to do with fanzine but with the truth no matter how that truth can hurt macho men like you.
@@djb5645 I totally agree with you. They shout that it’s fiction because for them being true hurts their own virility, their vision of the world. Alexander’s same sex relations are well documented as well Julius Caesar’s and even the Portuguese prince, Infante D. Henrique. There are people that think that such a thing tarnish Alexander’s character. It’s quite pathetic to deny what is an historical fact.
@@changthao4875 I think it depends how you look at "Greekness". There was no such country as "Greece" in ancient times. But there was Hellenic culture on area of modern day Greece. Alexander and other Macedonians embraced Hellenic culture and if "Hellenic=Greek", then it means Alexander was culturally Greek.
There is NO hostoric source proving this. Absolutely NONE. He was offered "kids' by the Persians, to please him, but he actually punished those who did this.
@@HistoryLeaks Genghis Khan? Yeah they say 10 but those are official. 1 in 5 people have his DNA in his country today. Thats a ton of loads. Alexander had 1 due to pressure to have and Heir. He was most definitely a gay man.
How can anyone be surprised? Look at how they screwed up their series on Cleopatra. Cleopatra was not Black. She was Ptolomey and of Greek ancestry and DNA.
@@elenin7917 Yes, he is. Why your kind poeple never do any research?? 1) It is said Alexander kissed Bagoas, after Bagoas captivated him with dance. Bagoas was a MAN. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite, Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander. (Now, of course that doesn't proove he shared bed with Bagoas, but it shows he was willing to kiss other man.) 2) Another quote is from The History of Alexander the Great, book 7, by Quintus Curtius Rufus: "Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate". This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too. "There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes". „For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity. 3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers. That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 look, all these quotes have been written by plutarch and other roman storytellers 100 of years after he passed… how are these sources reliable? is there one that was written in the same era?
It seems to me that it requires a greater intellectual effort to deny that the relationship of Alexander and Hephaestion was one of lovers than to affirm it. This is not a gossipy inconsequential matter. Hephaestion was one of Alexander’s greatest influences not only personal , but military and political. When they say that there is no evidence to support the nature of the relationship, I wonder what kind of evidence they would require; a sex tape? Something missing here is that there seems to be very little discussion about his own father’s sexuality which would greatly help to put most of this in context : Philip who evidently had relationships with several women also, evidently, had at least two male lovers. What is curious is that in none of the historical accounts this is shown as been out of the norm or reprovable in any way. If this was normal for Philip, why do we have to spend that much energy denying that it was feasible that Alexander had a lover when so much of what has been chronicled strongly suggests he did?
Who cares, remember the man for his accomplishments Not his sleeping habits, nitwits, and identity politics people focusing on that garbage, it’s his accomplishments that tells you who he was
To be honest is bothering me seeing someone immediately jumping to criticism for 1 adaptation of sooooooo damnnnnn many in this world about Alexander, that is focusing on his sexuale life in the first episode and a bit on the last a bit, saying "that there are so many other aspects of his life that where amazing blah blah blah" yes we know, we already saw all of them, and now that the sexual aspect (bisexual one, if it was str8 you would've not make this video) is shown "netflix dose not have proof, is not accurate, or whatever else. We don't know 100% anything, and we will most likely never know unless a time machine is invented. In my opinion, if someone is so hurt by someone else dying, not family included, that means it has to be love, no? For me, that's enough proof. Especially in a time when so many others were dying like files, and it seemed it was not that important to him.
Thanks for your comment and sharing your point of view, I really appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Are there that many adaptations of Alexander the great? I mean there might be but there was only one major other one which was the film (which wasn't the best but I liked the battle scenes) I think from 2004, and there he is depicted as gay as well. What other adaptations are there that are famous? I think there are a lot of things about Alexander that people do not know, which are kinda cool. Like for example he is said to have known the names of 10,000 of his men, which is quite an amazing leadership quality, you wouldn't see even with the best CEO's of todays world. I personally would be more interested in things like that give you more of a sense of his character rather than something so superficial, which is not proven, only a theory, trying to grab the audiences attention. If the explanation is enough for you then that's fine, I see no problem there my friend, For me, I''m only saying f it was 100% proven and agreed upon fact, I would have no problem with Alexander the great being gay, it would be very interesting actually. But it is not completely agreed upon, its only a theory or one explanation related to the stories of how he cared for his buddy Hephaestion. That is my opinion here and the message I'm trying to get across.
Absolutely, I currently use a Canon camera for filming and a Shure mic for audio. But nowadays you don’t need that iPhones can film in 4k which is pretty good
erastis is the teacher and eromenos is the student desire for knowledge, the modern greek translation has a different meaning after 2k years which translates simply in english to ''lover'' but why describe smth with 2 words that has the so called same meaning today when they were 2 separate words? if you do the correct translations these words just make sence in every altered historical figures like band of thebes, achiles patroclus, spartans warriors. It is not a misunderstanding like some claim it is simply bad translation and interpretation of ancient greek language that is lost and still examined to this day with all its meanings. Smth last in ancient greece existed 20 descriptions (words) to desribe homo/gay actions or epithets. Not once was used in the instances i said.
it is the same nonsense as black Cleopatra. Those historians have no clue about what they are talking about and are providing no evidence. It's Netflix version of Ancient Aliens. There are many inaccuracies and plain out incorrect statements. Especially the "prove" was Sparta. But at the time Sparta was also an "ungreece" nation that was mocked by Greeks for the gay relationships in the spartan army. Besides, no one can say if the Spartan gay relationships had anything to do with what gay is today. The entire high level romance story for a Macedonian King is completely unprofessional without bringing up evidence. The only thing that seems to have accuracy is that Alexander and his later wife Roxana grew into each other. But that wasn't even part of the show. So no matter what. Describing him as gay is already imprecise and wrong. And what also went completely under the rug was that Macedonia was not part of Greece. At least when asking the Greek. It's another sad and expensive show with "alien guy" type of scientists and history telling of make believe that is unfounded in historical evidence. If at least would evidence been shown and not just bluntly ignored in front of the camera.
None in the show describe him as gay - they even highlight (just like you) that it would be inaccurate. It is NOT the same thing like with Cleopatra. We have images of Cleopatra. We know she didn't look like Adele James. In Alexander's case we DO have records that portray him as attracted to men. 1) It is said Alexander kissed Bagoas, after Bagoas captivated him with dance. Bagoas was a MAN. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite, Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander. (Now, of course that doesn't proove he shared bed with Bagoas, but it shows he was willing to kiss other man.) 2) Another quote is from The History of Alexander the Great, book 7, by Quintus Curtius Rufus: "Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate". This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too. "There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes". „For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity. 3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers. That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
@@sarabennett6295 Netflix absolutely does have agenda, but that was not one of this instances. Alexander IS recordeD to having male lover (Bagoas), and Hephaistion was very likely his lover too.
@@Mardanzo really? And you sustain your allegation on what? Wishful thinking so that your macho feelings don’t get hurt… the internet has its advantages but also allows for ignorant, hateful and stupid people like you to see the light of day out of their cave.
Well he was mourning the death of his friend, who he went to war and on campaign with, they faced many hardships together, near death experiences, and that creates a bond that only people who actually experience war might understand
Okay people let's stop this post Christian moral discussion about homosexuality it is a fact that many military units in the Greek countries countries not only had male lovers as a norm but often preferred it. The Spartans and also the Immortals of Thieves are just two of the military units that come to mind they didn't consider themselves gay most soldiers would marry before they left for battle in case they died so it was common for soldiers to have wives back home butt on campaign have a male lover male companions that they occasionally had sex with camp followers or prostitutes we're quite rare because of the speed in which they marched and also it could be very dangerous being in an encampment if the enemy was close by in case the camp got sacked some cultures believed it made better Warriors to have your lover next to you but remember condemnation homosexuality was enforced when Christianity took over most of the countries and the cultures back in ancient Greece and Rome had no problem with bisexuality and technically they were bisexual unfortunately the original records we're probably destroyed and when they were Rewritten homosexuality was written out just as many other facts for written out of History just to conform to a different moral code personally it doesn't matter it certainly doesn't take away from any of his accomplishments if he was bisexual. And many of the military units that had male lovers fighting in Paris fighting as pairs are still known as some of the best fighting forces today Darius not only had a large Harem of women buddy had many eunuch concubines this too has been written out of History in order to conform to our modern-day prejudicial views ancient Greek had separate words for different kinds of love mother child love husband wife love man to man love man to child love it wasn't a problem we're only making it a problem because of the prejudicial way we we're talk to view homosexuality for bisexuality
lol yeah it wasn’t as bad as usual but there were a few things, like Phillip not having a scarred one eye was quite a big fumble on their part lol just takes one google image search 😂
@@thiseaslostinlabyrinth5471 exactly, I do not know. But people are curious about everybody else's sex life. That goes with life. Unless you're completely asexual or celibate then you will never know the peace that comes with it So people are always going to be nosey about what's going on behind their neighbours closed curtains. They cannot help themselves. They have just got to know. It's what gets their juices flowing. Hence, the success rate of " Mills and boom" formula romance. And that's fairly innocuous stuff. As far as history goes, it's not much better. We remember Macbeth and his wife for their crimes. Richard the third, for his as well....and all the other worse tyrants to follow. We don't remember the good guys.
You're not treating the topic as ambiguous. You state that there is no real evidence of Alexander's "gaiety"; therefore, he most likely was not so inclined. Yet Arrian called Hephaistion Alexander's inamorata, we have to concede that "it's complicated".
The whole take on pederasty is not true. It was not supposed to be gay at all. But things happen, and it's the base word for pedophile if you want to know how a majority of Greeks felt about that.
I tried to provide a balanced view, but I also believe that it wasn't intended for that as well. Although it may have occurred at times. However, it's not the only institution in history that has had those kind of issues...look at the catholic church ( I am sure there are other examples as well) maybe it's one of the many examples where power/authority can be abused?
@@thiseaslostinlabyrinth5471 We have many records. 1) It is said Alexander kissed Bagoas, after Bagoas captivated him with dance. Bagoas was a MAN. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite, Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander. 2) Another quote is from The History of Alexander the Great, book 7, by Quintus Curtius Rufus: "Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate". This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too. "There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes". „For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity. 3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers. That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Persians offered boys to Alexander to please him and he punished them for doing so. It is common for westerners to misunderstand Greeks. Greeks TOLERATED different people/behaviour/beliefs/ideas/etc. This doesn't mean that they were all gays.
I mean do they really have to be historically accurate for making a series? Because i thought they would be free to change the plot or make possible assumptions and exaggerate them. I didn't know there was a limit in film making. Like do you really think Persians looked like the way movie 300 showed them? I'm sure a Persian king would not go to war in his underwear lol. Also most evidence shows Persians had facial hair but he was bald and without facial hair.
Fair point but the Netflix series claims to be a documentary. While 300 makes no such claim, it doesn’t claim to be historically accurate, on the contrary I’m pretty sure it’s based on a comic book.
I think the "was he gay" argument misses the point. If Alexander was bisexual or whatever could have been said and discussed and no one would have a problem with it. It was HOW it was discussed that was the problem. They went to it literally in five minutes of the program like that was the most important thing. They also did not need some long tongue kissing scene in a lake like it was a gay hallmark movie. I, like most regular people, do not want to see that and I assumed the rest of it would be all about being gay. Who wants to see that? That is what the problem is. I have no desire to get into some argument about if he was gay since we do not know since it was 2300 years ago. Netflix clearly wanted this to be all about him being gay, and that is not why people want to watch a documentary about Alexander when there were literally about 500 more important things to show about him. The show is far left drivel once again reducing everything to sex and identity politics of 2024.
"They also did not need some long tongue kissing scene in a lake like it was a gay hallmark movie. I, like most regular people, do not want to see that and I assumed the rest of it would be all about being gay. Who wants to see that?" - Gay people, for example - me for example. Stop using this argument, it's ridiculous! When I watched Spartacus tv show I had no pleasure watching female nudity, but I simply winded the scenes. Problems solved! Don't want watch - wind. Also - I know that many straight women actually DO like watch gay scenes. I don't know if you are man who is hetero, but if you are - stop assume that you are only audience of movies about ancient warriors. Gay and bi people also watch. And straight women who like watch gay scenes. As a gay man I watched primarily, because I wanted dto know if they FINALLY mentioned his affairs with men (as they did omitted this completely documentary from 2014; and as many documentaries about gay/bi rulers unfortunately still do. And this time I was very pleasantly surprised. And I was shocked to see how people are surprised on Alexander probably being bi. Yes, we have 2024, so you should understand how much it is important to tell stories that was thwarted in past because of societal biases. Yet you have issue that gay people got stories of same gender relationships finally told when they had NEVER before got this chance! Instead of being happy that other people got justice, you got upset because scenes do not fit in your esthetic taste! Well, maybe then you shouldn't in first place watch movie about man known from relationships with both men and women. 🤷🏻♂ "They went to it literally in five minutes of the program like that was the most important thing." - But it was one of most important thing in his life! Hephaistion was THE most important person in his life. You are just homoph&c here. You would have no problem if they show him with Roxana or some fictional woman in those first 8 munites. You woulnd't be here writing "I had to watch him kssing his wife/girlfriend and there is 500 more important things for him". Alexander is recorded to have male lover named Bagoas. Wheter Hephaistion was he lover or not (and if he was - how long exactly) is suject of debate, but he certainly was person Alexander loved the most. After Hephaistion passed away, it broke Alexander's spirit - he never recovered after this. "Netflix clearly wanted this to be all about him being gay" - One of most absurd lies I ever heard. Episode 1 is the only episode when they actaully kiss. How series is about him "being gay", if rest of it is actually about him doing those 500 important things you wanted see 🤦🏻♂ You are simply homoph&e who isn't fair. Yes, being attracted to men isn't the most important thing about Alexander. But it is one of the most important things. If they show him with his wife - you wouldn't be here writing this. So check your biases, instead of looking issue where there is no issue.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 The problem is what your saying is 100% speculation based on pseudo wishful thinking. "Recorded to have male lovers" you mean the Greek platonic term they used for a strong friendship that was not sexual or romantic in anyway.
I was like with my father and he just wanna talked with me and he picke the remote cherching for a show or a serie he saw the alexander we watch like first minutes until the fucking gay shit begins
He was not gay. He stopped in Persia because of tbe beautiful women. He married the daughter of the Persian king. He found a wife for each of his men there.
Maybe he had a thing for brunettes? and what a great wing man there getting wives for his boys 🫡 Thanks for your comment I hope you have a great week 💯🙏
Marriages were political and him having wives doesn't mean he couldn't be attracted to both men and women. There are records of him having relationships with men. Also - most of his men divorced their Persian wives as soon as he passed away (Seleucos was notable exeption; he stayed with his Sogdian wife, Apama).
It is an established FACT that "homosexual" activities and pederasty was established in ancient Greek, Roman, Theban and Spartan cultures. Portraying the truth isn't "woke" ffs
I think they did right thing by showing theory about them as lovers, however I think they should explain what are clues that led us to believe in this.
they didn't show theory. They stated facts with a fat gay guys wishful thinking was evidence enough...if you want to call that evidence. At the end there never was evidence except the evidence for ice cold historians who can't understand any relationship between human beings that is not possible sexual. Maybe a problem born out of the fact that more than rarely historians are not Indiana Jones, they are usually nerds and geeks. It is only the saying that some of his companions believed that they were lovers as Alexander heavily grieved over the death of Hephaistos. But others just said it's because they were close friends. And for a fact they were life long friends that nearly shared every day of their lives. That is way more than even siblings do nowadays. If I want o compare that relationship to anything it's twins. And there it is unquestioned that the death of one means a momentan grieve for the other. So in short: It's fan fiction and make believe. The only scientific thing that could be said is that there is a possibility that they had experiences maybe of homosexuality but more likely of orgies with women. But those things are not really things that was noted down by writers or even less by those who claimed their thrones of their Kingdoms on the close relationship to Alexander.
@@stemill1569 Selima was saying that Hephaistion was "PERHAPS his gretaest love", which means she left room for doubt. "Fat guy" was talking about homo***ty in general. As for scenes of them as lovers - it was dramatized sequention While relationship between Alexander and Heph is ambigous, Bagoas is named as bedmate of Alexander by Quintus Curtius Rufus and Plutarch and Athenaeus mention their public kiss.
I think "showing the theory" would be subtly hinting at it without explicitly showing anything. When you explicitly show it, you're revealing it on par with brute facts, and thereby overstate the theory.
While the nature of his relationship with Hephaistion is speculative, I would highlight we have record of Alexander kissing man or even sharing bed with them. 1) It is said Alexander had affair with man called Bagoas. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite [lover/eromenos], Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander. „And the Celtæ, too, although they have the most beautiful women of all the barbarians, still make great favourites of boys . . . . . And the Persians, according to the statement of Herodotus, learnt from the Greeks to adopt this fashion. Alexander the king was also very much in the habit of giving in to this fashion. Accordingly, Dicæarchus, in his treatise on the Sacrifice at Troy, says that he [Alexander]was so much under the influence of Bagoas the eunuch, that he embraced him in the sight of the whole theatre; and that when the whole theatre shouted in approval of the action, he repeated it”. Athenaeus, The Deipnosophists (book 13) 2) Another quote is from The History of Alexander the Great, book 7, by Quintus Curtius Rufus: "Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate". This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too. "There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes". „For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity. 3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers. That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
That doesn't prove much, either. Straight actors may kiss their own gender if the script demands it, but this is acting! Speaking about Alexander, he also sometimes acted as a living god, but we know for certain he wasn't one. And we can't even be sure if he believed himself to be, or adopted a certain persona for PR reasons! If we chose to stick to the definition of gayness which is to be attracted by persons of the same gender, and add the whole harem theory plus 4/5 wifes, it would seem that Alexander was rather attracted to women! Again, the only way to know is to ask the man himself... but for apparent reasons we cannot. Everything else is speculative.
@@UGTLDG (Did you read until end...? Rufus claims it was more than kiss with Bagoas) I agree, however my point is that claims about about him liking men are still based on partial evidence ancient records. It is not invention of Netflix or other modern movement. Also - marriages were POLITICAL. Only two legitimate children were born from them - and both by the same woman (Roxana). There are conflicting sources about him and women, but I don't really see an issue here. People can be attracted to both genders, so him having (political) marriages doesn't preclude affair with man. To me it seems more suggest that Alexander avoided women than was actively sleeping with them. There was even anectode he as young man didn't want to sleep with women, even when his own mother bring him one.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 I meant kiss just as an example, adult actors do much more, but it's still acting. And rape was also a war crime as old as war itself, again without a general indication of attraction. As the HL said, it was more of a domination/subjugation scheme than a sexual fetich. This is also one of the reasons why sexual harassment is a big NO in credible companies. I admit that marriages, or even a whole harem don't say the whole story, either. It's all debatable, more so if the subjects in question are kings of old, actors by definition. But imho this should be the opening statement of any historian...
@@UGTLDG " it was more of a domination/subjugation scheme" - True, but I cannot imagine that someone would assaulted person to whom he isn't attracted in first place. I wasn't saying about harrasment anyway.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Sadly they would. No gender or age or bodytype was safe. Rape, comes out of hatred, rather than attraction. Details, testimonies, expert opinions, laws can all be found online, I don't want to linger on the subject. I used this extreme example to demonstrate that sometimes people act differently that what they are, or want. If we want to ascertain someone's inclinations, an interview is crucial. Without that, we may never know.
@@jackiec.barnes9567 I think then you never read any book about ancient history. There are PLENTY of evidence. Here: 1) It is said Alexander kissed Bagoas, after Bagoas captivated him with dance. Bagoas was a MAN. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite, Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander. (Now, of course that doesn't proove he shared bed with Bagoas, but it shows he was willing to kiss other man.) 2) And here from Quintus Curtius Rufus, THE HISTORIES OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT: „Euxenippos was still very young and a favourite of the king because of his youthful beauty, but although in handsome appearance he was equal to Hephaestion, he was not his match in a charm which was indeed not manly”. This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too. "There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes". „For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity. 3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers. That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 ... Gay or Bi is a slim difference to a straight, but okay. In the meantime, I'd already stated that Brad Pitt played Achilles, so I'm not grasping the purpose of the bracketed portion of your comment ...😶
But as for Achilles - it is different. Achilles was mythical figure, so there is no correct or wrong with him. There are myths that show him with women and those who show him with men.
It's also very important to know that while Alexander married several times for political reasons and fathered children, these actions were typical of kings in antiquity who needed to secure alliances and produce heirs. These marriages do not necessarily negate the possibility of his having had homosexual relationships, as such political marriages were often separate from personal sexual preferences.
So let me get this…if an historian 200 years after his death says that we was a straight dog that did women all year long then it’s true, but if historians FROM his life time that got their records by asking his companions say that he was so in love with Hephaestion that they went together to the Achilles and Patroclus shrine to imitate what they did, and than when Hephaestion died he was so destroyed that he like Achilles cut his hair with his own sword while still with the dead body that’s a “we don’t know how much they’re exaggerating” of course cause “He f*k every woman in Persia at lest ones” it’s more believable that “he loved that dude over there so much that after he died, he demanded that the dude became a God” (he didn’t he just became a divine hero)…that’s a true agenda over there “let’s believe this bat 💩 crazy theory cause me macho and I don’t like strong dudes not being machos like me”
Who was the historian from his life time which said he was in love with Hephaestion? and to be clear my position is not that I blindly believe Livy's account, my position is that there are also accounts showing he was really into women which are totally ignored. It's conflicting accounts and neither of us know for sure...
Alexandros child hood hero was Achilles indeed he carried the Iliad with him all times, secondly no where in historical records is Alexandros depicted anything close to homo sexual but on the contrary he was furious when satrapies Persian commander's offered him beautiful boys. The biggest misrepresentation derives from the word (eromenos) that was described by historian Plutarch for hephaestions and the big translating mistake came actually from french and english translators. So eromenos in modern greek means lover, in ancient greek eromenos has the meaning of beloved or close to the heart and this particular word was used to describe love to arts love to studies and many more things in hephaestions meaning it means close to heart as a childhood friend
nowhere is mentioned that he was inlove with men. So if my best friend that we grew up together and having him as a brother dies, wouldn't i be devastated? does that mean that i was inlove with him? what a load of crap from today's people.
what historians asked his companions? Literally a bodyguard of his ( a childhood friend marsyas) when received a letter of a persian commander who was offering 2 young boys to alexander was afraid to tell him and when he did in front of the rest bodyguards Alexandros got furious and sent a letter back to the persian : You moron what do you know about my preferences to offer me such kind of pleasures? Pray to gods I won't cross you or else. This is an eyewitness and a close person to alexander testify recorded evidence
I would also mention that worth mentioning there was Sacred Band of Thebes, made of male adult lovers, that was very much admired by King Philip, Alexander teh Great;s father, who is said to weep after he defeated them and said outloud that he cursed those who shame Sacred Band lovers. Philip himself had male lovers.
Yeah that’s another example but a lot of what we know about the sacred band was written by the Athenians, who were enemies of the Corinthians at certain times, and it’s possible it wasn’t entirely true, we don’t know for sure …
@@HistoryLeaks Well, we never know anything for sure. But there are things that were more likely and less likely, and there is Ockham'z razor. At the very least Thebes was famous from its respect towards male lovers. Corynthian athelete Diocles settled here with his lover Filaos, and they were both buried together. And male lovers in Thebes supposedly were taking oath on alleged tomb of Ioalos (lover/nephew/friend of Heracles).
You are replying as if you were there and saw everything. All these you are mentioning are just speculations. However, you are entitled to your opinion in the social media as everybody else.
@@AllThatMattersByDrTK I didn't saw anything. However, there are speculations that are more likely to be true and speculations less likely. When someone speculates that Cleopatra the Great was Black because we don't know her mother, it is UNLIKELY, as we have actual images of her and she doesn't look Black, no matter who was her mother. In Alexander's case we have some ancient records that imply Alexander's interest in men, so if we gonna believe those records, it is quite LIKELY he had relationships with men. And in case of Sacred Band - Ockham's razor - the simplest explanation is the best. If sources state they were lovers, most likely it was this. (Maybe if we apply bit skepticism, them mayne Band wasn't made entirely by couples, but I suppose male lovers were at least in charge, so that's why it bacem famous of male lovers.)
@@AllThatMattersByDrTK I wasn't, that's true, but there are speculations that are more and less likely. If records say they were male lovers and suggest that Alxander himself had male lovers, then it is likely that was how things were. We will never know what happened in bedroom. But on basis available evidence it seems likely Sacred Band were made of at least partially of male partners and Alexander likely had men as partners too. Yes, it is speculation, but there is base to speculate.
Even he is gay,there is alot of way to start tell his story. Not straight away showing is this pride is very first few minutes into the tale or documentary. It's just cringe. I sometimes watch gay videos, but when i comes to watch a documentary about a great person ever lived,this not the way to begun it.
It is "cringe" because you were taught you should view it as cringe. You wouldn't think twice if they show him with girl. Work on being accepting person.
I'm surprised that almost all the reviews only focus on Alexander's homosexuality. Hardly anyone is interested in the countless other historical inaccuracies. Starting with a "two-eyed" Philip of Macedon, to the completely inaccurate claim that Darius III himself was not of royal descent (although he was a great-nephew of Ataxerxes II and thus descended from a collateral line of the Achaemenids), to the complete distortion of the story of Stateira - because Alexander never had an affair with Queen Stateira. But he did have an affair with her daughter of the same name. And there was also no daughter of Darius called Barsine. This was in fact a daughter of Artabazos II, the Persian satrap of Phrygia...
All in all, complete historical nonsense, even though Professor Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones, a real expert on the history of the Achaemenids, was on board...
YES! such a good point, I cannot believe the costume department couldn’t even get an eye patch for the actor playing Phillip.
I dug and it turns out that Stateira-the daughter WAS actually called by some ancient writers "Barsine". (Either because it was her second name, or because writers confused her with Barsine, mother of Heracles). I suspect that in Netflix they called Princess "Barsine" to distinguish her from her mother. Two Stateiras might be too much for casual viewers. 😂 However, Lord knows, why they made Stateira-mother key player in first place. 🙄 They could easily give her arc to Barsine/Stateira-daughter, especially she later became Alexander's second wife. And it seems that Stateira-daughter was enough influential and dangerous, that Queen Roxana ordered her execution after Alexander's death. So Stateira the Younger would be asbolutely plausible in the arc of ambitious, cunning politician that for some reasons Netflix gave to her mother.
I had to research as I was watching
Lloyd Llewelyn-Jones probably advised them on the historical accuracy of the scenes, but the director had the ultimate say. This happens ALL the time with ‘popular history’. Popular history is created solely for entertainment, and the writers/directors strive to build story arcs for their characters, not to strictly recreate historical facts. Knowing this context helped me approach popular history with grounded standards. I will say, there are some mistakes that seem rather egregious (the 2-eyed Phillip as an example).
Pederasty wasn't a sexual thing ..this is hilarius if not insulting. The law for molesting a child was "death on the same day"
It was se777al thing. And there is difference between abuse and consensual thing. Those weren't 'children'. They were teenagers. Sentence was in case older man broke boundary, not in case of consensual relationship.
If you expect to learn history from netflix, then it is your fault
If Alexander was bisexual, it’s obvious that Netflix would immediately amplify the gay part ASAP.
😂 so when Henry VIII is portrayed they are amplifying their attraction for the opposite sex??? Same sex love affects you so much. Why’s that? Never mind historical facts as long as you don’t have to face them.
How is it obvious?
And……..?
The vast majority of the contents on Netflix are centered around a straight protagonist. Netflix, foremost, is a business and they want to appeal to as many different demographic groups as possible. So it’s not surprising that Netflix would want to make content that appeals to the LGBTQ community just as much as they do with other demographics. If you don’t like the gay content, then you don’t have to watch it. There are plenty of other shows and movies that caters to your preferences. I think it’s so stupid when one group throws an absolute bitch fit just because they’re no longer the only ones being catered to.
@@davy209unfortunately there are still a lot of ignorant people that thinks that their love (or their sexual orientation) is the only there is. So when they have to face reality through media either portrait through a documentary or through fiction, they feel the need to deny it. Your reply was great 👍🏻 and says it all.
I'm Greek and i can assure you that in the ancient original Greek texts there is no a word to describe Alexander as gay. The historian below is so right about the terminology. Kinaidos is the ancient Greek word for gay, which is not found in any amcient Greek text about Alexander. You can see words like Erastis which now has different meaning than in antiquity.
Just like the ancient Greek verb Filo, which in antiquity meant = be friend or love (Philippos= filo+ ippos= someone who loves horses).
But today filo means also = to kiss
All you said was nonsens. Kindaios wasn't meaning 'gay', but effeminate passive male partner. Alexander as King and adult was suppose to take active role, so he would be never insulted as 'effeminate' - because he was quite oppsite example of virility. Alexander hadboy named Bagoas as his lover - Bagoas was enunuch and he was younger. Alexander was active there, not passive.
Here is quatation from Oxford Classical Dictionary: 'Men who take pleasure in being penetrated are regularly the objects of teasing, insult, or abuse. Terms for such men include Gk. katapugōn and euruprōktos and Lat. pathicus, all of whose etymologies point to the penetrated role in anal intercourse. An especially common insult is kinaidos/cinaedus. Of unknown etymology (though one ancient explanation was that it derived from Gk. kinein ta aidoia, “stimulating the private parts”), the noun’s primary referent is an Asian dancer given to suggestive movements of the hips and buttocks. To describe a man as a kinaidos/cinaedus is to portray him as effeminate and sensual, with the strong implication that he takes pleasure in being penetrated, although that is not the only sexual role he might be imagined to enjoy'
As you should know kinaidos doesn’t translate to gay because not all gays are effeminate neither all men that had sexual relations with other men in ancient Greece were defined as such. Kinaidos were ill seen by their society, they were outcast. You must understand that human relationships are different through the ages and even geographically. There is a societal rite in an African region where the future father-in-law is penetrated by his daughter groom to proof that he can perform his duties. So I don’t grasp the scandal people like you are making about this issue. One character is not defined by their sexual orientation or by their sexuality. Even Caius Julius Caesar bedded men… and much latter Abraham Lincoln. Are you saying they were less because of that?
Kinaidos wasn't what we nowadays define gay. Kinaidos means womanish man/boy, effeminate, catamite, gay passive lover. Being gay does not necessarily mean being passive, effeminate and so on. Alexander was clearly portraied by ancient sources as having also homosexual relationships at least with the eunuch Bagoas, who, being an eunuch, clearly had the part of the kinaidos, the eromenos, while Alexander was the active one, the erastes. Plutarch and Curtius Rufus are quite explicit about their relationship. All the LGBTQIA+ definitions do not fit for ancient society and ancient men, but if we want to use them we can say that Alexander was bi/pan-sexual because he had sex both with female and male partners or at least with womanish boys like the eunuch Bagoas who wasn't perceived as totally "man"
@@marbet2395 finally a good and objective comment. My thoughts exactly. But I have to clarify an issue: referring to present days being passive does not necessarily mean being effeminate. And a homosexual male that really knows his body and how to maximize pleasure is versatile. :)
@@TheLonet yes being passive today does not mean to be effeminate because we percieve love affairs and sexual relationships as mutual and reciprocal pleasures, feelings, sensations shared by two persons at the same psychological level, so that two male lovers can have both passive and active roles time by time. Usually in a mutual relationship roles changes and being passive in same sex male relationships doesn't mean being less manly. But ancient people were more strict in definition of manhood and gender roles and they didn't perceive women at the same level of men, so being passive for them meant to be like women, submitted. For an adult male being passive was perceived as acting like women and so being less men..
Ancient mentality was quite phallocentric. So anything perceived as passive made a male person appear less manly and more womanish. Usually they don't care if a man had sex also with other males, but it's necessary that all these males appeared to be dominated by the first man. Sex was also a matter of power, not always partners are considered equal. Adult male in passive roles were perceived as effeminate. Other mentality. They were more fluid about sexuality and sexual orientations, but they judged more strictly gender roles. Ok, no one really knew or saw what happened behind closed doors in bedrooms, but appearances matters... These are quite generic considerations, then things can change by times , places, persons and so on. Alexander wasn't a common man, he was a conqueror, an emperor, a king of kings, even his sexual preferences and behavior cannot be understood only with psychological or emotional consideration. According with ancient sources he had 3 wives and a mistress (or 4 wives), an harem or 365 concubines and many lovers, but who knows what was done for political reasons or for his own inclinations, what was true and what was myth, like, for example, his 13 days long having sex with the queen of Amazons..
Basically the way the world works today, if Netflix couldn't make Alexander gay, then this whole show couldn't even exist.
Yeah they never fail to disappoint do they 🤐
hey fucked dudes LOL @@HistoryLeaks
Ancient Greek, Rome and Sparta had a well developed culture of "homosexual" activity and pederasty. Established FACT.
lol So it was Netflix that made Alexander having sex with men. How hilarious. The truth even Julius Caeser had sex with men, as well as a lot of other historical figures. And women had always had sex with other women. Why? Because same sex attraction always existed. It was necessary religions - the 3 of the book - to stigmatize something natural. I don’t give a dam with whom Alexander the Great bedded with. For that he was no more nor less the man he was…
I'm watching Cleopatra right now on Netflix. Same kind of series. No Lesbianism so your premise is complete BS.
Alexander wasnt gay.Alexander had with him in his campaign his Athenian courtesan , Thais . After his death Thays maried Ptolemy who was the ancestor of Cleopatra.Also in Ancient Greece the Gods such Zeus and Appolo had experiences with men this did not reduse their masculinity it was simply sex.
Wasnt Ovid's version of the myths that made Gods evil and gay?
Alexander the great historical inaccuracy
The great historical inaccuracy 😂
Blshts.
There is no gay to fight like badass Alexander did
Any historian with basic knowledge in ancient Greek language knows that the ancient original Greek word for gay (as it is described today) is :
Kinaidos. (So called historian at the beginning of the 1st episode said that there was no word for gays. WRONG....)
There was this word (KINAIDOS) which is not used by any ancient historian to describe Alexander
You explained better than a Greek historian. Salute
Kindaios wasn't meaning 'gay', but effeminate passive male partner. Alexander as King and adult was suppose to take active role, so he would be never insulted as 'effeminate' - because he was quite oppsite example of virility. Alexander hadboy named Bagoas as his lover - Bagoas was enunuch and he was younger. Alexander was active there, not passive.
Here is quatation from Oxford Classical Dictionary: 'Men who take pleasure in being penetrated are regularly the objects of teasing, insult, or abuse. Terms for such men include Gk. katapugōn and euruprōktos and Lat. pathicus, all of whose etymologies point to the penetrated role in anal intercourse. An especially common insult is kinaidos/cinaedus. Of unknown etymology (though one ancient explanation was that it derived from Gk. kinein ta aidoia, “stimulating the private parts”), the noun’s primary referent is an Asian dancer given to suggestive movements of the hips and buttocks. To describe a man as a kinaidos/cinaedus is to portray him as effeminate and sensual, with the strong implication that he takes pleasure in being penetrated, although that is not the only sexual role he might be imagined to enjoy'
@@issavisisland9870 He didn't explain, anything - he LIED. That word he is talking about was apllied to feminine men. Alexander was masculine warrior - none would apply this word to him. Alexander is well recorded to have interest in men.
@@PendragonsxSkywalkers True gay ?
Also - correction - Alexander had TWO legitimate children, both by Roxana. Their first child was born and died during their campaign in India in 326 BC, as recorded in Metz Epitome . Then, Alexander the Younger was born in 323 BC.
Thanks for that correction, from what I read mainly his son Alexander the 4th is discussed
All of these you are saying are speculations! Not scientifically proven
Many scholars question whether Alexander had two sons and that he was actually the father of Heracles. Because Alexander never formally acknowledged this child. Because you read it in some website it doesn't mean that it is true.
@@AllThatMattersByDrTK What is speculation??? Metz Epitome states that Roxana had her first child in India and this child did not survive. You need birth certificate of the baby to acknowledge historical record?
@@AllThatMattersByDrTK I was talking about two children of Roxana. I never mentioned Heracles. Alexander had TWO LEGITIMATE children. Heracles was bastard, I wasn't talking about him.
Alexander the FABULOUS! 😙
Netflix is becoming a joke , turning Alexander into a weak gay character , netflix needs to get canceled for falsifyng history
They didn't turned Alexander into gay, as historical Alexander is recorde to have affairs with men. And I don't get when you saw him "weak" in show. He is quite brutal.
Alexander the Great had affairs with men. cope.
He was bisexual as far as history goes soo....
Apollo has 99 problems but his sexuality isn't one of them-Rick Riordan
One of the guys on the documentary drama straight up lied. He said that the ancient breaks didn't have a word for homosexual. They actually had a word for a feminine homosexual. Alexander's parent s were worried that Alexander was one. He supposedly had a relationship with a Persian eunuch. Will never know for sure. But it does appear Alexander's sexuality was at least fluid.
The word for a male homosexual was ''κίναιδος'', he who provoke the public shame, meaning the man with a passive role and womanlike behavior. As in modern Greece, where I live, everything was a matter of appearances. If you had a manly look, a manly behavior and was into manly things, everything was ok. Even if occasionally you were fucking something else beside of women.
Not just Netflix, even the fanfictions written on Alexander are mostly about his "love affair" Hephaestion, as if there was nothing else about Alexander worth mentioning! Why are these people so obsessed with Alexander & Hephaestion being lovers?? This is honestly so annoying! There are so many fascinating aspects of Alexander's life. It's for these that he's still celebrated after 2 millennia, not for being gay! Why ain't these aspects highlighted??
I bet it would not confound you when they portray Henry VIII and his wives or the relationship between Napoleon and Josephine. I agree with you that his love and sexual relationships aren’t the most relevant but for a world and a time where there are still people executed because of they love; when you have a state like Florida ruled by an homophobe; when you have people ostracized only because of who they love I find rather important to portray same sex love in popular culture and in entertainment to for once and for all normalize something that always existed and as this youtuber up in his pedestal says it still shocks people (although those that feel like that doesn’t deserve any consideration from me).
@@TheLonetit's not relevant because it's un-proven fan fiction ffs , what are you waffling about? 😂🤡 just netflix re-writting history for their own weird fan fiction 😂 not even a documentary , soooooo many inaccuracies
Because the fleeting mention here of Alexander’s relationship sends those with deep seated sexual insecurities into a rage.
At no point did the programme state that Alexander was gay? It touched so briefly on his relationship.
@@sonmarsha69 lol unproven? 😂😂😂😂 What is proven is the panic guys like you have when they find out that virility has nothing to do with one goes to bed. Get a grip. Grow up, get an education because it has nothing to do with fanzine but with the truth no matter how that truth can hurt macho men like you.
@@djb5645 I totally agree with you. They shout that it’s fiction because for them being true hurts their own virility, their vision of the world. Alexander’s same sex relations are well documented as well Julius Caesar’s and even the Portuguese prince, Infante D. Henrique. There are people that think that such a thing tarnish Alexander’s character. It’s quite pathetic to deny what is an historical fact.
As a Greek, i find it very racist tbh. Such an old troupe
What is raci*t??? Vidoe is about his orientation. His orientation has nothing to do with his race.
@@changthao4875 I think it depends how you look at "Greekness". There was no such country as "Greece" in ancient times. But there was Hellenic culture on area of modern day Greece. Alexander and other Macedonians embraced Hellenic culture and if "Hellenic=Greek", then it means Alexander was culturally Greek.
@@changthao4875 Yes, he was.
@@changthao4875 Wasn't he? tell us what he was then
@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 the idea of Greeks being homosexuals is a racist myth. It is simply not true.
There is NO hostoric source proving this. Absolutely NONE. He was offered "kids' by the Persians, to please him, but he actually punished those who did this.
I don’t really care if he was gay, but my grandma told me “No matter what tell you in school, Alexander was black”
So he should be black.
lol great reference there from Cleopatra 😂
"yo brutha , My black grandma told-ed me Cleopatra wasa blackk ..."
If he wasn’t gay where are his 50+ kids?
Who has 50+ kids lol? Maybe only a few people in history
@@HistoryLeaks Genghis Khan? Yeah they say 10 but those are official. 1 in 5 people have his DNA in his country today. Thats a ton of loads. Alexander had 1 due to pressure to have and Heir. He was most definitely a gay man.
How can anyone be surprised? Look at how they screwed up their series on Cleopatra. Cleopatra was not Black. She was Ptolomey and of Greek ancestry and DNA.
Greeks should sued them, but they look only their selfs. This show is an atrocity and inaccuracy.
Yeah just like Egypt made a lawsuits against Netflix for the whole Cleopatra thing, but I’m not sure if anything ever came out of that
Maybe they should (there are many inaccuracies), but not for this arc - as Alexander is recorded to have relationships with men.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518he isn’t actually…
@@elenin7917 Yes, he is. Why your kind poeple never do any research?? 1) It is said Alexander kissed Bagoas, after Bagoas captivated him with dance. Bagoas was a MAN. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite, Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander. (Now, of course that doesn't proove he shared bed with Bagoas, but it shows he was willing to kiss other man.)
2) Another quote is from The History of Alexander the Great, book 7, by Quintus Curtius Rufus: "Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate". This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too.
"There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes".
„For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity.
3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers.
That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 look, all these quotes have been written by plutarch and other roman storytellers 100 of years after he passed… how are these sources reliable? is there one that was written in the same era?
It seems to me that it requires a greater intellectual effort to deny that the relationship of Alexander and Hephaestion was one of lovers than to affirm it. This is not a gossipy inconsequential matter. Hephaestion was one of Alexander’s greatest influences not only personal , but military and political. When they say that there is no evidence to support the nature of the relationship, I wonder what kind of evidence they would require; a sex tape? Something missing here is that there seems to be very little discussion about his own father’s sexuality which would greatly help to put most of this in context : Philip who evidently had relationships with several women also, evidently, had at least two male lovers. What is curious is that in none of the historical accounts this is shown as been out of the norm or reprovable in any way. If this was normal for Philip, why do we have to spend that much energy denying that it was feasible that Alexander had a lover when so much of what has been chronicled strongly suggests he did?
That’s a fair claim, but Isn’t it only a theory/rumour that Phillip had male lovers as well?
Who cares, remember the man for his accomplishments Not his sleeping habits, nitwits, and identity politics people focusing on that garbage, it’s his accomplishments that tells you who he was
Hell yeah brother 🤙🏼💯🫡
To be honest is bothering me seeing someone immediately jumping to criticism for 1 adaptation of sooooooo damnnnnn many in this world about Alexander, that is focusing on his sexuale life in the first episode and a bit on the last a bit, saying "that there are so many other aspects of his life that where amazing blah blah blah" yes we know, we already saw all of them, and now that the sexual aspect (bisexual one, if it was str8 you would've not make this video) is shown "netflix dose not have proof, is not accurate, or whatever else. We don't know 100% anything, and we will most likely never know unless a time machine is invented.
In my opinion, if someone is so hurt by someone else dying, not family included, that means it has to be love, no? For me, that's enough proof. Especially in a time when so many others were dying like files, and it seemed it was not that important to him.
Thanks for your comment and sharing your point of view, I really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
Are there that many adaptations of Alexander the great? I mean there might be but there was only one major other one which was the film (which wasn't the best but I liked the battle scenes) I think from 2004, and there he is depicted as gay as well. What other adaptations are there that are famous?
I think there are a lot of things about Alexander that people do not know, which are kinda cool. Like for example he is said to have known the names of 10,000 of his men, which is quite an amazing leadership quality, you wouldn't see even with the best CEO's of todays world. I personally would be more interested in things like that give you more of a sense of his character rather than something so superficial, which is not proven, only a theory, trying to grab the audiences attention.
If the explanation is enough for you then that's fine, I see no problem there my friend,
For me, I''m only saying f it was 100% proven and agreed upon fact, I would have no problem with Alexander the great being gay, it would be very interesting actually. But it is not completely agreed upon, its only a theory or one explanation related to the stories of how he cared for his buddy Hephaestion. That is my opinion here and the message I'm trying to get across.
I'm surprised they didnt made him black.
Because at least he had sex with men
Can you tell me what equipment you use for recording and making videos, please ?
Absolutely, I currently use a Canon camera for filming and a Shure mic for audio. But nowadays you don’t need that iPhones can film in 4k which is pretty good
Of course he was gay. Nothing to do with the likes of Netflix. It's common knowledge he was.
erastis is the teacher and eromenos is the student desire for knowledge, the modern greek translation has a different meaning after 2k years which translates simply in english to ''lover'' but why describe smth with 2 words that has the so called same meaning today when they were 2 separate words? if you do the correct translations these words just make sence in every altered historical figures like band of thebes, achiles patroclus, spartans warriors. It is not a misunderstanding like some claim it is simply bad translation and interpretation of ancient greek language that is lost and still examined to this day with all its meanings. Smth last in ancient greece existed 20 descriptions (words) to desribe homo/gay actions or epithets. Not once was used in the instances i said.
Netflix try not to make a historically innacruate show to support their own agenda challenge (impossible)
Why does it sound like you're recording your audio in the backrooms?
Unwatchable.
Apologies for the sound quality. Since this video I have improved my recording and audio. Thanks for the feedback 💯💯🙏🙏
@@HistoryLeaks Dang, your reply was nice, now I feel like a prick.
@@killwind Lol no worries bro I take it on and it is a valid point, I appreciate it - hope you have a good weekend 🫡❤❤
Most men especially soldiers were bisexual. It was normal
I’m not sure, from what I understand, the attitude towards it differed a lot from city state to city state.
it is the same nonsense as black Cleopatra.
Those historians have no clue about what they are talking about and are providing no evidence.
It's Netflix version of Ancient Aliens.
There are many inaccuracies and plain out incorrect statements. Especially the "prove" was Sparta. But at the time Sparta was also an "ungreece" nation that was mocked by Greeks for the gay relationships in the spartan army.
Besides, no one can say if the Spartan gay relationships had anything to do with what gay is today.
The entire high level romance story for a Macedonian King is completely unprofessional without bringing up evidence. The only thing that seems to have accuracy is that Alexander and his later wife Roxana grew into each other. But that wasn't even part of the show. So no matter what. Describing him as gay is already imprecise and wrong.
And what also went completely under the rug was that Macedonia was not part of Greece. At least when asking the Greek.
It's another sad and expensive show with "alien guy" type of scientists and history telling of make believe that is unfounded in historical evidence.
If at least would evidence been shown and not just bluntly ignored in front of the camera.
None in the show describe him as gay - they even highlight (just like you) that it would be inaccurate. It is NOT the same thing like with Cleopatra. We have images of Cleopatra. We know she didn't look like Adele James.
In Alexander's case we DO have records that portray him as attracted to men.
1) It is said Alexander kissed Bagoas, after Bagoas captivated him with dance. Bagoas was a MAN. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite, Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander. (Now, of course that doesn't proove he shared bed with Bagoas, but it shows he was willing to kiss other man.)
2) Another quote is from The History of Alexander the Great, book 7, by Quintus Curtius Rufus: "Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate". This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too.
"There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes".
„For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity.
3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers.
That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
😂 I stopped watching after 8 mins. I had enough. Just when you thought Netflix couldn't stay away from the woke agenda...
@@sarabennett6295 Netflix absolutely does have agenda, but that was not one of this instances. Alexander IS recordeD to having male lover (Bagoas), and Hephaistion was very likely his lover too.
the spartan gay relationships are another scam with no substantial evidence
@@Mardanzo really? And you sustain your allegation on what? Wishful thinking so that your macho feelings don’t get hurt… the internet has its advantages but also allows for ignorant, hateful and stupid people like you to see the light of day out of their cave.
So there was nothing about him crying over a woman who died, like his wife or something. Does that not say something to yall😂😂
Well he was mourning the death of his friend, who he went to war and on campaign with, they faced many hardships together, near death experiences, and that creates a bond that only people who actually experience war might understand
@@HistoryLeaks and when one of his many wives died? Did he cry like that no? Y was that😭
Okay people let's stop this post Christian moral discussion about homosexuality it is a fact that many military units in the Greek countries countries not only had male lovers as a norm but often preferred it. The Spartans and also the Immortals of Thieves are just two of the military units that come to mind they didn't consider themselves gay most soldiers would marry before they left for battle in case they died so it was common for soldiers to have wives back home butt on campaign have a male lover male companions that they occasionally had sex with camp followers or prostitutes we're quite rare because of the speed in which they marched and also it could be very dangerous being in an encampment if the enemy was close by in case the camp got sacked some cultures believed it made better Warriors to have your lover next to you but remember condemnation homosexuality was enforced when Christianity took over most of the countries and the cultures back in ancient Greece and Rome had no problem with bisexuality and technically they were bisexual unfortunately the original records we're probably destroyed and when they were Rewritten homosexuality was written out just as many other facts for written out of History just to conform to a different moral code personally it doesn't matter it certainly doesn't take away from any of his accomplishments if he was bisexual. And many of the military units that had male lovers fighting in Paris fighting as pairs are still known as some of the best fighting forces today Darius not only had a large Harem of women buddy had many eunuch concubines this too has been written out of History in order to conform to our modern-day prejudicial views ancient Greek had separate words for different kinds of love mother child love husband wife love man to man love man to child love it wasn't a problem we're only making it a problem because of the prejudicial way we we're talk to view homosexuality for bisexuality
I watched the show and I gotta praise Netflix, they really tried to fight their urge to 'woken' everything 😂
lol yeah it wasn’t as bad as usual but there were a few things, like Phillip not having a scarred one eye was quite a big fumble on their part lol just takes one google image search 😂
I tbh was looking for the part where he fights the Indian king Porus. But it didn’t happen
Maybe it is time that we all woke up to the truth.
how exactly? by making him gay?
@@thiseaslostinlabyrinth5471 exactly, I do not know. But people are curious about everybody else's sex life. That goes with life. Unless you're completely asexual or celibate then you will never know the peace that comes with it
So people are always going to be nosey about what's going on behind their neighbours closed curtains. They cannot help themselves. They have just got to know. It's what gets their juices flowing.
Hence, the success rate of " Mills and boom" formula romance. And that's fairly innocuous stuff.
As far as history goes, it's not much better. We remember Macbeth and his wife for their crimes. Richard the third, for his as well....and all the other worse tyrants to follow.
We don't remember the good guys.
When you are the world governor you fuck all what moves😂
Facts 🤣
You're not treating the topic as ambiguous. You state that there is no real evidence of Alexander's "gaiety"; therefore, he most likely was not so inclined. Yet Arrian called Hephaistion Alexander's inamorata, we have to concede that "it's complicated".
The whole take on pederasty is not true. It was not supposed to be gay at all. But things happen, and it's the base word for pedophile if you want to know how a majority of Greeks felt about that.
I tried to provide a balanced view, but I also believe that it wasn't intended for that as well. Although it may have occurred at times. However, it's not the only institution in history that has had those kind of issues...look at the catholic church ( I am sure there are other examples as well) maybe it's one of the many examples where power/authority can be abused?
Evidence?
For same sex relationship 😅
There are records of him being attracted/in relationships with men.
None actually...
@@thiseaslostinlabyrinth5471 We have many records.
1) It is said Alexander kissed Bagoas, after Bagoas captivated him with dance. Bagoas was a MAN. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite, Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander.
2) Another quote is from The History of Alexander the Great, book 7, by Quintus Curtius Rufus: "Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate". This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too.
"There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes".
„For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity.
3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers.
That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Kisses and 'implications". Gay peoples favourite game is to involve everyone in their world.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Persians offered boys to Alexander to please him and he punished them for doing so. It is common for westerners to misunderstand Greeks. Greeks TOLERATED different people/behaviour/beliefs/ideas/etc. This doesn't mean that they were all gays.
I mean do they really have to be historically accurate for making a series? Because i thought they would be free to change the plot or make possible assumptions and exaggerate them. I didn't know there was a limit in film making. Like do you really think Persians looked like the way movie 300 showed them? I'm sure a Persian king would not go to war in his underwear lol. Also most evidence shows Persians had facial hair but he was bald and without facial hair.
Fair point but the Netflix series claims to be a documentary. While 300 makes no such claim, it doesn’t claim to be historically accurate, on the contrary I’m pretty sure it’s based on a comic book.
@@HistoryLeaks oh ok
Alexander the Freak was pansexual. He probably had a relationship with his horse as well.
I think the "was he gay" argument misses the point. If Alexander was bisexual or whatever could have been said and discussed and no one would have a problem with it. It was HOW it was discussed that was the problem. They went to it literally in five minutes of the program like that was the most important thing. They also did not need some long tongue kissing scene in a lake like it was a gay hallmark movie. I, like most regular people, do not want to see that and I assumed the rest of it would be all about being gay. Who wants to see that?
That is what the problem is. I have no desire to get into some argument about if he was gay since we do not know since it was 2300 years ago. Netflix clearly wanted this to be all about him being gay, and that is not why people want to watch a documentary about Alexander when there were literally about 500 more important things to show about him. The show is far left drivel once again reducing everything to sex and identity politics of 2024.
"They also did not need some long tongue kissing scene in a lake like it was a gay hallmark movie. I, like most regular people, do not want to see that and I assumed the rest of it would be all about being gay. Who wants to see that?" - Gay people, for example - me for example. Stop using this argument, it's ridiculous! When I watched Spartacus tv show I had no pleasure watching female nudity, but I simply winded the scenes. Problems solved! Don't want watch - wind. Also - I know that many straight women actually DO like watch gay scenes. I don't know if you are man who is hetero, but if you are - stop assume that you are only audience of movies about ancient warriors. Gay and bi people also watch. And straight women who like watch gay scenes.
As a gay man I watched primarily, because I wanted dto know if they FINALLY mentioned his affairs with men (as they did omitted this completely documentary from 2014; and as many documentaries about gay/bi rulers unfortunately still do. And this time I was very pleasantly surprised. And I was shocked to see how people are surprised on Alexander probably being bi. Yes, we have 2024, so you should understand how much it is important to tell stories that was thwarted in past because of societal biases. Yet you have issue that gay people got stories of same gender relationships finally told when they had NEVER before got this chance! Instead of being happy that other people got justice, you got upset because scenes do not fit in your esthetic taste! Well, maybe then you shouldn't in first place watch movie about man known from relationships with both men and women. 🤷🏻♂
"They went to it literally in five minutes of the program like that was the most important thing." - But it was one of most important thing in his life! Hephaistion was THE most important person in his life. You are just homoph&c here. You would have no problem if they show him with Roxana or some fictional woman in those first 8 munites. You woulnd't be here writing "I had to watch him kssing his wife/girlfriend and there is 500 more important things for him". Alexander is recorded to have male lover named Bagoas. Wheter Hephaistion was he lover or not (and if he was - how long exactly) is suject of debate, but he certainly was person Alexander loved the most. After Hephaistion passed away, it broke Alexander's spirit - he never recovered after this.
"Netflix clearly wanted this to be all about him being gay" - One of most absurd lies I ever heard. Episode 1 is the only episode when they actaully kiss. How series is about him "being gay", if rest of it is actually about him doing those 500 important things you wanted see 🤦🏻♂ You are simply homoph&e who isn't fair.
Yes, being attracted to men isn't the most important thing about Alexander. But it is one of the most important things. If they show him with his wife - you wouldn't be here writing this. So check your biases, instead of looking issue where there is no issue.
He never hit on me!
Alexander the great not gay
You are right. He likely was bi though.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518he was not bi either
cope
@@MultiRyan009 Yes, he most likely was. He is recorded to having male lovers. Read my other comments under video.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 The problem is what your saying is 100% speculation based on pseudo wishful thinking. "Recorded to have male lovers" you mean the Greek platonic term they used for a strong friendship that was not sexual or romantic in anyway.
I was like with my father and he just wanna talked with me and he picke the remote cherching for a show or a serie he saw the alexander we watch like first minutes until the fucking gay shit begins
great vid
Thank you my friend 💯🤙🏼
He was not gay. He stopped in Persia because of tbe beautiful women. He married the daughter of the Persian king. He found a wife for each of his men there.
Maybe he had a thing for brunettes? and what a great wing man there getting wives for his boys 🫡
Thanks for your comment I hope you have a great week 💯🙏
Marriages were political and him having wives doesn't mean he couldn't be attracted to both men and women. There are records of him having relationships with men. Also - most of his men divorced their Persian wives as soon as he passed away (Seleucos was notable exeption; he stayed with his Sogdian wife, Apama).
It is an established FACT that "homosexual" activities and pederasty was established in ancient Greek, Roman, Theban and Spartan cultures.
Portraying the truth isn't "woke" ffs
He was bisexual
Yes i'm sure every married women to a gay guy would say the same thing.
I think they did right thing by showing theory about them as lovers, however I think they should explain what are clues that led us to believe in this.
Yeah that’s a fair point, thank you for sharing my friend 🙏💯
Wee it was considered normal to have a male lover, and every man will do it if allowed to do so by societal norms. History is full of it.
they didn't show theory. They stated facts with a fat gay guys wishful thinking was evidence enough...if you want to call that evidence.
At the end there never was evidence except the evidence for ice cold historians who can't understand any relationship between human beings that is not possible sexual. Maybe a problem born out of the fact that more than rarely historians are not Indiana Jones, they are usually nerds and geeks.
It is only the saying that some of his companions believed that they were lovers as Alexander heavily grieved over the death of Hephaistos. But others just said it's because they were close friends. And for a fact they were life long friends that nearly shared every day of their lives. That is way more than even siblings do nowadays. If I want o compare that relationship to anything it's twins. And there it is unquestioned that the death of one means a momentan grieve for the other.
So in short: It's fan fiction and make believe.
The only scientific thing that could be said is that there is a possibility that they had experiences maybe of homosexuality but more likely of orgies with women. But those things are not really things that was noted down by writers or even less by those who claimed their thrones of their Kingdoms on the close relationship to Alexander.
@@stemill1569 Selima was saying that Hephaistion was "PERHAPS his gretaest love", which means she left room for doubt. "Fat guy" was talking about homo***ty in general. As for scenes of them as lovers - it was dramatized sequention
While relationship between Alexander and Heph is ambigous, Bagoas is named as bedmate of Alexander by Quintus Curtius Rufus and Plutarch and Athenaeus mention their public kiss.
I think "showing the theory" would be subtly hinting at it without explicitly showing anything. When you explicitly show it, you're revealing it on par with brute facts, and thereby overstate the theory.
365, those are rookie numbers.
Haha 😂 respect 🫡
While the nature of his relationship with Hephaistion is speculative, I would highlight we have record of Alexander kissing man or even sharing bed with them.
1) It is said Alexander had affair with man called Bagoas. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite [lover/eromenos], Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander.
„And the Celtæ, too, although they have the most beautiful women of all the barbarians, still make great favourites of boys . . . . . And the Persians, according to the statement of Herodotus, learnt from the Greeks to adopt this fashion.
Alexander the king was also very much in the habit of giving in to this fashion. Accordingly, Dicæarchus, in his treatise on the Sacrifice at Troy, says that he [Alexander]was so much under the influence of Bagoas the eunuch, that he embraced him in the sight of the whole theatre; and that when the whole theatre shouted in approval of the action, he repeated it”.
Athenaeus, The Deipnosophists (book 13)
2) Another quote is from The History of Alexander the Great, book 7, by Quintus Curtius Rufus: "Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate". This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too.
"There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes".
„For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity.
3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers.
That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
That doesn't prove much, either. Straight actors may kiss their own gender if the script demands it, but this is acting! Speaking about Alexander, he also sometimes acted as a living god, but we know for certain he wasn't one. And we can't even be sure if he believed himself to be, or adopted a certain persona for PR reasons! If we chose to stick to the definition of gayness which is to be attracted by persons of the same gender, and add the whole harem theory plus 4/5 wifes, it would seem that Alexander was rather attracted to women! Again, the only way to know is to ask the man himself... but for apparent reasons we cannot. Everything else is speculative.
@@UGTLDG (Did you read until end...? Rufus claims it was more than kiss with Bagoas) I agree, however my point is that claims about about him liking men are still based on partial evidence ancient records. It is not invention of Netflix or other modern movement.
Also - marriages were POLITICAL. Only two legitimate children were born from them - and both by the same woman (Roxana). There are conflicting sources about him and women, but I don't really see an issue here. People can be attracted to both genders, so him having (political) marriages doesn't preclude affair with man. To me it seems more suggest that Alexander avoided women than was actively sleeping with them. There was even anectode he as young man didn't want to sleep with women, even when his own mother bring him one.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 I meant kiss just as an example, adult actors do much more, but it's still acting. And rape was also a war crime as old as war itself, again without a general indication of attraction. As the HL said, it was more of a domination/subjugation scheme than a sexual fetich. This is also one of the reasons why sexual harassment is a big NO in credible companies. I admit that marriages, or even a whole harem don't say the whole story, either. It's all debatable, more so if the subjects in question are kings of old, actors by definition. But imho this should be the opening statement of any historian...
@@UGTLDG " it was more of a domination/subjugation scheme" - True, but I cannot imagine that someone would assaulted person to whom he isn't attracted in first place. I wasn't saying about harrasment anyway.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 Sadly they would. No gender or age or bodytype was safe. Rape, comes out of hatred, rather than attraction. Details, testimonies, expert opinions, laws can all be found online, I don't want to linger on the subject. I used this extreme example to demonstrate that sometimes people act differently that what they are, or want. If we want to ascertain someone's inclinations, an interview is crucial. Without that, we may never know.
Goddamn it Alexander wasn't gay!
Because you say so 😂
Ok snowflake.
He was almost certainly bi.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 no evidence of that in ancient history whatsoever
@@jackiec.barnes9567 I think then you never read any book about ancient history. There are PLENTY of evidence. Here:
1) It is said Alexander kissed Bagoas, after Bagoas captivated him with dance. Bagoas was a MAN. "We are told, too, that he was once viewing some contests in singing and dancing, being well heated with wine, and that his favourite, Bagoas, won the prize for song and dance, and then, all in his festal array, passed through the theatre and took his seat by Alexander's side; at sight of which the Macedonians clapped their hands and loudly bade the king kiss the victor, until at last he threw his arms about him and kissed him tenderly", Plutarch, Life of Alexander. (Now, of course that doesn't proove he shared bed with Bagoas, but it shows he was willing to kiss other man.)
2) And here from Quintus Curtius Rufus, THE HISTORIES OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT:
„Euxenippos was still very young and a favourite of the king because of his youthful beauty, but although in handsome appearance he was equal to Hephaestion, he was not his match in a charm which was indeed not manly”. This implies Euxenippus - MAN - was attractive to King because of his look and implies King was attracted to him, and possibly to Hephaistion too.
"There Nabarzanes, having received a safe conduct, met him [Alexander], bringing great gifts. Among these was Bagoas, a eunuch of remarkable beauty, and in the very flower of boyhood, who had been loved [assuerat: literally accustomed or initmate] by Darius and was afterwards to be loved [accustomed/intimate] by Alexander; and it was especially because of the boy's entreaties that he was led to pardon Nabarzanes".
„For when Orsines had honoured all the friends of the king with gifts beyond their highest hopes, to Bagoas, a eunuch who had won the regard of Alexander through YIELDING HIS BODY, he paid no honour, and on being admonished by some that Bagoas was dear to Alexander, replied that he was honouring the friends of the king, not his harlots, and that it was not the custom of the Persians to mate with males who made females of themselves by prostitution. ” - Rufus clearly says Bagoas was lover of Alexander. Yes, we don't know how much true is in this, but it shows Alexander was viewed as attracted to man already in antiquity.
3) Moreover, Alexander and Hephaistion were comparing themselves to Achilles and Patroclus - who were depicted in by some classical Greeks and Romans as actual lovers.
That combined strongly suggests ancient authors believed Alexander was attracted to men - and attracted to Hephaistion. That doesn't preclude Alexander from having relationships with women. He most likely was bi.
.... Yes, He was ... So was Achilles, although all the ladies who jes' LOVES Brad Pitt HATES to hear it ! ...
It is more likely he was bi 😉 (And Brad Pitt played Achilles 😅)
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 ... Gay or Bi is a slim difference to a straight, but okay. In the meantime, I'd already stated that Brad Pitt played Achilles, so I'm not grasping the purpose of the bracketed portion of your comment ...😶
@@bobbart4198 I am sorry, I read too quickly 🙏🏻🙈🙈
But as for Achilles - it is different. Achilles was mythical figure, so there is no correct or wrong with him. There are myths that show him with women and those who show him with men.
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518 ... It's all good, Buddy ... Cheers ! ...😃
It's also very important to know that while Alexander married several times for political reasons and fathered children, these actions were typical of kings in antiquity who needed to secure alliances and produce heirs. These marriages do not necessarily negate the possibility of his having had homosexual relationships, as such political marriages were often separate from personal sexual preferences.
L take he had TWO kids with Roxana
So let me get this…if an historian 200 years after his death says that we was a straight dog that did women all year long then it’s true, but if historians FROM his life time that got their records by asking his companions say that he was so in love with Hephaestion that they went together to the Achilles and Patroclus shrine to imitate what they did, and than when Hephaestion died he was so destroyed that he like Achilles cut his hair with his own sword while still with the dead body that’s a “we don’t know how much they’re exaggerating” of course cause “He f*k every woman in Persia at lest ones” it’s more believable that “he loved that dude over there so much that after he died, he demanded that the dude became a God” (he didn’t he just became a divine hero)…that’s a true agenda over there “let’s believe this bat 💩 crazy theory cause me macho and I don’t like strong dudes not being machos like me”
Who was the historian from his life time which said he was in love with Hephaestion? and to be clear my position is not that I blindly believe Livy's account, my position is that there are also accounts showing he was really into women which are totally ignored. It's conflicting accounts and neither of us know for sure...
Alexandros child hood hero was Achilles indeed he carried the Iliad with him all times, secondly no where in historical records is Alexandros depicted anything close to homo sexual but on the contrary he was furious when satrapies Persian commander's offered him beautiful boys. The biggest misrepresentation derives from the word (eromenos) that was described by historian Plutarch for hephaestions and the big translating mistake came actually from french and english translators. So eromenos in modern greek means lover, in ancient greek eromenos has the meaning of beloved or close to the heart and this particular word was used to describe love to arts love to studies and many more things in hephaestions meaning it means close to heart as a childhood friend
nowhere is mentioned that he was inlove with men. So if my best friend that we grew up together and having him as a brother dies, wouldn't i be devastated? does that mean that i was inlove with him? what a load of crap from today's people.
100% agree @@mpampismaniatis7634
what historians asked his companions? Literally a bodyguard of his ( a childhood friend marsyas) when received a letter of a persian commander who was offering 2 young boys to alexander was afraid to tell him and when he did in front of the rest bodyguards Alexandros got furious and sent a letter back to the persian : You moron what do you know about my preferences to offer me such kind of pleasures? Pray to gods I won't cross you or else. This is an eyewitness and a close person to alexander testify recorded evidence
Netflix Agenda
In this case they were accurate.
I would also mention that worth mentioning there was Sacred Band of Thebes, made of male adult lovers, that was very much admired by King Philip, Alexander teh Great;s father, who is said to weep after he defeated them and said outloud that he cursed those who shame Sacred Band lovers. Philip himself had male lovers.
Yeah that’s another example but a lot of what we know about the sacred band was written by the Athenians, who were enemies of the Corinthians at certain times, and it’s possible it wasn’t entirely true, we don’t know for sure …
@@HistoryLeaks Well, we never know anything for sure. But there are things that were more likely and less likely, and there is Ockham'z razor. At the very least Thebes was famous from its respect towards male lovers. Corynthian athelete Diocles settled here with his lover Filaos, and they were both buried together. And male lovers in Thebes supposedly were taking oath on alleged tomb of Ioalos (lover/nephew/friend of Heracles).
You are replying as if you were there and saw everything. All these you are mentioning are just speculations. However, you are entitled to your opinion in the social media as everybody else.
@@AllThatMattersByDrTK I didn't saw anything. However, there are speculations that are more likely to be true and speculations less likely. When someone speculates that Cleopatra the Great was Black because we don't know her mother, it is UNLIKELY, as we have actual images of her and she doesn't look Black, no matter who was her mother. In Alexander's case we have some ancient records that imply Alexander's interest in men, so if we gonna believe those records, it is quite LIKELY he had relationships with men. And in case of Sacred Band - Ockham's razor - the simplest explanation is the best. If sources state they were lovers, most likely it was this. (Maybe if we apply bit skepticism, them mayne Band wasn't made entirely by couples, but I suppose male lovers were at least in charge, so that's why it bacem famous of male lovers.)
@@AllThatMattersByDrTK I wasn't, that's true, but there are speculations that are more and less likely. If records say they were male lovers and suggest that Alxander himself had male lovers, then it is likely that was how things were. We will never know what happened in bedroom. But on basis available evidence it seems likely Sacred Band were made of at least partially of male partners and Alexander likely had men as partners too. Yes, it is speculation, but there is base to speculate.
Even he is gay,there is alot of way to start tell his story. Not straight away showing is this pride is very first few minutes into the tale or documentary. It's just cringe. I sometimes watch gay videos, but when i comes to watch a documentary about a great person ever lived,this not the way to begun it.
It is "cringe" because you were taught you should view it as cringe. You wouldn't think twice if they show him with girl. Work on being accepting person.
He was Greek wasn't he.
Spartans were also Greek
@@TMPOUZI true .
The true seekers after the truth..
What difference does it make to our creator what colour we turn out to be.?
Haihhhh